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Spike Mandela
11-08-2013, 07:18 PM
The worst forward line we've had in years or players starved of service?

Collins never got much of a look in today but Vine looked absolutely atrocious. Slow, uninterested, lacking sharpness and totally pathetic effort whilst through on keeper.

lugz
11-08-2013, 07:24 PM
When it comes to Collins it's definitely starved of service, he'll come good when we have a manager who doesn't play so negatively.

Vine - I'm honestly no sure, lucky to stay on the park today and what he did when he was on the park was pretty much nothing. Horrible attempt when slipped down the left side with a chance to shoot.

truehibernian
11-08-2013, 07:24 PM
Vine looked perplexed all game and unsure of where he was meant to be playing. Collins never won any of his battles and Wilson had him in his back pocket until he started to come deeper and link play - which left nobody to hit - sad endictment of the game was the best football, created by Collins, Vine and Craig, ended up with Tom Taiwo on the end of it. Says it all mate.

Both are good players, both will get goals from having a pacy wide player(s) - Hibs have none, will buy none, and will struggle through the season with no pace whatsoever up top. That I'm afraid is fact.

lugz
11-08-2013, 07:27 PM
It just sums Fenlon up that our tactics are to lump it to a guy who clearly stated in his first interview with the club that he is not a target man!!

Argylehibby
11-08-2013, 07:28 PM
With a midfield where every first touch is back the way, the forwards never get a chance. They wont get many until a manager, any manager, buys at least one forward thinking player, willing and able to pass the ball to them rather than lump it forward in the general direction when there is nobody to pass back or sideways to.

Pretty Boy
11-08-2013, 07:29 PM
It just sums Fenlon up that our tactics are to lump it to a guy who clearly stated in his first interview with the club that he is not a target man!!

It's like Williamson and O'Connor all over again.

Hopefully our new Tony Mowbray is just around the corner.

lugz
11-08-2013, 07:36 PM
It's like Williamson and O'Connor all over again.

Hopefully our new Tony Mowbray is just around the corner.

If only!! Can't see the club being adventurous enough to find someone like him.

Can see Fenlon leaving and the merry go round continuing. Managers coming in doing ok for a while then being sacked within 2 years of being at the club.

West hamBERNIAN
11-08-2013, 07:41 PM
i think they'll come good, and i think they'll play well together. if we had one or two player willing to carry the ball forward effectively and pull defenders out of position we'd see a lot more of them. as it stands the service was terrible. don't think i seen a player play a ball to Collins feet until Mcgivern came on. on reflection i think we need another right back unless Forster can play it, and at least one wide player. would like to see more of Stanton.

beensaidbefore
11-08-2013, 07:41 PM
Didn't think i'd see the day when I wished we still had the headless chicken Ivan Sproule. We know how far we have come when players who were slated by the fans for being s***e, Sheils, Rankin, Wotherspoon, could all walk into the team. Sad times.

Nakedmanoncrack
11-08-2013, 07:43 PM
The worst forward line we've had in years or players starved of service?

Collins never got much of a look in today but Vine looked absolutely atrocious. Slow, uninterested, lacking sharpness and totally pathetic effort whilst through on keeper.

My first look at both today, and both offered nothing, they were starved of service but I didn't notice anything to suggest ability.
Vine in particular was awful, and lumbering about with that idiotic beard & tattoos he looks better suited to the circus.

truehibernian
11-08-2013, 07:52 PM
What annoyed me more about Rowan today was the apology handshakes to Ryan Stevenson, twice, as he was getting treated and walking off the pitch. KT, a winner, did the right thing - never batted a bloody eyelid and ignored the soft hearted tit as he walked off. Rowan was almost escorting him off the pitch.

Sorry to say but these little things annoy me - I want 11 Hibs players not giving a tuppeny toss about their opponent other than beating him. This 'friendly shaking hands on the pitch nonsense - during a derby - get that right out of town.

