New stadium for Edinburgh rugby and/or Hearts? (merged)

[21.05.2016]

Not a lot to do with anything, but I'd just like to register my view about what a pish-soaked, minging, rat trap that tip is. Apart from being full of the most grotesque jakeys and pedos imaginable, this disease-ridden hive, apologetically crammed into a postage stamp space behind tenements, warehouses and Victoria schools, is not only a blight on our fair city, Scotland, the UK, and Europe, but calls into question our right to be considered a civilized species by any watching extraterrestrial life forms.

C'mon Edinburgh Council - don't wait for the joke of a club who inhabit it to perish -shut this embarrassment down.

Could not have put it any better myself Bob :top marks


**** coloured, rickety old dump of a stadium. Quite fitting for the tramps and low lifes who go there to support their horrible, scabby little club.

[21.05.2016]

As funny as it would be to have those arrogant, horrible tramps come grovelling to us for help especially after they have spent years giving us their "big team, wee team" pish. I just can't stand the idea of those inbreds using our lovely stadium.

[sidneyhibbie]

It's state of art according to all yams

6 quid for a tour but masks must be worn due to risk of Asbestos poisoning.

[Ozyhibby]

Posted by Bob Jameison on Kickback

If anybody can convert a PDF file into a URL link to post on here let me know. I can send the Edinburgh Council Stadium 160 Page Report.

If this can be done, the PDF will save any more disputes over the future of Tynecastle Stadium.

Tynecastle is not an asset, it's a liability. It saddens me just thinking about leaving Tynecastle.

I am also bound by a BDO confidentiality agreement and NDA and limited in what can be revealed.

The nonsense posted about me on here is upsetting and unnecessary.

I am a proud 66 year-old third-generation Hearts fan and attended my first game in 1955, aged 8, with my grandad.

Two years ago today I delivered an outline plan to Fedotovas after being invited to submit ideas for a new stadium at Murrayfield. I spoke to The SRU, Edinburgh Council and referred to the Doig+Smith Tynecastle Stadium Report which had been commissioned by Edinburgh Council . . . which was kept secret by Romanov who probably needed to continue to over-inflate its true value.

A few months later Romanov could finally see the writing was on the wall and that a huge stadium investment was required. He pulled his funding support and put the Club up for sale.

I have never made an offer for ANY football club and the Daily Record shambolic reporting was referred to the Press Complaints Commission and I received an apology and a retraction. Since then I have had two heart-attacks and a triple by-pass but have continued to seek out investors in the Club.

If HMFC's offer is successful the decision on the stadium will follow. The Report estimates it will cost £30m to remain and £40m for a brand new stadium.


As a 3rd-generation Hearts fan I only want to see our Club in safe hands and run by professionals rather than a 12 man committee of part-timers (plus George Foulkes) with an unsustainable income stream . . . and no budget to address the stadium issues.

We'll see.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

I wonder where they are gonna get £40 million from to run hearts??

[matty_f]

I wonder where they are gonna get £40 million from to run hearts??

Cloud cuckoo-land.

[bingo70]

That's a right old dig at the foh, pleased someone's said it, these clowns are right getting on my wick.

So the jamieson guy is saying leaving tynecastle is inevitable? If he takes over is it also likely he'd start a newco or us the 5 million quid offer to keep hearts in their current format?

A newco starting at the bottom and losing tynecastle is the ideal scenario imo.

[ronaldo7]

It seems Boaby is trying to keep the link with the cooncil alive and kicking.

Remember this one from a wee while ago. 2011


http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

[Ozyhibby]

It seems Boaby is trying to keep the link with the cooncil alive and kicking.

Remember this one from a wee while ago. 2011


http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

On page one it talks about Hearts being a well run club. I knew I was well and truly through the looking glass at that point.

[lapsedhibee]

I wonder where they are gonna get £40 million from to run hearts??


It seems Boaby is trying to keep the link with the cooncil alive and kicking.


:hmmm:

[steakbake]

:hmmm:

Haha The Council might dig deep for a 'municipal' stadium for their favourite team...

[ronaldo7]

On page one it talks about Hearts being a well run club. I knew I was well and truly through the looking glass at that point.

Section 2.4 in the document states the cooncil " may be able to contribute land for the development". I wonder what we'll get from the cooncil:greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

The council have been told to cut £100m a year, the roads are in a state, they've had the housing repair fiasco, im sure spending millions is top of their budget for Los Yambolinos, Farmer and Petrie would tear them a new one if they even tried

PS where in Murrayfield would this mega stadium be? only room i can think of about there is the park or training pitches

[ronaldo7]

The council have been told to cut £100m a year, the roads are in a state, they've had the housing repair fiasco, im sure spending millions is top of their budget for Los Yambolinos, Farmer and Petrie would tear them a new one if they even tried

PS where in Murrayfield would this mega stadium be? only room i can think of about there is the park or training pitches

I know the cooncil a ****ed for dosh mate. Just keeping it out there so to speak. The sparryheids will be loving it though:greengrin

[The Falcon]

The council have been told to cut £100m a year, the roads are in a state, they've had the housing repair fiasco, im sure spending millions is top of their budget for Los Yambolinos, Farmer and Petrie would tear them a new one if they even tried

PS where in Murrayfield would this mega stadium be? only room i can think of about there is the park or training pitches

Did they not meet with the Council shortly after this report first appeared? With EDC distancing themselves from the project immediately after the meeting?

[greenginger]

Did they not meet with the Council shortly after this report first appeared? With EDC distancing themselves from the project immediately after the meeting?

Yip, when it was shown the the report was written by Diog and Smith's lead partner Stewart Cobb who is an HOMFC share holder.

