Newtons range - School Trip to Mosque Cancelled.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well done parents, you have sown the seeds of ignorance and hate for generations to come. This from a community thar should understand what it is like to be vilified and misrepresented. The games up if mining communities can no longer understand the need for a united front on fascism.

What do the parents think will happen to the kids at the Mosque? They should hang their heads in shame.

[Scouse Hibee]

Well done parents, you have sown the seeds of ignorance and hate for generations to come. This from a community thar should understand what it is like to be vilified and misrepresented. The games up if mining communities can no longer understand the need for a united front on fascism.

What do the parents think will happen to the kids at the Mosque? They should hang their heads in shame.

What an utterly absurd and ridiculously over reactive post.

A parent has a right and a duty to decide what environments they allow their children to experience/attend. If the current climate dictates that some parents do not want their children to attend a mosque then fair enough. To suggest those same parents are then sowing the seeds of ignorance and hate within their children for generations to come is just plain ignorance on your behalf.

[hibsbollah]

Thats depressing. 28/90 parents? ive got to believe thats not representative of parents more widely.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Strap yourselves in lads and lassies, its going to be a bumpy ride! :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

What an utterly absurd and ridiculously over reactive post.

A parent has a right and a duty to decide what environments they allow their children to experience/attend. If the current climate dictates that some parents do not want their children to attend a mosque then fair enough. To suggest those same parents are then sowing the seeds of ignorance and hate within their children for generations to come is just plain ignorance on your behalf.

It seems to me that these people get their facts from Facebook and Jeremy Kyle. Their assumption is that there is a danger in Islam, and that their kids will be harmed if they go to the Mosque.

What evidence do these knuckle draggers have that Learning about Islam will harm their kids? This is an example of a couple of loud mouths mobilising a mob. I'd be ashamed to live in Newtongrange.

It is sad evidence of the disenfranchisement of the "working" class. The ignorance and stupidity of this decision is breathtaking.

Of course they have the right to protect their children. But to deny the kids the chance to make choices in their lives is criminal. I'd put these obese, fag smoking, WKD swilling, benefit scrounging parents in jail if I could.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What an utterly absurd and ridiculously over reactive post.

A parent has a right and a duty to decide what environments they allow their children to experience/attend. If the current climate dictates that some parents do not want their children to attend a mosque then fair enough. To suggest those same parents are then sowing the seeds of ignorance and hate within their children for generations to come is just plain ignorance on your behalf.


Thats depressing. 28/90 parents? ive got to believe thats not representative of parents more widely.

Unfortunately it's evidence of the "will nobody think of our children" approach to child rearing. If anybody raises the prospect that something could be a danger to children, parents are now duty bound to follow that line, or be accused of being irresponsible.

[Pretty Boy]

What exactly are the parents concerns?

Genuine question as I really can't see what danger they expect their kids to encounter when visiting a Mosque.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What exactly are the parents concerns?

Genuine question as I really can't see what danger they expect their kids to encounter when visiting a Mosque.

That their children will find out they are uneducated bigots?

[Scouse Hibee]

Have you simply considered that some parents may be concerned about their children being in the vicinity of a Mosque given the heightened sense of outrage directed at Mosques by some idiots?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Have you simply considered that some parents may be concerned about their children being in the vicinity of a Mosque given the heightened sense of outrage directed at Mosques by some idiots?

Yes, but do they really think the school would go ahead with the trip if there was a risk? How do they think the people of the South Side go about their daily business? Why are there no reports of tensions around the Mosque.

Parents appear to be more and more risk averse. Unfortunately they have lost the ability to assess risk, or to discuss it sensibly.

Besides, there is a quote from a 42 year old man, which suggests that he does not agree with is child hearing the facts about other religions.

I hope the kids that did goo on the trip noise up those that got a lesson on Islam in the classroom. Then they will tell their parents exactly what they think of their ignorance.

[Allant1981]

Personally i wouldnt have a problem with my son going but given that there are some idiots out to cause trouble just now you can see why folk would be concerned, out of curiosity. Why were the kids visiting a mosque?

[s.a.m]

Personally i wouldnt have a problem with my son going but given that there are some idiots out to cause trouble just now you can see why folk would be concerned, out of curiosity. Why were the kids visiting a mosque?

As part of their religious education programme. I'm 45, and when I was in primary school, we were taken to visit a synagogue, as well as various different Christian churches for the same reason.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Personally i wouldnt have a problem with my son going but given that there are some idiots out to cause trouble just now you can see why folk would be concerned, out of curiosity. Why were the kids visiting a mosque?

Naturally, but a bit of common sense would have surely sorted the situation. It's Potterow we are talking about, not Baghdad.

A tiger ate a zoo keeper last week. I think most parents would still let their kids visit a zoo.

I don't object to parents making informed decisions, but these idiots have acted solely on a perception. They have not tried to find out more, they don't want to find out more.

I'm banning my kids from visiting Newtongrange, in the current climate who knows what could happen. I don't object to lazy fascist dole bludgers I just don't want them ramming it down my throat.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Not your normally subtle self with the fishing trips on this thread FR!

[Sylar]

Not your normally subtle self with the fishing trips on this thread FR!

I'm surprised the usual anti-Islamic tuna hasn't been reeled in yet.

