Papiss Cisse

[brian6-2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23347131

Pulled out of Newcastles tour. Think this lad needs to take a wee step back, he's being a wee bit extreme.......

Newcastle should stop paying him.

[Scouse Hibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23347131

Pulled out of Newcastles tour. Think this lad needs to take a wee step back, he's being a wee bit extreme.......

Newcastle should stop paying him.


Sticking to what he believes, good on him. Or trying to engineer a move away?

[Sylar]

Sticking to what he believes, good on him. Or trying to engineer a move away?

He wore a Virgin Money Newcastle top last season and he plays (and earns a ****-load of money as a result) in the Barclays Premier League. Selective application of religious principles just makes him look like a knob.

[Treadstone]

Sticking to what he believes, good on him. Or trying to engineer a move away?

Latter for me. Why now ? Taking it he doesn't earn interest on his savings ?

[VickMackie]

He wore a Virgin Money Newcastle top last season and he plays (and earns a ****-load of money as a result) in the Barclays Premier League. Selective application of religious principles just makes him look like a knob.

Exaxtly.

His club and pay comes from wonga anyway so is hypocritical.

[grunt]

From Twitter

@BBCSporf: BREAKING: Papiss Cisse fined after refusing to wear club sponsor Wonga. Initial fine of £500, rising to £440,000 if not paid by the weekend.

[RyeSloan]

He wore a Virgin Money Newcastle top last season and he plays (and earns a ****-load of money as a result) in the Barclays Premier League. Selective application of religious principles just makes him look like a knob.

Agreed.

Simply trying to get a move I think.

[magpie1892]

He wore a Virgin Money Newcastle top last season and he plays (and earns a ****-load of money as a result) in the Barclays Premier League. Selective application of religious principles just makes him look like a knob.

Virgin Money, well known for their 6,700%+ APR loans in a 'commercially sensitive' part of England.

You're talking bollocks and, worse, bollocks that you know nothing about.

[Sylar]

Virgin Money, well known for their 6,700%+ APR loans in a 'commercially sensitive' part of England.

You're talking bollocks and, worse, bollocks that you know nothing about.

It's bugger all to do with the rate of interest but based on the fact that Wonga represent a company which make profit from interest based loans, just like Virgin Money and just like Barclays, prohibited under Sharia law.

Which aspect of the above is 'bollocks'?

[Sir David Gray]

Won't be surprised to see more of this in the future.

I think I remember reading that either he or another Muslim player with another team had come to an agreement with their club that they wouldn't take part in any promotional stuff for the sponsors etc, which I can understand.

However to start dictating to your employer that you will not wear a shirt bearing the logo of the club sponsor is not on in my opinion and I would have thought that something along those lines would have been included in his contract of employment.

I'm with Newcastle on this one.

[Sylar]

Won't be surprised to see more of this in the future.

I think I remember reading that either he or another Muslim player with another team had come to an agreement with their club that they wouldn't take part in any promotional stuff for the sponsors etc, which I can understand.

However to start dictating to your employer that you will not wear a shirt bearing the logo of the club sponsor is not on in my opinion and I would have thought that something along those lines would have been included in his contract of employment.

I'm with Newcastle on this one.

Freddie Kanoute at Sevilla (I think?) who refused to wear the 888.com logo initially. He eventually did wear it in the end after discussions with the club but refused to do any promotional work.

I thought I had read that Cisse was seeking to talk about this with Newcastle but it either mustn't have happened or Newcastle weren't interested in entertaining him? Utterly no idea on that front.

[magpie1892]

It's bugger all to do with the rate of interest but based on the fact that Wonga represent a company which make profit from interest based loans, just like Virgin Money and just like Barclays, prohibited under Sharia law.

Which aspect of the above is 'bollocks'?

