I'm Perplexed About The Management Situation

[Dashing Bob S]

Scenario one: we get it wrong every single time....


Scenario two: there's something about Hibs that corrodes the spirits, and destroys the soul of the previous competent...

[Dashing Bob S]

Sorry meant to post a poll but rather drunk and incompetent. It was a) bad recruitment b) deeper malaise

[bingo70]

I dunno, I think its why I'm reluctant to jump on.the fenlon must go bandwagon, I'm just not convinced it'll change anything although if its not the manager I've no idea what it could be (I dont buy into the theory about it being petrie)

[OrdHibby]

We can't afford a quality one so the choices are go for a young one and hope it works our or go for the mediocre i.e largs mafia mob or my choice which would be a totally new direction with a foreign crew coming in and totally revamping the place.
I know it isn't easy and mistakes will be made but the last three appointments were no mistakes. The board read this forum and were well warned. No more mistakes FFS

[danhibees1875]

:pfgwa

[Emerald]

We needed a manager with experience after Calderwood not a part time like Fenlon. We have/had loads of support for Fenlon because he's Irish (bizarre). Why did we go down the rookie route with Fenlon will forever bug me but at the end of the day its just a ****ing fitba game :greengrin

[sahib]

I dunno, I think its why I'm reluctant to jump on.the fenlon must go bandwagon, I'm just not convinced it'll change anything although if its not the manager I've no idea what it could be (I dont buy into the theory about it being petrie)

It has got to be the fans to blame.

[danhibees1875]

We needed a manager with experience after Calderwood not a part time like Fenlon. We have/had loads of support for Fenlon because he's Irish (bizarre). Why did we go down the rookie route with Fenlon will forever bug me but at the end of the day its just a ****ing fitba game :greengrin

When did we last employ someone more experienced? Fenlon had done very well in the Irish leagues prior to coming to Hibs.

[Pretty Boy]

When it comes to the current situation I look at our squad and can't help but think a new manager could get more out of the players. It's far from perfect but imo it's not a bad squad but players are being hampered by being instructed to play in a restriced way. A couple of games when the full backs and wide players were let off the leash, Hearts away and Falkirk 2nd half, showed we actually had/have some decent attacking options.

As for previously I think it's been a mixture of bad appointments (Calderwood and Hughes), appointments made too early in a career (Mixu and Collins) and a good appointment (Mowbray). I'm not 100% what to describe Fenlon as. All that is easy to say in hindsight though.

I'm not entirely sure of Petries role in all this. Obviously he signs off on the appointments so has to shoulder some of the blame but i'm not sure what he can do on a day to day basis to cause such mediocrity (or worse). He backs the managers financially as well as any other non Celtic chairman in the league and as far as i'm aware allows the manager to manage so not sure what else he can or can't do.

Personally I think their has been a culture of mediocroty and 2nd best allowed to manifest itself in the last few years and further back. We have almost managed to sleepwalk into a position where losing cup finals and finishing 7th are genuinely being argued to be 'successes' for the manager. I think the whole club (board, manager, players, fans) needs a boot in the baws and a proper determination to be better.

[spike220]

I dunno, I think its why I'm reluctant to jump on.the fenlon must go bandwagon, I'm just not convinced it'll change anything although if its not the manager I've no idea what it could be (I dont buy into the theory about it being petrie) Maybe we need to 1) Bring back the Harp 2) Dig up the Jambo shirt under the East Stand 3) Get the Nuns to wash our kits.

[lord bunberry]

Sorry meant to post a poll but rather drunk and incompetent. It was a) bad recruitment b) deeper malaise

What about another option that we just had an absolutely terrible day at the office yesterday and were about to have our best season in years.
A couple of weeks ago when the board were calling for people to buy season tickets there was talk on here about capitalizing on the feel good factor, how have we went from being so positive about the new season to being in crisis.

