The establishment club? (merged)

[Miguel]

Were Hearts ever and are they still the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh?
I remember reading the auto biography of Arnold Kemp, who was a very well respected journalist and one time editor of the old Glasgow Herald. He was a minister's son and public school and said it was considered 'rakish' of people from his background to support Hibs (think this would be in the 1940s and 50s). I guess most of the middle class would have been into rugby more than football, but, from personal experience, public schools, the legal profession, and the finance sector - particularly places like Standard Life - seem to be full of THEM, not to mention the council. I suspect a lot of this had its roots in the early days when we were seen as outsiders and they, maybe by default rather than design, we're insiders. Perhaps that's why we have always attracted the creative people?

[lord bunberry]

I would imagine the antics of that shower of thieving beasts will have the middle classes deserting them in droves.

[Hibercelona]

I would imagine the antics of that shower of thieving beasts will have the middle classes deserting them in droves.

:agree:

The only kind of people they'll have left are those who pish themselves (think Foulkes) or those who like to be pished on (think Locke).

[Scouse Hibee]

An interesting term is the establishment, many a dark and sinister being lies within.

[Del Boy]

It's interesting that the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee has found themselves in a financial mess in recent years and shafted many local businesses.

[jeffers]

Were Hearts ever and are they still the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh?
I remember reading the auto biography of Arnold Kemp, who was a very well respected journalist and one time editor of the old Glasgow Herald. He was a minister's son and public school and said it was considered 'rakish' of people from his background to support Hibs (think this would be in the 1940s and 50s). I guess most of the middle class would have been into rugby more than football, but, from personal experience, public schools, the legal profession, and the finance sector - particularly places like Standard Life - seem to be full of THEM, not to mention the council. I suspect a lot of this had its roots in the early days when we were seen as outsiders and they, maybe by default rather than design, we're insiders. Perhaps that's why we have always attracted the creative people?

Glad to say there are a lot of good Hibbys in Standard Life !

[Mac]

Glad to say there are a lot of good Hibbys in Standard Life !

SL certainly used to have a more Hibs support due to the link with Leith ACademy in the 80's where they employed a large number of the school leavers, still know a vast number who still ply their trade working that organisation, sadly due to the growth of the company they needed to employ more cleaners, tea boys and gofers (go for this go for that)

[Andy74]

It's interesting that the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee has found themselves in a financial mess in recent years and shafted many local businesses.

No surprise either. They all have a misplaced sense of entitlement that they continue to pursue.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I have always thought of the Yams as Edinburgh's 'establishment club' and I dare say that historically that has been the case. For one thing it does seem to be the case that Hibs have more bother trying to wrangle cooperation out of the cooncil than the Yams do.

However, as has been shown in the case of the club formerly known as Rangers, it seems that the 'establishment' are more likely to cross the street to avoid you or black ball you from the club than come out in droves to help you out when things start going Ts up.

Having said that ...... There is a great bit in the documentary the BBC made about the Mercer takeover bid a few years back. They interview a guy who is a Q.C. .. a real posh lad, but a Hibby all the same. He said " I was not at all surprised to hear that Hibernian were the target of a takeover, but when I heard it was Heart of Midlowthian " I was very surprised.

I've seen and heard the Yams called every insulting thing in the world on here and at games ( most of it unprintable ) but never anything so insulting or dismissive as the inflection in that guys voice when he said " Heart of Midlowthian " it was like he was talking about something he had found on the bottom of his shoe.

Just coz yer posh disnae mean tae say ye cannae be a guid Hibby.
:pfgwa

[half.time.draw.]

Glad to say there are a lot of good Hibbys in Standard Life !

Yep loads of us!

[Part/Time Supporter]

All this "proddy teams" = "establishment clubs" is a bit of a myth nowadays. If there is such a thing as the "establishment club" in Scotland nowadays it is Celtic. In the last 10 years or so, they've had one chairman (Quinn) who was deputy governor of the Bank of England, another chairman (Reid) who held several top positions in the UK government and one of their current directors (Livingston) is chief executive of BT. You would struggle to find a club in England, never mind Scotland, with senior people with that level of connections or power.

