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Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 09:30 AM
Rod Petrie and Hibs

Career (1996 – Present)

Advisor to STF 1991 (During Hearts takeover bid)
Appointed to board 1996
Managing Director 1997
Chairman 2004

Infrastructure

West Stand, Famous Five, South, East Stand, East Mains Training Centre

Achievements

1999 – First Division Champions
2007 – Scottish League Cup winners (Runners up 2004)
Qualification for Europe (2013, 2010, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001,

League placing

1996 – 9th
1997 – 10th
1998 – 1st Division Champions
1999 – 6th
2000 – 3rd
2001 – 10th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 8th
2004 – 3rd
2005 – 4th
2006 - 6th
2007 – 6th
2008 – 6th
2009 – 4th
2010 – 10th
2011 – 11th
2012 – 7th
Average placing – 6th

UEFA Ranking

1996 – 173
2013 – 267

Managers

Jim Duffy (1996 – 1998) Win% = 20 (Sacked)
Alex McLeish (1998 – 2001) Win% = 46 (Won 1st Division left to manage Rangers)
Frank Sauzee (2001 – 2002) Win% = 6 (Sacked)
Bobby Williamson (2002 – 2004) Win% = 36 (left to manage Plymouth Argyle)
Tony Mowbray (2004 – 2006) Win% = 48 (left to manage West Brom)
John Collins (2006 – 2007) Win% = 42 (League Cup 2007 resigned)
Mixu Paatalainen (2008 – 2009) Win% = 30 (Left by mutual consent)
John Hughes (2009 – 2010) Win% = 35 (Left by mutual consent)
Colin Calderwood (2010 – 2011) Win% = 24 (sacked)
Pat Fenlon (2011 – Present) Win% = 34 (current incumbent)

adhibs
05-08-2013, 09:36 AM
Nearly two decades of under achieving and mediocrity.

Time to go ya clown

blackpoolhibs
05-08-2013, 09:39 AM
Rod Petrie and Hibs

Career (1996 – Present)

Advisor to STF 1991 (During Hearts takeover bid)
Appointed to board 1996
Managing Director 1997
Chairman 2004

Infrastructure

West Stand, Famous Five, South, East Stand, East Mains Training Centre

Achievements

1999 – First Division Champions
2007 – Scottish League Cup winners (Runners up 2004)
Qualification for Europe (2013, 2010, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001,

League placing

1996 – 9th
1997 – 10th
1998 – 1st Division Champions
1999 – 6th
2000 – 3rd
2001 – 10th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 8th
2004 – 3rd
2005 – 4th
2006 - 6th
2007 – 6th
2008 – 6th
2009 – 4th
2010 – 10th
2011 – 11th
2012 – 7th
Average placing – 6th

UEFA Ranking

1996 – 173
2013 – 267

Managers

Jim Duffy (1996 – 1998) Win% = 20 (Sacked)
Alex McLeish (1998 – 2001) Win% = 46 (Won 1st Division left to manage Rangers)
Frank Sauzee (2001 – 2002) Win% = 6 (Sacked)
Bobby Williamson (2002 – 2004) Win% = 36 (left to manage Plymouth Argyle)
Tony Mowbray (2004 – 2006) Win% = 48 (left to manage West Brom)
John Collins (2006 – 2007) Win% = 42 (League Cup 2007 resigned)
Mixu Paatalainen (2008 – 2009) Win% = 30 (Left by mutual consent)
John Hughes (2009 – 2010) Win% = 35 (Left by mutual consent)
Colin Calderwood (2010 – 2011) Win% = 24 (sacked)
Pat Fenlon (2011 – Present) Win% = 34 (current incumbent)

Only 4 times did we finish 4th or above, thats a failure in my book each and every time.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 09:56 AM
Only 4 times did we finish 4th or above, thats a failure in my book each and every time.

In terms of player budget availability versus where we have actually finished, we are under performing as a business compared to our competitors.

If you look at pre-Petrie, our success over a similar period was about the same.

For me, people want to be entertained. We can't go on about previous successes before Petrie as it is by and large the same.

The main gripe is a lack of playing attacking, exciting football. IMO

blackpoolhibs
05-08-2013, 10:02 AM
In terms of player budget availability versus where we have actually finished, we are under performing as a business compared to our competitors.

If you look at pre-Petrie, our success over a similar period was about the same.

For me, people want to be entertained. We can't go on about previous successes before Petrie as it is by and large the same.

The main gripe is a lack of playing attacking, exciting football. IMO

Oh yes i am only too aware of how pish we have been even before STF and Petrie's time at the club.

It makes no difference though, unless because its the norm for us to underperform its now acceptable and not worth criticising anymore?

Hibbyradge
05-08-2013, 10:04 AM
You forgot Scottish Cup finalists 2001 2012 2013

:tin hat:

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 10:07 AM
You forgot Scottish Cup finalists 2001 2012 2013

:tin hat:

I also forgot to add we died as a club on May 2012. :greengrin

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 10:10 AM
Oh yes i am only too aware of how pish we have been even before STF and Petrie's time at the club.

It makes no difference though, unless because its the norm for us to underperform its now acceptable and not worth criticising anymore?

As we all know Petrie gets plaudits for being an accountant. However, there's plenty room for criticism giving our reflective budget and finishing positions compared to our competitors. It smacks of consistent under performance and it's there for all to see in the stats.

Onion
05-08-2013, 10:10 AM
Rod Petrie and Hibs

Career (1996 – Present)

Advisor to STF 1991 (During Hearts takeover bid)
Appointed to board 1996
Managing Director 1997
Chairman 2004

Infrastructure

West Stand, Famous Five, South, East Stand, East Mains Training Centre

Achievements

1999 – First Division Champions
2007 – Scottish League Cup winners (Runners up 2004)
Qualification for Europe (2013, 2010, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001,

League placing

1996 – 9th
1997 – 10th
1998 – 1st Division Champions
1999 – 6th
2000 – 3rd
2001 – 10th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 8th
2004 – 3rd
2005 – 4th
2006 - 6th
2007 – 6th
2008 – 6th
2009 – 4th
2010 – 10th
2011 – 11th
2012 – 7th
Average placing – 6th

UEFA Ranking

1996 – 173
2013 – 267

Managers

Jim Duffy (1996 – 1998) Win% = 20 (Sacked)
Alex McLeish (1998 – 2001) Win% = 46 (Won 1st Division left to manage Rangers)
Frank Sauzee (2001 – 2002) Win% = 6 (Sacked)
Bobby Williamson (2002 – 2004) Win% = 36 (left to manage Plymouth Argyle)
Tony Mowbray (2004 – 2006) Win% = 48 (left to manage West Brom)
John Collins (2006 – 2007) Win% = 42 (League Cup 2007 resigned)
Mixu Paatalainen (2008 – 2009) Win% = 30 (Left by mutual consent)
John Hughes (2009 – 2010) Win% = 35 (Left by mutual consent)
Colin Calderwood (2010 – 2011) Win% = 24 (sacked)
Pat Fenlon (2011 – Present) Win% = 34 (current incumbent)



Petrie should have gone in 2007 when he stupidly undermined Collins by meeting with the players. His record of managing the club since then should not have been tolerated. Far too comfortable in his role and content with underperformance. Started the 2013/14 season with -15 credibility.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 10:15 AM
In terms of player budget availability versus where we have actually finished, we are under performing as a business compared to our competitors.



