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Chuck Rhoades
25-07-2013, 10:24 PM
Paul Hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.

MichelleHibs
25-07-2013, 10:25 PM
Disagree but he's never a left back!

Chuck Rhoades
25-07-2013, 10:27 PM
Disagree but he's never a left back!

How can you defend it?

McPake - improved it when he first arrived, as did Forster.

We've been leaking goals for years with Hanlon in the defence, but because he came through our academy it's acceptable.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

rossi
25-07-2013, 10:31 PM
Aye! As long as we've got a good scapegoat everything will be fine. Should never have sold Nish.

Chuck Rhoades
25-07-2013, 10:32 PM
Aye! As long as we've got a good scapegoat everything will be fine. Should never have sold Nish.

What exactly has PH done since 2009?

Chuck Rhoades
25-07-2013, 10:32 PM
Apart from being part of one of the worst Hibs defences in history.

pedroorange1875
25-07-2013, 10:33 PM
Forster dragged all over the place tonight covering for him, Forster will be a really good player and we better watch if we keep pairing him with Hanlon

carnoustiehibee
25-07-2013, 10:38 PM
Paul Hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.

you have big cahoonas to do this on here. the sooner he signs for Fulham the better. :aok:

Brightside
25-07-2013, 10:39 PM
Despite the amount of goals its not the defence per se that's the problem. They ran right through the midfield. They attacked in numbers. Our players stopped and left it to the defence. We have a major coaching problem. Harris was obv told to hold his midfield position again a waste of a player. We have decent players in the wrong positions for every game.

Weir7
25-07-2013, 10:41 PM
Forster dragged all over the place tonight covering for him, Forster will be a really good player and we better watch if we keep pairing him with Hanlon

Foster was about to be freed and had good game aginst **** and got a years deal. He has no pace. So be intersting to see how he develops as a defender this season.

MichelleHibs
25-07-2013, 10:42 PM
How about the crap that's played alongside him too?! Mcpake is as big a liability... Take tonight for example... Dives about the place making stupid challenges trying to be the hero but inevitably ends up contributing to us conceding and then having to go off injured. He was the same last week too, conceded free kick that we lost first goal too and got booked inevitably ruling him out of challenges. Just don't think Hanlon is solely to blame! Nor do I think he is star man either!

pedroorange1875
25-07-2013, 10:44 PM
Foster was about to be freed and had good game aginst **** and got a years deal. He has no pace. So be intersting to see how he develops as a defender this season.

He seemed to keep up with the small quick black guy up front most of the time i saw him running with him, as you say will be interesting to see how he fairs but i fear for him being paired with Hanlon

kentao
25-07-2013, 10:46 PM
Every other defender has been replaced apart from Hanlon and we still cant defend. I think he is the problem?

We will only really find out once hes gone.

Chuck Rhoades
25-07-2013, 10:53 PM
How about the crap that's played alongside him too?! Mcpake is as big a liability... Take tonight for example... Dives about the place making stupid challenges trying to be the hero but inevitably ends up contributing to us conceding and then having to go off injured. He was the same last week too, conceded free kick that we lost first goal too and got booked inevitably ruling him out of challenges. Just don't think Hanlon is solely to blame! Nor do I think he is star man either!

So every defender Hanlon has been paired against is *****? Aye ok.

AlbertK86
25-07-2013, 11:00 PM
I've said for years that Hanlon is a massive problem... Ball watches all the time

Stevenson likewise

Forster and McGivern at CH for me but eff knows what we do for full backs

sesoim
25-07-2013, 11:04 PM
Paul Hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.


He's one of many problems we've had, but yes, he should not be a first choice defender for us. I've suggested a few times he could maybe do a job in midfield, but if Fenlon wont try him there how will we ever know?

Boyle89
25-07-2013, 11:13 PM
Despite the amount of goals its not the defence per se that's the problem. They ran right through the midfield. They attacked in numbers. Our players stopped and left it to the defence..
This! Nobody followed the runners!

SmallvilleHibee
25-07-2013, 11:17 PM
I said this after the cup final. He did nothing last season and managed to give away 2 goals in a Scottish Cup Final. I think Forster and McGivern will be our strongest CB pairing this season. Hopefully we sell him in the January transfer window and get a few bob.

