Hearts bump HWU for training ground rent (merged)

[Mikey]

Still waititng on the HWU to come back (today is the deadline) - will post when i do.



Nothing back from them yet I take it?

Presumably the person dealing with it at HWU is a yamfud and would rather not give out the uncomfortable truth.

[Crazyhorse]

Nothing back from them yet I take it?

Presumably the person dealing with it at HWU is a yamfud and would rather not give out the uncomfortable truth.

What is the next step when a publicly funded institution refuses to respond to a FOI request within the allotted timeframe?

[RoslinInstHibby]

Nothing back from them yet I take it?

Presumably the person dealing with it at HWU is a yamfud and would rather not give out the uncomfortable truth.

Its right in the middle of the uni's year end.....the director of finance may be a tad busy....

[steviehibsleith]

Its right in the middle of the uni's year end.....the director of finance may be a tad busy....

Its in the middle of the end ...................

[Beefster]

Its right in the middle of the uni's year end.....the director of finance may be a tad busy....

As much as I've defended HWU on this, it doesn't really matter how busy they are. They should be responding to FOI requests within the allowed timescale.

[worcesterhibby]

From official GOV site..

If your FOI request is turned down

Some sensitive information might not be available to members of the public. If this is the case, the organisation must tell you why they have withheld some or all of the information you requested.
An organisation can turn down your request if they think it will cost them more than £450 (£600 for a central government organisation) to deal with your request.
They might then ask you to be more specific so they can provide the information you’re looking for.
If an organisation doesn’t provide you with the information you request, you should first contact them and ask them to review their decision.
If you are still not satisfied, you can complain to the Information Commissioner’s Office. (http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints)http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints (https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/how-you-can-receive-the-information)

http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints/getting

[Liberal Hibby]

From official GOV site..

If your FOI request is turned downSome sensitive information might not be available to members of the public. If this is the case, the organisation must tell you why they have withheld some or all of the information you requested.
An organisation can turn down your request if they think it will cost them more than £450 (£600 for a central government organisation) to deal with your request.
They might then ask you to be more specific so they can provide the information you’re looking for.
If an organisation doesn’t provide you with the information you request, you should first contact them and ask them to review their decision.
If you are still not satisfied, you can complain to the Information Commissioner’s Office. (http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints)http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints (https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/how-you-can-receive-the-information)

You might need to check with the Scottish govt website as the rules are slightly different north of the border.

[worcesterhibby]

You might need to check with the Scottish govt website as the rules are slightly different north of the border.


Good point Mr Liberal Sir...sorry been down here in Sassanach land for so long I forget the different law stuff.....however, believe it or not, Heriot Watt have there very own helpful page about FOI requests (which absolutely proves that FOI does apply to them) including what to do if you don't get a response...

http://www.hw.ac.uk/about/policies/foi.htm

[RoslinInstHibby]

Lets revisit this convo tomorrow:wink:

[Phil MaGlass]

I will be raising this with Heriot-Watt and fellow students, especially if education is cut there next year from this year, within in my area of study or not. I will not let them harm my and others education for the sake of their mismanagement and corruption.

Hopefully not studying to become an English teacher :greengrin

[hibs0666]

Lets revisit this convo tomorrow:wink:

Loving the intrigue here. :thumbsup:

[Hibs07p]

What is the next step when a publicly funded institution refuses to respond to a FOI request within the allotted timeframe?

Scottish Public Services Ombudsman maybe.

GGTTH

[PatHead]

Had an email from a friend who works at HW. He has said he has some juicy gossip for me.........should find out in the pub tonight. The mystery deepens

[Gettin' Auld]

Hopefully not studying to become an English teacher :greengrin

:tee hee:

[Bostonhibby]

Its in the middle of the end ...................

And the debts been around 15 months, plenty time to form a position on it.

[lapsedhibee]

And the debts been around 15 months, plenty time to form a position on it.

:ostrich:

[hibsforeurope]

Will they be getting locked out of HWU as of tomorrow...?

[GreenCastle]

Apologies if discussed already but in 7 days the bid for the National Performance Centre will be presented.

If you look at the link below - Heriot Watt are involved and Hearts are to get grass pitches (plus I'm sure use of a full size 11 v 11 pitch).

While I agree Edinburgh needs better sports facilities the bid smells of yamness....the people backing the bid all being yams..Hastings...Hoy...Stewart..

http://goedinburgh2016.com/location-and-facilities/ (http://goedinburgh2016.com/location-and-facilities/)

[Scott Allan Key]

Hopefully not studying to become an English teacher :greengrin

Hee-hee, :wink:. Textile design, am sure to do some prints related to this beloved club. Watch this space.

[Scònaldò]

Lets revisit this convo tomorrow:wink:




Had an email from a friend who works at HW. He has said he has some juicy gossip for me.........should find out in the pub tonight. The mystery deepens


Spill...

[worcesterhibby]

Apologies if discussed already but in 7 days the bid for the National Performance Centre will be presented.

If you look at the link below - Heriot Watt are involved and Hearts are to get grass pitches (plus I'm sure use of a full size 11 v 11 pitch).

While I agree Edinburgh needs better sports facilities the bid smells of yamness....the people backing the bid all being yams..Hastings...Hoy...Stewart..

http://goedinburgh2016.com/location-and-facilities/ (http://goedinburgh2016.com/location-and-facilities/)

That will be why they have ignored the FOI request. Even if we complain they know the decision will be made before the fact that they were complicit with hearts in letting them use the facilities for free can be picked up as a news story.

Stinks that Hearts will benefit, but I guess it is to the benefit of Edinburgh as a whole.

[hibs0666]

Lets revisit this convo tomorrow:wink:

Spilling the beans? :)

[whereswallace?]

Had an email from a friend who works at HW. He has said he has some juicy gossip for me.........should find out in the pub tonight. The mystery deepens

what was the juicy gossip?

[Bostonhibby]

what was the juicy gossip?

Is it that HWU are part of the same establishment as the Yam and its just not the done thing to use the nasty "debt" word when they talk to each other at their gatherings? Long time not to be paid. Unlikely to be accounted for because generally they don't have to, witness the previous months unpaid and seemingly unpursued.

[lEXO]

Are they still training there? If so that's bizzare

[PatHead]

what was the juicy gossip?

Sorry gossip wasn't Hearts related. (Wasn't really juicy either for that matter). He thinks HW don't like bad press either and will just shut up and hope it goes away. Trust Sydney to be on holiday and not able to write to them. Sorry to build your hopes up but I had commented on the Hearts situation to him in and "gossip" comment had come from him.

[crash]

Good point Mr Liberal Sir...sorry been down here in Sassanach land for so long I forget the different law stuff.....however, believe it or not, Heriot Watt have there very own helpful page about FOI requests (which absolutely proves that FOI does apply to them) including what to do if you don't get a response...

http://www.hw.ac.uk/about/policies/foi.htm

Any word back from Heriot Watts 'FOI and Data Protection Officer' yet on the enquiry which was submitted, if not they are in breach of the law.

[RoslinInstHibby]

The Uni has won the bid for the national sports centre

[truehibernian]

Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

[GreenCastle]

Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

While I am delighted Edinburgh will gain some better sports facilities - which are well over due - if you compare to what Glasgow has right now with Commonwealth games approaching.

I mentioned several posts before that the yams are going to be part of this and have access to all the pitches only having to pay rent - something they don't do as it stands.

They will have access to some of the latest and best facilities around including a full size 11v11 pitch.

While it may not be exclusive to them - its a life saver if they are still around to use it.

I am pretty sure Falkirk use the facilities at Stirling Uni.

[Ozyhibby]

This is very good news for Hearts if they survive as they will have access to some of the best sports science facilities money can buy.
Let's hope they don't survive or if they do they are charged full Market rent for use of the facilities.

[greenpaper55]

There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

[Ozyhibby]

There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

Let's hope that is the case but given that Heriot Watt don't seem to care about collecting rent from them, it's difficult to imagine them not getting preferential treatment.

[07hibee]

I wonder where they'll train while its getting built ?

[GreenCastle]

There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

Did you read the website ?

The yams will be all over this and if I was in there situation or Hibs were needing a place to train so would I.

[Bostonhibby]

Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

I'm with you there, if they can just ignore pursuing the rent debt then there was probably already a pretty cosy understanding / relationship. It doesn't require a huge leap here if you believe that there have been behind the scenes efforts to ensure the yam are to some extent bailed out or propped up by the system whilst still being able to say that it is just a happy coincidence, benefits all etc :blah:

It's coming, acess to similar to what we have paid to build and at very little cost to themselves.

[chrisski33]

Even if yams get use of this it doesnt mean they will be better. We have east mains and we havent improved since having it!

[Ozyhibby]

Even if yams get use of this it doesnt mean they will be better. We have east mains and we havent improved since having it!

But it cost us £5.5m to build and £0.5m a year to maintain. Hearts get Herriot Watt for free.

[blackpoolhibs]

But it cost us £5.5m to build and £0.5m a year to maintain. Hearts get Herriot Watt for free.