[spike220]

When it comes to the current situation I look at our squad and can't help but think a new manager could get more out of the players. It's far from perfect but imo it's not a bad squad but players are being hampered by being instructed to play in a restriced way. A couple of games when the full backs and wide players were let off the leash, Hearts away and Falkirk 2nd half, showed we actually had/have some decent attacking options.

As for previously I think it's been a mixture of bad appointments (Calderwood and Hughes), appointments made too early in a career (Mixu and Collins) and a good appointment (Mowbray). I'm not 100% what to describe Fenlon as. All that is easy to say in hindsight though.

I'm not entirely sure of Petries role in all this. Obviously he signs off on the appointments so has to shoulder some of the blame but i'm not sure what he can do on a day to day basis to cause such mediocrity (or worse). He backs the managers financially as well as any other non Celtic chairman in the league and as far as i'm aware allows the manager to manage so not sure what else he can or can't do.

Personally I think their has been a culture of mediocroty and 2nd best allowed to manifest itself in the last few years and further back. We have almost managed to sleepwalk into a position where losing cup finals and finishing 7th are genuinely being argued to be 'successes' for the manager. I think the whole club (board, manager, players, fans) needs a boot in the baws and a proper determination to be better. Exactly, we should be aiming to win the SPL, I am sick of all this loser top 4 or three talk. Lets aim for the top and not be happy till job done, all this aiming for 2nd and aiming for 3rd place does my head in. In which other sport in the world is it okay for a team to aim for 2nd place. And I don't but into the argument that says realistically it is the best we can do! I don't want realistic aims, we should be aiming to out a man on the moon! We need a BHAG! And someone with a pair of balls the size of watermelons to get us there! Maybe Pat is that man maybe not - I don't know, I am not close enough to the club and I don't know what happens behind closed doors.

[Emerald]

When did we last employ someone more experienced? Fenlon had done very well in the Irish leagues prior to coming to Hibs.I'm amazed you think that. Have a wee look at the Irish league and then catch up. It is, or should be miles from the SPL, or SPFFPSFSL or what ever. :thumbsup:

[spike220]

I'm amazed you think that. Have a wee look at the Irish league and then catch up. It is, or should be miles from the SPL, or SPFFPSFSL or what ever. :thumbsup:
Forget the Manager get 11 Radges on the field that smash anyone who even looks at the ball, yes we might lose a few games, but sooner or later the other teams will bottle it.

[skoop]

Sorry meant to post a poll but rather drunk and incompetent. It was a) bad recruitment b) deeper malaise

Both. The culture at our club is the most worrying thing.

[spike220]

Forget the Manager get 11 Radges on the field that smash anyone who even looks at the ball, yes we might lose a few games, but sooner or later the other teams will bottle it.
Unless uncle Farmer finds 20M to spend we have gotta find a new strategy. Scaring the other teams into submission is a good tactic. Now bring back Deegan, he can be the my silky player, now get 10 radges to go with him and there is your strategy and team.

[Bobby's Cinema]

We currently have a manager with no gameplan, who's setup a team with no shape, no forward movement, no plan b and presided over two of the most humiliating defeats we will suffer in our lifetimes.

I agree with giving managers time, but this would purely be giving him time for giving him times sake.

Theres **** all winning mentality at Hibs. **** all. Too many seem to be accepting things all to easily.

We are going nowhere.

Times up Pat

[marleyhib]

Whoever is picking the managers needs to go, looking at the other managers in the SPL and I would rather have any of them.

Why o why didn't we get Butcher instead of Fenlon, been watching his team for a season and a half and he is clueless - Sparky saved his bacon, this year we will be back to square one.

[johnrebus]

Pat Fenlon should have walked out of Easter Road on Thursday night and kept walking. I'm sure with his previous reputation he will pick up another post back in Ireland.

Ian Murray picked up a dead in the water club and transformed them into an exciting, watchable and goal scoring team within weeks.

We are on the road to hell right now, what is there to lose by bringing him in?

