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Mikey
17-05-2013, 03:21 PM
With the SPL mulling over their decision on Hearts I thought it would be worthwhile looking at it from Hearts point of view. These are the points that they're likely to use in their defence, closely followed by some very uncomfortable facts that blow them out of the water :wink:



No insolvency event has taken place...

The SPL rules definition of an insolvency event includes "ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction....." UBIG have formed such an intention by declaring their insolvency. The definition also includes "have any proceedings or step taken....in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing." The entry on the list of insolvent companies is a formal declaration and constitutes such proceeding or step.



HoMFC are now independent of UBIG...

Each of HoMFC's directors was also a director of UBIG until they resigned leaving UBIG without a board. All but one were paid by UBIG and not by HoMFC. UBIG owns a working majority of the share capital of HoMFC and the majority owner of UBIG was prominent in the operation of HoMFC, to the extent of interviewing and appointing managers and players. Financially UBIG have provided and effectively written off £40m worth of finance over 7 years and HoMFC remain indebted to the tune of £10m plus £15 owed to Ukio which was also under common control.

Further evidence that Hearts are not independent of UBIG can be found here...

"In 2005, UBIG became a shareholder in the Scottish football club Heart of Midlothian (generally called Hearts) and has been actively participating in its management since that time."

Taken from.... http://www.ubig.lt/index.php/projektai/sports/heart_of_midlothian_football_club/134

And from Note 22, on page 22 of their latest accounts.

22. Control

" The company's parent company is UAB Ukio banko Investicine Grupe, which is incorporated in Lithuania and controlled by Vladimir Romanov "



HoMFC are now self-sufficient...

The latest available accounts show that UBIG provided a further £2.7m of finance for the year in question. In addition, the future of the club is entirely dependent on unquantified income streams from player sales and a membership scheme that has yet to be publicised. By the club's own admission their survival since the last balance sheet date has only been possible through the raising of £1m from a share issue - which required the consent and participation of UBIG as majority shareholder. Six months after closure of the offer those shares have not yet been issued or registered, but the funds have been retained by the owner and operator of HoMFC (as defined by Lord Nimmo-Smith).



UBIG's failure is a 'Force Majeure'...

As shown above, UBIG have pumped £40m into HoMFC that they will never get back, plus a further £25m that looks doubtful. The warning signs, including an inability to pay their players on time, and inability on the part of HoMFC to pay their debts as they fell due, the failure of Ukio and and the resignation of the entire board of UBIG have been in place for a long time. The definition of a 'Force Majeure Event' in the SPL rules is one that was unforeseeable and unavoidable. This was neither.



None of this is speculation, it is fact.

The prosecution rests.

Off the bar
17-05-2013, 03:35 PM
game, set and match it's been unpleasant knowing them.

I'm_cabbaged
17-05-2013, 03:35 PM
Great post Mikey, I never knew you had it in you!! ;) I suppose the hatred towards the yams and not to mention a wee bet can push you to levels you never thought you had in you!!

HibbyAndy
17-05-2013, 03:36 PM
Cheating *****!!!! Relegate thum.

MacBean
17-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Get it sent to SPL, SFA, DFC, anybody, everybody

Treadstone
17-05-2013, 03:50 PM
And from Note 22, on page 22 of their latest accounts.

22. Control

" The company's parent company is UAB Ukio banko Investicine Grupe, which is incorporated in Lithuania and controlled by Vladimir Romanov "


And signed...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/945410_10151918859701562_616623606_n.jpg

Pete
17-05-2013, 04:24 PM
It's all very complex but pretty damning.

Mikey
17-05-2013, 04:49 PM
And just in case of any uncertainty..........


Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, or UBIG, the Lithuanian investment company that controls Scottish soccer club Heart of Midlothian, is insolvent, said the Baltic nation’s Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management today on its website.

The department, part of the Economy Ministry, said that Kaunas-based UBIG, at its own request, had been placed on a list of companies unable or unwilling to meet their obligations.

UBIG is a sister company of Ukio Bankas AB, a lender that Lithuania’s central bank closed in February for risky lending to related parties. Russian-born investor Vladimir Romanov controlled both companies.

UBIG owns 79 percent of Edinburgh-based Hearts as well as sport, aluminum and real-estate projects in several countries, according to its website.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/hearts-majority-owner-ubig-is-insolvent-bankruptcy-body-says.html

Cabbage East
17-05-2013, 05:16 PM
Die Hearts, Die

green day
17-05-2013, 05:40 PM
Get it sent to SPL, SFA, DFC, anybody, everybody

Serious point - I presume someone has?