We do get to use it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Hearts if they survive, and if they do rent this place when its built, will have it at a price and for 2 or 3 hours a day.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I don't see why Hearts would have any more or less access to this new facility than any other organisation. Sounds like it is being developed into addition what is already onsite at HWU rather than instead of. So if Hearts were to use the new facility at some point in the future they would have to pay the same costs as any other organisation, because they aren't contributing to the development cost (as they did with part of the SMG money to their present facility).

If you think going into a partnership with a uni is a good idea, you should be getting onto Hibs / Petrie and telling them to sell up East Mains and make a deal with (say) QMU.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't see why Hearts would have any more or less access to this new facility than any other organisation. Sounds like it is being developed into addition what is already onsite at HWU rather than instead of. So if Hearts were to use the new facility at some point in the future they would have to pay the same costs as any other organisation, because they aren't contributing to the development cost (as they did with part of the SMG money to their present facility).

If you think going into a partnership with a uni is a good idea, you should be getting onto Hibs / Petrie and telling them to sell up East Mains and make a deal with (say) QMU.

Are the Scottish Government spending £30m on a national performance centre at QMU?
Your right about the other stuff though. Hibs should be able to use this facility the same as any other sporting organisation and so long as we are only charged the same as the yams then it's all good.

[E10 Rifle]

Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

Spot on. Watch David Murray crawl back out the woodwork to support a new stadium for them too.

[clerriehibs]

Are the Scottish Government spending £30m on a national performance centre at QMU?
Your right about the other stuff though. Hibs should be able to use this facility the same as any other sporting organisation and so long as we are only charged the same as the yams then it's all good.

You'd think all equals would have an equal right to access.

But I doubt it.

homfc using the facilities was alluded to in the bid. I don't know the why's or the wherefores, but if homfc's name was used in the bid, they'll be getting preferential treatment in some shape or form.

[Keith_M]

If this is what it's going to be like in an Independent Scotland, then I'm out!


:grr:
















Disclaimer: I've already moved abroad so no intention to physically move anywhere else is implied :wink:

[Geo_1875]

HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.

[chrisski33]

HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.

The yams wont get priority use of the facility I can assure u

[Geo_1875]

The yams wont get priority use of the facility I can assure u

Don't be surprised if the Council get agreement on that. There will be many strings attached to the funding, both from central and local government. The other thing is that Sports Scotland (a centrally funded government body) will manage the facility which will remain in the ownership of Heriot Watt University. The university sports centre and their tenants will continue to operate as before in the shiny new facilities.

[greenginger]

HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.


By not paying their rent or whatever it was classed as they have broke the terms of their agreement and should have no claim for access whatsoever.

If they are to get use of the facilities it has to be under a completely new agreement.

Come to think about it, may'be the Heriot Watt have played them by not demanding the payments due. How else would they have got rid of a bunch of undesirable cretins with a long lease !

[StevieC]

Is it really that big an issue if Hearts do get access to use the facilities?

They might better facilities by the time it's completed but will it really be a huge coup for them? They have used HWU for a number of years now and there's been very little said about it.

Okay there'll be more pitches, and one of those might be indoors, but how many pitches can you train on at a time, and will it make a huge difference to the team? Players are normally only in for a couple of hours, four times a week, so how much of an advantage will it really be?

[ahibby]

If this is what it's going to be like in an Independent Scotland, then I'm out!


:grr:sclaimer: I've already moved abroad so no intention to physically move anywhere else is implied :wink:

Me too. It's a total stitch up. The best location for Scotland would have been central and so Stirling should have been a stick on. The decision stinks.

[Kato]

The yams wont get priority use of the facility I can assure u

What specific assurances can you tell us about?

[ahibby]

Is it really that big an issue if Hearts do get access to use the facilities?

They might better facilities by the time it's completed but will it really be a huge coup for them? They have used HWU for a number of years now and there's been very little said about it.

Okay there'll be more pitches, and one of those might be indoors, but how many pitches can you train on at a time, and will it make a huge difference to the team? Players are normally only in for a couple of hours, four times a week, so how much of an advantage will it really be?

You have a point but to build it so close to one of Scotlands top tier clubs and allow them access to it when the other clubs won't get the same privileges and as it is being paid for by the tax payer in general, is fundamentally wrong IMO. We invested how much £4.5 million on a training centre when we were in Hearts position re HW we could have used that money or most of it to build a team. Maybe we should request the use of HW in the same way as Hearts just to be awkward, the outcome of any Hibs request would be interesting, how about Livi join in too?

[linlithgowhibbie]

Me too. It's a total stitch up. The best location for Scotland would have been central and so Stirling should have been a stick on. The decision stinks.
Sorry but whats it to do with an Independent Scotland? This decision has been made whilst we are still part of the Union. How can you blame a possible Independence for it???

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Remarkable that Gary Cock just on STV news saying the yams will be a part of it, can't you pay them what you F@@@@@g well owe them first!

Unbelievable arrogance!

[CropleyWasGod]

Remarkable that Gary Cock just on STV news saying the yams will be a part of it, can't you pay them what you F@@@@@g well owe them first!

Unbelievable arrogance!

It's not a football debt, so they won't be paying them a penny, unfortunately.

[silverhibee]

Remarkable that Gary Cock just on STV news saying the yams will be a part of it, can't you pay them what you F@@@@@g well owe them first!

Unbelievable arrogance!


The woman who spoke on behalf of the university is obviously a yam as well, her words were, "the big team have been working hard". :rolleyes::greengrin

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

It's not a football debt, so they won't be paying them a penny, unfortunately.

HW must thrive on throwing big money away then Crops, what a shower of silly fools there are.

[chrisski33]

What specific assurances can you tell us about?

Well folk seem to think they will automatically get use of it.

[greenginger]

In any other business if you don't pay your rent for 18 months your tenancy is ended.

[Moon unit]

Just knew that The Brassneckers would float above the **** pile again on this one!..

[Kato]

Well folk seem to think they will automatically get use of it.

I'm still not feeling assured.

[Bishop Hibee]

As long as whatever manifestation of Hertz is about when this is built pays a fair market rent then fine.

While this is good for Edinburgh, I can"t understand why it wasn't built at Stirling which has been the de facto centre.

[Bostonhibby]

Well folk seem to think they will automatically get use of it.

:hmmm: Let me see now, its Edinburgh, there's city council money involved, and its the yam who HWU didn't exactly chase for the money before, that should ensure automatic use.

Two of the parties involved have recently been bumped for tens of thousands that they did F all about pursuing. Why would they be any less benevolent this time?

If HWU and the Council were private sector businesses they would be very unlikely to welcome back anyone who has stung them for such huge sums, but its not really their money so why give a damn, the greater aim is to continue propping up the yam at the expense of whoever funds it. Watch this space I guess.

[GREEN WARLORD]

As long as whatever manifestation of Hertz is about when this is built pays a fair market rent then fine.

While this is good for Edinburgh, I can"t understand why it wasn't built at Stirling which has been the de facto centre.

Maybe the bid they put together was crap? :dunno:

[fatbloke]

But it cost us £5.5m to build and £0.5m a year to maintain. Hearts get Herriot Watt for free.

Don't think it cost that much.

[Criswell]

Reading some of their comments would have you believe this compex is being built solely for their benefit. Won't be long before it's being referred to as "Our World-Class Training Facility" no doubt. Re Riccarton, weren't they suppose to share the funding with HW and then welched on the deal, instead only paying (or not as it turned out!) rent?

Also, they always like to make snidey comments regarding East Mains, totally missing the point that we OWN a substantial piece of land, which appears in our accounts as an ASSET. We have assets, this bunch of spongers have only liabilities, which of course they have no intention of ever meeting.

[Part/Time Supporter]

As long as whatever manifestation of Hertz is about when this is built pays a fair market rent then fine.

While this is good for Edinburgh, I can"t understand why it wasn't built at Stirling which has been the de facto centre.

From reading some of the quotes in response to this, it looks like the new facility will mainly be a base for the national teams. HWU's proximity to Murrayfield will have helped it with the rugby lot. I think at present the pro rugby teams (Edinburgh and Scotland) do most of their training on the back pitches at Murrayfield and don't have any dedicated facilities as such.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/09/12/scottish-rugby-welcomes-national-sport-performance-centre-announcement

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/sru-confirms-car-ban-on-back-pitches-to-continue-1-1136283

But if everyone wants to see this as part of the global pro-Hearts conspiracy, rock on...

[Mibbes Aye]

Lot of fuss about nothing.

It's not 3G pitches and the like that HOMFC need to train on.

What they need is replica florist shops and replica outlets of Oxfam, Save the Children and PDSA.

Then they can truly develop and maintain their status as world-class poppy fund thieves and charity thieves.

After all, that's what their shameful club is all about.

HOMFC - no class, but worse than that, no shame :agree:

[GREEN WARLORD]

Hopefully the Skints will be long dead before the first digger hits HWU soil. :greengrin

[clerriehibs]

From reading some of the quotes in response to this, it looks like the new facility will mainly be a base for the national teams. HWU's proximity to Murrayfield will have helped it with the rugby lot. I think at present the pro rugby teams (Edinburgh and Scotland) do most of their training on the back pitches at Murrayfield and don't have any dedicated facilities as such.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/09/12/scottish-rugby-welcomes-national-sport-performance-centre-announcement

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/sru-confirms-car-ban-on-back-pitches-to-continue-1-1136283

But if everyone wants to see this as part of the global pro-Hearts conspiracy, rock on...