[lapsedhibee]

Ian Murray picked up a dead in the water club and transformed them

So did the other Ian Murray at Dumbarton! Coincidence or wot?

[bobbyhibs1983]

Theres **** all winning mentality at Hibs. **** all. Too many seem to be accepting things all to easily.

We are going nowhere.

Times up Pat

100% with this part of your post
.I guess from my point of view i think we, as in hibs just accept everything, a bad mistake, we shrugg our shoulders, a bad preformance again shrugg our shoulders.
I know that football is different from our "real word work" but if somone did THAT badly at work and lost 0-7 people would be asking questions AND GETTING ANSWERS.
i think we, as fans ask the questions and the club shrugg there shoulders and do not give answers.

I would ask our manager and the players this
You guys let us down yet again what are you gonna do about it?

[gaz1875]

When it comes to the current situation I look at our squad and can't help but think a new manager could get more out of the players. It's far from perfect but imo it's not a bad squad but players are being hampered by being instructed to play in a restriced way. A couple of games when the full backs and wide players were let off the leash, Hearts away and Falkirk 2nd half, showed we actually had/have some decent attacking options.

As for previously I think it's been a mixture of bad appointments (Calderwood and Hughes), appointments made too early in a career (Mixu and Collins) and a good appointment (Mowbray). I'm not 100% what to describe Fenlon as. All that is easy to say in hindsight though.

I'm not entirely sure of Petries role in all this. Obviously he signs off on the appointments so has to shoulder some of the blame but i'm not sure what he can do on a day to day basis to cause such mediocrity (or worse). He backs the managers financially as well as any other non Celtic chairman in the league and as far as i'm aware allows the manager to manage so not sure what else he can or can't do.

Personally I think their has been a culture of mediocroty and 2nd best allowed to manifest itself in the last few years and further back. We have almost managed to sleepwalk into a position where losing cup finals and finishing 7th are genuinely being argued to be 'successes' for the manager. I think the whole club (board, manager, players, fans) needs a boot in the baws and a proper determination to be better.

I say the same every week, the L/R backs never overlap, the centre halfs never carry the ball forward, the midfield get the ball stop and go side ways or backwards and the strikers are so far apart they would be as well sitting in the stands. On Thursday night this was pretty much Fenlon's third squad of players and the football is exactly the same. Play not to loose rather than play to win. Sorry on paper this squad of players SHOULD be able to beat any other team in the SPL!!

[H18Y GW]

We currently have a manager with no gameplan, who's setup a team with no shape, no forward movement, no plan b and presided over two of the most humiliating defeats we will suffer in our lifetimes.

I agree with giving managers time, but this would purely be giving him time for giving him times sake.

Theres **** all winning mentality at Hibs. **** all. Too many seem to be accepting things all to easily.

We are going nowhere.

Times up Pat


Agreed

We dont have and its not shaping to have a team structure or formation ,Take Thursday ,flat back four with 2 out of position and the Captain taking the piss.

Midfield

Harris double teamed,the only threat we had
Craig playing out of position and the other two suit Fenlons negative plans

Vine ??? VAN Persie wouldnt score for Hibs right now,so i dont blame him

Handling,quite good at running about


Off the Cuff,out of position Pub team .......

[Keith_M]

Any business is defined from the top down by its culture. The best businesses are where success is the only acceptable event. I have my doubts as to whether this is really the case at Hibs.

We can only guess as to what goes on inside Easter Road but we have an owner who came in to the club with the ideal of saving it for the community. He has no interest in the club outside of it still existing for generations. I'm not saying for one minute that this isn't a noble thing and that I'm not glad he bought Hibs when he did but I do wonder if this is the driving force behind Hibs, just to exist.

In Rod Petrie, we have a man who is a tough negotiator but I don't see him as a football man. The bottom line is what's important for him but I'm not convinced he has what it takes to give Hibs the drive to be winners that is missing from our majority shareholder. In short, nobody outside Easter Road can say for certain but I see no evidence as an outsider of that drive, to be a success.