I would suggest that we are under performing as a football team. The business side supporting the football team is as good, if not better, than most of the others.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 10:18 AM
Petrie should have gone in 2007 when he stupidly undermined Collins by meeting with the players. His record of managing the club since then should not have been tolerated. Far too comfortable in his role and content with underperformance. Started the 2013/14 season with -15 credibility.


This again :rolleyes:

Gustavo Fring
05-08-2013, 10:22 AM
we have enough fans to fill easter road every week , that has been proven numerous times at hampden . especially the livi game where there was about 40000 and 32000 or so at the killie final

petrie has done nothing to try and tempt the majority of them to attend week in week out

you have to speculate to accumulate . pay the money to get a good manager with a proven record . give him a little cash to play with and the fans will come back like they did in the mowbray/mcleish years .

jakeshibs
05-08-2013, 10:28 AM
I would suggest that we are under performing as a football team. The business side supporting the football team is as good, if not better, than most of the others.

that is a good reply. we are safe and are giving money to the manager to support his plan, we have backed every manager with money, the only error was with JC, you should never undermine the manager.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 10:31 AM
we have enough fans to fill easter road every week , that has been proven numerous times at hampden . especially the livi game where there was about 40000 and 32000 or so at the killie final

petrie has done nothing to try and tempt the majority of them to attend week in week out

you have to speculate to accumulate . pay the money to get a good manager with a proven record . give him a little cash to play with and the fans will come back like they did in the mowbray/mcleish years .


Hearts did that. How did that go?

We have not averaged over 16k for over 40 years, and only once since 1960.

Gustavo Fring
05-08-2013, 10:33 AM
the only error was with JC, you should never undermine the manager.

that was an unforgivable error . john collins had just won us our 1st trophy in 15 years . a real legend not only of hibs but scotland as a whole and petrie stabs him squarely in the back .

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 10:38 AM
that was an unforgivable error . john collins had just won us our 1st trophy in 15 years . a real legend not only of hibs but scotland as a whole and petrie stabs him squarely in the back .

How did he do that again?

Craig_in_Prague
05-08-2013, 10:43 AM
6th should be our worse case position, not our average.
Absolutely woeful.
Pathetic football club.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 10:45 AM
I would suggest that we are under performing as a football team. The business side supporting the football team is as good, if not better, than most of the others.

I was looking at the whole thing holistically. I agree that the business term in your definitions has been better than good giving the infrastructure that has been put in place and debt management.

This showcases Petrie's strengths, his weaknesses are evidenced through the football side.

Green&White
05-08-2013, 10:46 AM
the disgraceful way sauzee was treated was to me a sign of the way the clubs hierarchy deals with the footballing side of things.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 10:48 AM
6th should be our worse case position, not our average.
Absolutely woeful.
Pathetic football club.

The size of our budget should reflect 4th as our worse case position! However, four top 4 positions in 16yrs is our fact.

greenpaper55
05-08-2013, 10:49 AM
I was looking at the whole thing holistically. I agree that the business term in your definitions has been better than good giving the infrastructure that has been put in place and debt management.

This showcases Petrie's strengths, his weaknesses are evidenced through the football side.

It's like opening the best boozer in the world and putting in crap beer , what is the point ?, we are a football club not a property empire , the stands look better when they are full !.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 10:58 AM
I was looking at the whole thing holistically. I agree that the business term in your definitions has been better than good giving the infrastructure that has been put in place and debt management.

This showcases Petrie's strengths, his weaknesses are evidenced through the football side.

Not disagreeing.

I am also not disagreeing that four finishes of fourth or better is good enough when it clearly isnt but this needs to be tempered with reality. We only managed it once in the previous sixteen years. Petrie cant get the blame for that?

vanNISHtelroy
05-08-2013, 10:59 AM
The size of our budget should reflect 4th as our worse case position! However, four top 4 positions in 16yrs is our fact.

From the outside, so could be totally wrong here. Don't think top four as worst case position works...Celtic, Rangers (for the majority of the time being discussed), then teams like yourselves, Hearts, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen if being run/managed properly would mean top six should be worst case. As well as that you will have teams that make a surprise entry in to the top six.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 11:03 AM
From the outside, so could be totally wrong here. Don't think top four as worst case position works...Celtic, Rangers (for the majority of the time being discussed), then teams like yourselves, Hearts, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen if being run/managed properly would mean top six should be worst case. As well as that you will have teams that make a surprise entry in to the top six.


Hi VN,

How are you guys feeling about the constant Yam whinging that you are about to in adminstration. They seem to counting on it.

vanNISHtelroy
05-08-2013, 11:11 AM
Hi VN,

How are you guys feeling about the constant Yam whinging that you are about to in adminstration. They seem to counting on it.

Not sure about it to be honest, vast majority of our debt is owed to the bank so don't know if we go in to admin/skip that and get liquidated if noone came in. If we were planning on admin/needing to go in to admin would be a good season to with someone else already on -15.

Hopefully MJ sells up for a "reasonable" amount and ABG (Ayrshire Business Group) comes in and takes control of the club. ABG have the interest in football in general, the club in particuar and the business acumen that is sorely lacking at the club at the present time.

ETA: I think for all his he is the one man board etc to protect others from financial liabilities and effects, MJ wouldn't be risking himself for the club so would be out if admin was imminent. The bank seem to be happy if we pay the interest on the debt, while not running up much more.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 11:11 AM
Not disagreeing.

I am also not disagreeing that four finishes of fourth or better is good enough when it clearly isnt but this needs to be tempered with reality. We only managed it once in the previous sixteen years. Petrie cant get the blame for that?

:agree: with you that Petrie can't get the blame for the time before his appointment. :wink: From the evidence it shows he's a great business man.

From the football side you can argue that we've not seen much of an improvement or decline through his tenure in terms of achievements.

We have seen and Hibs have proclaimed that we pay well in terms of managers budget. With that in mind we have under performed on the park.

The recruitment of our managers is questionable plus why don't our managers conclude contract negotiations? Should Petrie set the budget and let the manager be responsible for it? I say yes.

Plus I'd say we need a radical overview of our recruitment process.

Shore Thing
05-08-2013, 11:13 AM
Hi. Second post so go easy please :wink:

Not trying to make excuses in any way but I find it interesting that there is a marked dip in league position following each phase of major infrastructure work:
ie North and South stands built 1995 - Next three years we partake in our Grand Adventure
West built 2001 - three years plumbing the depths before regaining our rightful place in 3rd/4th
East built 2010 - Again, three years in the depths of the SPL before gradually climbing back up the league (??)