If they are down they stay down and you don't give a **** unless the ref send you off.

eastterrace
11-08-2013, 07:53 PM
thought vine was slow against malmo but gave him benefit of the doubt , but what i seen today he is just pish, that shot on goal was woefull. think collins will come good but he might get cheesed of if this keeps up.

West hamBERNIAN
11-08-2013, 07:53 PM
My first look at both today, and both offered nothing, they were starved of service but I didn't notice anything to suggest ability.
Vine in particular was awful, and lumbering about with that idiotic beard & tattoos he looks better suited to the circus.

It was my first look at them today as well, was in the hossie last week so missed it. thought they looked quite composed when they had ball at feet. collins did shank his shot when a defender got a touch on the ball but didn't snatch at the chance in the first place so showed a cool head in the box for me. they both look quite mobile. who knows. i think they'll be alright. he can dye the beard pink if he scores goals for all i care.

woodythehibee
11-08-2013, 07:57 PM
Collins looked a bit off the pace to start with but came into the match later on. It must be remembered that he probably won't have had much of a pre season and it was his first match with Vine. He will score goals up here with better service

Jack Hackett
11-08-2013, 08:30 PM
Looking at last seasons SPL stats, while Leigh finished 2nd top scorer, there isn't a single Hibs player in the 'Assists' table. Therein lies a serious problem

yeezus.
11-08-2013, 08:48 PM
The last time I was at the PBS we had Sodje and Agogo so things could be worse. I think Collins will get a few but Vine looked slow today, I don't think he'll do much no matter who's in charge.

green.and.white
11-08-2013, 08:53 PM
I actually thought in an attacking sense that Liam Craig gave one of the worst performance I've ever seen from a hibs player. He definitely does not come across as the answer in terms of creativity. He is so slow, why do we have such a phobia of signing players with pace????

IberianHibernian
11-08-2013, 08:58 PM
Poor performance and even worse result but thought Vine and particularly Collins showed enough with very little of the ball to suggest they`ll both be good signings IF given time by fans and management . Of course they won`t score like Griffiths but we`re going to have to play differently anyway . Doyle scored 8 before Christmas playing with LG and would probably have scored 20 in season with a different striking partner and think Collins could do the same .

GavinHarris 10
11-08-2013, 09:37 PM
I feel that it is far too early to judge the new strike partnership after their first game together in a derby with their only service was balls being hoofed up to them. I thought they linked up well together in the second half. Vine's beard does make him look a bit silly though

IberianHibernian
11-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Far too son to wtite strikers or others off . 6 new signings in starting XI plus KT and Robertson who joined only a few months ago . Whoever is in charge , this team will get better over the season .

QMU-1875
11-08-2013, 09:56 PM
I actually thought vine looked alright, both starved of service, we have no creativity what so ever!

Mango Man
11-08-2013, 09:57 PM
I thought Collins was by far our best player, really good first touch, he will be a cracking player for us, Vine, not so sure.

Northernhibee
11-08-2013, 10:06 PM
I thought Collins was by far our best player, really good first touch, he will be a cracking player for us, Vine, not so sure.

Thought Collins was good but Nelson was my MOTM for us, really solid no nonsense stuff.

God Petrie
11-08-2013, 10:08 PM
Thought Collins was good but Nelson was my MOTM for us, really solid no nonsense stuff.

Sounds barry - boys horsing the ball up the pitch...

Northernhibee
11-08-2013, 10:12 PM
Sounds barry - boys horsing the ball up the pitch...

First CB for a while for us who understands the importance of clearing his lines. Wins everything in the air.

SaulGoodman
11-08-2013, 10:16 PM
Sounds barry - boys horsing the ball up the pitch...

He's a defender.

Castle Hibs
11-08-2013, 10:31 PM
I thought Collins looked a lot better than Vine but they both need support from midfield. The space between the midfield and our forwards is frightening. We need two runners from midfiled supporting the front two whether it be though the middle or from out wide.

