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JCHibby
02-08-2013, 07:32 AM
3rd Place as a minimum.

I look at our squad and we have by far a good enough squad to be sitting at least 3rd in this league this year. Anything below that will be a failure in my eyes, and I hope this is the kind of attitude and mentality that is now being installed within the dressing room.

Hard work, commitment and the ability to speed up play and act with urgency are vital this year.

As fans we have been kicked so many times but will continue to back this team as normal, time for a huge turnaround from the club itself.

Lets get it done

Andy74
02-08-2013, 07:33 AM
Top 4 and I'd say we are improving.

Scouse Hibee
02-08-2013, 07:33 AM
Probably Hanlon or Stevenson.............................oops sorry I thought the title meant something else :greengrin

PeterboroHibee
02-08-2013, 07:37 AM
I dont think we have a hope of finishing third. If we can get some organization in the team then we should finish around mid-table, but against the quicker/trickier teams I think we will get taken to the cleaners. A couple of good signings and I may feel differently, but thats my opinion about where we are right now.

lord bunberry
02-08-2013, 07:40 AM
I dont think we have a hope of finishing third. If we can get some organization in the team then we should finish around mid-table, but against the quicker/trickier teams I think we will get taken to the cleaners. A couple of good signings and I may feel differently, but thats my opinion about where we are right now.

That won't be good enough for me, we need to be top 4 and playing a style of football that doesn't bore people to death, anything else and fenlons contract shouldn't be renewed.

hibbymikey
02-08-2013, 07:40 AM
Realistically I think we have to look at top 6 being the minimum target based on the last few seasons.
A good target would be 5th/4th
I'd be hoping for third, but at this point I think we have to look at that as a stretch goal.

Scouse Hibee
02-08-2013, 07:41 AM
Surely the target from day one should be to win the league however unlikely that is, aspire to be first not second, third or even worse.

Del Boy
02-08-2013, 07:44 AM
Avoid relegation.

;-)

Jones28
02-08-2013, 07:45 AM
Top 4. Anything else is failure and should result in no contract renewal.

PeterboroHibee
02-08-2013, 07:47 AM
That won't be good enough for me, we need to be top 4 and playing a style of football that doesn't bore people to death, anything else and fenlons contract shouldn't be renewed.

I agree with you, especially when the league isnt all that great, but its just how I rate our chances.

Hibbyradge
02-08-2013, 07:56 AM
Progress will be evident if we make the top 6, but I'm not pinning my hopes on any particular league position.

In a league as tight as ours (3 points separated the 3rd to 5th teams) too many factors outside our control can influence that (e.g. injuries, disallowed goals, non-penalties) so I'm not going to declare any particular finishing place as failure.

Just give me a team which looks like it knows what its doing. One which competes in every game from the start of the season till the end and which is in the mix for the Euro places come the split.

I want to see our midfield control games and use skill and guile to create opportunities for our strikers.

Anyone demanding 2nd or third as a minimum, clearly weren't at the Malmo game!

JCHibby
02-08-2013, 07:56 AM
I agree with you, especially when the league isnt all that great, but its just how I rate our chances.

Correct, we accept failure to easily and this has to stop, by we I mean the club not the fans! Top 3 as a minimum anything less is not acceptable in this piss poor league.

Pretty Boy
02-08-2013, 08:01 AM
A style of football that involves passes along the ground with purpose, movement on an off the ball, a quick tempo, a couple of players who get me off my seat when they have the ball and run at a player and just generally a style of play that doesn't have me thinking Bobby Williamson wasn't so bad after all.

JustSimplyHibs
02-08-2013, 08:06 AM
Surely the target from day one should be to win the league however unlikely that is, aspire to be first not second, third or even worse.

:top marks

With the physical pressence of our squad now being on par with Selick i would like to see us push on. Only thing missing is that consistent creative player that can unlock teams (maybe Collins) although, our midfield does have some intelligence in the likes of Thomson, Craig, Harris, OTJ, players that can find that final killer ball.

I would hope that our ambition is to secretly challenge. If we do challenge and we start to wilt away come March - April time I'd be happy.

Also I'd like to win the Scottish and get to the semi's at least in the League Cup.

So for me finishing the season in 2nd only 10 points behind the winner, win the Scottish and a semi appearance in the League Cup would i then renew Fenlon's contract.

Beefster
02-08-2013, 08:07 AM
The targets are being reevaluated. I guarantee that sixth in May will be painted as some sort of success.

StarMan10
02-08-2013, 08:10 AM
Think top 4 is what we should be hoping and aiming for. Although I'd be accepting of top 6 and a cup win. Hopefully we'l some nice football being played and some of the younger players achieving their potential.

JustSimplyHibs
02-08-2013, 08:12 AM
Progress will be evident if we make the top 6, but I'm not pinning my hopes on any particular league position.

In a league as tight as ours (3 points separated the 3rd to 5th teams) too many factors outside our control can influence that (e.g. injuries, disallowed goals, non-penalties) so I'm not going to declare any particular finishing place as failure.

Just give me a team which looks like it knows what its doing. One which competes in every game from the start of the season till the end and which is in the mix for the Euro places come the split.

I want to see our midfield control games and use skill and guile to create opportunities for our strikers.

Anyone demanding 2nd or third as a minimum, clearly weren't at the Malmo game!

Think the midweek Champs League game between Selick and Elfsborg proved the Swedes are no mugs, and Malmo are walking it.

We have also singed two players since then, with a couple more hopefully to come in, our league is poor and with 6 good players, 2nd is more than achievable.

rcarter1
02-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Based on how we played last season, players out and in, and the quality of teams we are competing with

1st - Miracle
2nd - Minor miracle
3rd - Excellent
4th - Good
5-6th - Decent/OK
7-8th - Poor
9-10th - Grim
11th - Unacceptable
12th - Horror show

Still think a lot of teams around us are reasonably strong, and we have no idea yet how we will adapt to not having Griffiths. Hopefully it will encourage us to attack more/better...

spike220
02-08-2013, 08:17 AM
:top marks

With the physical pressence of our squad now being on par with Selick i would like to see us push on. Only thing missing is that consistent creative player that can unlock teams (maybe Collins) although, our midfield does have some intelligence in the likes of Thomson, Craig, Harris, OTJ, players that can find that final killer ball.

