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View Full Version : What would it take for Fenlon to stay?



Keith_M
26-07-2013, 11:38 AM
What would it take for you to accept Fenlon staying at the club?

If he wins the first two games, Motherwell and the Yams, would that be enough?


If not, what else

Beefster
26-07-2013, 11:40 AM
Top four this season, no cup exits to lower league teams, more tactical intelligence and some decent football.

Edit: And picking players for their right positions.

MacBean
26-07-2013, 11:43 AM
What would it take for you to accept Fenlon staying at the club?

If he wins the first two games, Motherwell and the Yams, would that be enough?


If not, what else

Two league wins would not be near enough :devil:, we need to be winning at least half of our league games.


Agree with Beefster's statement

Speedway
26-07-2013, 11:43 AM
Top four this season, no cup exits to lower league teams, more tactical intelligence and some decent football.

Edit: And picking players for their right positions.

And sign Griffiths, Webster, make McPake retire, drop Stevenson and fine any player who didn't have a shot on goal in any given 90 minutes, including Williams.

PeeJay
26-07-2013, 11:44 AM
What would it take for you to accept Fenlon staying at the club?

If he wins the first two games, Motherwell and the Yams, would that be enough?


If not, what else
He's had all his chances, it's a complete and utter waste of time continuing with him. 1-5 against Hearts and 0-7 against Malmö ... does anyone seriously think a good performance against Motherwell and a win over Hearts is enough to make us forget this?

Beefster
26-07-2013, 11:44 AM
And sign Griffiths, Webster, make McPake retire, drop Stevenson and fine any player who didn't have a shot on goal in any given 90 minutes, including Williams.

Making the pies hot.

Hibercelona
26-07-2013, 11:44 AM
Challenging Aberdeen and Motherwell for 2nd place and getting to at least the semi's in both cup runs.

Anything less is completely unacceptable, regardless of the circumstances.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 11:44 AM
Top four this season, no cup exits to lower league teams, more tactical intelligence and some decent football.

Edit: And picking players for their right positions.

I concur.

If we lose to Motherwell and Hearts though, he should be sacked.

Spike Mandela
26-07-2013, 11:46 AM
Just not embarrassing us would be a start.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 11:47 AM
He's had all his chances, it's a complete and utter waste of time continuing with him. 1-5 against Hearts and 0-7 against Malmö ... does anyone seriously think a good performance against Motherwell and a win over Hearts is enough to make us forget this?


Yes, it's all about where the club actually is going and our ability to get results in the future. I couldn't care less about last night if its shown to be a bit of a one off once the season starts.

I thought the 1-5 was cheating? Not now eh?

Niffy
26-07-2013, 11:51 AM
No more having to apologise to the fans.
How many times is that now ?

Onion
26-07-2013, 11:54 AM
No more having to apologise to the fans.
How many times is that now ?

Its the only thing that's improving at the mo :rolleyes:

LioNeilMessi
26-07-2013, 11:55 AM
I'm not demanding his exit now but over the first quarter of the season achieving decent win rate 40-50% should be the target, if not achieved then I'm sorry but he has got to go. He's had a season and a half to 'build' this team so there is no reason now to not be punching at our weight. Sacking him right now would be a mistake.

PeeJay
26-07-2013, 11:59 AM
Yes, it's all about where the club actually is going and our ability to get results in the future. I couldn't care less about last night if its shown to be a bit of a one off once the season starts.

I thought the 1-5 was cheating? Not now eh?

You may have thought that, I certainly didn't. With Fenlon at the helm this club is not going anywhere: how bad does it have to get before you realise it? This not caring about a 0-7 defeat at home as long as everything works out in the end is an attitude that baffles me: it's not working out is it? 1-5 to Hearts, 0-7 to Malmö, failure to make top 6: this isn't just a one-off, is it? Personally I don't need to wait any more to see if we can match the mighty Partick Thistle under his management at some stage this season. Fenlon has to go, and if he has any character at all, he'll hand in his resigntation ASAP!

