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View Full Version : Pace, Width and Creativity



Crab apple
11-08-2013, 05:03 PM
We don't have any. With Harris injured and no Griffiths this flaw in the squad is becoming even more apparent. No wingers and no proper fullbacks although when McGivern came on today he initially improved things. I actually think PF has assembled a reasonable bunch of players, certainly an improvement from Coco - it's just a shame they all seem to be defensive midfielders. McCourt coming in might help. I don't see Stanton being the answer just now. Solutions?

Sir David Gray
11-08-2013, 05:09 PM
We don't have any. With Harris injured and no Griffiths this flaw in the squad is becoming even more apparent. No wingers and no proper fullbacks although when McGivern came on today he initially improved things. I actually think PF has assembled a reasonable bunch of players, certainly an improvement from Coco - it's just a shame they all seem to be defensive midfielders. McCourt coming in might help. I don't see Stanton being the answer just now. Solutions?

We need at least one wide player to come in before the end of the month, that will allow Craig to go into his best position, which is in the middle just behind the strikers.

A midfield of;

McCourt
Thomson
Robertson
Craig

Would hopefully do quite well.

Pretty Boy
11-08-2013, 05:11 PM
It was one of the key problems when Fenlon took over.

It's still a problem now. Go figure.

Godsahibby
11-08-2013, 05:13 PM
We have a right winger at the club, Mullen came through the youth ranks at Tiny as a right winger, only when needed he covered at right back (ala spoony!) proved today he is not the greatest tackler. mind you that might solve the right wing issue but would still need a right back!

Crab apple
11-08-2013, 05:34 PM
It was one of the key problems when Fenlon took over.

It's still a problem now. Go figure.

I suppose that's what I was getting at PB. Given we can all see it's a problem why can't he? The only signing rumours we hear about are Claros who is a good player but would only add to the DM overload. Fenlon's not going to resign although I think if we're put out in the League Cup by lower league opposition again then Petrie might be forced to act.

hibee19
11-08-2013, 05:38 PM
We need at least one wide player to come in before the end of the month, that will allow Craig to go into his best position, which is in the middle just behind the strikers.

A midfield of;

McCourt
Thomson
Robertson
Craig

Would hopefully do quite well.

What has Craig done to show you he can be successful playing out wide?

Sir David Gray
11-08-2013, 05:40 PM
What has Craig done to show you he can be successful playing out wide?

Eh? :confused:

I said at the start of that post what I would do with Craig.

scuttle
11-08-2013, 05:40 PM
I dont think pace is everything ,if you can beat your opponent then attack and run into the space the momentum is then with you . I think the problem is nobody seems able or willing to do so. Is it lack of confidence or team instructions?

neil7908
11-08-2013, 06:04 PM
With Harris injured for a while we need to sign a couple of wingers and possibly someone in midfield who plays more centrally that can bridge the gap between defence and attack. Robertson and Craig may be able to achieve this but wide players are essential.

I also think our fullbacks need to get forward more, the OP is right that McGivern made a difference going forward today and I'd really like to see us getting the ball out wide to someone like McCourt, McGivern overlapping on and then people like Robertson and Craig getting into the box or offering options centrally.

Fergus52
11-08-2013, 06:16 PM
What has Craig done to show you he can be successful playing out wide?

Played many games there for st Johnstone?

inclluding some great performances there against us.

Winston Ingram
11-08-2013, 07:10 PM
What has Craig done to show you he can be successful playing out wide?

Craig's never a wide player

truehibernian
11-08-2013, 07:12 PM
Our chairman prefers rugby and is on record as saying it - he's done a good job allowing the manager to put together a rugby team. Slow, cumbersome, physical and nearly always put the ball over the bar. Pat wouldn't know a pacy player if it ran past him like Speedy Gonzales, did a few megs on him, then slotted it into the net - clearly he doesn't like wingers, it's obvious.

CallumLaidlaw
11-08-2013, 07:17 PM
We have a right winger at the club, Mullen came through the youth ranks at Tiny as a right winger, only when needed he covered at right back (ala spoony!) proved today he is not the greatest tackler. mind you that might solve the right wing issue but would still need a right back!

He is far too slow to be a right winger.