You could argue that frustrating as this seemingly perpetual underacheivement is, it is symptomatic of a well managed club living within it's means and building for the future.


However, the infrastructure is now in place. We have once again started buying players (as opposed to loanees).
There is absolutely no excuse for aiming any lower than second place in the league.
I think the board and management need to state that this is their aim this season (whether or not we acheive it).
If it is not their aim then I don't see any point in any of our new signings taking the backwards step in their careers to go through the motions of trying to finish mid-table, when we should be aiming way higher.


If the board and management cannot state this as their aim then maybe it is time for "someone else to come in".


I'll have no problem with that.

GGTTH

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 11:16 AM
Not sure about it to be honest, vast majority of our debt is owed to the bank so don't know if we go in to admin/skip that and get liquidated if noone came in. If we were planning on admin/needing to go in to admin would be a good season to with someone else already on -15.

Hopefully MJ sells up for a "reasonable" amount and ABG (Ayrshire Business Group) comes in and takes control of the club. ABG have the interest in football in general, the club in particuar and the business acumen that is sorely lacking at the club at the present time.

Your making money now though. Not a lot but its there and I would guess the major cloud on the horizon is the two factions struggling for control. I dont think admin is likely at Killie but the ownership issue makes the situation unpredictable and needs to be resolved.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 11:17 AM
From the outside, so could be totally wrong here. Don't think top four as worst case position works...Celtic, Rangers (for the majority of the time being discussed), then teams like yourselves, Hearts, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen if being run/managed properly would mean top six should be worst case. As well as that you will have teams that make a surprise entry in to the top six.

Hi VN, looking at budgets now I'd argue that 4th is worst position. We must be the 2nd or 3rd best player budget in the SPFL. I agree that previously there were more in the mix and that 6th would be more reflective in the past.

If I was an investor/shareholder in Hibs, giving the current situation (resources) I'd be expecting us to challenge for 2nd and at least get to the semi's in cups. The reality is a bit different though :greengrin

Good luck to you guys this season! (Not too much though)

Fergus52
05-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Only 4 times did we finish 4th or above, thats a failure in my book each and every time.

Even when rangers were still around, hearts were overspending and Aberdeen were still getting in fans and making it to the latter stages in Europe?

I think a fifth or sixth place finish in those circumstances isn't too bad, especially when most of our income was being spent recovering debt or the infrastructure.

GreenPJ
05-08-2013, 11:20 AM
Hi. Second post so go easy please :wink:

Not trying to make excuses in any way but I find it interesting that there is a marked dip in league position following each phase of major infrastructure work:
ie North and South stands built 1995 - Next three years we partake in our Grand Adventure
West built 2001 - three years plumbing the depths before regaining our rightful place in 3rd/4th
East built 2010 - Again, three years in the depths of the SPL before gradually climbing back up the league (??)


You could argue that frustrating as this seemingly perpetual underacheivement is, it is symptomatic of a well managed club living within it's means and building for the future.


However, the infrastructure is now in place. We have once again started buying players (as opposed to loanees).
There is absolutely no excuse for aiming any lower than second place in the league.
I think the board and management need to state that this is their aim this season (whether or not we acheive it).
If it is not their aim then I don't see any point in any of our new signings taking the backwards step in their careers to go through the motions of trying to finish mid-table, when we should be aiming way higher.


If the board and management cannot state this as their aim then maybe it is time for "someone else to come in".


I'll have no problem with that.

GGTTH

:agree:

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 11:22 AM
The recruitment of our managers is questionable plus why don't our managers conclude contract negotiations? Should Petrie set the budget and let the manager be responsible for it? I say yes.



Very few managers, if any, at the bigger clubs do the contract negotiations. Neither does the player for that matter.

According to the manager at the AGM he can spend his budget as he sees fit.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 11:32 AM
Very few managers, if any, at the bigger clubs do the contract negotiations. Neither does the player for that matter.

According to the manager at the AGM he can spend his budget as he sees fit.

We're just a wee club though :greengrin

I'm not convinced the manager can spend it as he sees fit. This is based on my gut though, no other sources.

DavieRoy
05-08-2013, 11:47 AM
No such thing as mutual consent. A manager is either sacked or they resign. Hughes was sacked.

It is the way it is spun. The club don't want to be seen to sack another manager while the managers don't want a sacking on their CV. Convenient excuse.

LioNeilMessi
05-08-2013, 11:53 AM
Even when rangers were still around, hearts were overspending and Aberdeen were still getting in fans and making it to the latter stages in Europe?

I think a fifth or sixth place finish in those circumstances isn't too bad, especially when most of our income was being spent recovering debt or the infrastructure.

Nail on the head here.

Just because we have the second biggest spl wage budget now doesn't mean we have over the past 20 years or even the past two year.

HFC 0-7
05-08-2013, 11:55 AM
Not disagreeing.

I am also not disagreeing that four finishes of fourth or better is good enough when it clearly isnt but this needs to be tempered with reality. We only managed it once in the previous sixteen years. Petrie cant get the blame for that?

I don't think anyone is blaming Petrie for the time before he was in position. The reality is that we spend more on players than some of the teams above us which is worrying. Because we were bad per Petrie does not mean that being just the same or not as bad is acceptable. If you ask anyone on the board what their goals are each season they will tell you it's finishing in the positions for Europe at latter stages of cups. They have been failing against their own goals.

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 12:25 PM
Nail on the head here.

Just because we have the second biggest spl wage budget now doesn't mean we have over the past 20 years or even the past two year.

Indeed, so given we have the biggest out with Celtc (that needs confirmed) what do you think our finish should be this season?

KWJ
05-08-2013, 12:39 PM
What if the grass isn't greener on the other side, we get rid of Petrie and get somebody in whose just as woeful on the football side and a helluva lot worse on the financial side and the communications side.

Petrie has under performed on the pitch overall, over performed with facilities and budget & has been solid on the communications. We've rarely been embarrassed like many other clubs.

I say better the devil you know and really it's not all that bad. He's due another good appointment, I don't think any of us could've done much more. The fact that he's looking at guys like Steve Clarke suggest he's not completely inept.

blackpoolhibs
05-08-2013, 12:57 PM
What if the grass isn't greener on the other side, we get rid of Petrie and get somebody in whose just as woeful on the football side and a helluva lot worse on the financial side and the communications side.

Petrie has under performed on the pitch overall, over performed with facilities and budget & has been solid on the communications. We've rarely been embarrassed like many other clubs.

I say better the devil you know and really it's not all that bad. He's due another good appointment, I don't think any of us could've done much more. The fact that he's looking at guys like Steve Clarke suggest he's not completely inept.

What if it is, god forbid we get someone in who can actually pick a manager, or lead us from the top. He's had his chance and failed, but according to you, you are frightened of a Hearts scenario occurring at Hibs.