Andy74
17-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Serious point - I presume someone has?

Neil Doncaster has it.

Pedantic_Hibee
17-05-2013, 05:51 PM
If they wriggle out of this then I have completely lost all faith in the body that governs our footballing fraternity.

Hammer them. And hammer them good. It's the least the repugnant mutants deserve.

Winston Ingram
17-05-2013, 06:15 PM
Serious point - I presume someone has?

I believe all facts to be with those who require them:agree:

greenlex
17-05-2013, 10:10 PM
These ****ers should swing. The UBIG website statement is as cut and dried a case as you can get. Red handed.

Jonnyboy
17-05-2013, 10:14 PM
Neil Doncaster has it.

Shouldn't it be sent to non nodding dog types too :wink:

s.a.m
18-05-2013, 06:24 AM
Shouldn't it be sent to non nodding dog types too :wink:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNZ6-iAHzrlROFCVOyfhMS0x2WJvYKx6uufSAcrIkDOpF6027KiQ ? :greengrin

Mibbe throw some raw meat in, just to get him going?

EdinMike
18-05-2013, 06:43 AM
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNZ6-iAHzrlROFCVOyfhMS0x2WJvYKx6uufSAcrIkDOpF6027KiQ ? :greengrin

Mibbe throw some raw meat in, just to get him going?

Bomber wasn't playing a role as a Zombie in The Walking Dead before he became Dundee gaffer was he ?!...

http://zombiemechanics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/RV-Zombie-400-224x300.jpg

oregonhibby
18-05-2013, 06:55 AM
As General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett would say "bring in the deceased, er I mean the defendant!"

Caversham Green
18-05-2013, 07:37 AM
Great OP Mikey, couldn't have put it better myself....

Anyway, one other point that struck me - the 2012 accounts state that the club's ability to continue trading depends on two new income streams that can't be guaranteed. That means HoMFC can't guarantee to fulfil their fixtures next season, indeed the accounts cast serious doubts on their ability to do so. It's not directly relevant to the decision they have to make, but it's something that the SPL should bear in mind when considering the case.

Edit: Furthermore, in the early months of this season they were openly stating that they were not in a position to fulfil this season's fixtures without a huge cash injection - for which the contributors have yet to get any sort of acknowledgement.

Self-sufficient my fat hairy erse.

H18sry
18-05-2013, 08:21 AM
If the stadium is a secured asset against the debt, will that get sold to the highest bidder ie Tesco,Morrison Cala Homes or the likes, or a preferred bidder like the fan[nies] consortium?

Caversham Green
18-05-2013, 09:30 AM
If the stadium is a secured asset against the debt, will that get sold to the highest bidder ie Tesco,Morrison Cala Homes or the likes, or a preferred bidder like the fan[nies] consortium?

Wrong thread I think, but if it does get sold it will go to the highest bidder.

Mikey
18-05-2013, 11:02 AM
Taken from the main Hearts thread........


The girls in the ticket office haven't been paid last month or this month. Friend works there and she's not a happy lady that's for sure. Not sure if the players have been paid though?

Presumably the SPL will be savvy enough to ask about all staff, not just players.

Caversham Green
18-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Another point worth considering is the reason behind including the Group Company clause in the rules. This was to prevent clubs dumping all their debt on a holding company which would subsequently forgive the inter-company debt (or swap it for worthless equity) and then go bust.

A bit like Hearts and UBIG have done.

Sanger
18-05-2013, 11:50 AM
If the stadium is a secured asset against the debt, will that get sold to the highest bidder ie Tesco,Morrison Cala Homes or the likes, or a preferred bidder like the fan[nies] consortium?

Lithuanian state has had to borrow £300 million to make good the depositors in the former Ukiio Bankas. The administrator of UB has to fill as much of that hole as possible. The highest bidder then!

PatHead
18-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Really think the possibility of Hearts not making it through, or even up to, next season has to be a major factor. As things stand there is no way they have the finances to last.

Sanger
18-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Have sent emails to SPL &Dundee giving them the link to the Bloomberg article stating UBIG are insolvent.

