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NeilOrrSquareBa
05-06-2013, 12:15 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:

Squealing pig
05-06-2013, 12:16 PM
Amen

SaulGoodman
05-06-2013, 12:18 PM
Isn't that what every football team in the world aims to do?

AngusHibby
05-06-2013, 12:19 PM
Wow, genius!

SunshineOnLeith
05-06-2013, 12:29 PM
What if the teams around us also decide to win their games against the teams around them?

Hibbyradge
05-06-2013, 12:35 PM
What if the teams around us also decide to win their games against the teams around them?

And what if other teams sign player capable of taking them up several levels? :dunno:

green.and.white
05-06-2013, 12:38 PM
And what if other teams sign player capable of taking them up several levels? :dunno:

Hmmm, it's as if doing those three things isn't as simple as we thought.... I really thought we were on to something there :greengrin

Lucius Apuleius
05-06-2013, 12:38 PM
And what if other teams sign player capable of taking them up several levels? :dunno:

And they could even design a fitness and training regime that would bring out the best in their players.

Damn this is getting complicated.

Stringer
05-06-2013, 12:41 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:


This is the main one.

davemcbain
05-06-2013, 12:45 PM
Change our name to the the rangers thus ensuring oodles of tv revenue no matter how poor or what division we're in. :wink:

God Petrie
05-06-2013, 12:53 PM
I think if we score more goals than the opposition in all our games this season we have an excellent chance of first place…

Salisbury Hibby
05-06-2013, 02:36 PM
Easter Road has got to become a fortress. Just not acceptable for the likes of St. Johnstone and Ross County to come and get a result. I am confidently looking forward to next season, though.

scuttle
05-06-2013, 02:49 PM
Buy decent players, break the wage structure, play attacking football

HibeeMG
05-06-2013, 02:55 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:

If we are 2nd and we win our matches against the teams below us (10 of them) and the other one around us (Celtic) we wouldn't be 2nd.

It's a paradox! :confused:

hibs4thecup1988
05-06-2013, 03:11 PM
I get what the OP is getting at but I'm still :faf:

Wilson
05-06-2013, 03:13 PM
Buy decent players, break the wage structure, play attacking football

People tend to obsess about the wage structure. Breaking it doesn't guarantee success. Look at Hearts.

KT was one if our more motivated players at the end of the season and he wasn't earning a thing (supposedly).

Loan signings won't break the bank. Young talent breaking through won't either.

What we need is sustained growth (crowds). A prolonged period of relative on field success would help. We need contingencies in place when we lose a manager or top player instead of being hit for 6 every time it happens.

Being better managed from top to bottom in short.

There is no one season fix for our ills.

Scouse Hibee
05-06-2013, 03:14 PM
From another thread, the stock answer is leave it to the manager, that's what we pay him for :wink:

itslegaltender
05-06-2013, 03:26 PM
Sign


McFadden
Griffiths
McManus
Hateley


Job done.:aok:

Waxy
05-06-2013, 03:32 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:Get more points than ten teams but less points than one team.

danhibees1875
05-06-2013, 03:35 PM
If we pick up points on the road and of course win our home games then anything is possible. :agree:

hibs4thecup1988
05-06-2013, 03:50 PM
Sign


McFadden
Griffiths
McManus
Hateley


Job done.:aok:

Done know if tam McManus still plays??

leithsansiro
05-06-2013, 03:54 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:


Nope, none of these are priorities. My three things would be;

Offering players inflated salaries which in no way match their abilities
Signing players on loan from eastern European leagues that probably aren't better than local Scottish talent
Ensuring that a steady stream of sex offenders are making their way into the club.


Yours sincerely,
Vlad

TAHibby
05-06-2013, 04:38 PM
Fenlon out, NeilOrrSquareBa in.

jdships
05-06-2013, 04:45 PM
Wow, genius!

:top marks
OP go to the top of the class
:wink::greengrin

Northernhibee
05-06-2013, 04:55 PM
I was thinking we should sign failed Irish league one players on the last day of the window, never practise throw ins and not really win any games after Christmas.