You and Fenlon would be great together, both frightened of your own shadow?

Why is it we have to fail should someone else control our club, is that the only outcome?

Viva_Palmeiras
05-08-2013, 01:42 PM
the disgraceful way sauzee was treated was to me a sign of the way the clubs hierarchy deals with the footballing side of things.

So MacPherson is not on your Christmas card list then...?
Just one comment on the "stats". At what point is Rod accountable for Hibs results joining the board or becoming Chairman? Maybe you could look at both scenarios.

Gustavo Fring
05-08-2013, 01:53 PM
ontop of his failings on the football front , the guy is a plum

everytime i see him on tv i just want to punch him in the face , bein all smug about the jambos goin into administration - thats for the fans to engage in . the chairman should be professional and keep his smug comments to himself and certainly not be airing them infront of a tv camera

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 01:56 PM
Indeed, so given we have the biggest out with Celtc (that needs confirmed) what do you think our finish should be this season?

I would suspect Aberdeen are spending more than us.

Hibernia&Alba
05-08-2013, 01:58 PM
The size of our budget should reflect 4th as our worse case position! However, four top 4 positions in 16yrs is our fact.


True. We must be biggest underachievers in Scottish football in terms of league position. For a club of Hibs' size in the Scottish game, those league positions over the years are just not good enough. Something is fundamentally wrong.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 02:05 PM
I don't think anyone is blaming Petrie for the time before he was in position. The reality is that we spend more on players than some of the teams above us which is worrying. Because we were bad per Petrie does not mean that being just the same or not as bad is acceptable. If you ask anyone on the board what their goals are each season they will tell you it's finishing in the positions for Europe at latter stages of cups. They have been failing against their own goals.

Nothing wrong with any of that.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 02:14 PM
The size of our budget should reflect 4th as our worse case position! However, four top 4 positions in 16yrs is our fact.

Also in the interest of accuracy it should be pointed out that Aberdeen usually spend more than us as well.

Onion
05-08-2013, 02:14 PM
What if the grass isn't greener on the other side, we get rid of Petrie and get somebody in whose just as woeful on the football side and a helluva lot worse on the financial side and the communications side.

Petrie has under performed on the pitch overall, over performed with facilities and budget & has been solid on the communications. We've rarely been embarrassed like many other clubs.

I say better the devil you know and really it's not all that bad. He's due another good appointment, I don't think any of us could've done much more. The fact that he's looking at guys like Steve Clarke suggest he's not completely inept.

If there was a prize for the worst reason yet for not changing things.... :greengrin Petrie has done a remarkable financial job for Hibernian FC and has been rightly lauded for the way he attracted top prices for some of our young players and the infrastructure investment. But that's where it ends. He has dined out on that for far too long.

Our record of hiring and firing the most important person in the football club (the manager) is lamentable; not bad, totally unacceptable. But you're advocating more of the same on the basis of law of averages :confused:

After the last 6 years, Petrie should be nowhere near making football decisions. He should be locked in a cupboard with a calculator and restricted to being a financial consultant to the club. Let others, with a proper appreciation of football matters make the key decisions. But, STF seems happy to play Petrie out of position - which seems to be catching on.

Its amazing what fans will put up with, given a little hope - which a fresh approach, a new manager, a new outlook would bring. With Fenlon in charge of the team, and Petrie in charge of picking managers and setting standards, the future for Hibs looks bleak.

The Voice Of Reason
05-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Guys - after the Calderwood debacle I seem to remember that it was made quite clear by hibs that Petrie would not be involved in the selection process for the next manager ?!?!

Is that my mind playing tricks with me?

Liberal Hibby
05-08-2013, 02:40 PM
ontop of his failings on the football front , the guy is a plum

everytime i see him on tv i just want to punch him in the face , bein all smug about the jambos goin into administration - thats for the fans to engage in . the chairman should be professional and keep his smug comments to himself and certainly not be airing them infront of a tv camera

The truth hurting Paco?

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 02:46 PM
Also in the interest of accuracy it should be pointed out that Aberdeen usually spend more than us as well.

I thought we've been outspending Aberdeen recently (last 3-4yrs?) but don't have their figures so could easily be wrong!

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 02:56 PM
According to the Guardian we were paying more, on average (2012 stats) than:

Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Johnston, Hamilton

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/data...a-madrid-wages

KeithTheHibby
05-08-2013, 03:09 PM
ontop of his failings on the football front , the guy is a plum

everytime i see him on tv i just want to punch him in the face , bein all smug about the jambos goin into administration - thats for the fans to engage in . the chairman should be professional and keep his smug comments to himself and certainly not be airing them infront of a tv camera

Utter nonsense. Feel free to give RP a hard time about being tight or crap at picking his managers but to question his professionalism when asked about Hearts is total rubbish.

Hibercelona
05-08-2013, 03:30 PM
There's obviously something rank rotten at the club that prevents us from being where we should be as a club. We need to look at the people who have been at the club throughout this whole mess. Instead of always changing and replacing the people who have just arrived here.

I don't believe for a second that it's just down to faulty players and managers every single time. I believe that there must be other negative influences that have a negative impact on any player or manager we bring in, regardless of who they are.

HFC 0-7
05-08-2013, 04:37 PM
ontop of his failings on the football front , the guy is a plum

everytime i see him on tv i just want to punch him in the face , bein all smug about the jambos goin into administration - thats for the fans to engage in . the chairman should be professional and keep his smug comments to himself and certainly not be airing them infront of a tv camera

Behave! Punch him in the face? I don't think he has been that smug, however, it would be difficult not to take a bit of happiness out of hearts situation. Hearts have been overspending for years and Petrie has been pressured by the fans to spend big because of it. He resisted it and took the flack to keep hibs steady debt wise, now, he can see that it was the correct decision. Fwiw I think Petrie has taken the club as far as he can and its time for someone else, however, if Petrie is part ans parcel of farmer owning hibs then Petrie can stay IMO. We need someone like farmer in case the club needs a cash injection from time to time in the future. I can't see fan ownership working in scotland as there will be times when extra cash is needed fast and they wnt get that in a fan ownership situation unless a couple of fans are stinking rich.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 05:28 PM
According to the Guardian we were paying more, on average (2012 stats) than:

Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Johnston, Hamilton

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/data...a-madrid-wages


In nine out the last ten seasons Aberdeen have spent more on wages than Hibs. The exception is 2009-2010 when Hibs spent £4.8m and Aberdeen £4.6m. Season 2011-2012 (the last season anybody has figures for) Aberdeen spent £5m as opposed to Hibs £4.1m.
Over the ten season period Aberdeen spent £50.3m on wages as opposed to Hibs £41.4m.

These are the figures from the relevant accounts. Your link dosent work for me but if its the Guardian wage list that has Hibs in 229th place and Aberdeen in 230th the figures are taken from season 2009-2010 and if you look at the "position last year" column it has Aberdeen at 225th and Hibs at 228th.