PatHead
18-05-2013, 08:56 PM
This is how they do it in other countries.........................Updated May 14, 2013 10:40 AM ET
(javascript:fsHookMeUp(this, {type:'email', title: 'AEK Athens seek bankruptcy', desc: '', imageUrl:''})) (http://www.hibs.net/) (http://www.hibs.net/#tb)

Troubled Greek football club AEK Athens is planning to declare bankruptcy and seek voluntary relegation to the country's third division.The club, hit by debts and Greece's financial crisis, held an emergency shareholders meeting Tuesday and announced plans to formally launch liquidation procedures after its new board meets on June 7.
AEK, traditionally the country's third largest club, was relegated from the top league this season, but announced Tuesday it would not play in the second division - apparently needing more time to repair its finances.
Greek clubs have been hit by the country's financial crisis that resulted in poor crowd attendance and tight credit.
Olympiakos won the 16-team championship with 77 points from 30 matches, while AEK ended second-to-last with 30 points.

Ken
18-05-2013, 09:29 PM
Not sure if this has been covered already but interesting wording in the Hearts' official response to Ukio Bankas going into administration.
____________

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130212/ukio-bankas_2241384_3073673

Ukio Bankas

12.02.2013
Heart of Midlothian FC today issued the following statement in regard to the announcement in Lithuania that Ukio Bankas has entered temporary administration.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, stated: "The Board wishes to make it clear that Heart of Midlothian plc and Ukio Bankas are two separate companies.

"Hearts is majority owned by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), a multi-national business conglomerate. UBIG is an entirely separate entity and stands alone from Ukio Bankas.

"At a service and operational level, Ukio Bankas does provide the club with some banking services and debt facility and the Board is liaising with Ukio Bankas on these matters.

"The supporters of Hearts can be assured that the Board of the club continues to be diligent in financial matters and we believe that today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day business."
___________

......basically Ukio going into administration did not effect Hearts because Hearts are owned by UBIG not Ukio.

SmashinGlass
18-05-2013, 09:34 PM
As I stated on the PM board.....

Whilst no expert, although I would argue 12 years worth of working in insolvency qualifies me to comment, I would argue that the Lithuanian declaration is analogous to a creditor's voluntary liquidation in this country. Whilst not identical, the basics appear the same in that company cannot pay debts, therefore informs creditors. If it is viewed that way, it constitutes an insolvency event, invoking the 18 point penalty. I just hope the beaks see it the same way.

Edit... I no longer work in the field so cannot confirm that legislation is the same as when I left in 2009

RoYO!
19-05-2013, 06:17 AM
This is how they do it in other countries.........................Updated May 14, 2013 10:40 AM ET
(javascript:fsHookMeUp(this, {type:'email', title: 'AEK Athens seek bankruptcy', desc: '', imageUrl:''})) (http://www.hibs.net/) (http://www.hibs.net/#tb)

Troubled Greek football club AEK Athens is planning to declare bankruptcy and seek voluntary relegation to the country's third division.The club, hit by debts and Greece's financial crisis, held an emergency shareholders meeting Tuesday and announced plans to formally launch liquidation procedures after its new board meets on June 7.
AEK, traditionally the country's third largest club, was relegated from the top league this season, but announced Tuesday it would not play in the second division - apparently needing more time to repair its finances.
Greek clubs have been hit by the country's financial crisis that resulted in poor crowd attendance and tight credit.
Olympiakos won the 16-team championship with 77 points from 30 matches, while AEK ended second-to-last with 30 points.

Geez rangers demise really HAS affected clubs far and wide...

Caversham Green
19-05-2013, 08:40 AM
The SPL should be considering HoMFC's ability to meet their debts in the future as well as their curent circumstances.

Their accounts state that the £10m loan from UBIG has to be settled by March 2015 (that's the season after next) and that repayments are being made at £20,000 per month starting in April 2013. Assuming HoMFC are paying interest on top of those repayments that means when the loan comes to be settled in full HoMFC will have repaid the grand total of £480,000, leaving a balance of more than £9.6m to pay. UBIG in administration/liquidation will not be able to finance that and HoMFC have next to no chance of raising it in two years. A responsible board of directors would recognise this and declare insolvency now - I wonder if they will.

I haven't mentioned the £15m due in December 2015 yet....

Mikey
19-05-2013, 08:50 AM
The SPL should be considering HoMFC's ability to meet their debts in the future as well as their curent circumstances.

Their accounts state that the £10m loan from UBIG has to be settled by March 2015 (that's the season after next) and that repayments are being made at £20,000 per month starting in April 2013. Assuming HoMFC are paying interest on top of those repayments that means when the loan comes to be settled in full HoMFC will have repaid the grand total of £480,000, leaving a balance of more than £9.6m to pay. UBIG in administration/liquidation will not be able to finance that and HoMFC have next to no chance of raising it in two years. A responsible board of directors would recognise this and declare insolvency now - I wonder if they will.

