Garcia & Woods Row

[DaveF]

After Garcia's apology for 'fried chickengate' I read that the European Tour top man has had to unreservedly apologise for using the term 'coloured athletes' when doing an interview for Sky

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/22636894

A case of a golf club mentality or just a bloke who isn't up to date with what's good and bad to say?

[Jonnyboy]

A case of political correctness gone mad IMO Dave. I like fried chicken - and I'm white

[Beefster]

A case of political correctness gone mad IMO Dave. I like fried chicken - and I'm white

Apparently it's used as a racial stereotype in the US.

[barcahibs]

I've mentioned on this site before that I have a mental health issue which affects how I deal with other people (basically extreme shyness). One of the manifestations of this is that I will go to almost any length to avoid insulting or upsetting another person - to me the thought of giving offence to another person breaks me out in a cold sweat. Though this is an issue I am working to overcome - to the extent that I can now happily insult both hertz and celgers fans without a moments remorse.

Up til today I had no idea that the concept of fried chicken could be considered offensive. I have to admit that I also sort of thought that the term 'coloured' was the correct, politically acceptable way to describe someone who is black - and that saying 'black' was a bit racist. (one of the side effects of having social phobia is that you don't have a huge social circle so I admit that I'm very sheltered in this respect)

The upshot of this is that I'm in the position where I'm too scared to approach or speak to anyone with a different ethnic background to myself for fear of inadvertently giving offence. I genuinely spend my time worrying about this sort of thing. (which I'm aware is pathetic but hey, its the truth).

Anyway, the point of this rambling post is that isn't this a horrific position for society to have allowed itself to get in? Where subtle nuances of word choice brand someone as being racist and where people of different ethnic backgrounds are separated by the dictionary - surely it should be the attitude beneath the words that counts not the words themselves?

[Hibrandenburg]

I've mentioned on this site before that I have a mental health issue which affects how I deal with other people (basically extreme shyness). One of the manifestations of this is that I will go to almost any length to avoid insulting or upsetting another person - to me the thought of giving offence to another person breaks me out in a cold sweat. Though this is an issue I am working to overcome - to the extent that I can now happily insult both hertz and celgers fans without a moments remorse.

Up til today I had no idea that the concept of fried chicken could be considered offensive. I have to admit that I also sort of thought that the term 'coloured' was the correct, politically acceptable way to describe someone who is black - and that saying 'black' was a bit racist. (one of the side effects of having social phobia is that you don't have a huge social circle so I admit that I'm very sheltered in this respect)

The upshot of this is that I'm in the position where I'm too scared to approach or speak to anyone with a different ethnic background to myself for fear of inadvertently giving offence. I genuinely spend my time worrying about this sort of thing. (which I'm aware is pathetic but hey, its the truth).

Anyway, the point of this rambling post is that isn't this a horrific position for society to have allowed itself to get in? Where subtle nuances of word choice brand someone as being racist and where people of different ethnic backgrounds are separated by the dictionary - surely it should be the attitude beneath the words that counts not the words themselves?

Good post.

[Jonnyboy]

Apparently it's used as a racial stereotype in the US.

I understand that but still feel a mountain has been made out of a molehill. I also find the concept of Tiger Woods being upset by these words quite hysterical.

[lapsedhibee]

I understand that but still feel a mountain has been made out of a molehill. I also find the concept of Tiger Woods being upset by these words quite hysterical.

Find your remarks there a bit inappropriate to be honest. Probably go down well somewhere like kickback, but shirley on this forum the approved expression is "out of a molehole"?

[calumhibee1]

I understand that but still feel a mountain has been made out of a molehill. I also find the concept of Tiger Woods being upset by these words quite hysterical.

:agree: I know everybody is different, but if somebody said that they were going to have me round and we could have haggis every night it certainly wouldn't upset me.. and I don't even like haggis!

[IWasThere2016]

I understand that but still feel a mountain has been made out of a molehill. I also find the concept of Tiger Woods being upset by these words quite hysterical.

Yes - poor wee serial adulterer is a sensitive, considerate wee soul really and clearly doesn't like to be hurt or hurt :rolleyes:

[500miles]

Tiger Woods seems to be offended by some banal stereotype about black people eating fried chicken, but perpetuates the nasty stereotype about black men being untrustworthy, promiscuous and treating women badly. Not a stereotype I agree with by the way, but certainly one he has done his best to give weight to.