I would hope that our ambition is to secretly challenge. If we do challenge and we start to wilt away come March - April time I'd be happy.

Also I'd like to win the Scottish and get to the semi's at least in the League Cup.

So for me finishing the season in 2nd only 10 points behind the winner, win the Scottish and a semi appearance in the League Cup would i then renew Fenlon's contract. Then we can all dream of European football nights at Easter Road...:cb

OrdHibby
02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
I think Motherwell will push for 2nd again but Aberdeen will be up there with then. Dundee Utd could be strong also. With Fenlon still at the helm i can't see Hibs above the likes of ICT, Ross County or St Johnstone, clubs with far less revenue than Hibs.
If we finish in the top 6 with Fenlon i'd be extremely surprised but unless it's top 6 pushing for second i'd be extremely disappointed as it will be yet another season of failure in my eyes. I don't think those in charge realise how big a loss Claros will be. The replacements are no where near as good.

Maybe i set my targets to high but when i was introduced to football we were challenging for the league title, not worrying about a top 6 finish. There aren't 6 top clubs in Scotland and probably the biggest is in the 3rd division.

JustSimplyHibs
02-08-2013, 08:28 AM
Then we can all dream of European football nights at Easter Road...:cb


Wouldnae go that far, let's get ourself sorted in our own country first before going that far... :cb

ScottB
02-08-2013, 08:30 AM
Realistically top 6 and avoiding any further additions to the Fenlon Apology reel would probably do.

Allant1981
02-08-2013, 08:33 AM
We have to be looking at a top 4 finish. When everyone is fit that is a strong squad, we really need to get another good striker in though, if vine or collins gets injured i cant see us scoring many

SlickShoes
02-08-2013, 08:35 AM
Top 6 with no capitulations.

I won't hope for amazing football either, like the myth that we are some sort of team well known for amazing football, in my life time we had the McLeish team and the Mowbray team really playing good football, the rest 50/50 sometimes good sometimes awful.

Win more than we lose, beat hearts as many times as possible, cup runs are a bonus.

Stevie Reid
02-08-2013, 08:36 AM
Targets are relative to where we have been and how long and how much Pat has had to work with: -

- Top 3 should be the target
- Would accept top 6 IF the football is good and entertaining and we are squeezed out to 5th or 6th by an exceptionally tight league
- Missing out on top 6 on the last day of the split should see Fenlon leave at the end of his contract
- Being nowhere near relegation but nowhere near top 6 after Christmas should see Fenlon removed
- Anywhere close to the bottom of the league before Christmas should see him sacked
- Another embarrassing result of any kind should be instant dismissal

OrdHibby
02-08-2013, 08:39 AM
Oh aye. If we fail to win the first derby then FENLON should be sacked before he leaves the *****hole for the team bus. :aok:

Expecting Rain
02-08-2013, 08:42 AM
With the present squad up to this point I'd guess that top 6 should be a realistic target.

Islington Hibs
02-08-2013, 08:51 AM
Given the lack of Servco and Hearts at the basement we really should be aiming at top 3. There is one more season without Rangers (after this) and a good chance Hearts will be relegated and more so the next 2 seasons are critical if Hibs are to re-establish themselves at the top of Scottish football.

Given recent mediocrity and the loss of Grffiths my expectations are not high but frankly, given our resources against the others, top should be the Boards minimum target with perhaps a League Cup consolation prize.

patlowe
02-08-2013, 08:53 AM
Targets are relative to where we have been and how long and how much Pat has had to work with: -

- Top 3 should be the target
- Would accept top 6 IF the football is good and entertaining and we are squeezed out to 5th or 6th by an exceptionally tight league
- Missing out on top 6 on the last day of the split should see Fenlon leave at the end of his contract
- Being nowhere near relegation but nowhere near top 6 after Christmas should see Fenlon removed
- Anywhere close to the bottom of the league before Christmas should see him sacked
- Another embarrassing result of any kind should be instant dismissal

Would go along with this. Regardless of the performance against Malmo, Fenlon has played the 'progress' card for long enough. Based on our resources and structural advantages 3rd has to be the target and if Fenlon doesn't get close to it (ie top 5/6) then I'd suggest he has to move on.

blackpoolhibs
02-08-2013, 08:59 AM
A European spot by league position is the minimum i expect, anything else and its complete failure in my opinion.

Hibby Kay-Yay
02-08-2013, 08:59 AM
All Cup competitions - min of semi final place

League - Min of 4th place

Team - 2 more promoted from Academy

Hibbyradge
02-08-2013, 08:59 AM
Think the midweek Champs League game between Selick and Elfsborg proved the Swedes are no mugs, and Malmo are walking it.

We have also singed two players since then, with a couple more hopefully to come in, our league is poor and with 6 good players, 2nd is more than achievable.

FYI, Malmo are second, 5 points off the top.

Spike Mandela
02-08-2013, 09:28 AM
To finish above Hearts.:cb (Is there an 'I'm only half joking' smiley.:greengrin)

edinburghhibee
02-08-2013, 09:41 AM
Must be top 4 finish or pat needs to go, we have a good player pool and if they don't finish top 4 pat has failed to manage properly

JimBHibees
02-08-2013, 09:46 AM
A style of football that involves passes along the ground with purpose, movement on an off the ball, a quick tempo, a couple of players who get me off my seat when they have the ball and run at a player and just generally a style of play that doesn't have me thinking Bobby Williamson wasn't so bad after all.

Completely agree I want us to be an attractive, passing and sharp team to watch. We could with a maverick type player who could do something different, someone like McCourt or a fit Danny Swanson. On McCourt you would think that his next move he would be wanting to play for a club where he is a regular starter rather than a perennial bench player.

Golden Bear
02-08-2013, 10:00 AM
With the resources we have, we should be aiming for a 2nd place finish in the League and decent runs in the Cups will be an added bonus.

Of course it's highly unlikely that these targets will be achieved as long as our very own Captain Francesco Schettino remains at the helm.

