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bigwheel
27-07-2013, 07:51 AM
A painful read, but a good opinion piece by Graham Speirs in the Herald today. Not sure how to put in a link. It's hard to read but sometimes the truth hurts. Check it out, would be interested to know what others think....

ronaldo7
27-07-2013, 07:55 AM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-leith.21718556

WhileTheChief..
27-07-2013, 07:59 AM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-leith.21718556

He's got it spot on.

oldbiker
27-07-2013, 08:03 AM
sad but so very true

HibbyAndy
27-07-2013, 08:03 AM
Pushovers for to long. He got that right.

Hibs have the heart of a mouse.

coco22
27-07-2013, 08:05 AM
Sums up a collection of views from here and is accurate in summing up. He stops short of saying what needs to happen next yet it is obvious that those looking in from the outside see the problems that need fixing. No easy answers though.

Fenlon is lucky to still be in a job but must have a very short rope to play with now.

HibeeMG
27-07-2013, 08:06 AM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-leith.21718556

He's got it spot on.

No, I'm sorry, he's got it all wrong......












Falkirk weren't managed by Steven Pressley in the Cup Semi.

The rest is bang on.

Pretty Boy
27-07-2013, 08:06 AM
Agreeing with Spiers goes against almost everything I stand for.

But that piece pretty much nails it.

As a club we are ridiculously soft and only actions as opposed to words will change that.

Thecat23
27-07-2013, 08:07 AM
100% Spot on. Couple on here won't like it!! Everyone in the game knows what Petrie is like. He may get the odd deal and save a couple of pounds.

It's time there was a huge shake up at the club. Starting from the top. His choice of managers is Terrible. Thanks for steadying the ship but enough is enough.

Hibernia Na Eir
27-07-2013, 08:08 AM
110% spot on Mr Speirs

Hibernia Na Eir
27-07-2013, 08:10 AM
there will be others out there who could still steady the ship but do far, far better for this club!

Allant1981
27-07-2013, 08:11 AM
Who is going to buy petrie out though? there is no money to be made in scottish football unless you pump mega millions in to get into the latter stages of europe by which point you are probably only going to get back what you have spent anyway

YehButNoBut
27-07-2013, 08:11 AM
A good article by Speirs seems to sum things up well.

Just find it hard to believe Fenlon is still with Hibs, he is obviously not up to the job and Thursday has left him mortally wounded.

Better to get someone new in now whilst there is still a month of the transfer window left and he has a chance to bring in his own players than leave it till later when there is no chance of this, Petrie needs to act now.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 08:13 AM
A few points about Spiers article:

With our budget and league we play in more or less any managerial appointment is a bit of a gamble. But given his record in ROI Fenlon's appointment looked to be a decent one. Dundee Utd seemed to think he was worth appointing and they tend to do OK with their appointments.

Yet another reference to something being wrong at the heart of the club, but the only constant throughout our steady decline as players, managers and coaching staff and board members come and go is Rod Petrie. I fully believe he has far too much control over everything that happens at ER and Fenlon is the latest manager to find working with him to be "difficult"

It's been said before but if Fenlon does leave then Petrie has to follow him, otherwise I have no doubts we will find ourselves in a similar position in a few years.

HIBERNIAN-0762
27-07-2013, 08:14 AM
100% correct in that piece.

We need a much more ruthless set up and must have an owner and a board that match what we want.

Far too many "sheep" at Easter Road, quite happy to trot away into the night after another embarrassing defeat and turn up at the next game as if nothing is wrong.

Time to show some steel and get this great club back on top.

I've said if for years now but like I always say It won't happen soon, I want STF to invite tenders to buy the club even just to test the water and see who comes forward with an offer, I think even he knows the system in place although a very good business set up just isn't working where it counts, on the pitch.

Hope it happens....very soon.

Pretty Boy
27-07-2013, 08:15 AM
there will be others out there who could still steady the ship but do far, far better for this club!

Not aimed at you but the phrase 'steadying the ship' gets right on my tits. It's such an uninspiring ambition to be given to any manager.

Can just see fans in the pub now:

'I really enjoyed that steady 1-1 draw', 'that narrow 1-0 defeat and dull performance was nice and steady', 'YES! A 7th place finish, steady does it'.

Waxy
27-07-2013, 08:16 AM
He has most of it correct. Though it's an awful result for us it does show how bad a 0-7 defeat at home is. Oh it must have destroyed the yams in 73. A result we must always be proud of.

Captain Trips
27-07-2013, 08:17 AM
Not aimed at you but the phrase 'steadying the ship' gets right on my tits. It's such an uninspiring ambition to be given to any manager.

Can just see fans in the pub now:

'I really enjoyed that steady 1-1 draw', 'that narrow 1-0 defeat and dull performance was nice and steady', 'YES! A 7th place finish, steady does it'.

Spot on again. I think we usually disagree on stuff as well do we not.

Thecat23
27-07-2013, 08:18 AM
Agreeing with Spiers goes against almost everything I stand for.

But that piece pretty much nails it.

As a club we are ridiculously soft and only actions as opposed to words will change that.

I'm the same, I never agree with him but that is a very good article. Petrie fans will find that hard to swallow. Thing is most of us who want Petrie to go appreciate what he's done. But it's what he's now doing is the problem.

Any argument against him we just hear, but look at our neighbours!!! What folk dont understand is we won't go down that way, we're not stupid. But look at how good Well have done, or Ross County or ICT. Hibs need a new direction. People who are panicking if Petrie goes are either the ones he speaks to or the ones who get match day tickets from and can't see past him.

All I'm saying is look at the bigger picture here! We have had this man at the helm for a long, long time. He sorted us in a bad time and I'll always be thankful. But the past 4 years stink, maybe longer so I hope to god he leaves soon and a new man with a new vision takes us forward.

Who that man is? We don't know, that's what the owner of the clubs job is not mine.

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-07-2013, 08:18 AM
RP does the money side better than any other SFPL Chairman but his football judgment is suspect. Sometimes successful people lose sight of where their own abilities start and end and maybe it will take an equally strong and successful person to point that out. I would pay Geoff Brown at St Johnstone a hefty finders fee to get a new manager for us.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:18 AM
A few points about Spiers article:

With our budget and league we play in more or less any managerial appointment is a bit of a gamble. But given his record in ROI Fenlon's appointment looked to be a decent one. Dundee Utd seemed to think he was worth appointing and they tend to do OK with their appointments.

Yet another reference to something being wrong at the heart of the club, but the only constant throughout our steady decline as players, managers and coaching staff and board members come and go is Rod Petrie. I fully believe he has far too much control over everything that happens at ER and Fenlon is the latest manager to find working with him to be "difficult"

It's been said before but if Fenlon does leave then Petrie has to follow him, otherwise I have no doubts we will find ourselves in a similar position in a few years.

I'd agree with that . I think that's also the point Speirs is making . Without new leadership and a different ambition , nothing will change . Petrie has taken us nowhere for since Mowbray left . Frankly he has been too long in charge . All companies need fresh leadership and new thinking . His strategy has failed. He has failed to bring football success , failed with management appointments , failed to bring in new income and also failed to sell the club (although he has tried ) . New leadership , new ambition and new manager required .

SlickShoes
27-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Yep, spot on.

We are a club with a great stadium, training complex and history, sadly we have no soul. This is what being sensibly run like a business does to a football club, which is why most football clubs are not run this way.

Baader
27-07-2013, 08:22 AM
Everyone has a shelf life in football and Petrie is past his. I feel he should have walked after the whole calderwood debacle - appointing him was bad enough but to knock back money and then have to pay him off later showed a staggering lack of judgement that cost the club.

Captain Trips
27-07-2013, 08:24 AM
The fact Petrie survived the whole CC debacle then got backed after it if I remember correctly by STF just shows how difficult change there is and that is key area needing a fix.

Petrie should have resigned the day he sacked CC.

patch1875
27-07-2013, 08:25 AM
Still can't believe Fenlon is still in a job.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 08:27 AM
It may be standard practice across all clubs in Scotland, I don't know, but a source of frustration for Fenlon throughout his time at Hibs is how the playing budget is used. At all other clubs he was with he was given a budget and allowed to spend it however he saw fit. so if that meant he had a few high earners supplemented by a number of lower paid players that was his choice to make. Not so at Hibs where Petrie has full control. More than once Fenlon has been left wondering how he has lost out on players to the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren......

weonlywon6-2
27-07-2013, 08:28 AM
A painful read, but a good opinion piece by Graham Speirs in the Herald today. Not sure how to put in a link. It's hard to read but sometimes the truth hurts. Check it out, would be interested to know what others think....

Yep,hes spot
The feeling gets worse each day after that.
Shame is there is no easy fix as i along with a lot of others thought we might be going places.

We should make andy webster an offer,yeah hes slow but good pro and would improve us at the back

KeithTheHibby
27-07-2013, 08:30 AM
Does Rod Petrie not own part of the club? 10% perhaps?

If so he isn't just going to walk away now is he?

The choice of manager over the years has been poor, Mowbray, Collins and McLeish being the exception.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Does Rod Petrie not own part of the club? 10% perhaps?

If so he isn't just going to walk away now is he?

The choice of manager over the years has been poor, Mowbray, Collins and McLeish being the exception.

He can still be a shareholder without being Chairman.. He can still be ousted. It would require Farmer to want it to happen.

The Leith Dutch
27-07-2013, 08:32 AM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:35 AM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.

Thats a perfectly achievable way of organising. What would be required though was an alignment around objectives (e.g. sporting success comes first), and the new team being allowed to spend the agreed budget with that goal in mind. If Petrie was to retain control over spending it wouldn't work.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 08:37 AM
Thats a perfectly achievable way of organising. What would be required though was an alignment around objectives (e.g. sporting success comes first), and the new team being allowed to spend the agreed budget with that goal in mind. If Petrie was to retain control over spending it wouldn't work.

See my previous post bigwheel, to an extent this is what Fenlon wanted.

Spike Mandela
27-07-2013, 08:41 AM
Ouch.............just Ouch!!:take that

Waxy
27-07-2013, 08:43 AM
I said before Petrie would probably then pick the guy who would run the football side, then lo and behold he would pick a dud. We can't win until Petrie gets sacked for football crimes against Hibs.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:44 AM
Does Rod Petrie not own part of the club? 10% perhaps?

If so he isn't just going to walk away now is he?

The choice of manager over the years has been poor, Mowbray, Collins and McLeish being the exception.


We could always take some real action and create a fans fund specifically to buy him out. We could do it on the basis that he leaves post and new leadership and ambition is committed to buy the other shareholders... 10% of Hibs - Im guessing anything £1M + would see him take the deal... So, if we could get £500 from 2000 people (or any combination) we could probably get his shares and a seat on the board...

I know that comes over a bit FoH...but let's not knock the good bits about what they are doing - creating a real voice and attempting some ownership of their club.

Just an idea....

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:47 AM
See my previous post bigwheel, to an extent this is what Fenlon wanted.

read it now....Thats exactly the issue. A mismatch between football goals and the financial control. I'm not saying we should lose good financial management, but just focus on whats key, and help the football side as much as possible.

Waxy
27-07-2013, 08:48 AM
Yeh. We could set up a DD website and get fans to put in what they can afford.

Phil D. Rolls
27-07-2013, 08:49 AM
In all of this, and going against the modern fad for supporter ownership and the like, what Hibs seem to lack is an old-fashioned heavyweight chairman, a man whose hands-on, ego-steeped ambition might permeate throughout the club.


F FS when will these fuds ever do some real work? An old fashioned chairman like. Romanov or Mercer. Is that what he means.

There is a sub-text to what has happened in Edinburgh football. A morality tale. Ego drives one club to bankruptcy, yet no-one wants to offend them.

They become the victims, and the club that tries to live within its means is pilloried. If StnJohnstone had suffered this result would the treatment be the same?

carnoustiehibee
27-07-2013, 08:52 AM
Surely the fans should take some responsibility aswell tho!

ano hibby
27-07-2013, 08:52 AM
The soft centre / lack of soul is no better exemplified by Fenlon still being in a job this morning. This is but part of the issue though, ownership / governance needs to change. Quite simply for all the good RP has done his appointment record is not good enough.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 08:54 AM
read it now....Thats exactly the issue. A mismatch between football goals and the financial control. I'm not saying we should lose good financial management, but just focus on whats key, and help the football side as much as possible.