[lord bunberry]

I can't understand what the parents think might happen, do they think muslims are going to attack their kids in their place of worship, do they think the sdl are going to attack their kids in protest. I can understand to a certain extent someone objecting on religious grounds but not on safety

[Phil D. Rolls]

Not your normally subtle self with the fishing trips on this thread FR!

Can't be bothered. I'm sick to death of the stupidity that is being put about. Ignorance is disgusting.

[Dinkydoo]

Parents deny children the opportunity to experience a mosque first hand.....because each and every mosque is a hotbed of Islamic extremism and indoctrination.

Parents, get a grip!

[Beefster]

Well done parents, you have sown the seeds of ignorance and hate for generations to come. This from a community thar should understand what it is like to be vilified and misrepresented. The games up if mining communities can no longer understand the need for a united front on fascism.

What do the parents think will happen to the kids at the Mosque? They should hang their heads in shame.

How does not wanting your kid to visit a mosque (which I wouldn't have objected to if my kid was going) equate to not presenting a united front against fascism? Seems a bit of a stretch to be honest.

PS most folk who live in Nitten nowadays probably have hee-haw ties to the mining-era Nitten.

[Allant1981]

As part of their religious education programme. I'm 45, and when I was in primary school, we were taken to visit a synagogue, as well as various different Christian churches for the same reason.

Must just be the primary i went to then that didnt go to other churches, infact the only time my primary went to church was at easter, christmas etc

[Scouse Hibee]

Must just be the primary i went to then that didnt go to other churches, infact the only time my primary went to church was at easter, christmas etc


I'm 45 and my primary school experience of visiting churches was pretty much the same as yours.

[Pretty Boy]

I certainly remeber learning a bit about other religions at school but can't recall visiting a Mosque, Synagogue etc.

Perhaps this was an attempt at building a bit of 'cross community' spirit by the school and Mosque though. Given recent tensions I wouldn't have thought that a bad idea but maybe i'm in the minority.

[Sylar]

Must just be the primary i went to then that didnt go to other churches, infact the only time my primary went to church was at easter, christmas etc

Likewise and I dare say we're not far removed spatially or temporally in our schooling? (If I'm recalling the wrong person, I do apologise!).

In Bathgate, there only was a multitude of Protestant churches and one Catholic church (which even St Mary's didn't use) so it's no real shock we didn't experience other faith institutions.

To this day, I still don't think Bathgate has anything other than Christian institutions?

[s.a.m]

I'm 45 and my primary school experience of visiting churches was pretty much the same as yours.


I certainly remeber learning a bit about other religions at school but can't recall visiting a Mosque, Synagogue etc.

Perhaps this was an attempt at building a bit of 'cross community' spirit by the school and Mosque though. Given recent tensions I wouldn't have thought that a bad idea but maybe i'm in the minority.

I daresay RME programmes will vary to some extent across schools and Education Authorities. In my day, though, content was probably much more under the jurisdiction of individual headteachers / teachers. My elder daughter went to Central Mosque in P6, and the younger one will next year when she's that age.
My synagogue trip was great - don't know where it was exactly, other than up a steep hill in Glasgow. A Rabbi showed us important features of the synagogue, and talked us through the religious service and rituals, and talked about different Jewish communities, and the history of Judaism.
I think we got crisps and juice as well.:aok:

[Allant1981]

Likewise and I dare say we're not far removed spatially or temporally in our schooling? (If I'm recalling the wrong person, I do apologise!).

In Bathgate, there only was a multitude of Protestant churches and one Catholic church (which even St Mary's didn't use) so it's no real shock we didn't experience other faith institutions.

To this day, I still don't think Bathgate has anything other than Christian institutions?

did i go to school with you?

[Sylar]

did i go to school with you?

No but you'd said previously you did your schooling in Bathgate (Academy) - you would have been leaving just as I was starting.

I'm assuming that you were also at primary school in Bathgate but again, correct me if I'm wrong!

[Allant1981]

Ahh, yip i went to bathgate academy, also went to balbardie primary

[stoneyburn hibs]

Well done parents, you have sown the seeds of ignorance and hate for generations to come. This from a community thar should understand what it is like to be vilified and misrepresented. The games up if mining communities can no longer understand the need for a united front on fascism.

What do the parents think will happen to the kids at the Mosque? They should hang their heads in shame.

My eldest son (19) has just finished his 2nd year at Uni, studying religious and philosophical education, secondary school teaching. Part of his course this year was a placement at a primary school for a few weeks, he was given the reigns for an hour or two each day to teach a primary 6 class religious education. You can imagine that this would have been very mild, he must have made some sort of impression on one kid though. He has told his parents what he had been learning, father up at the school next day demanding his child be excluded from this. Same guy had a rant at my son a few days after that, when the school had finished. Sad.

[frazeHFC]

Don't think there's anything wrong with it at all. Did the same trip when I was in School, waste of time! I think in High School religious education should not be compulsary, so many people believing in different religions in classes nowaday and kids shouldn't be told what to believe, which is what they tried to do with us. Everyone just used to take the piss.

[Mon Dieu4]

Don't think there's anything wrong with it at all. Did the same trip when I was in School, waste of time! I think in High School religious education should not be compulsary, so many people believing in different religions in classes nowaday and kids shouldn't be told what to believe, which is what they tried to do with us. Everyone just used to take the piss.