Quite frankly, if Sergio Garcia said he was having Van De Velde around for frogs legs and wine, no one would have batted an eyelid.

[lord bunberry]

These things can be a real minefield, my dad and my girlfriend both use the term coloured when referring to black people, not because they are racist but because that's what they think the correct term is to use. My girlfriend thought it was racist to refer to someone as black. I'm presuming that at some point in the past that the term coloured was the accepted term to use

[Hiber-nation]

All goes back to the Fuzzy Zoeller incident. Not clever.

[RyeSloan]

Tiger Woods seems to be offended by some banal stereotype about black people eating fried chicken, but perpetuates the nasty stereotype about black men being untrustworthy, promiscuous and treating women badly. Not a stereotype I agree with by the way, but certainly one he has done his best to give weight to.

Quite frankly, if Sergio Garcia said he was having Van De Velde around for frogs legs and wine, no one would have batted an eyelid.

But one would be referring to van de velde being French the other was referring to the colour of tigers skin.

[Beefster]

These things can be a real minefield, my dad and my girlfriend both use the term coloured when referring to black people, not because they are racist but because that's what they think the correct term is to use. My girlfriend thought it was racist to refer to someone as black. I'm presuming that at some point in the past that the term coloured was the accepted term to use

'Coloured' was acceptable when it was acceptable to lump all non-white people into one group, irrespective of their actual race.


Tiger Woods seems to be offended by some banal stereotype about black people eating fried chicken, but perpetuates the nasty stereotype about black men being untrustworthy, promiscuous and treating women badly. Not a stereotype I agree with by the way, but certainly one he has done his best to give weight to.

Quite frankly, if Sergio Garcia said he was having Van De Velde around for frogs legs and wine, no one would have batted an eyelid.

We get this argument quite a lot on here. It's the same as the "I get called a Jock and don't take offence" argument but spectacularly misses the point IMHO.

Your first paragraph is pish btw. Aside from how offensive they are, your stereotypes are from the dark ages. Some white folk are twats. That doesn't perpetuate a stereotype that all white folk are twats.

[Peevemor]

'Coloured' was acceptable when it was acceptable to lump all non-white people into one group, irrespective of their actual race.


I disagree - 'coloured' was generally used for people that would politically correctly be refereed to as 'black' now. Somebody decided to change the rules without informing lot of non racist, well intentioned people. Those same people were made to understand that calling someone 'black' was bad - now they have to change their ways.

[Beefster]

I disagree - 'coloured' was generally used for people that would politically correctly be refereed to as 'black' now. Somebody decided to change the rules without informing lot of non racist, well intentioned people. Those same people were made to understand that calling someone 'black' was bad - now they have to change their ways.

You may be right about some folk but 'coloured' was also used as a catch-all for blacks, Asians and any non-white. That's why it's unacceptable.

[Peevemor]

You may be right about some folk but 'coloured' was also used as a catch-all for blacks, Asians and any non-white. That's why it's unacceptable.

Whatever - 'mon the Hibs! :pfgwa

[Betty Boop]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/06/kfc-advertisement-accused-of-racism

[lapsedhibee]

You may be right about some folk but 'coloured' was also used as a catch-all for blacks, Asians and any non-white. That's why it's unacceptable.

In some quarters (http://www.econobee.co.za/bee-articles-and-information/press-articles/the-impact-of-chinese-as-black-on-your-bee-scorecard.html) black is now used as the catch-all.

[Beefster]

In some quarters (http://www.econobee.co.za/bee-articles-and-information/press-articles/the-impact-of-chinese-as-black-on-your-bee-scorecard.html) black is now used as the catch-all.

South Africa is a completely different kettle of fish and always has been.

[heretoday]

We really need the rules of political correctness laid down somewhere. I'm confused.

Perhaps Edinburgh council would care to leaflet us all with some info.

There's bound to be a highly paid researcher in Market St who could do this.

[Beefster]

We really need the rules of political correctness laid down somewhere. I'm confused.

Perhaps Edinburgh council would care to leaflet us all with some info.

There's bound to be a highly paid researcher in Market St who could do this.