Of course and I don't think any of us are suggesting we should not exercise good financial management, but personally I believe if you trust a manager enough to appoint him in the first place then you show that same trust in allowing him to manage his own budget. That of course relies on appointing the right manager in the first place......

Bristolhibby
27-07-2013, 08:56 AM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.

A director of Football(ing Strategy).

A football man who does not get bogged down in the day to day management of the team, but ensures our Strategy is correct in a footballing capacity.

Its an appointment that is often scoffed at, but IMO its exactly what Hibs need. Lets be clear, he's not the manager, but will have the "brain" function for implementing football strategy, from scouting, to training, health, fitness, diet, culture, manager appointment, and be the link between the manager and the chairman.

Thoughts?

J

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 08:57 AM
Of course and I don't think any of us are suggesting we should not exercise good financial management, but personally I believe if you trust a manager enough to appoint him in the first place then you show that same trust in allowing him to manage his own budget. That of course relies on appointing the right manager in the first place......

And if Petrie doesn't support the manager he put in place by securing the players they want, it's them that get sacked not Petrie... That"s happened for years now..

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 09:00 AM
A director of Football(ing Strategy).

A football man who does not get bogged down in the day to day management of the team, but ensures our Strategy is correct in a footballing capacity.

Its an appointment that is often scoffed at, but IMO its exactly what Hibs need. Lets be clear, he's not the manager, but will have the "brain" function for implementing football strategy, from scouting, to training, health, fitness, diet, culture, manager appointment, and be the link between the manager and the chairman.

Thoughts?

J

I wouldn't mind that set up, but it's only as good as the footballing ambition. Without new ambition nothing will fundamentally change. It could be funded by combining the Chairman and CEO roles.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 09:05 AM
And if Petrie doesn't support the manager he put in place by securing the players they want, it's them that get sacked not Petrie... That"s happened for years now..

Indeed, but while STF owns the club it would appear that RP is untouchable. And if Fenlon does leave so the cycle continues. Although what I will say is despite what I have heard and believe about RP's influence at Hibs, Fenlon still should be doing a helluva lot better than he is doing.

Gatecrasher
27-07-2013, 09:08 AM
Speirs and the numpties on radio Scotland were slagging Hibs and fenlon from the start for not picking a Scottish Manager so it's no surprise when theres a set back they are happy to start slagging our club. Yes as a club we have our problems but sacking Fenlon now isn't the answer. Also if reports are to be believed we just spent £200k on one of his targets so the board are invested in him and the team. Fenlon will be here for the start of the season at the very least. Just a couple of days ago this article would have been seen as the press having another go at our club.

Aldo
27-07-2013, 09:13 AM
Sportsound pundits are anti hibs ENDOF... Stopped listening to them ages ago after Preston laughed at a Hibs player being sent off and his coupon a certain to come up. I'm all for banter but for the whole of lady season every time there was a live game it was 5-1 this and 5-1 that it was like watching an England game and them mentioning 66.

This was one of the reasons they got banned from ER for the last few games.

Call it sour grapes but the board are hopefully going to monitor this and if they start they're pish again then the will get told to GTF.

Hibernia&Alba
27-07-2013, 09:14 AM
I can only agree with Speirs in his analysis. Many of us said exactly the same after the Malmo game and have been saying it on Hibs.net and elsewhere for a long time. There seems to be no sense of direction long term.

gegs70
27-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Article is spot on.

The Leith Dutch
27-07-2013, 09:16 AM
A director of Football(ing Strategy).

A football man who does not get bogged down in the day to day management of the team, but ensures our Strategy is correct in a footballing capacity.

Its an appointment that is often scoffed at, but IMO its exactly what Hibs need. Lets be clear, he's not the manager, but will have the "brain" function for implementing football strategy, from scouting, to training, health, fitness, diet, culture, manager appointment, and be the link between the manager and the chairman.

Thoughts?

J


Works for me.

Doesn't matter whether Fenlon stays or goes until we sort out the underlying problems at the club.

Case in point being I don't think anyone would suggest that next season is looking great if we replaced Fenlon with Tommy Wright and signed the 14 St Johnstone players who got past Rosenborg.

Kaiser1962
27-07-2013, 09:17 AM
He can still be a shareholder without being Chairman.. He can still be ousted. It would require Farmer to want it to happen.

And Farmer dosent. He wishes he had 100.

Time marches on and it is inevitable that the Farmer/Petrie tenure will end, sooner rather than later, then lots of people will get their wish.

Ozyhibby
27-07-2013, 09:18 AM
It's all very well blaming Petrie but the steady as she goes attitude comes from the fans as much as the board.
Last season when I criticised the poor performances under Fenlon I was jumped all over on here by fellow fans saying incremental improvement was enough, that we shouldn't expect more, that Pat needs more time. Meanwhile teams with much smaller playing budgets cruised past us. All you could hear on Hibs.net was that 'Pat has improved us, maybe next year we can make a big push for the top 6'.
Fact is that any Hibs manager who does not make the top 6 is seriously under performing and should be considering his position.
Look at the poll on here. 25% think Pat is doing a good job. Seriously?
I went on a coaching course last year and was told a story about the 5-1 cup final. Hibs had been poor in the first half as we all know but had somehow managed to pull a goal back just before the break. The players made their way to the dressing room with fists clenched, no doubt hoping to turn things round in the second half. What happened next was that Pat Fenlon spent the next 15mins telling the teams how gash they were. How they were letting everyone down etc. By the time he was done the players left the dressing room with their heads down, scared to go out and make mistakes. When your scared of making mistakes, that exactly what you do. They are now using that on coaching courses as an example of what not to say to players at half time, how not to conduct a half time team talk.
Let's look at the last week. Harris, Mullen, Clancy, McPake, McGivern, and Cairney have all missed game time through muscle strains. What does that say about the quality of our pre season training regime? That so many players are missing from the first game of the season. Having not played a competitive game for 6 weeks and we can't get them on the pitch?
So it's all very well us blaming Petrie but when all the Hibs fans demand is mediocrity he can hardly be called a failure for delivering it. Fact is, before Thursday, those poll results would have been reversed and anyone with the opinion that Fenlon was not the man for the job was quickly shouted down on here.
If there is a softness at Hibs then it comes from the fans, not the board room.
Anyway, rant over, GGTTH. The holy grail of scrapping into the top 6 is within our grasp.

HUTCHYHIBBY
27-07-2013, 09:20 AM
Speirs normally gets an overly hard time on here, difficult to accept for some, but, that article pretty much sums us up at the moment tho.

J-C
27-07-2013, 09:23 AM
Very good article and unfortunately spot on. :confused:

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 09:25 AM
What happened next was that Pat Fenlon spent the next 15mins telling the teams how gash they were. How they were letting everyone down etc. By the time he was done the players left the dressing room with their heads down, scared to go out and make mistakes. When your scared of making mistakes, that exactly what you do. They are now using that on coaching courses as an example of what not to say to players at half time, how not to conduct a half time team talk..

Did Pat not get slaughtered for not abusing his players publicly following that defeat? He certainly did after the Celtic game.

southsider
27-07-2013, 09:27 AM
A good article by Speirs seems to sum things up well.

Just find it hard to believe Fenlon is still with Hibs, he is obviously not up to the job and Thursday has left him mortally wounded.

Better to get someone new in now whilst there is still a month of the transfer window left and he has a chance to bring in his own players than leave it till later when there is no chance of this, Petrie needs to act now.
After thursday night any manager with balls would have walked. He has been in charge of the two worst results in our history. How much more are we going to take ? Do we need supporter demo's outside E R ?

Ozyhibby
27-07-2013, 09:28 AM
Did Pat not get slaughtered for not abusing his players publicly following that defeat? He certainly did after the Celtic game.

Not by me? Why would any manager abuse his players? To appease fans? Thats not management.

brog
27-07-2013, 09:29 AM
I don't wish to reignite the whole JC debate & arguments about who was the most sh!! of his signings. However, whatever his faults & I'm sure there were plenty, JC was the only person to recognise the malaise within the club & to try to take steps to sort it out. Now he may have gone about it in the wrong manner but he did at least try to address it & was shamefully let down by RP. As for PF, I posted some time back I think he's a good man but not a good football manager. I feel sorry for him but he's out of his depth.

GreenArmy1875
27-07-2013, 09:32 AM
Personally i think we need to get a new man running our club. I said it a while back and got ripped to pieces but something is seriously wrong at the club and we can laugh at Hearts all we want but we are shambles. When do we stop taking this as fans and demand change at the top. We need a new chairman to run our club. Rod clearly has picked dud managers for years but has allowed this no work attitude which has seen us bottle it and not win things for years. The man who changed it (John Collins) won something and got no backing from our chairman when things got tough and he stuck by his lazy players. Until Mr Petrie gets his job at SPFL we will struggle time and time again. I am hurting badly from Thursday night yes but the pain has been going on for years.

We need a new leader of our club and a manager that knows what he is doing.

Rant Over

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 09:32 AM
And Farmer dosent. He wishes he had 100.

Time marches on and it is inevitable that the Farmer/Petrie tenure will end, sooner rather than later, then lots of people will get their wish.

STF has just turned 73.

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Personally i think we need to get a new man running our club. I said it a while back and got ripped to pieces but something is seriously wrong at the club and we can laugh at Hearts all we want but we are shambles. When do we stop taking this as fans and demand change at the top. We need a new chairman to run our club. Rod clearly has picked dud managers for years but has allowed this no work attitude which has seen us bottle it and not win things for years. The man who changed it (John Collins) won something and got no backing from our chairman when things got tough and he stuck by his lazy players. Until Mr Petrie gets his job at SPFL we will struggle time and time again. I am hurting badly from Thursday night yes but the pain has been going on for years.

We need a new leader of our club and a manager that knows what he is doing.

Rant Over


Can you explain this?

Other than meeting with disgruntled players I mean? After that.

The Green Goblin
27-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Just a couple of days ago this article would have been seen as the press having another go at our club.

Before the 9-0 aggregate humping, worst result in scottish european competition history and worst hibs result in 123 years you mean?

Gatecrasher
27-07-2013, 09:36 AM
Before the 9-0 aggregate humping, worst result in scottish european competition history and worst hibs result in 123 years you mean?
exactly. one result for me doesn't change everything. We had a strong end to last season and I think we will do well this season.

banarc7062
27-07-2013, 09:37 AM
If the majority of us Hib's fans and the press can see our shortcomings surely the comom denominator in our downward spiral must be our old friend Rod. As Spiers say, or indicates, Petrie lacks a passion for our Club and any will to push performances to the highest limit, except of course, on the balance sheet where we are continual champs. I am glad I have the memories of our performances from the past, not always winning, but solid playing for the shirt performances. GGTTH

The Green Goblin
27-07-2013, 09:38 AM
exactly. one result for me doesn't change everything. We had a strong end to last season and I think we will do well this season.

We had a strong end in the bottom six, not the top. Don't you think that result does change things? Doesn't it point to a worrying state of affairs?

neil7908
27-07-2013, 09:41 AM
I realise the club has to tread a dangerous line in terms of our spending - Hearts and Rangers are clear examples of where things can go horribly wrong if we overspend.

My issue with the board isn't so much about budgets, its about the managers they are appointing to spend them.

If you look at the players, coaches and managers that have come and gone over the years, one thing has remained constant - Petrie. If you have a period of failure with different coaches and totally different players over the space of 3-4 managers, surely we need to start looking at the one constant.

Our budget is very, very competitive for the SPL - that doesn't guarantee success but it should give a good manager a decent chance.

The fact is that we just have not appointed the right managers, pure and simple. Fenlon needs to go but who has any faith in the board to appoint someone any better?

banarc7062
27-07-2013, 09:43 AM
Can you explain this?

Other than meeting with disgruntled players I mean? After that.
In my opinion Petrie should have told any disgruntled player to see their manager to sort out any problems they may have thought they had. Collins for me had the correct approach to fitness tactics and approach to games.