SmallvilleHibee
25-07-2013, 11:18 PM
This! Nobody followed the runners!
I think Liam Craig was the worst for this.

MichelleHibs
25-07-2013, 11:33 PM
So every defender Hanlon has been paired against is *****? Aye ok.

No but he ain't the only scapegoat. We're all hurting after tonight, another defeat in a long line, changes need to be made but it ain't going to happen overnight!

Chuck Rhoades
26-07-2013, 06:16 AM
No but he ain't the only scapegoat. We're all hurting after tonight, another defeat in a long line, changes need to be made but it ain't going to happen overnight!

I've seen little to no improvement in four years. Thankfull we had Sparky last year to watch.

Weir7
26-07-2013, 06:50 AM
He seemed to keep up with the small quick black guy up front most of the time i saw him running with him, as you say will be interesting to see how he fairs but i fear for him being paired with Hanlon

I don't thik anybody kept up with that guy. He was fast. In the 1st leg the defence was allover the place. It could easily have been a cricket score. Against Celtic in the cup final defence got ripped apart.

Winston Ingram
26-07-2013, 06:51 AM
Paul Hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.

:blah:

Jim44
26-07-2013, 06:57 AM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.

Holmesdale Hibs
26-07-2013, 07:03 AM
Agree we should be looking for new defenders but that's hardly a difficult conclusion to reach after last night. Hanlon is one of a collectively **** defence. Don't care if he gets dropped but I don't think he's a stand out dud either.

Hiber-nation
26-07-2013, 07:09 AM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.

:agree:

Having said that, although I don't like criticising individual players, I feel that Paul's performances have been miles below the required standard. He was destroyed last night and culpable in the Scottish Cup Final. Might improve with a better manager but I have my doubts.

scoopyboy
26-07-2013, 07:12 AM
So every defender Hanlon has been paired against is *****? Aye ok.

I take your point Ross but tell me the outstanding ones?

Onion
26-07-2013, 07:20 AM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.

Of course he is but Petrie is untouchable, unaccountable and without shame. His position is secured by someone who has no interest in the club, other than looking at the balance sheet at the end of the year.

steviehibsleith
26-07-2013, 07:43 AM
Main attributes to be a Centre Half in SPFL

Dominant in the air - PH No
Tough committed tackler - PH No
Read the game stick to his man - PH No

He ball watches , is a natural midfielder who has failed to convert to a CH role.

SMAXXA
26-07-2013, 07:46 AM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.

Not sure I can agree Jim, what position has petrie been playing in our starting line up over these years. Too easy to blame him but its the players and manager that need to take a real good look at themselves.

As for Hanlon, I said after last season I will give him a clean slate this season and he may change my view that he isn't good enough, sadly it doesn't sound like that's the case so far. I do agree with Ross he has been somewhat of a common denominator and we need better IMO.

MichelleHibs
26-07-2013, 07:48 AM
I've seen little to no improvement in four years. Thankfull we had Sparky last year to watch.

Agreed but same could be said for all positions? Only improvement is Williams in goals. Sparky last year up front but we failed to her anyone decent to support him! Midfield is woeful too.... How many midfielders has fenlon signed n we still can't get it right!

My point last night was that Hanlon wasn't the only one out there that wasn't good enough!

Jim44
26-07-2013, 08:00 AM
Not sure I can agree Jim, what position has petrie been playing in our starting line up over these years. Too easy to blame him but its the players and manager that need to take a real good look at themselves.

As for Hanlon, I said after last season I will give him a clean slate this season and he may change my view that he isn't good enough, sadly it doesn't sound like that's the case so far. I do agree with Ross he has been somewhat of a common denominator and we need better IMO.

If a chief executive of a company regularly hires unsuccessful managers who regularly hire staff who are unsuccessful, badly organised and unmotivated, the guy at the top is ultimately responsible. I hear what you are saying and don't think for a second that Petrie will go but again I repeat that he is our common denominator.

SMAXXA
26-07-2013, 08:07 AM
If a chief executive of a company regularly hires unsuccessful managers who regularly hire staff who are unsuccessful, badly organised and unmotivated, the guy at the top is ultimately responsible. I hear what you are saying and don't think for a second that Petrie will go but again I repeat that he is our common denominator.