Might not be about making you believe anything but instead help you respect other peoples beliefs, i think its a fantastic idea and they should show kids round Mosques, Synagogues, Churches, Sikh Temples etc

[Dinkydoo]

Don't think there's anything wrong with it at all. Did the same trip when I was in School, waste of time! I think in High School religious education should not be compulsary, so many people believing in different religions in classes nowaday and kids shouldn't be told what to believe, which is what they tried to do with us. Everyone just used to take the piss.

Did the Mosque and Synagogue trips in Primary school and still feel that they are worthwhile doing, although I didn't "learn" much. The likelihood that a number of parents have outright objected to the idea on the basis that it is a "waste of time" is quite small - what about all the other things that could be interpreted as time wasting in Primary Schools such as sports day and fun day trips without much educational substance...

In High School, completely different. We took the utter piss and the class was treated like a 'skive'. I don't think anyone in the class was particularly religious and there wasn't even an exam or formal grade at the end of it all. It should definitely be optional.

[steakbake]

Modern society is #allverycomplex. Maybe in the interests of community cohesion and being able to understand others with a different view of the world, there is a value to this sort of thing until religion finally gets surpassed by an element of common sense. All to often, people are given prominence because of their beliefs: look at the House of Lords - packed full of people whose only qualification to be there is that they climbed the career ladder in the church.

If they visit a church, a mosque, a synagogue and a temple, perhaps they should also have a talk from a secularist? In the interests of balance, of course...

In relation to the parents - I am not really surprised. There's many people who want to be offended by anything but are ashamed of nothing. That comes into even sharper relief when it's a bunch of parents throwing a strop. If they want to dictate what the kids learn, then home-school them. Otherwise, let educators get on with their valuable work and stop wasting everyone's time.

[LeighLoyal]

It was built with Saudi money, and Saudi Arabia is the global financier of extremist Sunni Wahhabism which is the fundamental spiritual source for Al Qaeda and the Taliban. I've no idea if Wahhabist literature is present in this mosque but the Saudi's do not build mosques not to propagate their core beliefs. They've spent $90bn globally promoting their Wahhabist ideology. Aside from these concerns it should have no link with any school at all and any parent should have the right to say no.

[Mon Dieu4]

It was built with Saudi money, and Saudi Arabia is the global financier of extremist Sunni Wahhabism which is the fundamental spiritual source for Al Qaeda and the Taliban. I've no idea if Wahhabist literature is present in this mosque but the Saudi's do not build mosques not to propagate their core beliefs. They've spent $90bn globally promoting their Wahhabist ideology. Aside from these, concerns it should have no link with any school at all and any parent should have the right to say no.


I agree, Lidl is built with German money and they once started the holocaust, same with Hugo Boss and uniforms or Porsche with Pansers, lets boycott everything, you seriously sound more fundamentalist than any Muslim I've ever met

why don't you go to the Mosque and see what kind of literature they have or are you scared they will stone and behead you for being the white devil

[hibsbollah]

Both my youngest kids go to school near Potterrow. i'll be emailing the head shortly to suggest a visit for the pupils to the mosque. Stupidity cant be allowed to dictate our responses.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[QUOTE=LeighLoyal;3635083][SIZE=2]It was built with Saudi money, and Saudi Arabia is the global financier of extremist Sunni Wahhabism which is the fundamental spiritual source for Al Qaeda and the Taliban. I've no idea if Wahhabist literature is present in this mosque but the Saudi's do not build mosques not to propagate their core beliefs. They've spent $90bn globally promoting their Wahhabist ideology. Aside from these concerns it should have no link with any school at all and any parent should have the right to say no.
[/

Jairmany calling, Jairmany calling......

Drawing on your irrefutable evidence base again, LL - your imagination. Perish the thought that people be given the facts and make their own mind up. No, let's just keep making decisions based on prejudice and fear.

Down With This Sort of Thing.

[hibsbollah]

I agree, Lidl is built with German money and they once started the holocaust, same with Hugo Boss and uniforms or Porsche with Pansers, lets boycott everything, you seriously sound more fundamentalist than any Muslim I've ever met

why don't you go to the Mosque and see what kind of literature they have or are you scared they will stone and behead you for being the white devil

:agree:
While he's in the area he could pop up to Argyle Place where the middle eastern grocers are. The guy who owns it is a gem, really good guy and and he gives away copies of the koran next to his scales. If Mr.Loyal can control the urge to take the lot and burn them and have a wee read, he might find less reason to be so scared :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Both my youngest kids go to school near Potterrow. i'll be emailing the head shortly to suggest a visit for the pupils to the mosque. Stupidity cant be allowed to dictate our responses.

You mean they have built the Mosque near a school???!!! What chance freedom, if they are allowed to spread their poison to our children? I can just see them on the Minarets now chanting their hatred into school playgrounds.

[DaveF]

This thread is probably why I never was and never will be all that bothered about religion.