Gatecrasher
27-07-2013, 09:43 AM
We had a strong end in the bottom six, not the top. Don't you think that result does change things? Doesn't it point to a worrying state of affairs?
Whether it's the top or bottom 6 they are still SPL teams and that included Aberdeen, Hearts and Kilmarnock. It was a very poor result but I'm not going to go start calling for the managers head and jumping up and down in a rage over it. We have a very young team who crumbled against a far better side, thats not going to reflect what will happen this season IMO.

Captain Trips
27-07-2013, 09:43 AM
It's all very well blaming Petrie but the steady as she goes attitude comes from the fans as much as the board.
Last season when I criticised the poor performances under Fenlon I was jumped all over on here by fellow fans saying incremental improvement was enough, that we shouldn't expect more, that Pat needs more time. Meanwhile teams with much smaller playing budgets cruised past us. All you could hear on Hibs.net was that 'Pat has improved us, maybe next year we can make a big push for the top 6'.
Fact is that any Hibs manager who does not make the top 6 is seriously under performing and should be considering his position.
Look at the poll on here. 25% think Pat is doing a good job. Seriously?
I went on a coaching course last year and was told a story about the 5-1 cup final. Hibs had been poor in the first half as we all know but had somehow managed to pull a goal back just before the break. The players made their way to the dressing room with fists clenched, no doubt hoping to turn things round in the second half. What happened next was that Pat Fenlon spent the next 15mins telling the teams how gash they were. How they were letting everyone down etc. By the time he was done the players left the dressing room with their heads down, scared to go out and make mistakes. When your scared of making mistakes, that exactly what you do. They are now using that on coaching courses as an example of what not to say to players at half time, how not to conduct a half time team talk.
Let's look at the last week. Harris, Mullen, Clancy, McPake, McGivern, and Cairney have all missed game time through muscle strains. What does that say about the quality of our pre season training regime? That so many players are missing from the first game of the season. Having not played a competitive game for 6 weeks and we can't get them on the pitch?
So it's all very well us blaming Petrie but when all the Hibs fans demand is mediocrity he can hardly be called a failure for delivering it. Fact is, before Thursday, those poll results would have been reversed and anyone with the opinion that Fenlon was not the man for the job was quickly shouted down on here.
If there is a softness at Hibs then it comes from the fans, not the board room.
Anyway, rant over, GGTTH. The holy grail of scrapping into the top 6 is within our grasp.

Indeed. I wanted top 4 and believed that was possible if manager is right.

This season no change if Fenlon stays top 3 anything less is failure, do not think capable so new manager my target is same top 3. That target should be put to candidates and consideration given to those who believe.

cabbageandribs1875
27-07-2013, 09:49 AM
Ironically, a 7-0 result, cherished and ritualised by Hibs fans for over 40 years, has now been tarnished. No longer can this scoreline be flaunted and crowed about in the Edinburgh pubs and clubs.


ermmm why not :confused: it wasn't hertz that beat us 7-0 :rolleyes: or does this mean whenever hertz get beat 5-1(like they did 2 weeks ago) that they can't crow about 5-1 to us now ? we need to know

lucky
27-07-2013, 09:50 AM
Can't see a que of people wanting to buy Hibs. RP has done a great job for Hibs. Unfortunately some of the managers have not been up to the task. Hibs have a decent SPFL budget yet our managers are incapable of finding players to compete. As a support we have a big club mentality but reality is far from it. Scottish football is decades behind other small nations leagues as we try and compete with the English leagues. The real problems have yet to tackled by the SFA the latest reorganisation is just moving the chairs on a sinking ship.

marinello59
27-07-2013, 09:52 AM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.

Good question and it highlights where I feel the problems lie. Our business IS football. Every single board member should be seeing themselves as a Director of football. Every decision taken should be taken with the aim of driving the team on the park forward. Not consolidating our position, moving forward. Given that steady decline we have seen over several years how can anybody running our club say with sincerity that really has been the case?
Rod Petrie has done a lot of good things but he has been in position too long. Any fire he had in his belly has long gone as he relaxes in his comfort zone at Hibs. We need strong leadership from the top down, somebody who doesn't just want to see our club be all it can be but somebody that demands it. Somebody who sets standards and an ethos that everybody who turns up at Easter Road has to accept. Somebody who sees merely standing still as unacceptable. Petrie isn't that man, he should have gone along with Calderwood. Fenlon was his last roll of the dice. He crapped out.

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 09:55 AM
In my opinion Petrie should have told any disgruntled player to see their manager to sort out any problems they may have thought they had. Collins for me had the correct approach to fitness tactics and approach to games.

No argument with the bit in bold.

Had Petrie told them to bolt where would that leave the club legally? If you went to your managers manager and were told to take a hike how would you take it? And it was practically the entire squad that went, led by the club captain. What was Rod meant to do?

Michael Stewart was booted days later, who do you think did that?

As an aside there is another thread about foreign managers with different approaches which i would welcome but the whole culture of the game in Scotland, and socially, is sadly not conducive to this approach. As already alluded to elsewhere on this board both Collins and Le Guen tried to change it and failed.

carnoustiehibee
27-07-2013, 09:58 AM
Speirs in stating the bleeding obvious shock. :confused:

I learnt nothing new from what hes written and no doubt got some of his snippets from here.

God Petrie
27-07-2013, 09:59 AM
Why do people consider Collins a good appointment? He was a complete and utter disaster.

Kaiser1962
27-07-2013, 10:05 AM
Ironically, a 7-0 result, cherished and ritualised by Hibs fans for over 40 years, has now been tarnished. No longer can this scoreline be flaunted and crowed about in the Edinburgh pubs and clubs.


ermmm why not :confused: it wasn't hertz that beat us 7-0 :rolleyes: or does this mean whenever hertz get beat 5-1(like they did 2 weeks ago) that they can't crow about 5-1 to us now ? we need to know

Or by Oldhun in the 95-96 SC Final?

Green Fish
27-07-2013, 10:09 AM
The article was pretty accurate, so, what do us fans do to try to change things?

It is clear that RP doesn't intend to overhaul the way the club is run. I will continue to support the manager, for as long as he is there. The players confidence is bound to be shot and any negativity from the crowd won't help.

GreenOnions
27-07-2013, 10:19 AM
Regarding Spiers' article: I understand what he's saying - and I beilieve that there is sufficient in the debate to be seriously concerned. However, Spiers is doing the easy bit - pointing out what's wrong and stating the obvious point that it shouldn't happen. The hard part is the bit that journalists don't have to worry about - proposing and implementing solutions then being held accountable for the results.

IMHO I think up to now Pat Fenlon has done enough - by the skin of his teeth - to justify remaining in post. However, prior to this defeat - although there were some concerns and disappointments - he had a comfortably positive approval rating. This has now evaporated and Pat, and Hibs, have to deliver this season.

It also needs to be apparent in the first round of games that his team is performing well. My own view is that this season is the first one where Pat has to take 100% responsibility for results. Most of Calderwood's players have gone and he has been backed by the club in bringing in new players. He has a squad that's his and he needs to finish in the top 4 in my view with also a cup run to justify the club's and supporters' backing.

FWIW - I think he'll do it.

connerg
27-07-2013, 10:24 AM
Does Rod Petrie not own part of the club? 10% perhaps?

If so he isn't just going to walk away now is he?

The choice of manager over the years has been poor, Mowbray, Collins and McLeish being the exception.

Not sure if Petrie was the chairman when we appointed McLeish. Think it was Tom O'Maley?

PaulC
27-07-2013, 10:26 AM
Speirs in stating the bleeding obvious shock. :confused:

I learnt nothing new from what hes written and no doubt got some of his snippets from here.


Absolutely agree, Speirs could have written that article from just reading hibs.net. When leaving ER the other night I though of what Petrie should do.

If Fenlon offered Petrie his resignation then it should be accepted. But if he doesn't then I would hope Petrie works with Pat to lift the spirit of the club going into the new season.

Lets be honest the game was over as soon as the first went in.....it was a cup tie, i would have preferred the score wasn't what it was but the game was over at 0-1 on the night.

Tarnish the 0-7 Derby memory, aye right do one Spiers....we lost 7-0 to Rangers and bounced back with a Derby victory......do some proper research you lazy hack........

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Regarding Spiers' article: I understand what he's saying - and I beilieve that there is sufficient in the debate to be seriously concerned. However, Spiers is doing the easy bit - pointing out what's wrong and stating the obvious point that it shouldn't happen. The hard part is the bit that journalists don't have to worry about - proposing and implementing solutions then being held accountable for the results.

IMHO I think up to now Pat Fenlon has done enough - by the skin of his teeth - to justify remaining in post. However, prior to this defeat - although there were some concerns and disappointments - he had a comfortably positive approval rating. This has now evaporated and Pat, and Hibs, have to deliver this season.

It also needs to be apparent in the first round of games that his team is performing well. My own view is that this season is the first one where Pat has to take 100% responsibility for results. Most of Calderwood's players have gone and he has been backed by the club in bringing in new players. He has a squad that's his and he needs to finish in the top 4 in my view with also a cup run to justify the club's and supporters' backing.

FWIW - I think he'll do it.

I'd love you to be right. What, other than hope, gives you a feeling he will get it right? Since he has come in we have been a very easy team to score against. We are not resilient in defence. Both down the sides or straight through the middle we are soft touches and leak goals. I can't see any evidence that this has been addressed.

Last year we looked like scoring. We always expected to score at least one. Hopefully Collins will contribute with goals, but I can't see us equalling last seasons tally of goals as a team. So at the moment, with this squad, I can't see progress.

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 10:39 AM
I think what he's written is full of crap and guesswork, i keep hearing something is rotten at the core of Easter road?

On this thread someone states we should let the manager manage the funds how he'd like, and if that means some players on high wages supplemented by others on lower wages.

Well that very question was asked at the AGM a couple of years ago and the manager said he was in charge of the budget, and could do this if he wanted.

I'm no Petrie lover, in fact i think his time is up. Yet every manager HE has appointed has been backed, they have had more money than the majority of the SPL.

We have spent money on players over the last few seasons, Riordan, Nish, Rankin to name a few. Now £200k on Collins.

What is it that is rotten to the core, the posse of players who went to see Petrie at his home were told to go and have it out with JC, none of them were backed they were told to get on with doing their best for Hibs.

If folk are blaming that, then its got to be Lewis Stevenson who's to blame, he's the rotten apple as he's the last one left from that time?

Petrie and his board are to blame for burdening us with clueless ********s as managers, thats the reason we are so bloody crap.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 10:50 AM
I think what he's written is full of crap and guesswork, i keep hearing something is rotten at the core of Easter road?

On this thread someone states we should let the manager manage the funds how he'd like, and if that means some players on high wages supplemented by others on lower wages.

Well that very question was asked at the AGM a couple of years ago and the manager said he was in charge of the budget, and could do this if he wanted.

I'm no Petrie lover, in fact i think his time is up. Yet every manager HE has appointed has been backed, they have had more money than the majority of the SPL.

We have spent money on players over the last few seasons, Riordan, Nish, Rankin to name a few. Now £200k on Collins.

What is it that is rotten to the core, the posse of players who went to see Petrie at his home were told to go and have it out with JC, none of them were backed they were told to get on with doing their best for Hibs.

If folk are blaming that, then its got to be Lewis Stevenson who's to blame, he's the rotten apple as he's the last one left from that time?

Petrie and his board are to blame for burdening us with clueless ********s as managers, thats the reason we are so bloody crap.

So on another thread you said a completely new direction is needed...now on this thread you say it's simply poor manager choice by Petrie and the board....good consistency..

Iain G
27-07-2013, 10:55 AM
Why do people consider Collins a good appointment? He was a complete and utter disaster.

Yeah that cup win was a complete and utter disaster right enough :confused:

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 11:00 AM
So on another thread you said a completely new direction is needed...now on this thread you say it's simply poor manager choice by Petrie and the board....good consistency..

Two completely different subjects? :confused: Just to make it more simple for you, i was questioning Speirs article on whats happened in the PAST.