That's a lot of fitba pitches for the rugby to be training on ...

In saying that, I don't think it's a conspiracy to help homofc. However, they will make the most of it in their life's a freebie, manky, stringy, cling-on modus operandi.

[MB62]

If the Yams are granted use of this facility, at a rental cost up front, IF they are still around in 2016, what's to stop Hibs selling East Mains and taking up the same option as them? The facility looks as though it is going to be big enough to accommodate both.

[sadtom]

Was speaking to a pal of a pal who has been working on the HW bid (architect i think) he informed me a representative (often a minion) from hertz has been sitting in on all the meetings to do with the bid (he has no idea why either).

He said that all the councillors involved are yams and that the next step, if HW are succesfull, will be another attempted sell off of meadowbank. - No need for those east Embra types to have decent facilities (a la Leith Waterworld). I mentioned to him about the new 4g surface at m'bank and said i'm surprised it was given the go ahead if this was their intention. He said in the grand scheme of things given the size of potential investment with the new centre and that the m'bank surface is 'moveable', that it was small beer in comparison.

He also stated that HW bosses have not pursued hertz for monies due (prior to administration) as they do not want to pi** off the yam dominated council. They didn't just suddenly arrive at that level of debt on the day they entered administration. It built up over a period of time and the point the guy made to me was that even although HW could see the debt rising and also see that there was trouble brewing down gorgie (just as we could), they would not make demands for the monies due or threaten their tenure as they didn't want to put the yam councillors noses out of joint, especially with this bid on the horizon.

For what its worth, the guy i spoke to (this was about 3 weeks ago) did not think HW would be successful, even though it was massively in his interest for it to be so. He thought it would go to Stirling.

I smell a rat. A huge muckle one.

p.s. the bloke i spoke to also believes the debt is significantly higher than had been officially stated. (he thought nearer 400k). Perhaps HW already wrote some of it off. I myself have no idea if it is the case or not.

[greenginger]

has it ever been confirmed (or even asked ) if HOMFC in Administration are now paying the dues for current use of the facilities ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

has it ever been confirmed (or even asked ) if HOMFC in Administration are now paying the dues for current use of the facilities ?

No, subject to them reaching a new agreement with HWU.

This story was about a week after they went bust.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-crisis-heriot-watt-uni-praised-1990566


The Jambos have used the sports campus at Riccarton for training since 2004 and have 16 years left on an agreed lease of the facility. But with the Tynecastle club in administration Heriot-Watt are now just another creditor and may well have to write off the bulk of the money due. The Edinburgh uni could have refused Hearts’ players entry on Thursday when the squad start pre-season training. But instead they’ll let the club continue to train at Riccarton – at least until they reach some sort of agreement with administrators BDO on the future of the lease.

Administrator Bryan Jackson says it’s a fantastic gesture by Heriot-Watt and welcomed their understanding of Hearts’ plight.

He said: “Heriot-Watt are now one of the creditors but they’re happy for the team to continue training there until we agree something going forward or otherwise. The university have been good to deal with so far. They want to try to support the club and it’s a great gesture from them to allow the team to train there.

Some creditors take the hump when they’re owed money from a company in administration. But I think they have a bit of sympathy with the football club. They’ve been sensible and they haven’t panicked. They are speaking to us so hopefully we can sort something out. Hearts have a long-term lease with Heriot Watt and it’s expensive for the club. We have made initial contact with them and are negotiating with them.”

[Keith_M]

Sorry but whats it to do with an Independent Scotland? This decision has been made whilst we are still part of the Union. How can you blame a possible Independence for it???



Absolutely nothing, just like the comments on other threads along the same lines.

I don't know about him, but my post was taking the p*ss.

[AndyM_1875]

Was speaking to a pal of a pal who has been working on the HW bid (architect i think) he informed me a representative (often a minion) from hertz has been sitting in on all the meetings to do with the bid (he has no idea why either).
He said that all the councillors involved are yams and that the next step, if HW are succesfull, will be another attempted sell off of meadowbank. - No need for those east Embra types to have decent facilities (a la Leith Waterworld).
He also stated that HW bosses have not pursued hertz for monies due (prior to administration) as they do not want to pi** off the yam dominated council.
I smell a rat. A huge muckle one.

You are on to something there Tom.

I have also heard from a couple of decent sources that the yam Cooncil's intention (as they don't have any spare cash) was always to sell Meadowbank to developers and use the money raised to build the Council Stadium (Tenants - Hearts and Edinburgh Rugby). If this comes to pass they'll get a stadium built for them for no investment, no doubt paying a peppercorn rental) and they'll get use of HW for Training their cloggers.

Whether they are a Newco Hearts or the current club having successfully shed its debt via a CVA is irrelevant here. We have run our club properly, paying our bills as we go, building our stadium and no thanks to Edinburgh Council building our Training Centre. They have run up toxic debt levels, ended up in Administration, stiffed Creditors and cheated.

This if it comes to pass should have Rod & Sir Tom spitting feathers and backs up the long held belief at Easter Road that there is outright bias and no suggestion of even handedness from the Council.

[Pete]

Was speaking to a pal of a pal who has been working on the HW bid (architect i think) he informed me a representative (often a minion) from hertz has been sitting in on all the meetings to do with the bid (he has no idea why either).

He said that all the councillors involved are yams and that the next step, if HW are succesfull, will be another attempted sell off of meadowbank. - No need for those east Embra types to have decent facilities (a la Leith Waterworld). I mentioned to him about the new 4g surface at m'bank and said i'm surprised it was given the go ahead if this was their intention. He said in the grand scheme of things given the size of potential investment with the new centre and that the m'bank surface is 'moveable', that it was small beer in comparison.

He also stated that HW bosses have not pursued hertz for monies due (prior to administration) as they do not want to pi** off the yam dominated council. They didn't just suddenly arrive at that level of debt on the day they entered administration. It built up over a period of time and the point the guy made to me was that even although HW could see the debt rising and also see that there was trouble brewing down gorgie (just as we could), they would not make demands for the monies due or threaten their tenure as they didn't want to put the yam councillors noses out of joint, especially with this bid on the horizon.

For what its worth, the guy i spoke to (this was about 3 weeks ago) did not think HW would be successful, even though it was massively in his interest for it to be so. He thought it would go to Stirling.

I smell a rat. A huge muckle one.

p.s. the bloke i spoke to also believes the debt is significantly higher than had been officially stated. (he thought nearer 400k). Perhaps HW already wrote some of it off. I myself have no idea if it is the case or not.

I can understand hearts having some representation at meetings. They've been used in the bid to demonstrate how Herriot Watt can work in tandem with a professional sports team so perhaps their input has been helpful. It's also becoming evident why HW have taken a softly softly approach when it came to hearts rent. The council probably felt any falling out would derail the bid and I quite believe they asked HW to "look at the long term". It was probably less to do with personal allegiances and more to do with ensuring the bid was solid.

The building of this centre might actually increase the possibility of this "garden district" project going ahead. It sounds a lot more appealing for private developers and the council would probably jump at the chance if money weren't an issue (they like big projects). However, money is an issue.
It's also some leap from putting energies into something that will benefit the city as a whole, such as the national sports centre, to putting their weight behind this Ratho development. This time they will be pissing a lot of people off and there will no doubt be an uproar should meadowbank be sacrificed. Riccarton might strengthen the argument but there's a long way to go before any sort of Stadium is tailor made for the Fritzls.

They might be jumping for joy over the road about this national sports centre but I'd actually feel more aggrieved if it was simply HW upgrading their centre significantly without help from central government. Hearts would have exclusive use of these new facilities but with the new National centre they certainly won't. The existing facility they use at HW might get a lick of paint and improved slightly but that's about it. Of course hearts will benefit from this project but its worth remembering that they already have use of pretty good facilities under the terms of their lease so they won't gain that much in real terms.
I'm also sure the SFA and SPFL will take a dim view should hearts start getting too integrated with this national sports centre once it is up and running. It's a centrally funded centre to help the whole of Scotland and I'm sure equality when it comes to its use will be part of its fabric. It simply can't be allowed to help one professional sporting team gain advantages over any other and I trust all the relevant authorities and boards from other sports clubs are will become aware of this potential situation. It would make a mockery of the whole thing and I'm sure sports teams including those from Fife and the central belt will be allowed exactly the same access as hearts and systems will be in place to ensure this happens.

This is all assuming hearts will be around in 2016.:greengrin

[ancient hibee]

I suspect the story of a hearts minion sitting in is a complete windup.BDO run Hearts until its future is settled.There is nobody currently at Hearts who can make any statement on their behalf or any committment for the future.

[green day]

Dearie me, if the bid had gone to stirling or wherever, then the jambo 12 year olds would still be training at riccarton - just the standard facilities they have at 'their' 'academy'.

That they have an agreement with HW is not in doubt - what lots of (IMO) silly people assume is that a central government funded world class facility will simply be handed on a plate to the jambos - and why? because the cooncil gave 10% of the cost?