However, the good news, following a read of this http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3170/british-education-political-correctness is that there is a lot more pork out there for us non believers :greengrin

[LeighLoyal]

I agree, Lidl is built with German money and they once started the holocaust, same with Hugo Boss and uniforms or Porsche with Pansers, lets boycott everything, you seriously sound more fundamentalist than any Muslim I've ever met

why don't you go to the Mosque and see what kind of literature they have or are you scared they will stone and behead you for being the white devil

German's no longer promote Nazism last time I checked, but since you're so　worried about the Jewish holocaust I would suggest the banning of all deeply anti Semitic Wahabbi-Salafist material in the UK might be added to your agenda, a material that is taught in every school and mosque in Saudi Arabia. I don't know if this is the case in this Edinburgh mosque, but it was funded by believers in a deeply racist and misogynistic take on an already bi polar ideology.

[Twa Cairpets]

It was built with Saudi money, and Saudi Arabia is the global financier of extremist Sunni Wahhabism which is the fundamental spiritual source for Al Qaeda and the Taliban. I've no idea if Wahhabist literature is present in this mosque but the Saudi's do not build mosques not to propagate their core beliefs. They've spent $90bn globally promoting their Wahhabist ideology. Aside from these concerns it should have no link with any school at all and any parent should have the right to say no.


That's right, as enforcing ignorance of things you don't understand is by far and away the best way to develop tolerance of them, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Which do you think is a better way of addressing things you (think) you don't agree with at a fundamental level?

1) Relying on second hand information to rail against, cherry picked for maximum negative impact, or
2) Learning about what those you disagree with actively think and seeing things from their side in order to formulate (hopefully) cogent and researched refutations of their position?

I find all religion baffling but fascinating. I try to read what makes "the other side" tick so I can argue about what I see as the absurdity of it all - be it Christianity, Islam or Wicca - from a position of what I hope is knowledge.

You seem just to hate middle eastern darkies.

[Phil D. Rolls]

German's no longer promote Nazism last time I checked, but since you're so　worried about the Jewish holocaust I would suggest the banning of all deeply anti Semitic Wahabbi-Salafist material in the UK might be added to your agenda, a material that is taught in every school and mosque in Saudi Arabia. I don't know if this is the case in this Edinburgh mosque, but it was funded by believers in a deeply racist and misogynistic take on an already bi polar ideology.

I can see what you did there. You admit you don't know anything about the Edinburgh mosque, but you are able to suggest that it is guilty of promoting intolerance by association.

You, on the other hand, just promote intolerance. Any semblance of a fact, you twist into support for your argument. The truth is, you don't know what you are attacking here, but because there is a connection to Islam, it must be bad.

Why not just admit you have a prejudice and that you will fit it to anything you think resembles your warped views of religion? Is it because, even amongst the constituency you play to, there are reasonable people who truly believe in British values of fair play?

Just keep using innuendo, suggestion and fallacies instead, and hope that they aren't bright enough to read between the lines. They will eventually though, it will be the day your storm troopers - the mad, bad and disaffected, go too far and show themselves up as the sons of Mosley, Tindall, and Franco.

[LeighLoyal]

That's right, as enforcing ignorance of things you don't understand is by far and away the best way to develop tolerance of them, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Which do you think is a better way of addressing things you (think) you don't agree with at a fundamental level?

1) Relying on second hand information to rail against, cherry picked for maximum negative impact, or
2) Learning about what those you disagree with actively think and seeing things from their side in order to formulate (hopefully) cogent and researched refutations of their position?

I find all religion baffling but fascinating. I try to read what makes "the other side" tick so I can argue about what I see as the absurdity of it all - be it Christianity, Islam or Wicca - from a position of what I hope is knowledge.

You seem just to hate middle eastern darkies.


And you base that crude assessment on what exactly? I said Saudi Wahhabi and Salafist Sunni's follow a deeply bigoted and misogynistic version of Islam - 100% accurate as any Google search will tell you. This mosque was built by Saudi money - 100% accurate - the Iman's will be Sunni as Pakistani's are by and large the Muslim community in Edinburgh - 100% accurate. Whether or not Wahhabism is preached there or not I don't know but I'd be surprised if it wasn't given the funding source. I also questioned whether councils should be sending Scottish non religious, Christian or other denomination children for classes to a place of worship funded by Saudi Wahhabists - my opinion. That is all I said. Middle Eastern people are people like anywhere else. But accept the possibility I might be more informed on Islam than you think. And it is an ideology, not a race. It is not racist to challenge or question any ideology.

[Pete]

I remember people raving about the food from the mosque kitchen and I promised myself I would go. I eventually found out where it was, a wee alley off West Nicolson Street. I then find out there is another mosque kitchen on the corner of Nicolson Square which is a lot bigger and I assumed they had just moved to bigger premises. However, the one in the wee alley is still there and they both claim to be the original and best mosque kitchen.

What's that all about?:confused:


As for the visits, it's a bit sad as now would be the perfect time to go and visit the mosque. The parents might have a point if they were visiting Finsbury Park or somewhere with a track-record of hate-preachers or radicalisation. 99% of attendees aren't interested in that nonsense and the ones who are probably still attend school or are just youngsters looking for some kind of identity.

[SaulGoodman]

To be fair I can see why, I can remember going on a school trip to a mosque and they made us, and I mean made us pray and do the whole shabang, not a nice experience for a 10 year old

[Steve-O]

Have you simply considered that some parents may be concerned about their children being in the vicinity of a Mosque given the heightened sense of outrage directed at Mosques by some idiots?

Come on. It'd be pretty unlucky if the EDL decided to petrol bomb a Mosque at the EXACT time a bunch of schoolkids were visiting!