I take your point and you have made some fair comments. I just feel its to easy to blame him as it seems to always come up when we have a bad result when other things don't go our way. But taking your logic I can't argue with the common denominator comment.

southern hibby
26-07-2013, 09:15 AM
Please believe me when I say i'm not trying to stick up for Hanlon here, however in Malmo and last night untill McPake went off he was walking the game at left back. In Malmo he was probably the best I have seen him play over 90 minutes was outstanding and again last night till he went central defence nothing came over from the left. I have watched the pre-season games and last years cup final and to my opinion McGivern does not look comfortable at left back. Is it worth giving Hanlon a run in this position? I really do believe so because make no mistakes Malmo over the two legs proved they were a lot (in all departments) superior to hibs however Hanlon did look our most comfortable player until moving to central defence. GGTTH

Since90+2
26-07-2013, 09:23 AM
Please believe me when I say i'm not trying to stick up for Hanlon here, however in Malmo and last night untill McPake went off he was walking the game at left back. In Malmo he was probably the best I have seen him play over 90 minutes was outstanding and again last night till he went central defence nothing came over from the left. I have watched the pre-season games and last years cup final and to my opinion McGivern does not look comfortable at left back. Is it worth giving Hanlon a run in this position? I really do believe so because make no mistakes Malmo over the two legs proved they were a lot (in all departments) superior to hibs however Hanlon did look our most comfortable player until moving to central defence. GGTTH

I was their aswell and must have been watching a different game to you. He was not outstanding in Malmo.

OrdHibby
26-07-2013, 09:24 AM
paul hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.

utter bollocks

brog
26-07-2013, 09:37 AM
The main common denominator IMO is starting a thread late at night after a horrible display & looking for a scapegoat. It's ridiculous to pinpoint any one player after last night, Carles Puyol would have looked keek in that team. Personally I don't think PH is hard enough for a central defender but he's not our biggest problem.

StevesFamau5
26-07-2013, 10:09 AM
Paul Hanlon. Horrible defence for four years.

Horrible in? Horrible at? Horrible on? Help me to understand your criticism...

Brightside
26-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Horrible in? Horrible at? Horrible on? Help me to understand your criticism...

He made a great tackle last night (just pinched it off the strikers toe on edge of area), stayed on his feet, went forward 10 yards and played a lovely pass to Craig. At that point a guy behind me shouted "You should be going through these players Hanlon ya pussy" THAT is everything that is wrong with Scottish fitba and you hear it even on school parks "Slide him" Utter drivel.....

OrdHibby
26-07-2013, 10:31 AM
He made a great tackle last night (just pinched it off the strikers toe on edge of area), stayed on his feet, went forward 10 yards and played a lovely pass to Craig. At that point a guy behind me shouted "You should be going through these players Hanlon ya pussy" THAT is everything that is wrong with Scottish fitba and you hear it even on school parks "Slide him" Utter drivel.....

:aok:

Stevie Reid
26-07-2013, 11:38 AM
I think Mullen looked promising, and I would like him and McGivern as full backs, think they would have a lot to offer going forward in the SPL. Forster has impressed, and could deal with him and Hanlon being the partnership for a while, if necessary. Would really like an experienced CH to come in though.

I had written Hanlon off when Calderwood was here but felt he had had a renaissance under Fenlon. Can't argue with the fact that he has been a fixture in some terrible defences though.

Chuck Rhoades
26-07-2013, 12:53 PM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.

Can't argue with that.

southern hibby
26-07-2013, 03:08 PM
I was their aswell and must have been watching a different game to you. He was not outstanding in Malmo.

At no pont from what I can remember in Malmo did Malmo look like scoring from the left. Both goals were not his fault and he did a lot of work. As I said before I really am not protecting him (personally not bothered either way if he was to stay or go). However I do think with a few games under his belt at left back he could do a job for us there. Outstanding or not he has played better at left back than McGivern has since the cup final. GGTTH.