I dinnae think so - look at the sportscotland site - no mention of partnerships with the maroon buffoons.

So, whatever conspiracy theorists think, HW still have a long term lease with them, its worth money to HW - who are presuming that they will get paid this time, and whatever happens to the new facility, if it is that magic, then the jambos will be competing with every pro and semi pro team in east central scotland for facilities - esp in winter - so it will be even worse than what they already have.

chill winston

[fatbloke]

You are on to something there Tom.

I have also heard from a couple of decent sources that the yam Cooncil's intention (as they don't have any spare cash) was always to sell Meadowbank to developers and use the money raised to build the Council Stadium (Tenants - Hearts and Edinburgh Rugby). If this comes to pass they'll get a stadium built for them for no investment, no doubt paying a peppercorn rental) and they'll get use of HW for Training their cloggers.

Whether they are a Newco Hearts or the current club having successfully shed its debt via a CVA is irrelevant here. We have run our club properly, paying our bills as we go, building our stadium and no thanks to Edinburgh Council building our Training Centre. They have run up toxic debt levels, ended up in Administration, stiffed Creditors and cheated.

This if it comes to pass should have Rod & Sir Tom spitting feathers and backs up the long held belief at Easter Road that there is outright bias and no suggestion of even handedness from the Council.

Allegedly CEC have a huge Anti Catholic and Anti Hibernian outlook.

[Biggie]

What's the chances of this....Alex salmond promised HWU would get the world class centre in return for hwu not chasing the yams debt.....

[Pete]

It's all turning a bit celticish.

[Golden Bear]

It's all turning a bit celticish.

Maybe so but the whole saga stinks from top to bottom and there's a story in there for any investigative journalist worth his salt.

It won't happen though and that is the really sad bit.

[Iggy Pope]

This world class centre. Is it likely to be complete 10 years late and about 50 squillion over budget like two other notable Edinburgh landmark projects?

[Spike Mandela]

It's all turning a bit celticish.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't talking about you.

[Pete]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't talking about you.

That's fine. As long as the hearts minions don't come after me...

[Kato]

It's all turning a bit celticish.

Maybe so. As Spike says above paranoia doesn't preclude the idea that bias exists.

Maybe you could list points of even-handedness in the dealings between Hibs, Hearts and our City's leaders.

[Pete]

Maybe so. As Spike says above paranoia doesn't preclude the idea that bias exists.

Maybe you could list points of even-handedness in the dealings between Hibs, Hearts and our City's leaders.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I agree that there is an engrained culture of bias towards hearts within the council. It was a response made in jest to other posts (probably made in jest) suggesting anti-catholic bias and dodgy deals involving big Eck. That's a bit much in my opinion.

You'd be a fool not to look at all this, especially with the personnel involved, and wonder if anything fishy is going on. These things can snowball though and before you know it people are believing all sorts of cloak and dagger stuff is going on when it probably isn't.

We'll have to wait and see what happens now regarding a new fritzl dome, meadowbank and what councillors/politicians are throwing their weight behind it.

[Kato]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I agree that there is an engrained culture of bias towards hearts within the council. It was a response made in jest to other posts (probably made in jest) suggesting anti-catholic bias and dodgy deals involving big Eck. That's a bit much in my opinion.

You'd be a fool not to look at all this, especially with the personnel involved, and wonder if anything fishy is going on. These things can snowball though and before you know it people are believing all sorts of cloak and dagger stuff is going on when it probably isn't.

We'll have to wait and see what happens now regarding a new fritzl dome, meadowbank and what councillors/politicians are throwing their weight behind it.

:aok:

[Spike Mandela]

BDO considering moving away from Riccarton training ground according to Radio Scotland.

HWU 'playing hardball' aparently by wanting Hearts to honour a contract. Beggars belief!

[Oscar T Grouch]

So BDO saying the merricks might be leaving riccarton, cannae afford the costs.

Porty beach then?:greengrin

[gogsy23]

As above costs around 400/500k per year bdo looking to negociate on this but hwu playing hard ball.

Dont panic folks the end is neigh......

[s.a.m]

As above costs around 400/500k per year bdo looking to negociate on this but hwu playing hard ball.

Dont panic folks the end is neigh......

10973

[Bostonhibby]

So BDO saying the merricks might be leaving riccarton, cannae afford the costs.

Porty beach then?:greengrin

Cannae see it, there's a thread on one of the Porty websites where they are already up in arms about there being so many turds on the beach.

[kaimendhibs]

Cannae see it, there's a thread on one of the Porty websites where they are already up in arms about there being so many turds on the beach.

Ha ha


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

[Oscar T Grouch]

Cannae see it, there's a thread on one of the Porty websites where they are already up in arms about there being so many turds on the beach.

:faf:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Having glanced at their respective thread on JKB, they show no sign of any compassion for those they have shafted. It's a get it right up the hobos fest. But then, I wouldn't expect any less from a group of fans who show no remorse for their club systematically ripping off charities left, right and centre and delivering cringeworthy tales of one upmanship on winning a war when they rob and steal from the poppy fund that supports it. They're quite disgusting as a club and as a set of fans.

No wonder they're labelled mini-huns.

[07hibee]

So BDO saying the merricks might be leaving riccarton, cannae afford the costs.

Porty beach then?:greengrin

Pleasing ! Lol

[greenpaper55]

Canny afford it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24092299

[portycabbage]

So BDO saying the merricks might be leaving riccarton, cannae afford the costs.

Porty beach then?:greengrin

What the f***'s wrong with saughton park then!?! Or if it has to be down this end of town there's the dump or the sewage works at seafield!

[clerriehibs]

Canny afford it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24092299

It's just BDO setting out a negotiating position. Sounds like they're currently still paying nowt though.

[Jack]

It's just BDO setting out a negotiating position. Sounds like they're currently still paying nowt though.

I doubt it. There was a lot of chat early doors about BDO securing important suppliers I would suspect HW to be one of them. I really dont think having already been shafted they'd roll over at let it continue.

[PatHead]

BDO considering moving away from Riccarton training ground according to Radio Scotland.

HWU 'playing hardball' aparently by wanting Hearts to honour a contract. Beggars belief!

Funnily enough I heard that yesterday and that they were moving to Spartans for a nominal rent and a friendly with the Hearts first team. Dismissed it as mischief making at the time. HW had got fed up with bad press and actually now did want paid. Take it this is BDO trying to cut costs further or get the New Hearts ready for their new stadium:greengrin On a slightly different topic who paid for the Spartans ground/set up?

[Waxy]

Funnily enough I heard that yesterday and that they were moving to Spartans for a nominal rent and a friendly with the Hearts first team. Dismissed it as mischief making at the time. HW had got fed up with bad press and actually now did want paid. Take it this is BDO trying to cut costs further or get the New Hearts ready for their new stadium:greengrin On a slightly different topic who paid for the Spartans ground/set up?They wont like training in north Edinburgh.

[Seveno]

Funnily enough I heard that yesterday and that they were moving to Spartans for a nominal rent and a friendly with the Hearts first team. Dismissed it as mischief making at the time. HW had got fed up with bad press and actually now did want paid. Take it this is BDO trying to cut costs further or get the New Hearts ready for their new stadium:greengrin On a slightly different topic who paid for the Spartans ground/set up?

Last season, they used Spartans ground for a while for training but couldn't afford to pay them. They offered a friendly at Spartans instead with all gate money going to Spartans. The match was played towards the end of the season.

[The Tubs]

Canny afford it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24092299

If they've been spending 400k per annum on the rent over 10 years, then East Mains sounds a good deal. That's what a good credit rating does for you.

[jgl07]

£150k is a lot of money for a University to be losing that is for sure. It would be interesting to know the terms of this debt and for how long they have not been paying it.

It is not really losing money because if Hearts had gone bust years ago they would have received bugger all. If Heriot-Watt evicted Hearts once they failed to pay it would have produced no more money.

It would only have been lost if there was someone else to whom the facilities could be rented to. Hibs are hardly likely to want to rent the place, neither are the SRU. So it was either Hearts or no-one.

Hearts' rent was effectively windfall income for Heriot-Watt some of which never materialized.

[greenginger]

It is not really losing money because if Hearts had gone bust years ago they would have received bugger all. If Heriot-Watt evicted Hearts once they failed to pay it would have produced no more money.

It would only have been lost if there was someone else to whom the facilities could be rented to. Hibs are hardly likely to want to rent the place, neither are the SRU. So it was either Hearts or no-one.

Hearts' rent was effectively windfall income for Heriot-Watt some of which never materialized.

Yeah, but it still cost H W. for the lecky for lights, hot water and the the cleaning after that manky mob .

[s.a.m]

It is not really losing money because if Hearts had gone bust years ago they would have received bugger all. If Heriot-Watt evicted Hearts once they failed to pay it would have produced no more money.

It would only have been lost if there was someone else to whom the facilities could be rented to. Hibs are hardly likely to want to rent the place, neither are the SRU. So it was either Hearts or no-one.

Hearts' rent was effectively windfall income for Heriot-Watt some of which never materialized.