Google is your friend.

http://www.universities-scotland.ac.uk/raceequalitytoolkit/terminology.htm

[heretoday]

Google is your friend.

http://www.universities-scotland.ac.uk/raceequalitytoolkit/terminology.htm

Thanks. I'll have a good look at that. At the end of the day it all depends on the context I suppose.

[LeighLoyal]

I thought Woods only addiction was white woman, fried chicken defo not on his menu.

[Beefster]

I thought Woods only addiction was white woman, fried chicken defo not on his menu.

I've enjoyed the far right/EDL slant that you've brought to threads about race this week. Reminds me of why I abhor racism and discrimination in general.

[Sylar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/06/kfc-advertisement-accused-of-racism

That is laughably embarrassing for anyone to claim that to be racist.

[Gerard]

Perhaps the safe thing to do is not to discuss any topic with Tiger Woods so that no offense can happen

[500miles]

But one would be referring to van de velde being French the other was referring to the colour of tigers skin.

As far as I know, the Fried Chicken thing is only ever used as joke with black Americans. I've never really heard it used regarding any other groups of black people.

[500miles]

Perhaps the safe thing to do is not to discuss any topic with Tiger Woods so that no offense can happen

Yeah. We should all be super nice to each other, hold hands when crossing the road, and watch the One Show. What a ******ing laugh life will be then!

[500miles]

'Coloured' was acceptable when it was acceptable to lump all non-white people into one group, irrespective of their actual race.



We get this argument quite a lot on here. It's the same as the "I get called a Jock and don't take offence" argument but spectacularly misses the point IMHO.

Your first paragraph is pish btw. Aside from how offensive they are, your stereotypes are from the dark ages. Some white folk are twats. That doesn't perpetuate a stereotype that all white folk are twats.

To be honest, I was just using the opportunity to take a pop at Tiger Woods, but since you seem mortally offended, please tell me the point I am missing? Apparently a fondness of fried chicken a horrific accusation, but the stereotypes i mentioned don't exist anymore, which is good news?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Would Woods knock back a £5m sponsorship deal from KFC ?

[--------]

As far as I know, the Fried Chicken thing is only ever used as joke with black Americans. I've never really heard it used regarding any other groups of black people.


It's not a joke.

It's a racial slur referring back to the days of slavery, when chickens were the only livestock a slave was allowed to keep.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2011/11/obama_fried_chicken_incident_explaining_racist_foo d_stereotypes.html

It's rooted in white supremacy and the oppression of African Americans in the days of segregation and discrimination and inequality. Woods has every right to feel angry and insulted, and Garcia should have known better - but then Spanish sport has a pretty poor record in terms of the racial abuse of opponents, IIRC.

It's the same sort of insult as a "white" man calling an African American "boy". It's the sort of comment I would expect to hear from a Mississippi redneck driving by in his pick-up truck (the one with the Stars-and-Bars sticker on the back bumper and his faithful 'coon-dawg riding shotgun in the cab) 0n his way to the weekly meeting of the local Klavern and all the rest of the good ol' boys.

Nor am I surprised that the world of golf appears to be a bit bemused by the affair - it was only in 1990 that Augusta National admitted African Americans as members - until then the only way an African American could walk round Augusta National was if he was carrying Massa's golf-clubs.

[Pretty Boy]

Feela bit for the guy from the European Tour. Think that was a genuine mistake and more a case of foot in mouth syndrome than anything.

As for Garcia, I can't help but feel he knew exactly what he was saying.

[--------]

Feel a bit for the guy from the European Tour. Think that was a genuine mistake and more a case of foot in mouth syndrome than anything.


As for Garcia, I can't help but feel he knew exactly what he was saying.


It can be a bit tricky knowing exactly how to refer to certain groups of people these days, right enough.

Once upon a time "whites" (or should we go with George Orwell and refer to Caucasians as "pinko-grey"?) who were a wee bit too civilised to talk about "darkies" or "******s" (anyone watch "The Dambusters" last weekend?) or "coons" would speak about "people of colour". "Coloured" has connotations of Verwoerd and Botha and the apartheid years in SA; "black" used to be OK for people of Afro-Caribbean descent, but then there were complaints that "black" has connotations of evil.

And then how exactly are you supposed to refer to people with disabilities? Am I already way over the line using the D-word?

As dear old Spike used to say in "The Goon Show", it's all rather confusing, really.