[Springbank]

Did they not meet with the Council shortly after this report first appeared? With EDC distancing themselves from the project immediately after the meeting?

Yes it was reported in the Scotsman on 24 Nov 2011

Reported as follows (and may I add Well Done Iron Rod and Sir Tom!)

"THE row over a proposed joint stadium between Heart of Midlothian and Edinburgh City Council intensified yesterday after it emerged arch rivals Hibernian had accused the local authority of “favouritism”.Fresh doubts over the prospect of Hearts being able to hire part of a new “community stadium” have also emerged after councillors admitted such a facility would have to have a running track.
Sir Tom Farmer, the owner of the Easter Road side and the club’s chief executive Rod Petrie are understood to have protested to the authority at a behind-closed-doors meeting recently.
Council chiefs were asked to explain why Hearts have been offered assistance to find a suitable replacement for Tynecastle, as well as help to meet the cost of a £30,000 study, when Hibs were offered no help to rebuild Easter Road.
Hibs fans have been left furious after it emerged that the council was pursuing plans for a shared stadium with Hearts, shortly before they declared they were being forced to quit Tynecastle due to problems over redeveloping the ageing ground.
Mr Petrie also made his feelings clear to the fans at the club’s recent AGM, when he compared the council’s efforts to help Hearts with the problems Hibs had faced over Easter Road, including a protracted dispute over a plot of land near the ground.
He said: “We have the craziness of the City of Edinburgh Council wanting to build a stadium for Hearts because Tynecastle is not fit for purpose and because Hearts have chosen to spend money on players (http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/hibs-accuse-edinburgh-council-of-bias-towards-hearts-over-stadium-1-1981656#) rather than on a stadium.”
Sources at the city council claimed that Hibs’ officials said their club was warned the main stand might have been closed down if it failed to meet health and safety standards.
They raised concerns that, by comparison, Hearts had been offered more leeway because of stalled efforts to redevelop Tynecastle.
An insider said: “The concerns from Hibs have definitely made it more difficult for the council to press ahead with any kind of shared stadium with Hearts.
“They believe there has been an element of favouritism and bias in the way the two clubs have been treated.
“Any shared stadium is bound to be seen as the council building a stadium for Hearts, and that is a political non-starter in a city like Edinburgh.”
Earlier this month Dave Anderson, the council’s director of city development, said it would be a “failure of ambition” on the council’s part not to examine the joint stadium plans.
However, Jim Lowrie, the city’s planning leader, said: “I don’t see a shared ground with Hearts really being a goer at the moment.

“The council doesn’t really have any money for something like that and if we were going to look at a new stadium it would need to be for athletics, as that is what we received funding for previously. It would need a running track, but Hearts wouldn’t be happy with that.”"

Ends

[Phil MaGlass]

Seemingly although I,m a bit vague on this,under new Euro rules this would be a non goer, just like PSV in Holland it would be seen as the council helping out financially and that is why PSV is having to pay millions back to the council. This project if it happened would be looked at by Euro folk and deemed the council were helping hertz oot and they would have to pay millions back. Aye its vague but ah cannae mind how it goes.

[Moon unit]

My worst fear is that they will Slime there way out of this...end up getting help from the Cooncil,everyone start feeling sorry for them,(BBC punters being worst offenders) ! They are like an Uber cockroach that will appear after any adminiliquianhialation!!!!...

[CropleyWasGod]

My worst fear is that they will Slime there way out of this...end up getting help from the Cooncil,everyone start feeling sorry for them,(BBC punters being worst offenders) ! They are like an Uber cockroach that will appear after any adminiliquianhialation!!!!...

Ah, sweet Moon Unit, IIRC your old man had a zero-tolerance approach to drugs in his bands. If you stay away from them, too, you will realise that the bit in bold just won't happen.

[Moon unit]

Ah, sweet Moon Unit, IIRC your old man had a zero-tolerance approach to drugs in his bands. If you stay away from them, too, you will realise that the bit in bold just won't happen.

HOT RATS!!!...you may be right(bout' the drugs),still unsure bout the Cooncil though! :greengrin

[Hibee87]

My worst fear is that they will Slime there way out of this...end up getting help from the Cooncil,everyone start feeling sorry for them,(BBC punters being worst offenders) ! They are like an Uber cockroach that will appear after any adminiliquianhialation!!!!...

I heard somthing on the radio the other day about meadowbank staying open, not sue what the whole story was but IF this is true then there will be no council stadium (not that i think there would be any way, weather meadowbank stays open or not) not at least for another 5 - 10 years.

wish they would hurry and die though :rolleyes:

[YehButNoBut]

I heard somthing on the radio the other day about meadowbank staying open, not sue what the whole story was but IF this is true then there will be no council stadium (not that i think there would be any way, weather meadowbank stays open or not) not at least for another 5 - 10 years.

wish they would hurry and die though :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23463388

Experts draw up £60,000 options for Meadowbank Stadium

[Keith_M]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23463388

Experts draw up £60,000 options for Meadowbank Stadium

£60,000?

Surely that would only pay for a coat of paint?

[poolman]

My worst fear is that they will Slime there way out of this...end up getting help from the Cooncil,everyone start feeling sorry for them,(BBC punters being worst offenders) ! They are like an Uber cockroach that will appear after any adminiliquianhialation!!!!...