If it ain't broke... :greengrin

scuttle
05-06-2013, 05:03 PM
People tend to obsess about the wage structure. Breaking it doesn't guarantee success. Look at Hearts.

KT was one if our more motivated players at the end of the season and he wasn't earning a thing (supposedly).

.Loan signings won't break the bank. Young talent breaking through won't either

What we need is sustained growth (crowds). A prolonged period of relative on field success would help. We need contingencies in place when we lose a manager or top player instead of being hit for 6 every time it happens.

Being better managed from top to bottom in short.

There is no one season fix for our ills.


is that not where we are at present,loans and youngsters coming through. And how do we sustain growth if we are not investing in the playing staff ?

Bostonhibby
05-06-2013, 05:27 PM
3 things Hibernian FC could do to make us the 2nd force in Scottish football next season

1. Sign players capable of taking the club up several levels

2. Design and execute a fitness and training regime that maximises the potential our players can have

3. Win our matches against teams below and around us.
:thumbsup:

All of the above, simple really :wink:

I am actually thinking it might just be about finishing above Dundee utd being enough:greengrin

GreenOnions
05-06-2013, 05:43 PM
"2nd force" implies some level of sustained achievement so I'm going to go for:

1) Give our managers a reasonable length of time to achieve success. The average spell a manager spends at a club is getting shorter and shorter. This costs a fortune in settlements and often leads to inflated squads (with obvious knock-on effects on salary expenditure), disgruntled players, a short term outlook and a lack of continuity.
2) Continue to be imaginitive and forward-thinking re ticket pricing. I understand the risks associated with radical change in this area but continued experimentation is important. Personally - I am keen on going further to encourage regular attendance by kids. Once you get the bug when you're young it's hard to shake off isn't it? Maybe it would be a real boost in the medium to long term if we could do something that really worked in terms of increasing attendance by kids under 10? The club already do a lot in this regard but I'd be keen to see us go further - perhaps making attendance free at Cat "B" games (even for PATG) for kids under 10 if accompanied by a paying adult?

NeilOrrSquareBa
05-06-2013, 05:54 PM
Fenlon out, NeilOrrSquareBa in.

Modesty and the lack of an appropriate CV (uless you call shouting advice from the stands at regular intervals in various stages of apoplexy appropriate)
prevents my accepting this humbling nomination!:greengrin

Whilst my original summary is, in part, in jest the consistent failure of managers and club to come up with a formula that offers any type of sutainable challenge over the past 35 years suggests we do need to POINT OUT THE BLEEDIN' OBVIOUS to the club!!:aok:

Wilson
05-06-2013, 05:54 PM
is that not where we are at present,loans and youngsters coming through. And how do we sustain growth if we are not investing in the playing staff ?

We are there. I don't think we are doing much wrong merely that the results haven't followed.

There is perhaps a vision but we haven't had the consistency brought by being able to back any one manager long enough to see the job through. It is longer term and sustained growth we need.

We depend on more success in our investment in youth.

Speedway
05-06-2013, 07:14 PM
Our cup strategy is key to our success next season. In a cup tie, that one that wins goes through until they reach the final and we need to be aiming to be a team that goes through in each cup tie that we're in except the final went we can't go through but we should defo look to win that one as well anyway because trophies get awarded to teams who win cup finals and we should be looking to win cup finals, especially when they are against another team.

.Sean.
05-06-2013, 07:16 PM
1. Funds permitting, buy a season ticket

2. Funds permitting, buy a season ticket

3. Funds permitting, buy a season ticket

hibadelic
05-06-2013, 11:40 PM
My girlfriend suggests that we should try to just "put the ball in the net more". I think she might be on to something. Perhaps all we need to do is make sure we put the ball in the opposition net at least once more than they put it into ours. :aok:

Wilson
06-06-2013, 01:03 AM
My girlfriend suggests that we should try to just "put the ball in the net more". I think she might be on to something. Perhaps all we need to do is make sure we put the ball in the opposition net at least once more than they put it into ours. :aok:

Hope she looks good. Doesn't sound like you're with her for the insightful chat...