The thread about Hibs, a new direction is about what i would like to see in the FUTURE. I hope this has made it clear for the hard of reading?

TheDude
27-07-2013, 11:03 AM
I've always been a backer of the long term aims of Petrie, put the club on a solid footing now and reap the benefits in the future. The alternative being a short term frantic spending of cash leading to the type of disaster currently being seen down Gorgie way. Even 5 years ago it didn't take much foresight to suggest that the Hearts where on the road to major disaster and that Hibs long term plans provided a far greater chance for success in the future..

After presiding over two games that easily go down as the most embarrassing of my lifetime as a supporter, Fenlon is clearly a man on borrowed time. The problem is we've seen this all before; ambitious manager with a decent CV gets appointed, the team continues to under-perform, other teams around us make similar appointments which provide success, we eventually run of patience and the hunt starts for a new manager to return the glory days to Easter Road. Repeat ad nauseum.

It's hard for someone who backed Petrie for so long to say this but its become clear that his time with Hibs needs to come to an end. I've no wish to see all the great work he's put in behind the scenes undone with wild investment, Hibs need to continue on a stable financial footing for the long term good of the club. Clearly something needs to change for the club to pull itself out it malaise and sacking another manager isn't going to do it this time.

GreenOnions
27-07-2013, 11:07 AM
I'd love you to be right. What, other than hope, gives you a feeling he will get it right? Since he has come in we have been a very easy team to score against. We are not resilient in defence. Both down the sides or straight through the middle we are soft touches and leak goals. I can't see any evidence that this has been addressed.

Last year we looked like scoring. We always expected to score at least one. Hopefully Collins will contribute with goals, but I can't see us equalling last seasons tally of goals as a team. So at the moment, with this squad, I can't see progress.

Well - it's the million dollar question isn't it?

I suppose asking me what I think will happen given the squad we've got at the moment would get a different answer to what I might think will happen once our transfer window business is concluded.

It's all going to be about the additional two or three new players that come in. I'm happy with Craig, Collins, Vine, Tudur-Jones and Mullen. These are positions that needed to be strengthened. You could say that they've replaced (respectively) Wotherspoon, Doyle, Griffiths, Deegan and Kujabi.

I think even at the moment our overall squad looks potentially slightly stronger than last year but there are at least two absolutely critical first team signings that still need to be made - particularly a central defender and someone else who can score goals - perhaps an attacking midfielder/winger with a bit of pace or a striker.

My optimism really is based on the emergence of Forster and Harris, the positive-looking signings we've made, the departure of several players clearly not up to standard and the fact that we still have budget for the extra two or three players we need.

If we can sign even just a quality central defender and someone else who can score goals I think there's every chance that we could achieve our objectives this year.

Defence:
Lost: Kujabi, Maybury
Gaining: Forster, Mullen and, hopefully, a new central defender.
This would be stronger than we were last season I think?

Central Midfield:
Lost: Deegan, Claros
Gaining: Tudur-Jones
Clearly Jorge is a quality player but I would argue that we don't have the resources to retain Taiwo, Thomson and Claros and then bring in Tudur-Jones. I am hoping the the arrival of OTJ will give us more physical presence in this area which might give us better balance despite the loss of Jorge.

Attacking areas:
Lost: Wotherspoon, Doyle, Kuqi and Griffiths
Gaining: Harris, Craig, Vine, Collins and, hopefully another striker/winger who can score goals.
Griffiths is the only serious loss here and he's irreplaceable. However, we may now have better balance again with a striker in who has physical presence. I am also hoping that we may generate more of a general attacking threat as we will have more players who can cause problems as opposed to last year when, once Cairney went off the boil, Griffiths was our only real threat.

Are you any more persuaded :wink:

lord bunberry
27-07-2013, 11:14 AM
It's all very well blaming Petrie but the steady as she goes attitude comes from the fans as much as the board.
Last season when I criticised the poor performances under Fenlon I was jumped all over on here by fellow fans saying incremental improvement was enough, that we shouldn't expect more, that Pat needs more time. Meanwhile teams with much smaller playing budgets cruised past us. All you could hear on Hibs.net was that 'Pat has improved us, maybe next year we can make a big push for the top 6'.
Fact is that any Hibs manager who does not make the top 6 is seriously under performing and should be considering his position.
Look at the poll on here. 25% think Pat is doing a good job. Seriously?
I went on a coaching course last year and was told a story about the 5-1 cup final. Hibs had been poor in the first half as we all know but had somehow managed to pull a goal back just before the break. The players made their way to the dressing room with fists clenched, no doubt hoping to turn things round in the second half. What happened next was that Pat Fenlon spent the next 15mins telling the teams how gash they were. How they were letting everyone down etc. By the time he was done the players left the dressing room with their heads down, scared to go out and make mistakes. When your scared of making mistakes, that exactly what you do. They are now using that on coaching courses as an example of what not to say to players at half time, how not to conduct a half time team talk.
Let's look at the last week. Harris, Mullen, Clancy, McPake, McGivern, and Cairney have all missed game time through muscle strains. What does that say about the quality of our pre season training regime? That so many players are missing from the first game of the season. Having not played a competitive game for 6 weeks and we can't get them on the pitch?
So it's all very well us blaming Petrie but when all the Hibs fans demand is mediocrity he can hardly be called a failure for delivering it. Fact is, before Thursday, those poll results would have been reversed and anyone with the opinion that Fenlon was not the man for the job was quickly shouted down on here.
If there is a softness at Hibs then it comes from the fans, not the board room.
Anyway, rant over, GGTTH. The holy grail of scrapping into the top 6 is within our grasp.

That is just completely untrue, if you can find any posts saying that our ambition for this season is to scrape into the top 6 I will be amazed. From what I read most people were saying anything less than top 4 this season would be completely unacceptable.

bigwheel
27-07-2013, 11:15 AM
Two completely different subjects? :confused: Just to make it more simple for you, i was questioning Speirs article on whats happened in the PAST.

The thread about Hibs, a new direction is about what i would like to see in the FUTURE. I hope this has made it clear for the hard of reading?

Yes rudeness is always the way to prove your point ....I'm so glad you have convinced me now ..

Your post quite clearly stated the reason we are in this mess was poor manager choices . You make a different point in another thread about the reasons we have issues and yes you do say what we should do about them (albeit flawed ).

Anyway, always a joy ...

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Yes rudeness is always the way to prove your point ....I'm so glad you have convinced me now ..

Your post quite clearly stated the reason we are in this mess was poor manager choices . You make a different point in another thread about the reasons we have issues and yes you do say what we should do about them (albeit flawed ).

Anyway, always a joy ...

I asked everyone to pick the bones out of the new direction thread, as and i'm sure you wont understand but here i go anyway.

Petrie has appointed manager after manager thats failed, bar Mowbray. Collins won a trophy but then left us in a mess.

None of these managers had us anywhere near reaching the Europa league stages. Thats why i said we should go in a different direction.

Now again this might be too difficult for you to understand, but being half decent in the SPL and qualifying for the group stages of the Europa league needs completely different types of players to the ones we currently employ.

The managers we have recently employed only seem to sign british players with the odd exception, a foreign manager would know the foreign market a lot better in my opinion and be more comfortable signing from that market.

Hence a new direction, and a different managers outlook. :rolleyes:

DH1875
27-07-2013, 11:35 AM
exactly. one result for me doesn't change everything. We had a strong end to last season and I think we will do well this season.


Dude, c'mon, it's not only one result though is it.

Iain G
27-07-2013, 11:37 AM
I asked everyone to pick the bones out of the new direction thread, as and i'm sure you wont understand but here i go anyway.

Petrie has appointed manager after manager thats failed, bar Mowbray. Collins won a trophy but then left us in a mess.

None of these managers had us anywhere near reaching the Europa league stages. Thats why i said we should go in a different direction.

Now again this might be too difficult for you to understand, but being half decent in the SPL and qualifying for the group stages of the Europa league needs completely different types of players to the ones we currently employ.

The managers we have recently employed only seem to sign british players with the odd exception, a foreign manager would know the foreign market a lot better in my opinion and be more comfortable signing from that market.

Hence a new direction, and a different managers outlook. :rolleyes:

So average, overpaid, spineless, fragile, one dimensional foreign players instead of British and Irish ones then :wink::greengrin

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 11:40 AM
So average, overpaid, spineless, fragile, one dimensional foreign players instead of British and Irish ones then :wink::greengrin

Naw, that what i want to leave behind. :greengrin

Gatecrasher
27-07-2013, 11:41 AM
Dude, c'mon, it's not only one result though is it.
what I meant by that part was that there was a feel good factor around the club before the game, we were spending a bit of cash to bring in a striker, ST sales better than last year and signed a couple of other promising signings. For me Thursday was a shocker but one result doesn't change much in terms of how things will pan out. It also means that one result won't have me calling for Fenlons head. If we get off to a good start this season the moans will quiet.

lord bunberry
27-07-2013, 11:52 AM
what I meant by that part was that there was a feel good factor around the club before the game, we were spending a bit of cash to bring in a striker, ST sales better than last year and signed a couple of other promising signings. For me Thursday was a shocker but one result doesn't change much in terms of how things will pan out. It also means that one result won't have me calling for Fenlons head. If we get off to a good start this season the moans will quiet.
That's what I've been saying, before thursday everyone was really positive about this season.

Iain G
27-07-2013, 11:56 AM
Naw, that what i want to leave behind. :greengrin

Hopefully someone who can unearth the next Lilian Martin then :wink:

Seriously though I think the only real way that we will get change is when Rod steps up his role within the SPL/SFA scene and needs to hand the day to day running of Hibs to someone else; I know we seem to have tried this before with Scott Lindsay et al but for whatever reasons it has reverted to Rod.

I like Fenlon and want him to go well, but he isn't helping himself with team selections (Lewis at Left Back, TWICE against the same opposition?!) or this kind of feeble capitulation.

But now he has to prove himself this season and, with 2 or 3 key signings still to come, if he can add a strong spine to this team then maybe this season can be a good one for us? IMHO he needs to think further about clearing out more than Spoony from the past few years of underachieving teams, time to consider getting rid of Hanlon and Lewis perhaps? Whatever happens has to turn it back around soon if he wants to keep his job :agree:

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 12:23 PM
Not sure if Petrie was the chairman when we appointed McLeish. Think it was Tom O'Maley?

Was it not Lex Gold?

3pm
27-07-2013, 12:25 PM
Was it not Lex Gold?

Think so. The bold Lex walked when we were relegated.

At least he had a bit dignity!

RIP
27-07-2013, 12:33 PM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.

Petrie runs Hibs with an iron fist. He makes every decision at Hibs and yet has absolutely no track record in running a successful sports business

He is an internal auditor, an accountant, an administrator

And most importantly he has been at the helm of this club for too long - 17 years

Scottish Football is going through a major re-alignment and we need a younger, stronger CEO and leader to restructure our football club from top to bottom

Time to organise another meeting with Farmer

jeffers
27-07-2013, 12:39 PM
On this thread someone states we should let the manager manage the funds how he'd like, and if that means some players on high wages supplemented by others on lower wages.

Well that very question was asked at the AGM a couple of years ago and the manager said he was in charge of the budget, and could do this if he wanted.

Yup I said that and stand by it. I realise I have no credibility on this forum as far as being in the know, but I know what I was told and believe it to be true.

eastterrace
27-07-2013, 12:45 PM
what I meant by that part was that there was a feel good factor around the club before the game, we were spending a bit of cash to bring in a striker, ST sales better than last year and signed a couple of other promising signings. For me Thursday was a shocker but one result doesn't change much in terms of how things will pan out. It also means that one result won't have me calling for Fenlons head. If we get off to a good start this season the moans will quiet.

yes your right it is only one result, but what with the big crowd we had the chance to get some of these guys back, but im afraid we might have lost some of these for ever. its the hibs way

cabbageandribs1875
27-07-2013, 12:53 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

ancienthibby
27-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Petrie runs Hibs with an iron fist. He makes every decision at Hibs and yet has absolutely no track record in running a successful sports business

He is an internal auditor, an accountant, an administrator

And most importantly he has been at the helm of this club for too long - 17 years

Scottish Football is going through a major re-alignment and we need a younger, stronger CEO and leader to restructure our football club from top to bottom

Time to organise another meeting with Farmer

A bit like Speirs in his article you make some valid points, but neither get to the real issue.

