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Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 09:56 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 10:00 AM
Oh well, that's all OK then.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 10:02 AM
Oh well, that's all OK then.

Yes, that's what I said. :crazy:

hibIBZ
26-07-2013, 10:05 AM
Things went wrong and they are a decent side so it's ok that we didn't bother trying and played a ridiculous system...... Rolls eyes ( on phone) can't believe people are even attempting to defend anything about the way we played last night

BarneyK
26-07-2013, 10:06 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

Presumably they could have - seeing as we were losing Leigh Griffiths - ensured that we signed some attacking threat? The players look absolutely devoid of any confidence in themselves or in the system. I honestly don't know who's to blame for that. It must be said though, many other "smaller" sides always seem to make a better fist of it than us - the St Johnstone result being a prime example.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 10:07 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

So now that you've justified the result and looked at it with some perspective, you will be buying that season ticket after all?

HibbySpurs
26-07-2013, 10:15 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

Very well summarised HR :agree:.... I think the level of bed-wetting & knee jerking going on here today is a bit out of proportion. Yes we're all very angry and peed off but baying for the manager's head on a plate really is not the answer today (IMHO)...

The thing is the manager simply has to learn from last night and take that forward into the new campaign. We simply have to be better than last night tactically and show a bit more guille.

We've signed a new striker and hopefully when players are fit we can play a team with players slotted into proper positions.

Think we really need a new CH above all else as I just cant see when McPake will 100% fit again and we need to stop taking chances by playing players who arent 100% fit. If they are not fit, play someone who is, who even if out of position can at least chase & fight........

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 10:15 AM
Things went wrong and they are a decent side so it's ok that we didn't bother trying and played a ridiculous system...... Rolls eyes ( on phone) can't believe people are even attempting to defend anything about the way we played last night

You know there's a difference between defending something and looking at the reasons for it happening.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 10:16 AM
Very well summarised HR :agree:.... I think the level of bed-wetting & knee jerking going on here today is a bit out of proportion. Yes we're all very angry and peed off but baying for the manager's head on a plate really is not the answer today (IMHO)...

The thing is the manager simply has to learn from last night and take that forward into the new campaign. We simply have to be better than last night tactically and show a bit more guille.

We've signed a new striker and hopefully when players are fit we can play a team with players slotted into proper positions.

Think we really need a new CH above all else as I just cant see when McPake will 100% fit again and we need to stop taking chances by playing players who arent 100% fit. If they are not fit, play someone who is, who even if out of position can at least chase & fight........

How should we react to the worst European result in Scottish footballing history, our worst home defeat in the last two centuries and our third big game humping in 14 months? Just for future reference.

southsider
26-07-2013, 10:17 AM
Is it hell ok. An absolute capulation, and not for the first time either. Shows our players have hearts the size of peas. No tactics, no leadership and no pace and we go try to sign another "slow" forward. Genius.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:18 AM
Things went wrong and they are a decent side so it's ok that we didn't bother trying and played a ridiculous system...... Rolls eyes ( on phone) can't believe people are even attempting to defend anything about the way we played last night

So the system almost everyone wanted to play all of last year is now ridiculous?

If he had gone 451 we would still have lost and he would have been slated for not going for it. There were posts yesterday already suggesting he was going to be too tight and defensive.

I'm not defending the result at all but the opening post is a good one with some perspective.

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 10:18 AM
Very well summarised HR :agree:.... I think the level of bed-wetting & knee jerking going on here today is a bit out of proportion. Yes we're all very angry and peed off but baying for the manager's head on a plate really is not the answer today (IMHO)...

The thing is the manager simply has to learn from last night and take that forward into the new campaign. We simply have to be better than last night tactically and show a bit more guille.

We've signed a new striker and hopefully when players are fit we can play a team with players slotted into proper positions.

Think we really need a new CH above all else as I just cant see when McPake will 100% fit again and we need to stop taking chances by playing players who arent 100% fit. If they are not fit, play someone who is, who even if out of position can at least chase & fight........


Bed Wetting and Knee Jerking?

Seriously?

Last Minute
26-07-2013, 10:23 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.


your having a laugh aye?

YehButNoBut
26-07-2013, 10:25 AM
Just wondering when would be the correct time for bed wetting & knee jerking??

If not after our worst home defeat in living memory or the worst performance by any Scottish club in Europe.

Maybe when we get humped by Hearts kids in a few weeks, would that be a good time?

IanM
26-07-2013, 10:25 AM
Very well summarised HR :agree:.... I think the level of bed-wetting & knee jerking going on here today is a bit out of proportion. Yes we're all very angry and peed off but baying for the manager's head on a plate really is not the answer today (IMHO)...

The thing is the manager simply has to learn from last night and take that forward into the new campaign. We simply have to be better than last night tactically and show a bit more guille.

We've signed a new striker and hopefully when players are fit we can play a team with players slotted into proper positions.

Think we really need a new CH above all else as I just cant see when McPake will 100% fit again and we need to stop taking chances by playing players who arent 100% fit. If they are not fit, play someone who is, who even if out of position can at least chase & fight........

according to the player only ...

gegs70
26-07-2013, 10:27 AM
This was an embarresment to Lawrie Reilly, to hibs and Scotland. We knew since January we needed strikers....we knew our rear guard was flawed...we went into europe unprepared. I fealt vines signing was because we didnt get the targets we wanted.....I know we were never going to win this tie but that wwas terrible

Treadstone
26-07-2013, 10:28 AM
So the system almost everyone wanted to play all of last year is now ridiculous?

If he had gone 451 we would still have lost and he would have been slated for not going for it. There were posts yesterday already suggesting he was going to be too tight and defensive.

I'm not defending the result at all but the opening post is a good one with some perspective.

Tactically what do you think Pat Fenlon got right last night ?

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 10:31 AM
Presumably they could have - seeing as we were losing Leigh Griffiths - ensured that we signed some attacking threat? The players look absolutely devoid of any confidence in themselves or in the system. I honestly don't know who's to blame for that. It must be said though, many other "smaller" sides always seem to make a better fist of it than us - the St Johnstone result being a prime example.

Maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to empty Doyle, but I think that Hibs were very confident of keeping Griffiths. He had made all the right noises, publicly, and most thought that Wolves wouldn't be too difficult to deal with. Sacking manager brought a change of mindset and the expected transfer fell through.

Rumours are that we tried to get Taylor, but didn't have the readies and we've been looking to strengthen since then.

