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1two
06-08-2013, 08:10 AM
Neither of these odious characters are affiliated to hearts anymore.

Can we please avoid singing the equally odious, disgusting, embarrassing and cringeworthy songs about them.

They're not funny and they're definitely not Hibs class.

blackpoolhibs
06-08-2013, 08:17 AM
And while we are at it, keep your thoughts on Wallace Mercer to yourself too.








:faf:

Aldo
06-08-2013, 08:23 AM
And while we are at it, keep your thoughts on Wallace Mercer to yourself too.

:faf:

Chortle chortle (PS He's Deid)

TAHibby
06-08-2013, 08:29 AM
Some chants aren't for me at all but I'm not really bothered, still enjoy the atmosphere a great deal.

Liberal Hibby
06-08-2013, 08:33 AM
Jeez - for a minute there I thought it was another 'who do you wnat to replace Pat Fenlon with' thread...

Spike Mandela
06-08-2013, 08:34 AM
And no songs about flats as property developers will clearly not be interested in prime city land as it is clearly worthless.:cb

Hibbyradge
06-08-2013, 08:36 AM
nltf

BarneyK
06-08-2013, 08:38 AM
And no songs about flats as property developers will clearly not be interested in prime city land as it is clearly worthless.:cb

:agree: Equally, Vlad being chased for a £12m embezzlement charge clearly has nothing to do with them either. Let's try putting a comforting arm around them instead. They're obviously the ones who have been wronged here. Who was to know... :whistle:

Billychaotic182
06-08-2013, 08:44 AM
Have to agree. The whole peado thing is a bit cringe worthy

lugz
06-08-2013, 08:46 AM
Have to agree. The whole peado thing is a bit cringe worthy

It really is, what sort of club would continually employ such animals.

Cabbage East
06-08-2013, 08:49 AM
Yeah, I'd hate to offend anyone :rolleyes:

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 08:51 AM
Please let's not wind up the poor wee souls. Hibs class is sacking our announcer for playing songs which might be deemed embarrassing to homfc.

:rolleyes:

1two
06-08-2013, 09:06 AM
Please let's not wind up the poor wee souls. Hibs class is sacking our announcer for playing songs which might be deemed embarrassing to homfc.

:rolleyes:

It's nothing to do with winding them up.

Anyone who can take amusement out of singing "Paedo Paedo Paedophile" is classless IMO

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 09:10 AM
It's nothing to do with winding them up.

Anyone who can take amusement out of singing "Paedo Paedo Paedophile" is classless IMO


I suppose the romanov view was better; it was the girl's fault.

Make the creep suffer.

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 09:17 AM
Are there any refugees in the Hearts team this week? :dunno:

(Apart from Mr Vlad - from justice - obviously.)

1two
06-08-2013, 09:19 AM
I suppose the romanov view was better; it was the girl's fault.

Make the creep suffer.

What the **** are you slavering about?

I'm not justifying Romanov, Thomson or Rix, read my post again.

I'm talking about the song our fans sing, nothing else.
It's really, really cringeworthy and I think we're better than that.

For the record, any words to that song at a hubs match are piss poor but regardless I don't think we should be singing about paedophilles.

FastEddieFelson
06-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Neither of these odious characters are affiliated to hearts anymore.

Can we please avoid singing the equally odious, disgusting, embarrassing and cringeworthy songs about them.

They're not funny and they're definitely not Hibs class.

agreed. the songs are boring, irrelevant, and embarrassing.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Are there any refugees in the Hearts team this week? :dunno:

(Apart from Mr Vlad - from justice - obviously.)

Fatties as well? Bang out of order to call a football player fat, such as Nade.

And a definite no-no; if any of their front players are useless, do not suggest he's worse than Nade, because that's outright racism.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 09:24 AM
What the **** are you slavering about?

I'm not justifying Romanov, Thomson or Rix, read my post again.

I'm talking about the song our fans sing, nothing else.
It's really, really cringeworthy and I think we're better than that.

For the record, any words to that song at a hubs match are piss poor but regardless I don't think we should be singing about paedophilles.

hubs?

1two
06-08-2013, 09:45 AM
hubs?

Aye very good :

Bostonhibby
06-08-2013, 09:48 AM
Neither of these odious characters are affiliated to hearts anymore.

Can we please avoid singing the equally odious, disgusting, embarrassing and cringeworthy songs about them.

They're not funny and they're definitely not Hibs class.

:agree: on these two especially since pretty much everyone who is interested in Scottish football has made the link between the yam and the quality of person they employ/employed. We should probably stay above this one.

Mercer is one where I dont enjoy any of the singing linked directly to his death or his family but I think anything related to his failure to close us down/have his evil way is fair game, especially when events take the turn they have recently. One team in Edinburgh.

We need more topical songs to show that we move with the times and are not entrenched in or restrained by any ancient history like the rangers or celtc for example. How about.

"Pay for your poppies, you didnae pay for your poppies, pay for your poppies"
or

"You bumped the Battalion Trust, you bumped the Battalion Trust"

Or how about

"200 shafted creditors got bumped by the jambos" to the tune of one man went to mow........there are so many it would probably last the whole 90 minutes.

All bang up to date and factually correct according to their own administrator.:greengrin

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 09:59 AM
:agree: on these two especially since pretty much everyone who is interested in Scottish football has made the link between the yam and the quality of person they employ/employed. We should probably stay above this one.

Mercer is one where I dont enjoy any of the singing linked directly to his death or his family but I think anything related to his failure to close us down/have his evil way is fair game, especially when events take the turn they have recently. One team in Edinburgh.

We need more topical songs to show that we move with the times and are not entrenched in or restrained by any ancient history like the rangers or celtc for example. How about.

"Pay for your poppies, you didnae pay for your poppies, pay for your poppies"
or

"You bumped the Battalion Trust, you bumped the Battalion Trust"

Or how about

"200 shafted creditors got bumped by the jambos" to the tune of one man went to mow........there are so many it would probably last the whole 90 minutes.

All bang up to date and factually correct according to their own administrator.:greengrin

It's not Hibs class to poke fun at someone/something that's fallen on hard times. A number of ordinary people are now out of work, others are being forced to work.for nothing.

Bostonhibby
06-08-2013, 10:07 AM
It's not Hibs class to poke fun at someone/something that's fallen on hard times. A number of ordinary people are now out of work, others are being forced to work.for nothing.

:agree: not that many yammish are that bothered.

Thankfully my suggestions don't affect any of them since none of them will be on the creditors list :greengrin

lugz
06-08-2013, 10:09 AM
What exactly is this "Hibs class" that seems to pop up every so often? Seems to be as big a myth as us playing attractive football.

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 10:09 AM
We need more topical songs to show that we move with the times and are not entrenched in or restrained by any ancient history like the rangers or celtc for example. How about.

"Pay for your poppies, you didnae pay for your poppies, pay for your poppies"
or

"You bumped the Battalion Trust, you bumped the Battalion Trust"



everythingontickback.co.uk would be in meltdown, since these would clearly, clearly be insulting our war dead 1914-1918. Anyone singing them must be a bitter German hobo.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 10:24 AM
This Hibs class phrase getting trotted out in some kind of PC way annoys me. The paedo and Mercer songs are distasteful but if you don't like them don't sing them. Personally as those songs aren't racist sectarian or against any other law I feel they're fair game. I also think it's our duty to remind them of what a vile club they became. I will defend any fan wanting to sing the Mercer song as he tried to kill our club so **** him and the Hearts:flag:

seven nowt
06-08-2013, 10:39 AM
He's one of their own, he's one of their own.. Jimmy Saville, he's one of their own!!

