Lack of Ambition

[The Harp Awakes]

I'm a glass half full guy. A happy clapper supporter as some refer to on here. Thursday was a watershed for me though as I was totally distraught after the match.

Now the emotions have died away a bit, I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We have underachieved as a Club for far too long now. Hibs are suffering from a complete lack of ambition and our current and previous Boards of Directors are wholly to blame. People say the buck stops with the football Manager, but it doesn't. Changing Manager after Manager is a smokescreen and diverts attention from the real problem; a lack of ambition by our leaders.

I like Pat Fenlon. I think he screwed up big time with tactics and team selection on Thursday but to blame him for our problems and call for his head, is just pulling the wool over the eyes.

Rangers and Hearts are on their knees. The quality in the SPFL is as poor as it has ever been. Hibs more then any other Club should be challenging Celtic but we find ourselves a laughing stock.

Time for the Board to announce to supporters how they are going to turn things around and to confirm how they are going to ensure that we never experience an embarrassment like Thursday ever again. If they have no vision for our Club, then they should all resign immediately and allow people with ambition to take us forward.

Glory Glory to the Hibees.

[jgl07]

Lack of ambition?

I now realize where Hibs have been going wrong. They should have shown the level of ambition of neighbours Hearts and spent £6 million a year more than income.

The club formerly known as Rangers had a similar idea earlier.

[Humo]

Theres a lack of ambition and there is just stupidity.

Hibs need to find the right balance so that we don't end up like hearts and rangers but I do agree that something has to be done especially when "wee teams" like St Johnstone do better than us on lower budgets

[jgl07]

Theres a lack of ambition and there is just stupidity.

Hibs need to find the right balance so that we don't end up like hearts and rangers but I do agree that something has to be done especially when "wee teams" like St Johnstone do better than us on lower budgets

What do you mean by 'middle ground'? A middle ground between losing £500,000 or so (Hibs) or £6 million a year (Hearts)?

That is bugger all to to with ambition it is signing better players and hiring better managers but living within their budget. No-one goes out deliberately to sign bad players or bad managers.

Scottish football is littered with ghosts of teams who showed 'ambition'. Apart from Hearts and Rangers look at Motherwell and Livingstone of ten or more years ago who ended up in administration (twice for Livvy). Look at Dundee who also had two goes at administration. All the above have ended up relegated apart from Motherwell who were 'saved' by a non-compliant stadium at Falkirk.

Hibs have wasted a lot of money firing and hiring managers (plus their support staff) usually at the insistence of the support. They have also lost some good players because they became targets of the boo boys.

[Humo]

What do you mean by 'middle ground'? A middle ground between losing £500,000 or so (Hibs) or £6 million a year (Hearts)?

That is bugger all to to with ambition it is signing better players and hiring better managers but living within their budget. No-one goes out deliberately to sign bad players or bad managers.

Scottish football is littered with ghosts of teams who showed 'ambition'. Apart from Hearts and Rangers look at Motherwell and Livingstone of ten or more years ago who ended up in administration (twice for Livvy). Look at Dundee who also had two goes at administration. All the above have ended up relegated apart from Motherwell who were 'saved' by a non-compliant stadium at Falkirk.

Hibs have wasted a lot of money firing and hiring managers (plus their support staff) usually at the insistence of the support. They have also lost some good players because they became targets of the boo boys.


Fair enough but what do you suggest?

Continue on this current track of losing money, fans and games and becoming a laughing stock of Scottish football or do we fix this?

And how do you expect us to fix this problem with out being ambitious and showing the desire to fix it?

[steakbake]

Hibs have wasted a lot of money firing and hiring managers (plus their support staff) usually at the insistence of the support. They have also lost some good players because they became targets of the boo boys.

Is it a case then, that the support should lower their expectations and accept that we are a mid to lower end of the league team with top end of the league facilities?

Maybe the frustrations of the fan base could be assuaged if the club indicates honestly that it is satisfied for us to sit mid-league and that really, trophies are for other people and we should just be happy to be there when we do, but not expect to actually win anything? A Hibs family fun day but the result is secondary: we're there to make up the numbers.

The 5-1 result was a low point. But I did find the general feeling of relief and satisfaction of a good day out at Hampden this May was a bit cringe inducing.

I think what we are seeing now is the outcome of several years of frustration and not seeming to actually have any higher aims.

We're a jaded bunch.