I have never bought a football player so I can't comment on how long that process takes, but I do know it's not easy to get quality when you don't have millions to spend. We have reportedly just shelled out £200k for a highly rated striker and Vine looks a decent acquisition and could make a good partner up front.

The Europa League was never a priority. We only qualified for it through the back door anyway and we were never going to make any real progress.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:31 AM
This was an embarresment to Lawrie Reilly, to hibs and Scotland. We knew since January we needed strikers....we knew our rear guard was flawed...we went into europe unprepared. I fealt vines signing was because we didnt get the targets we wanted.....I know we were never going to win this tie but that wwas terrible

One of the problems though isn't it, we knew we needed strikers but we have a whole season to play, and the ones after that, we can't just sign players for this game.

We signed Vine a couple of days before the first leg, we signed what looks like our main striker on the day of the game and he can't play.

Malmo on the other hand made all the signings they wanted before thir season and they've all being playing now together for months.

I think we should stop using the Reilly thing this mornin. The players had a game to play and playing badly should not be used a sign of disrespect to him.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:32 AM
Just wondering when would be the correct time for bed wetting & knee jerking??

If not after our worst home defeat in living memory or the worst performance by any Scottish club in Europe.

Maybe when we get humped by Hearts kids in a few weeks, would that be a good time?

That would be a better time yes, if that was to happen.

One Day Soon
26-07-2013, 10:33 AM
Very well summarised HR :agree:.... I think the level of bed-wetting & knee jerking going on here today is a bit out of proportion. Yes we're all very angry and peed off but baying for the manager's head on a plate really is not the answer today (IMHO)...

The thing is the manager simply has to learn from last night and take that forward into the new campaign. We simply have to be better than last night tactically and show a bit more guille.

We've signed a new striker and hopefully when players are fit we can play a team with players slotted into proper positions.

Think we really need a new CH above all else as I just cant see when McPake will 100% fit again and we need to stop taking chances by playing players who arent 100% fit. If they are not fit, play someone who is, who even if out of position can at least chase & fight........

Seriously, what would bad look like for you? Players topping themselves live on the pitch perhaps? They could have gone to double figures last night and from what I understand the same was true in the first leg.

The reason we haven't "simply" been better than we were tactically last night is down to the tactician in charge. Unless you believe that he gave them instructions and positions before the game and then they just ignored it all.

You make just one of the cases for Pat's departure yourself with the statement in bold. Who is choosing to play unfit players? Who is choosing to play players out of position?

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:34 AM
Seriously, what would bad look like for you? Players topping themselves live on the pitch perhaps? They could have gone to double figures last night and from what I understand the same was true in the first leg.

The reason we haven't "simply" been better than we were tactically last night is down to the tactician in charge. Unless you believe that he gave them instructions and positions before the game and then they just ignored it all.

You make just one of the cases for Pat's departure yourself with the statement in bold. Who is choosing to play unfit players? Who is choosing to play players out of position?

So you think it was really tactics that lost the game last night? I don't.

WhileTheChief..
26-07-2013, 10:35 AM
More excuses again

We had the same through Calderwoods time. Have we not learnt from that?

Just stop with all the 'circumstances' crap.

We are woeful and Fenlon as to go.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 10:37 AM
your having a laugh aye?

Sorry, we must avoid perspective at all costs. I forgot, there's no room for rationality in football.

Under no circumstances should we take a step back and analyse the situation before coming to our conclusions.

The best decisions are the thoughtless ones. :rolleyes:

hibIBZ
26-07-2013, 10:38 AM
So the system almost everyone wanted to play all of last year is now ridiculous?

If he had gone 451 we would still have lost and he would have been slated for not going for it. There were posts yesterday already suggesting he was going to be too tight and defensive.

I'm not defending the result at all but the opening post is a good one with some perspective.

No I have never felt we should play a very basic very slow clueless 442. All they did was put an extra man in midfield to swamp us and bump long balls over our high line. You can't catch people offside every time and our high line left acres if space for there quick forward to exploit. The answer if playing a high line is to cut of the source if the long ball but our wide weren't allowed to defend higher giving their fullbacks time and space. Plus surely he knows that playing a left midfielder at right back is suicide esp if you played him there last week and he got roasted and is a limited footballer to start with. No disrespect to Stevenson he looked so lost

HibbySpurs
26-07-2013, 10:39 AM
Just wondering when would be the correct time for bed wetting & knee jerking??

If not after our worst home defeat in living memory or the worst performance by any Scottish club in Europe.

Maybe when we get humped by Hearts kids in a few weeks, would that be a good time?

Every last one of us is hurting and hurting bad but simply to demand heads roll is not the answer. Dont get me wrong there are no positives from last night but rather than tearing into each other and the club we have a window now to look at this in perspective and give the management of the club a chance to sort it out.

I am deeply embarrased by last nights result just like you but come on, lets see beyond our anger and realise that simply dismissing the manager today does nothing for stability at the club.....

And finally, yes, if we get humped off Motherwell & the Hearts I will be flooding my bedroom with urine as well but I'm hopeful that if PF learns from last night and listens to the counsel of his new assistant it wont come to that.

GGTTH....

BarneyK
26-07-2013, 10:41 AM
Maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to empty Doyle, but I think that Hibs were very confident of keeping Griffiths. He had made all the right noises, publicly, and most thought that Wolves wouldn't be too difficult to deal with. Sacking manager brought a change of mindset and the expected transfer fell through.

Rumours are that we tried to get Taylor, but didn't have the readies and we've been looking to strengthen since then.

I have never bought a football player so I can't comment on how long that process takes, but I do know it's not easy to get quality when you don't have millions to spend. We have reportedly just shelled out £200k for a highly rated striker and Vine looks a decent acquisition and could make a good partner up front.

The Europa League was never a priority. We only qualified for it through the back door anyway and we were never going to make any real progress.

I get that but it's the midfield that's not been pulling its weight. As much as we don't like to admit it, Leigh did carry us last season. It would have been unfair to have expected him to do it again this season. Now, I'm not saying that the players we have there in midfield are incapable of contributing goals-wise, but for some reason they don't play with any real confidence at all when it comes to that, and even seem deeply uncomfortable taking the ball just outside the opposition's box in order to play in a striker. Individually they need to look at themselves for that.

HibbySpurs
26-07-2013, 10:43 AM
Seriously, what would bad look like for you? Players topping themselves live on the pitch perhaps? They could have gone to double figures last night and from what I understand the same was true in the first leg.

The reason we haven't "simply" been better than we were tactically last night is down to the tactician in charge. Unless you believe that he gave them instructions and positions before the game and then they just ignored it all.