AgentDaleCooper
06-06-2013, 02:39 AM
this is a really great thread, IMO - it's really got me thinking.

the job facing petrie and fenlon is so FFFFing simple, and the answer has been staring us in the face for...well, over a hundred years.

this is all we need to do - NEVER LOOSE OR DRAW ANOTHER GAME. we just need to promise ourselves that we will NEVER let it happen again. can it really be so hard? with the right mind-set, any game is winnable. it's just 11 men against 11 men.

i really hope pat reads my post here, and has a good think about it. i mean, those two cup finals...did we have to loose them? no. why did we loose them? because noone ever thought about the possibility of NEVER loosing again.

imagine if calderwood has thought of this when he first joined us. where would we be now? well, i think you all know where - suffice to say, some where that bayern would no longer be. and that is a fact that noone can deny. it's not just a fact, it's basically maths. no loosing/drawing = omni-winning.

FACT.

THIS.

END OF.

ADMINS PLEASE CLOSE THREAD.

--------
06-06-2013, 03:09 PM
"2nd force" implies some level of sustained achievement so I'm going to go for:

1) Give our managers a reasonable length of time to achieve success. The average spell a manager spends at a club is getting shorter and shorter. This costs a fortune in settlements and often leads to inflated squads (with obvious knock-on effects on salary expenditure), disgruntled players, a short term outlook and a lack of continuity.
2) Continue to be imaginative and forward-thinking re ticket pricing. I understand the risks associated with radical change in this area but continued experimentation is important. Personally - I am keen on going further to encourage regular attendance by kids. Once you get the bug when you're young it's hard to shake off isn't it? Maybe it would be a real boost in the medium to long term if we could do something that really worked in terms of increasing attendance by kids under 10? The club already do a lot in this regard but I'd be keen to see us go further - perhaps making attendance free at Cat "B" games (even for PATG) for kids under 10 if accompanied by a paying adult?


Point (1) is vital - our managerial record since Alex Miller left has been appalling. I count Scott, Duffy, McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Craig, Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and now Pat Fenlon have all been in charge of the first team for a longer or shorter period (mostly shorter) since early 1996. That's 12 managers in 17 years, and average stay of a year and 5 months if you include a couple of caretakers, Scott and Craig. Take them out and it's a year and 8 and a half months. Right now pat Fenlon is just coming up to that average. What's really scary is that if he serves out his contract, he'll be our longest-serving team boss since Alex Miller. That'd be 3 and a half years.

No business can prosper with that sort of managerial turnover. At ER the result of this high rate of turnover has been, as you say, huge numbers of players in and out of the club, a complete absence of long-term planning, disgruntled players and disaffected fans. How long did it take before someone came on here seriously advocating the dismissal of Pat Fenlon? IIRC, a couple of months.

To be a force in Scottish football - forget second force or third force and any other number, just to be a respectable competitor in the SPL and the two domestic Cups - Hibs need to develop their own players from school-age entry through to first-team football and progression to the EPL and beyond. If the contractual end of the business is done properly, these young players not only fill our team squad for a number of seasons, the fees their transfers attract can be a huge factor in achieving financial stability. Financial stability means we can then offer better terms to experienced players in the windows to stiffen the squad and help bring on the younger players. Better terms offered means better players staying for longer.

IMO it comes back to stability, the right manager (who has to be backed by both the board and the fans), and a structure that allows the club to put a team on the pitch that feels a commitment to the club and the supporters, a team capable of competing with any and all of the other teams in the SPL.

As far as pricing is concerned, I totally agree that a bit of imagination - even risk-taking - could pay dividends. But why stop as special promos for kids? We should be targeting all sorts of groupings within the wider community to attract them to games.