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 11:01 AM
This Hibs class phrase getting trotted out in some kind of PC way annoys me. The paedo and Mercer songs are distasteful but if you don't like them don't sing them. Personally as those songs aren't racist sectarian or against any other law I feel they're fair game. I also think it's our duty to remind them of what a vile club they became. I will defend any fan wanting to sing the Mercer song as he tried to kill our club so **** him and the Hearts:flag:


Congratulations, you win the award for the first use of the 'when you can't think of an argument, use the term Political Correctness' fallback position.



Do any of you that are trotting out the Paedo songs really do this because you care about the victims of Paedophilia? Or are you just happy to use something so vile to get one over on your rivals? Think of that when you're singing it on Sunday.

Hiber-nation
06-08-2013, 11:12 AM
It's nothing to do with winding them up.

Anyone who can take amusement out of singing "Paedo Paedo Paedophile" is classless IMO

Yep, if it's young daft laddies fair enough but blokes in their 40s and 50s....dearie me.

Waxy
06-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Yeh lets all stop singing songs about each other eh. Lets start liking each other eh. Now that the yams are gonna be cack for years(if they survive). Load o bolox

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 11:23 AM
Can someone please produce a list of songs that we are allowed to sing. Is 'we are Hibernian FC' ok or not, don't want to offend those Dundee folks.

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 11:25 AM
Yeh lets all stop singing songs about each other eh. Lets start liking each other eh. Now that the yams are gonna be cack for years(if they survive). Load o bolox

Who said anything of the kind?

You can't think of a counter argument so you rail against somehting that nobody actually said.

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 11:26 AM
Can someone please produce a list of songs that we are allowed to sing.


Why? Do you have no standards of your own?

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 11:30 AM
Why? Do you have no standards of your own?

I have plenty standards. I just don't get offended or go crying about what I hear at a football match.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 11:32 AM
Congratulations, you win the award for the first use of the 'when you can't think of an argument, use the term Political Correctness' fallback position.



Do any of you that are trotting out the Paedo songs really do this because you care about the victims of Paedophilia? Or are you just happy to use something so vile to get one over on your rivals? Think of that when you're singing it on Sunday.

Cheers mate I will take that and present you with the most patronising post award. I don't disagree with the OP stating the songs are offensive but I do disagree with using the phrase not Hibs class to try and win his argument. It's a derby match FFS and if a few offensive songs are sung then so be it.

Bostonhibby
06-08-2013, 11:40 AM
Can someone please produce a list of songs that we are allowed to sing. Is 'we are Hibernian FC' ok or not, don't want to offend those Dundee folks.

We'll meet again?

Maybe we could link arms with them? I'll get my coat.

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 11:41 AM
The song may be in bad taste but this is a club that hired a convicted sex offender as coach. And then kept another on their books after being charged. Why should they not be reminded of this? Nothing more certain that they would let us know all about it if the other way round.

brian6-2
06-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Yeah, I'd hate to offend anyone :rolleyes:

:agree::agree:

lets sit on our hands for 90 minutes and create no atmosphere at all.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Can someone please produce a list of songs that we are allowed to sing. Is 'we are Hibernian FC' ok or not, don't want to offend those Dundee folks.

The Song List

Anything allowed, apart from;
In addition to those offences detailed in the "Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill" (remarkably, this sort of stuff was only outlawed at the football?);

No anti-Nade songs
No Nade-comparison songs
No fattist songs
No ugly-ist songs (e.g. "booked for being ugly" type stuff
No materialistic songs (e.g. "Hearts are going bust" (people are out of work because of this, don't you know?))
No anti-Mercer songs
No "snobby" songs, e.g. "in your Gorgie slums"
No general mockery (e.g. "let's all laught at jam tarts"), because mocking is offensive.
No songs queying the referees parenthood
No songs accusing the man in the middle of having cheating tendencies


ach, I cannae be bothered

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 11:43 AM
The song may be in bad taste but this is a club that hired a convicted sex offender as coach. And then kept another on their books after being charged. Why should they not be reminded of this? Nothing more certain that they would let us know all about it if the other way round.

And the yams defended romanov to the hilt, when he was publicly questioning the girls' innocence in both cases.

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 11:44 AM
The Song List

Anything allowed, apart from;
In addition to those offences detailed in the "Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill" (remarkably, this sort of stuff was only outlawed at the football?);

No anti-Nade songs
No Nade-comparison songs
No fattist songs
No ugly-ist songs (e.g. "booked for being ugly" type stuff
No materialistic songs (e.g. "Hearts are going bust" (people are out of work because of this, don't you know?))
No anti-Mercer songs
No "snobby" songs, e.g. "in your Gorgie slums"
No general mockery (e.g. "let's all laught at jam tarts"), because mocking is offensive.
No songs queying the referees parenthood
No songs accusing the man in the middle of having cheating tendencies


ach, I cannae be bothered

Exactly. People get far too easily offended these days.

Bristolhibby
06-08-2013, 11:44 AM
I like the pay for your poppies song.

Also think waving 10 and 20 pound notes at them sends them radge.

J

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 11:47 AM
I like the pay for your poppies song.

Also think waving 10 and 20 pound notes at them sends them radge.

J

They'll just wave notes back at us, taunting us that they have money because they don't bother paying their creditors.

LioNeilMessi
06-08-2013, 11:49 AM
Agree with OP, these songs are insensitive (on a non footballing level) and I don't join in when they're sung. However I do agree with protests etc against the club's employment standards at the time, but daft songs now tend to add nothing to the support.

Kato
06-08-2013, 11:49 AM
agreed. the songs are boring, irrelevant, and embarrassing.

And bad Karma

Pete
06-08-2013, 11:51 AM
If I hear any songs about Rolf Harris I won't be happy.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 11:51 AM
And the yams defended romanov to the hilt, when he was publicly questioning the girls' innocence in both cases.

Aye maybe if they sacked Thomson from day one then I would feel differently about whether to sing this song instead of keeping him in employment.

brian6-2
06-08-2013, 11:54 AM
where is that wee mint chocolate feast thompson anyway? did he get emptied?

Bostonhibby
06-08-2013, 11:56 AM
If I hear any songs about Rolf Harris I won't be happy.

:agree: pray for the poor Kanagaroos he seemed to favour tying down. Not Hibs class.:greengrin

Thecat23
06-08-2013, 11:56 AM
I personably don't sing these songs, rather sing Hibs songs to encourage the team. Sad thing is its the ones who are about 14 to early 20's that sing these songs mostly, with a few oldies in there.

In this day and age it's more tribal pish rather than actually going and signing about the Hibs.

Will never stop folk singing these songs each to their own but just do what I do and ignore it.

hibbill2002
06-08-2013, 11:56 AM
If I hear any songs about Rolf Harris I won't be happy.

Aye me too, just hope we give the Fritzls a didgeridooin

NadeAteMyLunch!
06-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Hope they aren't going to sing about all the Hibees being gay seeing as none of our players are actually gay(I don't think). Always found that a bizarre song. Wonder if they would have sung it back when Justin Fashanu played up front for them. The only footballer in the uk who's actually came out, who then sadly committed suicide(partly due to the abuse he took from the stands). You've then got THAT video on YouTube by Callum Elliot when he was their star striker and then there are the rumours about our pal George Foulkes. As I've said before though, they don't do irony.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 12:05 PM
:agree: pray for the poor Kanagaroos he seemed to favour tying down. Not Hibs class.:greengrin

And the BBC still gave him the Animal Hospital gig. Shocking :greengrin

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 12:14 PM
I personably don't sing these songs, rather sing Hibs songs to encourage the team. Sad thing is its the ones who are about 14 to early 20's that sing these songs mostly, with a few oldies in there.