You make just one of the cases for Pat's departure yourself with the statement in bold. Who is choosing to play unfit players? Who is choosing to play players out of position?

I also said "The manager simply has to learn from this" and I'm hoping he does but sadly I have my doubts, I agree entirely with your statement about who is choosing these pepole and if things dont improve quickly I'll be at the head of the sack him que.... I just dont think today is the day for that.....

gegs70
26-07-2013, 10:44 AM
One of the problems though isn't it, we knew we needed strikers but we have a whole season to play, and the ones after that, we can't just sign players for this game.

We signed Vine a couple of days before the first leg, we signed what looks like our main striker on the day of the game and he can't play.

Malmo on the other hand made all the signings they wanted before thir season and they've all being playing now together for months.

I think we should stop using the Reilly thing this mornin. The players had a game to play and playing badly should not be used a sign of disrespect to him.


The Reilly thing....?

Andy albeit that ws a good team, but that was humiliating, another result the chips blocks off the clubs great history. Andy you can put all your excuses down here but the result speaks volumes you cant erase the fact that Malmo could have gome up a gear or 2.....

noucampos
26-07-2013, 10:45 AM
The Europa League was never a priority. We only qualified for it through the back door anyway and we were never going to make any real progress.


Rarely post so the usual accusations will fly, but here goes anyway... What are Hibs for? Seriously? We can't win the league and we probably won't win a cup so European qualification is the most realistic goal in any given season. But why would we want that, when all that happens is that we get ritually humped by the first team we come up against, no matter who they are?

The idea of building a team for the likes of us season by season has long gone in the Post-Bosman age so steady progress and improvement is unlikely. So I ask again, what are we for?

Realise this sounds positively suicidal, but I've been watching this for too long and I no longer feel any real disappointment, just exhaustion. And that's tragic.

hibIBZ
26-07-2013, 10:46 AM
Cup final v Celtic
First half semi against Falkirk
Celtic away 3-0
St Johnston at home 1-3
Dundee away 3-0
Dundee utd first game of season
Hearts cup final
I know there has been some cracking results as well but that is a short list of complete debacles over the last 18 months. How much perspective is needed

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:46 AM
I also said "The manager simply has to learn from this" and I'm hoping he does but sadly I have my doubts, I agree entirely with your statement about who is choosing these pepole and if things dont improve quickly I'll be at the head of the sack him que.... I just dont think today is the day for that.....

If this was just in an SPL game I'd be more inclined to join in. As in the thread title a lot of things came togther for this one. Their manager said that too.

I think we really do need to see how the league goes but if we get too far into the negativity we are almost dictating how that will go...that would be dangerous too.

TAHibby
26-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Tactically what do you think Pat Fenlon got right last night ?

Put the correct number of players on the pitch? That's all I've got.

One Day Soon
26-07-2013, 10:48 AM
So you think it was really tactics that lost the game last night? I don't.

I quote tactics because the poster I was quoting raised the subject of tactics and imporving them. It is one of a number of reasons why we were utterly, comprehensively, historically and epochally humiliated last night. There are many others to add to the list of factors.

Mac
26-07-2013, 10:49 AM
Guess opinions are like (.) everyone has one, maybe we should start a committee about it!!

Unique set of circumstances, possibly last week it was unique but this week it wasn’t as we knew all about the way the play and the capabilities they have.

What came together? In EVERY football match circumstance changes in an instant and it’s down to players and coaching staff to react quickly and decisively to counteract that, we didn’t we continued with a lethargic and inept performance.

Malmo are a good side but they aren’t 0-7 good, we knew from last week how good they were and therefor the formation and players should be very aware, clearly a part time Irish side did their homework and their formation nulled their key threats from midfield and even with 10 men kept a clean sheet.

I would say we did have goalscorers on the park including a proven midfielder the problem was getting the ball to them, there was nothing I could see where creativity or pinpoint one area to get to, Vine won a good percentage of high balls, the weakness I saw was the aerial ability from last week and this so why play handling and not Caldwell as it was clear they were very comfortable with the ball on the deck.

The reason we never created anything was that Malmo tracked back, worked hard and clearly had a game/tactical plan against a team they saw the week before, they never changed from the previous week, they used the width to pull our full backs wide, strikers pulled our CH and the midfielder strolled unchallenged in to the box where they could pick their spot from around the penalty spot with no one near them, from last week they did this time and time again so why didn’t our midfield track back and protect our back 4, only once do I recall KT doing exactly this.

There was no support, no one was busting a gut and there was no movement from us, they got their bodies in position, doubled up and gave our wide guys no room to breathe, they looked terrified, they played simple triangle football which was more than good enough, we never got under their skin or noised them up which should have happened in attempt to put them on the back foot, again the part time Irish team created more chances than we did.

But we should never have been 0-3 down, that is clearly the point your missing, we put the same team in the same formation knowing they ripped us apart the week before, a manager’s job is to surprise the opposition, do something different and catch them on the hop from the first whistle, they realise quickly we had nothing new and they could play exactly the same way without threat, that is unforgiveable, Craig Patterson summed it up perfectly on the radio afterwards.

There was no ideas, no passion, nothing, on 3 occasions I witnessed 3 different players coming over to fenlon asking for direction as to what changes he was asking for, he waved his hands about, pointed and turned back into the dugout with at least two players walking away shaking their head, Craig, Taiwo and Thomson all looking perplexed to say the least.

There is no perspective, in almost every ‘big’ game we simply don’t turn up, get the tactics wrong and if wasn’t for Griffiths last season and a huge slice of luck against Falkirk we would have been relegated and nowhere near Europe, I’m all for giving someone a chance if there is glimpses of improvement, for me we are going backwards and quickly.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 10:50 AM
Rarely post so the usual accusations will fly, but here goes anyway... What are Hibs for? Seriously? We can't win the league and we probably won't win a cup so European qualification is the most realistic goal in any given season. But why would we want that, when all that happens is that we get ritually humped by the first team we come up against, no matter who they are?

The idea of building a team for the likes of us season by season has long gone in the Post-Bosman age so steady progress and improvement is unlikely. So I ask again, what are we for?

Realise this sounds positively suicidal, but I've been watching this for too long and I no longer feel any real disappointment, just exhaustion. And that's tragic.

The likes of Collins hopefully signing for 3 yrs, Craig a couple, you hope that the next time you qualify you aren't looking to replace a whole team, just add the one or two you might need.

Whilst we are goig to be drawn against teams that are already fully toghether and match fit it's always going to be tough.

Doesn't have to be 9-0 tough mind!