Petrie is really an apparatchik in STF's empire. He is the kind of business manager that STF wants 100 of in his other businesses. He is given a budget, a plan and is tasked with delivery. That it is a sports business makes not one whit of difference.

The STF business model will be required to be self sufficient in cash resources. Petrie will have to manage on a cash neutral basis and make no calls on central funds. If cash investment is required for new projects such as East Mains that needs to be done through generating cash internally (ie player sales) or mortgaging fixed assets such as the East Stand.

Petrie is a model apparatchik in the STF empire. No overtures to STF will get him ousted.

He may not be a real football man, but I do think his managerial appointments reflect that he is quite amenable to the voice of the fans, as in the hiring of Collins, Mixu and Hughes. He went 'outside the box' to hire Mowbray (and Calderwood to a certain extent!) which shows he is open to innovation while his appointment of Fenlon showed he wanted to revert to a tried and tested route - hire success from another league in the hope that will be transferable.

It seems to me that Feckless Fenlon, if he has any moral fibre in him at all, should only return to Edinburgh to clear out his house. Jimmy Nichol (a manager with European experience!) should be made Manager with Ian Murray (Dumbarton) hired as his assistant. Fenlon should be put on gardening leave which will moderate the cash outflow.

:greengrin

IMHO

lord bunberry
27-07-2013, 01:18 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner, he's a classless buffoon, even if what he says is correct

Big Ed
27-07-2013, 01:20 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

This (especially the bit in bold) is more relevant than anything Spiers has written.

SaulGoodman
27-07-2013, 01:22 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

We were ****.

But that's classless from him, if you win 7-0 there's no need for statements like that.

Unless its from us :greengrin

silverhibee
27-07-2013, 01:29 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

a right kick in the baws that is.

Onion
27-07-2013, 01:30 PM
Agree with pretty much everything said in that piece. Last season and for the next couple of seasons at least, we have a rare opportunity to capitalise on the weakness of the Huns, Yams and others. But instead it's other, much smaller clubs who are taking advantage, while our team, manager and Board spend time baling water out of a sinking ship. The mentality at the club is all wrong from the top down.

The_Horde
27-07-2013, 01:36 PM
They were lucky mcpake was useless and had a massive hand in that first goal that killed the tie. It was obvious after that the hibs players heads went down and they started to look like boys against men. After that it was utterly embarrassing how easily they beat us with one, two touch passing. Passing I've not seen hibs use in a long, long time.

The_Horde
27-07-2013, 01:41 PM
Also, just to back spiers article up. Even our latest crop of youngsters. I really like the look of Harris in particular but not one of them has that edge that your riordans, browns, O'connors and thomsons etc had when breaking through to the team. They all fought for each other, played for each other and won for each other. When they conceded they gave each other the verbals. It wasnt good enough! They look like nice kids and probably are good pros, but they just don't have that.

I haven't seen this from any of our players since.

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Yup I said that and stand by it. I realise I have no credibility on this forum as far as being in the know, but I know what I was told and believe it to be true.

So you would rather believe someone you know, when the complete opposite was said at the AGM by the board in front of however many were there? :confused:

jeffers
27-07-2013, 02:06 PM
So you would rather believe someone you know, when the complete opposite was said at the AGM by the board in front of however many were there? :confused:
Given who it was that told them, YES.

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 02:09 PM
Given who it was that told them, YES.

Come on then spill the beans, my source was the manager and chairman and was witnessed by hundreds.

Your source?

jeffers
27-07-2013, 02:14 PM
Come on then spill the beans, my source was the manager and chairman and was witnessed by hundreds.

Your source?
OK fair enough, I don't like reading posters who say they know something and won't back it up. My mate knows Fenlon.......

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 02:17 PM
OK fair enough, I don't like reading posters who say they know something and won't back it up. My mate knows Fenlon.......

I wasnt expecting that :cb

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 02:22 PM
OK fair enough, I don't like reading posters who say they know something and won't back it up. My mate knows Fenlon.......

I don't believe you, and the reason i say this is Fenlon said he could spend his budget anyway he liked.

So either Fenlon is a liar, or your mate is.

Which one is it?

jeffers
27-07-2013, 02:28 PM
I don't believe you, and the reason i say this is Fenlon said he could spend his budget anyway he liked.

So either Fenlon is a liar, or your mate is.

Which one is it?
I could care less if you believe me. I remember Colin Calderwood coming out in public and stating that if he wanted to break the club's transfer record he would go to the board and they would provide the funds. Did you believe that too ?

silverhibee
27-07-2013, 02:31 PM
I suggest you have a word with yourself.

:agree:

When he is so wrong as well.

Springbank
27-07-2013, 02:34 PM
I think Fenlon has good players at his disposal (the Petrie part) and a good set of facilities to work with them(ditto)

He appears to me to set up these players in a timid system that invites the opposition to have their lunch and fill their boots

As Tony and JC would call it, their key job with young talented Hibs players was to give them "game intelligence"

We have none and we don't look like pat has any to pass on
Backwards industrial football awaits (and it will be unsuccessful)

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 02:36 PM
I could care less if you believe me. I remember Colin Calderwood coming out in public and stating that if he wanted to break the club's transfer record he would go to the board and they would provide the funds. Did you believe that too ?

I believe direct answers to questions from the manager and board members at the AGM. Are you now saying he lied in front of the many who were there?

Jones28
27-07-2013, 02:42 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-played-like-bunch-kindergarten-2094858


MALMO ace Simon Thern reckoned Hibs players were so bad they looked like a bunch of nursery kids.


Thern said: “Once we started playing we passed the ball quickly and made them look like they were a bunch of kindergarten kids.
“It was clear they were playing for the crowd at the start. They started making big slide tackles in front of their 16,000 fans so they could get big cheers.
“And they tried to get extra energy from it. But we quickly made them frustrated.”


:(

Even if it is true there is no class in a statement like that.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 02:51 PM
I believe direct answers to questions from the manager and board members at the AGM. Are you now saying he lied in front of the many who were there?

I wasn't at the AGM, but if you tell me he said it I believe you. I probably shouldn't have said anything as I'm sure my mate won't be happy with me making this public. BUT my mate has absolutely no reason to lie. Maybe at the time Fenlon said it at the AGM he believed it was the case, but reality was something different. Maybe he was told to say that, I don't know. All I do know is that this is what Fenlon told him.

You asked for my source, I gave it. You choose not to believe me, fair enough.

Dashing Bob S
27-07-2013, 02:52 PM
All obvious stuff, pretty much what the more enlightened souls on this forum have been saying for a long time. You don't expect originality or insight from Scottish journalists but fair play to him for raising the issue.

Don't agree about 7-0 being tarnished, if anything its put it back on the map. As the thread says "there's nothing more humiliating than losing 7-0 at home."

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 02:54 PM
I wasn't at the AGM, but if you tell me he said it I believe you. I probably shouldn't have said anything as I'm sure my mate won't be happy with me making this public. BUT my mate has absolutely no reason to lie. Maybe at the time Fenlon said it at the AGM he believed it was the case, but reality was something different. Maybe he was told to say that, I don't know. All I do know is that this is what Fenlon told him.

You asked for my source, I gave it. You choose not to believe me, fair enough.

No, this is what your mate said Fenlon told him. :aok:

Ray_
27-07-2013, 02:54 PM
RP does the money side better than any other SFPL Chairman but his football judgment is suspect. Sometimes successful people lose sight of where their own abilities start and end and maybe it will take an equally strong and successful person to point that out. I would pay Geoff Brown at St Johnstone a hefty finders fee to get a new manager for us.

Nobody would have been saying that if he didn't have the land sale and golden generation to rescue his highly inaccurate reputation.

jeffers
27-07-2013, 02:57 PM
No, this is what your mate said Fenlon told him. :aok:

Yeah fair enough, got me there BH.

Hibercelona
27-07-2013, 03:05 PM
The club is managed along cold business lines but, in terms of football, it has a very soft mentality.

Sums it all up in an instant for me.

And it's not that we don't spend enough money on players. We just don't get them performing anywhere close to what they're capable of.

It's been the same problem for years.

cabbageandribs1875
27-07-2013, 03:10 PM
The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner, he's a classless buffoon, even if what he says is correct





This (especially the bit in bold) is more relevant than anything Spiers has written.


We were ****.

But that's classless from him, if you win 7-0 there's no need for statements like that.

Unless its from us :greengrin


a right kick in the baws that is.


Even if it is true there is no class in a statement like that.


classless indeed, a professional football player should never be saying stuff like that about fellow professionals, or indeed another football player at ANY level :agree:




All obvious stuff, pretty much what the more enlightened souls on this forum have been saying for a long time. You don't expect originality or insight from Scottish journalists but fair play to him for raising the issue.

Don't agree about 7-0 being tarnished, if anything its put it back on the map. As the thread says "there's nothing more humiliating than losing 7-0 at home."



exactos, i've no idea why the yamboids are getting all wet and excited..they can have the 5-1 "cheaters final", but 5 ain't 7 and it ain't even 6, they can gloat when they've finally got scorelines like that against us :agree:

oregonhibby
27-07-2013, 03:29 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.

Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.

Dashing Bob S
27-07-2013, 03:33 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.

Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.

Never. I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag.

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 03:39 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.

Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.

Pretty much sums it up for me. I always cringe when Hibs fans sing at the Aberdeen fans "You're not famous anymore." Sad fact is that neither are we

Sir David Gray
27-07-2013, 03:47 PM
Pretty much sums it up for me. I always cringe when Hibs fans sing at the Aberdeen fans "You're not famous anymore." Sad fact is that neither are we

Is that mainly due to the fact that they sing;

Stand free wherever you may be
We are the famous Aberdeen...?

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 03:50 PM
Nobody would have been saying that if he didn't have the land sale and golden generation to rescue his highly inaccurate reputation.


But he did have so saying we wouldnt is hypothetical.

Hibercelona
27-07-2013, 03:51 PM
Pretty much sums it up for me. I always cringe when Hibs fans sing at the Aberdeen fans "You're not famous anymore." Sad fact is that neither are we

In all fairness, it's not as if we refer to ourselves as "The Famous".

Aberdeen fans genuinely believe that they're massive European giants. Only second to the yams in their delusions.

Part/Time Supporter
27-07-2013, 03:52 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.

Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.

I agree with that, but it doesn't explain why Hibs have been unable to punch their weight within Scotland, since the good young players in the mid 2000s were sold. If Hibs were at least able to do that, then we could worry about whether they could compete effectively in a European context. At the moment that concern is largely irrelevant, because (as Lewis Stevenson said to the papers) "Hibs don't qualify that often".

Hibercelona
27-07-2013, 03:53 PM
Is a prodestant the same as a protestant?

Nope. A Prodestant is to a Caffolick as a Protestant is to a Catholic. :agree:

Hope this clears things up. :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 03:53 PM
In all fairness, it's not as if we refer to ourselves as "The Famous".

Aberdeen fans genuinely believe that they're massive European giants. Only second to the yams in their delusions.

With 2 more European trophies than us, I'd say they're entitled to their "delusion".

Emerald
27-07-2013, 03:54 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.

Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.
True, but plucking a manager from a third rate part time league when technology and modern ideas are getting utilised at the bigger full time modern clubs can't have been the best idea the Hibs board have ever had!

ancienthibby
27-07-2013, 03:55 PM
Is a prodestant the same as a protestant?

One hath a lisp the other doeth'nt.:greengrin

Hibercelona
27-07-2013, 03:56 PM
With 2 more European trophies than us, I'd say they're entitled to their "delusion".

We've beaten Barcelona and Real Madrid. Perhaps we're entitled to still believe that we're better than them?

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 03:59 PM
Is that mainly due to the fact that they sing;

Stand free wherever you may be
We are the famous Aberdeen...?

Maybe. Like we sing we're the famous Hibees

oregonhibby
27-07-2013, 03:59 PM
I agree with that, but it doesn't explain why Hibs have been unable to punch their weight within Scotland, since the good young players in the mid 2000s were sold.