Judging by the garbage I see on Facebook on an almost daily basis, I truly despair at the stupidity of a massive percentage of the British population. It's truly unbelievable. :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

It seems to me that these people get their facts from Facebook and Jeremy Kyle. Their assumption is that there is a danger in Islam, and that their kids will be harmed if they go to the Mosque.

What evidence do these knuckle draggers have that Learning about Islam will harm their kids? This is an example of a couple of loud mouths mobilising a mob. I'd be ashamed to live in Newtongrange.

It is sad evidence of the disenfranchisement of the "working" class. The ignorance and stupidity of this decision is breathtaking.

Of course they have the right to protect their children. But to deny the kids the chance to make choices in their lives is criminal. I'd put these obese, fag smoking, WKD swilling, benefit scrounging parents in jail if I could.

Ah, that awkward moment when a socialist who stands up for the rights of the proletariat discovers that a large proportion of them are subdued fascist bully boys.

[heretoday]

As part of their religious education programme. I'm 45, and when I was in primary school, we were taken to visit a synagogue, as well as various different Christian churches for the same reason.

Exactly. And that's all it is. I remember when the mosque took part in the Open Day programme. It was very interesting to go there and we all got a good welcome.

The parents involved are beyond help really.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ah, that awkward moment when a socialist who stands up for the rights of the proletariat discovers that a large proportion of them are subdued fascist bully boys.

Who's sticking up for the proles? If these people want to cut themselves off from the real world it's their choice. They don't have any right to tell other people what to do, and they should have their kids taken off them if they are going to deny them the right to a proper education.

I think we should become more like Australia, they don't tolerate any of this sort of thing there.

[Betty Boop]

Who's sticking up for the proles? If these people want to cut themselves off from the real world it's their choice. They don't have any right to tell other people what to do, and they should have their kids taken off them if they are going to deny them the right to a proper education.

I think we should become more like Australia, they don't tolerate any of this sort of thing there.

:tee hee:

[Beefster]

Who's sticking up for the proles? If these people want to cut themselves off from the real world it's their choice. They don't have any right to tell other people what to do, and they should have their kids taken off them if they are going to deny them the right to a proper education.

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about the parents in question and are very intolerant towards them. Which is exactly what you're criticising them for.

I'm not sure how not sending your kid on a school trip is denying them a proper education either. I once missed a trip to some flower show at the SECC. That presumably explains that 'C' in my Highers.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about the parents in question and are very intolerant towards them. Which is exactly what you're criticising them for.

I'm not sure how not sending your kid on a school trip is denying them a proper education either. I once missed a trip to some flower show at the SECC. That presumably explains that 'C' in my Highers.

I've made it pretty clear what I am criticising them for.

If I am guilty of the same ill informed, petty, bigotry as them - so be it. The fact is the majority of the parents at that school let their kids go. The majority put their brains into gear considered what the risks were and saw that there was nothing to worry about.

So what was it that made the parents of these 30 wee ones see things in such stark contrast to others? Because either the knuckle draggers or the other parents has to be wrong. They can't both be right.

Either there is something at the Edinburgh Mosque that is so dangerous, teachers cannot protect kids from it. There is something that is so wrong, that parents can't stop its creeping influence on their children. Or the stay away parents have misinterpreted facts, or been deliberately told lies and are too stupid to ask their own questions.

I reckon this has started rolling with two mad cows in the school playground, one of whom is too frightened to tell the other to shut up. They have then got on their mobies and managed to rustle up another 30 cowards who never make their own decisions but need others to tell them what to think.

Sorry you missed the flower show.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Re the thread title, I don't think it was cancelled, was it?

[Beefster]

I've made it pretty clear what I am criticising them for.

If I am guilty of the same ill informed, petty, bigotry as them - so be it. The fact is the majority of the parents at that school let their kids go. The majority put their brains into gear considered what the risks were and saw that there was nothing to worry about.

So what was it that made the parents of these 30 wee ones see things in such stark contrast to others? Because either the knuckle draggers or the other parents has to be wrong. They can't both be right.

Either there is something at the Edinburgh Mosque that is so dangerous, teachers cannot protect kids from it. There is something that is so wrong, that parents can't stop its creeping influence on their children. Or the stay away parents have misinterpreted facts, or been deliberately told lies and are too stupid to ask their own questions.

I reckon this has started rolling with two mad cows in the school playground, one of whom is too frightened to tell the other to shut up. They have then got on their mobies and managed to rustle up another 30 cowards who never make their own decisions but need others to tell them what to think.

Sorry you missed the flower show.

Yeah, hypocrisy rules.

I think you, like the media, have blown this completely out of proportion and the reaction to it has been as ill-informed, offensive and reactionary as the original decision by the 28 sets of parents (not 30, not 32).

"Cows", "cowards", "knuckle-draggers", "loud mouths", "obese", "fag-smoking", "WKD-swilling", "benefit-scrounging", "fascists", "dole bludgers" are the way you've described the parents on this thread alone - you really don't like working class folk, huh? I seem to recall you writing off East Lothian in a similar fashion a while back.

[The_Exile]

I'm an atheist, so I'd object to my kids going to a mosque but wouldn't stop them going, they probably need exposed to religion at some point to see how utterly ridiculous it all is. I'm also not happy with them getting taken to church before the Xmas break but its a day out of school with their pals more than anything else so just let them get on with it.