SouthamptonHibs
11-08-2013, 10:36 PM
Vine is fatter and slower than me, Collins doesn't get any service hard to tell if he will be good. We could go on for several games without scoring. No pace in the team best chance of scoring is a corner or another set play. Hibs are boring and predictable, teams will find it very easy to play against us. One goal = win or draw two goals = 100% win

ehf
11-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Vine is fatter and slower than me, Collins doesn't get any service hard to tell if he will be good. We could go on for several games without scoring. No pace in the team best chance of scoring is a corner or another set play. Hibs are boring and predictable, teams will find it very easy to play against us. One goal = win or draw two goals = 100% win

Both pish. If we'd played Handling and Caldwell, we have won.

Heisenberg
11-08-2013, 10:55 PM
Both pish. If we'd played Handling and Caldwell, we have won.

We really wouldn't have.

AgentDaleCooper
12-08-2013, 02:18 AM
The worst forward line we've had in years or players starved of service?

Collins never got much of a look in today but Vine looked absolutely atrocious. Slow, uninterested, lacking sharpness and totally pathetic effort whilst through on keeper.

say what you like about him - i'd kill for that beard :not worth

The Sea-gull
12-08-2013, 08:03 AM
Don't really know much about either and two games in still don't. A bit early to judge and unless we get a managerial change or the incumbent chnages his style of play then I can't see either making much impact.

Know nothing about Collins but you have got to assume he must be decent for us to part with 200k otherwise our scouting strategy, like most other things about the club, is lacking. He does have to get used to a new league.

Never been convinced by the Vine signing as a goal scorer but was a little more at ease when we signed Collins as felt Vine may be used to play off JC. Vine is certainly not, and by his stats does not ever appear to have been, a no 9.

Pat needs to cut out this 4-5-1 pash as it does not work and is uber negative the way he does it. For me, based on the players we have, we are crying out for a 4-2-3-1 formation as we do not have the natural width (even more so with Harris out) to make 4-5-1 work where as I think 4-2-3-1 would work.

Thomson and OTJ or Taiwo (probably Taiwo based on OTJ's lumbering start to the season) playing in front of the defense - try to start a partnership there.

Then Vine on the right, Craig on the left (but not as isolated on the left touchline as he has been) with Scott Robertson in between them. These three would be expected to support James Collins up front.

SlickShoes
12-08-2013, 08:08 AM
Can't judge either when all they done was chase hopeless long balls direct from the defense that completely bypassed the midfield.

Lewis Stevenson is the worst culprit of this, every time anyone is near him he goes backwards, Liam Craig was infront of him for most of the game yet he must have passed to him only twice every other time it was an inaccurate hoof in the general direction of vine for him to try and chase down.

DanHFC1875
12-08-2013, 08:12 AM
We really wouldn't have.

I don't think Caldwell is some sort of footballing genius, but, he defo deserves a chance and I cannot see why he doesn't get a chance.

Ps. Fenlon, get tae ****!:grr:

Heisenberg
12-08-2013, 08:19 AM
I don't think Caldwell is some sort of footballing genius, but, he defo deserves a chance and I cannot see why he doesn't get a chance.

Ps. Fenlon, get tae ****!:grr:

He does definitely deserve a chance but for some reason isn't getting it. He looked he would be a much better striker than Handling last season. Problem is, he still would've struggled with the role of playing up front yesterday. Fenlons lump it forward and as far away from our goal as possible tactic only worked when we had a top quality striker who could chase down everything and score by himself.

Spike Mandela
12-08-2013, 08:31 AM
In recent years we have had a few duff strikers but always had at least 1 quality striker in the team Griffiths, Riordan, O'Connor or Stokes type of player who could get you something for nothing. Not sure if this applies to any of these two. Vine most certainly is not worthy of the no 9 shirt.

spike220
12-08-2013, 08:32 AM
Don't really know much about either and two games in still don't. A bit early to judge and unless we get a managerial change or the incumbent chnages his style of play then I can't see either making much impact.