Let's put it another way - where was the establishment when Dundee or Rangers went bust, and where are they now? "The establishment" surely amounts to more than a pipsqueak shadow junior minister MP (?).

[AndyM_1875]

Were Hearts ever and are they still the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh?
I remember reading the auto biography of Arnold Kemp, who was a very well respected journalist and one time editor of the old Glasgow Herald. He was a minister's son and public school and said it was considered 'rakish' of people from his background to support Hibs (think this would be in the 1940s and 50s). I guess most of the middle class would have been into rugby more than football, but, from personal experience, public schools, the legal profession, and the finance sector - particularly places like Standard Life - seem to be full of THEM, not to mention the council. I suspect a lot of this had its roots in the early days when we were seen as outsiders and they, maybe by default rather than design, we're insiders. Perhaps that's why we have always attracted the creative people?

As a product of one of those Edinburgh public schools which pushed rugby that you refer to most of the years always had a good number of Hibs supporters as well as Jamboids and Currant buns.

Don't really think hearts are any sort of Establishment club and if they were they haven't been for years. They did however get favours from the Council (Milligan ,Cardownie et al) woth regards to easy planning permissions and even easier safety certificate issuing and we got hostility from various Administrations (Lochend Butterfly, Vogrie etc).

[Clarence]

The Edinburgh establishment doesn't really want to be associated with the round ball game however when either club has relative success, you'll find the creeps crawling out the woodwork. The "posher" areas tend to lie in Hearts scratchment area but Trinity etc have a fair few posh Hibs radges. I do think that there is an inherent anti leith bias amongst the vast swathes of suburbanite Edinburghers. I've often fielded patronising comments from west of castle street dwellers about how Leith really has come on a long way and some of it is actually quite nice now, especially down by the shore. Ps I hope it's not the Hibbies at standard life that wear their pass on the bus, that's yammish sycophancy at its best.

[AndyM_1875]

All this "proddy teams" = "establishment clubs" is a bit of a myth nowadays. If there is such a thing as the "establishment club" in Scotland nowadays it is Celtic. In the last 10 years or so, they've had one chairman (Quinn) who was deputy governor of the Bank of England, another chairman (Reid) who held several top positions in the UK government and one of their current directors (Livingston) is chief executive of BT. You would struggle to find a club in England, never mind Scotland, with senior people with that level of connections or power.

Let's put it another way - where was the establishment when Dundee or Rangers went bust, and where are they now? "The establishment" surely amounts to more than a pipsqueak shadow junior minister MP (?).

Spot on.

The description of Rangers as the Establishment Club is lazy nonsense and hasn't been true since the before the New Labour times. But then the Labour Party in its West of Scotland incarnation always cuddled up to Celtic.

[Halifaxhibby]

Hearts are a big upmarket club, they are a club of proud people.
Hibs are the team of the dockers and blue collar workers in Edinburgh while Hearts are supported a bit more by white collar people from the banking and insurance sectors.

Didn't realise the big donkey had hung up his boots and moved into stand up comedy!!!!!!

[DarrenSQH]

Maybe in the past.

I work in the bank and it's 50/50 with hibs and hearts in Edinburgh.

[Bishop Hibee]

Were Hearts ever and are they still the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh?
I remember reading the auto biography of Arnold Kemp, who was a very well respected journalist and one time editor of the old Glasgow Herald. He was a minister's son and public school and said it was considered 'rakish' of people from his background to support Hibs (think this would be in the 1940s and 50s). I guess most of the middle class would have been into rugby more than football, but, from personal experience, public schools, the legal profession, and the finance sector - particularly places like Standard Life - seem to be full of THEM, not to mention the council. I suspect a lot of this had its roots in the early days when we were seen as outsiders and they, maybe by default rather than design, we're insiders. Perhaps that's why we have always attracted the creative people?

