Masons

[Twa Cairpets]

I recently had a bit of a run-in with a bloke and when recounting it was advised to "be careful, he's high up in the Masons".

I've always looked on the Masons as a bit of an anachronistic joke, and it isn't something that worries me, but the fact that their is still such an organisation that can engender these opinions piqued my interest. Are they a sinister and active organisation subverting the law and natural fairness for their members benefit? Are they a quasi-religious group with a charter to influence society, or are they just a group of dafties who never really grew up and like being in a men-only club?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I recently had a bit of a run-in with a bloke and when recounting it was advised to "be careful, he's high up in the Masons".

I've always looked on the Masons as a bit of an anachronistic joke, and it isn't something that worries me, but the fact that their is still such an organisation that can engender these opinions piqued my interest. Are they a sinister and active organisation subverting the law and natural fairness for their members benefit? Are they a quasi-religious group with a charter to influence society, or are they just a group of dafties who never really grew up and like being in a men-only club?

I have to say that most of the people I have met, that are into "the craft" are strange individuals. I wouldn't judge Freemasonary on the image they put across though.

Its been around for a long time, and I am prepared to accept that there may well be secrets of the world that they hold. I base this on the fact that there are things the ancients were able to do, that we have only just developed equipment and machinery to do ourselves.

Things like the pyramids, for example. I am not saying the Masons hold the secret of how they were built, only that there are unexplained things, and a secret organisation may be at the heart of the matter. It makes as much sense as theories of the paranormal, or extra terrestrial contributions.

[heretoday]

I recently had a bit of a run-in with a bloke and when recounting it was advised to "be careful, he's high up in the Masons".

I've always looked on the Masons as a bit of an anachronistic joke, and it isn't something that worries me, but the fact that their is still such an organisation that can engender these opinions piqued my interest. Are they a sinister and active organisation subverting the law and natural fairness for their members benefit? Are they a quasi-religious group with a charter to influence society, or are they just a group of dafties who never really grew up and like being in a men-only club?

He's probably a copper!

[sleeping giant]

As far as I can work out Freemassonary was started to give safe passage to knights templar who had been outlawed and were to be imprisoned and tortured until they confessed heresy. Pope clement the 6th ish was burning them at the stake as he wanted their wealth. Bit more to it than that , but that's the jist.
As for the Pyramids.....nah. The allegory about the unfinished temple is soloemons temple and that was finished.

[sleeping giant]

Never met a mason who wouldn't help you if he could.

[Twa Cairpets]

Never met a mason who wouldn't help you if he could.

May be missing this, but because they are masons or because they are people?

[sleeping giant]

They will go way out their way to help masonic brothers and their families but will still help non masons if they can. The theory is they meet a man travelling west , they give him food , shelter and some money , vouch for him and send him on to the next safe house (lodge)

[sleeping giant]

Also , whoever advised you was not a mason so would not be privy to , if any, sanctions. So he knows nothing but likes to think he does. They also fund various charities and scholarships etc.

[Scouse Hibee]

I recently had a bit of a run-in with a bloke and when recounting it was advised to "be careful, he's high up in the Masons".

I've always looked on the Masons as a bit of an anachronistic joke, and it isn't something that worries me, but the fact that their is still such an organisation that can engender these opinions piqued my interest. Are they a sinister and active organisation subverting the law and natural fairness for their members benefit? Are they a quasi-religious group with a charter to influence society, or are they just a group of dafties who never really grew up and like being in a men-only club?

:faf: Brilliant, I hope you responded appropriately

[Eternal Hibbie]

Many years ago when I was just a wee boy my dad was unable to work through illness for a very long time, he was a non-practising mason if you will and that had been the way of things for many years I'm told.

Anyway one day came a knock on the door, I remember opening it and a total stranger was standing there barely able to stand after carrying an enormous food hamper that he had lugged up three flights of stairs.

I remember the gratitude of my mum that day and if memory serves he also passed her an envelope.

To this day I'm still not sure what they stand for, but in my book whatever it is, it ain't bad.

[heretoday]

Many years ago when I was just a wee boy my dad was unable to work through illness for a very long time, he was a non-practising mason if you will and that had been the way of things for many years I'm told.

Anyway one day came a knock on the door, I remember opening it and a total stranger was standing there barely able to stand after carrying an enormous food hamper that he had lugged up three flights of stairs.

I remember the gratitude of my mum that day and if memory serves he also passed her an envelope.

To this day I'm still not sure what they stand for, but in my book whatever it is, it ain't bad.