I'ts been done to death this one

THE COUNCIL WILL NOT GET INVOLVED

[OrdHibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23463388

Experts draw up £60,000 options for Meadowbank Stadium

Here's this 'value for the taxpayer' bollocks again. Remember when STF put in a bit for the butterfly land and the council stated that they have to look after the tax payer and get the best price value when it was actually Hibs that offered the most money. That scheming council are at it again. The verdict will be 20.000 stadium or we need to build a new one PISH.
Why did no-one question those ****ers when they sold all the land to the phaedos on McLeod St for virtually a 5th of its true valve. Are we awe soft. Keep on the backs of this corrupt council. These ****ers will never give up on helping those ****bags in gorgay. The same council that paid for the Roseburn stand to be built. Have we awe got short memories. **** the council and **** hawrts.

[Keith_M]

.....The verdict will be 20.000 stadium or we need to build a new one PISH.


Really? Didn't you already tell us that the council were going to build them a super dooper stadium at Ratho? Why would they need two stadiums?

[steakbake]

£60,000?

Surely that would only pay for a coat of paint?

That's the cost of the report...

[Sanger]

I'ts been done to death this one

THE COUNCIL WILL NOT GET INVOLVED

my mate who works for the sports dept at the council and had a meeting prior to admin with Hearts directors says no financial help from council for any new Hearts stadium.

[Kaiser1962]

my mate who works for the sports dept at the council and had a meeting prior to admin with Hearts directors says no financial help from council for any new Hearts stadium.

Was it a scheduled meeting?

I ask because if what you say is true, which I have no reason to doubt your mate, it may mean that the Hearts directors knew there was a chance they might lose Tynecastle. They seem to have moved a lot of stuff about (inter company) prior to the whole shabang going bump.

[Keith_M]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23463388

Experts draw up £60,000 options for Meadowbank Stadium


£60,000?

Surely that would only pay for a coat of paint?


That's the cost of the report...


:shotdowni

[Kaiser1962]

£60,000?

Surely that would only pay for a coat of paint?

If you add in the £15k that the Council paid towards the report on Tynecastle then they may even get some gloss on it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:shotdowni

I see the scope for what I understand is a council facility (run by Edinburgh leisure) has now shifted to a facility not for the east of Edinburgh but the East of Scotland.

This ladies and gentlemen in my view paves the way for demolition and relocation. Bad news for the East of EDINBURGH. Sick to death of this council self-serving, unaccountable waste of money. Stadium-gate begins. It will overrun budget as lessons from previous infrastructure projects go unneeded.

maybe it's not a council thing but sportscotland

[OrdHibby]

Really? Didn't you already tell us that the council were going to build them a super dooper stadium at Ratho? Why would they need two stadiums?

I did. But maybe they can't justify it so they're maybe now going to revamp Meadowbank which they said a few years ago was no fit for purpose. Thats when they had their eye on *****hill. I watched these pro-**** *******s over the years and they make me puke.

[jgl07]

...The same council that paid for the Roseburn stand to be built. Have we awe got short memories. **** the council and **** hawrts.

Where do you get this crap from? You are the one with a non-existent memory.

The City Council did not pay for the Roseburn Stand.

What happened was that Lothian Regional Council agreed to rent space under the stand. This helped them obtain the finance but the agreement was never invoked. No pianos were stored there and no money changed hands.

[Keith_M]

Where do you get this crap from? You are the one with a non-existent memory.

The City Council did not pay for the Roseburn Stand.

What happened was that Lothian Regional Council agreed to rent space under the stand. This helped them obtain the finance but the agreement was never invoked. No pianos were stored there and no money changed hands.


He comes out with this stuff all the time.

Since appearing this week, he's claimed the Council are building them a stadium at ratho, the Council are building them a stadium at Meadowbank and the council built them the Roseburn stand.

He made a total boo-boo regarding the words of 'Ooh To Be' and tried to defend his version.

He also over-compensates in the level of abuse he gives Hearts.


I'll leave you to judge for yourself but I've already made MY mind up about him.

[joe breezy]

He comes out with this stuff all the time.

Since appearing this week, he's claimed the Council are building them a stadium at ratho, the Council are building them a stadium at Meadowbank and the council built them the Roseburn stand.

He made a total boo-boo regarding the words of 'Ooh To Be' and tried to defend his version.

He also over-compensates in the level of abuse he gives Hearts.


I'll leave you to judge for yourself but I've already made MY mind up about him.

I made my mind up on his first post :agree:

[OrdHibby]

Where do you get this crap from? You are the one with a non-existent memory.

The City Council did not pay for the Roseburn Stand.

What happened was that Lothian Regional Council agreed to rent space under the stand. This helped them obtain the finance but the agreement was never invoked. No pianos were stored there and no money changed hands.

Correct. The rent covered the cost of the stand though so YES THEY PAID FOR IT. As far as i'm aware the rent was paid up front. Waken up. Said they'd use them as lock-ups or whatever when they have places lying dormant all over Edinburgh.

[CropleyWasGod]

Correct. The rent covered the cost of the stand though so YES THEY PAID FOR IT. Waken up. Said they'd use them as lock-ups or whatever when they have places lying dormant all over Edinburgh.

He said "no money changed hands". :wink:

[OrdHibby]

He said "no money changed hands". :wink:

LOL true :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

LOL true :greengrin

So they didn't actually pay for the stand?

[GodisaHibee]

Not a lot to do with anything, but I'd just like to register my view about what a pish-soaked, minging, rat trap that tip is. Apart from being full of the most grotesque jakeys and pedos imaginable, this disease-ridden hive, apologetically crammed into a postage stamp space behind tenements, warehouses and Victoria schools, is not only a blight on our fair city, Scotland, the UK, and Europe, but calls into question our right to be considered a civilized species by any watching extraterrestrial life forms.

C'mon Edinburgh Council - don't wait for the joke of a club who inhabit it to perish -shut this embarrassment down.