Eyrie
02-08-2013, 10:04 AM
Target has to be top four and good runs in the cups, although I could live with top six if we have injuries as an excuse. If Fenlon achieves that, then he gets another two years and if he doesn't we move on without him.

Oh, and just for Meh let's get Griffiths back either in January or on a pre-contract.

Captain Trips
02-08-2013, 10:10 AM
3rd place. We will not be getting it though IMO, 20 months in there are absolutely no excuses.

PedroEdin84
02-08-2013, 10:44 AM
Want a top 4. Would prob accept top 6 as progress! Just whatever happens we better not be in a last game relegation battle with 'them'

gackohibs
02-08-2013, 10:54 AM
I would go for another unbeaten season against THEM, and to pull it together at the back. The amount of horrible simple gifted goals we ship are embarrassing. If we can cut that down by at least a third, I'm confident of reaching top six.

GlenrothesHibee
02-08-2013, 11:17 AM
We were top 3 for most of the season last season so more of the same without the usual slump

easty
02-08-2013, 11:39 AM
I think we've got a good enough squad to go for 2nd, but under Fenlon I think we'll be between 5th and 7th, and if we make the top 6 it'll be painted as a success and further progress.

silverhibee
02-08-2013, 11:43 AM
3rd Place as a minimum.

I look at our squad and we have by far a good enough squad to be sitting at least 3rd in this league this year. Anything below that will be a failure in my eyes, and I hope this is the kind of attitude and mentality that is now being installed within the dressing room.

Hard work, commitment and the ability to speed up play and act with urgency are vital this year.

As fans we have been kicked so many times but will continue to back this team as normal, time for a huge turnaround from the club itself.

Lets get it done


Treble

Hiber-nation
02-08-2013, 11:46 AM
Not too fussed about the cups. We should be aiming for 2nd but the way things are at Hibs I'd be happy with 4th as long as the team are playing attractive football.

--------
02-08-2013, 11:47 AM
FYI, Malmo are second, 5 points off the top.


And took a gubbing last night.

All depends on just how good the new signings are, and how PF plays them.

Not optimistic right now.

Hibernia&Alba
02-08-2013, 06:13 PM
Top four should always be the aim, and, frankly, with Rangers absent and Hearts in crisis, it should be a given. However, I just don't believe we're capable of it with the team we have now, and I'm particularly worried about where the goals will come from. Top six is a must this season, and a team playing decent football, looking motivated and organised is the very least we should expect. For Fenlon's sake a good start is required, or he'll be gone and the club will be back to yet another fresh start. He must produce now. Last season we started well and things were looking good, but we then fell away badly. Hopefully my concerns will prove unfounded, but I think we'll end up eighth or ninth with a different manager come next May.

Onceinawhile
02-08-2013, 06:18 PM
5 biggest teams in Scotland are, Aberdeen, celtic, hearts, Hibs and rangers. 2 of them are out of this season. If we don't finish top 3 then the management have failed. Our budget will also be second or third biggest so again if we aren't top 3 its failure.

Regardless of that, minimum top 6 and two quarter finals.

brian6-2
02-08-2013, 06:19 PM
I can see us really struggling to be honest. we'll be very lucky to make top 6.

Keith_M
02-08-2013, 06:27 PM
Top Four and avoid the Cup Final is a must for me!

Unseen work
02-08-2013, 06:34 PM
Take each game at a time. Go out to win every game. If we win don't get to ahead of ourselves, if we lose let's not think it's the end of the season or makes us rubbish. We do have a good squad, no team bar Celtic IMO have a far better team than us on paper. We shouldn't fear anyone in this league everyone is capable of beating each other.

snooky
02-08-2013, 06:34 PM
Given the financial state of the rest of the SPL clubs (bar the soapies - oops, accidental pun there), we should be aiming at, if not expecting, 2nd place.
The general mood of the fans shows how far we've gone in taking failure as a given.
Five years of poor fare has all but squeezed the heart and any drop of ambition out of the club as a whole.

Personally, I would be happy just to see a wee bit of attacking football now and again - not much to ask surely.
That will never happen playing one up front.

Nevertheless, I live in hope.
GGTTH

stoneyburn hibs
02-08-2013, 06:43 PM
Fenlon should be emptied if we are not top six next season, if he lasts that long.

Captain Trips
02-08-2013, 06:46 PM
Fenlon should be emptied if we are not top six next season, if he lasts that long.

Top 6,7 8 or 9 all irrelevant. Anything below 3rd is failing for me. Top 6 is a target of failure.

Stuarty27
02-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Hearts are starting with -15points and with no Rangers we must finish at least 3rd or its another poor season IMO

CorrieHibs
02-08-2013, 09:02 PM
I think Motherwell will push for 2nd again but Aberdeen will be up there with then. Dundee Utd could be strong also. With Fenlon still at the helm i can't see Hibs above the likes of ICT, Ross County or St Johnstone, clubs with far less revenue than Hibs.
If we finish in the top 6 with Fenlon i'd be extremely surprised but unless it's top 6 pushing for second i'd be extremely disappointed as it will be yet another season of failure in my eyes. I don't think those in charge realise how big a loss Claros will be. The replacements are no where near as good.

Maybe i set my targets to high but when i was introduced to football we were challenging for the league title, not worrying about a top 6 finish. There aren't 6 top clubs in Scotland and probably the biggest is in the 3rd division.

Totally agree with that! I think we have the squad and players to finish at least 3rd however with Fenlon in charge I expect a bottom 6 finish. Hope I'm wrong but I've lost patience with the man. He's not up to the job.

theonlywayisup
02-08-2013, 09:08 PM
I predict that Hibs will:

Win more than most against the team that usually make up the top six, such as Aberdeen, Well, Utd, St. J
We will struggle against the teams in the bottom six, such as Killie, Partick, St. Mirren, ICT, County. However, that will be welcomed by those teams who will stay well ahead of...............
Hertz, who we gub four times.
We unfortunately just miss out on a top six slot, but the plus point is that our final win against Hertz, in front of a capacity crowd, sees Hertz relegated to the Championship.


All of this is complete tosh, as we know Hertz will not survive long enough for us to win all four Derbies this season.

theonlywayisup
02-08-2013, 09:10 PM
Seriously, I am confident that we can achieve 3rd, possibly 2nd, depending on who we buy before the transfer window shuts.