I've been working with Shari'a banking for seven years - (in the UAE, Qatar and Oman) for (among others, QIB, QFIB, Barclays Shari'a, Lloyds Shari'a, etc.) so I've got a decent grasp on the subject. The paradox is that for your short post, there's so much wrong with it. I've neither the time nor the inclination to point out the minutae of the numerous errors but the main aspect, which will become apparent in the next 10 days or so, is that there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

Secondly, ursury, which is haram under Shari'a, has a certain amount of flexibility without (and even within - but you need to make like a mouse) non-Muslim countries. QIB (http://www.qib.com.qa/en/index.aspx), for example, offer loans, mortages, credit cards and overdrafts and they don't do it for the good of their health; but said flexibility doesn't stretch to 6,700%+ APR.

Thirdly, and I hope this has just slipped your mind, it's Ramadan for the next three weeks and this obviously makes things extra sensitive. FFS, the Asian that runs my corner shop wanted me to fast and he knows I'm Christian.

Perhaps he wanted me to fast because I'm a fat ******* but you're over simplifying the situation and not in possession of the full facts.

[magpie1892]

Freddie Kanoute at Sevilla (I think?) who refused to wear the 888.com logo initially. He eventually did wear it in the end after discussions with the club but refused to do any promotional work.

I thought I had read that Cisse was seeking to talk about this with Newcastle but it either mustn't have happened or Newcastle weren't interested in entertaining him? Utterly no idea on that front.

FK got a non-888 shirt for half a season but then agreed to wear the regular one on the proviso that he would not take part in any promo activity for the sponsor, and did not.

[magpie1892]

However to start dictating to your employer that you will not wear a shirt bearing the logo of the club sponsor is not on in my opinion and I would have thought that something along those lines would have been included in his contract of employment.



PFA are backing Cisse and, although I am no fan of islam, I'm 100% behind Cisse. The mood on Tyneside is that NUFC have made yet another major rick in having such a nauseating shirt sponsor and a good number of fans are backing Cisse, even those with views on islam that would prevent gainful employ at the BBC or the Guardian.

I've arranged for my new home shirt (mid August) to have 'wonga' starred out in black vinyl asterisks from that shop on Rose Street.

[Sylar]

I've been working with Shari'a banking for seven years - (in the UAE, Qatar and Oman) for (among others, QIB, QFIB, Barclays Shari'a, Lloyds Shari'a, etc.) so I've got a decent grasp on the subject. The paradox is that for such a short post, there's so much wrong with it. I've neither the time nor the inclination to point out the errors but the main aspect, which will become apparent in the next 10 days or so, is that there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

Secondly, ursury, which is haram under Shari'a, has a certain amount of flexibility without (and even within - but you need to make like a mouse) non-Muslim countries (and also their affiliates in London, Lebanon, Malaysia, etc). QIB (http://www.qib.com.qa/en/index.aspx) QIB offer loans, mortages, credit cards and overdrafts and they don't do it for the good of their health, but said flexibility doesn't stretch to 6,700%+ APR.

Thirdly, and I hope this has just slipped your mind, it's Ramadan for the next three weeks and this obviously makes things extra sensitive. FFS, the Asian that runs my corner shop wanted me to fast and he knows I'm Christian.

Perhaps he wanted me to fast because I'm a fat ******* but you're over simplifying the situation and not in possession of the full facts.

I'm willing to concede I'm no expert in Islamic finance but none of the 4 Muslims in my lab today (all devout Muslims from both the Middle East and Nigeria and all avid football fans) bothered to correct me when I asked the question. My understanding of it was based on the Islamic principle of riba, which having double checked, prohibits the collection and payment of interest (which is Cisse's objection - **** all to do with the exorbitant rates). Whilst I'm undoubtedly aware there are hidden nuances and details within this, to the layman who isn't appropriate qualified in Sharia finance, it's easy to see where misconception arises.

And no, the fact that it's Ramadan didn't slip my mind (as above, I work with many Muslims) but that's got absolutely nothing to do with this.

[hibsbollah]

Its all gone a bit 'merchant of venice' on Tyneside.

[magpie1892]

I'm willing to concede I'm no expert in Islamic finance but none of the 4 Muslims in my lab today (all devout Muslims from both the Middle East and Nigeria and all avid football fans) bothered to correct me when I asked the question. My understanding of it was based on the Islamic principle of riba, which having double checked, prohibits the collection and payment of interest (which is Cisse's objection - **** all to do with the exorbitant rates). Whilst I'm undoubtedly aware there are hidden nuances and details within this, to the layman who isn't appropriate qualified in Sharia finance, it's easy to see where misconception arises.