Probably because the priorities changed to complete the ground and build a training ground. Also the revolving door managerial practice can hardly help. The annual spend on the player revolving doors will include pay offs so the average that goes around gets smaller = lesser players.

Yes we are solvent and we live within our means which is great but it also means we see the results we do. Ever decreasing circles. I am neither a doom merchant or a happy clapper but a realist. Speirs is at least not saying the whole of our league is great but is pointing out a chronic problem - we can't compete.

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 04:00 PM
Is a prodestant the same as a protestant?

No. One is correctly spelled and the other is a made up word from someone who needs to step away from the sangria :wink:

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 04:01 PM
We've beaten Barcelona and Real Madrid. Perhaps we're entitled to still believe that we're better than them?

Perhaps. We still sing about Mee and Shankly. It's what football supporters do.

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 04:05 PM
Perhaps. We still sing about Mee and Shankly. It's what football supporters do.


Robert or William?

marinello59
27-07-2013, 04:07 PM
I think is is a very brutal but accurate summing up of the situation. What it fails to cover is that the whole world of football has moved on and our days of punching our weight is well past.Better coaching abroad, better quality and the most significant in my view is the money needed to compete. It needs money to build and money to sustain and at Hibs we have neither. It is no use saying that we spend more money other than the top 2 because quite frankly they and the rest aren't up to much either.

I fear Hibs best days are behind them and will never return.

I will still go along but what we are seeing is a terminal decline with some bright spots along the way. Hibs are not the Club they were 60, or even 40 years ago, much as it pains me to say. But not just Hibs are in decline the rest are too. A European league will help the rich and the rest will have to feed off the scraps.

Now where is the gin.

I don't really think he has to mention that in a European context, the decline has been going on so long the situation is sadly accepted by most Scottish football fans. But we are not even punching our weight domestically and that is unforgiveable. We should still expect to have many bright days within our own borders. It is not good enough to simply stand still which most Scottish clubs have done. Others, such as ourselves, appear to be going backwards. We should be doing better despite the financial constraints we have to work within.
The gin is right in front of me. Cheers.

Sir David Gray
27-07-2013, 04:09 PM
Maybe. Like we sing we're the famous Hibees

Yeah but we had the Famous Five. :wink:

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 04:10 PM
Robert or William?

Bill.

I smiled the other night when I heard the song. I wondered how many who sing it know who they are, let alone Bob's connection with us. Not a criticism, just an observation.... it's what football fans do, celebrate the past, sometimes not even knowing what that past is.

NAE NOOKIE
27-07-2013, 04:34 PM
Mr Speirs is bang on .. The Daily Mail ( fascist rag ) has two similarly damning articles today.

As you all know Galashiels has a rugby team. I've even been to watch them a few times. If I was minted and the egg chasers came to my door asking for help because they were going down the tubes I would help without a moments hesitation ( even if they do play in maroon ) Gala Rugby club is a big part of the community of Galashiels and means a lot to many people in the town and for that reason alone would be worth saving.

But the truth is that if 10 or 20 years down the line they were humped 100 - 3 by Hawick and then 150 - 0 by Melrose I would feel some pity for them and even wonder whats gone wrong ..... but I wouldnt be upset enough to kick the Cat* or not want to leave the house, or even go back into my pocket to spring for a couple of full time professional players.

That is the problem with the current ownership and board of Hibernian FC. STF is not a football fan and never has been and Rod Petrie is passionate about business ....... but football? ..... I have my doubts.

Even looking at things from a purely business point of view it seems to me that in the football industry any club which fails to recognize the correlation between success on the park and financial success off it is a club which will ultimately fail to deliver both on and off the pitch.

We have in place a manager who has now presided over the two biggest humiliations in the 138 year history of this proud club, not to mention that the latest one was the worst result in Scottish European football history. I am not and never have been one for shouting for the managers head at every setback .... but I doubt if there are more than a handfull of clubs in the whole world where the manager would be able to survive Thursday's debacle off the back of the previous one.

It is now clear that Sir Tom Farmer should publicly state that Hibernian Football Club is for sale .... Not to some johnny come lately who fancies a toy to play with, or some crook like the ones who gathered around the club formerly known as Rangers. But a serious football minded individual or organisation who want to make a serious attempt at taking this club to the level it should be at and hopefully beyond that. Dont give me talk about the economy either ..... during the great depression the one part of the great ocean liners which never failed to sell were the most expensive suites and cabins .. the same holds true today.

In the great football scheme of things Hibernian FC are a pretty bloody good proposition. Our debt is minimal. European football is ( or should be ) a realistic goal every year and the amount of money required to get us fighting it out at the top of the SPFL every season is laughable compared to the sums being paid out elsewhere in the world to buy and pay a single player.

And then there is this clubs greatest asset ..... Its supporters. What other club on the back of its worst ever result which had followed 4 of its most mediocre seasons could still manage to keep its home crowds at the level of last season and take 4,000 fans 60 miles to a cup quarter final and then 17,000 to a noon kick off 40 miles away which was live on two TV stations. That must be a club with huge potential. 16,000 for a game during the school holidays against a less than glamerous European club with little realistic chance of getting a positive outcome? ...... I mean C'mon !!!

There are clubs out there who's fans make loads of noise about being the best in the country, Europe, the World. What clubs supporters have as much evidence to back up a boast like that then ours?

But even that sort of passion cant last forever ..... our latest on field disaster will probably set us back a long way crowd wise and undo a lot of the great work done by the likes of section 43 to improve the atmosphere at ER. IMO we are one more show of spineless incompetence away from crowds of 5,000 and losing any chance of attracting new supporters for years to come. A month ago we were all salivating at the prospect of the first derby of the new season ......... Now Pat Fenlon and everybody in charge at Hibs must be dreading it. Any defeat of more than 1 - 0 in that game will be the final straw for many supporters. In fact anything less than a draw will probably do it.

I will support Hibs and go to watch them to the bitter end ................. What a pity that its beginning to look more and more like thats in spite of what the club does on the park rather than because of it !!!.

* Anybody who genuinely does kick the cat because of defeat in a football match need a good hammering !!!

HibbySpurs
27-07-2013, 04:49 PM
Haven't read the thread but have just read the article and it is in my opinion 100% right.

There is something wrong at hibs and for a long time I've felt that it isn't generally in the managers office.

Maybe Fenlon is the wrong man, maybe not but what I can't square here is the fact that we as fans have been slagging hearts fans for sitting in their hands and letting their club go to ruin. Well IMO I think we may be guilty of doing exactly the same albeit not in a financial sense.

The board are pushovers, the managers a pushover, the teams a pushover and we as fans are heading the same way sadly.

The time may be coming when we have to stand up in public and not behind a keyboard and scream from the rooftops that this is not good enough and we won't tolerate it.

Rant ends & it's just my two cents but I think there is a total malaise right through our club including us. We turn up get humped have a moan and then just repeat the cycle over and over again.

Thecat23
27-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Haven't read the thread but have just read the article and it is in my opinion 100% right.

There is something wrong at hibs and for a long time I've felt that it isn't generally in the managers office.

Maybe Fenlon is the wrong man, maybe not but what I can't square here is the fact that we as fans have been slagging hearts fans for sitting in their hands and letting their club go to ruin. Well IMO I think we may be guilty of doing exactly the same albeit not in a financial sense.

The board are pushovers, the managers a pushover, the teams a pushover and we as fans are heading the same way sadly.

The time may be coming when we have to stand up in public and not behind a keyboard and scream from the rooftops that this is not good enough and we won't tolerate it.

Rant ends & it's just my two cents but I think there is a total malaise right through our club including us. We turn up get humped have a moan and then just repeat the cycle over and over again.

Good post mate.

hibsbollah
27-07-2013, 04:55 PM
It's a fairly predictable piece, full of attacks on easy targets and some wooly thinking. There's definitely a lack of brain cells among Scottish football writers when Speirs is considered to be something of an intellectual.

Emerald
27-07-2013, 04:57 PM
Haven't read the thread but have just read the article and it is in my opinion 100% right.

There is something wrong at hibs and for a long time I've felt that it isn't generally in the managers office.

Maybe Fenlon is the wrong man, maybe not but what I can't square here is the fact that we as fans have been slagging hearts fans for sitting in their hands and letting their club go to ruin. Well IMO I think we may be guilty of doing exactly the same albeit not in a financial sense.

The board are pushovers, the managers a pushover, the teams a pushover and we as fans are heading the same way sadly.

The time may be coming when we have to stand up in public and not behind a keyboard and scream from the rooftops that this is not good enough and we won't tolerate it.

Rant ends & it's just my two cents but I think there is a total malaise right through our club including us. We turn up get humped have a moan and then just repeat the cycle over and over again.
You are 100% correct. There are folk on here trying to convince us that Pat Fenlon has improved us because we finished 7th. That is the attitude of losers IMHO. Hibs fans should no way accept that finishing 7th in this league should in any way be classed as ok, it is a failure. We have became brain washed by this transition pish and are accepting mediocrity as the norm. :top marks

cam2644
27-07-2013, 05:02 PM
The Herald article was unfortunately right. Some on this thread point out that Rod Petrie was put in place by Sir Tom Farmer to run a "business". By that criterion he has failed miserably.Any analysis would show that a football club "business" owes everything to performances on the pitch.Everything else flows from that.
Many of the players and managers who failed at ER have gone on to better things elsewhere.There is something rotten at the very core of the club.
Only Sir Tom Farmer can change things.I wonder how much longer he will tolerate the continuing decline.

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Bill.

I smiled the other night when I heard the song. I wondered how many who sing it know who they are, let alone Bob's connection with us. Not a criticism, just an observation.... it's what football fans do, celebrate the past, sometimes not even knowing what that past is.

Or where Highbury is/was :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Or where Highbury is/was :greengrin

Every day's a schoolday. I didn't even know until I googled it that it was a Liverpool song in the 70's, and that other sets of fans took it up.

My Dad's favourite comment on a Hibs song is "why do we hate Dundee?" :greengrin

Mikey
27-07-2013, 05:08 PM
Every day's a schoolday. I didn't even know until I googled it that it was a Liverpool song in the 70's, and that other sets of fans took it up.

My Dad's favourite comment on a Hibs song is "why do we hate Dundee?" :greengrin

Because it rhymes :wink:

Jonnyboy
27-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Every day's a schoolday. I didn't even know until I googled it that it was a Liverpool song in the 70's, and that other sets of fans took it up.

My Dad's favourite comment on a Hibs song is "why do we hate Dundee?" :greengrin

Have you seen it???? :greengrin


Because it rhymes :wink:

So does Airdreeee :wink: Anyway, we shouldn't hate Dundee, scene of the Sir Albert Kidd double :agree:

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE=Jonnyboy;3692122]Have you seen it???? :greengrin

:top marks

Robinho08
27-07-2013, 05:19 PM
Sadly, he has hit the nail on the head.

Kaiser1962
27-07-2013, 05:24 PM
Bill.

I smiled the other night when I heard the song. I wondered how many who sing it know who they are, let alone Bob's connection with us. Not a criticism, just an observation.... it's what football fans do, celebrate the past, sometimes not even knowing what that past is.


In terms of win %'s the third most successful Hibs manager ever, behind only Hugh Shaw and Jock Stein.

CropleyWasGod
27-07-2013, 05:26 PM
In terms of win %'s the third most successful Hibs manager ever, behind only Hugh Shaw and Jock Stein.

Like I say, every day's a school day. Cheers. :agree:

NAE NOOKIE
27-07-2013, 05:31 PM
Haven't read the thread but have just read the article and it is in my opinion 100% right.

There is something wrong at hibs and for a long time I've felt that it isn't generally in the managers office.

Maybe Fenlon is the wrong man, maybe not but what I can't square here is the fact that we as fans have been slagging hearts fans for sitting in their hands and letting their club go to ruin. Well IMO I think we may be guilty of doing exactly the same albeit not in a financial sense.

The board are pushovers, the managers a pushover, the teams a pushover and we as fans are heading the same way sadly.