I would also go for a synthetic playing surface - the best we can afford - that would allow ER to be used a lot more than at present. The stadium is the visible presence of the club in the community. Hibs have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of it. We should be finding ways of using it to develop our position in the city. Neither our stadium nor our training-ground would be out of place in the top half of the English Championship or even the lower reaches of the EPL. It would be great if one day we could say the same about the team on the pitch.

DH1875
06-06-2013, 03:25 PM
Sign


McFadden
Griffiths
McManus
Hateley


Job done.:aok:


That's four things :confused:.

To be fair I don't think it would take that much for us to come 2nd. The key is building a team that can beat everyone else (celtic apart) and to my mind that wouldn't break the bank. Biggest thing though would be for everyone connected to/with the club to stop accepting this bottom 6 crap. In general world footballing terms we might be small fry and not up to much but in the SPL we ARE a big team and should regard ourselves as a big club.

JimBHibees
06-06-2013, 03:28 PM
Point (1) is vital - our managerial record since Alex Miller left has been appalling. I count Scott, Duffy, McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Craig, Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and now Pat Fenlon have all been in charge of the first team for a longer or shorter period (mostly shorter) since early 1996. That's 12 managers in 17 years, and average stay of a year and 5 months if you include a couple of caretakers, Scott and Craig. Take them out and it's a year and 8 and a half months. Right now pat Fenlon is just coming up to that average. What's really scary is that if he serves out his contract, he'll be our longest-serving team boss since Alex Miller. That'd be 3 and a half years.

No business can prosper with that sort of managerial turnover. At ER the result of this high rate of turnover has been, as you say, huge numbers of players in and out of the club, a complete absence of long-term planning, disgruntled players and disaffected fans. How long did it take before someone came on here seriously advocating the dismissal of Pat Fenlon? IIRC, a couple of months.

To be a force in Scottish football - forget second force or third force and any other number, just to be a respectable competitor in the SPL and the two domestic Cups - Hibs need to develop their own players from school-age entry through to first-team football and progression to the EPL and beyond. If the contractual end of the business is done properly, these young players not only fill our team squad for a number of seasons, the fees their transfers attract can be a huge factor in achieving financial stability. Financial stability means we can then offer better terms to experienced players in the windows to stiffen the squad and help bring on the younger players. Better terms offered means better players staying for longer.

IMO it comes back to stability, the right manager (who has to be backed by both the board and the fans), and a structure that allows the club to put a team on the pitch that feels a commitment to the club and the supporters, a team capable of competing with any and all of the other teams in the SPL.

As far as pricing is concerned, I totally agree that a bit of imagination - even risk-taking - could pay dividends. But why stop as special promos for kids? We should be targeting all sorts of groupings within the wider community to attract them to games.

I would also go for a synthetic playing surface - the best we can afford - that would allow ER to be used a lot more than at present. The stadium is the visible presence of the club in the community. Hibs have absolutely no reason to be ashamed of it. We should be finding ways of using it to develop our position in the city. Neither our stadium nor our training-ground would be out of place in the top half of the English Championship or even the lower reaches of the EPL. It would be great if one day we could say the same about the team on the pitch.

Fabulous post and agree with all of it. We need managers to be given a proper length of time to put their stamp on the club. They need to be able to look longer term and fail to an extent for the greater longer term good. Also agree about the pitch.

deeks01
06-06-2013, 06:37 PM
1) Win More Games

2) Draw Less Games

3) Lose Less Games

:thumbsup:

Onion
07-06-2013, 08:57 AM
Adopt a boom and bust business strategy knowing that the penalties for failure of the business such as signing embargoes don't actually stop you signing decent players, that the council , HMRC, fans and press will Ben over to protect you and any trophies or assets acquired during boom phase can be kept or bought for peanuts.

jacomo
07-06-2013, 12:56 PM
What if the teams around us also decide to win their games against the teams around them?


And what if other teams sign player capable of taking them up several levels? :dunno:

The ********!

It's almost as if our opponents are trying to prevent us from winning? Shocking if true.