On the booing of players: it's a bit disheartening and it's not something I do. However, there have been various examples of players over the years who have just been pitiful regularly, played error strewn games and at worst, have not put in an honest shift at their work.

To me, our ambition going into every season - and I'd suggest for maybe 5-6 teams in the SPFL has to be to attain the treble. Where we should reflect on our position is how we get on in relation to that target. If teams don't aspire to win everything that is on offer then what is the point of taking part? I honestly believe that part of the OF success over the last few years can be put down to teams going into the games having already written off the points or the next round of the cup before a ball has even been kicked.

[TheFamous1875]

I think Hibs' unquestioned ambition should always be to challenge for the title. And what I mean by that is, is that as much as that's highly unlikely, if we were challenging for second/third year after year, we would have to improve on that, and the only way we could do that is to one day work to the point where we maybe could challenge yer Celtics, and yer The Rangers for the league. Why's it impossible? If we do everything right, one day it could be done. If that's really our aim, I'm sure Petrie is a good enough businessman to make it so.

Sorry if this seems disjointed nonsense. Done a long shift and just thinking out loud as am shattered hahaGGTH


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Ray_]

What do you mean by 'middle ground'? A middle ground between losing £500,000 or so (Hibs) or £6 million a year (Hearts)?

That is bugger all to to with ambition it is signing better players and hiring better managers but living within their budget. No-one goes out deliberately to sign bad players or bad managers.

Scottish football is littered with ghosts of teams who showed 'ambition'. Apart from Hearts and Rangers look at Motherwell and Livingstone of ten or more years ago who ended up in administration (twice for Livvy). Look at Dundee who also had two goes at administration. All the above have ended up relegated apart from Motherwell who were 'saved' by a non-compliant stadium at Falkirk.

Hibs have wasted a lot of money firing and hiring managers (plus their support staff) usually at the insistence of the support. They have also lost some good players because they became targets of the boo boys.

The money coming in through the TM years showed what can be done if you give people what they want, they will spend. Thursday night, on an other extreme, gave us something that we can achieve and it wasn't what was displayed on the park.

[blackpoolhibs]

Folk trot out this line every time we fail, when they say we lack ambition what they really mean is they want us to spend more money.

We spend each season what we bring in and more, hence losing money. And thats after spending more than most teams in the SPL.

Here's a novel idea, instead of saying we lack ambition, why don't we demand the clown thats running our club appoints a manager who actually knows what he's doing for a change.

Then that manager spends the available budget wisely, and sets up a team properly with a purpose and entertaining way of playing football.

If thats not possible, then why does he not just **** off and let one of the other 99 Petries have a go?

[Beefster]

I don't understand how you can go from being a self-professed 'happy clapper' to questioning the entire structure, vision and ambition of the club after one game. I'm not saying it's wrong to question it, just that I don't understand how it can all change on one game. When I form an opinion on Hibs, it tends to form over time/games.

[Captain Trips]

There is no lack of ambition for me. We simply have had bad managers who have failed to deliver. I believe that both CC and PF have been given or have resource greater than most SPL teams they just lack the papers to use them correctly.

Petrie does apoear to back his managers its just they are not worth backing. I feel people are looking to deeply into things it is simply certainly 2 bad appointments in a row. Fenlon has made his errors but the club has made serious errors before Pat arrived and then for me with Pat himself.

People at board level have come and gone but Petrie had a 0-7 and a 5-1 of his own with CC and he will have surley of had a hand at some level in PF joining. I do not know who but we need better decisions made with such key positions.

There is no point in backing our manager if he cant do the job. We need a manager fit to use the resources and we need people fit to appoint, this has gone on way to long and its disgraceful.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't understand how you can go from being a self-professed 'happy clapper' to questioning the entire structure, vision and ambition of the club after one game. I'm not saying it's wrong to question it, just that I don't understand how it can all change on one game. When I form an opinion on Hibs, it tends to form over time/games.

I dont know if thats aimed at me, but i have been consistent in my praise of the way Petrie has run the club off the park. I have said it numerous times how he wouldn't know a good manager if Alex Ferguson slapped him on the face with a wet haddock.

Eventually after yet ANOTHER embarrassing result, you have to ask yourself why? And you have to ask yourself who is the constant in all these disastrous results?

When Petrie appoints a new manager, its obvious you have to back him and give him time. There then becomes a time like Thursday when i have said enough is enough, i can't speak for anyone else but thats it in a nutshell for me.