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 12:04 PM
He needs to get us back into europe through our league position and he needs to have us playing football the hibs way.
In the grand scheme of things last night was irrelevant to pats future, it's what he does from now on that will decide his future.

Hibercelona
26-07-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm not demanding his exit now but over the first quarter of the season achieving decent win rate 40-50% should be the target, if not achieved then I'm sorry but he has got to go. He's had a season and a half to 'build' this team so there is no reason now to not be punching at our weight. Sacking him right now would be a mistake.

As the club with currently the 2nd largest resources in the SPL, we should be looking to win 65-75% of our games.

40-50% is nowhere near good enough.

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 12:06 PM
You may have thought that, I certainly didn't. With Fenlon at the helm this club is not going anywhere: how bad does it have to get before you realise it? This not caring about a 0-7 defeat at home as long as everything works out in the end is an attitude that baffles me: it's not working out is it? 1-5 to Hearts, 0-7 to Malmö, failure to make top 6: this isn't just a one-off, is it? Personally I don't need to wait any more to see if we can match the mighty Partick Thistle under his management at some stage this season. Fenlon has to go, and if he has any character at all, he'll hand in his resigntation ASAP!

Were you calling for his head yesterday morning

Jonny1875
26-07-2013, 12:06 PM
Top 4 and a cup final we actually win? :wink:

Diclonius
26-07-2013, 12:06 PM
A loss to THAT Hearts team this season should automatically lead to dismissal.

LioNeilMessi
26-07-2013, 12:11 PM
As the club with currently the 2nd largest resources in the SPL, we should be looking to win 65-75% of our games.

40-50% is nowhere near good enough.

I disagree, we aren't 2nd largest by a much so to demand 65%+ is totally unrealistic. To put that into perspective, last season Celtic won 63% of their games.

Heisenberg
26-07-2013, 12:13 PM
He's got to have a good season. Top four. Good cup runs. No more humiliating results or performances. Won't happen though.

PeeJay
26-07-2013, 12:13 PM
Were you calling for his head yesterday morningWell, no, not yesterday morning, not on the morning of a big game - I was actually looking forward to my team putting up a decent performance against Malmö...but that was then, and this is now!

Ozyhibby
26-07-2013, 12:24 PM
He should be gone by the end of the day.
I won't be spending another penny on watching Hibs until he is gone.
Took the last two Thursday's off work to watch us concede 9 goals without reply. Feel like a right idiot now.

Malmoe
26-07-2013, 12:31 PM
You should look for young, cheap players in sweden. In the secondary leauge you will get them for free, and a lot better educated in the art of soccer:).

Scouse Hibee
26-07-2013, 12:31 PM
For us to actually turn up and compete in a big game!

hibeedonald
26-07-2013, 12:34 PM
You should look for young, cheap players in sweden. In the secondary leauge you will get them for free, and a lot better educated in the art of soccer:).

This. And if even if they're not brilliant you will get a lot more model professional type players who don't go to Nandos after training.

Malmoe
26-07-2013, 12:42 PM
That´s what we did when we couldn´t afford bying "finished" players. Give them time and responibility and few years later the WILL blossom!

The average age of our team is about 22-23, we sell some, and pick a new lad up. And it works! Now every young swedish player wants to come to Malmo since were giving them a fair chance to develop.

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Well, no, not yesterday morning, not on the morning of a big game - I was actually looking forward to my team putting up a decent performance against Malmö...but that was then, and this is now!


If he was good enough yesterday he can't have gotten that bad after one game

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 12:50 PM
That´s what we did when we couldn´t afford bying "finished" players. Give them time and responibility and few years later the WILL blossom!

The average age of our team is about 22-23, we sell some, and pick a new lad up. And it works! Now every young swedish player wants to come to Malmo since were giving them a fair chance to develop.


Sounds simple when you put it like that. However, if decent young players DID want to come to Hibs, I'd be afraid that their careers might be ruined before they got started.

BarneyK
26-07-2013, 12:51 PM
That´s what we did when we couldn´t afford bying "finished" players. Give them time and responibility and few years later the WILL blossom!