Give me Claros, an exciting winger and a godd right back and I will be happy!

SMAXXA
02-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Top Four and avoid the Cup Final is a must for me!

I don't get the last bit, I would take a cup final every single season, regardless of the outcome (no against hearts). Its a great day out and great seeing the Hibs army out in force, its about the whole days experience for me, the result takes care of itself, unfortunately enough for us :wink:

Paisley Hibby
02-08-2013, 09:27 PM
There's what our target SHOULD be and there's what's achievable if we keep Fenlon.

With a half decent manager we should be aiming for and expecting 2nd place and looking for a good run in both cups. (As Celtic's wage bill is more than the rest of the premier league clubs put together, second place is really first for the the rest of us).

If we hang on to Fenlon we'll end up in 9th place playing eye bleeding football and will probably get well and truly humped in another cup final.

Just saying like.

Paisley Hibby
02-08-2013, 09:43 PM
With the resources we have, we should be aiming for a 2nd place finish in the League and decent runs in the Cups will be an added bonus.

Of course it's highly unlikely that these targets will be achieved as long as our very own Captain Francesco Schettino remains at the helm.

There's a difference to be fair. Fenlon is staying on board while he sinks us... :greengrin

lEXO
02-08-2013, 09:48 PM
Top 4, some good football to watch, spank the Hearts 3 times, a good run in both cups and a genuine feel good factor back at Easter Road. The manager and players are due us big time and it,s time to stop talking about doing it and just do it.

Andy74
02-08-2013, 09:49 PM
Totally agree with that! I think we have the squad and players to finish at least 3rd however with Fenlon in charge I expect a bottom 6 finish. Hope I'm wrong but I've lost patience with the man. He's not up to the job.

I think the tendency for this sort of view this week is a bit wierd.

Nakedmanoncrack
02-08-2013, 09:50 PM
Second place should be the target, anything less than 3rd in a league without Rangers, and with a handicapped Hearts has to be seen as failure.
Unfortunately under Fenlon I only see more failure.

hibee19
02-08-2013, 09:55 PM
Pretty worried at the moment and if you offered me 10th I'd take it.

snooky
02-08-2013, 09:59 PM
I think the tendency for this sort of view this week is a bit wierd.

Which bit do you think is weird, Andy?
The "we have the squad" or "he's (Fenlon) not up for the job"
Just wondered. :confused:

BVB Hibs
02-08-2013, 10:13 PM
Think people are getting a little ahead of themselves in their expectations of the team and the manager. The side last year only managed 6th in the league, and that with a player who was pumping in goals for fun for the majority of the season. We've now lost that player, and without him the team last year would have struggled to get above 10th.

I do believe the squad this year is an improvement on last year overall, but lacking somebody like LG to get us through tight games. For that reason I see us struggling to beat teams that we're dominating. I do expect us to play better quality football than last season though, and anything would be an improvement.

My major worry would be our frailties at the back. McGivern is a booking magnet, while the center backs haven't been fit in a long time. I'm hoping that the new signing does a job, and that Mullen fits in at right back. If we can stabalize at the back and make ourselves difficult to beat thats a good start.

My expectations though would be top 6. If we finish 6th I'll be happy with the season. We now have a squad that forms the decent basis of a European push. Give them one more season, give Fenlon another summer to try fully build a team and judge them off the back of that. If we can keep players like Harris, Collins, OTJ, Taiwo, Vine and Craig and add extra players next season to build a stronger side we'll be laughing. Our aim should be second in the 2014/2015 season, and up to that point all I want to be seeing from Fenlon this season is an improvement on last season. As long as he continues to see the side into a better league position I'll be more than happy with his performance.

Sure there's other team's we should be bigger than, but you're expecting miracles over one summer. Motherwell, St Johnstone and all the others are simply superior sides to us at the moment. Expecting us to suddenly overtake them, especially after seeing the side against Malmo last week, on the basis of a few decent signings is just very wishful thinking. The team had more holes than tynecastle, that was more than apparent at the tail end of last year, as long as Pat has covered some of them and given us the opportunity to fill the rest I'll be happy to have him continue. More people need to be realists.

HibeesLA
02-08-2013, 10:14 PM
a fair number of new faces, so I'm going for a rocky start, bouncing around between 5 and 10 for the first 3 months while everyone is on a low points count. After that, I would be looking for the team improving, slowly cementing their position and not having the usual Hibs nightmare post New Year slump.

I would say 4 or 5 with a solid and consistent season would be an improvement for me.

Andy74
02-08-2013, 10:14 PM
We've had a week of this. Under Fenlon there will only be failure chat. That one game was horrendous but we've only seen progress under him so far. Where we ended in the league was disappointing given we had been top 3 for so long but that's a good change from being realistic relegation candidates. Four times at Hampden. Beating Hearts.

I get some of the concerns but not these types of posts that talk about Fenlon as some sort of guaranteed failure that is keeping us back.

There is plenty to be able to debate without that type of over dramatic and not backed up in anyway so far nonsense.

If he were to take us from here now to bottom six finishes and getting knocked out of cups early then I might bebable to buy that he can be talked about in such terms.

jiggerman
02-08-2013, 10:15 PM
Big disparity between where people say we should come and and where we will likely come. Honestly don't see Fenlon taking us into the top 6. There's Partick keeping Utd to a shut out tonight, Hibs would simply concede because of shocking organisational tactics.

hibee19
02-08-2013, 10:24 PM
We've had a week of this. Under Fenlon there will only be failure chat. That one game was horrendous but we've only seen progress under him so far. Where we ended in the league was disappointing given we had been top 3 for so long but that's a good change from being realistic relegation candidates. Four times at Hampden. Beating Hearts.

I get some of the concerns but not these types of posts that talk about Fenlon as some sort of guaranteed failure that is keeping us back.

There is plenty to be able to debate without that type of over dramatic and not backed up in anyway so far nonsense.

If he were to take us from here now to bottom six finishes and getting knocked out of cups early then I might bebable to buy that he can be talked about in such terms.

Thats for Fenlon to change.