Sammy7nil
05-08-2013, 05:55 PM
How did he do that again?

They won 3 Scottish Cups and pipped one of the OF for 2nd.

With an aggregate score of 9 - 1 in 2 meetings with us at hampden.

Captain Trips
05-08-2013, 06:17 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8620628/Colin-Calderwood-admits-his-future-is-in-Hibernian-chairman-Rod-Petries-hands.html

This is Petries finest stat not clearing this mans desk as soon as any interest, how RP thought he was right man was beyond any bad signing or bad set of tactics. This affair should have seen him walk and it was nothing short of a disgrace he stayed after sacking him. RP cost Hibs money solely down to him.

RP over last few years makes Fenlon look like he knows what he is doing.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 06:18 PM
They won 3 Scottish Cups and pipped one of the OF for 2nd.

With an aggregate score of 9 - 1 in 2 meetings with us at hampden.

You are aware they are bust?

Hibby Kay-Yay
05-08-2013, 06:21 PM
In nine out the last ten seasons Aberdeen have spent more on wages than Hibs. The exception is 2009-2010 when Hibs spent £4.8m and Aberdeen £4.6m. Season 2011-2012 (the last season anybody has figures for) Aberdeen spent £5m as opposed to Hibs £4.1m.
Over the ten season period Aberdeen spent £50.3m on wages as opposed to Hibs £41.4m.

These are the figures from the relevant accounts. Your link dosent work for me but if its the Guardian wage list that has Hibs in 229th place and Aberdeen in 230th the figures are taken from season 2009-2010 and if you look at the "position last year" column it has Aberdeen at 225th and Hibs at 228th.

Fair play, can't argue with the facts :aok: thanks for sharing :agree:

Sammy7nil
05-08-2013, 06:26 PM
You are aware they are bust?

Fully aware :greengrin

However I will most likely go to my grave as my father did not seinng Hibs lift the cup
Our record against them over the last 25 years is laughable.

Lets see where they are in 5 years and decide if they got away with robbery from every culb in Scotland.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 06:28 PM
Fully aware :greengrin

However I will most likely go to my grave as my father did not seinng Hibs lift the cup
Our record against them over the last 25 years is laughable.

Lets see where they are in 5 years and decide if they got away with robbery from every culb in Scotland.


Would you swap positions with them?

Sammy7nil
05-08-2013, 06:36 PM
Would you swap positions with them?

Difficult question as I say we have to see where they are in 5 years.
If Hibs were in as much financial trouble as Hearts I would not stop supporting them. If Hibs were in the East of Scotland league I would still be a Hibby and proud of it.

rcarter1
05-08-2013, 06:36 PM
Hi. Second post so go easy please :wink:

Not trying to make excuses in any way but I find it interesting that there is a marked dip in league position following each phase of major infrastructure work:
ie North and South stands built 1995 - Next three years we partake in our Grand Adventure
West built 2001 - three years plumbing the depths before regaining our rightful place in 3rd/4th
East built 2010 - Again, three years in the depths of the SPL before gradually climbing back up the league (??)


You could argue that frustrating as this seemingly perpetual underacheivement is, it is symptomatic of a well managed club living within it's means and building for the future.


However, the infrastructure is now in place. We have once again started buying players (as opposed to loanees).
There is absolutely no excuse for aiming any lower than second place in the league.
I think the board and management need to state that this is their aim this season (whether or not we acheive it).
If it is not their aim then I don't see any point in any of our new signings taking the backwards step in their careers to go through the motions of trying to finish mid-table, when we should be aiming way higher.


If the board and management cannot state this as their aim then maybe it is time for "someone else to come in".


I'll have no problem with that.

GGTTH

Good post. I think an average of 6th is not good enough, but if it has been achieved while also building a stadium, then its not so bad really.
However, I think that the principle reason for being able to afford the stadium and not having an average closer to 7th/8th, is down to the miracle that was Brown/Thomson/Riordan/O'Connor/Whitaker/Fletcher.

I would be surprised if Mr Petrie strategically and consciously engineered the conditions for those players to have emerged all together. I.e. I think he got lucky.

Kaiser1962
05-08-2013, 07:07 PM
Difficult question as I say we have to see where they are in 5 years.
If Hibs were in as much financial trouble as Hearts I would not stop supporting them. If Hibs were in the East of Scotland league I would still be a Hibby and proud of it.

If it was all about winning everybody would support Celtic.

Sammy7nil
05-08-2013, 08:50 PM
If it was all about winning everybody would support Celtic.

Correct no one supports Hibs for the glory, it however be good to punch to our weight once every thirty to forty years

Motherwell Hearts (3) Dundee Utd (2) Aberdeen (3) all in recent times prove it should not be beyond Hibs

KWJ
06-08-2013, 12:25 AM
If there was a prize for the worst reason yet for not changing things.... :greengrin Petrie has done a remarkable financial job for Hibernian FC and has been rightly lauded for the way he attracted top prices for some of our young players and the infrastructure investment. But that's where it ends. He has dined out on that for far too long.

Our record of hiring and firing the most important person in the football club (the manager) is lamentable; not bad, totally unacceptable. But you're advocating more of the same on the basis of law of averages :confused:

After the last 6 years, Petrie should be nowhere near making football decisions. He should be locked in a cupboard with a calculator and restricted to being a financial consultant to the club. Let others, with a proper appreciation of football matters make the key decisions. But, STF seems happy to play Petrie out of position - which seems to be catching on.

Its amazing what fans will put up with, given a little hope - which a fresh approach, a new manager, a new outlook would bring. With Fenlon in charge of the team, and Petrie in charge of picking managers and setting standards, the future for Hibs looks bleak.

What better chairmen are there going around? St.J's Geoff Brown done a great job but it's still early days on his son's reign. Motherwell have Leanne Dempster and have so far done very well with the appointment of Stuart McCall, Craig Brown was hardly a disaster either but it's still a little early to judge against RP.

Some of the decisions haven't been ideal but most have been backed by the fans, fortunately he rarely acts purely on fan pressure as we are such a fickle bunch and can turn rather quickly.

If it were only down to picking managers I don't think RP has even done all that badly. With the solid footing and the drastic improvements in facilities throughout his time here I think we're pretty lucky to have him in all honesty.

My biggest concern is what's the matter with us that somebody like Mixu didn't really work here, are we that soft touch throughout and what is the core of it? It could be Petrie, but I'm slightly more inclined to think it's the fans and what it's like to play against us at Easter Road in front of a half full/empty stadium. We are there to be rattled. Unfortunately, shy on allowing near free entry, I don't know how we can solve it so that we can turn our new-look ER into our favour. A stronger mentality most likely, and I actually think that that's what Fenlon is trying to bring. Unfortunately he's sacrificing quality and goals in his attempt to bring it.

Speedy
06-08-2013, 12:52 AM
Hearts did that. How did that go?

We have not averaged over 16k for over 40 years, and only once since 1960.