I haven't mentioned the £15m due in December 2015 yet....

You have to assume that the SPL board will have checked the accounts, or at least had accountants look at them, and know about these upcoming liabilities.

As I've said before, there's no way they should let them start in the SPL next season if they can't see it through to May 2014.

steviehibsleith
19-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Great OP Mikey, couldn't have put it better myself....

Anyway, one other point that struck me - the 2012 accounts state that the club's ability to continue trading depends on two new income streams that can't be guaranteed. That means HoMFC can't guarantee to fulfil their fixtures next season, indeed the accounts cast serious doubts on their ability to do so. It's not directly relevant to the decision they have to make, but it's something that the SPL should bear in mind when considering the case.

Edit: Furthermore, in the early months of this season they were openly stating that they were not in a position to fulfil this season's fixtures without a huge cash injection - for which the contributors have yet to get any sort of acknowledgement.

Self-sufficient my fat hairy erse.
Dont forget this self sufficient club has sold 5000 season tickets for next year, thats £2 million of next years funding to pay this year !

PatHead
19-05-2013, 10:36 AM
The SPL should be considering HoMFC's ability to meet their debts in the future as well as their curent circumstances.

Their accounts state that the £10m loan from UBIG has to be settled by March 2015 (that's the season after next) and that repayments are being made at £20,000 per month starting in April 2013. Assuming HoMFC are paying interest on top of those repayments that means when the loan comes to be settled in full HoMFC will have repaid the grand total of £480,000, leaving a balance of more than £9.6m to pay. UBIG in administration/liquidation will not be able to finance that and HoMFC have next to no chance of raising it in two years. A responsible board of directors would recognise this and declare insolvency now - I wonder if they will.

I haven't mentioned the £15m due in December 2015 yet....

You have assumed that the £20,000 each month is all capital payment. Surely some of this payment is interest and therefore they will be nowhere near the £9.6m by March 2015.

Eyrie
19-05-2013, 10:41 AM
You have assumed that the £20,000 each month is all capital payment. Surely some of this payment is interest and therefore they will be nowhere near the £9.6m by March 2015.
Someone worked out that the £20k wouldn't cover the interest accruing each month, so it had to be a reference to the capital element of the loan and the interest is being paid on top of that.

Sas_The_Hibby
19-05-2013, 10:53 AM
In the interests of fairness, should it not be a jury trial, with the jury picked completely at random from contributors to Hibs.net?

Keith_M
19-05-2013, 11:20 AM
I was going to ask previously why this thread isn't merged into the main Hearts one, the same as happens to everyone else's, but I just worked out the reason



:wink:

Onion
19-05-2013, 12:17 PM
You have assumed that the £20,000 each month is all capital payment. Surely some of this payment is interest and therefore they will be nowhere near the £9.6m by March 2015.

Sorry for being slow here, but what is the £20000 ? Interest, capital or both ?

If all interest, then that's a rate of c 2.5% pa on a £10M loan. Can I have some of that, please ?

If capital, then how much interest would the Yams have to pay in addition to date of redemption ?

If both, then an int rate of less than 2.5% ? Looks like a non-commercial/ref rate that the Admins would want investigated.

Hibernia Na Eir
19-05-2013, 12:29 PM
I wonder if the SPL will pause to think why the Lithuanian owners asked hearts supporters to raise all that cash to fend off the tax man earlier this year?

self reliant?

you'd have to seriously doubt it.

Caversham Green
19-05-2013, 12:32 PM
You have assumed that the £20,000 each month is all capital payment. Surely some of this payment is interest and therefore they will be nowhere near the £9.6m by March 2015.


Sorry for being slow here, but what is the £20000 ? Interest, capital or both ?

If all interest, then that's a rate of c 2.5% pa on a £10M loan. Can I have some of that, please ?

If capital, then how much interest would the Yams have to pay in addition to date of redemption ?

If both, then an int rate of less than 2.5% ? Looks like a non-commercial/ref rate that the Admins would want investigated.

I have assumed the best case scenario for the yams, and it's still absolutely dire. The interest is at 4.5% which makes the monthly payments of interest alone £37,500. The wording in the accounts is ambiguous, but I would take to mean the £20k is capital and the interest is paid separately since it doesn't even cover the interest.