I really try to ignore these things these days - people are people are people. TWO things I've learned over the years, though - NEVER mistake a Canadian for an American, and NEVER mix up Aussies and Kiwis.

And no freakin' Englishman (or woman) better call ME "Jock".

[NOLA]

Would Woods knock back a £5m sponsorship deal from KFC ?
woods embracing good ol boy colonel sanders lol

[Sylar]

Not been called a "Jock" down here yet but one individual in our department keeps calling me an "och aye".

Eh'm pure offended 'n that likes, ken...? :rolleyes:

[magpie1892]

I've enjoyed the far right/EDL slant that you've brought to threads about race this week. Reminds me of why I abhor racism and discrimination in general.

What was the 'ethnic origin' (is that OK this week as a descriptor?) of all of those of Woods' consorts who ended up in the papers?

Like the little ad hom you stuck in there for good measure as well. Really adds to the quality of debate.

[Scouse Hibee]

Love Thy Neighbour

[Andy74]

For anyone thinking Woods was a bit sensitive here. Where did you stand on the Skacel song?

[Beefster]

What was the 'ethnic origin' (is that OK this week as a descriptor?) of all of those of Woods' consorts who ended up in the papers?

Like the little ad hom you stuck in there for good measure as well. Really adds to the quality of debate.

How is the race of his girlfriends relevant to a debate about someone using a racial stereotype about him? Do folk get described as being 'addicted' to a certain type of partner often?

When I made the supposed ad hominem attack, I had spent days reading far right views from the poster in question and stuff about the EDL. I don't see the problem with pointing that out.

[Golden Bear]

So are white folk not coloured?

[NOLA]

So are white folk not coloured?

I thought whiteys were pink

[lord bunberry]

I thought whiteys were pink

I'm white with brown and red patches when I've been on holiday

[--------]

For anyone thinking Woods was a bit sensitive here. Where did you stand on the Skacel song?


Loathed it, Andy. Embarrassed to hear supporters of a club with Hibernian's history singing ignorant racist crap like that. Skacel seems to be a fairly unpleasant piece of work, but that sort of song said far more about the character of the idiots singing it than it did about him.

I've been called a number of things by Englishmen over the years. Most have the courtesy to address me by name, but some have called me "Jock", some "Jocko", one referred to me as a "sweaty sock" but he left the building ratrher rapidly before I could express my thanks to him for the compliment. One or two have addressed me as "CU Jimmy". It's all offensive; it's all racist; and every time it happens, I express my opinion clearly and precisely to the moron who offended me.

And no, I DON'T consider I'm being over-sensitive.

As I've said, in the States the "fried chicken" remark, addressed by a Caucasian to an African-American, is a racial insult, and Woods was perfectly reasonably angry when Garcia used it refering to him.

[Sylar]

Loathed it, Andy. Embarrassed to hear supporters of a club with Hibernian's history singing ignorant racist crap like that. Skacel seems to be a fairly unpleasant piece of work, but that sort of song said far more about the character of the idiots singing it than it did about him.

I've been called a number of things by Englishmen over the years. Most have the courtesy to address me by name, but some have called me "Jock", some "Jocko", one referred to me as a "sweaty sock" but he left the building ratrher rapidly before I could express my thanks to him for the compliment. One or two have addressed me as "CU Jimmy". It's all offensive; it's all racist; and every time it happens, I express my opinion clearly and precisely to the moron who offended me.

And no, I DON'T consider I'm being over-sensitive.

As I've said, in the States the "fried chicken" remark, addressed by a Caucasian to an African-American, is a racial insult, and Woods was perfectly reasonably angry when Garcia used it refering to him.

Was he though (angry)? From what I've read, he expressed disappointment but stated he wasn't surprised that it still exists in sport.

The anger and outrage appears to have come from all other quarters on Woods' behalf (as you say, reasonably so).

[--------]

Was he though (angry)? From what I've read, he expressed disappointment but stated he wasn't surprised that it still exists in sport.

The anger and outrage appears to have come from all other quarters on Woods' behalf (as you say, reasonably so).


Maybe he wasn't 'angry' - he certainly wasn't chuffed to get the invitation. The thing I can't understand is how people can take the view that he shouldn't have been disappointed/offended/offended/whatever. Garcia was well out of order - it was a nasty, snide comment and the sort of thing he (and others) should be picked up on.