Winning might not be the only thing but it's a bl**dy sight better than the alternative.

[bobbyhibs1983]

Any business is defined from the top down by its culture. The best businesses are where success is the only acceptable event. I have my doubts as to whether this is really the case at Hibs.

We can only guess as to what goes on inside Easter Road but we have an owner who came in to the club with the ideal of saving it for the community. He has no interest in the club outside of it still existing for generations. I'm not saying for one minute that this isn't a noble thing and that I'm not glad he bought Hibs when he did but I do wonder if this is the driving force behind Hibs, just to exist.

In Rod Petrie, we have a man who is a tough negotiator but I don't see him as a football man. The bottom line is what's important for him but I'm not convinced he has what it takes to give Hibs the drive to be winners that is missing from our majority shareholder. In short, nobody outside Easter Road can say for certain but I see no evidence as an outsider of that drive, to be a success.

Winning might not be the only thing but it's a bl**dy sight better than the alternative.


I agree with what your saying mate:agree:
though i Think your a little unfair on tom farmer and rod petie IN THE SENSE that if hibs do well, they do/look good as the men at the top so to speak, So us doing badly does noone any good(if i has taken your post the wrong way then sorry!)
I tihnk as regard rod petire and what you are saying ,but he is only the chairman, I dont think he has to know much about the football side, Thats why Imo he has put the manager(and his staff) in place.I tihnk he would have to said to pat ok heres the deal x,y,z ,i want this, that now get to work.
as for winners, i do not think we as a club have a winners mindset, a will to win so to speak.I think we are happy if we win with the last kick of the ball,

[Keith_M]

I agree with what your saying mate:agree:
though i Think your a little unfair on tom farmer and rod petie IN THE SENSE that if hibs do well, they do/look good as the men at the top so to speak, So us doing badly does noone any good(if i has taken your post the wrong way then sorry!)
I tihnk as regard rod petire and what you are saying , is he is only the chairman, I dont think he has to know much about the football side, Thats why Imo he has put the manager(and his staff) in place.I tihnk he would have to said to pat ok heres the deal x,y,z ,i want this, that now get to work.
as for winners, i do not think we as a club have a winners mindset, a will to win so to speak.I think we are happy if we win with the last kick of the ball,

All fair comment and I'm not going to contradict any of that. What I would point out is that the main thrust of my comment is that I see no evidence of a 'winner' culture at Easter Road and wonder if that is the problem.

Do managers and players come into Easter Road and become infected with a culture of 'never mind son, you did your best'? That's what I'm beginning to suspect and, if it is the case, it has to change. Now, I said I could well be wrong but I'm gonna take a LOT of convincing.

[Eyrie]

Given how poor our recent track record of appointments is, this raises the question of why anyone would think that a replacement for Fenlon would be an improvement.

[Keith_M]

Given how poor our recent track record of appointments is, this raises the question of why anyone would think that a replacement for Fenlon would be an improvement.


Considering some of the names put forward on this board as possible successors, you're dead right.

[mcfly]

I would try to convince Alex Mcleish to come back.

[Expecting Rain]

I would try to convince Alex Mcleish to come back.




100% correct.:agree:

[johnrebus]

So did the other Ian Murray at Dumbarton! Coincidence or wot?

I wouldn't describe you as a wit, but you're half way there.

[GodisaHibee]

Sorry meant to post a poll but rather drunk and incompetent. It was a) bad recruitment b) deeper malaise

In this case a combination of the two Bob, however, I truly believe there is something fundamentally wrong at the club. Since the Training centre was opened, Hibs performances have gone right down hill. This is totally counter intuitive and IMO, points to a deep rooted problem.

I can't second guess what it is, but it has been exacerbated by a run of poor choices of Manager.

The one common denominator is the people running the club.........