WestEndHibee
26-07-2013, 10:53 AM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

I think this is an incredibly valid point. It was absolutely horrendous last night but was compounded by all the situations mentioned. As much as change is absolutely needed I think we need to gauge ourselves against spl teams to see how drastic change should be.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 10:54 AM
So now that you've justified the result and looked at it with some perspective, you will be buying that season ticket after all?

I haven't justified the result, I've merely outlined the circumstances we faced.

I'm not sure about a season ticket, but I might. I'm allowed knee-jerk reactions too, you know.

I'll let the pain of last night wear off and see how I feel next week.

If the Motherwell game hadn't been on TV, I'd have no doubts, but the rescheduling makes me more reluctant.

YehButNoBut
26-07-2013, 11:06 AM
Every last one of us is hurting and hurting bad but simply to demand heads roll is not the answer. Dont get me wrong there are no positives from last night but rather than tearing into each other and the club we have a window now to look at this in perspective and give the management of the club a chance to sort it out.

I am deeply embarrased by last nights result just like you but come on, lets see beyond our anger and realise that simply dismissing the manager today does nothing for stability at the club.....

And finally, yes, if we get humped off Motherwell & the Hearts I will be flooding my bedroom with urine as well but I'm hopeful that if PF learns from last night and listens to the counsel of his new assistant it wont come to that.

GGTTH....

I understand where you're coming from, but he has been manager when we have had the 2 worst results in our history, the majority of the fans have lost faith in him and it looks like the players have as well.

IMO he can't recover from this, I really doubt we will see him back at ER again, if he had any honour at all he would resign and may have already offered this, I sincerely hope so.

gegs70
26-07-2013, 11:11 AM
I cant remember the last time I saw decent football ar ER certainly nothing worth the price we pay.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 11:12 AM
I haven't justified the result, I've merely outlined the circumstances we faced.

I'm not sure about a season ticket, but I might. I'm allowed knee-jerk reactions too, you know.

I'll let the pain of last night wear off and see how I feel next week.

If the Motherwell game hadn't been on TV, I'd have no doubts, but the rescheduling makes me more reluctant.

Fair enough. If this continues, mine might be free so it might be worth holding off!

CropleyWasGod
26-07-2013, 11:15 AM
I cant remember the last time I saw decent football ar ER certainly nothing worth the price we pay.

Less than 24 hours ago? :greengrin

Keith_M
26-07-2013, 11:17 AM
Less than 24 hours ago? :greengrin


You're REALLY not helping!





:greengrin

HibbySpurs
26-07-2013, 11:20 AM
Less than 24 hours ago? :greengrin

:stirrer:

CropleyWasGod
26-07-2013, 11:21 AM
You're REALLY not helping!





:greengrin

Ken.

They were pretty special to watch, though, eh no?

:turnevil:

HibbySpurs
26-07-2013, 11:23 AM
I understand where you're coming from, but he has been manager when we have had the 2 worst results in our history, the majority of the fans have lost faith in him and it looks like the players have as well.

IMO he can't recover from this, I really doubt we will see him back at ER again, if he had any honour at all he would resign and may have already offered this, I sincerely hope so.

Maybe he has and maybe it's been rejected?

Cant disagree that the levels of progress are not what we would have liked to this junction but there has been incremental progress (IMO) but we just seem to be posted AWOL when it really matters and at the end of the day its these games that a manager will live or die by.

As I said if we dont get positive results out of the Motherwell & Hearts games then the managers position must be seriously called into question.

To me positive results would mean us on a minimum of 4 points after those two games, preferably 6 so no pressure Pat!!

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 11:28 AM
Fair enough. If this continues, mine might be free so it might be worth holding off!

:faf:

Halifaxhibby
26-07-2013, 11:44 AM
For all the guys on here talking about perspective, one word, Drogheda. Are they a better side than us??, probably. There's your perspective!, hibs are a bigger joke than hertz now, and that's saying something!!. Club is rotten from top to bottom.

Bearders
26-07-2013, 11:48 AM
Guess opinions are like (.) everyone has one, maybe we should start a committee about it!!

Unique set of circumstances, possibly last week it was unique but this week it wasn’t as we knew all about the way the play and the capabilities they have.

What came together? In EVERY football match circumstance changes in an instant and it’s down to players and coaching staff to react quickly and decisively to counteract that, we didn’t we continued with a lethargic and inept performance.

Malmo are a good side but they aren’t 0-7 good, we knew from last week how good they were and therefor the formation and players should be very aware, clearly a part time Irish side did their homework and their formation nulled their key threats from midfield and even with 10 men kept a clean sheet.

I would say we did have goalscorers on the park including a proven midfielder the problem was getting the ball to them, there was nothing I could see where creativity or pinpoint one area to get to, Vine won a good percentage of high balls, the weakness I saw was the aerial ability from last week and this so why play handling and not Caldwell as it was clear they were very comfortable with the ball on the deck.

The reason we never created anything was that Malmo tracked back, worked hard and clearly had a game/tactical plan against a team they saw the week before, they never changed from the previous week, they used the width to pull our full backs wide, strikers pulled our CH and the midfielder strolled unchallenged in to the box where they could pick their spot from around the penalty spot with no one near them, from last week they did this time and time again so why didn’t our midfield track back and protect our back 4, only once do I recall KT doing exactly this.

There was no support, no one was busting a gut and there was no movement from us, they got their bodies in position, doubled up and gave our wide guys no room to breathe, they looked terrified, they played simple triangle football which was more than good enough, we never got under their skin or noised them up which should have happened in attempt to put them on the back foot, again the part time Irish team created more chances than we did.

But we should never have been 0-3 down, that is clearly the point your missing, we put the same team in the same formation knowing they ripped us apart the week before, a manager’s job is to surprise the opposition, do something different and catch them on the hop from the first whistle, they realise quickly we had nothing new and they could play exactly the same way without threat, that is unforgiveable, Craig Patterson summed it up perfectly on the radio afterwards.

There was no ideas, no passion, nothing, on 3 occasions I witnessed 3 different players coming over to fenlon asking for direction as to what changes he was asking for, he waved his hands about, pointed and turned back into the dugout with at least two players walking away shaking their head, Craig, Taiwo and Thomson all looking perplexed to say the least.

There is no perspective, in almost every ‘big’ game we simply don’t turn up, get the tactics wrong and if wasn’t for Griffiths last season and a huge slice of luck against Falkirk we would have been relegated and nowhere near Europe, I’m all for giving someone a chance if there is glimpses of improvement, for me we are going backwards and quickly.