HibeeEmma
11-08-2013, 07:17 PM
Fenton is stuck in the Irish league which looks individually at players and their skill rather than building a gelling, physical team with pace to fight opposition.

Only need one or two crafty players to build a winning team around.

DH1875
11-08-2013, 07:34 PM
If Paddy McCourt is the answer to all our problems then we really are Donald Ducked.

I do agree though, we're in dire need of some pace through out the team.

truehibernian
11-08-2013, 07:37 PM
If Paddy McCourt is the answer to all our problems then we really are Donald Ducked.

I do agree though, we're in dire need of some pace through out the team.

Rod Petrie standing aside, getting in a Director of Football, is the answer the Hibs problems - and if someone wants to buy the club off Tom, then perfect.

The problem is in the DNA of the club now, and Rod has been at the helm for all the failed years - surely to anybody, not just the most ardent Hibs fan, the answer is clear. Remove Rod Petrie.

lugz
11-08-2013, 07:39 PM
He is far too slow to be a right winger.

This! How can a professional of his age be so slow?

hibee19
11-08-2013, 11:02 PM
Eh? :confused:

I said at the start of that post what I would do with Craig.

I apologize, never read it properly.

mentalhibee
11-08-2013, 11:08 PM
We don't have any. With Harris injured and no Griffiths this flaw in the squad is becoming even more apparent. No wingers and no proper fullbacks although when McGivern came on today he initially improved things. I actually think PF has assembled a reasonable bunch of players, certainly an improvement from Coco - it's just a shame they all seem to be defensive midfielders. McCourt coming in might help. I don't see Stanton being the answer just now. Solutions?

Pretty sure Stanton is a centre midfielder being played out of position, classic Pat Fenlon.:rolleyes:

The_Horde
11-08-2013, 11:40 PM
What do these 3 words mean?

Iain G
12-08-2013, 01:21 AM
We don't have wide midfielders so why set your team up with players who can't play that position well, with the players we have a narrow midfield is what we get, so you need to get your fullbacks pushing up the park to add width (with the defensive midfielder covering for them) and let the attacking-most midfielder (Craig?) get on the ball with options ahead of and wide of him to spread and move the play around.

McGivern has shown before her can provide width and energy and we need Mullen or whoever on the opposite flank to do the same if we don't sign any wide players!

---------------Williams
-----Mullen Nelson Hanlon McGivern
--------------Thomson
----------Robertson Taiwo
---------------Craig
------------Vine Collins

Can this work?!?

ian omand
12-08-2013, 01:30 PM
Rod Petrie standing aside, getting in a Director of Football, is the answer the Hibs problems - and if someone wants to buy the club off Tom, then perfect.

The problem is in the DNA of the club now, and Rod has been at the helm for all the failed years - surely to anybody, not just the most ardent Hibs fan, the answer is clear. Remove Rod Petrie.

Absolutely correct.
However with STF having said that he could do with another 100 Petries
during an AGM a couple of years ago the possibility of this happening is
very remote as it would make Tam look foolish, and that is something his ego
would not allow.
The whole club is stagnating under Rod's direction and our absentee owner
is incapable of addressing the issue.

number 27
12-08-2013, 01:43 PM
We have a right winger at the club, Mullen came through the youth ranks at Tiny as a right winger, only when needed he covered at right back (ala spoony!) proved today he is not the greatest tackler. mind you that might solve the right wing issue but would still need a right back!


We need a right back anyway. I think a lot of our problems come from full back, we don't defend well in that area and we get very little going forward. With all our defensive midfielders to provide cover we should be able to get two attacking full backs out there to provide pace and width, instead we get slow cumbersome guys like Clancy or Stevenson who give us nothing positive.

The Leith Dutch
12-08-2013, 01:47 PM
Title of the thread sums it up perfectly.

Most goals result from one of the following:
- killer pass
- pace into space behind a defence
- beating a man to get a cross or cut back in

Been a while since we've had players who can do any of the above on a regular basis and Leigh Griffiths last season simply masked this with consistent individual brilliance.

We're utterly woeful in the final third.

TrinityHibs
12-08-2013, 02:01 PM
Our chairman prefers rugby and is on record as saying it - he's done a good job allowing the manager to put together a rugby team. Slow, cumbersome, physical and nearly always put the ball over the bar. Pat wouldn't know a pacy player if it ran past him like Speedy Gonzales, did a few megs on him, then slotted it into the net - clearly he doesn't like wingers, it's obvious.