In this day and age it's more tribal pish rather than actually going and signing about the Hibs.

Will never stop folk singing these songs each to their own but just do what I do and ignore it.

Suporting a fitba team has always been about tribal p!sh.

1two
06-08-2013, 12:15 PM
The Song List

Anything allowed, apart from;
In addition to those offences detailed in the "Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill" (remarkably, this sort of stuff was only outlawed at the football?);

No anti-Nade songs
No Nade-comparison songs
No fattist songs
No ugly-ist songs (e.g. "booked for being ugly" type stuff
No materialistic songs (e.g. "Hearts are going bust" (people are out of work because of this, don't you know?))
No anti-Mercer songs
No "snobby" songs, e.g. "in your Gorgie slums"
No general mockery (e.g. "let's all laught at jam tarts"), because mocking is offensive.
No songs queying the referees parenthood
No songs accusing the man in the middle of having cheating tendencies


ach, I cannae be bothered


What a load of pish you talk. Apart from the mercer debate no one has mentioned any others.

But if you think it's acceptable to sing songs about paedophiles "playing with children" without even seeing how wrong it is and actually encouraging it, then they're is no point in arguing with you.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 12:20 PM
What a load of pish you talk. Apart from the mercer debate no one has mentioned any others.

But if you think it's acceptable to sing songs about paedophiles "playing with children" without even seeing how wrong it is and actually encouraging it, then they're is no point in arguing with you.


What planet are you on? How the hell is demonising someone about it "encouraging it"??? sake!!!!!!!!! You obviously think everyone should keep mum about it, it's not a problem if everyone pretends it isn't, is that it?

And the list of songs was to point out that virtually any song at the football will offend someone. It seems the point was lost on you, but I'm not surprised.

Future17
06-08-2013, 12:32 PM
Neither of these odious characters are affiliated to hearts anymore.

Can we please avoid singing the equally odious, disgusting, embarrassing and cringeworthy songs about them.

They're not funny and they're definitely not Hibs class.

Totally agree but I think that, when a section of our support are so ******* stupid that they sing "the Mercer song" (including chants of "he's deid") almost straight after a minute's applause for Lawrie Reilly, you're wasting your time.

Juice-Terry
06-08-2013, 12:35 PM
Agree with the OP. A song most likely to be sung by our younger support (no offence). Cringeworthy, so not Hibs class.

:flag:

1two
06-08-2013, 12:38 PM
What planet are you on? How the hell is demonising someone about it "encouraging it"??? sake!!!!!!!!! You obviously think everyone should keep mum about it, it's not a problem if everyone pretends it isn't, is that it?

And the list of songs was to point out that virtually any song at the football will offend someone. It seems the point was lost on you, but I'm not surprised.

No the point is definitely lost on you...

If not encouraging it you seem to think its acceptable.
To Sing "the music man" song with words changed to "paedo paedo paedophile" and "he plays with children" isn't demonising it, is it? It's making a joke of the whole subject.


You're right when you say all football rivalries are Tribal, but if that's the best '1 up' we can think of then we should just give up.

SteveHFC
06-08-2013, 12:39 PM
Agree with OP, these songs are insensitive (on a non footballing level) and I don't join in when they're sung. However I do agree with protests etc against the club's employment standards at the time, but daft songs now tend to add nothing to the support.

Looking forward to singing MYB on sunday :greengrin:duck:

Thecat23
06-08-2013, 12:45 PM
Suporting a fitba team has always been about tribal p!sh.

Sorry but no it hasn't. Years ago guys watched Hibs and Hearts. They didnt sing about Pedo's and folk being dead. Like I say sing what you like no skin off my nose as I don't join in. But it definitely wasn't tribal like it is now.

blackpoolhibs
06-08-2013, 01:25 PM
I suppose we cant sing about folk winning a game of snap anymore? :wink:

Pete
06-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Sorry but no it hasn't. Years ago guys watched Hibs and Hearts. They didnt sing about Pedo's and folk being dead. Like I say sing what you like no skin off my nose as I don't join in. But it definitely wasn't tribal like it is now.

Has it not been "tribal" since the late sixties?

...and I can remember songs about paedos, dead people and a whole lot worse in the eighties.

Rivalries have definitely changed. You know it's tribal when you're penned in like cattle and dozens of your fans go fighting with their counterparts every week.

marinello59
06-08-2013, 02:48 PM
Protesting against Paedophiles destroying childhood innocence by singing funny songs about them in the presence of children? Aye that makes sense. Or rather it doesn't so I will defend singing Paedophiles songs by claiming that the PC brigade would ban all songs, atmosphere etc etc etc. Oh and it's the Fitba so we can do whatever the hell we like because we have no personal standards.

Del Boy
06-08-2013, 02:52 PM
Protesting against Paedophiles destroying childhood innocence by singing funny songs about them in the presence of children? Aye that makes sense. Or rather it doesn't so I will defend singing Paedophiles songs by claiming that the PC brigade would ban all songs, atmosphere etc etc etc. Oh and it's the Fitba so we can do whatever the hell we like because we have no personal standards.

Spot on

Thecat23
06-08-2013, 02:55 PM
Has it not been "tribal" since the late sixties?

...and I can remember songs about paedos, dead people and a whole lot worse in the eighties.

Rivalries have definitely changed. You know it's tribal when you're penned in like cattle and dozens of your fans go fighting with their counterparts every week.

Pretty much yeah. But it wasn't anywhere like that back in the 50's according to my old man. Prob when they started to separate the fans it got worse.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 03:15 PM
Protesting against Paedophiles destroying childhood innocence by singing funny songs about them in the presence of children? Aye that makes sense. Or rather it doesn't so I will defend singing Paedophiles songs by claiming that the PC brigade would ban all songs, atmosphere etc etc etc. Oh and it's the Fitba so we can do whatever the hell we like because we have no personal standards.

Or alternatively we can attack anyone who has a different opinion by stating they have no personal standards. The only people that have no personal standards in my opinion are the people in charge of the club at the time and any of their fans who tried to defend the club's actions in keeping him on

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 03:21 PM
OK, time for a Poll. What are your opinions on wording the question in this manner.



Do you agree that it is acceptable to sing about paedophilia, with no regard to the victims of such crimes, for no other reason than oneupmanship over your local football rivals.

Yes/No



What do you think of this as wording?

:dunno:

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 03:33 PM
Still waiting for comments on my Poll and how to word the question..............

marinello59
06-08-2013, 03:35 PM
Or alternatively we can attack anyone who has a different opinion by stating they have no personal standards. The only people that have no personal standards in my opinion are the people in charge of the club at the time and any of their fans who tried to defend the club's actions in keeping him on

That doesn't make any sense, of course we all have personal standards, just where we set them may be different. But at least concentrating on that means you don't have to answer my questioning of the logic behind singing these songs in the presence of children. It seems a strange way for you to fight this purely moral driven battle against convicted sex criminals.

brian6-2
06-08-2013, 03:36 PM
Still waiting for comments on my Poll and how to word the question..............

I dont know what you hope to achieve with it mate, the songs will still be sung regardless.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 03:38 PM
Sorry but no it hasn't. Years ago guys watched Hibs and Hearts. They didnt sing about Pedo's and folk being dead. Like I say sing what you like no skin off my nose as I don't join in. But it definitely wasn't tribal like it is now.