Captain Trips
02-08-2013, 10:32 PM
We've had a week of this. Under Fenlon there will only be failure chat. That one game was horrendous but we've only seen progress under him so far. Where we ended in the league was disappointing given we had been top 3 for so long but that's a good change from being realistic relegation candidates. Four times at Hampden. Beating Hearts.

I get some of the concerns but not these types of posts that talk about Fenlon as some sort of guaranteed failure that is keeping us back.

There is plenty to be able to debate without that type of over dramatic and not backed up in anyway so far nonsense.

If he were to take us from here now to bottom six finishes and getting knocked out of cups early then I might bebable to buy that he can be talked about in such terms.

You talk of progress and yes from 11th to 7th is but so would 11th to 10th, so would 6th this season then 5th the next. It isnt as black and white we were 11th and now 7th so he is right man. For me it wasnt enough in terms of firstly league position and 2ndly on how we went about it yes there were some good games but for me they seemed the exception.

He took us over when 11th and I would have fancied every other SPL manager to have got us higher than 11th last term as well after having 6 months previous to that. We have progressed in the final standings but it has been laboured and uninspiring. IMO I feel Hibs are and were capable of a higher position than they got and faster, Hibs just for me are just going to linger on this term I have seen nothing of the man to suggest progress if any will continue to be slow and laboured.

I think if PF had came in after anyone other than CC he would have been away, being better than CC doesnt make you a good manager it makes you better than a really poor one.

lEXO
02-08-2013, 10:36 PM
You talk of progress and yes from 11th to 7th is but so would 11th to 10th, so would 6th this season then 5th the next. It isnt as black and white we were 11th and now 7th so he is right man. For me it wasnt enough in terms of firstly league position and 2ndly on how we went about it yes there were some good games but for me they seemed the exception.

He took us over when 11th and I would have fancied every other SPL manager to have got us higher than 11th last term as well after having 6 months previous to that. We have progressed in the final standings but it has been laboured and uninspiring. IMO I feel Hibs are and were capable of a higher position than they got and faster, Hibs just for me are just going to linger on this term I have seen nothing of the man to suggest progress if any will be slow and laboured.

I think if PF had came in after anyone other than CC he would have been away, being better than CC doesnt make you a good manager it makes you better than a really poor one.
Great post. :aok:

JMac
02-08-2013, 11:33 PM
I just want a top 6, we've not been in it for 3 or 4 years now. A wee scotish cup win would be acceptable as well I guess

OrdHibby
03-08-2013, 12:00 AM
You talk of progress and yes from 11th to 7th is but so would 11th to 10th, so would 6th this season then 5th the next. It isnt as black and white we were 11th and now 7th so he is right man. For me it wasnt enough in terms of firstly league position and 2ndly on how we went about it yes there were some good games but for me they seemed the exception.

He took us over when 11th and I would have fancied every other SPL manager to have got us higher than 11th last term as well after having 6 months previous to that. We have progressed in the final standings but it has been laboured and uninspiring. IMO I feel Hibs are and were capable of a higher position than they got and faster, Hibs just for me are just going to linger on this term I have seen nothing of the man to suggest progress if any will continue to be slow and laboured.

I think if PF had came in after anyone other than CC he would have been away, being better than CC doesnt make you a good manager it makes you better than a really poor one.

My recollection is we were 8th or 9th. When Mixu took over the job we were 8th and finished 5th. That was progress.

SouthamptonHibs
03-08-2013, 12:02 AM
Has to be second place or no point in FY13/14 for Hibs. Fenlon.`s third season if he can't get second wi Yams and Der hun out the league's then we are in a bad shape

DH1875
03-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Fenlon should be emptied if we are not top six next season, if he lasts that long.


I just want a top 6, we've not been in it for 3 or 4 years now. A wee scotish cup win would be acceptable as well I guess


Top 6 :confused:. Are folk who say top 6th saying that that should be our target or are they saying it's the minimum they'd accept. I honestly can't believe there's fans out there who think a 6th place finish would be OK. 4th should be the minimum we're aiming for and anything less should be seen as failure, even if we do make a cup semi.

HUTCHYHIBBY
03-08-2013, 12:14 PM
I think the tendency for this sort of view this week is a bit wierd.

Aye, we know, you've mentioned it once or twice.

HH81
03-08-2013, 12:26 PM
Top 6 min, top 4 target.

hibee19
03-08-2013, 12:28 PM
Top 6 :confused:. Are folk who say top 6th saying that that should be our target or are they saying it's the minimum they'd accept. I honestly can't believe there's fans out there who think a 6th place finish would be OK. 4th should be the minimum we're aiming for and anything less should be seen as failure, even if we do make a cup semi.

There's a big difference between acceptable and realistic.

DH1875
03-08-2013, 01:37 PM
There's a big difference between acceptable and realistic.


So is the realistic target an acceptable target :dunno::confused:

CorrieHibs
03-08-2013, 01:37 PM
We've had a week of this. Under Fenlon there will only be failure chat. That one game was horrendous but we've only seen progress under him so far. Where we ended in the league was disappointing given we had been top 3 for so long but that's a good change from being realistic relegation candidates. Four times at Hampden. Beating Hearts.

I get some of the concerns but not these types of posts that talk about Fenlon as some sort of guaranteed failure that is keeping us back.

There is plenty to be able to debate without that type of over dramatic and not backed up in anyway so far nonsense.

If he were to take us from here now to bottom six finishes and getting knocked out of cups early then I might bebable to buy that he can be talked about in such terms.

He's to blame for 2 of the most damaging results in our clubs history!
The 2 cup finals were papering over the cracks. He got out of jail in the semi and then in the final we were off the mark again! We finished 7th in a poor SPL league! We beat them twice last season which I enjoyed but they are the poorest hearts team in years.


If it wasn't for griffths last season we would of been in trouble.

The Sea-gull
03-08-2013, 01:49 PM
Target, given where we have been for last 3 seasons, has to be top 6 as a minimum. Not saying that merely making top 6 should be acceptable for our club but given where we have been it would represent progress. No hearts no huns mean that the minute we don't make it or look like we won't make it then Pat should be sacked as he has had long enough and must show some signs of REAL progress. Squad looks decent now on paper. Good but not great. Do I think pat can get us there? Yes he can. Do I think he will? Not so sure.