Don't hold back Bob. You need to be more honest and tell it like t is! Give them the long knuckle and diss the Main Cop.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Sanger]

Was it a scheduled meeting?

I ask because if what you say is true, which I have no reason to doubt your mate, it may mean that the Hearts directors knew there was a chance they might lose Tynecastle. They seem to have moved a lot of stuff about (inter company) prior to the whole shabang going bump.

It was an out of the blue meeting at Hearts directors request where they admitted they would have to sell Tynecastle. He won't tell me anymore about the meeting apart from the fact that council was not prepared to put in any money to their proposals.

[Sanger]

It was an out of the blue meeting at Hearts directors request where they admitted they would have to sell Tynecastle. He won't tell me anymore about the meeting apart from the fact that council was not prepared to put in any money to their proposals.
The meeting happened after Ukio's initial bankruptcy but before UBIG self-declared insolvency. I gave my mate all the links from Bloomberg pointing to Ukiio's bankruptcy being a result of Romanov's loans to speculative investment projects including Hearts to help him warn the council not to touch Hearts.

[OrdHibby]

So they didn't actually pay for the stand?

The ****bo's didn't pay for it, thats for sure

[poolman]

The ****bo's didn't pay for it, thats for sure

Isn't it about time you just gave up

[CropleyWasGod]

The ****bo's didn't pay for it, thats for sure

So who did?

Is it capitalised in their accounts?

[OrdHibby]

So who did?

Is it capitalised in their accounts?

Do they have accounts :confused:

If you mean the council, why don't you check with that freedom of information thingy

[CropleyWasGod]

Do they have accounts :confused:

If you mean the council, why don't you check with that freedom of information thingy

I mean the Hearts.

Yes, they do have accounts. They're in the public domain.

[OrdHibby]

Isn't it about time you just gave up

I don't want to sit back and watch them get away with anything else pal. I know hawrts paid nothing for the Roseburn stand.

[OrdHibby]

I mean the Hearts.

Yes, they do have accounts. They're in the public domain.

I'm sure one of the brain guys like greenginger could dig it up for us. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm sure one of the brain guys like greenginger could dig it up for us. :aok:

It doesn't need brains.

It needs £1, and a visit to the Companies House site.

Again, though.... who paid for the stand? I am genuinely interested.

[OrdHibby]

It doesn't need brains.

It needs £1, and a visit to the Companies House site.

Again, though.... who paid for the stand? I am genuinely interested.

the tax payer and has the council ever used the so called facilities ? My monies on NO they haven't.

[CropleyWasGod]

the tax payer

In what way?

Directly?

By a Grant?

[OrdHibby]

In what way?

Directly?

By a Grant?
All i know is it wasn't hawrts who paid for it. While we're at it, who paid for the council depot on McLead St to be moved to Sighthill and who bought the land from Ethicon ? My guess is the tax payer again.
Can you prove that it was Hawrts that paid for the Roseburn stand as i don't now anyone who can. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

All i know is it wasn't hawrts who paid for it. While we're at it, who paid for the council depot on McLead St to be moved to Sighthill and who bought the land from Ethicon ? My guess is the tax payer again.
Can you prove that it was Hawrts that paid for the Roseburn stand as i don't now anyone who can. :wink:

I can't prove anything. I'm relying on your assertion here. I'm interested in how you come to the conclusion "All i know is it wasn't hawrts who paid for it" What's your evidence for that?

I would've thought that a look at the Hearts' accounts would go some way to proving it one way or another.

[Liberal Hibby]

All i know is it wasn't hawrts who paid for it. While we're at it, who paid for the council depot on McLead St to be moved to Sighthill and who bought the land from Ethicon ? My guess is the tax payer again.
Can you prove that it was Hawrts that paid for the Roseburn stand as i don't now anyone who can. :wink:

Can we launch him now when he's on 62 posts?

[OrdHibby]

I can't prove anything. I'm relying on your assertion here. I'm interested in how you come to the conclusion "All i know is it wasn't hawrts who paid for it" What's your evidence for that?

I would've thought that a look at the Hearts' accounts would go some way to proving it one way or another.

when did they start using account ?

It was in the EEN around the time of completion the council were paying £120K a year for 10 years. I couldn't believe it when i read it as they had some many places lying empty they could use.

[CropleyWasGod]

when did they start using account ?

It was in the EEN around the time of completion the council were paying £120K a year for 10 years. I couldn't believe it when i read it as they had some many places lying empty they could use.

Their accounts are, as has been said many times on here, up to date.

You ignored the bit that I mentioned before. According to JGL, no money changed hands.

If you're right, there will be an entry in their accounts for rent received. Is it there?

[OrdHibby]

Their accounts are, as has been said many times on here, up to date.

You ignored the bit that I mentioned before. According to JGL, no money changed hands.

If you're right, there will be an entry in their accounts for rent received. Is it there?

Couldn't tell you. The council were paying rent and as far as i'm aware it was paid up from therefor hawrts wouldn't have had have received any money. The money may have been paid directly to the bus shelter company.
p.s who IS JGL

[CropleyWasGod]

Couldn't tell you. The council were paying rent and as far as i'm aware it was paid up from therefor hawrts won't have to have received any money. The money may have been paid directly to the bus shelter company.
So JGL is fact is he ? what he says goes ? why not question him.

Now you're havering. "Hawrts" and "the bus shelter company" are one and the same.

In your scenario, it would still have been shown as "rent received". I'm tempted to say "Fact. End Of" here, but I shan't.

I'm not saying JGL is fact either. However, his version of events seems to be more plausible than yours. I can't reconcile his and yours.

ps he is the one with the Bobby Johnstone avatar.