The average age of our team is about 22-23, we sell some, and pick a new lad up. And it works! Now every young swedish player wants to come to Malmo since were giving them a fair chance to develop.

That's the way it has to be :agree:

Golden Bear
26-07-2013, 12:51 PM
If he could produce a team that even tries to play football then that would be a starting point.

Chance would be a fine thing eh.

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 12:53 PM
If he was good enough yesterday he can't have gotten that bad after one game


I think you're missing his point. A lot of people, PeeJay presumably one of them, weren't convinced before yesterday's game but had no choice but to accept he was the manager for now. The 7-0 defeat put the tin lid on that, though.


Your argument is a bit like saying to a woman after she's just been beaten up by her drunken husband, "you weren't going to dump him yesterday, so what's changed?"


It's the old expression, "the straw that broke the Camel's back"

Niffy
26-07-2013, 12:56 PM
I think you're missing his point. A lot of people, PeeJay presumably one of them, weren't convinced before yesterday's game but had no choice but to accept he was the manager for now. The 7-0 defeat put the tin lid on that, though.


Your argument is a bit like saying to a woman after she's just been beaten up by her drunken husband, "you weren't going to dump him yesterday, so what's changed?"


It's the old expression, "the straw that broke the Camel's back"


Ooo very deep , I like that.

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 01:00 PM
Ooo very deep , I like that.


Thank you, I'm trying to rise above the normal level of debate on here and bring some intelligent thought to the proceedings.


Doesn't always work though, does it, "Pearls Before Swine" and aw that :wink:

Beefster
26-07-2013, 01:09 PM
I think you're missing his point. A lot of people, PeeJay presumably one of them, weren't convinced before yesterday's game but had no choice but to accept he was the manager for now. The 7-0 defeat put the tin lid on that, though.


Your argument is a bit like saying to a woman after she's just been beaten up by her drunken husband, "you weren't going to dump him yesterday, so what's changed?"


It's the old expression, "the straw that broke the Camel's back"

Well explained but I can't actually believe that you're having to.

blackpoolhibs
26-07-2013, 01:20 PM
That´s what we did when we couldn´t afford bying "finished" players. Give them time and responibility and few years later the WILL blossom!

The average age of our team is about 22-23, we sell some, and pick a new lad up. And it works! Now every young swedish player wants to come to Malmo since were giving them a fair chance to develop.

This used to be called the Ajax way, now we have fallen that much into the crap, we are now wanting to do it the Malmo way.

I agree with you bud, our young players are not professionals enough, of course the odd one will come good but they seem to think they have made it as soon as they make a 1st team debut.

Your team are miles ahead of our kids, technically physically and professionally.

Malmoe
26-07-2013, 01:38 PM
This used to be called the Ajax way, now we have fallen that much into the crap, we are now wanting to do it the Malmo way.

I agree with you bud, our young players are not professionals enough, of course the odd one will come good but they seem to think they have made it as soon as they make a 1st team debut.

Your team are miles ahead of our kids, technically physically and professionally.

Well, the Ajax way was buying Zlatan from us when he was about 20. For about 800 000 pounds. So not really.

In the good ol days we spent lots on great players, leaving the youth to other teams. But the youth-players seemed to get even better in other clubs, after having been trained in ages 10-18 in Malmö. Lucky for us, the market changed, we dont get any Zlatan-money, cant buy the expensive players, but we can afford to keep some of the youngsters a few years longer, and they do the job. Take Hamad, our captain, he came to us for basically nothing.

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 01:38 PM
I think you're missing his point. A lot of people, PeeJay presumably one of them, weren't convinced before yesterday's game but had no choice but to accept he was the manager for now. The 7-0 defeat put the tin lid on that, though.


Your argument is a bit like saying to a woman after she's just been beaten up by her drunken husband, "you weren't going to dump him yesterday, so what's changed?"


It's the old expression, "the straw that broke the Camel's back"
But that's not the way to judge a manager, we won't be playing Malmö again, we will be playing against other scottish teams and that is were fenlon will be judged.
Like it or not if we beat motherwell and hearts last night's result will be looked at in a different light. Fenlon has got to get off to a good start and have us playing decent football or it will be game over for him.