[LeighLoyal]

To be fair I can see why, I can remember going on a school trip to a mosque and they made us, and I mean made us pray and do the whole shabang, not a nice experience for a 10 year old


They actually made you get down and face Mecca to pray to their Allah? Pretty bad. If leftist councils are going to inflict this 'community relation' garbage on young children it should be with clearly set boundaries. I would like to see these councils send Muslim youth into a Christian church and make them take part in a service, or instruct them on humanist atheism, no chance of that happening though. "Oh, it might cause offence", knee tremble time!


I see boxing promoter Alex Morrison has the great and good after him for his 'waysis' Islamic view. We need to get away from categorising Islam as a race in this country. It's an erroneous and false label.

[Sylar]

They actually made you get down and face Mecca to pray to their Allah? Pretty bad. If leftist councils are going to inflict this 'community relation' garbage on young children it should be with clearly set boundaries. I would like to see these councils send Muslim youth into a Christian church and make them take part in a service, or instruct them on humanist atheism, no chance of that happening though. "Oh, it might cause offence", knee tremble time!


I see boxing promoter Alex Morrison has the great and good after him for his 'waysis' Islamic view. We need to get away from categorising Islam as a race in this country. It's an erroneous and false label.

I'm aware I'm on your "ignore" list but this type of action is not exclusive to Muslim communities.

When I was 10, I was told that I wouldn't be allowed to take part in some of the social activities at my school unless I went to the church services on weekends. I went to a non-denominational school and we had the traditional pageants which marked the major Christian holidays (Easter, Christmas, harvest etc) but threatening to be excluded from social activities because I wouldn't yield was something which I dealt with.

I also experienced this with the Boys Brigade, which I joined because a lot of my friends were members and it was something we did together at a young age - I didn't know it was a Christian youth organisation at that age but again, I was told that I regularly went to the church services or I didn't get to go along to swimming during the week. This one isn't as surprising, being that they are a religious social group but their approach to encouraging attendance wasn't justifiable in my opinion.

Although I disagree with most of your opinions and viewpoints on Islam I keenly agree with your closing remark. It's inaccurate to label Muslims as a race and any hate crimes (which aren't justified regardless of the tag) should be deemed as sectarian.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yeah, hypocrisy rules.

I think you, like the media, have blown this completely out of proportion and the reaction to it has been as ill-informed, offensive and reactionary as the original decision by the 28 sets of parents (not 30, not 32).

"Cows", "cowards", "knuckle-draggers", "loud mouths", "obese", "fag-smoking", "WKD-swilling", "benefit-scrounging", "fascists", "dole bludgers" are the way you've described the parents on this thread alone - you really don't like working class folk, huh? I seem to recall you writing off East Lothian in a similar fashion a while back.

Who mentioned the working class? Possibly your own prejudice coming to the fore.

It wasn't an attack on Newtongrange, Midlothian or any group other than the ignorant, bigoted, ill informed parents who thought they had good reason to object to this trip. I am surprised that the spirit of free thought an radicalism has been lost from mining communities though.

Whether I like the working class is irrelevant - I tend to side with John Lennon on the whole. On this occasion, I fancied a rant, because the actions of those people are against my own principles.

I have spoken about them in the same sort of language I have seen on Facebook and heard in pubs the last couple of weeks. My suppositions are about as reliable as those of the anti Islamic reaction. The irony appears to be lost.

Sorry, but the prospect of living in a country where the mob set the political agenda is not very appetising, and I'd rather do my complaining now, than wait for the cattle trucks to start rolling to Dover.

Who knows, these parents might be well educated, balanced thoughtful people. They may have come to their decision after much soul searching and hours of reasoned argument. You never know - I'm betting most of them think Jeremy Kyle is a current affairs presenter though.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm aware I'm on your "ignore" list but this type of action is not exclusive to Muslim communities.

When I was 10, I was told that I wouldn't be allowed to take part in some of the social activities at my school unless I went to the church services on weekends. I went to a non-denominational school and we had the traditional pageants which marked the major Christian holidays (Easter, Christmas, harvest etc) but threatening to be excluded from social activities because I wouldn't yield was something which I dealt with.

I also experienced this with the Boys Brigade, which I joined because a lot of my friends were members and it was something we did together at a young age - I didn't know it was a Christian youth organisation at that age but again, I was told that I regularly went to the church services or I didn't get to go along to swimming during the week. This one isn't as surprising, being that they are a religious social group but their approach to encouraging attendance wasn't justifiable in my opinion.

Although I disagree with most of your opinions and viewpoints on Islam I keenly agree with your closing remark. It's inaccurate to label Muslims as a race and any hate crimes (which aren't justified regardless of the tag) should be deemed as sectarian.

I used to remember cringing when I went to the BB. My Sunday School card wasn't filled in because my parents thought the family should go a run in the car on a Sunday morning.

Looking back, they were a Christian organisation, but there was no need to be so heavy on an 8 year old. I didn't even like going the runs in the car.

[hibsbollah]

They actually made you get down and face Mecca to pray to their Allah? Pretty bad. If leftist councils are going to inflict this 'community relation' garbage on young children it should be with clearly set boundaries. I would like to see these councils send Muslim youth into a Christian church and make them take part in a service, or instruct them on humanist atheism, no chance of that happening though. "Oh, it might cause offence", knee tremble time!