The time may be coming when we have to stand up in public and not behind a keyboard and scream from the rooftops that this is not good enough and we won't tolerate it.

Rant ends & it's just my two cents but I think there is a total malaise right through our club including us. We turn up get humped have a moan and then just repeat the cycle over and over again.

This unfortunately is beginning to have a terrible ring of truth about it. There are countries in the world where the fans would have set fire to the stadium and been waiting at the training ground on Friday morning after a result like that. No I'm not advocating that we should do such things.

At the end of the Scottish Cup final I was proud of the fantastic show of stoic resistance by our fans ... it was brilliant. But the players would be wrong .... very wrong .... if they were under the impression that because of that it means that we are prepared to put up with any old crap and will always do that ... they are wrong !!!

The time of stoic come what may support is drawing to a close. The time for angry crowds behind the West Stand after matches is drawing near.

Kaiser1962
27-07-2013, 05:36 PM
Like I say, every day's a school day. Cheers. :agree:


Statistically Tom McNiven has a record of played 3/won 3 between Shankly leaving and Willie McFarlane taking over. But only three games (with Bob's team :greengrin) excludes him from the overall table, IMO.

lord bunberry
27-07-2013, 06:47 PM
You are 100% correct. There are folk on here trying to convince us that Pat Fenlon has improved us because we finished 7th. That is the attitude of losers IMHO. Hibs fans should no way accept that finishing 7th in this league should in any way be classed as ok, it is a failure. We have became brain washed by this transition pish and are accepting mediocrity as the norm. :top marks

Were has anyone said that finishing 7th is ok, finishing 7th is a complete failure for us.
Only last week people were talking about a feel good factor at the club and how pat was slowly turning round all the things that are being mentioned in this thread. If our club is rotten to the core as some people are suggesting then no manager is going to come in and get instant success.
I've always felt that this season was fenlons time to deliver a strong league position and a decent brand of football, if he doesn't he deserves to be sacked.
After years of being in the doldrums constantly changing managers I personally felt it was time to give someone the chance to rebuild the club from top to bottom. That in no way means I or anyone else I would imagine is prepared to accept bottom six finishes or early cup exits. Some people on here are using thursday night to have a dig at anyone who backed fenlon with gross misrepresentations of the position we took on his tenure so far.

Emerald
27-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Were has anyone said that finishing 7th is ok, finishing 7th is a complete failure for us.
Only last week people were talking about a feel good factor at the club and how pat was slowly turning round all the things that are being mentioned in this thread. If our club is rotten to the core as some people are suggesting then no manager is going to come in and get instant success.
I've always felt that this season was fenlons time to deliver a strong league position and a decent brand of football, if he doesn't he deserves to be sacked.
After years of being in the doldrums constantly changing managers I personally felt it was time to give someone the chance to rebuild the club from top to bottom. That in no way means I or anyone else I would imagine is prepared to accept bottom six finishes or early cup exits. Some people on here are using thursday night to have a dig at anyone who backed fenlon with gross misrepresentations of the position we took on his tenure so far.
There are people who have said that 7th was progress and next year 6th would be progress and the next 5th and so on. It is technically progress but we need to set our sights higher. I do agree that people have used Thursday to have a pop at the Fenlon backers but I have never thought he was right for the job and have not enjoyed his football. I have no idea what he is planning and have little faith that he can get it right. Good managers should be able to get a much quicker reaction than Fenlon has with a club like Hibs in a very weak SPL. If someone is to get the chance to rebuild the club I would rather give it to someone who had more experience than a manager steeped in part time Irish football. My opinion of course.

lord bunberry
27-07-2013, 07:20 PM
There are people who have said that 7th was progress and next year 6th would be progress and the next 5th and so on. It is technically progress but we need to set our sights higher. I do agree that people have used Thursday to have a pop at the Fenlon backers but I have never thought he was right for the job and have not enjoyed his football. I have no idea what he is planning and have little faith that he can get it right. Good managers should be able to get a much quicker reaction than Fenlon has with a club like Hibs in a very weak SPL. If someone is to get the chance to rebuild the club I would rather give it to someone who had more experience than a manager steeped in part time Irish football. My opinion of course.

I'm not completely convinced by him either, I just feel we have let him come this far we might as well give him the chance to finish the job.
Someone said on another thread that fenlon knows what needs to be done but their not sure he knows how to do it, I'm not yet convinced he doesn't know how to do it that's why I think he should be given more time. My opinion of course.

Glory Lurker
27-07-2013, 07:22 PM
There are people who have said that 7th was progress and next year 6th would be progress and the next 5th and so on. It is technically progress but we need to set our sights higher.

:agree:

No The Rangers, and the yams pure skint, means that we can only logically - given our means - aim for second. If there is any suggestion that anything less than this is a realistic target, that is madness. The absence of that pair, coupled with this being Pat's second full season with his own team, means that even if we are still in transition we should be at worse second by a nose.

Reality may well play out differently, but that's what makes me all the more scunnered about our team.

HibbySpurs
27-07-2013, 07:37 PM
The time of stoic come what may support is drawing to a close. The time for angry crowds behind the West Stand after matches is drawing near.

This 100%. If Thursday is indicative of the season ahead then something has to be done to force the board into action. Right now The continued silence from STF is deafening.

Don't ever get me wrong I remember the dark days of the early 90's and for what STF did then I will forever be grateful but what he once saved thru action may be on the verge if being destroyed by his and his representatives inaction.

Forever Hibs.

Devilstorment
27-07-2013, 07:41 PM
I don't fully understand company setups so apologies if this is ridiculous but -

Why can't Petrie run the business of the club and someone else be in charge of all the football related decisions?

Petrie would set the budget and then the football side of the business would run with it.


Like a Director of Football?

its another wage to pay at the end of the day

HibbySpurs
27-07-2013, 07:49 PM
Like a Director of Football?

its another wage to pay at the end of the day

Yes it is but a DoF may be part of the solution. Someone who understands the on the park side and who understands fans expectations and how to deliver them may help drive a hard nut winning ethos through the club.

I don't doubt RP'S business acumen for a second but his understanding of the sport as a sport is questionable (IMO)

HibeeHutch
27-07-2013, 09:07 PM
I think what he's written is full of crap and guesswork, i keep hearing something is rotten at the core of Easter road?

Petrie and his board are to blame for burdening us with clueless ********s as managers, thats the reason we are so bloody crap.

If you don't see a pattern of things being 'rotten' in 35+ years of ineptitude, malaise, brittleness and apathy then I think you must have extremely opaque green blinkers on.

Alfred E Newman
27-07-2013, 09:11 PM
This unfortunately is beginning to have a terrible ring of truth about it. There are countries in the world where the fans would have set fire to the stadium and been waiting at the training ground on Friday morning after a result like that. No I'm not advocating that we should do such things.

At the end of the Scottish Cup final I was proud of the fantastic show of stoic resistance by our fans ... it was brilliant. But the players would be wrong .... very wrong .... if they were under the impression that because of that it means that we are prepared to put up with any old crap and will always do that ... they are wrong !!!

The time of stoic come what may support is drawing to a close. The time for angry crowds behind the West Stand after matches is drawing near.

:top marks The acceptance of mediocrity by most of the support has contributed to the clubs steady decline. The board know that and is probably one of the main reasons Fenlon is still in a job today. I can't think of many clubs where the manager would have survived 2 such horrendous results. In fact a lot of clubs would have shown him the door after the Falkirk game.

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 09:13 PM
If you don't see a pattern of things being 'rotten' in 35+ years of ineptitude, malaise, brittleness and apathy then I think you must have extremely opaque green blinkers on.

Can you tell me the reason we have been all the things you say for the last 35 years?

Speirs couldn't?

IberianHibernian
27-07-2013, 09:17 PM
You are 100% correct. There are folk on here trying to convince us that Pat Fenlon has improved us because we finished 7th. That is the attitude of losers IMHO. Hibs fans should no way accept that finishing 7th in this league should in any way be classed as ok, it is a failure. We have became brain washed by this transition pish and are accepting mediocrity as the norm. :top marksI agree that club seems to lack ambition now and since a long time ago but not many fans or club employees if any considered 7th a success especially Fenlon who said openly that he considered 7th to have been a failure .

HibeeHutch
27-07-2013, 09:19 PM
We turn up get humped have a moan and then just repeat the cycle over and over again.

This is potentially our biggest problem now. That we have become comfortable with our weak and apathetic status as a club. One of the posters said he feared our best days were behind us never to return. Well, you can accept that or you can drive change and believe that Hibs can be better and give us more. I believe given our fan base we should be achieving more but I can't understand the fans who just want to lay down and accept that.

The Farmer/Petrie dynamic is interesting. It's paradoxically healthy and debilitating at the same time. We have a benefactor and a frugal financial manager who's ambition goes no further than balancing the books. I've said it before but as a club, organizations, football clubs balancing the books should not be our 'grand vision'. We don't even seem to have a high level, ambitious vision or goal to push us on. We're kind of in a straightjacket. If they would actively seek out fresh investment for the club and bring someone with football ambition into the fold it may start to readdress this situation; but of course, personal interests are being protected too.

HibeeHutch
27-07-2013, 09:28 PM
Can you tell me the reason we have been all the things you say for the last 35 years?

Speirs couldn't?

Two relegations. Countless Cup Final losses (2 LC victories). A litany of defeats to our Edinburgh neighbours to the point of subjugation. A handful of European qualification campaigns. Humiliating records defeats. Managerial merry-go-rounds. Player control. A handful of Top 5 finishes. A TOTAL LACK OF AMBITION OVER 35 YEARS.

The Falcon
27-07-2013, 09:33 PM
Two relegations. Countless Cup Final losses (2 LC victories). A litany of defeats to our Edinburgh neighbours to the point of subjugation. A handful of European qualification campaigns. Humiliating records defeats. Managerial merry-go-rounds. Player control. A handful of Top 5 finishes. A TOTAL LACK OF AMBITION OVER 35 YEARS.


In what way? We were close to being bust twice due to overspending.

blackpoolhibs
27-07-2013, 09:41 PM
Two relegations. Countless Cup Final losses (2 LC victories). A litany of defeats to our Edinburgh neighbours to the point of subjugation. A handful of European qualification campaigns. Humiliating records defeats. Managerial merry-go-rounds. Player control. A handful of Top 5 finishes. A TOTAL LACK OF AMBITION OVER 35 YEARS.

So its a lack of ambition, yet we went into debt to the tune of nearly £20m chasing the dream, but for all our underachieving its down to lack of ambition.

Well that's something we can easily change, i will leave now so you can tell us all how its done.

Iain G
27-07-2013, 09:41 PM
This is potentially our biggest problem now. That we have become comfortable with our weak and apathetic status as a club. One of the posters said he feared our best days were behind us never to return. Well, you can accept that or you can drive change and believe that Hibs can be better and give us more. I believe given our fan base we should be achieving more but I can't understand the fans who just want to lay down and accept that.

The Farmer/Petrie dynamic is interesting. It's paradoxically healthy and debilitating at the same time. We have a benefactor and a frugal financial manager who's ambition goes no further than balancing the books. I've said it before but as a club, organizations, football clubs balancing the books should not be our 'grand vision'. We don't even seem to have a high level, ambitious vision or goal to push us on. We're kind of in a straightjacket. If they would actively seek out fresh investment for the club and bring someone with football ambition into the fold it may start to readdress this situation; but of course, personal interests are being protected too.

I think the answer to your question is simple, Hibs and Scottish Football are just not that important to people any more! A combination of the decline of the game, old firm dominance, EPL coverage on Sky, many better value for money entertainment options have slowly eroded the importance of Hibernian in the life of the supporter so its a case of "oh well..." now rather than blood and thunder table thumping anger!

HibeeHutch
27-07-2013, 11:07 PM
So its a lack of ambition, yet we went into debt to the tune of nearly £20m chasing the dream, but for all our underachieving its down to lack of ambition.

Well that's something we can easily change, i will leave now so you can tell us all how its done.

