where does the problem lie?

[AgentDaleCooper]

i think this is an important question, in light of the protest thread. who do we really want rid of? the players and their 'performances'? fenlon and his 'tactics'? petrie and his 'managers' and 'business plan'? farmer and his...currently gives us. yes, he saved us, but is his distance/disinterested nature costing us more than we know?]

[KWJ]

I'd say a bit of fans, Petrie, Fenlon & the players.

Fenlon probably has to take the biggest share as that's his job, what happens on the pitch and they are his players. I reckon the fans make Easter Road a nervy place to play but no club is going to take 18,000 along to see such poor football for so much money.

Petrie, well. He's put all these things in place and maybe there is more wrong between boardroom and dugout but ultimately we don't really know. Fenlon has brought us forward since Calderwood but we've had some fair rollickings in that time.

If Fenlon stays, (and I think it's time for him to go now) it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he picks up a few wins, some better football materialises and the fans return with enthusiasm to ER. But it's an almighty turn required and he needs to do it FAST otherwise we may take a lot longer to recover.

A new manager that comes in won't have very long either, whoever it is, because the fans are losing patience. It doesn't matter if Petrie picks the right man or the wrong man, if it isn't working he'll be the accused on a larger scale.

I don't have any issue with STF at all.

[Purehibee_MYB]

If I'm honest, I have no idea.. I voted for Petrie because with the amount of failing managers under his regime he has to take the brunt of blame. In no way can STF be to blame for me; he saved the club and keeps out of the way these days so I'm not sure how he can be blamed. I do think sometimes we as fans are too quick to panic and get on the back of the players, but at the same time, we have had good reason quite a lot of the time. As for Fenlon, I thought it wasn't him but I no longer believe any real progress can be made under him. As for the players, on paper we have a good team, but it hasn't clicked, time will tell I guess.

[cad]

If I'm honest, I have no idea.. I voted for Petrie because with the amount of failing managers under his regime he has to take the brunt of blame. In no way can STF be to blame for me; he saved the club and keeps out of the way these days so I'm not sure how he can be blamed. I do think sometimes we as fans are too quick to panic and get on the back of the players, but at the same time, we have had good reason quite a lot of the time. As for Fenlon, I thought it wasn't him but I no longer believe any real progress can be made under him. As for the players, on paper we have a good team, but it hasn't clicked, time will tell I guess.



STF wishes he had 100 Rod Petrie`s , Rod Petrie does STF bidding ,STF saved Hibs .Rod Petrie knows hee haw about football ,Rod Petrie has picked our last 6 or 7 managers not for 1 second do I believe Scott Lindsay on his todd picked Pat Fenlon it still needed Rods approval, our board know zip about football, we balance the books ,we are run within our budget ,we are self sufficient

We ask other peoples opinion who should be our next manager SAF and a another tipped Pat for stardom I believe before he was appointed ,how do you sort it,have to ask Rod and STF , if the owner thinks Rods the bollocks where do you go ?

[francobaresi]

The problem lies with the manager, he is ultimately responsible for motivation, tactics and bringing in players.... The fact that we have been this bad for arguably 30+ years barring a wee spell in early 2000 is evidence enough for me. If I as a manager of any team (business or sport) had results that were as bad as that, that was performing as bad as that on a regular basis then I'm afraid I'd be looking for employment elsewhere rapido. Mr Fenlon doesn't have a clue and imho neither do many of the players. To lose to a team of wee laddies yesterday should be the final thread in Fenlon's career at Easter Road, it won't be however! And I am aware that Fenlon hasn't been at ER for 30 years, point is about the problem lying with the manager...

Question is, who is going to replace him when we are behind Hearts because it will happen!

[happiehibbie]

I went with Fenlon because of his game Plans

yesterday two changes

Sam Stanton is not a game winner

I feel he should have introduced a change that could have won drew the match

So fenlon for me

[NatureBoy]

There can be no doubting that Fenlon is way, way out his depth so he's the most obvious and easiest problem to fix.

The board of directors have to take there share of blame though. For me they appear aloof and lack the passion and drive to take the club forward on the park. The fans are the life blood of the club and for me they show us very little respect and treat us too much like customers who they want season ticket money from. Look at someone like Dave Whelan who genuinely cares for Wigan, his passion is infectious and spreads right through the club!