Sorry but yes it has. football 'hooliganism' is nearly as old as organised football itself. That's the tribalism. It doesn't matter what's being shouted or sung, anything will be picked up on to highlight supposed differences between the "tribes".

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 03:39 PM
Still waiting for comments on my Poll and how to word the question..............

Why don't you just not sing any offensive songs and let those that want to do so?

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 03:39 PM
I dont know what you hope to achieve with it mate, the songs will still be sung regardless.


People's opinions on the question. If we're discussing it here, it surely is relevant.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 03:40 PM
OK, time for a Poll. What are your opinions on wording the question in this manner.



Do you agree that it is acceptable to sing about paedophilia, with no regard to the victims of such crimes, for no other reason than oneupmanship over your local football rivals.

Yes/No



What do you think of this as wording?

:dunno:

Alternatively do you feel that you should be allowed to sing a song about you rivals continuing to employ a convicted sex offender in a privileged position where he could potentially influence minors?

Ok this is being facetious and I really don't want to trivialise the matter but the wording of a question can sway the result. To answer your question though I would vote no but in the specific case of this song at this game I would not berate anyone for doing so:flag:

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 03:41 PM
Why don't you just not sing any offensive songs and let those that want to do so?



Well, that is the issue isn't it. Would you feel comfortable if 3/4 of the Hibs support burst into songs venerating the IRA**? By your reasoning, everyone else should just ignore it and sing non-offensive songs.



** No, I didn't say they would, it's an example to make a point.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 03:42 PM
That doesn't make any sense, of course we all have personal standards, just where we set them may be different. But at least concentrating on that means you don't have to answer my questioning of the logic behind singing these songs in the presence of children. It seems a strange way for you to fight this purely moral driven battle against convicted sex criminals.

Singing the songs isn't celebrating it. Quite the opposite, in fact; it's shouting from the rooftops how despicable it is.

Maybe better to sweep it under the carpet, right enough. :rolleyes:

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 03:44 PM
Well, that is the issue isn't it. Would you feel comfortable if 3/4 of the Hibs support burst into songs venerating the IRA**? By your reasoning, everyone else should just ignore it and sing non-offensive songs.



** No, I didn't say they would, it's an example to make a point.


Publish your list of acceptable songs, and I reckon 3/4 of them could be identified as having something about them that someone will find offensive.

Barman Stanton
06-08-2013, 03:45 PM
Well, that is the issue isn't it. Would you feel comfortable if 3/4 of the Hibs support burst into songs venerating the IRA**? By your reasoning, everyone else should just ignore it and sing non-offensive songs.



** No, I didn't say they would, it's an example to make a point.

Makes no sense tho does it, what's the IRA got to do with the ****? Peedo's is a different story tho. So why not sing about it and remind them? It winds them up.

Don't get me wrong, imo this song and the Mercer one have no place at other games. But these are songs about Jambos.

brian6-2
06-08-2013, 03:47 PM
People's opinions on the question. If we're discussing it here, it surely is relevant.

but fifteen folk or so replying saying its out of order wont stop it being sung, the majority at tynie will sing it regradless, a few folk taking the moral high ground certainly wont put a stop to it.

id love to see some folk of here go to a few games down south, ive been to a few and heard some vile vile things being sung. it happens in football, thats that.

BH Hibs
06-08-2013, 03:51 PM
That doesn't make any sense, of course we all have personal standards, just where we set them may be different. But at least concentrating on that means you don't have to answer my questioning of the logic behind singing these songs in the presence of children. It seems a strange way for you to fight this purely moral driven battle against convicted sex criminals.

Not on any moral crusade sorry if I came over like that. I was merely disagreeing with the point you seemed to be making that by singing this song at a derby match meant you had no personal standards if that wasn't the case then I apologise for picking you up wrong.

1two
06-08-2013, 03:51 PM
Piss off, troll. No great surprise you had a "hubs" typo earlier, can see where you're coming from now.

I'm trolling?

Look, you're either thick or or at the wind up.

Rather than answering my posts throughout this thread with any reasonable argument you've replied with posts commenting on spelling mistakes.

With regards to my last post I said your either encouraging the singing of the song with its lyrics or you think it's acceptable. You've refused to answer this and commented again on a spelling mistake I made about 50 posts ago (which was made due to an autocorrect on my phone)

Now ask yourself who is trolling?

marinello59
06-08-2013, 03:51 PM
Singing the songs isn't celebrating it. Quite the opposite, in fact; it's shouting from the rooftops how despicable it is.

Maybe better to sweep it under the carpet, right enough. :rolleyes:

Did I say that? Where did I say in the post you quoted that people were celebrating it?
Still, anything rather than answer the question I did pose.

1two
06-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Publish your list of acceptable songs, and I reckon 3/4 of them could be identified as having something about them that someone will find offensive.

Of course they will, that's not the point though. Can you honestly not see how a song about paedophillia can be found to be more offensive, insensitive and classless than a song about a former fat hearts striker?

FastEddieFelson
06-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Singing the songs isn't celebrating it. Quite the opposite, in fact; it's shouting from the rooftops how despicable it is.

Maybe better to sweep it under the carpet, right enough. :rolleyes:

seeing as he doesn't play for them any more, there isn't really any point in singing it. the whole "jambos are beasts", "saville is one of your own" chat is embarrassing.

marinello59
06-08-2013, 03:55 PM
but fifteen folk or so replying saying its out of order wont stop it being sung, the majority at tynie will sing it regradless, a few folk taking the moral high ground certainly wont put a stop to it. id love to see some folk of here go to a few games down south, ive been to a few and heard some vile vile things being sung. it happens in football, thats that.


Ironically the ones laying most claim to any moral high ground here are those who are justifying singing the songs. They are exposing that 'vile club.'
Vile things have always been sung at football but that doesn't mean we should all silently accept absolutely everything. When was the last time you heard widespread racist chanting and why do you think that changed?

brian6-2
06-08-2013, 04:07 PM
ironically the ones laying most claim to any moral high ground here are those who are justifying singing the songs. They are exposing that 'vile club.'
Vile things have always been sung at football but that doesn't mean we should all silently accept absolutely everything. When was the last time you heard widespread racist chanting and why do you think that changed?

at the end of the day mate i feel to be a football fan you have to pretty thick skinned, i know maybe everyone isnt but i genuinley dont go to a football match with the mindset that im going to be offended, ive never been offended by anything ive heard and having a laugh at our rivals expence is just having a laugh and adding to the atmosphere, that might sound a wee bit selfish to you but its the way i am, and i think alot of fans are the same.

and i was at the den last year watching burnley v millwall from the burnley end and although it wasnt a massive group and "chanting" as such you could clearly hear sections of the millwall support taunting a couple of coloured burnley fans and bizarrely one of their own stewards.

ive also been at a few manchester derbies in the city end and been surrounded by united fans singing about marc vivien foe, but if you flip it ive heard the city fans sing about munich 58. my point is, when your at the game you dont stop to think of the victims or anything like that its more a reaction that you just want to be a part of the atmosphere.

clerriehibs
06-08-2013, 05:14 PM
Ironically the ones laying most claim to any moral high ground here are those who are justifying singing the songs. They are exposing that 'vile club.'
Vile things have always been sung at football but that doesn't mean we should all silently accept absolutely everything. When was the last time you heard widespread racist chanting and why do you think that changed?

Bizarre post.