Col2
03-08-2013, 01:51 PM
I think Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee United have better fire power and creativity along with some stability in defence. Therefore barring the signing of sparky or a quality winger / creative attacking midfielder then we are unlikely to be top 4. Top 6 at best.

A good start is vital for so many reasons, not least for the manager.

Spike Mandela
03-08-2013, 01:59 PM
Have the clubs that finished above us got significantly weaker or have we significantly improved? The answer to both in all honesty is no so I can't see any significant improvement this year in play or league position.

Hibercelona
03-08-2013, 02:00 PM
Our target should always be 1st, even if it isn't realistic. That's the only way to truly push the limits.

Sadly, I can see us failing to finish in the top 6 again next season.

hibbeedavid
03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
Anything outside the top 4 should be considered failure for us but I can see this season being a long one and us finishing 9th or 10th, lack of goals and a leaky defence being likely

jacomo
03-08-2013, 02:41 PM
That won't be good enough for me, we need to be top 4 and playing a style of football that doesn't bore people to death, anything else and fenlons contract shouldn't be renewed.

If Pat's contract does expire at the end of the season it's an easy way out for us. Doubt we'll do anything special this season but prob won't be relegated. We can then thank him and part our ways - and he won't have been sacked.

Club should be reviewing everything and putting a better structure in place for 2014 onwards. I thought that's what we were doing but Malmo tie shows how far away we are.

sesoim
03-08-2013, 03:48 PM
Realistically top 6 and avoiding any further additions to the Fenlon Apology reel would probably do.



If Fenlon wants to keep his job, 6th place will not be good enough. That would be like finishing 8th if Rangers and Hearts were their normal selves.

Would it really be acceptable to finish below teams like Inverness and Ross County again? Butcher and Adams would bite your hand off for Fenlon's budget.

sesoim
03-08-2013, 03:55 PM
Hearts are starting with -15points and with no Rangers we must finish at least 3rd or its another poor season IMO


:agree: We are the 3rd best supported club in the league, and Hearts are in a mess. Hibs and Aberdeen should really be battling it out for 2nd or both clubs are underperforming. But tbf to Motherwell, they have run the club perfectly for the last few years, and have an excellent manager who has attracted good players to the club that Hibs should really have been signing.

I think we might finish 4th behind them, but it may take an early managerial change for us to get that high.

marinello59
03-08-2013, 04:13 PM
Surely the target from day one should be to win the league however unlikely that is, aspire to be first not second, third or even worse.
I agree. Targeting second or even worse, the top six, is why our top league will never be truly competitive.

neil7908
03-08-2013, 04:19 PM
I cant understand any logic which suggests that a top 6 place is a meaningful target. Its got to be a finish that puts us in Europe for me, anything else is unacceptable. The split has created this warped logic whereby it can be deemed an achievement just to make 6th. Yes this results in extra money for the club but in footballing terms, its utterly meaningless.Although I wouldn't suggest winning the Scottish Cup is something the manager should be judged on, I think its something that should be considered a realistic target. This period in Scottish football represents the best opportunity Hibs have had in my lifetime to achieve some success in that competition and now having been to 2 finals, we really need to get some silverware at Easter Road. This season is the chance for Hibs to take advantage of the demise of Hearts and Rangers and cement ourselves as one of the countries most successful teams. We wont get many better chances so its now or never for Fenlon.

Thecat23
03-08-2013, 04:25 PM
In this league and the club of our size and wage budget top four should be the target, anything below is not just a fail but a massive fail in my view.

Captain Trips
03-08-2013, 04:35 PM
If there was no split and it had never been put in would we even be discussing top 6 as an achievement or a minimum?

5th and 6th are in top 6 IMO giving a fake sense of achievement certainly for Hibernian. Split or not 5th/6th and with Hearts and Rangers in trouble 4th are all failure positions. The split means totally nothing to me it never has and never will and Hibs should never be even thinking about it as a club.

greenlex
03-08-2013, 04:36 PM
The targets are being reevaluated. I guarantee that sixth in May will be painted as some sort of success.

Rediculous. Post. It will be progress tho. Target should be 4th minimum for it to be remotely successful.

Treadstone
03-08-2013, 04:39 PM
Dundee Utd absolutely affronted themselves with their celebration when clinching a top 6 place last season.
Total red face like they had just won a league championship.
False achievement.

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2013, 04:39 PM
Rediculous. Post. It will be progress tho. Target should be 4th minimum for it to be remotely successful.

Some folk will spin it as progress, but anything less than 4th is failure.

greenlex
03-08-2013, 04:44 PM
Some folk will spin it as progress, but anything less than 4th is failure.

I agree but was just making a valid point.

Thecat23
03-08-2013, 04:48 PM
If there was no split and it had never been put in would we even be discussing top 6 as an achievement or a minimum?

5th and 6th are in top 6 IMO giving a fake sense of achievement certainly for Hibernian. Split or not 5th/6th and with Hearts and Rangers in trouble 4th are all failure positions. The split means totally nothing to me it never has and never will and Hibs should never be even thinking about it as a club.

Not having a go here bud, but not sure i understand what your saying? So the whole league is pointless and you aren't fussed about where we finish?

Notahappyhibee
03-08-2013, 04:52 PM
Hibs as a club we should be aiming for top spot but I'm a realist 2nd / 3rd at a push is where Hibernian should be.
Under current management if they can get us playing some good football and be consistent at the back then I think a top six will be an improvement. If we continue to play like last season I think we will just be staving of hearts for bottom spot.
GGTTH !!!!

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2013, 04:52 PM
Not having a go here bud, but not sure i understand what your saying? So the whole league is pointless and you aren't fussed about where we finish?

I think what he means is, finishing 6th has now become some sort of achievement, when in reality its a 6th place finish. Its still a crap finish, and should not be held up as something great, 4th is the minimum we should be accepting as any sort of achievement in my opinion.

Andy74
03-08-2013, 04:53 PM
Some folk will spin it as progress, but anything less than 4th is failure.

Doubt it this year. I wouldn't see 6th as progress.

Brightside
03-08-2013, 04:59 PM
Doubt it this year. I wouldn't see 6th as progress.

I'll be delighted to be Top 4 this year, and with our current squad that should do-able.

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2013, 04:59 PM
Doubt it this year. I wouldn't see 6th as progress.



:shocked: :greengrin

Andy74
03-08-2013, 05:01 PM
I'll be delighted to be Top 4 this year, and with our current squad that should do-able.

Yeah outside top 4 wouldn't be good enough.

Hainan Hibs
03-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Top 4 plus semi final of a cup. With Rangers out of the league, Hearts starting on -15, our budget and the money we have spent on fees and wages this summer, top 4 has to be achieved.

Thecat23
03-08-2013, 05:06 PM
I think what he means is, finishing 6th has now become some sort of achievement, when in reality its a 6th place finish. Its still a crap finish, and should not be held up as something great, 4th is the minimum we should be accepting as any sort of achievement in my opinion.

Ah right, I fully agree with what he means then.

stoneyburn hibs
03-08-2013, 05:11 PM
Top 6 :confused:. Are folk who say top 6th saying that that should be our target or are they saying it's the minimum they'd accept. I honestly can't believe there's fans out there who think a 6th place finish would be OK. 4th should be the minimum we're aiming for and anything less should be seen as failure, even if we do make a cup semi.

Top 6 minimum would maybe keep him in a job

Hibernia&Alba
03-08-2013, 05:14 PM
The thing is we should be discussing how to finish second this season. No Rangers and Hearts starting with a fifteen point deficit should represent a great chance for a club of Hibs' size in Scotland. Sadly, I just don't think it's even a possibility.

BVB Hibs
03-08-2013, 05:46 PM
How is top 6 not a decent aim?

Do we have a the squad to be tackling for top two? No.

Do we have a squad for top 4? Probably not.

Yes, a club of hibs size should be challenging for the top of the league, especially with the league in its' current state. However, you need the team to do it, and we don't have that at the moment. To expect average players to achieve above average results and branding it as a failure if they don't just isn't realism, it's stupidity. Just expecting results to come out just because we have bigger budgets than many of the sides above us just isn't a good argument. Yes, we should have a better squad, however we don't, so don't start expecting things that aren't going to happen. You also can't blame a manager for performances of a side that simply isn't good enough.

GlenrothesHibee
03-08-2013, 05:47 PM
The quality in the Premiership looks quite good. Ross County look handy and the game last night was great. St Johnstone seem to be flying so worrying we can match up. Time will tell

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2013, 05:56 PM
How is top 6 not a decent aim?

Do we have a the squad to be tackling for top two? No.

Do we have a squad for top 4? Probably not.

Yes, a club of hibs size should be challenging for the top of the league, especially with the league in its' current state. However, you need the team to do it, and we don't have that at the moment. To expect average players to achieve above average results and branding it as a failure if they don't just isn't realism, it's stupidity. Just expecting results to come out just because we have bigger budgets than many of the sides above us just isn't a good argument. Yes, we should have a better squad, however we don't, so don't start expecting things that aren't going to happen. You also can't blame a manager for performances of a side that simply isn't good enough.

You could have just said we need to be more patient? :rolleyes:

wheniwas5
03-08-2013, 08:54 PM
I,ve not went through the whole thread but 2nd place is were we should targeting.

Shields Hibee
03-08-2013, 11:28 PM
Top 6 though would like to be 4th or 5th & having another cup run. Hopefully we won't get knocked out by lower league opposition in the LC early on as Pat should be looking to get us into the quarters or semis of this competition.

Latter stages of the SC will do nicely, 3rd final in a row would be nice :greengrin

Hibby 2005
04-08-2013, 12:24 AM
I,ve not went through the whole thread but 2nd place is were we should targeting.

2nd place will not be won by us. The bookies are rarely wrong and not many of them have us finishing top 6, mainly because of Fenlon I suspect. I'd like them to be proved wrong but on the evidence so far I suspect the bookies aren't far off the mark.

Captain Trips
04-08-2013, 01:01 AM
How is top 6 not a decent aim?

Do we have a the squad to be tackling for top two? No.

Do we have a squad for top 4? Probably not.

Yes, a club of hibs size should be challenging for the top of the league, especially with the league in its' current state. However, you need the team to do it, and we don't have that at the moment. To expect average players to achieve above average results and branding it as a failure if they don't just isn't realism, it's stupidity. Just expecting results to come out just because we have bigger budgets than many of the sides above us just isn't a good argument. Yes, we should have a better squad, however we don't, so don't start expecting things that aren't going to happen. You also can't blame a manager for performances of a side that simply isn't good enough.

I can, will and do blame the manager. So after being here for 20 months he hasnt built a squad in your opinion that is likely to be 4th this season? So we go into his 2nd full season then with average players you think unlikely we will finish 4th. If in your words the side isnt good enough well it damn well should be by now so aye it is his fault.

I think it was and is realistic to be confidently going into this season with a manager who has been here upto now for 20 months to have a team capable of a finish in top 4. However I am not confident of this at all and I expect the team to be 6th/7th because thats were I think this managers ability lies.

Glory Lurker
04-08-2013, 01:13 AM
Given our relative resources/ financial position - 2nd. This should be virtually a given. I am struggling for an acceptable reason why not. :dunno:

zero-seven
04-08-2013, 04:28 AM
Given our relative resources/ financial position - 2nd. This should be virtually a given. I am struggling for an acceptable reason why not. :dunno:

unfortunately I don't see us being close to 2nd, even though we should be there with our resources..... we have a confidence issue with the manager and the players don't have confidence in each other, or so it seems...our usual dip in for around novemeber/December / January will ensure mediocrity unless they have a serious change in attitude....with the ****bos starting 15 points less than us, if they even get close to overtaking us is tantamount to a sacking offence.... I would settle for top 4 and Europe...anything else is abject failure, the board have backed the manager, as have the majority of fans, I await to see how they react on the pitch, the team must play football pleasing to the fans and also ensure they win ugly when they need to. show a ruthless streak for once.

lord bunberry
04-08-2013, 07:24 AM
How is top 6 not a decent aim?

Do we have a the squad to be tackling for top two? No.