Yeah but they're not all nice people unfortunately.

[sleeping giant]

Yeah but they're not all nice people unfortunately.
In what respect ? If you believe a Mason is behaving in a manner not befitting freemasonary , report him to the local lodge.

[Jack]

In what respect ? If you believe a Mason is behaving in a manner not befitting freemasonary , report him to the local lodge.

Good point but its all a big secret isn't it! ;)

I have thought about the Masons on and off for a few decades. Here are my thoughts based on the Masons I've met, including my former step-father, who was a prick for all sorts of reasons.

Some Masons are pricks.

I have been told, by the Masons, that you have to ask to join. This is based on the Masons who have made themselves known to you think you're a good guy and you think they're good guys, so good guys stick together.

The prick Mason I knew took an almighty huff when his son didn't roll up his trouser leg, never spoke to him for more than 6 years. Wasn't that happy when I wouldn't sign up either.

If they were all like him and a good few others I met no one would want to join this group of social misfits. They also tended to be, but not exclusively office bearers!

There were others who were really good guys and would do anything for you. They would have done whatever it was whether you were a Mason or not, they were that sort of person. But, of course, their Mason pals would say it was only because they were Masons - I thought that was a bit poor show as part of un unsolicited speech at a good guys funeral. That's rankled with me for years.

Then there's the piss heads who would try and join the Brownies if it had a cheap bar!

I have little doubt there has been abuse and misuse of powers in some quarters but that could be said of anywhere there is power, perceived or otherwise.

On the balance of the Masons I met I never joined.

Takes all sorts but while an organization has secrets, even if it is only secret handshakes, there will be an element of mistrust from those who are not members for whatever reasons. I don't care.

[.Sean.]

Can somebody give an overview of what they are and what they do!? I'm absolutely clueless on this. How are they related to the knights Templar?!

[Lucius Apuleius]

Can somebody give an overview of what they are and what they do!? I'm absolutely clueless on this. How are they related to the knights Templar?!

From what I have read here they are a bunch of drunken dicks who sometimes look after each other and sometimes look after other people. They also appear to do charity stuff and rule the world. I think the KTs used to rule the world until King Philip (of France) and Pope Clement decided that they wanted all their power and money and killed them all. Except some came to Scotland and became Masons :confused:

If you really want to know, walk into your local Masonic Lodge and ask. I don't think they will kill you.

[Haymaker]

It seems to be a boys club that help each other out where possible and raise money for charities.

[Just Alf]

Can somebody give an overview of what they are and what they do!? I'm absolutely clueless on this. How are they related to the knights Templar?!

LA probably has the right of it :D .... However did find this with a quick search

The Masonic Lodge is a club that was formed over 300 years ago. The members promised to be friends, and never let differences in politics, religion, and social status be an issue between them. This was very radical back in 1700. And many prominent men belonged, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Lord Charles Cornwallis.

What sets the Masonic Lodge apart from other clubs, is a secret ritual. The secret ritual started in the Cathedral building guilds in the early middle ages. Only a stone mason who knew the secret ritual was a full member of the guild (trade union). The ritual was so neat, they kept it for hundreds of years, and was adopted by the Masonic Lodge.

Mission Statement:
Brotherly love.
We value respect, freedom, kindness, tolerance, and our differences - religious, ethnic, cultural, social, generational, and educational - and strive for harmony in our individual lives, in our lodges, and in the global community.

Relief.
We take responsibility for the well-being of our brothers, our families, and the community as a whole. We provide relief through philanthropy, community involvement, and delivery of excellent care.

Truth.
We stay true to our personal code of conduct and ethics - honor, integrity, personal responsibility, and the continuous pursuit of knowledge.


As others have said it wouldn't surprise me if some people have taken advantage of their position in the past but with the scrutiny in the modern world I'd imagine that's old hat.

[sleeping giant]

The freemasons declared themselves public in 1717. They were in existence well before that.
The secrecy comes from when all KT's were faced with death and anyone helping them would lose his lands , wealth and possibly their head.

Their meetings therefore HAD to be secret.

During the reign of the Holy See it was heresey to discuss other political views.
The KT's went underground to protect their lives and their institution.

This is not exact history as there are no written history before they became public in 1717.
Read a few books that imply they organised the peoples revolt and the change of state church from catholic to protestant.

If interested I suggest you read " A Pilgrims Path" and "Born in Blood" both by John j Robinson. Very enlightening books even though he does tell us at the end of pilgrims path that he is going to join them.