None of that shower that turned up yesterday would get a look in on a rugby field. A rugby team is made up of a combination of body forms and players who offer something different. To suggest Carlin Isles or Brian Habana are slow is just wrong. Rugby teams generally play as a unit, support each other, offer a lot of movement, offer a lot of commitment, possess basic game skills, have at least one playmaker, look to move forward at all times, have two pacey wingers and do not accept passengers. You see where I am going with this one. They also generally win as a team or lose as a team and don't look for scapegoats but that's another thread.:wink:

truehibernian
12-08-2013, 02:11 PM
None of that shower that turned up yesterday would get a look in on a rugby field. A rugby team is made up of a combination of body forms and players who offer something different. To suggest Carlin Isles or Brian Habana are slow is just wrong. Rugby teams generally play as a unit, support each other, offer a lot of movement, offer a lot of commitment, possess basic game skills, have at least one playmaker, look to move forward at all times, have two pacey wingers and do not accept passengers. You see where I am going with this one. They also generally win as a team or lose as a team and don't look for scapegoats but that's another thread.:wink:

I like rugby myself mate - I was comparing Hibs players to a poor rugby teams forward set up - the kind of set up that's been out the night before up the Cowgate,got in at 3am, half eaten kebab and curly wurly wrapper on the floor, shrapnel in pockets, slept in and then asked to play football half asleep 😊

Dirkster23
12-08-2013, 02:20 PM
We don't have wide midfielders so why set your team up with players who can't play that position well, with the players we have a narrow midfield is what we get, so you need to get your fullbacks pushing up the park to add width (with the defensive midfielder covering for them) and let the attacking-most midfielder (Craig?) get on the ball with options ahead of and wide of him to spread and move the play around.

McGivern has shown before her can provide width and energy and we need Mullen or whoever on the opposite flank to do the same if we don't sign any wide players!

---------------Williams
-----Mullen Nelson Hanlon McGivern
--------------Thomson
----------Robertson Taiwo
---------------Craig
------------Vine Collins

Can this work?!?

Not when the manager sends the team out to defend right from the off.

theonlywayisup
12-08-2013, 07:47 PM
It was one of the key problems when Fenlon took over.

It's still a problem now. Go figure.

Yes - and what does Fenlon do to address the lack of pace, width and creativity. Bring in players who lack all three! Baffling!

Persevere80
12-08-2013, 08:16 PM
We don't have any. With Harris injured and no Griffiths this flaw in the squad is becoming even more apparent. No wingers and no proper fullbacks although when McGivern came on today he initially improved things. I actually think PF has assembled a reasonable bunch of players, certainly an improvement from Coco - it's just a shame they all seem to be defensive midfielders. McCourt coming in might help. I don't see Stanton being the answer just now. Solutions?

The three key factors the club has been missing for a while now and this is why we are in the trouble we are in.





Title of the thread sums it up perfectly.

Most goals result from one of the following:
- killer pass
- pace into space behind a defence
- beating a man to get a cross or cut back in

Been a while since we've had players who can do any of the above on a regular basis and Leigh Griffiths last season simply masked this with consistent individual brilliance.

We're utterly woeful in the final third.


:top marksQuote of the day for me. This sums up how i feel.

Monts
09-04-2016, 11:54 PM
Three years on and it's still the same

lyonhibs
09-04-2016, 11:57 PM
Three years on and it's still the same

:agree::agree:

I saw the thread title and thought it was one started recently and was going to post the exact same as you.

Not entirely sure why you've dug up a thread from 3 years ago, but the point still stands.

When was the last time we had a genuinely speedy and creative midfield unit?? I'd say the thick end of a decade ago, never mind 3 years.

mmmmhibby
10-04-2016, 07:03 AM
Three years on and it's still the same

So true.....sad tho.

Brooster
10-04-2016, 07:49 AM
Shocking lack of width, we rely on or full backs for width which slows everything down. Width is the simplest way to beat teams.....and we have none. I do think we have creative players, they just dont get a chance to express themselves in the current set up and tactics.

neil7908
10-04-2016, 08:38 AM
I agree we are missing all these elements but I also don't think our current forward line is particularly set up to score headed goals. Apart from Farid, when was the last time our forwards consistently won headers against the centre half they were up against over the course of a game?