I may well be wrong, but were Hearts not meant to joint builders and owners of the facility, but they eventually couldn't afford to do that. The rent is in lieu of their share of the development :dunno:

[cocopops1875]

If they've been spending 400k per annum on the rent over 10 years, then East Mains sounds a good deal. That's what a good credit rating does for you.

Just out of interest how do you arrive at this conclusion ? We paid whatever to build EM then a running cost of more than hearts pay rent so we are not exactly getting a great deal in comparison

[007 Mickey Weir]

But we do own the complex and land that has value.

[cocopops1875]

But we do own the complex and land that has value.

Does it ? Apparently can't be used for housing so unless someone is looking for a training center or farm it won't be worth more than we paid for the land, we have then paid x amount to lay pitches, convert buildings and the like

[green day]

Does it ? Apparently can't be used for housing so unless someone is looking for a training center or farm it won't be worth more than we paid for the land, we have then paid x amount to lay pitches, convert buildings and the like

There is also intangible value in owning your own centre - not sure how old you are, but can you remember when hibs (and most clubs) were training at the jack kane, saughton, sighthill - pretty much wherever was 'available' - its not exactly professional. I know we might say 'we have not had the benefit' but who can say how dire we would be without it !

And on a day like today, whats the training going to be like at spartans / saughton for the jambos once they actually start 'living within their means'? Lets never forget that the £0.4M that they have 'paid' annually for HWU facilities was still money they did not have and couldnt afford - similar to the players they bankrolled, it was all on the never never.

Hibs are unique outside the Old Firm in having these facilities.

[greenginger]

Does it ? Apparently can't be used for housing so unless someone is looking for a training center or farm it won't be worth more than we paid for the land, we have then paid x amount to lay pitches, convert buildings and the like

I seem to remember something about there being a few acres of extra land at East Mains that is not required for the sports centre.
It was suggested a change to housing use may be possible in future. Remember, its not Edinburgh Council we would have to apply to for planning permission.

[Jack]

Just out of interest how do you arrive at this conclusion ? We paid whatever to build EM then a running cost of more than hearts pay rent so we are not exactly getting a great deal in comparison

I was just wondering the other day how much it costs us to run EM and was going to ask at the AGM. Do you know?

[cocopops1875]

There is also intangible value in owning your own centre - not sure how old you are, but can you remember when hibs (and most clubs) were training at the jack kane, saughton, sighthill - pretty much wherever was 'available' - its not exactly professional. I know we might say 'we have not had the benefit' but who can say how dire we would be without it !

And on a day like today, whats the training going to be like at spartans / saughton for the jambos once they actually start 'living within their means'? Lets never forget that the £0.4M that they have 'paid' annually for HWU facilities was still money they did not have and couldnt afford - similar to the players they bankrolled, it was all on the never never.

Hibs are unique outside the Old Firm in having these facilities.
On my phone so will take your points one at a time.
I'm not an east mains basher ( if you look through my previous posts on the subject you will see I'm a huge supporter of us having it ) I was only taking exception to the suggestion that having spent £5 million we were not in essence wasting 400k per year like hearts, we are however still spending that and a wee bit more per year on our 5mil "investment". Urban myths and Hibs.net say it enough and it becomes FACT

[cocopops1875]

I seem to remember something about there being a few acres of extra land at East Mains that is not required for the sports centre.
It was suggested a change to housing use may be possible in future. Remember, its not Edinburgh Council we would have to apply to for planning permission.
Have you had many dealings with East Lothian Council ? 😃 But yes I have heard this also and if that's the case then great and another fine bit of business by rod

[Kaiser1962]

I may well be wrong, but were Hearts not meant to joint builders and owners of the facility, but they eventually couldn't afford to do that. The rent is in lieu of their share of the development :dunno:

Dont have the exact figures to hand but the short answer is yes. Under Robinson Hearts agreed to meet part of the costs of development of the facility (around £2m from memory) but did not pay when due as they were broke. HW eventually picked up the shortfall with the rest coming from government agencies (I recall Scottish Council for Sport who used lottery money) Hearts renegotiated and ended up with a long term agreement to use the centre but, as we know, they have rogered them for that as well.

For HW to be bumped once by Hearts is unfortunate and twice is really quite careless, are they going to give them the opportunity for a third?

[cocopops1875]

I was just wondering the other day how much it costs us to run EM and was going to ask at the AGM. Do you know?

There were all sorts of figures getting banded about 250k to 1million but someone posted a quote from an AGM or the like a while back at £500k now that will have been trimmed to the bare bones in the last 18months like everything at Hibs to give the manager a budget so could be a good bit lower now

[green day]

On my phone so will take your points one at a time.
I'm not an east mains basher ( if you look through my previous posts on the subject you will see I'm a huge supporter of us having it ) I was only taking exception to the suggestion that having spent £5 million we were not in essence wasting 400k per year like hearts, we are however still spending that and a wee bit more per year on our 5mil "investment". Urban myths and Hibs.net say it enough and it becomes FACT

I actually dont know what it costs us, but even if the costs are similar to HWU its like asking if you would rather pay £600 month flat rent or £600 on mortgage for your flat - its a no brainer in that world and a no brainer in the training centre one too in my opinion.

[Spike Mandela]

I see Robbo was giving it the old administration mantra of "something is better than nothing" In other words it's better for HWU to have Hearts in using their facilities for a pittance than nobody at all.

Clearly this is a negotiating position from Hearts/BDO to hold HWU to ransom but surely the fact that the National Performance for sport centre is to be built there would suggest they aren't dependant on Hearts being there at any price.

Hearts just seem to think they have a god given right for things even though they don't pay for them.

[Caversham Green]

Dont have the exact figures to hand but the short answer is yes. Under Robinson Hearts agreed to meet part of the costs of development of the facility (around £2m from memory) but did not pay when due as they were broke. HW eventually picked up the shortfall with the rest coming from government agencies (I recall Scottish Council for Sport who used lottery money) Hearts renegotiated and ended up with a long term agreement to use the centre but, as we know, they have rogered them for that as well.

For HW to be bumped once by Hearts is unfortunate and twice is really quite careless, are they going to give them the opportunity for a third?

HoMFC have an asset called 'Leasehold property' in their balance sheet at an original cost of £2.5m. That suggests that they did actually pay a lease premium of that amount at the outset. Their problem is that they can't sell it and they would have nothing at the end of the lease term. As green day says, it's the difference between rent and a mortgage.

[cocopops1875]

I actually dont know what it costs us, but even if the costs are similar to HWU its like asking if you would rather pay £600 month flat rent or £600 on mortgage for your flat - its a no brainer in that world and a no brainer in the training centre one too in my opinion.

I Don't really think its the same thing as its not 500k rent v 500k mortgage as we have already bought the house outright, lets not kid ourselves that east mains is massively better than HWU pound for pound.
The difference is we have unlimited unrestricted use of ours so all our teams train there.
As I said earlier I'm pro east mains

[Billy Whizz]

If the Hearts under 10's to 18's were to train somewhere else, the cost would be huge. Also wondering where they would get all these block bookings in the Edinburgh area

[StevieC]

I see Robbo was giving it the old administration mantra of "something is better than nothing" In other words it's better for HWU to have Hearts in using their facilities for a pittance than nobody at all.

I would guess that the National Performance Centre will be attracting a fair bit of new business for the facilities, so I doubt it will be "nobody at all". It might actually suit HWU to have Hearts cancel their agreement so they can negotiate better rates (either with NewYamCo or another sporting organisation) for use of the improved facilities.

[cocopops1875]

If the Hearts under 10's to 18's were to train somewhere else, the cost would be huge. Also wondering where they would get all these block bookings in the Edinburgh area

I assume they don't train at HWU just now though Billy ?

[Onion]

I see Robbo was giving it the old administration mantra of "something is better than nothing" In other words it's better for HWU to have Hearts in using their facilities for a pittance than nobody at all.

Clearly this is a negotiating position from Hearts/BDO to hold HWU to ransom but surely the fact that the National Performance for sport centre is to be built there would suggest they aren't dependant on Hearts being there at any price.

Hearts just seem to think they have a god given right for things even though they don't pay for them.

We'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for Hearts. Forever in their debt :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

I assume they don't train at HWU just now though Billy ?

Yes they do, practically every night of the week. I play on a Wednesday and they were there last week

[Kaiser1962]

HoMFC have an asset called 'Leasehold property' in their balance sheet at an original cost of £2.5m. That suggests that they did actually pay a lease premium of that amount at the outset. Their problem is that they can't sell it and they would have nothing at the end of the lease term. As green day says, it's the difference between rent and a mortgage.

I am trying to find the information I had about this and that at the Robinson/Vlad negotiations they withdrew from the initial agreement and instead went to a 25 year lease. I could be wrong.

[steviehibsleith]

I think HWU have won the bid for sporting excellence and now can bump the yams or at least play hardball with rent. The government are funding it for astart to allready huge investment and cashflow. HWU suddenly becomes one of the best sporting degree Unis and profile is raised so they win. The 11aside indoor facility will be a massive draw for all football and rug y clubs to use during our winter months. Basically HWU are better off without the delude non paying bottom of the league roasters

[StevieC]

I am trying to find the information I had about this and that at the Robinson/Vlad negotiations they withdrew from the initial agreement and instead went to a 25 year lease. I could be wrong.