Arguably very well. Not saying it's my opinion but some people will argue a case for it.


No such thing as mutual consent. A manager is either sacked or they resign. Hughes was sacked.

It is the way it is spun. The club don't want to be seen to sack another manager while the managers don't want a sacking on their CV. Convenient excuse.

Of course there is, you've just explained why. I would expect the manager would also leave with less of a fee than if his contract was terminated.

Hibs90
06-08-2013, 03:56 AM
There's obviously something rank rotten at the club that prevents us from being where we should be as a club. We need to look at the people who have been at the club throughout this whole mess.

The fans.

sahib
06-08-2013, 04:01 AM
The fans.

:agree: They need a rocket up them! :greengrin

The Falcon
06-08-2013, 05:40 AM
Arguably very well. Not saying it's my opinion but some people will argue a case for it.


I think that only Yams in denial would argue that. £60m for two cups a success? And they are now on life support.

The Falcon
06-08-2013, 05:50 AM
Correct no one supports Hibs for the glory, it however be good to punch to our weight once every thirty to forty years

Motherwell Hearts (3) Dundee Utd (2) Aberdeen (3) all in recent times prove it should not be beyond Hibs

You could also argue that having spent £60m + should mean the League Cup shouldnt be beyond Hearts. Aberdeen or Motherwell havent won a trophy in the last 16 years, which is what this thread is about while United have won one trophy in that period.

Hibby Kay-Yay
06-08-2013, 09:10 AM
Having reflected on the stats and compared them to how we were prior to Petrie joining Hibs I have come to this conclussion:

As a business we are in a much stronger position

As a football club we are pretty much the same in terms of league placings and cups

We have nothing but opportunity in front of us to get more football success (no Rangers RIP, Hearts are, well, goosed) and our finances allow us to be one of the top payers in the league.

The structure's there for a football team to flourish. Carpe Diem

blackpoolhibs
06-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Having reflected on the stats and compared them to how we were prior to Petrie joining Hibs I have come to this conclussion:

As a business we are in a much stronger position

As a football club we are pretty much the same in terms of league placings and cups

We have nothing but opportunity in front of us to get more football success (no Rangers RIP, Hearts are, well, goosed) and our finances allow us to be one of the top payers in the league.

The structure's there for a football team to flourish. Carpe Diem


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=273eSvOwpKk

Hibby Kay-Yay
06-08-2013, 10:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=273eSvOwpKk

:agree:

judas
06-08-2013, 07:02 PM
Rod Petrie and Hibs

Career (1996 – Present)

Advisor to STF 1991 (During Hearts takeover bid)
Appointed to board 1996
Managing Director 1997
Chairman 2004

Infrastructure

West Stand, Famous Five, South, East Stand, East Mains Training Centre

Achievements

1999 – First Division Champions
2007 – Scottish League Cup winners (Runners up 2004)
Qualification for Europe (2013, 2010, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001,

League placing

1996 – 9th
1997 – 10th
1998 – 1st Division Champions
1999 – 6th
2000 – 3rd
2001 – 10th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 8th
2004 – 3rd
2005 – 4th
2006 - 6th
2007 – 6th
2008 – 6th
2009 – 4th
2010 – 10th
2011 – 11th
2012 – 7th
Average placing – 6th

UEFA Ranking

1996 – 173
2013 – 267

Managers

Jim Duffy (1996 – 1998) Win% = 20 (Sacked)
Alex McLeish (1998 – 2001) Win% = 46 (Won 1st Division left to manage Rangers)
Frank Sauzee (2001 – 2002) Win% = 6 (Sacked)
Bobby Williamson (2002 – 2004) Win% = 36 (left to manage Plymouth Argyle)
Tony Mowbray (2004 – 2006) Win% = 48 (left to manage West Brom)
John Collins (2006 – 2007) Win% = 42 (League Cup 2007 resigned)
Mixu Paatalainen (2008 – 2009) Win% = 30 (Left by mutual consent)
John Hughes (2009 – 2010) Win% = 35 (Left by mutual consent)
Colin Calderwood (2010 – 2011) Win% = 24 (sacked)
Pat Fenlon (2011 – Present) Win% = 34 (current incumbent)

Very interesting stats, much appreciated, but Div 1 Champions is not an 'achievement'.

RoYO!
06-08-2013, 07:32 PM
6th should be our worse case position, not our average.
Absolutely woeful.
Pathetic football club.

Steady mate....

WestEndHibee
06-08-2013, 07:42 PM
Steady mate....
:greengrin

RIP
08-08-2013, 05:40 PM
What better chairmen are there going around? St.J's Geoff Brown done a great job but it's still early days on his son's reign. Motherwell have Leanne Dempster and have so far done very well with the appointment of Stuart McCall, Craig Brown was hardly a disaster either but it's still a little early to judge against RP.

Some of the decisions haven't been ideal but most have been backed by the fans, fortunately he rarely acts purely on fan pressure as we are such a fickle bunch and can turn rather quickly.

If it were only down to picking managers I don't think RP has even done all that badly. With the solid footing and the drastic improvements in facilities throughout his time here I think we're pretty lucky to have him in all honesty.

Just back from the LWT meeting with increasing respect for the commercial team and the board members who showed up. It was disappointing that Rod continiues to avoid the opportunity to talk with supporters. It may be just his leadership style but it's at odds with the way most companies are run from the top.

The media acknowledge that Farmer and Petrie cleared a debt mountain and built good infrastructure. From there it's up to the person at the head of the club to build a strong performance culture, vision and winning mentality. The coach then fits the club, not vice versa. The Swindon, Schalke and Stoke models.

I wrote this recently on another thread but it's relevant here. Businesses are best run by individuals with a tough personality, who set high standards and have a strong track record in running a successful business. At St Johnstone Geoff Brown had a fantastic track record in business and has lifted St J's from the lower leagues to Europe. At Ross County Roy McGregor runs a £300 million pound energy business and the Staggies have come up from the Highland Leagues to the top 4 of the SPL. Motherwell recruited Leann Dempster, an expert in business restructure who has improved Well on and off the park, aiming to create a sustainable business model through community ownership. Kenny Cameron at Inverness Caley has a strong track record in building businesses in the field of entertainment and this year ICT were up there at the top of the league for most of the campaign.

These SPL rivals don't have fancy players or the wonderful facilities that Tom Farmer and Rod have given Hibs. They do though have a strong bond with their managers, players and speak frequently with club supporters. Their businesses are well led by successful individuals for whom hard work, 110% application and a winning mentality mean everything in their business lives and at their football club. Until we have that type of individual, vision and culture here at Hibs, Hibernian FC as a business will continue to underachieve

Business is not about having the tools, it's what you do with the tools that matters. With the tools we have, Hibs under Rod have consistently underperformed. I have a huge amount of respect for the guy for what he's done for us but if he was a first team coach he would have been out the door years ago. I'm wondering if we are nearing the time for him to go off to the SPL with our blessing and a place in the Hibernian Hall of Fame. Better to hand over the reigns now than take us down a division?