Do we have a squad for top 4? Probably not.

Yes, a club of hibs size should be challenging for the top of the league, especially with the league in its' current state. However, you need the team to do it, and we don't have that at the moment. To expect average players to achieve above average results and branding it as a failure if they don't just isn't realism, it's stupidity. Just expecting results to come out just because we have bigger budgets than many of the sides above us just isn't a good argument. Yes, we should have a better squad, however we don't, so don't start expecting things that aren't going to happen. You also can't blame a manager for performances of a side that simply isn't good enough.

I disagree with you, I think our squad is good enough, the doubt is whether the manager is up to the job.
It's time for the excuses to stop and for him to deliver, he has been given time by the board and the fans, he has his own team and his own coaches in place.

jodjam
04-08-2013, 07:32 AM
Given our relative resources/ financial position - 2nd. This should be virtually a given. I am struggling for an acceptable reason why not. :dunno:



Because its sport. Anything can happen. Injuries to key players, a team coming from left-field and so on. Second would be great but i reckon 4th/5th is where we will finish this year.

Golden Bear
04-08-2013, 07:38 AM
I disagree with you, I think our squad is good enough, the doubt is whether the manager is up to the job.
It's time for the excuses to stop and for him to deliver, he has been given time by the board and the fans, he has his own team and his own coaches in place.

:agree:

Couldn't agree more.

Other teams like Motherwell, St Johnstone, Caley, Ross County etc etc seem to make "progress" at a far faster pace than us and with far fewer resources.

gegs70
04-08-2013, 07:46 AM
:agree:

Couldn't agree more.

Other teams like Motherwell, St Johnstone, Caley, Ross County etc etc seem to make "progress" at a far faster pace than us and with far fewer resources.

Yep we have some good players sometimes fenlon just doesnt seem to.know what hes doing. Not strengthening the correct areas, unprepared, bringing in players that are no good Done, Kuqi...
.has to be top 4 finish and european football. Im already looking at other teams and thinking " they look good" perhaps the malmo game has lowered my overall expectations for hibs? With 12months to go is fenlon trying to get a contract extension????

WestEndHibee
04-08-2013, 07:48 AM
Given our relative resources/ financial position - 2nd. This should be virtually a given. I am struggling for an acceptable reason why not. :dunno:

Possibly because we're coming off the back of years of underachieving. Most of the time the things that made us finish badly don't just disappear into thin air over the summer. There is an obvious problem in the set up of hibs and to change that takes a long time. I would see 5th or above as a good achievement and I'd expect a higher place the year after. Then we can start talking about 2nd.

On paper we should be second by a mile but I don't think we as fans should be aiming for that this season.

YehButNoBut
04-08-2013, 08:02 AM
I've just replaced Charles Green's targets for McCoist with Fenlon, if it's good enough for Rangers we should be at least matching that. :greengrin

Pat has got to win the league - and got to win a cup. That's the stark reality of life.

Pat is a fantastic guy. He is brilliant with the players, fans and media.

But first and foremost, a manager has to win matches and has to win competitions.

He knows he has to win the league and, in my opinion, has to win a cup as well. If he doesn't do that, he has a problem.

Beefster
04-08-2013, 09:48 AM
Rediculous. Post. It will be progress tho. Target should be 4th minimum for it to be remotely successful.


I agree but was just making a valid point.

I said that sixth would be painted as some sort of success by some. You called that ridiculous. BH said that some folk will spin sixth as success. You agree.

Andy74
04-08-2013, 10:20 AM
I said that sixth would be painted as some sort of success by some. You called that ridiculous. BH said that some folk will spin sixth as success. You agree.

You might be confusing recent discussions about progress with success. I don't think anyone would claim 7th place was anything approaching success.

You don't have to spin it to equate being a real relegation candidate to one that probably should have finished top six as progress. It just is.

DH1875
04-08-2013, 10:54 AM
2nd place will not be won by us. The bookies are rarely wrong and not many of them have us finishing top 6, mainly because of Fenlon I suspect. I'd like them to be proved wrong but on the evidence so far I suspect the bookies aren't far off the mark.

The bookies had Fenlon as fav to be the first manager to be sacked in the league. They all think we'll be bottom 6 and I've yet to read or hear any pundit say different.
Would 6th and a league cup final be enough?

PeeJay
04-08-2013, 11:02 AM
The target for Hibs should be chasing Celtic for the league title. We need to aim for consistency; winning at home and picking up as many points away from home, seems simple really and with our resources, it should be an achievable goal. So it's 2nd spot for me...anything less than this is a massive failure: no excuses. Seems to me any willingness to accept less is what feeds our ability to underachieve...

Unseen work
04-08-2013, 11:10 AM
I hope the board don't think 5th or similar is very good, they have to remember there is no rangers and a handicapped hearts who lets face it have been above us in the league for years, we should automatically jump up the league without them, not stay similar position as when they were here but now letting teams like caley and Ross county bypass us.

Captain Trips
04-08-2013, 02:20 PM
His target should be a new club. Doesn't have it and never had it or will. He should resign tonight, he stays its another season wasted.

BoltonHibee
04-08-2013, 02:21 PM
The target for us if no changes are made is to finish bottom, I doubt he can achieve this though

Scouse Hibee
04-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Probably Hanlon or Stevenson.............................oops sorry I thought the title meant something else :greengrin


Hanlon it is then! :rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2013, 04:36 PM
My revised target after today is for Hibs to score a goal.

jeffers
04-08-2013, 04:36 PM
I'd like to see us score a goal.

Keith_M
04-08-2013, 04:36 PM
The target is still Fenlon............


but only through Petrie's gunsight.

jeffers
04-08-2013, 04:37 PM
My revised target after today is for Hibs to score a goal.

I'm getting worried, first we agreed, now we are posting the same thing....:greengrin

hibee19
04-08-2013, 05:23 PM
avoid relegation.

Emerald
04-08-2013, 05:26 PM
My revised target after today is for Hibs to score a goal.
I have no idea where a goal will come from as we don't create chances. It will most likely be a wonder volley or 40 yard strike. We will be lucky to reach Griffiths total from last year as a team if the pattern of play doesn't change.