That was my understanding of it.

Initially it was meant to be shared costs for the building of the facilities but Hearts pulled out of this (skint?) and negotiated a long term lease instead.

[cocopops1875]

Yes they do, practically every night of the week. I play on a Wednesday and they were there last week

They actually get a not bad deal all in then (I work at HWU as a contractor) I see the 1st team and u20s training there but always assumed the young uns had other arrangements as the Uni must have a need for the facilities.
As I said earlier I'm all for us having our own place and having been out there to play and also did the tour when it opened can say its first class, just saying even if they were paying what they are due we are paying the same for not massively different facilities, In fact the indoor area they have use of is a huge step up from what we have. They have offices, their own changing and roughly 8 pitches one of which is all weather, great gym and other social sports like squash. Dunno what they do for eating and laundry which we have on site but my point is pound for pound they have a not bad deal (if they were actually paying for it)

[Billy Whizz]

They actually get a not bad deal all in then (I work at HWU as a contractor) I see the 1st team and u20s training there but always assumed the young uns had other arrangements as the Uni must have a need for the facilities.
As I said earlier I'm all for us having our own place and having been out there to play and also did the tour when it opened can say its first class, just saying even if they were paying what they are due we are paying the same for not massively different facilities, In fact the indoor area they have use of is a huge step up from what we have. They have offices, their own changing and roughly 8 pitches one of which is all weather, great gym and other social sports like squash. Dunno what they do for eating and laundry which we have on site but my point is pound for pound they have a not bad deal (if they were actually paying for it)

They are on 6pm to 8pm

[Hibrandenburg]

We'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for Hearts. Forever in their debt :greengrin

Hate to bring this up but we are. English is a Germanic language.

[Ozyhibby]

If Hearts were to be kicked out of HW, what would people think of Hibs taking up the tennancy?
While East Mains is a terrific Facility, HW is about to become one of the best in Europe. It also has far better transport links which is important for youth players.
I spoke to a coach from Bathgate last week who was telling me he has two kids who Hibs are trying to sign but logistically the parents just can't get them to Trannent for training during the week. The boys are still not attached to another club so hopefully something can be sorted.
What to do with East Mains? Maybe rent it to a local Newco club making it's way up the divisions? Sell for housing?

[green day]

If Hearts were to be kicked out of HW, what would people think of Hibs taking up the tennancy?
While East Mains is a terrific Facility, HW is about to become one of the best in Europe. It also has far better transport links which is important for youth players.
I spoke to a coach from Bathgate last week who was telling me he has two kids who Hibs are trying to sign but logistically the parents just can't get them to Trannent for training during the week. The boys are still not attached to another club so hopefully something can be sorted.
What to do with East Mains? Maybe rent it to a local Newco club making it's way up the divisions? Sell for housing?

M8,bypass,A1 ?

What would they do if the kids were training with Dundee utd??

[cocopops1875]

M8,bypass,A1 ?

What would they do if the kids were training with Dundee utd??

Maybe they wouldn't take them to Dundee ?

[Ozyhibby]

M8,bypass,A1 ?

What would they do if the kids were training with Dundee utd??

I think the kids are only 8 or 9.
Dundee utd would probably be out as well. I'm not saying it would solve all problems, just make some a bit easier. There a far more talented kids to the west of the city than to the east.

[green day]

I think the kids are only 8 or 9.
Dundee utd would probably be out as well. I'm not saying it would solve all problems, just make some a bit easier. There a far more talented kids to the west of the city than to the east.

I was assuming the parents would drive!

Take your point though, the population centres in Scotland are not in E Lothian. I don't know, but imagine that they run satelite sessions in areas other than E Mains? If not, then I agree we are cutting ourselves off from a lot of potential.

I seem to remember that the Hun's used to have mini centres in most cities for this reason - I.e. kids couldn't be expected to travel through to Mordor for sessions.

[Deansy]

I may well be wrong, but were Hearts not meant to joint builders and owners of the facility, but they eventually couldn't afford to do that. The rent is in lieu of their share of the development :dunno:

Yup - Hearts bumped them when construction was at an advanced stage so HWU were forced to shoulder the extra financial costs. Iirc, their '25-year Lease' was negotiated as a form of compensation for it.

[Mikey]

I seem to remember something about there being a few acres of extra land at East Mains that is not required for the sports centre.
It was suggested a change to housing use may be possible in future. Remember, its not Edinburgh Council we would have to apply to for planning permission.

The anti Farmer mob were keen to tell us at the time that he bought extra land (using the club's money of course) so that he could sell it off for housing at a profit (for himself of course) at a later date.

[cocopops1875]

The anti Farmer mob were keen to tell us at the time that he bought extra land (using the club's money of course) so that he could sell it off for housing at a profit (for himself of course) at a later date.

He probably couldn't afford it with his own money Mikey, you know what it's like when your a wee bit short

[Mikey]

He probably couldn't afford it with his own money Mikey, you know what it's like when your a wee bit short

What? Like the Hibs midfield?? :greengrin

[GREEN WARLORD]

They actually get a not bad deal all in then (I work at HWU as a contractor) I see the 1st team and u20s training there but always assumed the young uns had other arrangements as the Uni must have a need for the facilities.
As I said earlier I'm all for us having our own place and having been out there to play and also did the tour when it opened can say its first class, just saying even if they were paying what they are due we are paying the same for not massively different facilities, In fact the indoor area they have use of is a huge step up from what we have. They have offices, their own changing and roughly 8 pitches one of which is all weather, great gym and other social sports like squash. Dunno what they do for eating and laundry which we have on site but my point is pound for pound they have a not bad deal (if they were actually paying for it)

There is a hot dog looking trailer that sits in the car park outside the entrance, some skank comes along and makes them pasta. As for laundry, there is a washing machine and tumble dryer that sits in the cleaners cupboard, the kitman washes their smeg ridden clothes.

[jgl07]

I Don't really think its the same thing as its not 500k rent v 500k mortgage as we have already bought the house outright, lets not kid ourselves that east mains is massively better than HWU pound for pound.
The difference is we have unlimited unrestricted use of ours so all our teams train there.
As I said earlier I'm pro east mains

I don't understand your figures. You are suggesting that the running costs for East mains are higher than the rental costs of Riccarton. How can East mains possible cost that much to run unless you include the wages of the coaching staff and other costs hat will have to be picked up anyway?

If the genuine running costs are greater that the ren (not) paid for Riccarton, this suggests that Heriot-Watt are seriously undercharging Hearts.

[CyberSauzee]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hearts-administration-bdo-hold-heriot-watt-talks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

[Coco Bryce]

I hear Hearts under 20s are back training at Newtongrange Star ground. Surprised at them allowing this to be honest as Hearts bumped them for payment 2 years ago :tsk tsk:

[greenpaper55]

The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

[Billy Whizz]

The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

Depends if HW need the money to support their centre or not

[Gus Fring]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hearts-administration-bdo-hold-heriot-watt-talks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

Slightly misleading from the Scotsman there. The article is factually accurate, the facts have just been presented in a misleading manner.

My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

[Waxy]

We'll see them trudging along gorgie road to saughton park soon.

[MB62]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hearts-administration-bdo-hold-heriot-watt-talks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

I was reading that this morning, quite incredible the brass neck of that lot. They are due HWU £146.000 in unpaid fees and now the want to re-negotiate new fees, HWU should tell them where to go, which would probably be Inverleith Park or somewhere to train. The Yams have been slagging us for East Mains apparently costing us £500,000 a year to run, telling us it's breaking the bank, yet East Mains is ours, they are paying £400,000 a year to RENT HWU.

GITRUY you despicable bunch of thieves.

[Billy Whizz]

My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

Pretty wide negotiation stances on this then

[CropleyWasGod]

The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

They're not allowed to pay back HWU.

[Hibs07p]

I am assuming the lease agreement re the training centre "died" with Hearts entering administration, and owing HWU rent, and that HWU can "impose" a more favourable lease agreement in their favour, or if Hearts don't like it they can Foff.

GGTTH

[CyberSauzee]

Slightly misleading from the Scotsman there. The article is factually accurate, the facts have just been presented in a misleading manner.

My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

Thanks Baj, always good to hear your inside take on things.

I'm guessing BDO offering next to nothing, and HWU saying it's not worth our while for such a small amount.

[Gus Fring]

Thanks Baj, always good to hear your inside take on things.

I'm guessing BDO offering next to nothing, and HWU saying it's not worth our while for such a small amount.

That would be my guess, too. I rarely get figures though, only vague statements. The only time I got an exact figure was the Wonga money and that was because it was so utterly ludicrous that Hearts wanted to tell anyone who would listen that Barry Anderson was a liar.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I would guess that the National Performance Centre will be attracting a fair bit of new business for the facilities, so I doubt it will be "nobody at all". It might actually suit HWU to have Hearts cancel their agreement so they can negotiate better rates (either with NewYamCo or another sporting organisation) for use of the improved facilities.