Thomson's behaviour was vile. Romanov's defence.of him was vile. hearts fans defending of romanov during all this was questionable to say the least, but defend him they still do.

The song is anti-paedophile. What's vile about that?

Racism is vile, and yet you liken it to the anti-paedophile song.

1two
06-08-2013, 05:19 PM
Bizarre post.

Thomson's behaviour was vile. Romanov's defence.of him was vile. hearts fans defending of romanov during all this was questionable to say the least, but defend him they still do.

The song is anti-paedophile. What's vile about that?

Racism is vile, and yet you liken it to the anti-paedophile song.

To sing about a man 'playing with children' in a jocular way is vile.

End of

bubblesmorrison
06-08-2013, 05:21 PM
Lets just cut out banter between rivals altogether and no getting on at the ref either!

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 05:34 PM
Lets just cut out banter between rivals altogether

:agree: Abuse should be directed only at our own players, management team, board and fans.

silverhibee
06-08-2013, 06:22 PM
Sorry but no it hasn't. Years ago guys watched Hibs and Hearts. They didnt sing about Pedo's and folk being dead. Like I say sing what you like no skin off my nose as I don't join in. But it definitely wasn't tribal like it is now.

Years ago they were singing songs about IRA/UDA.

Keith_M
06-08-2013, 06:24 PM
I hereby withdraw from this debate because too many people have already made up their minds on this and no amount of reasoned argument or logic is going to change that.

Thecat23
06-08-2013, 06:29 PM
Years ago they were singing songs about IRA/UDA.

Early 50's and as many as the amount who sing these days?? No chance.

...WentToMowAnSPL
06-08-2013, 06:35 PM
:agree: Abuse should be directed only at our own players, management team, board and fans.

I think we should blame ourselves :-) 90 mins of 'whose the w ****er in my seat !' Hell of an atmosphere !

Hiber-nation
06-08-2013, 06:39 PM
To sing about a man 'playing with children' in a jocular way is vile.

End of

Spot on, absolutely horrible seeing grown men gleefully bawling this out. Yammish in fact.

Kato
06-08-2013, 06:41 PM
Spot on, absolutely horrible seeing grown men gleefully bawling this out. Yammish in fact.

When it's put like that I can't see that anyone could disagree.

Leith Green
06-08-2013, 06:45 PM
Congratulations, you win the award for the first use of the 'when you can't think of an argument, use the term Political Correctness' fallback position.



Do any of you that are trotting out the Paedo songs really do this because you care about the victims of Paedophilia? Or are you just happy to use something so vile to get one over on your rivals? Think of that when you're singing it on Sunday.


How comes singing about a sex offender is vile? Surely the sex offender is vile??
If that is what gets your back up then fine, but you must live a very sheltered life..

marinello59
06-08-2013, 06:49 PM
Bizarre post.

Thomson's behaviour was vile. Romanov's defence.of him was vile. hearts fans defending of romanov during all this was questionable to say the least, but defend him they still do.

The song is anti-paedophile. What's vile about that?

Racism is vile, and yet you liken it to the anti-paedophile song.


That's the second time you have quoted me on this thread and the second time you have suggested I said something I haven't. Racist songs used to be tolerated until it became generally acknowledged that it was unacceptable. I used that as an example to show how things can change.
Why don't you go back through the thread and actually read my posts, (including the ones you have quoted), then perhaps you will see why I find the song objectionable. I know you won't agree but you could at least acknowledge that an opposing opinion has been expressed rather than pretend that something else entirely has been said.

Eyrie
06-08-2013, 07:36 PM
How comes singing about a sex offender is vile? Surely the sex offender is vile??
If that is what gets your back up then fine, but you must live a very sheltered life..

It's a vile thing to sing about in the first place. There are plenty of other songs that can be used to wind them up, and Mercer is fair game, but a song about paedophilia is a step too far. It's the equivalent of making monkey noises if you saw Medals Mackay at the match.

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 08:01 PM
Songs about racism used to be common

My favourite was

:singing: We hate Dundee, and also the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races :singing:

marinello59
06-08-2013, 08:07 PM
My favourite was

:singing: We hate Dundee, and also the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races :singing:

I've edited that bit, not quite what I meant to say. :greengrin
And to be honest I don't really remember them being tolerated at Hibs games, more of a problem down South really.

Moon unit
06-08-2013, 08:18 PM
Is it true that the Yams have employed Rolf Harris to repaint the steps?..."can you see what it is yet?.."

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 08:39 PM
I've edited that bit, not quite what I meant to say. :greengrin
And to be honest I don't really remember them being tolerated at Hibs games, more of a problem down South really.

We're shirley all against racist or paedophilic songs. Songs about racism/racists or paedophilia/paedophiles, on the other hand, maybe not so clear-cut.

I think if a witty enough song were devised about Medals's alleged indiscretions, it would be ok to sing it. And if a witty enough song were devised about Thomson's or Rix's indiscretions, that would be ok too. Think someone on the forum already made reference to the picture of multiple Jimmy Savile look-alikes as being a queue outside the PBS, or something like that - perfectly acceptable imo.

I'm a bit puzzled by people suggesting that children shouldn't be exposed to songs about paedophilia/paedophiles. Any such songs would be referring to paedophilia/paedophiles in a purely pejorative way - if children hearing fitba songs get any sort of a message from them, isn't the message that they'll be getting from these particular songs paedophiles are bad, and isn't this more or less the correct message? :confused:

Kato
06-08-2013, 09:00 PM
We're shirley all against racist or paedophilic songs. Songs about racism/racists or paedophilia/paedophiles, on the other hand, maybe not so clear-cut.

I think if a witty enough song were devised about Medals's alleged indiscretions, it would be ok to sing it. And if a witty enough song were devised about Thomson's or Rix's indiscretions, that would be ok too. Think someone on the forum already made reference to the picture of multiple Jimmy Savile look-alikes as being a queue outside the PBS, or something like that - perfectly acceptable imo.

I'm a bit puzzled by people suggesting that children shouldn't be exposed to songs about paedophilia/paedophiles. Any such songs would be referring to paedophilia/paedophiles in a purely pejorative way - if children hearing fitba songs get any sort of a message from them, isn't the message that they'll be getting from these particular songs paedophiles are bad, and isn't this more or less the correct message? :confused:

All fair points. Let's say you were at a party and stood up and sang a jocular song about the crimes of Dennis Neilson, with a chorus something like "he chopped their bodies and chopped their brains, He chopped them up and blocked his drains" (I know, never going to sell a million) - but then found out that relatives of one his victims were sitting next to you, would you not feel a tad boorish, maybe even utterly stupid.

marinello59
06-08-2013, 09:15 PM
I'm a bit puzzled by people suggesting that children shouldn't be exposed to songs about paedophilia/paedophiles. Any such songs would be referring to paedophilia/paedophiles in a purely pejorative way - if children hearing fitba songs get any sort of a message from them, isn't the message that they'll be getting from these particular songs paedophiles are bad, and isn't this more or less the correct message? :confused:

Dad....What's a Paedophile?
Dad..... why are the people singing the song laughing if its a bad thing?
Are you seriously telling me that song is sung to educate children as to the dangers posed by Paedophiles? We both know that is a ludicrous defence. Is it so hard for fully grown adults to understand that using sex crimes against children to score points over a rival could be justifiably unacceptable to some?
I am out of this one before somebody suggests that those singing the songs get sponsorship from childline.

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 09:36 PM
Dad....What's a Paedophile?

This word is everywhere already.
A father who is scared of that question is in danger of failing his child.


Dad..... why are the people singing the song laughing if its a bad thing?
Son, they're pished.



