Spanish Train Derailment

[Sylar]

What a horrifyingly tragic story this is - driver was punching his speed at twice the track limit on a notoriously difficult bend and physics takes care of the rest.

80 people dead and scores more injured and I would imagine a prosecution for manslaughter for the driver.

The video footage which has been released of the train derailing is quite unbelievable (second video down the page):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/spain-train-crash-travelling-so-fast

[Jonnyboy]

What a horrifyingly tragic story this is - driver was punching his speed at twice the track limit on a notoriously difficult bend and physics takes care of the rest.

80 people dead and scores more injured and I would imagine a prosecution for manslaughter for the driver.

The video footage which has been released of the train derailing is quite unbelievable (second video down the page):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/spain-train-crash-travelling-so-fast

That is horrendous

[cabbageandribs1875]

the driver has actually admitted he saw and heard the alarm in the train(indicating the train was going too fast) no wonder he's said he wants to die

[The_Exile]

How can someone with responsibility of a couple of hundred people's lives do that, IMO he knew that would happen, of course he would, you don't go round a bend like that, at that speed, and think everything will be fine, I think he's done it on purpose, why?!! I can't get my head around it.

[Sylar]

the driver has actually admitted he saw and heard the alarm in the train(indicating the train was going too fast) no wonder he's said he wants to die

The same driver has also previously posted on his Facebook account (apparently) pictures of speedometers in excess of 200km/h!

The Union of Train Drivers in Spain are blaming the track, saying it wasn't adequate as it didn't have the ERTMS system to automatically reduce the speed of the train...even had it had the system in place, it probably wouldn't have reduced the speed enough to have prevented the accident as it's estimated he was doing 190km/h in an 80km/h zone!

I understand his feeling of guilt but I don't feel sorry for him.

[lapsedhibee]

The same driver has also previously posted on his Facebook account (apparently) pictures of speedometers in excess of 200km/h!

Why is that significant, when the train routinely goes above those speeds on straighter stretches of track?

[Sylar]

Why is that significant, when the train routinely goes above those speeds on straighter stretches of track?

A valid question I guess - I was merely reporting what had been highlighted in the media today but it's a fair point LH.

[lapsedhibee]

I was merely reporting what had been highlighted in the media today.

Well don't. We shirley know by now that the MSM is full of Save Hearts In Trouble. :greengrin

[(((Fergus)))]

Why is that significant, when the train routinely goes above those speeds on straighter stretches of track?

Maybe the question isn't so much "OMG! why was he going so fast?", but rather why would you post a picture of the speedometer - at close to top speed - on Facebook? Perhaps he has pictures of all the instruments in his train and it just so happened the that speedo was at full whack. It will all come out eventually, suppose.

[lapsedhibee]

Maybe the question isn't so much "OMG! why was he going so fast?", but rather why would you post a picture of the speedometer - at close to top speed - on Facebook? Perhaps he has pictures of all the instruments in his train and it just so happened the that speedo was at full whack. It will all come out eventually, suppose.

Sincerely hope Dave will include photographs of the insides of trains in his list of things that people should be discouraged from viewing on the internets. Think whacking is already included. 200kmph is not that close to a full whacking though - think these trains are scheduled to go at 310kmph in some places, so 200kmph is shirley not that bragworthy?

[Sylar]

Sincerely hope Dave will include photographs of the insides of trains in his list of things that people should be discouraged from viewing on the internets. Think whacking is already included. 200kmph is not that close to a full whacking though - think these trains are scheduled to go at 310kmph in some places, so 200kmph is shirley not that bragworthy?

Guess it depends where on the track it was - he said in the comment which was attached that any faster and he'd be fined by the operator.

[(((Fergus)))]

Sincerely hope Dave will include photographs of the insides of trains in his list of things that people should be discouraged from viewing on the internets. Think whacking is already included. 200kmph is not that close to a full whacking though - think these trains are scheduled to go at 310kmph in some places, so 200kmph is shirley not that bragworthy?

On the picture I saw, the needle was almost at the end of the scale.

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/238892/article_5a391c1b6b3e33b4_1374830903_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

[lapsedhibee]

On the picture I saw, the needle was almost at the end of the scale.

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/238892/article_5a391c1b6b3e33b4_1374830903_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

Ah, right. My mistake - had thought that he was driving AVE trains, but in fact the train that crashed was part of the old-fashioned slower Talgo system.

(Always good to see a dial that goes up to 11 rather than just 10 of anything.)

[RyeSloan]

Ah, right. My mistake - had thought that he was driving AVE trains, but in fact the train that crashed was part of the old-fashioned slower Talgo system.