[OrdHibby]

Now you're havering. "Hawrts" and "the bus shelter company" are one and the same.

In your scenario, it would still have been shown as "rent received". I'm tempted to say "Fact. End Of" here, but I shan't.

I'm not saying JGL is fact either. However, his version of events seems to be more plausible than yours. I can't reconcile his and yours.
the bus shelter company erected the pink bus shelter :wink:

as i say, it'll come out if someone can be ersed checking it. i'll pay the `£1 if need be.

[Dunderhall]

Couldn't tell you. The council were paying rent and as far as i'm aware it was paid up from therefor hawrts won't have to have received any money. The money may have been paid directly to the bus shelter company.
p.s who IS JGL
Can you explain what you mean exactly by the bit in bold?

[OrdHibby]

Can you explain what you mean exactly by the bit in bold?
i've corrected my errors

[CropleyWasGod]

the bus shelter company erected the pink bus shelter :wink:

as i say, it'll come out if someone can be ersed checking it. i'll pay the `£1 if need be.

Okay, let me try and understand this.

The Council paid the constructor the purchase price of the stand up-front. This being on the basis that they had a 10 (?) year lease in place. So either (a) they paid rent 10 years in advance, which would have been picked up and commented on publicly (at the very least) by the Council's auditor or (b) the constructor is being paid over 10 years.

Do you know which it is?

Either way, there will be "rent received" in the accounts for each of the 10 years.


If it is true, are the Council withholding rent to pay off the rates arrears?

[OrdHibby]

Okay, let me try and understand this.

The Council paid the constructor the purchase price of the stand up-front. This being on the basis that they had a 10 (?) year lease in place. So either (a) they paid rent 10 years in advance, which would have been picked up and commented on (at the very least) by the Council's auditor or (b) the constructor is being paid over 10 years.

Do you know which it is?


`If it bothers you that much and you think i'm lying why are you bothering.

p.s i never said the council paid the construction company. I suggest you read it again.

I'll see if i can get the info on the freedom of information, the same freedom of information you won't get on the butterfly dealings because the council won't release them ( or is that a lie also ) :rolleyes:

[OrdHibby]

Okay, let me try and understand this.

The Council paid the constructor the purchase price of the stand up-front. This being on the basis that they had a 10 (?) year lease in place. So either (a) they paid rent 10 years in advance, which would have been picked up and commented on publicly (at the very least) by the Council's auditor or (b) the constructor is being paid over 10 years.

Do you know which it is?

Either way, there will be "rent received" in the accounts for each of the 10 years.


If it is true, are the Council withholding rent to pay off the rates arrears?

seriously :rolleyes: would you like me to nip round tonight ( it'll take me about 5 hours if i leave now ) and find out for you ?

[CropleyWasGod]

`If it bothers you that much and you think i'm lying why are you bothering.

p.s i never said the council paid the construction company. I suggest you read it again.

I'll see if i can get the info on the freedom of information, the same freedom of information you won't get on the butterfly dealings because the council won't release them ( or is that a lie also ) :rolleyes:

I have never said you are lying. I am trying to get to the bottom of things here. I work on the basis of evidence. That's my job.

As I say, you don't need FOI. A simple trawl through the accounts would suffice.

(You did say "The money may have been paid directly to the bus shelter company.")

[Dunderhall]

p.s i never said the council paid the construction company. I suggest you read it again.

Not judging either way, but if the council paid for the stand as you say, but didn't give money to hearts as you say, and didn't give the money to the "bus shelter company" who built the stadium as you say, how exactly did they pay for it?
The £120K over ten years went to who?

[Treadstone]

Ord having his Sidney moment "I was talking to the Heriot Watt high heid yin" :faf:

[OrdHibby]

I have never said you are lying. I am trying to get to the bottom of things here. I work on the basis of evidence. That's my job.

As I say, you don't need FOI. A simple trawl through the accounts would suffice.

(You did say "The money may have been paid directly to the bus shelter company.")

This ain't my line of business. I wouldn't know where to start. The word may doesn't actually mean was. I'm surmising. I have no proof whatsoever of how it was all done or i would tell you. All i know is the cost of the stand was paid for by the tax payer. It should never have happened as the flats behind Easter Road should never have happened. The butterfly land should have been sold to the highest bidder which was Tom Farmer. We could be making a small fortune out of that venture had it not been for that corrupt gorgay council.

[OrdHibby]

Not judging either way, but if the council paid for the stand as you say, but didn't give money to hearts as you say, and didn't give the money to the "bus shelter company" who built the stadium as you say, how exactly did they pay for it?

thats the only bit i've have said is fact. it matter not one jot how the money was paid. hawrts got a new stand at the cost of the tax payer.

[CropleyWasGod]

This ain't my line of business. I wouldn't know where to start. The work may doesn't actually mean was. I'm surmising. I have no proof whatsoever of how it was all done or i would tell you. All i know is the cost of the stand was paid for buy the tax payer. It should never have happened as the flats behind Easter Road should never have happened.

... which is where we came in.

I am trying to get to the bottom of your assertion, and thus far haven't seen any evidence to back it up.

However, fire over the accounts and I'll look them over. No charge.

[Dunderhall]

thats the only bit i've have said is fact. it matter not one jot how the money was paid. hawrts got a new stand at the cost of the tax payer.
So how do you know it's a fact, based on what?
Honest question.

[Treadstone]

I smell sh***

[Dunderhall]

However, fire over the accounts and I'll look them over. No charge.

:shocked: industry enquiry! :greengrin

[OrdHibby]

... which is where we came in.

I am trying to get to the bottom of your assertion, and thus far haven't seen any evidence to back it up.