They also have a similar rate of interest on the £15m loan from Ukio - that's a further £56k per month and they're not paying any capital off on that, so they need to find £15m by December 2015, if they've survived the £10m shout. That makes about £100k per month going on debt servicing alone.

I think things could be a wee bit tight for them.

Mikey
19-05-2013, 12:33 PM
I have assumed the best case scenario for the yams, and it's still absolutely dire.

:hilarious

greenginger
19-05-2013, 12:39 PM
I have assumed the best case scenario for the yams, and it's still absolutely dire. The interest is at 4.5% which makes the monthly payments of interest alone £37,500. The wording in the accounts is ambiguous, but I would take to mean the £20k is capital and the interest is paid separately since it doesn't even cover the interest.

They also have a similar rate of interest on the £15m loan from Ukio - that's a further £56k per month and they're not paying any capital off on that, so they need to find £15m by December 2015, if they've survived the £10m shout. That makes about £100k per month going on debt servicing alone.

I think things could be a wee bit tight for them.

I don't think the £ 100 k / month includes the £ 40 k + to HMRC :thumbsup:

Caversham Green
19-05-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't think the £ 100 k / month includes the £ 40 k + to HMRC :thumbsup:

You're right, it doesn't.

Treadstone
19-05-2013, 12:42 PM
They also have a similar rate of interest on the £15m loan from Ukio - that's a further £56k per month and they're not paying any capital off on that, so they need to find £15m by December 2015, if they've survived the £10m shout. That makes about £100k per month going on debt servicing alone.

I think things could be a wee bit tight for them.

With the HMRC payments as well, would I be right in saying £1.7m goes out of the club annually just to keep the current grim situation as the status quo ?

Caversham Green
19-05-2013, 12:45 PM
With the HMRC payments as well, would I be right in saying £1.7m goes out of the club annually just to keep the current grim situation as the status quo ?

You would indeed be right. And they still have to find the thick end of £25m in two years.

Treadstone
19-05-2013, 12:52 PM
You would indeed be right. And they still have to find the thick end of £25m in two years.

"Your debilitating illness has gone Sir...the terminal disease you have contracted has killed it!"

greenginger
19-05-2013, 12:55 PM
With the income the Yams could generate in the first division reduced to say £5 million , if they had the same operating costs of as last season £ 3.8 million, Locke would have a player budget of minus £0.5 million.

Players would have to pay for the right to turn out for the Yams. :greengrin

Treadstone
19-05-2013, 01:04 PM
With the income the Yams could generate in the first division reduced to say £5 million , if they had the same operating costs of as last season £ 3.8 million, Locke would have a player budget of minus £0.5 million.

Players would have to pay for the right to turn out for the Yams. :greengrin

Are you saying there could be a couple of speedbumps in getting Boyd and Goodwillie ?

Booked4Being-Ugly
19-05-2013, 01:16 PM
I imagine all the players that took exorbitant wages whilst proclaiming their love for the Jambos and hatred of the Hibs will be rushing back to play for Hearts in their hour of need for nothing.?

I wouldn't expect anything less!!

Mikey
19-05-2013, 01:18 PM
I imagine all the players that took exorbitant wages whilst proclaiming their love for the Jambos and hatred of the Hibs will be rushing back to play for Hearts in their hour of need for nothing.?

I wouldn't expect anything less!!

One post I noticed on KB yesterday summed this up perfectly. When Jamie Mole was on loan at Livingston he would turn up for training in a Lamborghini.

Jamie Mole!!

Hibernia Na Eir
19-05-2013, 01:58 PM
when are the window lickers due their next colossal tax instalment?

Phil D. Rolls
19-05-2013, 05:12 PM
In the interests of fairness, should it not be a jury trial, with the jury picked completely at random from contributors to Hibs.net?

I just wonder if they have anything to say in their defence before I find them guilty.

KeithTheHibby
19-05-2013, 05:31 PM
I imagine all the players that took exorbitant wages whilst proclaiming their love for the Jambos and hatred of the Hibs will be rushing back to play for Hearts in their hour of need for nothing.?

I wouldn't expect anything less!!

Skacel pulled a couple of pints one night so I'm assuming he has done his bit.