Know nothing about Collins but you have got to assume he must be decent for us to part with 200k otherwise our scouting strategy, like most other things about the club, is lacking. He does have to get used to a new league.

Never been convinced by the Vine signing as a goal scorer but was a little more at ease when we signed Collins as felt Vine may be used to play off JC. Vine is certainly not, and by his stats does not ever appear to have been, a no 9.

Pat needs to cut out this 4-5-1 pash as it does not work and is uber negative the way he does it. For me, based on the players we have, we are crying out for a 4-2-3-1 formation as we do not have the natural width (even more so with Harris out) to make 4-5-1 work where as I think 4-2-3-1 would work.

Thomson and OTJ or Taiwo (probably Taiwo based on OTJ's lumbering start to the season) playing in front of the defense - try to start a partnership there.

Then Vine on the right, Craig on the left (but not as isolated on the left touchline as he has been) with Scott Robertson in between them. These three would be expected to support James Collins up front. Aye I was thinking that myself, no matter what he plays it always looks like 4-5-1 in disguise.

RoslinInstHibby
12-08-2013, 08:33 AM
Lewis Stevenson is the worst culprit of this, every time anyone is near him he goes backwards

Spot on, was getting really frustrated at this yesterday, its never a pass forward with him its a lump up to no one or mostly backwards.

The Sea-gull
12-08-2013, 08:42 AM
In recent years we have had a few duff strikers but always had at least 1 quality striker in the team Griffiths, Riordan, O'Connor or Stokes type of player who could get you something for nothing. Not sure if this applies to any of these two. Vine most certainly is not worthy of the no 9 shirt.

I am still hopeful Collins will be a quality striker.

GreenArmyyy!
12-08-2013, 09:17 AM
Thought Collins was good but Nelson was my MOTM for us, really solid no nonsense stuff.

I completely agree, I thought Nelson was immense at the back yesterday. Collins from what I've seen will be very good, he is powerful and holds the ball well, also seems to have a good touch. In my opinion I am not sure that Vine and Collins will be a good partnership as I think they are two of the same player, Collins being the better of the two. Only time will tell but for the kind of strikers we have at the moment we really need a couple of wingers that can whip in a cross.

Just_Jimmy
12-08-2013, 09:24 AM
First CB for a while for us who understands the importance of clearing his lines. Wins everything in the air.

Apart from their goal...

Waxy
12-08-2013, 12:47 PM
Vine is playing like something is weighing heavily on his shoulders.
Oh.
It's that daft beard.
Get it off.Not very streamlined running through on goal against a wind is it?

Beefster
12-08-2013, 12:48 PM
I am still hopeful Collins will be a quality striker.

Collins will be a player with some support. Vine is a huddy.

Hermit Crab
12-08-2013, 12:52 PM
I actually thought vine looked alright, both starved of service, we have no creativity what so ever!

Yip. Nothing at all. I think we had one good move the whole game when I think it was Robertson went one on one.

PeterboroHibee
12-08-2013, 01:13 PM
I honestly have no idea if either of them are any good.

The way we punt it up the pitch means neither of them really get a chance. Both of them look decent enough with the ball at their feet, but the fact they rarely get it means they cant get properly in the game. I remember one of the few occasions yesterday when they did actually get it down, and Vine played a nice ball into Collins, who beat his man and had a (admittedly tame) shot.

If we want to get anything out of them, we need to stop this 'style' of football and try and play it into their feet, and get good balls into the box from out wide. One of the first things Collins said when he got here was that he wasnt a target man, so why Fenlon has them booting aimless balls up to him I have no idea?

My only concern with the two of them together is they do seem a bit similar, both reasonably sized guys, neither particularly quick, and Im not sure about eithers finishing ability yet.

The Harp
12-08-2013, 01:19 PM
say what you like about him - i'd kill for that beard :not worth

Maybe Pat F's encouraging him to cultivate the beard to give him a place to hide to avoid doing post-match interviews.:wink:

Squealing pig
12-08-2013, 01:20 PM
Collins will b a gd signing. That im sure of, maybe the only gd thing pf wil leave behind

hibeemikey21
12-08-2013, 01:27 PM
FAR too early to be writing either of them off.