However, fire over the accounts and I'll look them over. No charge.

how do i get a hold of their accounts and i'll do it. you might be quicker yourself or are you worried i just might be right :whistle:

[OrdHibby]

I smell sh***
it'll be the location your in :agree:

[Treadstone]

it'll be the location your in :agree:

*you're

Its where your football team plays.

[OrdHibby]

So how do you know it's a fact, based on what?
Honest question.
It was in the evening news the council were renting it for £120K a year for ten years and low and behold the cost to erect the ****ty thing was £1.2M. Need i say more :confused:

[OrdHibby]

*you're

you're :aok:

[Dunderhall]

It was in the evening news the council were renting it for £120K a year for ten years and low and behold the cost to erect the ****ty thing was £1.2M. Need i say more :confused:
Got a decent link for the £1.2M cost, just if that was the capital required to build it, then whoever was payed wouldn't take £1.2M over ten years.

[Hibs07p]

I think OrdHibby is getting a rough ride over his recollections of the Roseburn stand issue. I'm not bringing any new evidence to light to support his stance, but my recollections are much about the same. It was reported in the EEN that the council would be leasing storage under the Roseburn Stand for a 10 year period, and that equated to the full cost of the stand. Was it ever used? :dunno: Did the council ever pay a lease? :dunno: Was the lease a vehicle to obtain finance? :dunno: It was well documented at the time though.

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

I think OrdHibby is getting a rough ride over his recollections of the Roseburn stand issue. I'm not bringing any new evidence to light to support his stance, but my recollections are much about the same. It was reported in the EEN that the council would be leasing storage under the Roseburn Stand for a 10 year period, and that equated to the full cost of the stand. Was it ever used? :dunno: Did the council ever pay a lease? :dunno: Was the lease a vehicle to obtain finance? :dunno: It was well documented at the time though.

GGTTH

If he is getting a rough ride, it's because I want to get to the bottom of it. It's the first time I have heard of it. That's not to say that it didn't happen, but one would have thought that (if it did happen) it would have been brought up many times on here over the years as evidence of a "pro-Yam Council". Maybe it has, and I have missed it.

As the Huns and Yams insolvency threads have proved, we're actually quite good at forensically cutting through stories to get at the truth, even if it means trashing our green-tinted specs. For me, that means bringing evidence.

Thus far, we have two conflicting stories. Neither backed up by hard evidence, of course, but the circumstantial evidence points away from your client, m'lud. :greengrin

The bits in bold are key for me. As are the questions "if the lease did actually exist, was it at commercial rates, and on the basis of a properly documented needs assessment?" If the answers to those are "yes", I actually have no problem with the arrangement.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think OrdHibby is getting a rough ride over his recollections of the Roseburn stand issue. I'm not bringing any new evidence to light to support his stance, but my recollections are much about the same. It was reported in the EEN that the council would be leasing storage under the Roseburn Stand for a 10 year period, and that equated to the full cost of the stand. Was it ever used? :dunno: Did the council ever pay a lease? :dunno: Was the lease a vehicle to obtain finance? :dunno: It was well documented at the time though.

GGTTH

Corroborating evidence from Ord would be nice.

[Hibs07p]

If he is getting a rough ride, it's because I want to get to the bottom of it. It's the first time I have heard of it. That's not to say that it didn't happen, but one would have thought that (if it did happen) it would have been brought up many times on here over the years as evidence of a "pro-Yam Council". Maybe it has, and I have missed it.

As the Huns and Yams insolvency threads have proved, we're actually quite good at forensically cutting through stories to get at the truth, even if it means trashing our green-tinted specs. For me, that means bringing evidence.

Thus far, we have two conflicting stories. Neither backed up by hard evidence, of course, but the circumstantial evidence points away from your client, m'lud. :greengrin

The bits in bold are key for me. As is the question "if the lease did actually exist, was it at commercial rates, and on the basis of a properly documented needs assessment?"

To be fair, 20 years is a long time to remember the full facts of the deal, but it was reported in the EEN at the time. It could have been watered down a bit later, Hibs may have asked to receive a similar deal, (something about Norton Park rings a bell), it could have been dropped altogether, but my memory believes, Hearts received a "deal" from the council, that equated to the full value of the build. Would the Hibs historian be able to shed any light? :dunno: The council at that time did "aid" Hearts with the Roseburn rebuild to some degree, proving it now appears to be very difficult though. :greengrin

GGTTH

[Hibs07p]

Corroborating evidence from Ord would be nice.

I agree, but it could be difficult now though.

GGTTH

[YehButNoBut]

We did touch on this subject 3 years ago in this thread.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?185829-Scale-down!!

Quite funny to read the Yam view then on how their development would turn out and where they are now. :greengrin

Especially this one from post #15

Laugh? I nearly cried!

Taken from oneflewoverthecuckoo'snestkickback relating to the PBS and their new stand.....

Hibs fans like to take the mickey out of Tynecastle with their Pink Bus Shelter nonsense but it is a very good stadium, the three new stands serve their purpose, provide seats and enhancing the atmosphere. Hibs may have seats but they have little else, they dont have that stadium 'x' factor that makes the place extra special at matches, that can make the opposition tremble and fear coming there. So many stadium fail to achieve this, but some do, Celtic Park does, Anfield does.

I like the Main stand, it is a classic stand. But the problem is that its a stand built for purpose in 1914 not for the 21st stadium. I think we could of got away with keeping it had it not been the main stand. Sadly we need a new stand to take Hearts further. But I think that when coming up with a new stand, it needs to be different and keep the cracking atmosphere in. If only we could also fill in the corners (someone mentioned we cant, well not easily, due to the floodlight towers holding up the stadium) that would create such a atmosphere for the Stadium, the echo effect would be devastating, if we could master that imagine the fear the opposistion fans and players would feel and the stirring it would have on Hearts (ignore the pun) of our players.