I know that 3 of Kemp's grandchildren are Hibees and are having/will have a private school secondary education.

These days there are more Hibs fans in private schools but they used to be chock full of Jambos.

[Jones28]

What a load of absolute drivel :crazy:

[jgl07]

Let's put it another way - where was the establishment when Dundee or Rangers went bust, and where are they now? "The establishment" surely amounts to more than a pipsqueak shadow junior minister MP (?).

Ian Murray is not a shadow minister. He is a backbencher with (obviously) too much time on his hands.

[semaj64]

Glad to say there are a lot of good Hibbys in Standard Life !
I would say there are more Hibs than Hearts, probably has been since I joined in the 80's

[Brizo]

Historically yes, But probably not since after WW2 when the post war fitba boom and the FF broadened our support way beyond the Leith working class and those sharing the clubs origins.

Id imagine the Hertz and our demographics are interchangeable. Although its always good value to stereotype them as middle management office workers from Corstorphine who wear tweed jaikets , drive Volvos, listen to Dire Straits and play badminton every Friday night with their old school chums.

With all their financial shennanigans sevco, hertz and dundee are really anti establishment clubs. And as others have said Celtc are the ultimate establishment club , a fact that I never tire of giruy to the lesser greens I know when they start their soup taker drivel.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Ian Murray is not a shadow minister. He is a backbencher with (obviously) too much time on his hands.

"Shadow Business Minister for employee relations, postal and consumer affairs" according to his twitter bio.

It's the shadow of the most junior position in the department.

[3pm]

Glad to say there are a lot of good Hibbys in Standard Life !

Yes.

[killie-hibby]

Were Hearts ever and are they still the 'establishment' club in Edinburgh?
I remember reading the auto biography of Arnold Kemp, who was a very well respected journalist and one time editor of the old Glasgow Herald. He was a minister's son and public school and said it was considered 'rakish' of people from his background to support Hibs (think this would be in the 1940s and 50s). I guess most of the middle class would have been into rugby more than football, but, from personal experience, public schools, the legal profession, and the finance sector - particularly places like Standard Life - seem to be full of THEM, not to mention the council. I suspect a lot of this had its roots in the early days when we were seen as outsiders and they, maybe by default rather than design, we're insiders. Perhaps that's why we have always attracted the creative people?


Arnold Kemp would agree with you that "we have always attracted the creative people". I remember a newspaper article in which he stated "Hibs draw support from the intellectual and bohemian population of Edinburgh".

[Hibrandenburg]

13 years in the Army (not a Scottish Regiment) and I had the pleasure of meeting several good Hibbies in my time. Only ever met one Yam who was a sniveling little toad who worked his ticket by pretending to be in love with the Sgt Major.

The establishment may have been part of their roots but I don't think it's nearly accurate to say so today.

[JohnStephens91]

The Edinburgh establishment doesn't really want to be associated with the round ball game however when either club has relative success, you'll find the creeps crawling out the woodwork. The "posher" areas tend to lie in Hearts scratchment area but Trinity etc have a fair few posh Hibs radges. I do think that there is an inherent anti leith bias amongst the vast swathes of suburbanite Edinburghers. I've often fielded patronising comments from west of castle street dwellers about how Leith really has come on a long way and some of it is actually quite nice now, especially down by the shore. Ps I hope it's not the Hibbies at standard life that wear their pass on the bus, that's yammish sycophancy at its best.

I live in Blackford and there a few Hibs fans in this "posher" area and so to with the Grange. Possibly an even number of Hibs and Hearts in these areas, there are "posh" Hibs fans.

Also I dispute the fact that we are posh if we live in certain areas. My mum has a really working class background and managed to work her way from being a cleaner up the job ladder and 12 years later is now in a good position in the council. She got lucky buying our council flat at the right time and sold it on for a fair whack and we got a move to Blackford. Just because we live in a more 'desirable' area (according to estate agents) doesn't make you posh.