The person responsible for the new initiative was interviewed over the weekend by Radio Scotland (Johnnie Beattie's show).
The venture needs to be self-funding and interestingly enough in the cited users, Hearts were notably conspicuous by their absence.

[greenginger]

Oh, I hear you. The same thing is said to me time and time again by clients and disgruntled (decent) traders. Like I say, though, no-one has come up with a better way.

How about bringing back debtors prisons ! :greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

How about bringing back debtors prisons ! :greengrinWith gallows for the worst cases.

[Hibs Class]

They're not allowed to pay back HWU.

If it was to be classed as a football debt then it may not be hopeless for HWU?

[CropleyWasGod]

If it was to be classed as a football debt then it may not be hopeless for HWU?

I've never seen a definition of "football debt", but IMO that would be stretching it a bit. If they were classed as a football debt, then so would many others.

[Hibs Class]

I've never seen a definition of "football debt", but IMO that would be stretching it a bit. If they were classed as a football debt, then so would many others.

I agree but I'd be willing to have a go at arguing the case on behalf of HWU :greengrin

[CropleyisGod]

The person responsible for the new initiative was interviewed over the weekend by Radio Scotland (Johnnie Beattie's show).
The venture needs to be self-funding and interestingly enough in the cited users, Hearts were notably conspicuous by their absence.

My contact at the Hairy previously told me the reason they weren't rocking the boat re: existing debt was that the Yams were an integral part of the bid. Interesting that, now they've won it, they may be happy to jetison the mutants.

[greenginger]

I agree but I'd be willing to have a go at arguing the case on behalf of HWU :greengrin


Heriot Watt have a football team who may well have suffered from lack of funding because of Yams failure to pay their dues.

Its a football debt, make them pay !

[renato]

I spoke to a coach from Bathgate last week who was telling me he has two kids who Hibs are trying to sign but logistically the parents just can't get them to Trannent for training during the week. The boys are still not attached to another club so hopefully something can be sorted.


Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

[jgl07]

I can't really see Heriot-Watt giving Hearts the heave.

They are probably grossly overprovided with sports facilities. This stemmed from the collapse of the proposed merger with moray House College and Edinburgh College of Art. It assumed that all or most of the facilities would be relocated to Riccarton increasing the number of staff and students considerably. This was especially the case given Moray House's involvement with PE teacher training.

Moray House pulled out of the merger and subsequently merged with the University of Edinburgh in 1998. Heriot-Watt were left with severe overcapacity. That was just before Hearts agreed to use Riccarton.

[Jay]

Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

I know Hibs used to put on a minibus for kids from Livi, don't know if that stopped or what age group the boys had to be. The boy I know was U 15/16s at the time.

[cocopops1875]

I don't understand your figures. You are suggesting that the running costs for East mains are higher than the rental costs of Riccarton. How can East mains possible cost that much to run unless you include the wages of the coaching staff and other costs hat will have to be picked up anyway?

If the genuine running costs are greater that the ren (not) paid for Riccarton, this suggests that Heriot-Watt are seriously undercharging Hearts.

Not my figures to be fair just a mash up of info (some with providence) but not mental by any stretch staffing costs, insurance, utility's , repairs this place Runs 14 hours a day 7 days a week I believe
Hearts on the other hand are simply renting space in something thats there (now without much investment from them) at a time of the day when these facilities would be quiet at best. Its akin to you renting your garage out while you are away in your car at work all day, How do you price that or are you happy getting something for pretty much nothing as you are paying the upkeep already ?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

Could car pooling be an option? It's what I used to do when training with Hibs youth, albeit a fair few years ago now! Any other parents from the team that could maybe provide a lift with Hibs covering the additional petrol? Just a thought.

[Golden Bear]

Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

It could be swings and roundabouts though as East Mains may well be a better location for kids on the east side of the city or even the north east of England.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

Is this not why we have satellite locations? Plus are we not considering having a teaching facility on site?

[Jack]

They're not allowed to pay back HWU.

Sorry I can't remember if I mentioned this here or the Bounce, doesn't matter anyway as I can't remember if there was an answer.

What's to stop HWU upping the rent post administration to recover some or all of the money lost as a result of administration?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Sorry I can't remember if I mentioned this here or the Bounce, doesn't matter anyway as I can't remember if there was an answer.

What's to stop HWU upping the rent post administration to recover some or all of the money lost as a result of administration?

Nothing, except Hearts would probably refuse to pay it and would find alternative facilities. They're looking to cut the rent / lease cost as it is.

[Jim44]

Despite being shafted by the Jambos, I'm sure that HWU will be desperate in the longer term to keep HoMFC at Riccarton. Their dirty money, as and when they deign to pay their rent, will be seen as better than little or none at all. The ****b@gs will no doubt land on their feet yet again. :-(

[renato]

Not sure re minibus / car pooling potential as presume this would have been suggested as an option, if the scout felt it was viable.

Also training facilities were offered at EM only so not sure if Hibs operate via other satellite locations, specifically in West Lothian / Stirlingshire region?

I guess it's a difficult choice for parents who are keen to see their kid(s) given the opportunity to develop potential, especially with an SPL club, but having to balance work / family commitments and of course a location that's viable, given these constraints.

[#FromTheCapital]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BDO reach amicable arrangement with Heriot-Watt that will allow Hearts to continue with full use of Riccarton campus facilities#bbcsportscot

[clerriehibs]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BDO reach amicable arrangement with Heriot-Watt that will allow Hearts to continue with full use of Riccarton campus facilities#bbcsportscot

The filth get lucky. Are HWU obliged to divulge if asked?

[Bishop Hibee]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BDO reach amicable arrangement with Heriot-Watt that will allow Hearts to continue with full use of Riccarton campus facilities#bbcsportscot

Just saw that tweet. I feel the need for a Freedom of information letter from one of our esteemed posters coming on. It does worry me that the cooncil may try to reach 'an amicable settlement' over a new stadium. Hertz, a club that knows no shame.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

A big GIRUY to us Hobos indeed, no shame at all. I suppose this GIRUY extends to them shafting the Poppy Fund and their own charity.

It wasn't so long ago they unleashed faux outrage on us for laughing at them going into admin and staff being made redundant. Now they can barely contain their one-upmanship at the expense of local businesses and charities.

[#FromTheCapital]

A minor victory for the filth. Much bigger problems still ahead for them, the main one being will they still exist in a few months? No point in having training facilities if there's no team to make use of them.

[Crazyhorse]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BDO reach amicable arrangement with Heriot-Watt that will allow Hearts to continue with full use of Riccarton campus facilities#bbcsportscot
Does that mean they will pay what HW demanded?

[clerriehibs]

Does that mean they will pay what HW demanded?

No, it means they'll continue to pay **** all.

[Eternal Hibbie]

What difference does it make if they still train there ?

It never has belonged to them, never will belong to them, let the deluded clowns believe they have a training facility like the other big teams.

There must be some kind of guarantee in their new lease to ensure they pay their rent this time around for as long as they are around.

We have our own, bought and paid for, they can only dream.

:)


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[steakbake]

I've missed something here - where's Sidney?

[21.05.2016]

****ing rank rotten, smug, disgusting, moral less club with absolutely NO shame as they continue to keep proving! When is this absolute joke of a club going to finally stop getting away with their cons! Should have been wiped from the face of the earth long long ago!

[Spike Mandela]

The filth get lucky. Are HWU obliged to divulge if asked?

Luck has nothing to do with it. Political and council leverage, not to mention the cheats charter of administration more likely the reason.

what does this actually mean.........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24134954

Are they paying, less, the same, deferring payment or what. It stinks to high heaven.

[Crazyhorse]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Political and council leverage, not to mention the cheats charter of administration more likely the reason.

what does this actually mean.........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24134954

Are they paying, less, the same, deferring payment or what. It stinks to high heaven.

Maybe Yams/BDO just folded and agreed to pay the price that was originally agreed?

[MB62]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Political and council leverage, not to mention the cheats charter of administration more likely the reason.

what does this actually mean.........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24134954

Are they paying, less, the same, deferring payment or what. It stinks to high heaven.


I have absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that this lot are being protected by political means, either fair or foul. However, if our politicians can get away Scot free with squandering £750m of our money on trams that were never needed, then protecting this lot should be a breeze for them :grr:

[CyberSauzee]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Political and council leverage, not to mention the cheats charter of administration more likely the reason.

what does this actually mean.........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24134954

Are they paying, less, the same, deferring payment or what. It stinks to high heaven.

From reading this:

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-get-riccarton-training-complex-boost-1-3098432

"The new terms have not been disclosed, but BDO are content that the benefits of the training centre outweigh the costs involved."

Indicates to me little or even no change to the original agreement.

[Ozyhibby]

From reading this:

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-get-riccarton-training-complex-boost-1-3098432

"The new terms have not been disclosed, but BDO are content that the benefits of the training centre outweigh the costs involved."

Indicates to me little or even no change to the original agreement.

I had heard that they were told to take it or leave it and they decided to take it.

[Jim44]

I had heard that they were told to take it or leave it and they decided to take it.