Anyway. From listening to the interview with Sergey (the good one©) it sounds like that just like any business who had planned a large capital intensive project and then the recession came along, they have to readjust as they cant afford the same level of investment. So they seem to scrap the hotel and conference building. Then readjust the stand plan to still bring in an increase of seats and also corporate facilities to create another revenue stream that Hearts have been missing before. Interestingly Sergey apart from things done in 2-3 years with the stand, he mentioned in 5 years time he wants to see the stadium upgraded as a whole, so obviously the main stand is not the only thing he wants do, personally I think it will be moving the Roseburn stand back to where the school so as to lengthen the stadium (the original main stand plans had the main stand overlapping the Roseburn and the tunnel nearer the Roseburn then on the center line.) It would also mean they would do something with the Wheatfield. Sergei mentioned that they want international football at Tynecastle. While at the momment it is just words, imagine in five years time these things happened, the future would be exciting, we will see what happens in five years time.

That lot are ****ing mental.

In 5 years they want to upgrade the whole stadium .i.e moving stands, etc. Don't they realise in 5 years they won't be here anymore?!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The last page of that thread does mention it, but, a link to something substantial would help, although as stated earlier "Just 'cos It's the first I've heard of it" doesn't mean its not true.

[CropleyWasGod]

The last page of that thread does mention it, but, a link to something substantial would help, although as stated earlier "Just 'cos It's the first I've heard of it" doesn't mean its not true.

Indeed.

If, as has been suggested, we had a similar deal, that would dilute the evidence for saying that the Council "will" help out Hearts, which is what (I think) Ord is suggesting.

[jgl07]

Given the wild allegations that have been posted on this thread I will summarize my recollections:

1. Hearts started the rebuild of Tynecastle with the construction of the Wheatfield Stand. This I think was commissioned under Mercer but was constructed after the Pieman and Leslie Deans took over. In was opened in 1994.

2. The second stand to be built was the Roseburn Stand on the old School End was completed in August 1994 at a cost of £1.4 million. Hearts under Robinson and Deans were struggling to raise the capital to construct the new stand.

3. Lothian Regional Council (convernor Eric Milligan) came up with a rescue plan to agree to rent storage space under the new stand. This was to provide a small income stream to tip the balance and convince the bank to lend Hearts the cash. It was admitted that they did not require the storage space. It was never going to be used as it was simply a ploy to get the banks to loan Hearts the cash.

4. Lothian Regional Council was effectively abolished by the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994, although it carried on until 1996 before its functions were distributed between the following four councils: West Lothian, City of Edinburgh, Midlothian and East Lothian.

5. That effectively destroyed Milligan's power base although he was subsequently elected to the City of Edinburgh Council and became Lord Provost.

6. With the abolition of Lothian Regional Council, the agreement will have lapsed. New agreements would have had to be made with the successor councils. The storage space was never used and the rent was not paid.

7. If the rent had been paid it would have appeared in the accounts of HMFC and Lothian Regional Council (and successors). No-one has produced any evidence of that.

8. Hearts financial problems seemed to be put to one side as in 1997 they demolished the Gorgie End and built a new stand in 1997

[CropleyWasGod]

Given the wild allegations that have been posted on this thread I will summarize my recollections:

1. Hearts started the rebuild of Tynecastle with the construction of the Wheatfield Stand. This I think was commissioned under Mercer but was constructed after the Pieman and Leslie Deans took over. In was opened in 1994.

2. The second stand to be built was the Roseburn Stand on the old School End was completed in August 1994 at a cost of £1.4 million. Hearts under Robinson and Deans were struggling to raise the capital to construct the new stand.

3. Lothian Regional Council (convernor Eric Milligan) came up with a rescue plan to agree to rent storage space under the new stand. This was to provide a small income stream to tip the balance and convince the bank to lend Hearts the cash. It was admitted that they did not require the storage space. It was never going to be used as it was simply a ploy to get the banks to loan Hearts the cash.

4. Lothian Regional Council was effectively abolished by the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994, although it carried on until 1996 before its functions were distributed between the following four councils: West Lothian, City of Edinburgh, Midlothian and East Lothian.

5. That effectively destroyed Milligan's power base although he was subsequently elected to the City of Edinburgh Council and became Lord Provost.

6. With the abolition of Lothian Regional Council, the agreement will have lapsed. New agreements would have had to be made with the successor councils. The storage space was never used and the rent was not paid.

7. If the rent had been paid it would have appeared in the accounts of HMFC and Lothian Regional Council (and successors). No-one has produced any evidence of that.

8. Hearts financial problems seemed to be put to one side as in 1997 they demolished the Gorgie End and built a new stand in 1997

Cheers for that.

Have you got the accounts for 1994-2004, please? :duck:

Seriously, though.... even if the space was rented, you are saying that it wasn't enough to pay for the stand itself. That was funded by the bank. Yeah?

[jgl07]

Cheers for that.

Have you got the accounts for 1994-2004, please? :duck:

Seriously, though.... even if the space was rented, you are saying that it wasn't enough to pay for the stand itself. That was funded by the bank. Yeah?

In order to ammortize the full cost of the stand (£1.2 million) over a ten year rental period (assuming a discount rate of 8%) would require annual payments of 178,835 per annum.