Kaiser1962
08-08-2013, 06:11 PM
So do you think the clubs you have mentioned are a) more successful than Hibs on the field of play; and b) run better than Hibs off it ?


Just back from the LWT meeting with increasing respect for the commercial team and the board members who showed up. It was disappointing that Rod continiues to avoid the opportunity to talk with supporters. It may be just his leadership style but it's at odds with the way most companies are run from the top.

The media acknowledge that Farmer and Petrie cleared a debt mountain and built good infrastructure. From there it's up to the person at the head of the club to build a strong performance culture, vision and winning mentality. The coach then fits the club, not vice versa. The Swindon, Schalke and Stoke models.

I wrote this recently on another thread but it's relevant here. Businesses are best run by individuals with a tough personality, who set high standards and have a strong track record in running a successful business. At St Johnstone Geoff Brown had a fantastic track record in business and has lifted St J's from the lower leagues to Europe. At Ross County Roy McGregor runs a £300 million pound energy business and the Staggies have come up from the Highland Leagues to the top 4 of the SPL. Motherwell recruited Leann Dempster, an expert in business restructure who has improved Well on and off the park, aiming to create a sustainable business model through community ownership. Kenny Cameron at Inverness Caley has a strong track record in building businesses in the field of entertainment and this year ICT were up there at the top of the league for most of the campaign.

These SPL rivals don't have fancy players or the wonderful facilities that Tom Farmer and Rod have given Hibs. They do though have a strong bond with their managers, players and speak frequently with club supporters. Their businesses are well led by successful individuals for whom hard work, 110% application and a winning mentality mean everything in their business lives and at their football club. Until we have that type of individual, vision and culture here at Hibs, Hibernian FC as a business will continue to underachieve

Business is not about having the tools, it's what you do with the tools that matters. With the tools we have Hibs under Rod has consistently underperformed. I have a huge amount of respect for the guy for what he's done for us but if he was a first team coach he would have been out the door years ago. I'm wondering if we are nearing the time for him to go off to the SPL with our blessing and place in the Hall of Fame. Better to hand over the reigns now than take us down a division?

tamig
08-08-2013, 06:32 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8620628/Colin-Calderwood-admits-his-future-is-in-Hibernian-chairman-Rod-Petries-hands.html

This is Petries finest stat not clearing this mans desk as soon as any interest, how RP thought he was right man was beyond any bad signing or bad set of tactics. This affair should have seen him walk and it was nothing short of a disgrace he stayed after sacking him. RP cost Hibs money solely down to him.

RP over last few years makes Fenlon look like he knows what he is doing.
With the benefit of hinsight yes. However, had we had a great season after that farcical episode Im sure RP would have been hailed a hero for retaining Calderwood. Just think your view needs a bit of balance.

Captain Trips
09-08-2013, 12:27 AM
With the benefit of hinsight yes. However, had we had a great season after that farcical episode Im sure RP would have been hailed a hero for retaining Calderwood. Just think your view needs a bit of balance.

How does it need balance? you can say that in regards of any sacking that Hughes, Mixu or Sauzee could have won 20 games in a row if not sacked.

My thoughts on any manager are based on what I have seen and what is likely to follow based on that. I found CC to be up until that summer poor and felt he should go totally based on what I had seen thus far and that for me is best indicator to what was ahead, I saw that but RP felt different, however 3 months later nothing had changed like many on here had thought and RP then got rid.

How can you suggest my view needs balance with what you say in bold? What indications were there that what you suggest "might" occur? CC had up until his sacking showed no signs that a "great season" was ahead.

So do you not sack managers just incase you are sacking them one game before they turn it? Truth is you never know what a manager will do so decisions are made on what they have done to that point and how that bodes for future, suggesting they might have a great season isnt bringing balance into it at all.

There was no hindsight I wanted him to be allowed to leave if one of the clubs wanted him in summer to be an assistant manager, I would have been quite happy for Hibs to take the "risk" in letting CC leave and it not being a mistake that CC was going to be good.

RIP
09-08-2013, 02:30 PM
So do you think the clubs you have mentioned are a) more successful than Hibs on the field of play; and b) run better than Hibs off it ?

Yes

The clubs mentioned are better run, more united, have better relationships between board and fans, work harder and have all finshed above Hibs where they have been in the SPL since 2009. Our balance sheet may be better than some of these teams but if that's our sole criteria of success then we have only suceeeded as a nameless business but failed as a football club.

Supporters are the ultimate custodians of a football club. We can either sit back and moan or demand improvement. Hibs supporters should never accept years of underachievement as acceptable. Our club deserves better.

Hibby Kay-Yay
09-08-2013, 02:44 PM
Yes

The clubs mentioned are better run, more united, have better relationships between board and fans, work harder and have all finshed above Hibs where they have been in the SPL since 2009. Our balance sheet may be better than some of these teams but if that's our sole criteria of success then we have failed as a football club.

Supporters are the ultimate custodians of a football club. We can either sit back and moan or demand improvement. Hibs supporters should never accept years of underachievement as acceptable. Our club deserves better.

Hi Gogs, one thing the stats does show is that as a football club, we have pretty much had the same level of performance whilst upgrading our infrastructure. I don't see St J, Motherwell, ICT having the same supporter base as what we do. We have also won trophies which is more than these clubs so perhaps Rod has been performing well both on and off the pitch.

If the club tried to perform to supporter expectations then we'd be on the same boat as our neighbours. Given the demise of Scottish football (Hearts & Rangers) we are now stronger financially in the league and should be able to get closer to supporter expectations. A lot of that comes down to the manager.

Petrie has created an environment for a manager to perform. To say he (Petrie) has underachieved is not supported by the facts.

We do have a great opportunity though for more success.

Makaveli
09-08-2013, 03:08 PM
Hi Gogs, one thing the stats does show is that as a football club, we have pretty much had the same level of performance whilst upgrading our infrastructure. I don't see St J, Motherwell, ICT having the same supporter base as what we do. We have also won trophies which is more than these clubs so perhaps Rod has been performing well both on and off the pitch.

If the club tried to perform to supporter expectations then we'd be on the same boat as our neighbours. Given the demise of Scottish football (Hearts & Rangers) we are now stronger financially in the league and should be able to get closer to supporter expectations. A lot of that comes down to the manager.

Petrie has created an environment for a manager to perform. To say he (Petrie) has underachieved is not supported by the facts.

We do have a great opportunity though for more success.

I don't think that's a fair thing to say.

Hearts were trying to win the Champions League (:tee hee:) with the money they were throwing around. Most Hibs fans would be happy with regularly competing for 2nd/3rd place in a league with no Huns. To me that's a reasonable expectation. As you say it comes down to the manager, who has been backed with some good signings.

The Falcon
09-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Supporters are the ultimate custodians of a football club. We can either sit back and moan or demand improvement. Hibs supporters should never accept years of underachievement as acceptable. Our club deserves better.