People seem to be forgetting that vine was instrumental in St J finishing 3rd last year (joint top scorer with Craig)

I think it is simply a case of letting the two of them get on with it and giving them time to gel. I think would be very hasty to start throwing Caldwell/handling in at the moment.

Give them time. They'll come good.

DH1875
12-08-2013, 01:27 PM
Vine isn't a forward/striker though. He's more of a left sided midfielder and if played there he'll do a good job. Reckon Collins will come good but he don't half need come support and would go so far to say we need another striker brought in to play along side him.

Beefster
12-08-2013, 01:46 PM
Vine isn't a forward/striker though. He's more of a left sided midfielder and if played there he'll do a good job. Reckon Collins will come good but he don't half need come support and would go so far to say we need another striker brought in to play along side him.

Vine's been a striker for most of his career.

The Leith Dutch
12-08-2013, 02:00 PM
In recent years we have had a few duff strikers but always had at least 1 quality striker in the team Griffiths, Riordan, O'Connor or Stokes type of player who could get you something for nothing. Not sure if this applies to any of these two. Vine most certainly is not worthy of the no 9 shirt.

In many ways a striker capable of making something from nothing would be a bad thing as it would just mask the abject lack of attacking threat from the rest of our team.

Last season every other team knew - keep Griffiths quiet and Hibs won't score.
Way to easy to defend against.

Obviously I'd love Griffiths or a similar player back but we absolutely must have more players who can hurt the opposition or we're going nowhere.

DH1875
12-08-2013, 02:10 PM
Vine's been a striker for most of his career.


Maybe, but his best position at St Johnstone was when he was on the left.

truehibernian
12-08-2013, 02:13 PM
Maybe, but his best position at St Johnstone was when he was on the left.

Hibs don't do 'best positions' they do 'Pat's Positions'.

Spike Mandela
17-08-2013, 06:24 PM
Jury still out on these two. Will they ever score a goal?

Onion
17-08-2013, 06:31 PM
Collins still has benefit of the doubt as he's getting zero service, but what I've seen so far isn't great. Remember, he's the one who was talking about making us forget Griffiths :rolleyes:

As for Vine, what a horrible game he had today. Improved a little second half but utterly useless in the first. Some please tell me he's a really good player and will be a great asset to the team once he finds his feet !! He could help us all by shaving that stupid beard off and getting some proper boots. Looks to me like an unfit, ageing guy who's used to playing at a much lower level.

Boyle89
17-08-2013, 06:41 PM
From what I've seen of him so far, Vine looks like a waste of a jersey. Doesn't look like he's fit so maybe that's what it is? I think Collins and handling or Caldwell would be good. Make Vine 'work' for his place.

EastCalderHibby
17-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Collins still has benefit of the doubt as he's getting zero service, but what I've seen so far isn't great. Remember, he's the one who was talking about making us forget Griffiths :rolleyes:

As for Vine, what a horrible game he had today. Improved a little second half but utterly useless in the first. Some please tell me he's a really good player and will be a great asset to the team once he finds his feet !! He could help us all by shaving that stupid beard off and getting some proper boots. Looks to me like an unfit, ageing guy who's used to playing at a much lower level.

Well he certainly could not have been any worse than his first half performance ,Jumps like a fairy ,no forward runs,And booked for the only
challenge he actually tried to win. Hope he comes good but frustrated the **** out of me today.

truehibernian
17-08-2013, 10:20 PM
Well he certainly could not have been any worse than his first half performance ,Jumps like a fairy ,no forward runs,And booked for the only
challenge he actually tried to win. Hope he comes good but frustrated the **** out of me today.

Glad you noticed that - noted at Tynie that James won hee haw in the air against Wilson - and Danny Wilson is soft as ***** !