I see boxing promoter Alex Morrison has the great and good after him for his 'waysis' Islamic view. We need to get away from categorising Islam as a race in this country. It's an erroneous and false label.

So a 'leftist' council is defined as one that allows children near a mosque :hilarious You really are priceless. What local authority would be rightwing enough for you, i wonder? Srebenica circa 1994 maybe.

[lapsedhibee]

I used to remember cringing when I went to the BB. My Sunday School card wasn't filled in because my parents thought the family should go a run in the car on a Sunday morning.

Looking back, they were a Christian organisation, but there was no need to be so heavy on an 8 year old. I didn't even like going the runs in the car.

A car? You were lucky.

[Mon Dieu4]

The BB's were the same when i went, you were not allowed to play for the football team unless you went to Bible Class on the Sunday

Also remember at Primary School at Bonnington we had a fair number of Sikh's and Jehovah's Witnesses, at school assembly we always got bible stories and hymns to sing, the Sikh's and Jehovah's had to sit outside the hall and wait til we were finished

would hope its not like that these days

[SaulGoodman]

They actually made you get down and face Mecca to pray to their Allah? Pretty bad. If leftist councils are going to inflict this 'community relation' garbage on young children it should be with clearly set boundaries. I would like to see these councils send Muslim youth into a Christian church and make them take part in a service, or instruct them on humanist atheism, no chance of that happening though. "Oh, it might cause offence", knee tremble time!


I see boxing promoter Alex Morrison has the great and good after him for his 'waysis' Islamic view. We need to get away from categorising Islam as a race in this country. It's an erroneous and false label.

:agree: exactly that, could you imagine that the other way around? Heads would explode!

[overdrive]

I remember people raving about the food from the mosque kitchen and I promised myself I would go. I eventually found out where it was, a wee alley off West Nicolson Street. I then find out there is another mosque kitchen on the corner of Nicolson Square which is a lot bigger and I assumed they had just moved to bigger premises. However, the one in the wee alley is still there and they both claim to be the original and best mosque kitchen.

What's that all about?:confused:




The Nicolson Sq one is the original despite the confusing name of the one now at the site of the original one if that makes sense.

The operators of the kitchen fell out with the mosque leaders due to perceived financial irregularities.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/popular-restaurant-to-move-premises-amid-bitter-dispute-1-1589405

I had heard at the time that there was some infighting between the Pakistani and Saudi communities within the mosque which may have prompted the move of the kitchen but I've no idea if this is true or not.

The original one (at the new site) has got into bother recently for employing a lot of illegal immigrants so it may not be around much longer!

[Pete]

The Nicolson Sq one is the original despite the confusing name of the one now at the site of the original one if that makes sense.

The operators of the kitchen fell out with the mosque leaders due to perceived financial irregularities.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/popular-restaurant-to-move-premises-amid-bitter-dispute-1-1589405

I had heard at the time that there was some infighting between the Pakistani and Saudi communities within the mosque which may have prompted the move of the kitchen but I've no idea if this is true or not.

The original one (at the new site) has got into bother recently for employing a lot of illegal immigrants so it may not be around much longer!

Cheers for that. :aok:

I'll just have to try both of them.:greengrin

[JohnStephens91]

I'm going to quickly skim over some of the topics already on here:

Religious Education should be stopped after primary school. I left high school four years ago and up until our fourth year we were forced to do RE and there was no exam, it was just compulsory and it was a farce as nobody bothered a leg. I will say that I genuinely don't think I even learned anything, I just sat at the back of the room and started drawing on my jotters. I believe that this view would be shared amongst many that have just left school. There was nothing practical about it, we never visited any house of worship. I even remember once I was asked 'so, can you tell me why you are here and why you have life?' and I responded that it was because my mum and dad had sex. Cue a trip to the head teachers and a punishment exercise.

Visiting a mosque - I understand that there are certain procedures to be following to enter a mosque, but to be asking children to pray is far too much, if I was visiting a mosque at my current age and was asked to pray, I'd just leave. It would be the same at a church or a synagogue. If I visit your religious institution I am not taking part in praying as I am not religious in anyway shape or form, to ask a group of 10 year olds to do so (according to the thread it happened) then it is pretty disgusting as the group could contain Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians, Scientologists etc, if the shoe was on the other foot then the people who practice Islam would not be pleased.

Parents are allowed to stop their children from visiting anywhere they like. If a parent does not believe that the mosque is the environment they wish to send their child then that is that. If I had a child I would send them to the mosque, but not everybody has the same viewpoint of the world as the next person. I was lucky enough to have parents who had come from a rather working class background but also didn't hold viewpoints that may be construed as 'racist' and I've enjoyed growing up around that. Just because you would do something differently doesn't mean that everyone should conform to your viewpoint. There are far bigger things to worry about then a few people from Newtongrange in Midlothian deciding to not send their child to the mosque.