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Thank you, I'm trying to rise above the normal level of debate on here and bring some intelligent thought to the proceedings.


Doesn't always work though, does it, "Pearls Before Swine" and aw that :wink:
Thanks for educating us simpletons, I will try harder next time

blackpoolhibs
26-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Well, the Ajax way was buying Zlatan from us when he was about 20. For about 800 000 pounds. So not really.

In the good ol days we spent lots on great players, leaving the youth to other teams. But the youth-players seemed to get even better in other clubs, after having been trained in ages 10-18 in Malmö. Lucky for us, the market changed, we dont get any Zlatan-money, cant buy the expensive players, but we can afford to keep some of the youngsters a few years longer, and they do the job. Take Hamad, our captain, he came to us for basically nothing.

I agree, there was a time when we used to say when we sold a player for decent money, we should invest a bit of it in young up and coming players. Thats why we used to call it the Ajax way, they had a track record of doing this.

Your team were miles ahead of us in every way, it wouldn't matter if we sold a player for £1m tomorrow, we'd only replace him with a very poor Scottish replacement, who would have little of the skills your team showed last night.

Resulting in a worse team and further spiraling down the standards of world football.

Malmoe
26-07-2013, 01:50 PM
Well, the Ajax way was buying Zlatan from us when he was about 20. For about 800 000 pounds. So not really.

In the good ol days we spent lots on great players, leaving the youth to other teams. But the youth-players seemed to get even better in other clubs, after having been trained in ages 10-18 in Malmö. Lucky for us, the market changed, we dont get any Zlatan-money, cant buy the expensive players, but we can afford to keep some of the youngsters a few years longer, and they do the job. Take Hamad, our captain, he came to us for basically nothing.


That should be 8 000 000 pounds:).

Even I could afford Zlatan at 800 000.

lord bunberry
26-07-2013, 02:27 PM
Well explained but I can't actually believe that you're having to.

Is it well explained?
If last night was the straw that broke the camel's back then the woman who he mentions in his analogy must have been living with a partner who was abusive in the past, so she should have dumped him before the final beating.

HUTCHYHIBBY
26-07-2013, 02:33 PM
Your team were miles ahead of us in every way, it wouldn't matter if we sold a player for £1m tomorrow, we'd only replace him with a very poor Scottish replacement, who would have little of the skills your team showed last night.

We probably wouldnae replace him BH, there'll be infrastructure to improve somewhere.

Brightside
26-07-2013, 02:33 PM
The current squad should be able to batter Motherwell. BUT we'll prob get beat 2-0 and I wouldnt bet against Hearts beating us also until we get a decent coach.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 02:34 PM
Is it well explained?
If last night was the straw that broke the camel's back then the woman who he mentions in his analogy must have been living with a partner who was abusive in the past, so she should have dumped him before the final beating.

I agree. My straw was broken before last night.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 02:39 PM
The current squad should be able to batter Motherwell. BUT we'll prob get beat 2-0 and I wouldnt bet against Hearts beating us also until we get a decent coach.

Okay, so that's why a better Hearts team than they have now didn't beat us last year with this coach? :confused:

I can understand some reactions from last night but a few have gone a bit drama queen to be honest.

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 02:57 PM
Is it well explained?
If last night was the straw that broke the camel's back then the woman who he mentions in his analogy must have been living with a partner who was abusive in the past, so she should have dumped him before the final beating.


Keep trying, you'll get there in the end.


Oh and I'd like to revise my analogy, it was more of a Hay Bale than a straw, but similar principle applies.

Kaiser1962
26-07-2013, 05:13 PM
As the club with currently the 2nd largest resources in the SPL, we should be looking to win 65-75% of our games.

40-50% is nowhere near good enough.


No Hibs manager has ever managed that. Only three are over 50% wins.