Are you seriously telling me that song is sung to educate children as to the dangers posed by Paedophiles?

Eh, no. I refer you to earlier posts about misrepresenting others' views!

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 09:38 PM
All fair points. Let's say you were at a party and stood up and sang a jocular song about the crimes of Dennis Neilson, with a chorus something like "he chopped their bodies and chopped their brains, He chopped them up and blocked his drains" (I know, never going to sell a million) - but then found out that relatives of one his victims were sitting next to you, would you not feel a tad boorish, maybe even utterly stupid.

What if a relative of Neilson's victims is reading this thread? Do you feel boorish/utterly stupid for bringing the subject up? :dunno:

Hibercelona
06-08-2013, 10:08 PM
Can't we just sing about how great we are and how ***** Hearts are?

I don't see why songs about sex offenders and dead people have to be thrown in there. If we're that desperate for chants, then we have a serious problem.

Kato
06-08-2013, 10:11 PM
What if a relative of Neilson's victims is reading this thread? Do you feel boorish/utterly stupid for bringing the subject up? :dunno:

So you get the point then.

lapsedhibee
06-08-2013, 10:24 PM
So you get the point then.

I get it, but don't necessarily agree with the notion that you shouldn't do things in case someone, somewhere, has hurt feelings as a result. If you never talked about death because someone listening may have recently been bereaved, you'd never talk about death. If you never talked about child abuse because someone listening may have been abused, you'd never talk about child abuse.

I personally wouldn't sing a song about WM being deed, nor about Rix or Thomson being pervs, but there's scarier things at the fitba. Fellow fans screaming - literally screaming - abuse at their own players, with eyes popping and veins bulging, for example. "Dad, why's that man like that?" "Son, it's because he's a nutter." "Dad, why have you brought me to this place and sat me right next to a nutter, when it's your role in life to protect me?"

Kato
06-08-2013, 10:37 PM
I get it, but don't necessarily agree with the notion that you shouldn't do things in case someone, somewhere, has hurt feelings as a result. If you never talked about death because someone listening may have recently been bereaved, you'd never talk about death. If you never talked about child abuse because someone listening may have been abused, you'd never talk about child abuse.

I personally wouldn't sing a song about WM being deed, nor about Rix or Thomson being pervs, but there's scarier things at the fitba. Fellow fans screaming - literally screaming - abuse at their own players, with eyes popping and veins bulging, for example. "Dad, why's that man like that?" "Son, it's because he's a nutter." "Dad, why have you brought me to this place and sat me right next to a nutter, when it's your role in life to protect me?"

I never mentioned stopping anyone or asked anyone to stop. Just feel the whole thing has ran it's course.

marinello59
07-08-2013, 05:51 AM
This word is everywhere already.
A father who is scared of that question is in danger of failing his child.

Thanks for the parenting advice.I am sure parents of younger kids will be delighted to have that discussion forced on them at an entertainment venue rather than discussed in the home environment. A father who takes pleasure in singing that song in front of other kids.......would you say he had failed his child or done them proud?.
Son, they're pished.

Which makes it acceptable?
Eh, no. I refer you to earlier posts about misrepresenting others' views!

Actually that last one is a fair cop. Sorry. Claiming any educational value to the song at all though is somewhat ludicrous.

Future17
07-08-2013, 06:25 AM
Is a more likely conversation, judging by this thread, not:


Dad..... why are you singing the song laughing if its a bad thing?


Son, I'm pished.

lapsedhibee
07-08-2013, 07:55 AM
I am sure parents of younger kids will be delighted to have that discussion forced on them at an entertainment venue rather than discussed in the home environment.

Different environment would no doubt be preferable. But what about all the other dodgy words belted out at fitba - does the same argument not apply to them? "Dad, what's a f***ing w**ker?"



A father who takes pleasure in singing that song in front of other kids.......would you say he had failed his child or done them proud?.
I still struggle to see how it's significantly worse than much of the other outrageously aggressive behaviour at fitba matches. If you're going to take young children to Cat A fitba matches their ears are going to get a battering one way or another, and if they're inquisitive types then their parents are going to have questions to answer. "Dad, what's a paedo?" doesn't seem to me any worse than the previous example, but that's just an opinion.

Paedophilia gets an airing pretty much every second TV news bulletin anyway, so it's hard to imagine that most people will be introduced to the concept at the SPL.

All these questions are best answered imo by a simple "Ask your mother when you get home."

marinello59
07-08-2013, 10:11 AM
Different environment would no doubt be preferable. But what about all the other dodgy words belted out at fitba - does the same argument not apply to them? "Dad, what's a f***ing w**ker?"


I still struggle to see how it's significantly worse than much of the other outrageously aggressive behaviour at fitba matches. If you're going to take young children to Cat A fitba matches their ears are going to get a battering one way or another, and if they're inquisitive types then their parents are going to have questions to answer. "Dad, what's a paedo?" doesn't seem to me any worse than the previous example, but that's just an opinion.

Paedophilia gets an airing pretty much every second TV news bulletin anyway, so it's hard to imagine that most people will be introduced to the concept at the SPL.

All these questions are best answered imo by a simple "Ask your mother when you get home."

Good points and hard to give a short answer to. I guess we all have a point we draw the line at. Crimes against children are so horrific that any attempt to make capital out of it merely to score points over a football rival just seems wrong to me. The attempt to justify singing these songs by some as a sort of moral act mystifies me. I ain't going to convince anybody who wants to sing it from doing so, in fact the more old duffers like me go on about it the more attractive young men are going to find singing it. So probably best I bow out completely from this one now. :greengrin
Your comments about bad language sort of come in to the same territory for me. My language is appalling at times but I wouldn't use the C word where there are families present. What makes that word worse than any of the others? I don't know.......to me it just is.
'Ask your mother when you get home' used to be my stock answer for everything. My wee lad is 11 now and has been a regular at ER since he was 4 so there isn't much he hasn't heard by now. He already tells me that what happens at fitba stays at the fitba. :greengrin

HUTCHYHIBBY
07-08-2013, 10:38 AM
I wonder if theres a thread on JKB full of Yams fretting about songs that might offend the sensitivities of their buddies from ER?

Hibrandenburg
07-08-2013, 10:42 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

HUTCHYHIBBY
07-08-2013, 11:03 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

Strap yourself in and enjoy the ride!

lapsedhibee
07-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?


Do you think it's hypocritical of peeps from Bristol to be against slavery in 2013, because their forefathers benefited economically from it? :dunno:

higgy0418
07-08-2013, 11:20 AM
Bit of a tangent but Craig Thomson moved to Cyprus at the weekend. Not sure who he's signed for though

1two
07-08-2013, 11:33 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

This post is ridiculous on so many levels, I think I'll leave it for someone else to tear apart.

brian6-2
07-08-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

You have to be at the wind up?

1two
07-08-2013, 11:40 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

Actually this post is more offensive than the paedo song

Future17
07-08-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

Wow.

Time For Heroes
07-08-2013, 11:55 AM
I do hope that you are on the wind up?!
Honestly don't even know where to begin.


I'm gonna get stick for this but here goes anyway.

Does anyone else not consider that we as a club who were formed by an organization renowned for worldwide sexual abuse of children not find it somewhat hypocritical to try and take the moral high ground on this subject?