Any manic library will let you look at their books. Most lodges are welcoming.

One stipulation....you must believe in a god or at least a superior being.
Religion is not allowed to be discussed at meetings.

[Eternal Hibbie]

It seems to be a boys club that help each other out where possible and raise money for charities.

If thats the case good on them.

Bit simplistic perhaps but I've known many over the years who were all good people in my opinion.

As an aside had always thought that being a mason might give you an advantage careerwise.

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[Haymaker]

If thats the case good on them.

Bit simplistic perhaps but I've known many over the years who were all good people in my opinion.

As an aside had always thought that being a mason might give you an advantage careerwise.

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That is pretty much how my friends dad, a lodge head or whatever they are called - grand something? - Described it to me.

[Lucius Apuleius]

If thats the case good on them.

Bit simplistic perhaps but I've known many over the years who were all good people in my opinion.

As an aside had always thought that being a mason might give you an advantage careerwise.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

I think in olden days there may have been that aspect but purely from the aspect that if a man was a Freemason he would have an impeccable reputation. I don't believe it is so now. In fact it is contrary to what I believe everything Freemasonry stands for. A system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by signs and symbols.

[Eternal Hibbie]

I think in olden days there may have been that aspect but purely from the aspect that if a man was a Freemason he would have an impeccable reputation. I don't believe it is so now. In fact it is contrary to what I believe everything Freemasonry stands for. A system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by signs and symbols.

Curious as to whether masonic lodges continue to flourish or do they struggle for new members today, growing up as a boy in Leith I was always aware of their presence.

They have been successful in attracting new membership for centuries of course but as the world moves on apace is this still the case, does their meaning and purpose transcend this ?

[Lucius Apuleius]

Curious as to whether masonic lodges continue to flourish or do they struggle for new members today, growing up as a boy in Leith I was always aware of their presence.

They have been successful in attracting new membership for centuries of course but as the world moves on apace is this still the case, does their meaning and purpose transcend this ?

Currently, as with most institutions I believe, some are struggling, some are thriving. I would guess, in my opinion, yes that their meaning and purpose does transcend a lot of things. Obviously one does not need to be a mason to have the same beliefs.

[Scouse Hibee]

Curious as to whether masonic lodges continue to flourish or do they struggle for new members today, growing up as a boy in Leith I was always aware of their presence.

They have been successful in attracting new membership for centuries of course but as the world moves on apace is this still the case, does their meaning and purpose transcend this ?

My lodg...........................errr I think they do okay :wink:

[Eternal Hibbie]

My lodg...........................errr I think they do okay :wink:

Nice one, thanks. :)

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[heidtheba]

Just to add to this...
All this is off the top of my head (so am more than willing to be told I am wrong)...
You can be any religion and a Mason but you must believe in God, I'm sure there is some part of the swearing in ceremony (or whatever it is called) where you have to make a declaration which, I've been told, doesn't sit well with Roman Catholics and hence they don't join...but they are allowed to from the Mason side of things.
They were also the group which was the most heavily affected in terms of percentage of 'followers/members' who were killed by the Nazis as part of the Holocaust. Although a very small group in terms of overall numbers killed, more masons were killed as a percentage of the total group than even Jews in Europe.
Interested to hear if these are accurate or not (but the Holocaust one is true I'm pretty certain).

[Haymaker]

I was told that you must admit you believe there is a "higher power".

[Hibrandenburg]

I was told that you must admit you believe there is a "higher power".

Does Pat Stanton count?

[heretoday]

I was told that you must admit you believe there is a "higher power".

Nah that's the AA.....or the RAC - I forget which.

[Mixu62]

The freemasons declared themselves public in 1717. They were in existence well before that.
The secrecy comes from when all KT's were faced with death and anyone helping them would lose his lands , wealth and possibly their head.

Their meetings therefore HAD to be secret.

During the reign of the Holy See it was heresey to discuss other political views.
The KT's went underground to protect their lives and their institution.

This is not exact history as there are no written history before they became public in 1717.
Read a few books that imply they organised the peoples revolt and the change of state church from catholic to protestant.

If interested I suggest you read " A Pilgrims Path" and "Born in Blood" both by John j Robinson. Very enlightening books even though he does tell us at the end of pilgrims path that he is going to join them.

Any manic library will let you look at their books. Most lodges are welcoming.

One stipulation....you must believe in a god or at least a superior being.
Religion is not allowed to be discussed at meetings.