The BB's when I went, it was the one at Tollcross Primary School, didn't force you to church. Me and my friends went because we got to play football and go on camping trips. We had to pray at certain parts of it, I never did and never said amen, I just went to play football and do something with my friends. None of us were religious in the slightest, I'm surprised at hearing how strict they were with some groups. I actually used to see the guy in charge at Easter Road when I sat in the FF Upper. If you're reading hello Mr. Cowe! :greengrin

[LeighLoyal]

'Significant ethnic minority offenders' I'll take as code for religion of peace. Another reason our kids should not be sent to Mosques by crazy councils.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/407931/Scots-police-smash-two-large-paedophile-rings

[hibsbollah]

'Significant ethnic minority offenders' I'll take as code for religion of peace. Another reason our kids should not be sent to Mosques by crazy councils.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/407931/Scots-police-smash-two-large-paedophile-rings

Yes, im sure thats what they get up to at Potterrow. Its a regular Savillepit up there :rolleyes:

Out of interest, does the existence of Saville and his many other paedophiles of the 1970s, tarnish the reputation of all white British people? Because that makes no sense either.

[Beefster]

'Significant ethnic minority offenders' I'll take as code for religion of peace. Another reason our kids should not be sent to Mosques by crazy councils.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/407931/Scots-police-smash-two-large-paedophile-rings

There are Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Athiest paedophiles and more. There are even paedophiles who are teachers and/or parents. Presumably 'our kids' shouldn't be allowed to leave the house or speak to anyone either?

[--------]

I'm going to quickly skim over some of the topics already on here:

Religious Education should be stopped after primary school. I left high school four years ago and up until our fourth year we were forced to do RE and there was no exam, it was just compulsory and it was a farce as nobody bothered a leg. I will say that I genuinely don't think I even learned anything, I just sat at the back of the room and started drawing on my jotters. I believe that this view would be shared amongst many that have just left school. There was nothing practical about it, we never visited any house of worship. I even remember once I was asked 'so, can you tell me why you are here and why you have life?' and I responded that it was because my mum and dad had sex. Cue a trip to the head teachers and a punishment exercise.

Visiting a mosque - I understand that there are certain procedures to be following to enter a mosque, but to be asking children to pray is far too much, if I was visiting a mosque at my current age and was asked to pray, I'd just leave. It would be the same at a church or a synagogue. If I visit your religious institution I am not taking part in praying as I am not religious in anyway shape or form, to ask a group of 10 year olds to do so (according to the thread it happened) then it is pretty disgusting as the group could contain Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians, Scientologists etc, if the shoe was on the other foot then the people who practice Islam would not be pleased.

Parents are allowed to stop their children from visiting anywhere they like. If a parent does not believe that the mosque is the environment they wish to send their child then that is that. If I had a child I would send them to the mosque, but not everybody has the same viewpoint of the world as the next person. I was lucky enough to have parents who had come from a rather working class background but also didn't hold viewpoints that may be construed as 'racist' and I've enjoyed growing up around that. Just because you would do something differently doesn't mean that everyone should conform to your viewpoint. There are far bigger things to worry about then a few people from Newtongrange in Midlothian deciding to not send their child to the mosque.

The BB's when I went, it was the one at Tollcross Primary School, didn't force you to church. Me and my friends went because we got to play football and go on camping trips. We had to pray at certain parts of it, I never did and never said amen, I just went to play football and do something with my friends. None of us were religious in the slightest, I'm surprised at hearing how strict they were with some groups. I actually used to see the guy in charge at Easter Road when I sat in the FF Upper. If you're reading hello Mr. Cowe! :greengrin

Pretty much the same experience of RE at Secondary as I had - nobody bothered, not us, not the teachers, and not many of the parents either. Assemblies were a joke mainly because most of the speakers (ministers, mostly) had no idea how to communicate with teenagers and were really boring. If a school isn't prepared to do something properly, it shouldn't do it at all. Anything else discredits the subject and the school, in my opinion.

As a primary school visitor I would never speak to any children about someone else's religion - I wouldn't want a Muslim or a Hindu to speak to them about Christianity, after all.

My job is to fit in with the structure and ethos set by the Head teacher and School Board; they're at liberty at any time to decide to dispense with my services if they're not happy with what I'm saying or doing. This is true for any chaplain or 'faith' visitor in non-denominational schools.

And any parent can have his or her child kept out of assemblies taken by myself or by any of the other chaplains - all they have to do is phone the school.

I would be very opposed to the state having the power to overrule the parents' authority to decide what their children are taught in the area of religion - smacks to me of the thin end of a fascist wedge. The head teacher and his/her School Board know their community much better than local or national government bodies do, and certainly where I am right now, things work pretty well. A lot depends, of course, on the common-sense of the visitors and chaplains, but I can say that in a previous parish I co-operated with the Free Church minister in a primary school where the Head teacher was RC without any problems at all. Mutual respect for one another and for the parents' wishes was the key. In the High School we worked equally well, along with the local RC priest - again, mutual respect.

In all my time I can truthfully say that NO child has ever been forced in any school I worked with to do anything with which they and their parents weren't fully in agreement. there are laws in place to guarantee this.

Even a radical and fundamental disagreement with someone doesn't mean we should disrespect them. I know who and what I believe, and if I'm asked I will endeavour to explain that belief, but if someone doesn't want to hear what I have to say (or doesn't want his/her child to hear what I have to say) that's the end of the matter. I have NO right to try to force the issue.

If a parent or parents don't wish their child to visit a mosque, then that too should be the end of the matter, though the head teacher might want to explore with them their reasons for refusing permission.