Bad Habits
26-07-2013, 03:16 PM
Foster was about to be freed and had good game aginst **** and got a years deal. He has no pace. So be interesting to see how he develops as a defender this season.
you must be kidding with the no pace, he was the only one who could get close to Rantie last night.

number 27
26-07-2013, 03:18 PM
I think Mullen looked promising, and I would like him and McGivern as full backs, think they would have a lot to offer going forward in the SPL. Forster has impressed, and could deal with him and Hanlon being the partnership for a while, if necessary. Would really like an experienced CH to come in though.

I had written Hanlon off when Calderwood was here but felt he had had a renaissance under Fenlon. Can't argue with the fact that he has been a fixture in some terrible defences though.

Seen a few people say that Mullen did ok. I thought he got absolutely destroyed:confused: it seemed impossible to be worse than Stevenson but defensively he was. He did seem to offer something going forward right enough but if he is to make it as a full back he might have to start tackling or marking his man or doing something to actually trouble the opposition forwards. Not saying he was the worst mind you.

Stevie Reid
26-07-2013, 03:23 PM
Seen a few people say that Mullen did ok. I thought he got absolutely destroyed:confused: it seemed impossible to be worse than Stevenson but defensively he was. He did seem to offer something going forward right enough but if he is to make it as a full back he might have to start tackling or marking his man or doing something to actually trouble the opposition forwards. Not saying he was the worst mind you.

I was purely meaning in terms of going forward, hard to credit any of our defenders last night given the scoreline. Thankfully FM will not be coming up against that kind of pace, quality and movement on a weekly basis in the SPL.

Could see Harris and Mullen linking up to good effect if we can recover quickly from last night's disaster.

truehibernian
26-07-2013, 03:34 PM
Paul was on the upward curve last season however what sets him and other defenders back in my opinion is the fact Hibs are not an attack minded side. Defending is an art, it requires supreme concentration and in defence of Paul, it can't be easy when the side is under so much severe pressure - that is how errors happen. A team needs to be balanced and defenders need a wee rest in periods of a game - if you play one up front, I'm sorry, but you're already in for a hard shift as a defender. You need to share the workload and you need to get that ball up the other end of the park quickly - that's where I agreed wholeheartedly with Mixu - you don't score goals by playing nice football on the edge of your own box.

If Hibs played with two full backs who took the game up the pitch, Hanlon will flourish alongside Jordon. If Hibs play with static full backs, and with players who are bloody left footed and never really played there before, then Paul will always look poor - because the defence will be flat footed, square and lie deep.

I was not a fan of Paul but he was growing on me - I think Hibs need to get the right players in for him to really look the player he can be. At the top end of the pitch. The one thing about him that won't go away, which I don't like in centre halves, is his nature - he is too nice, too reserved - I want my centre halves to be right ugly, squint nosed, hardy bar stewards of the Puyol variety :greengrin

The Falcon
26-07-2013, 03:35 PM
This thread's theme is 'common denominator'. The only real common denominator in our years of decline is Rod Petrie.
Was he in charge in the eighties?

SMAXXA
26-07-2013, 05:14 PM
Paul was on the upward curve last season however what sets him and other defenders back in my opinion is the fact Hibs are not an attack minded side. Defending is an art, it requires supreme concentration and in defence of Paul, it can't be easy when the side is under so much severe pressure - that is how errors happen. A team needs to be balanced and defenders need a wee rest in periods of a game - if you play one up front, I'm sorry, but you're already in for a hard shift as a defender. You need to share the workload and you need to get that ball up the other end of the park quickly - that's where I agreed wholeheartedly with Mixu - you don't score goals by playing nice football on the edge of your own box.

If Hibs played with two full backs who took the game up the pitch, Hanlon will flourish alongside Jordon. If Hibs play with static full backs, and with players who are bloody left footed and never really played there before, then Paul will always look poor - because the defence will be flat footed, square and lie deep.