Springbank
19-05-2013, 10:21 PM
There is important information on this thread I think (aka bump)

IberianHibernian
19-05-2013, 10:35 PM
Geez rangers demise really HAS affected clubs far and wide...In Spain , the league doesn`t finish for another 2 weeks and some teams are still hoping to get into Europa League at Malaga`s expense ( UEFA ban for one year and maybe two though rumours that UEFA have lifted second year of ban because of clear evidence of reducing debts ) and one of the clubs hoping to qualify Rayo Vallecano are reported not to have been given UEFA licence by Spanish FA ( by national FA not UEFA ) for continued debts . Aware that Hearts have had almost no chance of qualifying for Europe since we knocked them out of cup before Christmas but surely SFA should have announced a long time ago that Hearts would not be getting Euro licence from them if they qualified without clear proof of change in economic situation ? One more example of lack of clear decisiónmaking by SFA and SPL .

Caversham Green
20-05-2013, 10:08 AM
A late one here, according to their accounts the loans from UBIG were payable by December 2012. In March 2013 (only two months ago) the loans were extended to March 2015 and at the same time a repayment scheme was started. That makes this transaction a new loan, made at a time when UBIG could clearly not afford it and made by the directors of HoMFC. This effectively transferred HoMFC's insolvency onto UBIG, which is precisely what the Group Company rule is ther to avoid.

Completely destroys their 'no finance needed' defence.

Saorsa
20-05-2013, 10:10 AM
A late one here, according to their accounts the loans from UBIG were payable by December 2012. In March 2013 (only two months ago) the loans were extended to March 2015 and at the same time a repayment scheme was started. That makes this transaction a new loan, made at a time when UBIG could clearly not afford it and made by the directors of HoMFC. This effectively transferred HoMFC's insolvency onto UBIG, which is precisely what the Group Company rule is ther to avoid.

Completely destroys their 'no finance needed' defence.Game over then :agree:


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e105/CommentCrazyGirl/Smileys%20Action/Occupations/bth_judge.gif HoMoFC you are guilty as charged, you are sentenced tae an 18 point deduction, c ya :bye:






:greengrin

clerriehibs
20-05-2013, 10:12 AM
Game over then :agree:


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e105/CommentCrazyGirl/Smileys%20Action/Occupations/bth_judge.gif HoMoFC you are guilty as charged, you are sentenced tae an 18 point deduction, c ya :bye:






:greengrin

unfortunately, I don't believe anyone involved in the decision making cares about facts.

Andy74
20-05-2013, 10:33 AM
unfortunately, I don't believe anyone involved in the decision making cares about facts.

I've no real confidence they know them either, which is the concern. You would hope they have advisers that llok at this in the same detail but when you hear people who should be in the know talking about Hearts I'm fairly sure that Hibs.net has way more knowledge on this than the guys making the decision.

JeMeSouviens
20-05-2013, 10:37 AM
I've no real confidence they know them either, which is the concern. You would hope they have advisers that llok at this in the same detail but when you hear people who should be in the know talking about Hearts I'm fairly sure that Hibs.net has way more knowledge on this than the guys making the decision.

That worries me too. Practically every report you hear/read says "nobody knows what's going on in Lithuania", "need to get confirmation from Lithuania" etc etc.

It's like electronic communication had never been invented. :rolleyes:

bingo70
20-05-2013, 10:39 AM
With these figures being touted surely hearts can't be far away from doing what ubig have just done and chucking the towel in themselves? They must know the games a bogie, why not just save themselves the grief and admit it?

Mikey
20-05-2013, 10:46 AM
With these figures being touted surely hearts can't be far away from doing what ubig have just done and chucking the towel in themselves? They must know the games a bogie, why not just save themselves the grief and admit it?

They will do, just as soon as they dodge relegation this season.

Barney McGrew
20-05-2013, 10:48 AM
With these figures being touted surely hearts can't be far away from doing what ubig have just done and chucking the towel in themselves? They must know the games a bogie, why not just save themselves the grief and admit it?

Because doing it now would trigger 18 points and relegation. By trying to muddle through for another month or so, they'll get hit with 15 for next season but at least have a chance of staying in the SPL (albeit highly unlikely).

MassHibsteria
20-05-2013, 10:51 AM
That worries me too. Practically every report you hear/read says "nobody knows what's going on in Lithuania", "need to get confirmation from Lithuania" etc etc.

It's like electronic communication had never been invented. :rolleyes:


The fax is mightier than the sword, as they say in Kaunus.

Just my tuppence worth: I think the authorities know exactly what's going on but are too scared to deliver their verdict for reasons of self-survival.

For all the wrong reasons, and whilst their financial governance is woeful, by dint of having a sizable support (I stop short of using the term decent) they're an important asset to the Scottish top flight.