[southsider]

Petrie and Fenlon. There are a lot of questions we want answers to. Why did we not buy LG when we had the chance ? Why stick with Fenlon when he just does not have a clue. There is no pace in the team and we sign a forward...omg i have seen milk turn to cheese quicker. I have been going to ER since 1965 and that lot are the worst. A total and utter embarrassment. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If the board were to think about it, they could use the money they will lose with the current set up, to buy a quality striker.

For example, sacking Fenlon + lost revenue at the gate = Leigh Griffiths. The money is going anyway, why not use it positively?

[Saorsa]

Starts right at the top IMO. We have an owner who isnae interested and who thinks the person currently running the club is doing a good job. Petrie may be trying tae run a tight ship and balancing the books, though how much have his failures contributed tae our losses? Hundreds of thousands I'd say tae pay off all these duds. We are failing miserably at doing what the club actually exists for, fitba, because he has nae clue about what makes a good manager, unless being cheap is a top criteria for the job. We may be performing poorly on the park performance wise because of the managers but we are performing poorly as a club because of those running it IMO. If these managers are managing tae the best of their ability and it isnae good enough surely we have tae stop looking there and start looking beyond at the person who keeps puting them there. Half a dozen managers in as many years, however many hundreds of players and yet nothing changes because one thing remains the same. Three consecutive bottom three finishes for a Club with our resources. Is that all that really Tom Farmers idea of somebody doing a good job? But then he too is only interested in the books being balanced.

[Beefster]

Out of interest, does Rodders ever attend the LWT groups or is his 'I like to hear what the plebs are saying' walk through BTG every second week just for show?

[Gustavo Fring]

there should be an all of the above option tbh

the players - dont look interested in playing for fenlon or to some extent the jerzey

fenlon - enough said

petrie - has no interest in the product on the park , has had nothing to say in the wake of malmo or the opening spfl losses

STF - by his own words he is not interested in hibernian or even football - why is he still here

us , the fans - cant really fault the fans , we have been subjected to some shocking performances the last couple of years - you all know the ones i mean , we've turned out in big numbers and backed the team and time and again get shat on from high above

[Sweep]

Think there should be a mixture of the first three option.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I don't think it's as simple as a multiple choice question.

For me its around the pitfalls of Delegation where the club appears to be failing.

But do we really want STF or Rod meddling in football affairs?

Has Rod bluffed his way to position in the SFA/SPFL without knowing anything about football (well it is "Scottish football" I suppose...)

Rod supposedly delegated the managerial selection process to others - the ex-boy band member and Scott Lindsay. Hmmmm. Or did they just devise the process? What I'd like to know is was Mowbray a fluke or did they do something different that time (was Alex Ferguson not consulted?)

So whilst we talk about players being played in the correct positions and utilising their strengths the same should be applied to the board Rods not the best communicator so bring in someone who can fulfil that role. Rods strengths arguably lie in the financial side but things have long been skewed to this side - to the detriment of the team. But unless Rod is unwilling to learn I would keep him for his strengths and balance out his flaws through other folks stepping up from the board. We just haven't found that right balance.

The buck for the team and performance stops manager. Perhaps changing the culture has taken more out of Pat to the detriment of the other side of things (like tactics which appears really odd). But my feeling is this was one toxic defeat too far unless he's a cat his lives have run out and is dead in the water.

Persevere? We certainly have but there's limits. Dunno what the answer is but doubt it is Fenlon regrettably.

[Gustavo Fring]

Rod supposedly delegated the managerial selection process to others - the ex-boy band member and Scott Lindsay. Hmmmm. Or did they just devise the process? What I'd like to know is was Mowbray a fluke or did they do something different that time (was Alex Ferguson not consulted?)

.

im sure mowbray was appointed by ken lewandowski

[Speedway]

im sure mowbray was appointed by ken lewandowski

Nope, Petrie.

[Weir7]

im sure mowbray was appointed by ken lewandowski
Rod is the boss he decided.

Fenlon got interviewed when CC got the job.

What did Rod say when fenlon got the job?

“When I looked into his eyes I knew he was a winner”

[The Leith Dutch]

Now I do think Fenlon should go but I also think that barring some miraculous luck that's not gonna solve the problems we have.

Start at the top - if STF and RP are perceived to be the problem then it's an easy one to solve.

I'm happy with how they run the club in a pure business sense and, given what we've done in this transfer window I'd say it would be tough to criticise the finances afforded the manager.