Add to that that the likelihood that a fair percentage of fans on both sides probably suffered one form of abuse or another, then I think maybe we should give it a rest.

cabbageandribs1875
07-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Sorry but no it hasn't. Years ago guys watched Hibs and Hearts. They didnt sing about Pedo's and folk being dead. Like I say sing what you like no skin off my nose as I don't join in. But it definitely wasn't tribal like it is now.



iirc wallet mercer himself stated football was indeed about tribalism(certainly hibs and hertz anyway)

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 09:00 AM
This post is ridiculous on so many levels, I think I'll leave it for someone else to tear apart.

No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?

Ritchie
08-08-2013, 09:07 AM
i love these self-righteous posts on here! :aok:

writing something like this on a forum won't be read never mind adhered to by 90% of the hibees at Tynie on Sunday.

Peevemor
08-08-2013, 09:10 AM
No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?

Hibs weren't founded by the Catholic church but by a group of immigrants centered round a Catholic church. If you want to suggest that St. Patrick's in the Cowgate is responsable for child abuse on a massive scale then that's up to you, otherwise I don't think your point is valid.

CropleyWasGod
08-08-2013, 09:15 AM
No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?

I think you are touching on a valid point.

However, for me any sense of "moral high ground" disappears the moment we walk into a football ground. It's an irrational atmosphere at the best of times, grown men and women getting excited and depressed at the ability or inability of young men to do their highly-paid jobs. Against that background, the songs and chants are things that, for the most part, we wouldn't dream of repeating outside of that environment.

Football matches are, for many of us, a pressure valve.... where we can let off the stresses of life and be 90-minute moralists, foul-mouthed cretins, hero-worshippers, sectarian bigots, whatever we choose to be.

For me, therefore, trying to rationalise the argument of "moral high ground" in the environment of a football match is irrational in itself.

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 09:25 AM
Hibs weren't founded by the Catholic church but by a group of immigrants centered round a Catholic church. If you want to suggest that St. Patrick's in the Cowgate is responsable for child abuse on a massive scale then that's up to you, otherwise I don't think your point is valid.

Not suggesting anything of the sort. All I'm saying is not only is the song of dubious taste but also hypocritical once you've scratched the surface of our own history. You can't cherry pick what elements of our past you want and disregard the rest, like it or not but our roots are entwined with an organisation that some would consider dubious.

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 09:30 AM
I think you are touching on a valid point.

However, for me any sense of "moral high ground" disappears the moment we walk into a football ground. It's an irrational atmosphere at the best of times, grown men and women getting excited and depressed at the ability or inability of young men to do their highly-paid jobs. Against that background, the songs and chants are things that, for the most part, we wouldn't dream of repeating outside of that environment.

Football matches are, for many of us, a pressure valve.... where we can let off the stresses of life and be 90-minute moralists, foul-mouthed cretins, hero-worshippers, sectarian bigots, whatever we choose to be.

For me, therefore, trying to rationalise the argument of "moral high ground" in the environment of a football match is irrational in itself.

Excellent and level headed post.

I knew I would attract abuse for my first post but I just had to play devils advocate. Like my old gran used to say " If ye cannae tak it, then dinnae dish it oot!"

Bostonhibby
08-08-2013, 09:50 AM
No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?

My contribution to the debate.

We are some way on from being the club of our founding fathers and are rightly proud of the footballing / social history side of our club but we never seem to have had all of the other facets of an organisation like a church that makes the sort of abuse that you allude to possible.

I like to think that we are more forward looking than having catholicism, or any other religion high up on our clubs and supporters agenda, but even if it was that particular institution is now (belatedly in my opinion) facing up to its many wrongs of the past.Arguably because it was forced to. I am not so sure you could say that about many aspects of the yammishs' much more recent history and behaviour.

Tin hat on, and purely for this debate! - is it also fair to say that, putting aside all the stick we want to give them, there isn't actually any evidence of there being a structure or culture of premeditated abuse of the type you refer to above at the PBS?

What rightly repulses and makes them fair game in the minds of many football fans is the acts of individuals they recently employed and especially the manner in which they dealt with them and the implied refusal of some to disassociate themselves from it completely - particularly the much revered owner at the time.

I don't sing the songs as I don't get that excited about them either way now - the yam are widely vilified amongst football fans who know all the recent history - but I respect anyones right to sing what they like at a match, something similar will come the other way usually.

My views about Mercer and what should happen to the modern day yams are unchanged since HOH - Liquidation and all the worst side effects of that are the minimum. Followed by a sustained and lengthy disclosure by the Lithuanian auhorities of how all the money was laundered around the system before being syphoned off to the elite gang. Hopefully the authorities will get to the Dear Leader before his former associates do :greengrin

Over and out

Bleeds green
08-08-2013, 09:51 AM
@JamieWalkerr14: “@jessica98xo: If your 18 and **** anyone under 16 you should probably have a word #quiterapey 😷✋” @ChrissyHughes3

DISGUSTING thing to tweet about!!

Bishop Hibee
08-08-2013, 09:57 AM
No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?

Aye that's the main thing the Roman Catholic Church is "renowned" for :fuming: What about feeding the poor, caring for the elderly and sick and fighting injustice? Child sex abuse is a stain on the catholic church no doubt about it but to resort to what is basically claiming that's what the catholic church and therefore by implication it's members are renowned for is frankly a perversion of the truth and is something I'd expect on the extremes of the Follow Follow types.

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 10:20 AM
My contribution to the debate.

We are some way on from being the club of our founding fathers and are rightly proud of the footballing / social history side of our club but we never seem to have had all of the other facets of an organisation like a church that makes the sort of abuse that you allude to possible.

I like to think that we are more forward looking than having catholicism, or any other religion high up on our clubs and supporters agenda, but even if it was that particular institution is now (belatedly in my opinion) facing up to its many wrongs of the past.Arguably because it was forced to. I am not so sure you could say that about many aspects of the yammishs' much more recent history and behaviour.

Tin hat on, and purely for this debate! - is it also fair to say that, putting aside all the stick we want to give them, there isn't actually any evidence of there being a structure or culture of premeditated abuse of the type you refer to above at the PBS?

What rightly repulses and makes them fair game in the minds of many football fans is the acts of individuals they recently employed and especially the manner in which they dealt with them and the implied refusal of some to disassociate themselves from it completely - particularly the much revered owner at the time.

I don't sing the songs as I don't get that excited about them either way now - the yam are widely vilified amongst football fans who know all the recent history - but I respect anyones right to sing what they like at a match, something similar will come the other way usually.

My views about Mercer and what should happen to the modern day yams are unchanged since HOH - Liquidation and all the worst side effects of that are the minimum. Followed by a sustained and lengthy disclosure by the Lithuanian auhorities of how all the money was laundered around the system before being syphoned off to the elite gang. Hopefully the authorities will get to the Dear Leader before his former associates do :greengrin

Over and out

Again another interesting point of view. You did spoil it however with the final 3 words (accidentally on purpose I presume)

:greengrin

Bostonhibby
08-08-2013, 10:22 AM
Again another interesting point of view. You did spoil it however with the final 3 words (accidentally on purpose I presume)

:greengrin

Roger That!

1two
08-08-2013, 10:29 AM
No go on, have a go. I'm genuinely interested in why you believe we have the right to take the moral high ground here.

I mearly pointed out the hypocrisy in us singing about paedophilia in relation to Hearts when the organisation to which our founding fathers belonged to has been involved in thousands of incidents of child abuse throughout its history.

Is it only banter when we're dishing it out?


Forgetting about football for a moment, are you suggesting a catholic would be a hypocrite to have an opinion opposing paedophillia because of the actions some members of the Catholic Church?