[lucky]

Hibs in terms of Scottish football are a big club, but unfortunately the OF are massive clubs. The yams cheated for the last 20 year's to achieve 2 Scottish cups. Whilst we have won 2 league cups. Other league form has been patchy but for the 30+ years I've watched Hibs its always been that way. Just because we get bigger crowds than most in the league does not give us the right to success. Look at Arsenal and even more so Newcastle. PF has made mistakes and has given us 2 of worst results in our history but we need to stick by him and let him finish the job he has started

[blackpoolhibs]

Where was this lack of ambition when we had McLeish as manager spending millions, or Mowbray, when with the help of some good youngsters and some very good additions had us playing the best football since the tornadoes?

Getting the right manager with our budget to spend should virtually guarantee much better than we show. Thats not lack of ambition, its constantly employing clueless managers, and we all know who's to blame here.

[IWasThere2016]

First thing We need is a fan to win the Euro Millions as that just might mean a change or owner and "leadership".

Heehaw is going to change meantime..

[The Harp Awakes]

I see there's quite a few replies saying that lack of ambition isn't a factor and its purely down to picking the right Manager.

If we do have ambition as a Club, then can someone tell me what that ambition is? What do we want to achieve as a Club this season, in the next 5 years, in the next 10 years? I don't have a clue what that ambition is and unless the Hibs board are keeping there aspirations to themselves it sounds like they do not have a clue either.

Finishing in the bottom six as often as the top 6, winning the league cup 3 times in 40+ years, qualifying for European football only occasionally, a shocking derby record, no SC win for over 100 years and 2 of the worst humpings in our history occurring in recents seasons.

If the Hibernian Board do have ambition then it looks to me that they have spectacularly failed over a long period of time. Blaming the Manager for failure time after time won't move us forward.

[Godsahibby]

Challenging Celtic? really? They have jut taken in around £40m from CL money and player sales.

We should be challenging for second place and the club has the ambition to do that, signing arguably 2/3 of the best players from teams who finished above us (Tudor-Jones from Inverness and Craig/Vine from Saints) and unlike any other club (outwith Celtic) actually spent money on a player. A club in the SPL paying £200k for a player is almost unheard of nowadays.

[Moon unit]

I'm a glass half full guy. A happy clapper supporter as some refer to on here. Thursday was a watershed for me though as I was totally distraught after the match.

Now the emotions have died away a bit, I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We have underachieved as a Club for far too long now. Hibs are suffering from a complete lack of ambition and our current and previous Boards of Directors are wholly to blame. People say the buck stops with the football Manager, but it doesn't. Changing Manager after Manager is a smokescreen and diverts attention from the real problem; a lack of ambition by our leaders.

I like Pat Fenlon. I think he screwed up big time with tactics and team selection on Thursday but to blame him for our problems and call for his head, is just pulling the wool over the eyes.

Rangers and Hearts are on their knees. The quality in the SPFL is as poor as it has ever been. Hibs more then any other Club should be challenging Celtic but we find ourselves a laughing stock.

Time for the Board to announce to supporters how they are going to turn things around and to confirm how they are going to ensure that we never experience an embarrassment like Thursday ever again. If they have no vision for our Club, then they should all resign immediately and allow people with ambition to take us forward.

Glory Glory to the Hibees.

The silence from the club since Thursday has been deafening!...as said by many the ER PR machine is worse that amateur, it's bunker mentality!..

[Onion]

Lack of ambition?

I now realize where Hibs have been going wrong. They should have shown the level of ambition of neighbours Hearts and spent £6 million a year more than income.

The club formerly known as Rangers had a similar idea earlier.

Why does ambition have to mean spending millions ? It doesn't.

Ambition means a high performance culture, where people (Board, Manager, Players and even the owner) are accountable for delivery of outstanding results and have a driven determination to succeed. Hibs will now have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the SPL. Hibs NATURAL end position should in that case be 2nd or 3rd in the SPL. Ambition is striving to exceed that natural position ! Fenlon, the Hibs players and the Hibs Board's silence is damning. There is no drive, ambition, pride or proper accountability at Hibs.

[Moon unit]

The fans may feel more valued if a credible statement of intent was issued from the club following the latest balls up!...

[Onion]

I see there's quite a few replies saying that lack of ambition isn't a factor and its purely down to picking the right Manager.