I know it's a typo but "manic library" made me laugh!
Thanks tho, very informative post. Not wishing to turn this into one of "those" debates, but I assume their opposition to the church of Rome and papal power is the reason celtc fans are so paranoid about them? (And lets be honest, I've heard referees referred to as Masonic b***ards at ER in tha past too.)

[HibeeB]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn299/eckmac_photo/masonic.jpg

[Haymaker]

Does Pat Stanton count?

I know of someone who believes himself to a higher power/supreme being.

We all know Pat Stanton,is

[Lucius Apuleius]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn299/eckmac_photo/masonic.jpg


<<<<<<<----------

[lapsedhibee]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn299/eckmac_photo/masonic.jpg

10712

[Lucius Apuleius]

10712

He is giving him a man hug!

[steakbake]

He is giving him a man hug!

The hands...

[Lucius Apuleius]

The hands...

Wrong place if the rest of the picture is indicative:wink:

[steakbake]

Wrong place if the rest of the picture is indicative:wink:

:hmmm:

I thought there was something wrong with it as I'm sure Ally has 6 fingers.

[sleeping giant]

I know it's a typo but "manic library" made me laugh!
Thanks tho, very informative post. Not wishing to turn this into one of "those" debates, but I assume their opposition to the church of Rome and papal power is the reason celtc fans are so paranoid about them? (And lets be honest, I've heard referees referred to as Masonic b***ards at ER in tha past too.)
I'm assuming their alleged opposition to the papal power
Lies with the fact that the papacy took away their path to god (if indeed they were originally knights templar) . There was also a,papal bull issued (got it somewhere) when it states Freemassonary is worshipping the devil as they don't insist in belief in Jesus Christ. They just insist on belief of a supreme being.

[heidtheba]

I'm assuming their alleged opposition to the papal power
Lies with the fact that the papacy took away their path to god (if indeed they were originally knights templar) . There was also a,papal bull issued (got it somewhere) when it states Freemassonary is worshipping the devil as they don't insist in belief in Jesus Christ. They just insist on belief of a supreme being.

See my understanding was that they weren't anti-catholic (officially as an organisation), rather than catholic's didn't allow themselves to join due to something in the initiation ceremony which clashed with their (catholic) beliefs.

[sleeping giant]

See my understanding was that they weren't anti-catholic (officially as an organisation), rather than catholic's didn't allow themselves to join due to something in the initiation ceremony which clashed with their (catholic) beliefs.

Not sure about anything in the ceremony that upsets Catholics.
They will accept all faiths. It was the papacy that had a problem with that and caused problems because of it.

[Twa Cairpets]

Sorry I've not responded to any of the very interesting comments.

I think the main thing missing is the "is it fair"? Charity is good, support for members in times of stress is good, and they are all internal things that any club or society would embrace. The issue is why is fair to be preferred by simply being a mason, if indeed this is the case in employment or law, and why (as in my initial circumstance in the OP) would people feel that some kind of deference or watchfullness be ascribed to someone who is in a senior position in the Lodge. (By the way, I would certainly not describe the guy in question as being of the highest moral character by any stretch).

[Lucius Apuleius]

Sorry I've not responded to any of the very interesting comments.

I think the main thing missing is the "is it fair"? Charity is good, support for members in times of stress is good, and they are all internal things that any club or society would embrace. The issue is why is fair to be preferred by simply being a mason, if indeed this is the case in employment or law, and why (as in my initial circumstance in the OP) would people feel that some kind of deference or watchfullness be ascribed to someone who is in a senior position in the Lodge. (By the way, I would certainly not describe the guy in question as being of the highest moral character by any stretch).

It would not be fair and I have never heard of anyone being preferred for anything solely because he is a Mason. Not sure what "high up in the Masons" means to be honest. However it would make no difference if he was high up (whatever that is) or not, there is no way he would be a danger because of that. As to his moral character, I don't think it can be denied that in any institution there are supposed bad guys.

[--------]

Not sure about anything in the ceremony that upsets Catholics.
They will accept all faiths. It was the papacy that had a problem with that and caused problems because of it.


They didn't seem to have any problems with Lodge P2 .... :wink:

:stirrer:

[Lucius Apuleius]

They didn't seem to have any problems with Lodge P2 .... :wink:

:stirrer:

Covert Lodge operating illegally under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Italy IIRC. Bad bad bad people!!! :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

I presume that if you go for a job and you have the same qualifications and experience as the next guy, but the next guy is a mason he will get the job if the boss is also a mason. I presume.