The problem is they're not football men so the simple answer is employ someone at board level in that role - a Director of Football - and give him sole responsibility for all matters football. There's no need for him to run the entire club.

Then there's the players.

Without denying we have a couple of problem positions, nowhere near enough width or pace and a real lack of creativity in attack it's not a bad squad of players quality wise.

How many of us would do a squad for squad swap with any one other club other than Celtic?

What I would say is that they're massively underperforming.

Have we got an ingrained club culture that leads to players not bothering their ***** because we certainly seem to be able to turn good players into poor and average players?

Is Fenlon so useless and tactically inept that he can't get the players working properly?

Do we as a support get on the team - and individual players - backs so quickly that they lose confidence, start hoofing it?

I reckon there's a bit of all three.

[Bobo]

I think it's habitual, engrained from way back.

I attended my first game at Easter Road 46 years ago, as a kid, I got a lift-over with my sisters and sat on the wall at the bottom of the terracing as Hibs beat Dunfermline 2-0. I can't remember much of the game to be honest but was hooked by my surroundings and the enormity of the stadium, the supporters, the noise, colour and sense of the occasion. Needless to say I've been a Hibby ever since, 30+ years of them as a season ticket holder.

It's been a long and pretty fruitless journey to be honest and without the Turnbull, McLeish and Mowbray eras Hibs, for the size of club we are, have continually underachieved and disappointed more often than not.

Every so often though, from amongst the gloom and tedium, there is a bright light; a player or players who give us hope for better things to come. Hang on to these moments as ultimately all too soon they'll be sold and off to star elsewhere allowing the darkness to descend again, it's happened all my time!

Stein, Cormack and Marinello were the first I remember leaving. Joe Baker was before them and I'm sure older supporters than me can add to the list. It just goes to show the deep rooted mentality custodians of our club have nurtured for so long that even the Famous Five were viewed saleable with the departure of Bobby Johnstone in 1955 to break up the greatest forward line ever!

I guess what I'm trying to say is, today Easter Road may still be standing but it's a soulless place where the sense of occasion and belonging was lost, long ago, for any starry-eyed youngster looking for an idol to inspire them on the pitch. Our stadium has no identity, no name proudly adorns it anymore as it sits anonymously waiting to come to life. Why the malaise, the support is there, we've always been here, it's time the club gave us something to shout about to rekindle the spirit, sense of atmosphere and excitement of turning up at Easter Road.

It's time for our management to instil a bit of ambition pride and self belief back into Hibernian ...... we're still waiting.

[Beefster]

Fenlon got interviewed when CC got the job.

This seems to be a recurring thing. Calderwood was interviewed when Hughes got the job.

[Golden Bear]

It's a pity that only one selection is allowed in the poll. The Manager is the main culprit but certainly not the only one.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I've not read the thread, but, I'm bemused how the fans can possibly be at the top of anyones list of reasons for Hibs being in the state they are in, its absolutely ridiculous.

[Hibercelona]

Fenlon got interviewed when CC got the job.


Calderwood was interviewed when Hughes got the job.

It's as if we're planning ahead for the inevitable failure!

Who got interviewed when Fenlon got the job?

[Hibercelona]

Out of interest. How can we blame the manager more than the people ultimately responsible for his appointment?

There still seems to be a wiff of RP and STF being untouchable.

[The Leith Dutch]

I've not read the thread, but, I'm bemused how the fans can possibly be at the top of anyones list of reasons for Hibs being in the state they are in, its absolutely ridiculous.

Blame is the wrong word maybe but I think the fans possibly cause some problems both for the confidence of the team and individual players and for their ability to play the kind of football we want to see.

We want to see football played on the deck and that sometimes means going back the way and ensuring you keep possesion.

If we're two up (which I'm sure we were once although i may have been dreaming....) it's all "Ole!" but if it's 0-0 against what we deem to be a "diddy team" it's a torrent of abuse and "get the f'ing ball forward".

I'm not for a second suggesting that this is the only reason for the abysmal hoofball we're playing right now but it doesn't help and it won't encourage composure.

And as for player confidence (and with my tin hat firmly on) as Hibs fans we abuse our own players far too much. Colin Nish may have put in some terrible performances for us but does anyone honestly believe that calling him a useless huddy was going to improve his play and, crucially, our chances of taking something from the match?