Ah, but who was told to take it or leave it? If the Jambos were looking for a big reduction they might have forced HWU's hand as, all things being equal (yes I accept they are not currently equal) guaranteed income from the Jambos (when they pay it) is better than none at all. I'm disappointed that after being shafted by the Jambos, HWU didn't tell them to take a run and a jump but it looks like they have no principles or moral fibre ......................... they deserve each other.

[Mikey]

Ah, but who was told to take it or leave it? If the Jambos were looking for a big reduction they might have forced HWU's hand as, all things being equal (yes I accept they are not currently equal) guaranteed income from the Jambos (when they pay it) is better than none at all. I'm disappointed that after being shafted by the Jambos, HWU didn't tell them to take a run and a jump but it looks like they have no principles or moral fibre ......................... they deserve each other.

Bearing in mind how reluctant they were to provide info requested under the FOI act I'd imagine the place is packed full of yams and yam sympathisers. It's no surprise at all that they would cut them a deal that suits.

[greenpaper55]

If the new complex is to be built at rickety then why would HW need the cheats money ?, it might have been a case of take it or leave it from HW.

[scoopyboy]

No, it means they'll continue to pay **** all.

Would it not mean that now they will have to pay the agreed rental figure?

I thought BDO have a duty to pay the bills as from the date they were called in.

If they haven't been paying their rent in the past then surely it is bad news for them that they are now having to pay for something they previously got for brussel sprout (albeit by cheating).

[Baader]

Wouldn't want to be paying any tuition fees for any course at Heriot Watt...

[robinp]

Wouldn't want to be paying any tuition fees for any course at Heriot Watt...

Try to negotiate your first year fees are written off on the basis you WILL pay 50% of the fees you are due in the following 2 or 3 years of study on time? See what they say. :greengrin

[clerriehibs]

Try to negotiate your first year fees are written off on the basis you WILL pay 50% of the fees you are due in the following 2 or 3 years of study on time? See what they say. :greengrin

Or to be just as fair as the homfc deal, you'll pay fees only if you graduate.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What's the chances of this....Alex salmond promised HWU would get the world class centre in return for hwu not chasing the yams debt.....

Was this a serious question?

[Robinho08]

The tramps should be back training on public parks.

[CropleyWasGod]

The tramps should be back training on public parks.

Nah. Having to pay for their training facilities just hastens their end.

[Crossgates Hibs]

I have absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that this lot are being protected by political means, either fair or foul. However, if our politicians can get away Scot free with squandering £750m of our money on trams that were never needed, then protecting this lot should be a breeze for them :grr:


Cant help but agree with that unfortunately. If Hibs were in this position we would be goosed by now something stinks about all of this. My only hope is sevco happened so surely they will be allowed to fail and hopefully lose their tip of a ground.

[RoslinInstHibby]

Nah. Having to pay for their training facilities just hastens their end.

exactly, the yams signed a 25 year contract and the Uni expect them to honour it....dont see the problem myself

[Bostonhibby]

exactly, the yams signed a 25 year contract and the Uni expect them to honour it....dont see the problem myself

Is it because they are hearts? A club who have a tendency not to pay on time, or at all, and also to hold onto money that isn't there's whilst simultanously spending what they haven't got?
There's a creditors list running into hundreds all of whom have experience of the honour end of a contract with hearts.

Its easy to see why some are suspicious about why HWU had no problem renewing a deal with a business they allowed incredible laxity to in pursuing a previous debt that they were then bumped for by the very same business. Wish I had a credit arrangement like that.

Still its not really their money they are helping the yam out with...........again.

[RoslinInstHibby]

Is it because they are hearts? A club who have a tendency not to pay on time, or at all, and also to hold onto money that isn't there's whilst simultanously spending what they haven't got?
There's a creditors list running into hundreds all of whom have experience of the honour end of a contract with hearts.

Its easy to see why some are suspicious about why HWU had no problem renewing a deal with a business they allowed incredible laxity to in pursuing a previous debt that they were then bumped for by the very same business. Wish I had a credit arrangement like that.

Still its not really their money they are helping the yam out with...........again.

but what would be the benefit to the uni of kicking them out now?

[Bostonhibby]

but what would be the benefit to the uni of kicking them out now?

Credibility? There is a real stigma attached to how long they turned a blind eye to pursuing the original debt and a cynicism about how quickly they have continued the alliance.

How about the expectation that whatever financial planning they have used to underpin funding they are given won't go pear shaped because they appear to deal with organisations who are very poor credit risks, at best uncertain to be able to see out the contract at the price agreed.

The previous failure to collect, sue or terminate was very poor mismanagement of someone elses funds, very yam like really. What could possibly go wrong this time?

[CropleyWasGod]

Credibility? There is a real stigma attached to how long they turned a blind eye to pursuing the original debt and a cynicism about how quickly they have continued the alliance.

How about the expectation that whatever financial planning they have used to underpin funding they are given won't go pear shaped because they appear to deal with organisations who are very poor credit risks, at best uncertain to be able to see out the contract at the price agreed.

The previous failure to collect, sue or terminate was very poor mismanagement of someone elses funds, very yam like really. What could possibly go wrong this time?

Would you say the same about the Police, stewarding companies and the likes who are owed money by Hearts, but who continue to trade with them post-administration?

[Bostonhibby]

Would you say the same about the Police, stewarding companies and the likes who are owed money by Hearts, but who continue to trade with them post-administration?

If there was a thread about them all and their approach to the debt and willingness to get into bed with them yes CWG I would, more so with those that are paid for by the rest of us :-) even more so where our pink friends are concerned.

I do accept that under " normal" business rules that companies in admin and who have come out of it are likely to be better marks for their liabilities than previously but not many have financial business plans like this one. Very reliant on the diddies, an unknown number of whom will become diddies that didnae!

[CentreLine]

If there was a thread about them all and their approach to the debt and willingness to get into bed with them yes CWG I would, more so with those that are paid for by the rest of us :-) even more so where our pink friends are concerned.

I do accept that under " normal" business rules that companies in admin and who have come out of it are likely to be better marks for their liabilities than previously but not many have financial business plans like this one. Very reliant on the diddies, an unknown number of whom will become diddies that didnae!

Do we know how many, if any, companies appear on both the hahahahearts list as well as sevco 5088?
Worse still, do we know if anyone managed to be on their lists and also those of Motherwell, Livi, Dundee and Dunfermline?

[CropleyWasGod]

Do we know how many, if any, companies appear on both the hahahahearts list as well as sevco 5088?
Worse still, do we know if anyone managed to be on their lists and also those of Motherwell, Livi, Dundee and Dunfermline?

Sevco 5088 weren't in administration, though. They are the company that bought OldCo's assets.

AFAIK, though, the only creditor common to all 6 situations would be you and I :greengrin

[Jack]

Sevco 5088 weren't in administration, though. They are the company that bought OldCo's assets.

AFAIK, though, the only creditor common to all 6 situations would be you and I :greengrin

Yup, I'd imagine the police, NHS, local council and any other statutory authority required to provide a service.

Voluntary organisations and charities are an optional extra.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Looking at some of the press coverage since this renegotiated deal was announced, it looks more like this was an internal argument within Hearts between BDO and the football staff than anything to do with HWU. Last midweek it's announced that HWU have won the bid for the improved facilities funded by the state. Jambos think great, we'll get use of some or all of that. A day or two later it's leaked to a friendly journalist (well known yam Brian McLauchlin) that oh no, those nasty beancounters at BDO are thinking of cancelling the HWU lease because it's too expensive. This has the potential to produce a bit of a backlash against BDO.

Three days later it's announced that HMFC and HWU have reached an amicable agreement. Then it's reported in the press effectively that "the terms are undisclosed, but it's understood that BDO have been convinced of the lease's value to HMFC". What that says to me is that there has been little or no change in terms of the lease, as you simply wouldn't get a negotiation and a decision out of a public body (HWU) that quickly. BDO have accepted whatever terms HWU were demanding, after caving into pressure from the HMFC football staff to continue the arrangement.

[greenginger]

Sound logic, PTS :aok:

[ACLeith]

Or BDO know the game's up and they will go pop before the first invoice pops through their letterbox?

[Bostonhibby]

Looking at some of the press coverage since this renegotiated deal was announced, it looks more like this was an internal argument within Hearts between BDO and the football staff than anything to do with HWU. Last midweek it's announced that HWU have won the bid for the improved facilities funded by the state. Jambos think great, we'll get use of some or all of that. A day or two later it's leaked to a friendly journalist (well known yam Brian McLauchlin) that oh no, those nasty beancounters at BDO are thinking of cancelling the HWU lease because it's too expensive. This has the potential to produce a bit of a backlash against BDO.

Three days later it's announced that HMFC and HWU have reached an amicable agreement. Then it's reported in the press effectively that "the terms are undisclosed, but it's understood that BDO have been convinced of the lease's value to HMFC". What that says to me is that there has been little or no change in terms of the lease, as you simply wouldn't get a negotiation and a decision out of a public body (HWU) that quickly. BDO have accepted whatever terms HWU were demanding, after caving into pressure from the HMFC football staff to continue the arrangement.

:agree: This is a highly likely analysis, evidenced by the many many months that the same bodies ignored the accumulating debts they were incurring. Yamanomics in action in the public sector on this occasion.