I don't think football fans have been "custodians" of their clubs for a long time now. There are exceptions but Hibs aren't one of them. We are supporters and our actions may be able to influence events but custodians? Who are you going to "demand improvement" from if we are the ultimate custodians?

The Falcon
09-08-2013, 05:33 PM
Arguably very well.

They are facing liquidation. The Lithuanian state is £70m down on the deal. There is an investigation of fraud being carried out in Lithuania. They have robbed their own charity and bumped the poppy fund. An arrest warrant has been issued for Vlad (who is, by most accounts, in hiding) and they are starting the season with a 15 point penalty and a registration embargo which will remain whilst they are in administration. They await further punishment for non payment of wages.

In what way could it be viewed that the Vlad Experiment went "arguably very well" ?

Onion
09-08-2013, 05:49 PM
They are facing liquidation. The Lithuanian state is £70m down on the deal. There is an investigation of fraud being carried out in Lithuania. They have robbed their own charity and bumped the poppy fund. An arrest warrant has been issued for Vlad (who is, by most accounts, in hiding) and they are starting the season with a 15 point penalty and a registration embargo which will remain whilst they are in administration. They await further punishment for non payment of wages.

In what way could it be viewed that the Vlad Experiment went "arguably very well" ?

Only time will tell whether the Vlad era was a success for HMFC. At the moment things look pretty bleak for them, but we're still speculating about the end game. To this point, most Hearts fans will have said the last 7 years has been a roaring success on the field. They may avoid liquidation, recover the -15 points, find a new owner/investment and go on to thrive after a season or two - we just do not know. If that happens then they will say it was all worth it. On the other hand, they could get relegated, liquidated, lose their ground and languish in the lower leagues for the next decade :greengrin

The Falcon
09-08-2013, 06:07 PM
Only time will tell whether the Vlad era was a success for HMFC.


Thats a bit like jumping of a cliff and claiming it all went swimmingly up until the bit when you hit the ground. :greengrin

Kaiser1962
09-08-2013, 07:13 PM
Yes

The clubs mentioned are better run, more united, have better relationships between board and fans, work harder and have all finshed above Hibs where they have been in the SPL since 2009. Our balance sheet may be better than some of these teams but if that's our sole criteria of success then we have only suceeeded as a nameless business but failed as a football club.

Supporters are the ultimate custodians of a football club. We can either sit back and moan or demand improvement. Hibs supporters should never accept years of underachievement as acceptable. Our club deserves better.

Motherwell?

ryan cass
10-08-2013, 07:44 AM
an accountant making football decisions is a major problem for me, we need proper football people appointing the correct people at the club and then we will see a difference moving forward. For me RP should have stepped aside a long time ago. If i wanted to build a house for example, i wouln't call on an accountant, i would want a builder!!! exact same at a football club you need the right people in place making important CORRECT decisions!!

If Hibs decided to get a accountant to manage the 1st team or somone with no football background there would be and uproar! for me its on the same par.

On Fenlon, he's out his depth by a country mile and i think RP has knew for a while now.

We need change NOW before its too late…or is it too late? :confused:

Peevemor
10-08-2013, 08:19 AM
an accountant making football decisions is a major problem for me, we need proper football people appointing the correct people at the club and then we will see a difference moving forward.

What football decisions does RP make and what are "proper football people"? How long has RP been at Hibs? Maybe he knows a thing or two.


For me RP should have stepped aside a long time ago. If i wanted to build a house for example, i wouln't call on an accountant, i would want a builder!!! exact same at a football club you need the right people in place making important CORRECT decisions!!

The big construction companies are mostly run by accountants of on for or another.


If Hibs decided to get a accountant to manage the 1st team or somone with no football background there would be and uproar! for me its on the same par.

On Fenlon, he's out his depth by a country mile and i think RP has knew for a while now.

We need change NOW before its too late…or is it too late? :confused:

Who's in charge at other clubs? Are they proper football people?

Silky
10-08-2013, 08:26 AM
Looking at the stats, I agree that an average position of 6th is poor. However, if we keep going through managers like we have, are we really going to do any better? The amount of different managers we've had in that time is a disgrace and its no wonder we are where we are. Nobody is getting a chance to build a team and get a proper run at it! Look at ICT, an established Premiership side now. Finished above us and Butcher's been there for years!

ryan cass
10-08-2013, 08:52 AM
What football decisions does RP make and what are "proper football people"? How long has RP been at Hibs? Maybe he knows a thing or two.



The big construction companies are mostly run by accountants of on for or another.



Who's in charge at other clubs? Are they proper football people?

who cares about other clubs?? we want the best for HFC and if you are happy with whats been happening for the last few years you are obviously not a football person...

Kaiser1962
10-08-2013, 08:53 AM
who cares about other clubs?? we want the best for HFC and if you are happy with whats been happening for the last few years you are obviously not a football person...

So who are you comparing us to?

ryan cass
10-08-2013, 08:56 AM
…and stop making excuses for RP and his woeful decisions!!

ryan cass
10-08-2013, 08:57 AM
So who are you comparing us to?

ask peevemor…its in his quote

Albion Hibs
10-08-2013, 09:18 AM
Looking at the stats I would suggest the only one that is relevant relates to the infrastructure and of course unlike our noisy neighbours we are not circling the drains of extinction, in which case i feel Petrie has done a great job during his time. I have always been a Petrie supporter the ony crit I have is should have emptied fenlon a long time ago.

Kaiser1962
10-08-2013, 09:27 AM
ask peevemor…its in his quote

I would but he's not a football person....obviously.

ryan cass
10-08-2013, 09:58 AM
I would but he's not a football person....obviously.

HFC have always been a team (up until recently) who try and play the correct Way…passing football with great young talent coming through.

I think this has been lacking fr a long time and tht is down RP and his non-footballing knowledge.

Kaiser1962
10-08-2013, 02:07 PM
HFC have always been a team (up until recently) who try and play the correct Way…passing football with great young talent coming through.

I think this has been lacking fr a long time and tht is down RP and his non-footballing knowledge.

How "recently" did this change as Petries been there a wee while now.

greenlex
10-08-2013, 08:03 PM
an accountant making football decisions is a major problem for me, we need proper football people appointing the correct people at the club and then we will see a difference moving forward. For me RP should have stepped aside a long time ago. If i wanted to build a house for example, i wouln't call on an accountant, i would want a builder!!! exact same at a football club you need the right people in place making important CORRECT decisions!!

If Hibs decided to get a accountant to manage the 1st team or somone with no football background there would be and uproar! for me its on the same par.

On Fenlon, he's out his depth by a country mile and i think RP has knew for a while now.

We need change NOW before its too late…or is it too late? :confused:

Why was Fenlon a bad appointment? Even a "football man" wouldnt dis that managerial career up till the Hibs appointment.

He should be given more time not the sack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Fenlon