(Always good to see a dial that goes up to 11 rather than just 10 of anything.)

The train was essentially brand new, only introduced two years ago.

From what I've read speed does seem to be an issue but it would appear that the track design hasn't helped in that it goes from a very fast stretch to one that has an 80kph limit.

Horrible to think that this could be down to driver error and even worse is if he willfully ignored warnings.

[lapsedhibee]

The train was essentially brand new, only introduced two years ago.


Not really brand new, then. Could have gone 3 million kilometres in that time (or more, if the driver was going for facebook props). :wink:

[Sylar]

He's now been charged with manslaughter.

78 counts of that should see him locked away for a very long time.

[lapsedhibee]

Some of the reporting's been a tad confusing.

This is a recent BBC offering:

"The BBC's transport correspondent Richard Westcott says Spain has led the world in building its high speed network over the past twenty years, and generally has a good safety record.

This is backed up by figures from the European Railway Agency, which put Spain 18th safest out of 27 countries in terms of passenger deaths per kilometre travelled, over the period 2006-2011."

How does being 18th out of 27 back up the notion that Spain has a good safety record?" :dunno:

[(((Fergus)))]

Some of the reporting's been a tad confusing.

This is a recent BBC offering:

"The BBC's transport correspondent Richard Westcott says Spain has led the world in building its high speed network over the past twenty years, and generally has a good safety record.

This is backed up by figures from the European Railway Agency, which put Spain 18th safest out of 27 countries in terms of passenger deaths per kilometre travelled, over the period 2006-2011."

How does being 18th out of 27 back up the notion that Spain has a good safety record?" :dunno:

Firstly, the countries are compared in terms of fatalities per billion passenger-km (between 2006 and 2011). The study is therefore weighted against countries with larger and busier rail networks. In the most recent data, Spain had 21.4 billion passenger-km compared with 56.06 billion in the UK (even though our network is only 1.5 times larger than Spain's - 31,108 km vs. 19,372 km) and 6.89 billion in Denmark ("safest" country in the study with 4,094 km of track).

Secondly, the safety standards across the EU are so high that the gap between first place and 18th is not all that great. In fact, the top six countries had no fatalities at all during 2006-2011.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/07/passenger-fatality.png

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/jul/25/how-safe-are-europe-railways
http://www.era.europa.eu/Document-Register/Documents/SPR%202013%20Final%20for%20web.pdf

[lapsedhibee]

Firstly, the countries are compared in terms of fatalities per billion passenger-km (between 2006 and 2011). The study is therefore weighted against countries with larger and busier rail networks. In the most recent data, Spain had 21.4 billion passenger-km compared with 56.06 billion in the UK (even though our network is only 1.5 times larger than Spain's - 31,108 km vs. 19,372 km) and 6.89 billion in Denmark ("safest" country in the study with 4,094 km of track).

Secondly, the safety standards across the EU are so high that the gap between first place and 18th is not all that great. In fact, the top six countries had no fatalities at all during 2006-2011.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/07/passenger-fatality.png

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/jul/25/how-safe-are-europe-railways
http://www.era.europa.eu/Document-Register/Documents/SPR%202013%20Final%20for%20web.pdf

Still, if you're trying to make the point that someone's very tall, you wouldn't first say "He's the 18th tallest of the 27 people in the village". Similarly, it makes no sense to suggest that Spain's record is very good and immediately back it up with "It's 18th safest out of 27".
Imo.

[RyeSloan]

Not really brand new, then. Could have gone 3 million kilometres in that time (or more, if the driver was going for facebook props). :wink:

True but considering Britain is still running express services on a design introduced in 1976 in train terms it is essentially a new train!

[(((Fergus)))]

Still, if you're trying to make the point that someone's very tall, you wouldn't first say "He's the 18th tallest of the 27 people in the village". Similarly, it makes no sense to suggest that Spain's record is very good and immediately back it up with "It's 18th safest out of 27".
Imo.

Oh yes, I was going to agree with you that the press report was worded strangely.

[cabbageandribs1875]

different mode of transport, the news the last few weeks seems to be full of crashes and life's lost

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23486086


A coach has plunged off a flyover in southern Italy leaving at least 38 people dead, rescue services say.

[southfieldhibby]

Came back from Spain a couple of days after this disaster, and had used a couple of trains during my visit.the local trains there are about as good as ours, but the fast ones are terrific.The camp site we stay at had a train line going thru the middle of it and me and the wee man play the train game ( 1st to spot the train shouts Renfe and gets a point, winner of the day gets to choose dessert for both at night) Anyway, after the crash there was a noticable reduction in speed of the trains.