By all means think a player is cack, rip into him down the pub and hope that he never plays for us again (and there's plenty I think that about) but while he's on the park in a Hibs jersey we shouldn't be abusing him.

And for the record - I think Fenlon has to go, the current team need to have a good look at themselves and if RP and STF are gonna stay they need to let someone else at board level run the football side.

[banarc7062]

With all our problems why do we not have a Director of Football, who knows the game and Hibs history. This would take Petrie out of the firing line and allow him to concentrate on fiancial matters, (his beloved balance sheet). The Director of Football would argue the footballing side at Board level and assist the manager in steering the team towards higher goals. My suggestion would be John Collins.

[The_Todd]

With all our problems why do we not have a Director of Football, who knows the game and Hibs history. This would take Petrie out of the firing line and allow him to concentrate on fiancial matters, (his beloved balance sheet). The Director of Football would argue the footballing side at Board level and assist the manager in steering the team towards higher goals. My suggestion would be John Collins.

I'd rather JC as head coach with someone else as DOF. JCs signings were rank.

[The Leith Dutch]

I'd rather JC as head coach with someone else as DOF. JCs signings were rank.

Wouldn't be a problem unless the DoF is organising the signings.
i'd still have the manager in charge of that personally as it's his neck on the block if the team fails.

For me the DoF would be looking after the footballing direction of the club: defining the club's footballing philosophy, ensuring standards of professionalism were met and setting a level of ambition that all those employed by the club in a football related capacity were comitted to reaching.

The manager should be responsible for choosing signings, selecting the first team, overseeing their training and setting out the tactical approach to each match.

[Stringer]

Out of interest. How can we blame the manager more than the people ultimately responsible for his appointment?

There still seems to be a wiff of RP and STF being untouchable.

RP isn't blameless but the problem lies with tactics and team selection.

The players RP paid for I believe are good enough to get top 4. Pat just doesn't get them motivated nor does he give them clear instruction

[Hibercelona]

[/B]
RP isn't blameless but the problem lies with tactics and team selection.

The players RP paid for I believe are good enough to get top 4. Pat just doesn't get them motivated nor does he give them clear instruction

The problem lies with STF. Because he sticks with a guy who hasn't the faintest clue about football.

As long as STF remains, Rod Petrie will remain. And as long as Rod Petrie remains, we'll continue with managers well out of their depth.

Changing the manager isn't going to solve anything, because it's just going to be another dud replacement to take up another couple of years.

As long as STF owns Hibs, it's a vicious endless cycle.

[Emerald]

I voted Fenlon as I believe he is the most immediate problem we need to resolve. It hurts me to say this though but I feel the real problem is STF. Petrie is STF's man at the club and acting on his say so. Petrie is doing a good job according to STF so meets all the requirements. If Petrie gets the bullet then he will be replaced with someone else who fits the bill and more than likely do the same things (he may be better at employing managers though). I honestly think that STF is only interested in keeping Hibs ticking over and there is no real passion to take us forward as a FOOTBALL club. How we turn that around is anyone's guess but until it happens we will remain a stable middle of the road underperforming team that has been going on for years now. Still, it frightens me to think of not having STF here, so I'm stuck. :dunno:

[skoop]

how about option 6, "or all of the above"?

[Shields Hibee]

Petrie is a finance man, happy with balancing the books and keeping the club self sufficient. STF saved us when we needed him but doubt these days if he's too interested in what happens at ER.

Fenlon for me is out of depth, his tactics are woeful & the players don't seem motivated about playing in the shirt. What's said in the dressing room before KO or down at East Mains, out you go lads & remember keep it tight as a point is better than nothing! That's Fenlon's problem, play not to lose rather than play to entertain the fans and score a few in the process. The players we have ain't that bad, top 5 is achievable with the right man in charge.

I don't think the fans are to blame, we've constantly turned up over the years & bought our season tickets, shirts, merchandise etc only to be let down by those on the park. As my brother pointed out yesterday, we turn out for the big games, Fenlon's teams don't!

[cad]

The problem lies with STF. Because he sticks with a guy who hasn't the faintest clue about football.

As long as STF remains, Rod Petrie will remain. And as long as Rod Petrie remains, we'll continue with managers well out of their depth.

Changing the manager isn't going to solve anything, because it's just going to be another dud replacement to take up another couple of years.

As long as STF owns Hibs, it's a vicious endless cycle.



That's it and before you know it another 20 years have passed you by,