Mac, some excellent points made and a lot of what you say sums up my own feelings having taken time to reflect on that debacle. I would add that in those "big games" the scoreline could have been much, much worse. Still 18 minutes to play when they bagged their 7th - 8/9 or even 10 was not beyond them.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 11:49 AM
For all the guys on here talking about perspective, one word, Drogheda. Are they a better side than us??, probably. There's your perspective!, hibs are a bigger joke than hertz now, and that's saying something!!. Club is rotten from top to bottom.

Too far.

Big Frank
26-07-2013, 11:55 AM
Maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to empty Doyle, but I think that Hibs were very confident of keeping Griffiths. He had made all the right noises, publicly, and most thought that Wolves wouldn't be too difficult to deal with. Sacking manager brought a change of mindset and the expected transfer fell through.

Rumours are that we tried to get Taylor, but didn't have the readies and we've been looking to strengthen since then.

I have never bought a football player so I can't comment on how long that process takes, but I do know it's not easy to get quality when you don't have millions to spend. We have reportedly just shelled out £200k for a highly rated striker and Vine looks a decent acquisition and could make a good partner up front.

The Europa League was never a priority. We only qualified for it through the back door anyway and we were never going to make any real progress.

I was under the impression Hibernian had £2,000,000 sitting in the bank (last years accounts?). Couple of Scottish Cup finals and nae managerial sackings (not yet anyway).

Would suggest Hibernian did have the readies ?

Halifaxhibby
26-07-2013, 11:56 AM
Too far.

How so???

bigwheel
26-07-2013, 12:01 PM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

I actually agree with this premise...everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong. They seemed to score every time they went forward. The worrying thing for me, is that these storms, seem to happen for Fenlon's Hibs more than any other manager. We often end on on the back of some sort of "unwanted" record....Maybe he's just not a lucky manager?? Even if he has got confidence in his ability, I'm not sure he will last out this storm.

greenlex
26-07-2013, 12:14 PM
If it had been 3 or 4 would fans be less suicidal? Be honest? If they had missed one of he first two or three and Williams had been his usual self would we be as down?

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 12:15 PM
I was under the impression Hibernian had £2,000,000 sitting in the bank (last years accounts?). Couple of Scottish Cup finals and nae managerial sackings (not yet anyway).

Would suggest Hibernian did have the readies ?

£2m in the bank is for wages and running costs throughout the year.

CropleyWasGod
26-07-2013, 12:19 PM
If it had been 3 or 4 would fans be less suicidal? Be honest? If they had missed one of he first two or three and Williams had been his usual self would we be as down?

I think that part of the reason for the darkness is that we (collectively; not the more astute fans) had allowed ourselves to be built up with a sense of expectation. The hype around the game took on a life of its own, especially after LR died. (The club actually played that bit very well.)

However, having been built up, any convincing defeat would have been sore to take.

WhileTheChief..
26-07-2013, 12:21 PM
If it had been 3 or 4 would fans be less suicidal? Be honest? If they had missed one of he first two or three and Williams had been his usual self would we be as down?

Bizarre post. If it was only 3 or 4 it wouldn't be our worst result ever or the worst a Scottish club has had in Europe.

It wouldn't have been such an embarrassment or humiliation either so yeah I'd have been less suicidal.

Goes without saying no?!

7-0 at home to anybody should be automatic dismissal for any manager of any team anywhere.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 12:25 PM
If it had been 3 or 4 would fans be less suicidal? Be honest? If they had missed one of he first two or three and Williams had been his usual self would we be as down?

If only they had missed seven of their chances and we had taken three of ours, we'd have been through and everyone would be happy.

****ing reality spoiling things as usual.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 12:26 PM
Bizarre post. If it was only 3 or 4 it wouldn't be our worst result ever or the worst a Scottish club has had in Europe.

It wouldn't have been such an embarrassment or humiliation either so yeah I'd have been less suicidal.

Goes without saying no?!

7-0 at home to anybody should be automatic dismissal for any manager of any team anywhere.

The last line is stupid, really.

Big Frank
26-07-2013, 12:29 PM
£2m in the bank is for wages and running costs throughout the year.

eh?

Money in Hibernians bank account is NOT for strengthening the team?

Just for wages and running costs?



...anyway the point I was making was that you stated Hibernian didn't have the readies. I'm not sure this is the case at all. Hibernian definately had the readies. Definately. They chose not to use them for that particular player.

We have had season ticket monies in, league payments for last season, and a Scottish cup final and players leaving etc since those accounts.

ach, all moot anyway, the cabbage (apparently) didnae get their man and we are where we are.

Hibs eh! It would take St Johnstone about 5 home games to pull in the readies Hibs did last night

cabbageandribs1875
26-07-2013, 12:30 PM
the Malmo manager reckons they got all the breaks as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23460529

"It was one of those lucky days for us," he said. "Everything that went close to the goal, it wanted to go in."

BarneyK
26-07-2013, 12:31 PM
the Malmo manager reckons they got all the breaks as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23460529

"It was one of those lucky days for us," he said. "Everything that went close to the goal, it wanted to go in."

He's being kind to us. Bless him.

Mac
26-07-2013, 12:32 PM
£2m in the bank is for wages and running costs throughout the year.

So what about ST holders, walk ups, sponsorship, sales on players, retails, food outlets, hospitlaity, TV revenue, additional matches ie cup, europe etc?

Also we do have a player budget expected around £2m to cover wages and the purchase of players, is this different?

Or is the £2m a forecast on revenue for the season ahead?

Phil D. Rolls
26-07-2013, 12:32 PM
I think this is a very interesting lesson on perspective. Many posters who rarely make comment on results, or anything else, have been so angered by this result that they have had to let their feelings out on here.

I think it is time for the board to sit up and take notice. It is one thing the regular gob*****s (me, for example) posting all sorts of nonsense and getting into arguments that we think are important.

But when you realise there is a silent majority out there. Hibs fans, that just like to watch their team without feeling the need to make a big deal about it on the internet. When they are moved to show their face, then you have to take a step back, and realise that something is going on.

We shouldn't ask where these people are the rest of the time. We should ask what has changed that they now feel the need to post.

Personally, I think most managers would merit the sack after that. I want Fenlon to stay, because at least he knows himself what went wrong. I recall a previous manager that justified his tactics to the hilt after exiting Europe at a similar stage.