Now, as you rightly point out in another post we can't cherry pick parts of our history to suit an argument, but likewise, we can't make up our history to suit another - we weren't founded by the Catholic Church!

This thread has got ridiculous

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 10:57 AM
My contribution to the debate.

We are some way on from being the club of our founding fathers and are rightly proud of the footballing / social history side of our club but we never seem to have had all of the other facets of an organisation like a church that makes the sort of abuse that you allude to possible.

I like to think that we are more forward looking than having catholicism, or any other religion high up on our clubs and supporters agenda, but even if it was that particular institution is now (belatedly in my opinion) facing up to its many wrongs of the past.Arguably because it was forced to. I am not so sure you could say that about many aspects of the yammishs' much more recent history and behaviour.

Tin hat on, and purely for this debate! - is it also fair to say that, putting aside all the stick we want to give them, there isn't actually any evidence of there being a structure or culture of premeditated abuse of the type you refer to above at the PBS?

What rightly repulses and makes them fair game in the minds of many football fans is the acts of individuals they recently employed and especially the manner in which they dealt with them and the implied refusal of some to disassociate themselves from it completely - particularly the much revered owner at the time.

I don't sing the songs as I don't get that excited about them either way now - the yam are widely vilified amongst football fans who know all the recent history - but I respect anyones right to sing what they like at a match, something similar will come the other way usually.

My views about Mercer and what should happen to the modern day yams are unchanged since HOH - Liquidation and all the worst side effects of that are the minimum. Followed by a sustained and lengthy disclosure by the Lithuanian auhorities of how all the money was laundered around the system before being syphoned off to the elite gang. Hopefully the authorities will get to the Dear Leader before his former associates do :greengrin

Over and out

Again another interesting point of view. You did spoil it however with the final 3 words (accidentally on purpose I presume)

:greengrin

Cabbage East
08-08-2013, 11:18 AM
:confused:

NadeAteMyLunch!
08-08-2013, 11:27 AM
This has all got a bit silly

SolentHibee
08-08-2013, 11:53 AM
Forgetting about football for a moment, are you suggesting a catholic would be a hypocrite to have an opinion opposing paedophillia because of the actions some members of the Catholic Church?

Now, as you rightly point out in another post we can't cherry pick parts of our history to suit an argument, but likewise, we can't make up our history to suit another - we weren't founded by the Catholic Church!

This thread has got ridiculous

This! Sorry Hiberlin but your use of logic is flawed - the idea that you can conflate the employment of known sex offenders with a connection over 100 years ago to a religious organisation with a history of sexual abuse is just fuzzy thinking.

You would have a point if there were any allegations or proven instances of sexual abuse by the founders of the club, or by any subsequent members of the club, but there is no such evidence.

You are using the sort of argument that says that because my grandad drank beer and was a driver, even though he did not drink and drive, I am not allowed to condemn drunk-drivers who kill people, purely because my forbear belonged to a subset of the population that drank and who could drive.

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 03:45 PM
This! Sorry Hiberlin but your use of logic is flawed - the idea that you can conflate the employment of known sex offenders with a connection over 100 years ago to a religious organisation with a history of sexual abuse is just fuzzy thinking.

You would have a point if there were any allegations or proven instances of sexual abuse by the founders of the club, or by any subsequent members of the club, but there is no such evidence.

You are using the sort of argument that says that because my grandad drank beer and was a driver, even though he did not drink and drive, I am not allowed to condemn drunk-drivers who kill people, purely because my forbear belonged to a subset of the population that drank and who could drive.

Agreed! And by the same logic we can't rib them that Jimmy Saville is "one of their own" or that they're all paedos because of the actions of two beasts who were associated with their club.

Like I said, I was playing devil's advocate and it's thrown up a few interesting opinions. To those who think this thread has gone silly, I'd say the songs are silly in the first place. That's the whole point I was trying to make but was obviously lost on some.

blackpoolhibs
08-08-2013, 04:08 PM
The only thing we can be 100% sure of here, is Mercer tried to Kill Hibernian Football Club, but failed. He's deid and we are not. In fact he's deid, and his club are on its last leg makes the song more significant.

That makes that song 100% ok for me, if i was at the game i'd be belting it out loud and proud. I shall still sing it from wherever i'm watching the game on Sunday.



He's deid.

Dashing Bob S
08-08-2013, 04:47 PM
Surely it's time to put this one to bed.









(As Rixy said on a school's coaching visit.)

Hibrandenburg
08-08-2013, 05:05 PM
Or the Bishop to the choir boy! :greengrin

Www1875hfc
08-08-2013, 06:19 PM
i love these self-righteous posts on here! :aok:

writing something like this on a forum won't be read never mind adhered to by 90% of the hibees at Tynie on Sunday.

Certainly went down well over the road ritchie

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/131340-belter-of-a-peado-post-on-hibsnet/

Pretty Boy
08-08-2013, 06:42 PM
Every ****ing time without fail.

The same arguments over and over with accusations ranging from racism to PC gone mad.

deeks01
08-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Can't we just wave £20 notes at them and sing 'dance for the money let's see you dance for the money'? or would we then need to give them the money if they did , in their desperation , dance for it? And if we did see thousands of Jambos dancing who would pay for our therapy following such a horrid event to witness?



This is the reason I stopped trying to think on football songs... always fare badly.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

HUTCHYHIBBY
08-08-2013, 06:51 PM
Certainly went down well over the road ritchie

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/131340-belter-of-a-peado-post-on-hibsnet/

The boy beats on that thread has even managed to make a spelling error in creating his user name!

BH Hibs
08-08-2013, 07:10 PM
To the jambos looking in can I extend a GIRFUY you Hearts *******s :na na: :fenlon:giruy::yw:

rcarter1
08-08-2013, 07:10 PM
Can't we just wave £20 notes at them and sing 'dance for the money let's see you dance for the money'? or would we then need to give them the money if they did , in their desperation , dance for it? And if we did see thousands of Jambos dancing who would pay for our therapy following such a horrid event to witness?



This is the reason I stopped trying to think on football songs... always fare badly.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

I prefer this type of approach.

The Mercer song made a point, but has done the rounds, and the 'other' songs are just a bit shoddy. Its not a funny topic, and it makes me cringe.

Ill be bringing a fiver anyway....:cb

BH Hibs
08-08-2013, 08:23 PM
The boy beats on that thread has even managed to make a spelling error in creating his user name!

To cut the number of offensive songs in half can we sing "tell all the beasts you know? :cb :tin hat:

Holmesdale Hibs
08-08-2013, 08:37 PM
I struggle to see why any adult would want to sing songs about peedos at the top of their voice. Bit twisted IMO. The Mercer songs... fair enough, he tried to destroy out club so don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather we just sang hibs songs. The atmosphere is always best when we get right behind our team. Too many wee neds at football who go with the GIRFUY mentality and care more about winding up the opposition than they do about Hibs.

GreenArmyyy!
08-08-2013, 08:58 PM
Certainly went down well over the road ritchie

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/131340-belter-of-a-peado-post-on-hibsnet/
Yep, the Jambos crucifying us for singing about peadophile's. I'm not condoning it in any way but they have a short memory singing and I quote 'Shoot Zemmama peadophile'. Take a look in the mirror.

frazeHFC
08-08-2013, 09:04 PM
Don't think the Mercer/Paedo songs was as much of a problem last year tbh. Not long ago every other song concerned them but the introduction of 'Alez Au' and 'Hibs' (clap one) has limited them down a bit. As far as I care those going and paying decent money can sing what they want and make the atmosphere as hostile as possible. :devil: