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blackpoolhibs
15-05-2013, 09:06 PM
I was slowly losing patience with the man and at half time of the semi i said to my mate, this feels even worse than last seasons final. Petrie should just storm into that changing room and kick his erse out the door now.

Let someone else be in charge for the 2nd half, as that was and never would be acceptable from a Hibs manager or a Hibs team.

Well he and the team turned that and our season round, and we have progressed no matter what anyone else says, the points tally, the league position and hopefully a cup win to boot.

Pat, the same again next season bud. :top marks

Mikey
15-05-2013, 09:08 PM
The turnaround from half time in that game has been remarkable.

greenpaper55
15-05-2013, 09:11 PM
Maybe an Alex Ferguson moment !, keep the faith.

Vault Boy
15-05-2013, 09:11 PM
I've defended him a lot this season, but I could fully understand the frustration from some fans. I'm really excited for next season, we would have been comfortably in the top 6 without a couple of officiating howlers so I'm pleased with the progress we've made. Paddy has really changed the type of player we have here, and they appear to be working harder and getting even fitter as the season draws to an end. Keep up the good work.

Viva_Palmeiras
15-05-2013, 09:12 PM
Dare I suggest the telling factor being self belief.
As a manager it must be frustrating to know the potential but have to wait for things to click in.
Without self belief and perseverance you're really up against it.
perhaps the penny is dropping we're not half bad and that goes for the support as well.

Question is how do you I still self-belief where it is lacking.

Purehibee_MYB
15-05-2013, 09:14 PM
I was slowly losing patience with the man and at half time of the semi i said to my mate, this feels even worse than last seasons final. Petrie should just storm into that changing room and kick his erse out the door now.

Let someone else be in charge for the 2nd half, as that was and never would be acceptable from a Hibs manager or a Hibs team.

Well he and the team turned that and our season round, and we have progressed no matter what anyone else says, the points tally, the league position and hopefully a cup win to boot.

Pat, the same again next season bud. :top marks

Thought the exact same in the semi final. I said to my mate that this will be him gone if we lose, and although the games afterwards have been against bottom 6 opposition there has been a real turn around and we seem much more composed at times, maybe not so much in defence (especially at corners it seems) but in midfield especially

neil7908
15-05-2013, 09:22 PM
Maybe an Alex Ferguson moment !, keep the faith.

Was just thinking something similar.

Obviously the Fergie comparison is a bit silly but if the Falkirk game had finished 0-3 he would be gone. At half time I was saying that he was done at Hibs. Fast forward a few games and suddenly the whole feeling around the team has changed.

I definitely think we are getting there. Dont want to start getting too carried away as I'm still a little disappointed to not make the top 6 but short of a shocker in the final (which I dont think is likely, this team have a lot more fight than last year) I feel pretty happy going into the summer and looking forward to next season.

Ray_
15-05-2013, 09:28 PM
A major factor, as well as LG's goals, has been the introduction of the young players, they have been a revelation and given everyone associated with the club a big lift.

Viva_Palmeiras
15-05-2013, 09:37 PM
:top marks:scarf:
A major factor, as well as LG's goals, has been the introduction of the young players, they have been a revelation and given everyone associated with the club a big lift.

Lucius Apuleius
15-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Dean Horribine would have had a wee shock. He told me on Sunday that was his season effectively over and had no more games. Wee surprise for him tonight. Nice level headed guy.

jeffers
15-05-2013, 09:39 PM
So a few wins and we just forget the league performances and results since the turn of the year ? The one up fromt dross he persisted with for most of that period ? I like the guy and do hope he succeeds but I still have my doubts about him.

Stevie Reid
15-05-2013, 09:40 PM
My faith has been severely tested at times, but other than at half time in the Falkirk game, I've always believed that he was pushing us forward - it's just at times the progress slowed considerably.

We are light years away from last May, and have a great chance of finishing 7th with 51 points (one less point than the Yams gained last year with their ridiculous wage bill). We currently have as many points as we finished with in 2008-09 under Mixu, where we finished 6th - we have also won one more league game than we did then too.

Fenlon's overall record is now P 70 W 25 D 16 L 29 - 36% 23% 41%

We are getting there, and have much to look forward to. Here's hoping for a good crowd and another win on Saturday.

Wotherspiniesta
15-05-2013, 09:43 PM
So a few wins and we just forget the league performances and results since the turn of the year ? The one up fromt dross he persisted with for most of that period ? I like the guy and do hope he succeeds but I still have my doubts about him.

Go crawl back under that rock you came from! Miserable git!

marinello59
15-05-2013, 09:49 PM
So a few wins and we just forget the league performances and results since the turn of the year ? The one up fromt dross he persisted with for most of that period ? I like the guy and do hope he succeeds but I still have my doubts about him.

:rolleyes:

jeffers
15-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Go crawl back under that rock you came from! Miserable git!

:greengrin I'm delighted we appear to have turned the corner, we are playing two up front and have found a real gem in Harris, so its not all misery !

Lucius Apuleius
15-05-2013, 09:50 PM
:greengrin I'm delighted we appear to have turned the corner, we are playing two up front and have found a real gem in Harris, so its not all misery !

You ******* sound like it though :wink:

shamo9
15-05-2013, 09:54 PM
Alex Harris is doing what Wotherspoon and Cairney were doing in the first half of the season. He's filled that missing link between midfield and attack. We look dangerous going forward again.

Wotherspiniesta
15-05-2013, 09:54 PM
:greengrin I'm delighted we appear to have turned the corner, we are playing two up front and have found a real gem in Harris, so its not all misery !

This is our best end to the season ever!

Infact, can anyone even remember the last time we lost a match!? :greengrin

shamo9
15-05-2013, 09:58 PM
This is our best end to the season ever!

Infact, can anyone even remember the last time we lost a match!? :greengrin

Celtic 3-0 April 6. Week before semi-final

Ozyhibby
15-05-2013, 10:00 PM
Bunch of doubting Thomas's. Always knew Pat would come good. Just needs to win the cup now.

Mon Dieu4
15-05-2013, 10:00 PM
I stated when we didn't finish in the top 6 that i was unsure about him but was leaning 51% towards wanting him to go but my decision would be made once i had seen the reaction and the way we played out the final games of the season

well done Pat there is still work to be done but your odds with me are now going the other way, 2 wins to go

Sir David Gray
15-05-2013, 10:11 PM
I've never called for Fenlon to be sacked, I think he's had a huge job to turn things around in the past 18 months and particularly since that day 12 months ago.

He comes across as a genuine man who has the club's best interests at heart and there is no doubt that we have made progress since last season.

However, finishing in the bottom six yet again is not good enough for a club our size and we must see an improvement to our league position next year. The top six should be the bare minimum that we are looking to achieve and we must do that next season.

It's going to be a big summer for him as we try to shape the squad for next season since a lot of our players are out of contract at the end of season.

I have always maintained that he needed at least 2 years to get the club into a position where we were going to be anywhere near where we should be and he's still about 6 months away from his second anniversary in charge.

I certainly still believe in Pat Fenlon and I think he's shown enough in the time that he's been our manager to deserve a bit more time and patience from the support.

silverhibee
15-05-2013, 10:14 PM
So a few wins and we just forget the league performances and results since the turn of the year ? The one up fromt dross he persisted with for most of that period ? I like the guy and do hope he succeeds but I still have my doubts about him.

Oh dear.

Screw the nut eh. Why the negativity. :aok:


Hibs

frazeHFC
15-05-2013, 10:17 PM
So a few wins and we just forget the league performances and results since the turn of the year ? The one up fromt dross he persisted with for most of that period ? I like the guy and do hope he succeeds but I still have my doubts about him.


Yes for now. Right now we are playing good stuff, bringing youngsters through, winning games and in another Cup Final. Can fully understand why folk would have doubts after form not too long ago, but maybe we are starting to build something good here.

jabis
15-05-2013, 10:22 PM
I've never called for Fenlon to be sacked, I think he's had a huge job to turn things around in the past 18 months and particularly since that day 12 months ago.

He comes across as a genuine man who has the club's best interests at heart and there is no doubt that we have made progress since last season.

However, finishing in the bottom six yet again is not good enough for a club our size and we must see an improvement to our league position next year. The top six should be the bare minimum that we are looking to achieve and we must do that next season.

It's going to be a big summer for him as we try to shape the squad for next season since a lot of our players are out of contract at the end of season.

I have always maintained that he needed at least 2 years to get the club into a position where we were going to be anywhere near where we should be and he's still about 6 months away from his second anniversary in charge.

I certainly still believe in Pat Fenlon and I think he's shown enough in the time that he's been our manager to deserve a bit more time and patience from the support.

no shyt sherlock :greengrin

greenlex
15-05-2013, 10:23 PM
Said it beforeand Ill say it again. The guys a winner. Never in doubt. We could get pummelled 5-0 in the next two games and he should still be our manager. Distinct lack of mosning faced gits around at the moment but they will be lurking no doubt.

madabouthibs
15-05-2013, 10:24 PM
We have to accept any kind of progress, no matter how little. I've been happy this season to be well away from any relegation battle to be honest. Yes, it disappointing the way we've dropped down the second half of the season, but mid table and a cup final?
Sorry, but no complaints from me. :thumbsup:

silverhibee
15-05-2013, 10:26 PM
I was slowly losing patience with the man and at half time of the semi i said to my mate, this feels even worse than last seasons final. Petrie should just storm into that changing room and kick his erse out the door now.

Let someone else be in charge for the 2nd half, as that was and never would be acceptable from a Hibs manager or a Hibs team.

Well he and the team turned that and our season round, and we have progressed no matter what anyone else says, the points tally, the league position and hopefully a cup win to boot.

Pat, the same again next season bud. :top marks


This.

I have been so bored watching Hibs this season i took to playing games on my phone, the football was boring to watch so it was, but since that semi-final, what a turn a round by the manager and the team and the young lads that have also broke in to the team, it has gave the club a great lift, beating them on Sunday was a great booster and we now go in to a final upbeat and with a bit of confidence, anything can happen on the day.

Bring it on.

J-C
15-05-2013, 10:34 PM
Pat's big problem was he was determined to make us harder to beat and this brings with it a bit of negativity playing wise. He realised that he had to let the boys loose and just go for it in the 2nd half of the semi, something seems to have clicked and he's realised that the best for of defence is attack, the young lads ( Harris in particular ) have been a revelation and he couldn't keep them wrapped up forever, if they're good enough, they're old enough.

Jones28
15-05-2013, 10:40 PM
Our good form has coincided with the introduction of youth(and the flair and positive play that comes with it).

Management master stroke :agree:

London Hibs FC
15-05-2013, 10:43 PM
I'd love to know what was really said during that half time team talk at Hampden, it truly does seem to have been a turning point!!

IWasThere2016
15-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Our good form has coincided with the introduction of youth(and the flair and positive play that comes with it).

Management master stroke :agree:

Aye - he planned the 0-3 HT in the semi all along :greengrin

Jones28
15-05-2013, 10:51 PM
Aye - he planned the 0-3 HT in the semi all along :greengrin

:greengrin:

The Sea-gull
16-05-2013, 09:03 AM
As I have said many times, I've never been a huge Fenlon fan but I have never been a hater either. Said in another thread that I think he is doing enough to keep his job but has to improve our league form and consistency next season. I do think he has a good chance of doing this as he will have had another year's SPL experience and a few of the other teams may be weaker next year.

I'll say it again though - if he does not get top 6 next season as a Hibs manager who will by then have had 2.5 years in the job in an SPL without Rangers and a financially stricken Hearts, then serious consideration has to be made about his future.

Massively encouraged by the last few games though. Though the Aberdeen game was not great thought we did well enough to sneak a 1-0. The St Mirren game was mixed but great credit to salvage a draw having led twice and after going behind so late on. We were great against Hearts and sounded like we were certainly competitive last night and kept going right till the end which is what winning teams do.

The results and performances of December, January, February and March cannot simply be ignored though on the basis of an upturn in the last few games.

I'm pleasently surpised that we are finishing the season strongly for a change. I had thought there was a real danger the season would slide and we'd end up 11th. Well done to PF, his coaches and the players for ensuring that has not happened. Hope they continue the focus into Saturday and get the three points needed for 7th which, in the overall grand scheme of things, is reasonably respectable coupled with the cup final appearance for his first full season in charge.

Though I said earlier I have never been a hater, I was at half time in the semi and am sure I was not alone. Credit due again for turning things around from that position but he really has to prove he can cut out the extended slumps before he has truly convinced.

blackpoolhibs
16-05-2013, 09:16 AM
As I have said many times, I've never been a huge Fenlon fan but I have never been a hater either. Said in another thread that I think he is doing enough to keep his job but has to improve our league form and consistency next season. I do think he has a good chance of doing this as he will have had another year's SPL experience and a few of the other teams may be weaker next year.

I'll say it again though - if he does not get top 6 next season as a Hibs manager who will by then have had 2.5 years in the job in an SPL without Rangers and a financially stricken Hearts, then serious consideration has to be made about his future.

Massively encouraged by the last few games though. Though the Aberdeen game was not great thought we did well enough to sneak a 1-0. The St Mirren game was mixed but great credit to salvage a draw having led twice and after going behind so late on. We were great against Hearts and sounded like we were certainly competitive last night and kept going right till the end which is what winning teams do.

The results and performances of December, January, February and March cannot simply be ignored though on the basis of an upturn in the last few games.

I'm pleasently surpised that we are finishing the season strongly for a change. I had thought there was a real danger the season would slide and we'd end up 11th. Well done to PF, his coaches and the players for ensuring that has not happened. Hope they continue the focus into Saturday and get the three points needed for 7th which, in the overall grand scheme of things, is reasonably respectable coupled with the cup final appearance for his first full season in charge.

Though I said earlier I have never been a hater, I was at half time in the semi and am sure I was not alone. Credit due again for turning things around from that position but he really has to prove he can cut out the extended slumps before he has truly convinced.

:agree: with all that, he's done enough to get more time. We need to be much better league wise, Hibs should never be a bottom 6 side, and finishing in that bottom 6 should result in the sack as far as i'm concerned.

After saying that, we all know where Pat had to start from, and that's what has bought him more time.

He obviously has a good cup record, and should we win it, he will get his own statue outside the main stand. Yet we must do better in the league as thats what drives crowds up, and bigger crowds should result in better players and a better team.

Thats something we all want.

Viva_Palmeiras
16-05-2013, 09:47 AM
:agree: with all that, he's done enough to get more time. We need to be much better league wise, Hibs should never be a bottom 6 side, and finishing in that bottom 6 should result in the sack as far as i'm concerned.

After saying that, we all know where Pat had to start from, and that's what has bought him more time.

He obviously has a good cup record, and should we win it, he will get his own statue outside the main stand. Yet we must do better in the league as thats what drives crowds up, and bigger crowds should result in better players and a better team.

Thats something we all want.

in the meantime a decent Derby record is a good place to start even if we had to drop down to bottom 6 to "do" them in the league ;)

--------
16-05-2013, 09:57 AM
:agree: With all that, he's done enough to get more time. We need to be much better league wise, Hibs should never be a bottom 6 side, and finishing in that bottom 6 should result in the sack as far as I'm concerned.

After saying that, we all know where Pat had to start from, and that's what has bought him more time.

He obviously has a good cup record, and should we win it, he will get his own statue outside the main stand. Yet we must do better in the league as thats what drives crowds up, and bigger crowds should result in better players and a better team.

That's something we all want.


If it hadn't been for two outrageous refereeing decisions, we would have been top six. Those mistakes were crucial and helped to maintain a bad run. If we had won the ER derby (which we clearly should have), I think we might have turned the corner then.

The league has been very tight this year - in the middle at least. Third-top to third-bottom was a matter of 10 points or so pretty well all season. Those four points were crucial to finishing top-6/top-7. There is a difference in the side now, IMO, even on bad days like the St Mirren game or the semi-final when last year we'd have sunk without trace. Now we fight back.

I think the introduction of the younger players has been crucial, and I hope Pat continues with this into next season. I'd even go so far as to say that if McPake isn't 100% for the Final, he should play young Forster and give him his chance. Harris, Handling and Caldwell have been very good indeed. We have others queueing up to break into the team, and IMO it's their time now. I have a feeling that Pat has been rather marking time until he felt the youngsters were ready. Maybe the semi forced his hand, but whatever the cause, the last two or three weeks have been a real encouragement.

Right now, Pat only has to survive till the start of next season to become our longest-serving manager since Mowbray, and if he sees out next season (I may be wrong, because I'm going on an ageing memory here) he'll be our longest-serving manager since McLeish. He's just coming up to overtake Mixu, IIRC. He's our 8th manager in the last 12 years.

We can't go on like that - all that that sort of turnover results in is instability, failure, and relegation, with the support arguing about who's responsible for the situation, who should have been given more time, and why don't we just punt the present guy and get someone else? Which is exactly where we were when Pat came in. The support's still arguing about who's responsible for the situation, who should have been given more time, and why don't we just punt the present guy and get someone else? IMO Pat has shown more than enough to be given more time. Beat Dundee on Saturday, we have 51 points. Given half-decent referees, we'd be in the top half of the League. And it won't be hard to improve on last year's Cup-Final performance.

Something someone said at the Arsenal-Wigan game on SKY this week - Arsene Wenger will have more money this close season to bring in players, because the club are finally getting to the end of paying for the Emirates Stadium, and there'll be more money for the team in the future. I'm hoping that we'll soon be in the same situation - the stadium paid for, revenue and finance available for the team, and young players coming from East Mains to provide the backbone of the side, with transfer deals to fill the gaps with good-quality signings. In that situation, I could see Pat Fenlon thriving in a way I couldn't see Collins or Hughes or Calderwood thriving.

Sorry for the length - I should say that generally I'm in complete agreement with you, BH.

matty_f
16-05-2013, 10:03 AM
Spot on Doddie. I was as upset as anyone about not getting top 6 but the margins were very fine between getting it, and not.

Andy74
16-05-2013, 10:07 AM
in the meantime a decent Derby record is a good place to start even if we had to drop down to bottom 6 to "do" them in the league ;)

We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 10:12 AM
We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

:agree:

Me too, especially given what you and Doddie have just talked about. He has restored a massive amount of pride in our club after the rock bottom of last year - if we improve as much next year as we have done this, we will be pushing for 2nd.

The Sea-gull
16-05-2013, 10:15 AM
We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

To be honest Andy, I don't think there are that many people who don't like or rate him. Yes there are the odd few who dislike him maybe but you have just got to wonder about some people's unrealistic expectations sometimes.

I just think there are a few fans who think he is doing a reasonable job but don't want to hang their hats on him long term just yet until he can achieve a bit of consistency.

I very much think that some of the criticism Fenlon has received has been way over the top at times when things have not been going well. Likewise some of the praise he has been getting has been way over the top.

JimBHibees
16-05-2013, 10:15 AM
If it hadn't been for two outrageous refereeing decisions, we would have been top six. Those mistakes were crucial and helped to maintain a bad run. If we had won the ER derby (which we clearly should have), I think we might have turned the corner then.

The league has been very tight this year - in the middle at least. Third-top to third-bottom was a matter of 10 points or so pretty well all season. Those four points were crucial to finishing top-6/top-7. There is a difference in the side now, IMO, even on bad days like the St Mirren game or the semi-final when last year we'd have sunk without trace. Now we fight back.

I think the introduction of the younger players has been crucial, and I hope Pat continues with this into next season. I'd even go so far as to say that if McPake isn't 100% for the Final, he should play young Forster and give him his chance. Harris, Handling and Caldwell have been very good indeed. We have others queueing up to break into the team, and IMO it's their time now. I have a feeling that Pat has been rather marking time until he felt the youngsters were ready. Maybe the semi forced his hand, but whatever the cause, the last two or three weeks have been a real encouragement.

Right now, Pat only has to survive till the start of next season to become our longest-serving manager since Mowbray, and if he sees out next season (I may be wrong, because I'm going on an ageing memory here) he'll be our longest-serving manager since McLeish. He's just coming up to overtake Mixu, IIRC. He's our 8th manager in the last 12 years.

We can't go on like that - all that that sort of turnover results in is instability, failure, and relegation, with the support arguing about who's responsible for the situation, who should have been given more time, and why don't we just punt the present guy and get someone else? Which is exactly where we were when Pat came in. The support's still arguing about who's responsible for the situation, who should have been given more time, and why don't we just punt the present guy and get someone else? IMO Pat has shown more than enough to be given more time. Beat Dundee on Saturday, we have 51 points. Given half-decent referees, we'd be in the top half of the League. And it won't be hard to improve on last year's Cup-Final performance.

Something someone said at the Arsenal-Wigan game on SKY this week - Arsene Wenger will have more money this close season to bring in players, because the club are finally getting to the end of paying for the Emirates Stadium, and there'll be more money for the team in the future. I'm hoping that we'll soon be in the same situation - the stadium paid for, revenue and finance available for the team, and young players coming from East Mains to provide the backbone of the side, with transfer deals to fill the gaps with good-quality signings. In that situation, I could see Pat Fenlon thriving in a way I couldn't see Collins or Hughes or Calderwood thriving.

Sorry for the length - I should say that generally I'm in complete agreement with you, BH.

That is where I am also. He has definitely shown enough to be given more time though in saying that I dont think he would have recovered from being knocked out by Falkirk given the form at the time though you would have hoped for strong leadership from the club if we had lost. The league has been very tight and I still dont think we get our share of decisions, call it paranoia or not but I still feel some refs look for reasons not to give decisions to Hibs at times.

We are improving however it is never in a straight line we will have good and bad days in between though in the main we are IMO going in the right direction. The utilisation and performance of the younger players has lifted the whole club in that there is now genuine competition for places which has lifted a few of the older players to perform better. A good win on Saturday would set us up nicely for another final which we will likely lose given the opponents however we do genuinely have a chance and what I want to see is even if we are defeated a committed and skilful Hibernian performance from our team being applauded from the pitch by a passionate and noisy support.

hibby rae
16-05-2013, 10:17 AM
I've never called for Fenlon to be sacked, I think he's had a huge job to turn things around in the past 18 months and particularly since that day 12 months ago.

He comes across as a genuine man who has the club's best interests at heart and there is no doubt that we have made progress since last season.

However, finishing in the bottom six yet again is not good enough for a club our size and we must see an improvement to our league position next year. The top six should be the bare minimum that we are looking to achieve and we must do that next season.

It's going to be a big summer for him as we try to shape the squad for next season since a lot of our players are out of contract at the end of season.

I have always maintained that he needed at least 2 years to get the club into a position where we were going to be anywhere near where we should be and he's still about 6 months away from his second anniversary in charge.

I certainly still believe in Pat Fenlon and I think he's shown enough in the time that he's been our manager to deserve a bit more time and patience from the support.

I think this season in particular shows how daft the top six/ bottom six split is. I fully expect us to have the fifth best points total in the league come the end of the season and yet we we will still finish in seventh place. And it's not like we've been playing weaker opposition than you'll find in the top six, two away wins at Rugby Park and PBS, and points against cup winners and Aberdeen. Top six in everything but name this season. Pat's the man to take Hibs forwards.

SlickShoes
16-05-2013, 10:19 AM
Our good form has coincided with the introduction of youth(and the flair and positive play that comes with it).

Management master stroke :agree:

Pretty much entering Harris in to the fray changed everything, the start of the season Wotherspoon and Cairney were playing well and providing that link between midfield and attack, both players performances took a massive nose dive and all of a sudden we had Griffiths up front on his own with the flattest midfield known to man. We had a good enough central pairing most of the time but on the right and left we posed 0 threat to anyone.

Enter Alex Harris, we have someone in form with the skill and talent to take on a man and push the team forward again, as a result Leigh is more free up front than having to come back and play AM and Striker.

Andy74
16-05-2013, 10:21 AM
I think this season in particular shows how daft the top six/ bottom six split is. I fully expect us to have the fifth best points total in the league come the end of the season and yet we we will still finish in seventh place. And it's not like we've been playing weaker opposition than you'll find in the top six, two away wins at Rugby Park and PBS, and points against cup winners and Aberdeen. Top six in everything but name this season. Pat's the man to take Hibs forwards.

The split is a funny thing and I think it's right that this year there's no massive difference between the teams in and out.

I think it's right that if we win on Saturday and other results pan out we could end the season just 3 points worse off than the team in third place? Those 4 points we got cheated out of would have made a difference to that too.

Andy74
16-05-2013, 10:22 AM
Pretty much entering Harris in to the fray changed everything, the start of the season Wotherspoon and Cairney were playing well and providing that link between midfield and attack, both players performances took a massive nose dive and all of a sudden we had Griffiths up front on his own with the flattest midfield known to man. We had a good enough central pairing most of the time but on the right and left we posed 0 threat to anyone.

Enter Alex Harris, we have someone in form with the skill and talent to take on a man and push the team forward again, as a result Leigh is more free up front than having to come back and play AM and Striker.

Interesting that we aren't having the same debate about whether the likes of Claros, Taiwo and Deegan get forward or pass forward enough now!

Hibrandenburg
16-05-2013, 10:23 AM
I've been saying from the start of our down turn that it's all intentional tactics to lull the enemy into a false sense of security before the cup final. Unfortunately against the Bairns we had to show our hand a wee bit too early. :greengrin

--------
16-05-2013, 10:28 AM
My son gave me a very good football book for Christmas - "Inverting The Pyramid" by Jonathan Wilson. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone interested in the history of the game and the way the game is, and should be played. I would warn folks however, that you do have to be able to understand big words. There are no pictures to colour in, so don't let it get into the hands of any Jambos. They'll just eat it.

Wilson at one place makes the point that there are two kinds of managers - club-builders, and guns-for-hire. Bill Shankly and Alex Ferguson were exceptional examples of club-building managers; Jose Mourinho is a very good example of a gun-for-hire. Right now IMO we need a club-builder - someone to turn the club around, rebuild the team structures, establish the academy as a working part of the club structure (both playing and financial, remember) someone who'll lay a firm foundation for the years to come.

If the board aren't thinking this way, they should be. TBF, I'd be very surprised if they aren't.

A gun-for-hire often turns a club around very quickly - that's his talent - but he's not there for the long haul. He builds one team, gets his money, and moves on. He may or may not win silverware in the process.

A club-builder takes longer to get to grips with things, but in the long run his legacy is much, much greater.

We need a club-builder right now. I think PF may be the guy. Let's wait and see.

:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 10:34 AM
My son gave me a very good football book for Christmas - "Inverting The Pyramid" by Jonathan Wilson. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone interested in the history of the game and the way the game is, and should be played. I would warn folks however, that you do have to be able to understand big words. There are no pictures to colour in, so don't let it get into the hands of any Jambos. They'll just eat it.

Wilson at one place makes the point that there are two kinds of managers - club-builders, and guns-for-hire. Bill Shankly and Alex Ferguson were exceptional examples of club-building managers; Jose Mourinho is a very good example of a gun-for-hire. Right now IMO we need a club-builder - someone to turn the club around, rebuild the team structures, establish the academy as a working part of the club structure (both playing and financial, remember) someone who'll lay a firm foundation for the years to come.

If the board aren't thinking this way, they should be. TBF, I'd be very surprised if they aren't.

A gun-for-hire often turns a club around very quickly - that's his talent - but he's not there for the long haul. He builds one team, gets his money, and moves on. He may or may not win silverware in the process.

A club-builder takes longer to get to grips with things, but in the long run his legacy is much, much greater.

We need a club-builder right now. I think PF may be the guy. Let's wait and see.

:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa:pfgwa

Very interesting Doddie, and I fully agree that that's what we need. Very pleased with what Fenlon has done so far in that regard.

blackpoolhibs
16-05-2013, 10:37 AM
We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

We were all getting a wee bit fed up with how we were playing, even you posted how you were that fed up you didn't care if he stayed or went iirc?

Now i and yourself and to be fair quite a few others have stuck up for him, and could see the progress the team had made, albeit it did seem to have completely stopped before the semi.

I snapped at half time of that game, and i don't mind admitting i wanted him gone there and then, his time was over for me. I don't know if it was luck or good judgement, or even all that he had to play with, but things have turned round.

As others have said, the good Derby record, the cup run again, and a strong finish coupled with a very good start have been enough to give him more time.

If we are back in the bottom 6 next season, he will be sacked and rightly so imo. I don't think this will be the case, i think we will kick on again, and fingers crossed are fighting at the top end of the table for a European place through our league position.

Sir David Gray
16-05-2013, 10:48 AM
I think this season in particular shows how daft the top six/ bottom six split is. I fully expect us to have the fifth best points total in the league come the end of the season and yet we we will still finish in seventh place. And it's not like we've been playing weaker opposition than you'll find in the top six, two away wins at Rugby Park and PBS, and points against cup winners and Aberdeen. Top six in everything but name this season. Pat's the man to take Hibs forwards.

To be fair though, if you look at our current points total of 48 points, the vast majority of these points have come against bottom six teams.

Record against the current top six teams;

P-18
W-5
D-3
L-10

Only one of those ten defeats came against Celtic, so we have actually lost nine times this season against Inverness, Ross County, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone.

Our record against the two Highland clubs is particularly awful and needs to change next year.

I'm more than happy with Pat Fenlon as our manager, as I have already said earlier in this thread, but our league record from the end of 2012 up until last month, when the league split in half, has not been anywhere near good enough.

I agree that the split is garbage and it should be scrapped but after 37 league games, I'm of the opinion that you are positioned in the league where you deserve to be.

--------
16-05-2013, 10:54 AM
To be fair though, if you look at our current points total of 48 points, the vast majority of these points have come against bottom six teams.

Record against the current top six teams;

P-18
W-5
D-3
L-10

Only one of those ten defeats came against Celtic, so we have actually lost nine times this season against Inverness, Ross County, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone.

Our record against the two Highland clubs is particularly awful and needs to change next year.

I'm more than happy with Pat Fenlon as our manager, as I have already said earlier in this thread, but our league record from the end of 2012 up until last month, when the league split in half, has not been anywhere near good enough.

I agree that the split is garbage and it should be scrapped but after 37 league games, I'm of the opinion that you are positioned in the league where you deserve to be.



:agree:

hibby rae
16-05-2013, 10:57 AM
To be fair though, if you look at our current points total of 48 points, the vast majority of these points have come against bottom six teams.

Record against the current top six teams;

P-18
W-5
D-3
L-10

Only one of those ten defeats came against Celtic, so we have actually lost nine times this season against Inverness, Ross County, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone.

Our record against the two Highland clubs is particularly awful and needs to change next year.I'm more than happy with Pat Fenlon as our manager, as I have already said earlier in this thread, but our league record from the end of 2012 up until last month, when the league split in half, has not been anywhere near good enough.

I agree that the split is garbage and it should be scrapped but after 37 league games, I'm of the opinion that you are positioned in the league where you deserve to be.

Yeah, agree with that. That's always been a problem though since Mowbray's reign. God knows why. Anyone care to have a guess as to why?

The Sea-gull
16-05-2013, 11:03 AM
Yeah, agree with that. That's always been a problem though since Mowbray's reign. God knows why. Anyone care to have a guess as to why?

For some reason Hibs have always struggled against "wee" clubs like these. "Upstarts" who have gained promotion to the SPL having not been one of the established order.

I remember Airdrie used to give us all kinds of problems. We struggled a bit with Killie too when they first came back into the Premier. The Dunfermlines, St Johnstones and Falkirks have been a bother to us at times over the years following their various promotions after long stints away.

Talking about 25 years worth of Hibs teams, different personnel, different standards and placings in the league but still struggle against teams we should be beating more often than not. Really no idea why and baffling that it seems to go on at the club over a period of decades.

Viva_Palmeiras
16-05-2013, 11:09 AM
We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

Not too sure why you've highlighted me post in particular?

fwiw and I've said before he's had a huge job on his hands to remove the problem attitude players and work on develop a new culture whilst rebuilding.

The jury is out for me in terms of his ability to turn games (great improvement recently) but in fairness part of me wonders whether the key to a turn is in the players self and collective belief.