Look, suggesting that you wear blinkers didn't set the right tone, and I should have been more diplomatic. I appreciate that you and a lot of other fans have this view. Perhaps we have been moderately ambitious at some points over the past 35+ years. It may be that mis-management and moderate ambition over this time has led to a steady decline. But from where I stand I can only see sustained and protracted inertia and underachievement when considering our environment and that we are probably the 3/4 biggest club in that environment. I certainly don't have all the answers but I also don't feel comfortable with where we are and where we've been for those past 3 and a half decades.

HibeeHutch
27-07-2013, 11:10 PM
I think the answer to your question is simple, Hibs and Scottish Football are just not that important to people any more! A combination of the decline of the game, old firm dominance, EPL coverage on Sky, many better value for money entertainment options have slowly eroded the importance of Hibernian in the life of the supporter so its a case of "oh well..." now rather than blood and thunder table thumping anger!

16,000 fans the other evening may disagree with you there - plus the many thousands who attend those cup finals. I can understand where you're coming from but I actually think the club means more to people the older it grows and the deeper it becomes part of our culture.

IWasThere2016
27-07-2013, 11:21 PM
Spiers is only saying what a number on here have said for years ,,

steakbake
27-07-2013, 11:34 PM
Spiers is only saying what a number on here have said for years ,,

Maybe next time we get humiliatingly pumped in a prime game, we should cut and paste our time worn responses, fire it off to all the dailies and split the bounty?

NAE NOOKIE
27-07-2013, 11:36 PM
I think the answer to your question is simple, Hibs and Scottish Football are just not that important to people any more! A combination of the decline of the game, old firm dominance, EPL coverage on Sky, many better value for money entertainment options have slowly eroded the importance of Hibernian in the life of the supporter so its a case of "oh well..." now rather than blood and thunder table thumping anger!

I cant agree with this. I think that people are just as passionate about their clubs as they have ever been. Yes the numbers may be smaller. In actual fact Hibs average over the last 10 years probably holds up pretty well against the 20 years that went before them.

There is no doubt that the game is in the doldrums just now, but what do we do .... just walk away?

Protests outside the main stand have been replaced to an extent by keyboard bashing, which is probably why you dont see them as much these days. That doesnt mean to say they are gone forever as may be borne out in the next few weeks.

Tell you what though ...... if you ( I.E. people in general ) feel that the delights of football on the playstation, or Saints row, or Call of Duty or whatever is where its at so be it. If they feel that watching the English game slowly kill itsself with its glut of insanely paid players with a SKY subscription is the way to go ..... fine. Even popping along to see Edinburgh Rugly now and again might be good value for money, but wheres the passion, wheres the heartfelt connection? Give me the experience of live football every time, even if it doesnt include Gareth Bale or Wayne Rooney.

As for old firm dominance. How many different clubs have won the EPL since it started? Of the 45 clubs who have been in the EPL since its conception 20 years ago only 5 have won it and of those Man City and Blackburn have won it once each. So pretty well dominated by 3 clubs instead of two. Not exactly brilliant in a 20 team league. Its probably even worse in the Spanish league.

Iain G
27-07-2013, 11:45 PM
I cant agree with this. I think that people are just as passionate about their clubs as they have ever been. Yes the numbers may be smaller. In actual fact Hibs average over the last 10 years probably holds up pretty well against the 20 years that went before them.

There is no doubt that the game is in the doldrums just now, but what do we do .... just walk away?

Protests outside the main stand have been replaced to an extent by keyboard bashing, which is probably why you dont see them as much these days. That doesnt mean to say they are gone forever as may be borne out in the next few weeks.

Tell you what though ...... if you ( I.E. people in general ) feel that the delights of football on the playstation, or Saints row, or Call of Duty or whatever is where its at so be it. If they feel that watching the English game slowly kill itsself with its glut of insanely paid players with a SKY subscription is the way to go ..... fine. Even popping along to see Edinburgh Rugly now and again might be good value for money, but wheres the passion, wheres the heartfelt connection? Give me the experience of live football every time, even if it doesnt include Gareth Bale or Wayne Rooney.

As for old firm dominance. How many different clubs have won the EPL since it started? Of the 45 clubs who have been in the EPL since its conception 20 years ago only 5 have won it and of those Man City and Blackburn have won it once each. So pretty well dominated by 3 clubs instead of two. Not exactly brilliant in a 20 team league. Its probably even worse in the Spanish league.

Don't get me wrong, if i lived in Edinburgh I'd still be buying up a season ticket, glutton for punishment me ;)

Am just saying, in the current depressed economic climate, it is less of a big deal for fans to walk away from the club after games like that and find other ways to spend their money on entertainment that I guess are easier to justify and require a lot less heartbreak? :confused:

Oh and by OF dominance I don't just mean on the park, the overload of Celtic/Rangers/Sevco stories in the daily press are as responsible as the two clubs for strangling the life out of Scottish Football....

hibby67
28-07-2013, 12:25 AM
spiers is only saying what a number on here have said for years ,,

more like spiers has copied what people have been saying from here

fatbloke
28-07-2013, 06:49 AM
No, I'm sorry, he's got it all wrong......


Falkirk weren't managed by Steven Pressley in the Cup Semi.

The rest is bang on.

It basically was Pressley's team though. i think that's what he meant.

blackpoolhibs
28-07-2013, 07:00 AM
Look, suggesting that you wear blinkers didn't set the right tone, and I should have been more diplomatic. I appreciate that you and a lot of other fans have this view. Perhaps we have been moderately ambitious at some points over the past 35+ years. It may be that mis-management and moderate ambition over this time has led to a steady decline. But from where I stand I can only see sustained and protracted inertia and underachievement when considering our environment and that we are probably the 3/4 biggest club in that environment. I certainly don't have all the answers but I also don't feel comfortable with where we are and where we've been for those past 3 and a half decades.

Who is comfortable with this situation? Chasing the dream cost us years of any real ambition that you would have liked to see, money owed has to be paid back, unless of course you are huns or diet huns. Would you like us to have gone down that route?

Where i will agree about underachievement is right here right now. Our debt has all but gone, its manageable debt, plus we have recovered financially while building the infrastructure into the best in the SPL bar Celtic.

Saying that, what we have now is unacceptable. The club asked us to be patient and while they were building the footings for the club they told us once the infrastructure was finished the rest would follow.

Its seems just as far away now as it did then.

Waxy
28-07-2013, 07:28 AM
Even a 0-4 result and we would have gone away knowing we are outclassed by even the average euro teams. But 0-7? Our worst result at ER? Something is so very wrong. I only came back second half of last year and took my wee lad along.i'm not sure he wants to go anymore. He used to run round the house singing "paddy fenlons green n white army" . Hasnt done that since.

clerriehibs
28-07-2013, 08:48 AM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/something-is-rotten-in-the-state-of-leith.21718556

He's got it spot on.

Not quite.

The 0-7 at tynecastle is in no way tarnished, same as it wasn't diminished or even enhanced by gubbing livi 7-0 at ER.

stanton_4
28-07-2013, 09:12 AM
It may be standard practice across all clubs in Scotland, I don't know, but a source of frustration for Fenlon throughout his time at Hibs is how the playing budget is used. At all other clubs he was with he was given a budget and allowed to spend it however he saw fit. so if that meant he had a few high earners supplemented by a number of lower paid players that was his choice to make. Not so at Hibs where Petrie has full control. More than once Fenlon has been left wondering how he has lost out on players to the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren......

I spoke to Billy Brown when he was at Hibs and this was his main gripe. It seems a ludicrous situation to me. How can any manager be expected to build a team when he no control over how he divies the money up and is not allowed to assess what a players financial worth is?

For what it's worth I don't think that the atricle Spiers wrote is particularly good. He isn't saying anything new. He regurgitating the same stuff I have heard being said for years. He makes bold obvious statements and offers no thoughts or possible solutions. If he was footballer he'd be Craig Burley.

jeffers
28-07-2013, 09:19 AM
I spoke to Billy Brown when he was at Hibs and this was his main gripe. It seems a ludicrous situation to me. How can any manager be expected to build a team when he no control over how he divies the money up and is not allowed to assess what a players financial worth is?
Interested to hear that, but not overly surprised. I know BH and I were "discussing" whether what I'd posted was true or not given Fenlon disputed it at the AGM, but if Brown said the same thing you've got to wonder......

Keith_M
28-07-2013, 09:19 AM
It seems to me that Feckless Fenlon, if he has any moral fibre in him at all, should only return to Edinburgh to clear out his house. Jimmy Nichol (a manager with European experience!) should be made Manager with Ian Murray (Dumbarton) hired as his assistant. Fenlon should be put on gardening leave which will moderate the cash outflow.

:greengrin

IMHO


I've said this on a number of threads already. Everyone would love to have an experienced replacement and the complaint is where we could find one and how we could afford him. IMHO, he's here already.

Why not give Nicholl the job on a temporary basis and at least see how he gets on?

Keith_M
28-07-2013, 09:21 AM
Not quite.

The 0-7 at tynecastle is in no way tarnished, same as it wasn't diminished or even enhanced by gubbing livi 7-0 at ER.


We were aso beaten 7-0 at Ibrox at the end of the Millar era. Made no difference then as to how everybody viewed the derby win.

FWIW, it's just Spiers trying to sound clever.

bigwheel
28-07-2013, 09:27 AM
If we are to change managers I'd much rather we go for a new thinking coach, someone in the AVB model. There is Ian Cathro at Rio Ave , people like Dan Ashworth in england, or be really bold and go for Paul Clement who is in the coaching team at Real Madrid with Ancelloti and wants to make a move as a manager in his own right ... These old "football names " types will give us same as we have recently had...

Moon unit
28-07-2013, 09:27 AM
I cant agree with this. I think that people are just as passionate about their clubs as they have ever been. Yes the numbers may be smaller. In actual fact Hibs average over the last 10 years probably holds up pretty well against the 20 years that went before them.

There is no doubt that the game is in the doldrums just now, but what do we do .... just walk away?

Protests outside the main stand have been replaced to an extent by keyboard bashing, which is probably why you dont see them as much these days. That doesnt mean to say they are gone forever as may be borne out in the next few weeks.

Tell you what though ...... if you ( I.E. people in general ) feel that the delights of football on the playstation, or Saints row, or Call of Duty or whatever is where its at so be it. If they feel that watching the English game slowly kill itsself with its glut of insanely paid players with a SKY subscription is the way to go ..... fine. Even popping along to see Edinburgh Rugly now and again might be good value for money, but wheres the passion, wheres the heartfelt connection? Give me the experience of live football every time, even if it doesnt include Gareth Bale or Wayne Rooney.

As for old firm dominance. How many different clubs have won the EPL since it started? Of the 45 clubs who have been in the EPL since its conception 20 years ago only 5 have won it and of those Man City and Blackburn have won it once each. So pretty well dominated by 3 clubs instead of two. Not exactly brilliant in a 20 team league. Its probably even worse in the Spanish league.


Lets stop bringing Scottish football into this...this is a Hibs problem,we have had a soft centre for years and everyone see's us as a soft touch.Until this is addressed the Bowfing results and disappointments will continue!

Beefster
28-07-2013, 10:09 AM
Graham Spiers is just another one of those bed-wetters we keep hearing about.

xyz23jc
28-07-2013, 10:11 AM
For what it's worth I don't think that the atricle Spiers wrote is particularly good. He isn't saying anything new. He regurgitating the same stuff I have heard being said for years. He makes bold obvious statements and offers no thoughts or possible solutions. If he was footballer he'd be Craig Burley.[/QUOTE]

:agree::top marks

sadtom
28-07-2013, 11:18 AM
The best thing that can be said about Farmer and Petrie is that they are not complete mentalists.
Without doubt they have benifited due to 'not being Vlad'.
We are constantly told how shrewd and hard nosed a negotiator/businessman RP is. Well lets not forget that even the (rightly mocked) bonkers submariner managed to rake in 9 million for spotty Gordon. Roughly the same as Rod got for Broony, KT, Murp and Stephen W combined.
The fact that the hertz are in their deaththroes has reinforced this "thank gawd for TF and RP" attitude. They are not being judged on their own (lack of) success. Merely on the fact that they havent pushed the club to the verge of extinction.
This is no way to run any orgaisation or how to critique those who run it.
Their tenure should be judged for what it is, not for what it isnt.