I felt sorry for Jason in the league cup final as for a spell we kept lumping balls up to him and I don't think he won a single one.

Our team is set up to play in a certain way and I fear even if we did get Boyle and Carmichael into midfield, we still wouldn't get many goals from crosses.

Alfred E Newman
10-04-2016, 08:42 AM
Shocking lack of width, we rely on or full backs for width which slows everything down. Width is the simplest way to beat teams.....and we have none. I do think we have creative players, they just dont get a chance to express themselves in the current set up and tactics.

:agree:
For me, relying on Stevenson and Gray to supply the strikers with decent crosses into the box is the main reason our scoring rate is so poor.
They may be reasonable full backs at this level but their lack of pace and inability to supply good service into the box is there for all to see. On the rare occasions they do manage to get near the bye line, nine times out of ten the ball doesn't get past the first defender.

blackpoolhibs
10-04-2016, 09:00 AM
:agree:
For me, relying on Stevenson and Gray to supply the strikers with decent crosses into the box is the main reason our scoring rate is so poor.
They may be reasonable full backs at this level but their lack of pace and inability to supply good service into the box is there for all to see. On the rare occasions they do manage to get near the bye line, nine times out of ten the ball doesn't get past the first defender.

That is 100% spot on, been saying it for such a long time but i'm then accused of having a pop at Stevenson and lately Gray.

To get round the back of defences, pace and ability, skill good feet quick feet then a good delivery is whats needed.

We have Boyle who has pace and the odd good delivery, but Stubburn persists in Stevenson and Gray, who get the odd floated cross past the first defender and now and then a good delivery, but you know mostly their delivery will be from deep and floated in with little pace and easy for the keeper or the defenders to attack.

Stubborn has persisted in this for how long, and teams now have worked it out. Both sevco and the gimps have just went basic and beaten what was in front of them by getting wide and getting the ball in the box, we are ponderous and dont.

One way gets you up, does the other, i'm not convinced it will?

CockneyRebel
10-04-2016, 12:52 PM
:agree::agree:

I saw the thread title and thought it was one started recently and was going to post the exact same as you.

Not entirely sure why you've dug up a thread from 3 years ago, but the point still stands.

When was the last time we had a genuinely speedy and creative midfield unit?? I'd say the thick end of a decade ago, never mind 3 years.


That's why he re-posted the thread - because the point still hasn't been addressed.

Ronniekirk
10-04-2016, 05:38 PM
Who is currently our top scorer from midfield and how many have they scored ?



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Monts
11-04-2016, 02:28 PM
That's why he re-posted the thread - because the point still hasn't been addressed.

Spot on

erin go bragh
11-04-2016, 02:58 PM
:agree:
For me, relying on Stevenson and Gray to supply the strikers with decent crosses into the box is the main reason our scoring rate is so poor.
They may be reasonable full backs at this level but their lack of pace and inability to supply good service into the box is there for all to see. On the rare occasions they do manage to get near the bye line, nine times out of ten the ball doesn't get past the first defender.

Agree completely . Gunnarson replaced Gray at the PBS and pushed further forward , giving us better width . Gunnarson on one side and Boyle on the other as attacking wing backs , giving us pace and width . It's a pity Carmichael is injured cause he looked the part against Alloa as did Boyle when we played them at ER .

GGTTH

The Sundance Kid
11-04-2016, 03:03 PM
Who is currently our top scorer from midfield and how many have they scored ?



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If you count Boyle as a midfielder, then it would be him with 6. If not, then Henderson with 5

Lago
11-04-2016, 03:04 PM
Three years on and it's still the same
Spooky, thats what it is, spooky:confused:

Onceinawhile
11-04-2016, 04:42 PM
Shocking lack of width, we rely on or full backs for width which slows everything down. Width is the simplest way to beat teams.....and we have none. I do think we have creative players, they just dont get a chance to express themselves in the current set up and tactics.

Especially when those two fullbacks have no end product and refuse to go past players!!

jacomo
11-04-2016, 07:24 PM
Stubborn

This is playground stuff, it really is.

Slag off the manager if you must, but childish nicknames? So unnecessary. Yammish behaviour, frankly.