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Allan45]

I hope all involved at Hibs sit down early in the week and have an open forum as where we can discuss an agreed way to bring this great club forward. Do the players have a say about the positions they play to Pat? There is no way we should be playing that badly with the group of players that we have either.
I hope that we can get a good start to the season, winning a lot more home games than last year too, that's important. Get this 0-7 monkey off my back and start playing like Hibs again with more fighting team spirit, the spirit is leaving, lets bring it back now and play with courage and skill.......

[bobbyhibs1983]

What I would point out is that the main thrust of my comment is that I see no evidence of a 'winner' culture at Easter Road and wonder if that is the problem.

Do managers and players come into Easter Road and become infected with a culture of 'never mind son, you did your best'? That's what I'm beginning to suspect and, if it is the case, it has to change. Now, I said I could well be wrong but I'm gonna take a LOT of convincing.


I understand what your saying, and again i agree!
I think half the problem imo is a combanation of 2 things.
1.i dont think there is a "set plan" as such from either farmer,petrie and to a degree our manager of this is what we, as your boss expect from you. We wont allow this, that, this and that, if you do any of these things(whatever they are) your out(though i know point two sorta stops it unless we just pay them there contract and dump them).
2.players and there contracts.This is a double edged sword thing, i guess.I gues if x,y,z player just dont preform what can we do? if the player has say a 4year contract we cant just boot him out sorta thing.

As for a winning culture thats been lacking for a good few years now imo,as to what to do about it... im unsure

[Lincoln Green]

I understand what your saying, and again i agree!
I think half the problem imo is a combanation of 2 things.
1.i dont think there is a "set plan" as such from either farmer,petrie and to a degree our manager of this is what we, as your boss expect from you. We wont allow this, that, this and that, if you do any of these things(whatever they are) your out(though i know point two sorta stops it unless we just pay them there contract and dump them).
2.players and there contracts.This is a double edged sword thing, i guess.I gues if x,y,z player just dont preform what can we do? if the player has say a 4year contract we cant just boot him out sorta thing.

As for a winning culture thats been lacking for a good few years now imo,as to what to do about it... im unsure

Things will never be any different until there are big changes at board level. Indeed STF needs to sell up now and move on now. There is no real direction from the top which has spread through the club.

In terms of managers in my opinion RP has appointed a succession of managers who he feels can work with him and his business plan. As we have all seen this has not been in the best interests of the team on the park.

I doubt we will get the manager we need to take things forward until other things change. Love or hate Rod Petrie everything has a shelf life and Rodders has probably gone past his a few years back. This is another reason for the malaise at the club.

As others have already pointed out the lack of ambition at a time when the league is poor is disappointing.

[Hibercelona]

I understand what your saying, and again i agree!
I think half the problem imo is a combanation of 2 things.
1.i dont think there is a "set plan" as such from either farmer,petrie and to a degree our manager of this is what we, as your boss expect from you. We wont allow this, that, this and that, if you do any of these things(whatever they are) your out(though i know point two sorta stops it unless we just pay them there contract and dump them).
2.players and there contracts.This is a double edged sword thing, i guess.I gues if x,y,z player just dont preform what can we do? if the player has say a 4year contract we cant just boot him out sorta thing.

As for a winning culture thats been lacking for a good few years now imo,as to what to do about it... im unsure

That's the thing. People in normal jobs have to work consistently hard, otherwise they'll be sacked. Football players on 3+ year deals don't have to do bugger all if they don't feel like it. They've already made a tidy million just for putting their name down on a piece of paper.

[wheniwas5]

there is no one at hibs making a million out a 3 year deal,.

[greenpaper55]

When you get beaten two years in a row in a cup final and you return to easter road to a party each time then you know there is something deeply wrong with the club and this is fact by the way.
I have a close friend who was desperate for me to renew this season but even he said he will never be back until the manager / chairman are removed , those at the top probably thought that thursday was ok as 16,000 turned up and who cares about the result ?. We need men to run the club who have a passion for Hibs , the silence from petrie is totally out of order and just shows how out of touch he is , would this happen at any other SPL club after a result like last thursdays ?.