I was not a fan of Paul but he was growing on me - I think Hibs need to get the right players in for him to really look the player he can be. At the top end of the pitch. The one thing about him that won't go away, which I don't like in centre halves, is his nature - he is too nice, too reserved - I want my centre halves to be right ugly, squint nosed, hardy bar stewards of the Puyol variety :greengrin

Give strikers loads of chances they will score and will get better at the ones they don't, give defenders plent practice at defending and they will defend more than they don't. Unfortunately where he is concerned he is found wanting time and time again which is a worrying pattern over the last 3 years. No excuses for me, Wotherspoon was a by product of this and Hanlon should be another IMO.

if we get rid will anyone be seriously thinking oww I wish we kept Paul Hanlon, I don't think this will be the case. I wanted t give him the benefit of the doubt but a few beers and a general reflection has resulted in this post, I may be less subtle tomorrow :greengrin:greengrin

rcarter1
26-07-2013, 05:22 PM
Despite the amount of goals its not the defence per se that's the problem. They ran right through the midfield. They attacked in numbers. Our players stopped and left it to the defence. We have a major coaching problem. Harris was obv told to hold his midfield position again a waste of a player. We have decent players in the wrong positions for every game.

Totally agree. We do have decent SPL standard players. The 'rubbish' ones we get rid of prove to be succesful at clubs like Ross County and St Johnstone. OTJ, Craig and Vine are already being written off by some in spite of being integral players for their previous more successful clubs.

Fergus52
26-07-2013, 05:23 PM
He's one of many problems we've had, but yes, he should not be a first choice defender for us. I've suggested a few times he could maybe do a job in midfield, but if Fenlon wont try him there how will we ever know?

Thank **** for that

truehibernian
26-07-2013, 05:40 PM
Give strikers loads of chances they will score and will get better at the ones they don't, give defenders plent practice at defending and they will defend more than they don't. Unfortunately where he is concerned he is found wanting time and time again which is a worrying pattern over the last 3 years. No excuses for me, Wotherspoon was a by product of this and Hanlon should be another IMO.

if we get rid will anyone be seriously thinking oww I wish we kept Paul Hanlon, I don't think this will be the case. I wanted t give him the benefit of the doubt but a few beers and a general reflection has resulted in this post, I may be less subtle tomorrow :greengrin:greengrin

Don't get me wrong mate, if you've ever read my posts on Paul over the years I have been quite scathing and have not seen what others have seen - however he looked like he was starting to show signs of being a footballer and a defender last season. I think it was Mixu that always stressed defending is an art - it is, and in no way am I saying Paul shouldn't train train and train hard - I totally agree with your assessment and comparison to strikers.

But it must be as frustrating for Paul having to almost constantly defend, as much as it was for Leigh last season being a lone man up top and having to make his own chances - that is why I rate Leigh so very highly. The lad worked his behind off last year and goodness knows how many he would have scored with a couple of wingers or a really good partner up top - but you need to play an attacking formation for that. Pat doesn't adopt that strategy.

How many times in a game do we see James or Paul stride confidently from defence and take the ball forward taking the team up the park ? In short they don't - both need time to trap, control, look up and get rid - and as such are closed down. If you have full backs who want to get forward, it encourages your back four to push up and become an attacking starting point and puts the opposition on the back foot. Hibs by the way they play in every position allow teams to get back, reform, mark up and track.

For the record, I think Paul is SPL standard and will not progress much further than that. But he will get my support all the time and I do feel that with a more offensive formation he plays to a higher standard and with more confidence.

3pm
26-07-2013, 11:40 PM
How anyone can criticise Hanlon at LB is beyond me. Eveyone can see he is a holding midfielder.

Delboy4
27-07-2013, 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by sesoim
He's one of many problems we've had, but yes, he should not be a first choice defender for us. I've suggested a few times he could maybe do a job in midfield, but if Fenlon wont try him there how will we ever know?

Thank **** for that

When Paul played juvenile football for Hutchie Vale he always played midfield against my son AND was a very good player!! So yes, he could play there easily.

calumb
27-07-2013, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by sesoim
He's one of many problems we've had, but yes, he should not be a first choice defender for us. I've suggested a few times he could maybe do a job in midfield, but if Fenlon wont try him there how will we ever know?

Thank **** for that

When Paul played juvenile football for Hutchie Vale he always played midfield against my son AND was a very good player!! So yes, he could play there easily.

I wonder are we the only set of supporters who want to try every failed defender in midfield? Booth, Kujabi and now Hanlon, do we not already have a whole load poor midfielders in team without adding anymore

Steve-O
27-07-2013, 03:55 AM
Not a dominating centre half. Agree he is not good enough and never will be.