If we do have ambition as a Club, then can someone tell me what that ambition is? What do we want to achieve as a Club this season, in the next 5 years, in the next 10 years? I don't have a clue what that ambition is and unless the Hibs board are keeping there aspirations to themselves it sounds like they do not have a clue either.

Finishing in the bottom six as often as the top 6, winning the league cup 3 times in 40+ years, qualifying for European football only occasionally, a shocking derby record, no SC win for over 100 years and 2 of the worst humpings in our history occurring in recents seasons.

If the Hibernian Board do have ambition then it looks to me that they have spectacularly failed over a long period of time. Blaming the Manager for failure time after time won't move us forward.

:top marks

[Eyrie]

I see there's quite a few replies saying that lack of ambition isn't a factor and its purely down to picking the right Manager.

If we do have ambition as a Club, then can someone tell me what that ambition is? What do we want to achieve as a Club this season, in the next 5 years, in the next 10 years? I don't have a clue what that ambition is and unless the Hibs board are keeping there aspirations to themselves it sounds like they do not have a clue either.

Finishing in the bottom six as often as the top 6, winning the league cup 3 times in 40+ years, qualifying for European football only occasionally, a shocking derby record, no SC win for over 100 years and 2 of the worst humpings in our history occurring in recents seasons.

If the Hibernian Board do have ambition then it looks to me that they have spectacularly failed over a long period of time. Blaming the Manager for failure time after time won't move us forward.

Legitimate ambitions, as opposed to Football Manager-style trebles?

Our realistic and attainable target over a five year period should be a cup win and an average league placing of third. In turn that means starting each season with the aim of finishing second* in the league and winning both cups. That won't happen every year, but we have to aim high in order to achieve anything. We can't compete with Septic's budget* over the course of 38 league games, but we can compete with them for 90 minutes in a league or cup match. Worth remembering that there's not just Hibs who should have such a target - Aberdeen and Yamco 2014 should have similar ambitions every year and there will be other clubs (eg Dundee United, Motherwell) who can aspire to that as well but in their case it will be cyclical and dependant on the right manager and squad being in place. It's just that us, Aberdeen and Yamco 2014 have high (by SPL standards) budgets which should make it easier to compete every year.


*Given Sevco Huns' budget, we won't be able to compete with them over 38 games either once they enter the top flight so my aim would be revised to targeting third and a five year average of fourth. Maybe one cup every six years rather than five.

[Bobby's Cinema]

There is no lack of ambition for me. We simply have had bad managers who have failed to deliver. I believe that both CC and PF have been given or have resource greater than most SPL teams they just lack the papers to use them correctly.

Petrie does apoear to back his managers its just they are not worth backing. I feel people are looking to deeply into things it is simply certainly 2 bad appointments in a row. Fenlon has made his errors but the club has made serious errors before Pat arrived and then for me with Pat himself.

People at board level have come and gone but Petrie had a 0-7 and a 5-1 of his own with CC and he will have surley of had a hand at some level in PF joining. I do not know who but we need better decisions made with such key positions.

There is no point in backing our manager if he cant do the job. We need a manager fit to use the resources and we need people fit to appoint, this has gone on way to long and its disgraceful.

Agree entirely with all of this. Disgraceful indeed

[Brizo]

I see there's quite a few replies saying that lack of ambition isn't a factor and its purely down to picking the right Manager.

If we do have ambition as a Club, then can someone tell me what that ambition is? What do we want to achieve as a Club this season, in the next 5 years, in the next 10 years? I don't have a clue what that ambition is and unless the Hibs board are keeping there aspirations to themselves it sounds like they do not have a clue either.

Finishing in the bottom six as often as the top 6, winning the league cup 3 times in 40+ years, qualifying for European football only occasionally, a shocking derby record, no SC win for over 100 years and 2 of the worst humpings in our history occurring in recents seasons.

If the Hibernian Board do have ambition then it looks to me that they have spectacularly failed over a long period of time. Blaming the Manager for failure time after time won't move us forward.

I can agree or at least sympathise with most of the above.

I believe signing two of the key players from the St J team who finished 3rd spot in the league is the market we should be operating in. Proven SPL pedigree players taken from teams who did better than us. In effect cherry picking the SPL players the OF haven't already cherry picked. For too long we have gambled on unproven or failed lower English league players. Added to the signings of Vine and Craig, the outlay on Collins shows the Board showing some ambition.

I believe PR is one of our biggest problems. No one wants a return to the Duff and Gray media circus but the uber conservative nature of Petrie and STF doesn't help. As with all things theres a happy medium which could be achieved.

The CF crowds and Thursdays crowd prove that despite all the stats which THA quite rightly and accurately quoted, the Hibs support is out there just waiting for the slightest glimmer of hope to turn out in numbers. The club can only harness that support by continuing to strengthen the team in areas we all know need strengthened. They have made a good start with the signings made but they cant afford to now sit back. That SPL market I mentioned before needs to be gone back into.

Given our resources and crowd potential there is no reason why we shouldn't do what teams with lesser of both did last season. If we don't the responsibility for that will imo be shared by PF and the Board.

[gegs70]

:top marks

We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.

[Mikey]

Folk trot out this line every time we fail, when they say we lack ambition what they really mean is they want us to spend more money.

We spend each season what we bring in and more, hence losing money. And thats after spending more than most teams in the SPL.

Here's a novel idea, instead of saying we lack ambition, why don't we demand the clown thats running our club appoints a manager who actually knows what he's doing for a change.

Then that manager spends the available budget wisely, and sets up a team properly with a purpose and entertaining way of playing football.

If thats not possible, then why does he not just **** off and let one of the other 99 Petries have a go?

Spot on sir.

Perhaps upping the budget for the manager's salary would entice a more experienced candidate, who would be more likely to get it right.

Although having said that, Hughes had been a manager for a while.....................

Spending more than we have is just storing up trouble.

[21.05.2016]

We have a state of the art training complex and a greater player budget than most SPL sides yet we still see the likes of St Johnstone, Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc. do better than us. It's not about spending more money, it's about spending the money wisely and having a manager that is able to bring out the best in players and make the best of the players he has. Look at last season for example, Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone all finished above us. Their playing budgets will be much lower than ours and they haven't got the state of the art training complex facilities that we have but they manage to get the best out of mediocre players and make the best out of what they have and obviously it pays off, where as perhaps our players might be a bit too pampered and have a believe they are better than they are.

As mentioned above in a previous post, I certainly wouldn't want us to go about our business like the rangers and hearts did, spending millions and millions we don't have on players way out of our budget because although it would bring instant gratification and short term success, the long term implications are far worse and I most defiantly don't want to be in the mess hearts are in a few years down the line, fighting for our very existence.

[neil7908]

There is no lack of ambition for me. We simply have had bad managers who have failed to deliver. I believe that both CC and PF have been given or have resource greater than most SPL teams they just lack the papers to use them correctly.

Petrie does apoear to back his managers its just they are not worth backing. I feel people are looking to deeply into things it is simply certainly 2 bad appointments in a row. Fenlon has made his errors but the club has made serious errors before Pat arrived and then for me with Pat himself.

People at board level have come and gone but Petrie had a 0-7 and a 5-1 of his own with CC and he will have surley of had a hand at some level in PF joining. I do not know who but we need better decisions made with such key positions.

There is no point in backing our manager if he cant do the job. We need a manager fit to use the resources and we need people fit to appoint, this has gone on way to long and its disgraceful.

This 100% - how many managers and players have come and gone in the last few years that have led the club to mediocrity at best, or failure at worst. You change the manager repeatedly, you change the players many, many times and still success alludes you - surely we have to start looking at the one constant in all this - Petrie.

I dont want to have a go at him personally, he's managed the clubs finances quite well but we have made some very poor choices in picking our managers over the years.

We've backed them well financially, I dont know our exact budget but I suspect all were operating with a budget better than the majority of teams in the SPL and right now it must be close to, if not the 2nd highest. Under Fenlon we've pinched Clancy, OTJ, Vine and Craig from our rivals - I'd imagine the only reasons they would join a club that has finished lower than their present teams is largely due to increased wages.

Looks like were going to spend on Collins and did spend on guys like Stokes and even smaller fees for people like Rankin and Nish if I recall correctly.

The fact is the managers have been backed, I dont think the board as sitting with a secret pile of cash they could give to the manager but just dont bother to.

But put simply, ever since the appointment of Mowbray, how many good managers have we brought in? Of the guys that have resigned/been sacked, how many have gone on to great things? We've hired poor managers and they have signed poor players or signed decent players and not known what to do with them.

That is far and away the boards biggest failing. I think Fenlon's time is up but I am concerned that if he goes, the same folk will be picking the new manager and I'm not confident the right choices will be made this time.

[Kaiser1962]

Maybe one cup every six years rather than five.

The Scottish Cup has been awarded 127 times with Hibs having competed in 122 of those tournaments, winning it twice. The League Cup has been played for 67 times, Hibs have competed in all of these tournaments and won it three times. Five successes in 189 attempts.

Just to add a bit of historical perspective.

[gegs70]

:top marks

We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.

[gegs70]

:top marks

We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.

[Mikey]

We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.


We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.


We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.

You need a new phone :greengrin

[Andy74]

A few days ago we were probably only a winger and a centre half away from the squad being complete.

Time to get a grip.

Thursday was shocking. A disgrace. Lets not get carried away though eh? The self loathing drama queen everything is wrong attitude is all a bit far.

[blackpoolhibs]

A few days ago we were probably only a winger and a centre half away from the squad being complete.

Time to get a grip.

Thursday was shocking. A disgrace. Lets not get carried away though eh? The self loathing drama queen everything is wrong attitude is all a bit far.

There's a difference Andy from being ok in the SPFL to having your nose rubbed in some dog sheite, and realizing just how far we have gone backwards, are how far we are from competing in Europe.

[Emerald]

A few days ago we were probably only a winger and a centre half away from the squad being complete.

Time to get a grip.

Thursday was shocking. A disgrace. Lets not get carried away though eh? The self loathing drama queen everything is wrong attitude is all a bit far.

You are 100% correct, it IS time to get a grip and empty this manager. Drama queens, are you for real? This is Scotlands worst EVER European performance and you tell folk they are drama queens WTF are you on about. Hibs under Pat Fenlon are a shambles and a disgrace.

[Andy74]

There's a difference Andy from being ok in the SPFL to having your nose rubbed in some dog sheite, and realizing just how far we have gone backwards, are how far we are from competing in Europe.

Agreed but the why are so many looking at this as a sign of how we will do in the SPL?

I mean we are even bringing up the 1-5 game again.

The result was horrendous but we are in no different shape than we were last week. Most felt we were beginning to look like a strong squad was coming together.

Last year WAS progress in all sorts of ways. The amount of pretending now that it was not is pathetic.

[Andy74]

You are 100% correct, it IS time to get a grip and empty this manager. Drama queens, are you for real? This is Scotlands worst EVER European performance and you tell folk they are drama queens WTF are you on about. Hibs under Pat Fenlon are a shambles and a disgrace.

Just what Im on about. Last year seen big progress and yes many disappointments too. A shambles though ? Thursday yes, but that's not generally true is it?

[Emerald]

Agreed but the why are so many looking at this as a sign of how we will do in the SPL?

I mean we are even bringing up the 1-5 game again.

The result was horrendous but we are in no different shape than we were last week. Most felt we were beginning to look like a strong squad was coming together.

Last year WAS progress in all sorts of ways. The amount of pretending now that it was not is pathetic.

You may be right with that but you can't tell people thay are drama queens, Thursday was as bad as it gets and folk are angry about where Hibs have got to. You can't go name calling worried Hibs fans, they care about the club and calling folk drama queens is the pits to be honest.

[gegs70]

:top marks

We are underachieving. But I am assuming that other clubs on lesser budgets are doing well, butche, adamson, mccall, Wright....some aopear to be fairly consistent. We need a good manager first Fenlon was the cheap option and has given us some of the most humiliating results in our history....we should start there....he kept us up first season but the only thing that saved him was 2 cup runs. I agree we need more money but that wont happen now.

[gegs70]

You need a new phone :greengrin

Yes dont quite know how that happened....

[blackpoolhibs]

Agreed but the why are so many looking at this as a sign of how we will do in the SPL?

I mean we are even bringing up the 1-5 game again.

The result was horrendous but we are in no different shape than we were last week. Most felt we were beginning to look like a strong squad was coming together.

Last year WAS progress in all sorts of ways. The amount of pretending now that it was not is pathetic.

I agree on the progress, it was minimal but there was some. Thursday was horrendous, and rightly folk are asking questions.

When i look at his whole tenure, i personally think he's not learning at all about what this club is all about.

I look at the way he has set us up in all our recent big games, and have disagreed on his formation and tactics in every one.

You or anyone else can call this a knee jerk reaction, but any manager who leads a hibs team to a 7-0 home defeat and in the way it happened should imo be instantly sacked.

I have backed him since he arrived, but Thursday was one bad day at the office too much for me.

[gegs70]

I agree on the progress, it was minimal but there was some. Thursday was horrendous, and rightly folk are asking questions.

When i look at his whole tenure, i personally think he's not learning at all about what this club is all about.

I look at the way he has set us up in all our recent big games, and have disagreed on his formation and tactics in every one.

You or anyone else can call this a knee jerk reaction, but any manager who leads a hibs team to a 7-0 home defeat and in the way it happened should imo be instantly sacked.

I have backed him since he arrived, but Thursday was one bad day at the office too much for me.

And 1apology too many....

[gegs70]

If fenlon is going to go it needs to be now so a manager coming in can make some changes!

In addition fenlon made a comment about not knowing what stage "connollys negotions were at" sounds a little lame to me!!

[steakbake]

If fenlon is going to go it needs to be now so a manager coming in can make some changes!

In addition fenlon made a comment about not knowing what stage "connollys negotions were at" sounds a little lame to me!!

He may not know... I'm sure he doesn't handle the negotiations.

[3pm]

I don't know if it's a lack of ambition - I just think the standards are so low.

If you are being realistic we should be challenging for 3rd when Celtic and The Rangers are in the league. They aren't so I reckon challenging for 2nd should be the aim at this moment in time.

We may not finish 3rd (or 2nd) every year but the challenge should be there. That should be the minimum. In Scottish terms, we are a big club.

There is nothing particularly ambitious about that. That's what should just happen.

We've made such a pig ear of the main footballing decisions over the last 8 years that we have very little show for our efforts. Consequently, the standards at the club have fallen to such a level that we now get confused about what's ambitious. We can't see the woods from the trees now....

We are better than that. We deserve better than that.

Changes need made.

[Onion]

This 100% - how many managers and players have come and gone in the last few years that have led the club to mediocrity at best, or failure at worst. You change the manager repeatedly, you change the players many, many times and still success alludes you - surely we have to start looking at the one constant in all this - Petrie.

I dont want to have a go at him personally, he's managed the clubs finances quite well but we have made some very poor choices in picking our managers over the years.

We've backed them well financially, I dont know our exact budget but I suspect all were operating with a budget better than the majority of teams in the SPL and right now it must be close to, if not the 2nd highest. Under Fenlon we've pinched Clancy, OTJ, Vine and Craig from our rivals - I'd imagine the only reasons they would join a club that has finished lower than their present teams is largely due to increased wages.

Looks like were going to spend on Collins and did spend on guys like Stokes and even smaller fees for people like Rankin and Nish if I recall correctly.

The fact is the managers have been backed, I dont think the board as sitting with a secret pile of cash they could give to the manager but just dont bother to.

But put simply, ever since the appointment of Mowbray, how many good managers have we brought in? Of the guys that have resigned/been sacked, how many have gone on to great things? We've hired poor managers and they have signed poor players or signed decent players and not known what to do with them.

That is far and away the boards biggest failing. I think Fenlon's time is up but I am concerned that if he goes, the same folk will be picking the new manager and I'm not confident the right choices will be made this time.

Starting to think they might be choosing the right managers ! And that they're using different criteria to the fans. Our priorities might be:

able to spot a good player
great tactical awareness
ability to motivate
construct and manage a winning team
help generate good team spirit
maintain discipline
coach and develop
beat Hearts
win a cup
win the cup

the Board's criteria might well be:

can work with limited budget
get on with Chairman
undemanding (own wages & player funds)
unlikely to be coveted by other clubs
good with press
develop our youngsters
sense of humour
doesn't overwork the players in training (risking player revolt)
deflects fans anger away from Board
great dress sense
doesn't get too pissed off when we lose/doesn't get funds for new players
listens to others (esp Chairman)

If that's the case all they need to do is tell us :cb

[Paisley Hibby]

I don't understand how you can go from being a self-professed 'happy clapper' to questioning the entire structure, vision and ambition of the club after one game. I'm not saying it's wrong to question it, just that I don't understand how it can all change on one game. When I form an opinion on Hibs, it tends to form over time/games.

I'd turnn it round. Given just how unbelievably bad and humiliating that one game was I can't understand how anybody could remain as a happy clapper after it.