I fear that people have had their patience tested far enough though.

cabbageandribs1875
26-07-2013, 12:33 PM
He's being kind to us. Bless him.


he certainly got one thing right though, every time they came forward i felt they could have scored, i actually felt they could have moved up another gear as well :(

Andy74
26-07-2013, 12:36 PM
I think this is a very interesting lesson on perspective. Many posters who rarely make comment on results, or anything else, have been so angered by this result that they have had to let their feelings out on here.

I think it is time for the board to sit up and take notice. It is one thing the regular gob*****s (me, for example) posting all sorts of nonsense and getting into arguments that we think are important.

But when you realise there is a silent majority out there. Hibs fans, that just like to watch their team without feeling the need to make a big deal about it on the internet. When they are moved to show their face, then you have to take a step back, and realise that something is going on.

We shouldn't ask where these people are the rest of the time. We should ask what has changed that they now feel the need to post.

Personally, I think most managers would merit the sack after that. I want Fenlon to stay, because at least he knows himself what went wrong. I recall a previous manager that justified his tactics to the hilt after exiting Europe at a similar stage.

I fear that people have had their patience tested far enough though.

Isn't the fact they are silent most of the time an inidication that, actually, this is a bit of a one off and yes, it's correct to be very angry about it, but making out as if this is the norm and drastic action needs to be taken....that's where the perspective has to be considered.

Phil D. Rolls
26-07-2013, 12:41 PM
Isn't the fact they are silent most of the time an inidication that, actually, this is a bit of a one off and yes, it's correct to be very angry about it, but making out as if this is the norm and drastic action needs to be taken....that's where the perspective has to be considered.

I suppose it's for them to say why they are so angry this time. Analysing a lot of posts on here, they are from people that normally don't say too much. Interesting.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 12:41 PM
So what about ST holders, walk ups, sponsorship, sales on players, retails, food outlets, hospitlaity, TV revenue, additional matches ie cup, europe etc?

Also we do have a player budget expected around £2m to cover wages and the purchase of players, is this different?

Or is the £2m a forecast on revenue for the season ahead?

I don't know.

I only know we're not awash with cash.

Or do you think otherwise?

ackeygraham
26-07-2013, 12:42 PM
Rarely post so the usual accusations will fly, but here goes anyway... What are Hibs for? Seriously? We can't win the league and we probably won't win a cup so European qualification is the most realistic goal in any given season. But why would we want that, when all that happens is that we get ritually humped by the first team we come up against, no matter who they are?

The idea of building a team for the likes of us season by season has long gone in the Post-Bosman age so steady progress and improvement is unlikely. So I ask again, what are we for?

Realise this sounds positively suicidal, but I've been watching this for too long and I no longer feel any real disappointment, just exhaustion. And that's tragic.

Cannot agree more - this is the pinnacle to our season's in competing in europe. So to not be ready is a disgrace, and pumped at first hurdle by Malmo (decent side) Odense, Mairbor.....the list is endless. So why bother next season then going for Europe ?

Paddy has brought us so many unwanted records it's unbelievable....and so many crap midfielders too....and a defence that needs a lot of work, but don't worry i'll sign more midfielders.

He has to go after this and let the new manager get a shot at the transfer window before it's too late.

ackeygraham
26-07-2013, 12:43 PM
the Malmo manager reckons they got all the breaks as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23460529

"It was one of those lucky days for us," he said. "Everything that went close to the goal, it wanted to go in."

I think he's just being kind.....

AgentDaleCooper
26-07-2013, 12:44 PM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.


it really is a sign of how fundamentally ****ed we are that someone is trying to rationalise us getting beaten 7-0 at home. it's never, ever even a shade of understandable for that to happen. it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, what the causes of us loosing by THAT score are - it just shouldn't be allowed to happen. EVER.

this result proves once again what has been proved over and over in the past 5 years - there is something truly rotten at hibs, and changing managers isn't fixing it. we have no spine, no guts, we're just flapping and flailing around, praying that we don't get relegated and enter into a complete free-fall.

if you want to rationalise this sort of result, then fair enough - but it's utterly worthless if you can't see a way out of our downward spiral, and i for one cannot.

doom. :aok:

Mac
26-07-2013, 12:45 PM
Isn't the fact they are silent most of the time an inidication that, actually, this is a bit of a one off and yes, it's correct to be very angry about it, but making out as if this is the norm and drastic action needs to be taken....that's where the perspective has to be considered.

I certainly am not a prolific poster as i was many moons ago, this mainly due to work commitments and places I worked being very strict on these sort of public forums, I do think your comment is more than patronising and Big Brother esq (as per) since this is an open public forum for Hibs supporters and Mikey tries to drive traffic onto the site then surely anyone, in the democratic nation we live in, has a right to post what they want (to an extent) when they want and if they feel the result last night was the one that finally tipped them over the edge to vent their anger/opinion then surely that isnt something for 'regulars' to take a swipe at? no? in fact it should be welcomed to give us a more accurate overview on a larger portion of the support and the feelings towards all things Hibs

Mac
26-07-2013, 12:47 PM
I don't know.

I only know we're not awash with cash.

Or do you think otherwise?

Not at all, you gave an indication of a sum of money and I wondered what the breakdown was and what it all included to grasp just what sort of budget PF has.

AgentDaleCooper
26-07-2013, 12:49 PM
I think this is a very interesting lesson on perspective. Many posters who rarely make comment on results, or anything else, have been so angered by this result that they have had to let their feelings out on here.

I think it is time for the board to sit up and take notice. It is one thing the regular gob*****s (me, for example) posting all sorts of nonsense and getting into arguments that we think are important.

But when you realise there is a silent majority out there. Hibs fans, that just like to watch their team without feeling the need to make a big deal about it on the internet. When they are moved to show their face, then you have to take a step back, and realise that something is going on.

We shouldn't ask where these people are the rest of the time. We should ask what has changed that they now feel the need to post.

Personally, I think most managers would merit the sack after that. I want Fenlon to stay, because at least he knows himself what went wrong. I recall a previous manager that justified his tactics to the hilt after exiting Europe at a similar stage.

I fear that people have had their patience tested far enough though.

i'd pretty much agree with you - i don't think there's much point in sacking fenlon at the moment. but i think this season has to be basically a case of 'keep us up', before an utterly massive change at every level of the club takes place. caldwell, forster, harris, handling can stay, absolutely everyone one else, from Petrie downwards (maybe even higher), needs to GTF.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 12:50 PM
Cannot agree more - this is the pinnacle to our season's in competing in europe. So to not be ready is a disgrace, and pumped at first hurdle by Malmo (decent side) Odense, Mairbor.....the list is endless. So why bother next season then going for Europe ?

Paddy has brought us so many unwanted records it's unbelievable....and so many crap midfielders too....and a defence that needs a lot of work, but don't worry i'll sign more midfielders.

He has to go after this and let the new manager get a shot at the transfer window before it's too late.

We didn't "Go for europe" last season.

We got in by the back door.

Our team were relegation candidates a year ago. We were 7th in the season just finished.

We lost the most potent striker we've had for years.

Losing by 7 - 0 at home is horrible, but what makes folk think we were in any position to beat Malmo who, with more than half their season played, are sitting 2 points off the top of their league, having been top until last week?

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 12:52 PM
Not at all, you gave an indication of a sum of money and I wondered what the breakdown was and what it all included to grasp just what sort of budget PF has.

Someone else said that according to Hibs accounts, we had £2m cash in the bank.

I was trying to suggest this wasn't spare money, but it was needed to run the club over the year.

Andy74
26-07-2013, 12:57 PM
i'd pretty much agree with you - i don't think there's much point in sacking fenlon at the moment. but i think this season has to be basically a case of 'keep us up', before an utterly massive change at every level of the club takes place. caldwell, forster, harris, handling can stay, absolutely everyone one else, from Petrie downwards (maybe even higher), needs to GTF.

Eh no, this season has to be top 3 or 4, not keep us up.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 01:01 PM
it really is a sign of how fundamentally ****ed we are that someone is trying to rationalise us getting beaten 7-0 at home. it's never, ever even a shade of understandable for that to happen. it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, what the causes of us loosing by THAT score are - it just shouldn't be allowed to happen. EVER.

this result proves once again what has been proved over and over in the past 5 years - there is something truly rotten at hibs, and changing managers isn't fixing it. we have no spine, no guts, we're just flapping and flailing around, praying that we don't get relegated and enter into a complete free-fall.

if you want to rationalise this sort of result, then fair enough - but it's utterly worthless if you can't see a way out of our downward spiral, and i for one cannot.

doom. :aok:

I think it's a bit of a freak result.

Like when Calderwood got his first win when we beat Rangers 3 - 0 at Ibrox, with Liam Miller, John Rankin and Francis Dickoh scoring. Judging by that alone, we should have gone on to challenge for the title.

Yes, losing 7 is unacceptable, but I don't believe that the result of one European tie in July should be used as a barometer for the rest of the season.

gegs70
26-07-2013, 01:02 PM
it really is a sign of how fundamentally ****ed we are that someone is trying to rationalise us getting beaten 7-0 at home. it's never, ever even a shade of understandable for that to happen. it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, what the causes of us loosing by THAT score are - it just shouldn't be allowed to happen. EVER.

this result proves once again what has been proved over and over in the past 5 years - there is something truly rotten at hibs, and changing managers isn't fixing it. we have no spine, no guts, we're just flapping and flailing around, praying that we don't get relegated and enter into a complete free-fall.

if you want to rationalise this sort of result, then fair enough - but it's utterly worthless if you can't see a way out of our downward spiral, and i for one cannot.

doom. :aok:
I would have expected hibs to have had 3 players sent if and an injury to have achieved a resultvlike that!

Mac
26-07-2013, 01:08 PM
Someone else said that according to Hibs accounts, we had £2m cash in the bank.

I was trying to suggest this wasn't spare money, but it was needed to run the club over the year.

I wouldnt have thought there was any 'spare money' at any football club and with Hibs annual accounts showing a slight loss it would be pigeon holed for something, if £2m covers the running costs and wages then Hibs are doing a magnificent job against turnover to control finances, so maybe there is a little bit to play with as the £200k paid yesterday proves.

FitbaFolkKen
26-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Rarely post so the usual accusations will fly, but here goes anyway... What are Hibs for? Seriously? We can't win the league and we probably won't win a cup so European qualification is the most realistic goal in any given season. But why would we want that, when all that happens is that we get ritually humped by the first team we come up against, no matter who they are?

The idea of building a team for the likes of us season by season has long gone in the Post-Bosman age so steady progress and improvement is unlikely. So I ask again, what are we for?

Realise this sounds positively suicidal, but I've been watching this for too long and I no longer feel any real disappointment, just exhaustion. And that's tragic.

I actually had the exact conversation with my taxi driver on the way back. Even lower league teams have a modicum of success to celebrate. Whereas we are floating mid table and it seems at the minute that every big game we get the opportunity to play in we capitulate within 20 minutes. Then we are miserable for 60 minutes before we move on to singing for the last ten because what is on the pitch has become unbearable to watch. We are not in a good place and while it continues like this we will always be "good" losers.

The Malmo fans clapping us for singing near the end is tragic and indicative of how far our club has fallen.

Beefster
26-07-2013, 02:40 PM
what makes folk think we were in any position to beat Malmo who, with more than half their season played, are sitting 2 points off the top of their league, having been top until last week?

I'm not sure many folk actually think that. If it had been 1-0 to them, 1-1 or even 2-0 to them with us going down fighting, most folk would probably have accepted it.

It's the result, performance, Fenlon's general performance and another big-game capitulation that have provoked the outrage. The fact that St Johnstone did themselves proud and a part-time, mid-table LoI team did remarkably better than Hibs isn't helping either.

Hibbyradge
26-07-2013, 02:48 PM
I'm not sure many folk actually think that. If it had been 1-0 to them, 1-1 or even 2-0 to them with us going down fighting, most folk would probably have accepted it.

It's the result, performance, Fenlon's general performance and another big-game capitulation that have provoked the outrage. The fact that St Johnstone did themselves proud and a part-time, mid-table LoI team did remarkably better than Hibs isn't helping either.

I accept all that.

I was replying to someone who was complaining that we got knocked out at the first hurdle. At least that's how I interpreted his post.

sadtom
26-07-2013, 02:50 PM
Why has my post been deleted?
Any swear words were astrixed out.
Hibs.net thought police at it again. Pathetic.

Speedway
26-07-2013, 02:53 PM
For all the guys on here talking about perspective, one word, Drogheda. Are they a better side than us??, probably. There's your perspective!, hibs are a bigger joke than hertz now, and that's saying something!!. Club is rotten from top to bottom.

It is and the government is corrupt and the tooth fairy isn't real and cruelty exists and I've also heard there are these things called 'Drugs'.

All the purity has gone, pass me the swan vestas and petrol. Goodbye cruel world.

greenlex
26-07-2013, 09:25 PM
Bizarre post. If it was only 3 or 4 it wouldn't be our worst result ever or the worst a Scottish club has had in Europe.

It wouldn't have been such an embarrassment or humiliation either so yeah I'd have been less suicidal.

Goes without saying no?!

7-0 at home to anybody should be automatic dismissal for any manager of any team anywhere.

In the context of the thread its far from bizarre. Perspective. I do understand why people are angry but some of the comments and criticism is way over the top IMO. We really need to suck it up. Fenlon should see out his tenure and if change is needed ciome the summer then that's the time for it. His remit should be top six and a bit of football played along the way. A wee trip to Hampden or two would be a bonus. Failing that he should be gone. Two cup final showings and an absolute humping in Europe shouldn't be the basis for the sack however hard that is for most.

Sir David Gray
26-07-2013, 09:36 PM
Perfect storm (noun)

A detrimental or calamitous situation or event arising from the powerful combined effect of a unique set of circumstances

Last night was truly horrible, but it seems to me that everything did come together at exactly the same time to create the circumstances which allowed it to happen.

Firstly, let's not kid ourselves, Malmo are a good side. As early as the first minute or so, my mate said "this lot know what they're doing" or words to that effect and they went on to prove him right with an impressive and ruthless performance.

We didn't have a goal scorer on the park and I said on one of the threads that I didn't think we could possibly overturn the first leg deficit as we wouldn't score.

Malmo knew we had no cutting edge, but they also knew that if they conceded one, we might create some momentum. Our best chance would have been from a set piece, so Malmo didn't concede any free kicks. However, as soon as they scored, they knew the tie was beyond any last doubt so they abandoned all caution and ripped into us, knowing that should we win the ball, we couldn't capitalise on it.

On more than one occasion, Malmo let us come at them, took the ball of us and within 5 seconds, had 6 or 7 players attacking us at speed around or in our 18 yard box. They wouldn't have been so cavalier had we posed them a threat at the back.

Our right and left backs were injured so we had to redeploy our centre half and use Stevenson again. Why they were played on the left and right respectively, I'm not sure, but I can only imagine it was a vain attempt to counter their forwards cutting inside.

Then, our captain injured himself trying to clear the Malmo attack which led to their killer first goal. So, after 20 minutes we found ourself 3 - 0 down, with a weakened defence which was already makeshift, and no goalscorers. The best managers in the world couldn't have stopped us from getting gubbed.

I understand people being angry and I was sickened by it, but we need to view the thing with some perspective too.

I understand what you're saying here although it's not a popular viewpoint.

woody0-7
28-07-2013, 02:48 PM
Hey guys does anyone think that up until Thursday things were acctually coming together for the coming season . I like everyone of us was disgusted with what we witnessed the other night but I think it was a freak result all things came together and went wrong at once( perfect storm thread)
I think last season we didn't have the right players in to play fenlons favoured 4 5 1 formation . Leigh for all his goals wasnt brilliant at holding up play to let our midfield get up into attacking positions ,with Collins hopefully this won't be the case and let Craig/vine/Robertson/Harris stat scoring some goals for us because without the weeman there going to have to come from somewhere.
Pat said he wanted 6 players in a few weeks ago we have 3 so hopefully Claros, a commanding ch and either a right back if Clancy is goosed or a forward if he can acctually have a decent run and I think we might acctually be surprised at how this year might go that is if pat learns from his mistakes and for god sake don't play Lewis at right back!

Wotherspiniesta
28-07-2013, 02:58 PM
Its not a bad point you make TBF. It was a humiliating night for everyone involved, but the season hasn't even started yet. We've made some decent additions in Craig and OTJ. Honestly can't comment on Collins, but its a massive leap of faith with regards to his talent given the money we've spent to bring him in. Hopefully he can get off to a good start and prove its money well spent.

I still think we're a few bodies short. I reckon we need a pacey/creative midfielder, CH, RB and another forward.

A lot of faith has been lost in the players/management over what was one shocking night against strong opponents. They've got a lot to prove heading in to the start of the season, but I think we've got a few experienced individuals to help us through what will be a tricky start.

HUTCHYHIBBY
28-07-2013, 03:02 PM
Whilst pre-season games are not really an indicator of how a season will turn out the results haven't exactly been inspiring. I really think the loss of Leigh this season is huge and will be surprised if we make it into the top 6 at the split.

blackpoolhibs
28-07-2013, 03:05 PM
It is a good point, and i'd say we were being hoodwinked into thinking things were fine and things were ticking along fine.

We found out on Thursday just how far away from a decent European run we are, and how thin our squad really is.

We also found out how our fans again will come out and support the club if they think we are on the brink of something, but only to be let down again.

As things stand, i think we have found out how week we are, in my opinion weaker than we were last season after a 7th place finish.

We will bring more players in, that's a given but will Thursdays result put any of our targets off?

Moon unit
28-07-2013, 03:09 PM
It is a good point, and i'd say we were being hoodwinked into thinking things were fine and things were ticking along fine.

We found out on Thursday just how far away from a decent European run we are, and how thin our squad really is.

We also found out how our fans again will come out and support the club if they think we are on the brink of something, but only to be let down again.

As things stand, i think we have found out how week we are, in my opinion weaker than we were last season after a 7th place finish.

We will bring more players in, that's a given but will Thursdays result put any of our targets off?

After watching the game at Kirkcaldy, felt this is gonna' be a long,long season!...

snooky
28-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Tactically what do you think Pat Fenlon got right last night ?

We kicked up the slope in the first half?

woody0-7
28-07-2013, 03:26 PM
Any ideas why my thread disappeared admin?

jgl07
28-07-2013, 04:03 PM
£2m in the bank is for wages and running costs throughout the year.

But big clubs all spend their season ticket money before the season starts and then rely on cake bakes and bogus share issues to stagger on until January!

Paisley Hibby
28-07-2013, 04:31 PM
Every last one of us is hurting and hurting bad but simply to demand heads roll is not the answer. Dont get me wrong there are no positives from last night but rather than tearing into each other and the club we have a window now to look at this in perspective and give the management of the club a chance to sort it out.

I am deeply embarrased by last nights result just like you but come on, lets see beyond our anger and realise that simply dismissing the manager today does nothing for stability at the club.....

And finally, yes, if we get humped off Motherwell & the Hearts I will be flooding my bedroom with urine as well but I'm hopeful that if PF learns from last night and listens to the counsel of his new assistant it wont come to that.

GGTTH....

There's a smuch chance of the current club management sorting this mess as I have off getting my hole off Angelina Jolie.

RecobasUncle
28-07-2013, 05:14 PM
'Perspective' would be a perfectly valid term for 0-7 if a sniper had injured most of our team and killed the goalkeeper.