Carheenlea
26-07-2013, 05:34 PM
As Hibs fans we are well equipped in dealing with major disappointments, and most of us will continue on getting our hopes up when a decent spell form materialises and optimistically think the good times are just round the corner. Last night's debacle is up there with the worst, and maybe the hardest boot in the nether regions we have suffered.
Unfortunately for Pat Fenlon, a defeat to Hearts on the second game of League business will be the straw that breaks the camels back. Get off to a decent start, beat Hearts, then he buys some time and starts to get the fans back on side. An enormous task for him though it must be said to win favour back.

Chump
26-07-2013, 07:18 PM
What would it take for you to accept Fenlon staying at the club?

If he wins the first two games, Motherwell and the Yams, would that be enough?


If not, what else


Lets twist this around a little and challenge Hibs fans out there for a robust case (5 examples) why he deserves to stay.....I can't think of one to be honest so I'll leave it up to you all to give examples of what he has actually done for Hibs and how he has taken them forward!! If we still struggle amongst us then there is your answer before we talk about what he needs to achieve in the near future to be accepted

1)??
2)??
3)??
4)??
5)??

Pretty Boy
26-07-2013, 07:23 PM
Fenlon is a dead man walking for me.

It would take a consistent improvement in performance and results over a sustained period of time to change my mind. That would have to start right away, no more excuses about 'needing time' or 'steady progress'.

It's not going to happen though because the man is ridiculously out of his depth.

Sir David Gray
26-07-2013, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't sack him unless we're struggling in the league going into November/December.

If that happens then the board's position has to become untenable.

Wotherspiniesta
26-07-2013, 07:31 PM
As the club with currently the 2nd largest resources in the SPL, we should be looking to win 65-75% of our games.

40-50% is nowhere near good enough.

:faf:

PeeJay
26-07-2013, 09:05 PM
If he was good enough yesterday he can't have gotten that bad after one game

Well now I didn't say he was good enough though did I? I knew he wasn't good enough after the cup final defeat to them, he should have been sacked for that disaster alone! On Thursday, I just wanted my team to do well on the night and dissing the manager in the morning just before an important game is really not what a supporter should be doing. Fenlon deserves every bit of criticism he is getting right now though, after the game. He may be a nice guy, but he is out of his depth here, and he should have nothing more to do with the club, he has to go. If he has any character he will resign...

LancashireHibby
26-07-2013, 09:18 PM
Sacking him at this stage of the game leaves us ten spaces behind square one. That's not to say that PF shouldn't carry the can and face up to how bad it was last night, but chopping and changing managers is already a policy we've seen to be a failure.

marinello59
26-07-2013, 09:22 PM
Sacking him at this stage of the game leaves us ten spaces behind square one. That's not to say that PF shouldn't carry the can and face up to how bad it was last night, but chopping and changing managers is already a policy we've seen to be a failure.

Would we be any worse with Jimmy Nicholl as temporary manager than we are with PF?

lucky
26-07-2013, 09:37 PM
PF is under real pressure, a bad start to the season will see him gone. Yes he has delivered heartache but. 2 cup finals and a Euro qualification is not that bad. I'm not convinced he will take us forward. His biggest weakness seems to loyalty to certain players. McPake is injured, lewis is average LB/LM. Hanlon is never a left back and a poor CH.

Pretty Boy
26-07-2013, 09:38 PM
Sacking him at this stage of the game leaves us ten spaces behind square one. That's not to say that PF shouldn't carry the can and face up to how bad it was last night, but chopping and changing managers is already a policy we've seen to be a failure.

Surely though there comes a tipping point when continuity purely for the sake of continuity becomes a bigger folly than another sacking?

Almost everyone wanted Fenlon to work out and he has, imo, been cut a lot more slack than others may have been. Unfortunately though it's fast becoming obvious, again imo, that it isn't working and it's unlikely that's suddenly going to change.

The_Horde
26-07-2013, 09:53 PM
Don't get us into finals or Europe to avoid imminent embarrassment.

Paisley Hibby
26-07-2013, 10:08 PM
What would it take for you to accept Fenlon staying at the club?

If he wins the first two games, Motherwell and the Yams, would that be enough?


If not, what else

I'd only accept him staying at Hibs if he gives up the managers job and takes up a post as a cleaner.