I cannot see even Eric Milligan agreeing to pay over £175,000 per year (in 1995) over ten years for storage space he admitted the council did not require. I have no details on the actual amount that was offered butI suspect it was nominal but it was a show of faith that helped convince the bank. There was uproar on the Hibs List at the time. If the sum agreed was even a fraction of the 'full cost' figure quoted above, it would have got into the real public domain.

Milligan knew that Lothian Regional Council was doomed as Parliament had already voted to abolish two tier local government in Scotland and would have less than six months to live by the time the stand was completed. Milligan also hinted that Lothian might do a similar deal with Hibs for the South Stand. Hibs had no problems borrowing the cash as it was peronally guaranteed by Tom Farmer on a long term mortgage.

Hence the whole thing was a grand gesture that would have no real impact as any attempt to invoke the deal could involve investigations into the original deal by the likes of West Lothian Council. It may have just tipped the balance for Hearts with the bank.

[CropleyWasGod]

In order to ammortize the full cost of the stand (£1.2 million) over a ten year rental period (assuming a discount rate of 8%) would require annual payments of 178,835 per annum.

I cannot see even Eric Milligan agreeing to pay over £175,000 per year (in 1995) over ten years for storage space he admitted the council did not require. I have no details on the actual amount that was offered butI suspect it was nominal but it was a show of faith that helped convince the bank. There was uproar on the Hibs List at the time. If the sum agreed was even a fraction of the 'full cost' figure quoted above, it would have got into the real public domain.

Milligan knew that Lothian Regional Council was doomed as Parliament had already voted to abolish two tier local government in Scotland and would have less than six months to live by the time the stand was completed. Milligan also hinted that Lothian might do a similar deal with Hibs for the South Stand. Hibs had no problems borrowing the cash as it was peronally guaranteed by Tom Farmer on a long term mortgage.

Hence the whole thing was a grand gesture that would have no real impact as any attempt to invoke the deal could involve investigations into the original deal by the likes of West Lothian Council. It may have just tipped the balance for Hearts with the bank.

Ok, over to Ord. :cb

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Nice little 5,000 capacity stadium approved in Stockbridge. At least they could apply to share it when Tynie goes pop.

http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-accies-stockbridge-stadium-plan-approved-1-3022903

[OrdHibby]

In order to ammortize the full cost of the stand (£1.2 million) over a ten year rental period (assuming a discount rate of 8%) would require annual payments of 178,835 per annum.

I cannot see even Eric Milligan agreeing to pay over £175,000 per year (in 1995) over ten years for storage space he admitted the council did not require. I have no details on the actual amount that was offered butI suspect it was nominal but it was a show of faith that helped convince the bank. There was uproar on the Hibs List at the time. If the sum agreed was even a fraction of the 'full cost' figure quoted above, it would have got into the real public domain.

Milligan knew that Lothian Regional Council was doomed as Parliament had already voted to abolish two tier local government in Scotland and would have less than six months to live by the time the stand was completed. Milligan also hinted that Lothian might do a similar deal with Hibs for the South Stand. Hibs had no problems borrowing the cash as it was peronally guaranteed by Tom Farmer on a long term mortgage.

Hence the whole thing was a grand gesture that would have no real impact as any attempt to invoke the deal could involve investigations into the original deal by the likes of West Lothian Council. It may have just tipped the balance for Hearts with the bank.

I can't prove it unfortunately but i still think the council paid the full amount up front. What you have said though tells us even back then they were a credit risk because they were spending money the didn't have.
I would also be interested if you could back up what you have printed as you have said in one post the stand was £1.4M and on the next £1.2 ?
I said it was £1.2M and i'm sticking with it and the fact the council paid for the stand. And my last words are, if i'm wrong and you're right about the council putting themselves forward for hawrts to get the credit, WHY WOULD THE COUNCIL GET INVOLVED WITH A PRIVATE ORGINISATION ? That question has to be asked no matter who is right.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't prove it unfortunately but i still think the council paid the full amount up front. What you have said though tells us even back then they were a credit risk because they were spending money the didn't have.
I would also be interested if you could back up what you have printed as you have said in one post the stand was £1.4M and on the next £1.2 ?
I said it was £1.2M and i'm sticking with it and the fact the council paid for the stand. And my last words are, if i'm wrong and you're right about the council putting themselves forward for hawrts to get the credit, WHY WOULD THE COUNCIL GET INVOLVED WITH A PRIVATE ORGINISATION ? That question has to be asked no matter who is right.

You could, actually.

Like I say, it would be in Hearts accounts for that period. They're in the public domain.

[OrdHibby]

You could, actually.

Like I say, it would be in Hearts accounts for that period. They're in the public domain.

Like the butterfly land dealings ?
We're dealing with institutions here ( thievin' ***** )

[CropleyWasGod]

Like the butterfly land dealings ?
We're dealing with institutions here ( thievin' ***** )

I have no idea whether that is. I do know the Hearts accounts are.

[OrdHibby]

I have no idea whether that is. I do know the Hearts accounts are.

Give them to me then lol

[CropleyWasGod]

Give them to me then lol

You'll have to go to the Companies House website. £1 for each document, so you'll need a tenner. It's easy to do.

[OrdHibby]

You'll have to go to the Companies House website. £1 for each document, so you'll need a tenner. It's easy to do.
:aok:

I'll maybe give it a try.

[Kaff]

No harm in CWG trying to 'tease' the facts out of Ord here but imo he doesn't set himself up as either an accounts based professional nor itk businessman. To be labelling him a yam as quite a few have done doesn't seem fair to me, sure he came up with 'good to be' and that irked a few but his explanation was plausible to me and i'm prepared to accept that he's new to .net and will make mistakes in his use of terms and vocabulary that are normally seized upon to out the unwashed!