And no, the fact that it's Ramadan didn't slip my mind (as above, I work with many Muslims) but that's got absolutely nothing to do with this.

Horses for courses. It's not the first time (Kanoute for one). If you can find a similar organisation to Wonga having sponsored a team from a predominantly Islamic country then I'd be - genuinely - curious to learn of it.

There's several muslims (Hatem Ben Arfa) for one and even Taouil at the yams who have had no problem with Wonga.

As you concede, there's other forces at work here anyhow. Give it a week, maybe a little more, and we will be nearer an answer. Religion is, however, part of the issue here.

Again, Cisse's (stated) objection is not the usury - just the level of the same.

My issue, and why I am backing Cisse, is that Bolton were offered a similar shirt sponsor for the upcoming season, put it to their fans via a vote, and got a resounding '**** off'. NUFC fans? We got no say and, for a club owned by a retailer, that's a poor move on Ashley's part. Merchandise sales will be down (significantly, if what I hear and read are correct) and we're obviously not going to win anything so it's getting to the point that he's doing things like this (Joe Kinnear, etc.) on purpose.

One of the NUFC sites is setting up the sale of patches to cover up the sponsor's name, and that's unusual.

[Pretty Boy]

Surely the simple solution for all parties is to allow Cisse to wear an unbranded shirt.

Newcastle look good for compromising with their player, Wonga look good for agreeing to a compromise and Cisse looks good for sticking to his principles.

[Allant1981]

Surely the simple solution for all parties is to allow Cisse to wear an unbranded shirt.

Newcastle look good for compromising with their player, Wonga look good for agreeing to a compromise and Cisse looks good for sticking to his principles.

According to the reporter on talk sport yesterday they had offered that to him and he said no, seems a bit strange that he wouldnt agree to that if thats what his problem was, from what i could hear(wee lad was talking at the same time) the guy said that the player is trying to get a move away from the club

[Sylar]

Horses for courses. It's not the first time (Kanoute for one). If you can find a similar organisation to Wonga having sponsored a team from a predominantly Islamic country then I'd be - genuinely - curious to learn of it.

There's several muslims (Hatem Ben Arfa) for one and even Taouil at the yams who have had no problem with Wonga.

As you concede, there's other forces at work here anyhow. Give it a week, maybe a little more, and we will be nearer an answer. Religion is, however, part of the issue here.

Again, Cisse's (stated) objection is not the usury - just the level of the same.

My issue, and why I am backing Cisse, is that Bolton were offered a similar shirt sponsor for the upcoming season, put it to their fans via a vote, and got a resounding '**** off'. NUFC fans? We got no say and, for a club owned by a retailer, that's a poor move on Ashley's part. Merchandise sales will be down (significantly, if what I hear and read are correct) and we're obviously not going to win anything so it's getting to the point that he's doing things like this (Joe Kinnear, etc.) on purpose.

One of the NUFC sites is setting up the sale of patches to cover up the sponsor's name, and that's unusual.

I don't think Cisse has publicly stated whether it's the concept of usury or more generally riba which is his reasoning - all we've heard is that it's against his religious principles. I guess a selective interpretation of the Qur'an would allow him to justify his stance here if it is indeed usury, fair enough (and genuine thank you for elucidating that). Not sure why one would follow one but not the other mind you as surely interest obtained from loans is enough of a prohibition?

I don't disagree with the reception towards Wonga as a sponsor and I understand people with principles not wanting to display their name on their shirt etc. Yes, we had a laugh at our Gorgie chums' expense but Wonga are a vile institution and I understand anyone out there not wanting to wear their brand.

As pointed out above, assuming he manages to negotiate a way to wear a blank shirt or a charity shirt, I presume he'll be taking a drop in salary or donating the percentage of his earnings which come from the Wonga deal to charity

[Beefster]

Cisse has offered to wear a blank shirt or one with a charity logo on it. Would he do that if he was just agitating for a move?

We slaughter footballers for being unprincipled gits and then criticise them for actually having some principles.

[Peevemor]

If it's good enough for Johan Cruyff ...


"I recently saw a re-run of the 1974 World Cup final between Holland and West Germany and it brought back to me a question I had then but was never answered. Both teams were kitted out by Adidas (they of the three stripes) but Johan Cruyff's shirt had only two stripes on the sleeve. Any idea how come? And is this trivia or wot?!?" asks Hugh McGinley
Hugh, your question is concerned with trivia of the highest order. Which is exactly the reason we've chosen to answer it.
The Dutch FA had a deal with Adidas to supply their kit, and your Johnny Reps and Rob Rensenbrinks of this world were only too happy to wear the stripy orange shirts during the 1974 World Cup in Germany.
Cruyff, of course, had other ideas. He had an exclusive personal deal with Adidas's rivals Puma, who supplied him with their classic Puma King boots. Because of this, he was unwilling to sport the three trademark stripes of Adidas and insisted on a two-striped version instead. As you would expect, he got exactly what he wanted.
Although Cruyff wasn't around to cause the German kit giants bother when Holland embarked on their 1978 World Cup campaign, his rebellious spirit lived on. The van de Kerkhof twins, Rene and Willy, insisted on being issued with Cruyff-style two-striped shirts else they were off. But did the Dutch FA give in to this blatant show of player power?
Of course they did.


from http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2001/may/30/theknowledge.sport

[hibsbollah]

Cisse has offered to wear a blank shirt or one with a charity logo on it. Would he do that if he was just agitating for a move?

We slaughter footballers for being unprincipled gits and then criticise them for actually having some principles.

:agree:
And it shouldnt be the preserve of the religious, either. It would be good to see a player take a stand against companies like wonga from a secular, moral point of view. They have plenty of power to influence popular opinion.

[Future17]

Not specifically related to Cisse, but what is people's problem with Wonga as a company compared to, say:

RBS?
McEwan Fraser?
Any alcohol manufacturer?

I don't really see what the big fuss is.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not specifically related to Cisse, but what is people's problem with Wonga as a company compared to, say:

RBS?
McEwan Fraser?
Any alcohol manufacturer?

I don't really see what the big fuss is.

Wonga make their money from people who have limited access to loans at sensible rates. They exploit that marginalised group of society, who often have no other alternative.

[Beefster]

Not specifically related to Cisse, but what is people's problem with Wonga as a company compared to, say:

RBS?
McEwan Fraser?
Any alcohol manufacturer?

I don't really see what the big fuss is.

I think the "We'll offer you 60% of your house's value" part of McEwan Fraser prey on desperate people (and I wasn't particularly happy when they sponsored Hibs) but Wonga are way worse than that. Wonga (and others) loan money to folk who have no other lending options (other than illegal loan sharks) and then often get them to take further loans out to cover the previous loan. They are bawbags of the highest order.

RBS and alcohol manufacturers aren't even a sensible comparison, IMHO.

[Geo_1875]

Not specifically related to Cisse, but what is people's problem with Wonga as a company compared to, say:

RBS?
McEwan Fraser?
Any alcohol manufacturer?

I don't really see what the big fuss is.

Wonga have really annoying tv adverts.

[(((Fergus)))]

Wonga make their money from people who have limited access to loans at sensible rates. They exploit that marginalised group of society, who often have no other alternative.

Sounds like you're saying Wonga are the only option. If that were true, shouldn't Wonga be applauded for giving these people an option they otherwise wouldn't have? And if Wonga are charging too much interest relative to their risk, then that leaves a margin for someone to come in and undercut them. Is it Wonga's fault if people want to use their services? Should we outlaw firms like Wonga and force people to accept austerity?

[CropleyWasGod]

Sounds like you're saying Wonga are the only option. If that were true, shouldn't Wonga be applauded for giving these people an option they otherwise wouldn't have? And if Wonga are charging too much interest relative to their risk, then that leaves a margin for someone to come in and undercut them. Is it Wonga's fault if people want to use their services? Should we outlaw firms like Wonga and force people to accept austerity?

I think we should, but it's not about forcing people to accept austerity; indeed, payday loans often force people into worse financial situations than they might have by not taking out the loan in the first place. However, living off what we earn is an art that has disappeared from society to a great extent.

It's about finding credible alternatives, such as credit unions. It's also about educating the public to resist the power of the ad-man and easy credit. It's also about re-finding the type of banking culture we had a generation ago, where responsible lending was matched by responsible spending. That is a societal change that may take a generation to work through, but worth the effort IMO.

[(((Fergus)))]

I think we should, but it's not about forcing people to accept austerity; indeed, payday loans often force people into worse financial situations than they might have by not taking out the loan in the first place. However, living off what we earn is an art that has disappeared from society to a great extent.

It's about finding credible alternatives, such as credit unions. It's also about educating the public to resist the power of the ad-man and easy credit. It's also about re-finding the type of banking culture we had a generation ago, where responsible lending was matched by responsible spending. That is a societal change that may take a generation to work through, but worth the effort IMO.


Interesting. I see that close to a million people save with credit unions in the UK. What is stopping people going from Wonga to a credit union? Scale of demand? Awareness?

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting. I see that close to a million people save with credit unions in the UK. What is stopping people going from Wonga to a credit union? Scale of demand? Awareness?

Probably the latter, since credit unions don't have the advertising budgets that the likes of Wonga do.

The other factor will be that they don't have access to the amount of funds that Wonga do.

[sesoim]

Cisse has offered to wear a blank shirt or one with a charity logo on it. Would he do that if he was just agitating for a move?

We slaughter footballers for being unprincipled gits and then criticise them for actually having some principles.


Principles? This is a guy who is refusing to play because his club's sponsor goes against his religion. Meanwhile, in real life, he sleeps around with Miss Newcastles and I would imagine freely enjoys all the fruits of a huge wage. He is an absolute hypocrite. Like a lot of people who claim to be of certain faiths, he picks and chooses what bits suit him.

I just hope the move/wage rise he is obviously looking for can help finance his "devout" lifestyle.

[hibsbollah]

Cisse has a lot of support on Tyneside, fans seem to be fairly split on the issue. (Surprisingly so for a fanbase who normally back their club to the hilt). I think wonga's predatory lending, especially in poor areas, angered a lot of local fans.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cisse has a lot of support on Tyneside, fans seem to be fairly split on the issue. (Surprisingly so for a fanbase who normally back their club to the hilt). I think wonga's predatory lending, especially in poor areas, angered a lot of local fans.

If he had gone along that route as justification for his actions, he might have got a lot more sympathy.

That said, I'm not one to believe everything I read in the papers. If this has been mis-reported, and it's not about religious principles, he gets my vote.

[Beefster]

Principles? This is a guy who is refusing to play because his club's sponsor goes against his religion. Meanwhile, in real life, he sleeps around with Miss Newcastles and I would imagine freely enjoys all the fruits of a huge wage. He is an absolute hypocrite. Like a lot of people who claim to be of certain faiths, he picks and chooses what bits suit him.

I just hope the move/wage rise he is obviously looking for can help finance his "devout" lifestyle.

How do you know he 'sleeps around'?

His girlfriend won Miss Newcastle. Is it subsequently morally wrong to date her because of that?

I bet you know as much about he lives his life and how devout (or otherwise) he is as I do (i.e. absolutely hee-haw).

AFAIK, it's not against any religion to make money either. If it was, STF would be ****ed.

[Pete]

Cisse has a lot of support on Tyneside, fans seem to be fairly split on the issue. (Surprisingly so for a fanbase who normally back their club to the hilt). I think wonga's predatory lending, especially in poor areas, angered a lot of local fans.

I'm not sure this is the case any more. They would probably take a more "patriotic" stance if a certain Mr. Ashley wasn't in charge.

Rightly or wrongly, a lot of fans can't wait to see the back of the him and will use anything as a stick to beat him, and therefore the club, with.

Lets be honest, if this had happened ten years ago there would have been a taxi booked and paid for by the supporters for this guy...destination anywhere.




:taxi:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Expecting Rain]

Arsenal have been chasing a lot of strikers most of whom are ridicuously priced, i`d like to see him at the Emirates. As for his views on Wonga good luck to him.

[brian6-2]

here is righteous muslim of the year papiss cisse in a casino.

clearly wants a move, should just be a man and say that instead of mucking people around.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2374711/Pictured-casino--40-000-week-Muslim-footballer-refuses-play-Newcastle-shirt-sponsor-payday-loan-firm-Wonga-compromises-religious-beliefs.html

[steakbake]

His issue is with punitive interest paid on loans and his beef is with a company who make their money doing that.

[Sylar]

His issue is with punitive interest paid on loans and his beef is with a company who make their money doing that.

Exactly correct though I still believe that it isn't driven by any religious basis.

Still awaiting the revelations which will confirm to the contrary though.

[Pretty Boy]

Is this not just a classic case of someone using religion when it suits them.

Cisse strolls into a casino and gambles ignoring his religous teaching but won't wear a shirt carrying a loan company sponsor because it's forbidden by his religion. Seems to me it's no different from right wing American Christians who oppose abortion because 'thou shalt not kill' but support the death penalty for criminals.

If it was a purely moral stance then good on him but seems to me it's a bit of an easy excuse to try and force a move.

[(((Fergus)))]

Probably the latter, since credit unions don't have the advertising budgets that the likes of Wonga do.

The other factor will be that they don't have access to the amount of funds that Wonga do.

potentially some good news on that score http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23433955

[--------]

potentially some good news on that score http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23433955


That's the sort of practical help the church should be offering people. :agree:

[Future17]

Virgin Money, well known for their 6,700%+ APR loans in a 'commercially sensitive' part of England.

You're talking bollocks and, worse, bollocks that you know nothing about.


I've been working with Shari'a banking for seven years - (in the UAE, Qatar and Oman) for (among others, QIB, QFIB, Barclays Shari'a, Lloyds Shari'a, etc.) so I've got a decent grasp on the subject. The paradox is that for your short post, there's so much wrong with it. I've neither the time nor the inclination to point out the minutae of the numerous errors but the main aspect, which will become apparent in the next 10 days or so, is that there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

Secondly, ursury, which is haram under Shari'a, has a certain amount of flexibility without (and even within - but you need to make like a mouse) non-Muslim countries. QIB (http://www.qib.com.qa/en/index.aspx), for example, offer loans, mortages, credit cards and overdrafts and they don't do it for the good of their health; but said flexibility doesn't stretch to 6,700%+ APR.

Thirdly, and I hope this has just slipped your mind, it's Ramadan for the next three weeks and this obviously makes things extra sensitive. FFS, the Asian that runs my corner shop wanted me to fast and he knows I'm Christian.

Perhaps he wanted me to fast because I'm a fat ******* but you're over simplifying the situation and not in possession of the full facts.


FK got a non-888 shirt for half a season but then agreed to wear the regular one on the proviso that he would not take part in any promo activity for the sponsor, and did not.


PFA are backing Cisse and, although I am no fan of islam, I'm 100% behind Cisse. The mood on Tyneside is that NUFC have made yet another major rick in having such a nauseating shirt sponsor and a good number of fans are backing Cisse, even those with views on islam that would prevent gainful employ at the BBC or the Guardian.

I've arranged for my new home shirt (mid August) to have 'wonga' starred out in black vinyl asterisks from that shop on Rose Street.


Horses for courses. It's not the first time (Kanoute for one). If you can find a similar organisation to Wonga having sponsored a team from a predominantly Islamic country then I'd be - genuinely - curious to learn of it.

There's several muslims (Hatem Ben Arfa) for one and even Taouil at the yams who have had no problem with Wonga.

As you concede, there's other forces at work here anyhow. Give it a week, maybe a little more, and we will be nearer an answer. Religion is, however, part of the issue here.

Again, Cisse's (stated) objection is not the usury - just the level of the same.

My issue, and why I am backing Cisse, is that Bolton were offered a similar shirt sponsor for the upcoming season, put it to their fans via a vote, and got a resounding '**** off'. NUFC fans? We got no say and, for a club owned by a retailer, that's a poor move on Ashley's part. Merchandise sales will be down (significantly, if what I hear and read are correct) and we're obviously not going to win anything so it's getting to the point that he's doing things like this (Joe Kinnear, etc.) on purpose.

One of the NUFC sites is setting up the sale of patches to cover up the sponsor's name, and that's unusual.

Now that this appears to be sorted days after Cisse was unmasked as a hypocrite, would you care to give us your insight as to what other forces were at work?

[hibsbollah]

Now that this appears to be sorted days after Cisse was unmasked as a hypocrite, would you care to give us your insight as to what other forces were at work?

Hypocrisy is an easy word to chuck around. Personally I have no interest in what he does in his spare time, the relevant issue is he made a stand against an odious organisation, gave publicity to the campaign against Wonga, and still (from what ive heard from friends and colleagues) has substantial support on Tyneside. It kind of reminds me of the recent whistleblower story in the US; a genuinely interesting and valid campaign about an issue that could stimulate debate about the kind of society we want to live in, is distilled down by an infantile media into character assassination.

[Sylar]

Hypocrisy is an easy word to chuck around. Personally I have no interest in what he does in his spare time, the relevant issue is he made a stand against an odious organisation, gave publicity to the campaign against Wonga, and still (from what ive heard from friends and colleagues) has substantial support on Tyneside. It kind of reminds me of the recent whistleblower story in the US; a genuinely interesting and valid campaign about an issue that could stimulate debate about the kind of society we want to live in, is distilled down by an infantile media into character assassination.

I don't disagree Bollah. He took a stand against a company many find abhorrent and few have a problem being seen taken to task.

However, he tried to disguise the issue by claiming his objections were founded in his religious principles, which clearly he doesn't adhere to with any level of consistency. Perhaps he felt he had a stronger case if he attached the religious aspect to his stance which meant he had a better chance of not wearing the shirt? Who knows.

Though I would agree that hypocrisy isn't the correct term in this instance. Selective interpretation of the faith though, it certainly seems to be.

[RyeSloan]

How has this been resolved?

What I read indicates a compromise but don't see what concessions Cisse extracted.

[Future17]

Hypocrisy is an easy word to chuck around. Personally I have no interest in what he does in his spare time, the relevant issue is he made a stand against an odious organisation, gave publicity to the campaign against Wonga, and still (from what ive heard from friends and colleagues) has substantial support on Tyneside. It kind of reminds me of the recent whistleblower story in the US; a genuinely interesting and valid campaign about an issue that could stimulate debate about the kind of society we want to live in, is distilled down by an infantile media into character assassination.

Admittedly our knowledge of Cisse's actual stance is limited, however, from what we know of his actions we can infer he was unhappy playing with Wonga on his shirt and all the evidence points to him having cited religious reasons. He will now play with Wonga on his shirt and this "compromise" was achieved days after he was pictured gambling in a casino. In the absence of any information to the contrary, that makes him a hypocrite in my book.

People's attitudes to Wonga still confuse me. I'm fairly certain that there are (and have been) companies whose names and logos have appeared on the shirts of football clubs, the morality of whom is far below that of Wonga. They are a business. They seek to make money. They don't force people to use their services. Whilst there are probably Newcastle fans who have good reasons not to want Wonga on their club's shirt, it's disingenuous to pretend Cisse is in the same group.

[CropleyWasGod]

People's attitudes to Wonga still confuse me. I'm fairly certain that there are (and have been) companies whose names and logos have appeared on the shirts of football clubs, the morality of whom is far below that of Wonga. They are a business. They seek to make money. They don't force people to use their services. Whilst there are probably Newcastle fans who have good reasons not to want Wonga on their club's shirt, it's disingenuous to pretend Cisse is in the same group.

For me, morality is a personal measure. I don't think that one can say "x is morally worse than y", without qualifying it with "in my opinion".

[Future17]

For me, morality is a personal measure. I don't think that one can say "x is morally worse than y", without qualifying it with "in my opinion".

I agree. What I meant was that, to the best of my knowledge, Wonga as a company run an honest business; there are other companies who aren't bothered about acting honestly/obeying the law/having morals etc. and they don't seem to get the same treatment as Wonga.