I would also imagine that if there are two shops in a street selling the same stuff at the same price the masons will go to the one owned by a mason.

The problem comes when you get to stuff like planning permission etc. Would a funny handshake overcome difficulties in that area or other areas of public life where under normal circumstances the answer would be no?

Thats the question which intrigues us non Mason's ........ are they on the level?

[sleeping giant]

I presume that if you go for a job and you have the same qualifications and experience as the next guy, but the next guy is a mason he will get the job if the boss is also a mason. I presume.

I would also imagine that if there are two shops in a street selling the same stuff at the same price the masons will go to the one owned by a mason.

The problem comes when you get to stuff like planning permission etc. Would a funny handshake overcome difficulties in that area or other areas of public life where under normal circumstances the answer would be no?

Thats the question which intrigues us non Mason's ........ are they on the level?

Re your second paragraph .....this is where it escalated. If you were accepted by the guilds then you would get most of the business.

I believe they are on the level.

[Hibbyradge]

Not sure about anything in the ceremony that upsets Catholics.
They will accept all faiths. It was the papacy that had a problem with that and caused problems because of it.

http://www.sanctepater.com/2012/03/why-catholics-cant-be-masons.html

[Just Alf]

http://www.sanctepater.com/2012/03/why-catholics-cant-be-masons.html

Just read this.... Surprisingly it told me more about The Catholic faiths perception on how others should worship than the masons....

[SHODAN]

According to our Gordon Smith's biography, he was a mason.

[lapsedhibee]

http://www.sanctepater.com/2012/03/why-catholics-cant-be-masons.html

Very good read, despite the transcriber's inability throughout to spell deity. The article was like a far shorter, much more articulate version of Wee Shaun Lawson's "Why I have decided to renounce weneverpaidforourpoppies.co.uk" or his later, similar "Why I have decided to renounce hibs.net".

[Lucius Apuleius]

According to our Gordon Smith's biography, he was a mason.

<---- As were many others.

[1two]

I know a few masons

All are jambos or rangers fans
Most are complete *****
A couple or ok

I've never been asked to nor wish to join their secret club

[Scouse Hibee]

I know a few masons

All are jambos or rangers fans
Most are complete *****
A couple or ok

I've never been asked to nor wish to join their secret club


It's not a secret club!

[Allant1981]

It's not a secret club!

Its a club with secrets!

[Lucius Apuleius]

I know a few masons

All are jambos or rangers fans
Most are complete *****
A couple or ok

I've never been asked to nor wish to join their secret club

I know quite a few as well. Most are Falkirk, Stirling Albion and Hibs fans.:wink:

[Scouse Hibee]

Its a club with secrets!


It's not a club either!

[Hiber-nation]

To me its all seems a bit weird although a couple of Masons I know/knew were 2 of the soundest blokes I've ever met without a hint of weirdness.

I suppose the weirdest was a celtc supporting practising Catholic....I thought there would have been a clash of beliefs but not according to him.

[Lucius Apuleius]

To me its all seems a bit weird although a couple of Masons I know/knew were 2 of the soundest blokes I've ever met without a hint of weirdness.

I suppose the weirdest was a celtc supporting practising Catholic....I thought there would have been a clash of beliefs but not according to him.

And neither there is.

[Just Alf]

To me its all seems a bit weird although a couple of Masons I know/knew were 2 of the soundest blokes I've ever met without a hint of weirdness.

I suppose the weirdest was a celtc supporting practising Catholic....I thought there would have been a clash of beliefs but not according to him.

Re your Celtic "mate"... Hibbyradge's link above explains it quite well.

Basically from the masons point of view you need to believe in "something" and allow others to have their own beliefs, and from the Catholic Church's point of view if you don't follow their faith then you're in the wrong....at least that's what the people quoted in the link believe. Sounds like your mate was a strong enough believer in his own faith that he felt he could safely interact closely with people of other faiths!

[Allant1981]

It's not a club either!

Sorry a brotherhood with secrets

[Hiber-nation]

Re your Celtic "mate"... Hibbyradge's link above explains it quite well.

Basically from the masons point of view you need to believe in "something" and allow others to have their own beliefs, and from the Catholic Church's point of view if you don't follow their faith then you're in the wrong....at least that's what the people quoted in the link believe. Sounds like your mate was a strong enough believer in his own faith that he felt he could safely interact closely with people of other faiths!

Nah, he was just a radge :wink:

[Just Alf]

Nah, he was just a radge :wink:

:D