Phil MaGlass
16-05-2013, 11:15 AM
Mibbe it was part of Fenlons masterplan, drop into bottom 6 win a couple of games give the players fans and club a much needed boost for the final and Bobs yir auntie. Scottish Cup in the bag and the manager marked down in history.:greengrin

JeMeSouviens
16-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Alex Harris is doing what Wotherspoon and Cairney were doing in the first half of the season. He's filled that missing link between midfield and attack. We look dangerous going forward again.

Exactly. :agree:

It's not like Fenlon didn't see this problem, it's just all he could manage to get in January was Done. Thank F Harris was waiting in the wings!

hibs4thecup1988
16-05-2013, 11:24 AM
Think it makes it a "bit easier" that we would have been top 6 if it wasn't for two refereeing decisions.

I personally think he has been a good manager for us. He inherited a horrific squad, a team that was in jeopardy. It was always going to take a year or so to get rid of the dead wood. Considering he has taken us to 2 cup finals, unbeaten against Hearts and potentially 4 places higher in the league I think it has to be considered he has succeeded.

Next Sunday will take care of itself. Next season however he really needs to get top 6 to please the supporters. If he doesn't then it could spell the end, no matter what happens in the final.

He came with a strong record in cups IIRC and he has kept that record up. If he can get the youngsters through as well, then its a bonus all round. :agree:

Sir David Gray
16-05-2013, 11:26 AM
Think it makes it a "bit easier" that we would have been top 6 if it wasn't for two refereeing decisions.

I personally think he has been a good manager for us. He inherited a horrific squad, a team that was in jeopardy. It was always going to take a year or so to get rid of the dead wood. Considering he has taken us to 2 cup finals, unbeaten against Hearts and potentially 4 places higher in the league I think it has to be considered he has succeeded.

Next Sunday will take care of itself. Next season however he really needs to get top 6 to please the supporters. If he doesn't then it could spell the end, no matter what happens in the final.

He came with a strong record in cups IIRC and he has kept that record up. If he can get the youngsters through as well, then its a bonus all round. :agree:

Not sure about that.

If he leads us to a Scottish Cup win next Sunday, I think the only thing that would see him getting sacked next season would be if we were relegated with a record low points total.

--------
16-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Yeah, agree with that. That's always been a problem though since Mowbray's reign. God knows why. Anyone care to have a guess as to why?


I don't know how we prepare for those matches - do we stay overnight, or just travel up on the day?

If it's the latter, I think we need to rethink. Arrive north on the Friday, quiet evening, then a light training session in the morning and arrive at the ground in good time.

I know hotels cost money, but two games in Inverness and two in Dingwall means 12 points at stake. £80,000 a place in the League?

Andy74
16-05-2013, 11:28 AM
Not sure about that.

If he leads us to a Scottish Cup win next Sunday, I think the only thing that would see him getting sacked next season would be if we were relegated with a record low points total.

If Pat wins the Scottish Cup he can come into work every morning, take a piss in it and go home and he can still have a job for as long as he wants one.

hibs4thecup1988
16-05-2013, 11:29 AM
Not sure about that.

If he leads us to a Scottish Cup win next Sunday, I think the only thing that would see him getting sacked next season would be if we were relegated with a record low points total.

I did say "Could".

Thing is, around me I have many fans saying "Ach I don't care about the cup, he should go now". So if we toil at the start of the next season then I am sure there are other fans around the stadium that will make noises and we know what Petrie is like...

I would like him to have the time and patience from the board really :agree:

Mikey
16-05-2013, 11:37 AM
Exactly. :agree:

It's not like Fenlon didn't see this problem, it's just all he could manage to get in January was Done. Thank F Harris was waiting in the wings!

If we hadn't missed out on Greg Wylde (because of Bolton's shenanigans) Harris might still be playing in the U20's. It might end up being a good thing.

Sir David Gray
16-05-2013, 11:38 AM
I did say "Could".

Thing is, around me I have many fans saying "Ach I don't care about the cup, he should go now". So if we toil at the start of the next season then I am sure there are other fans around the stadium that will make noises and we know what Petrie is like...

I would like him to have the time and patience from the board really :agree:

There's many fans around you saying they don't care about the cup? :confused:

Where do you sit?

3pm
16-05-2013, 11:41 AM
If Pat wins the Scottish Cup he can come into work every morning, take a piss in it and go home and he can still have a job for as long as he wants one.

He'll still be expected to get results.

Andy74
16-05-2013, 11:43 AM
He'll still be expected to get results.

If he gets results as well then he can have a gold statue instead of a bronze one.

The Harp Awakes
16-05-2013, 11:46 AM
We've got a manager who started with one of the worst Hibs squads of all time, has taken us to the last two Scottish Cup finals and has gone a whole season unbeaten against Hearts.

You'd think those things alone would get him a bit of leeway.

I do agree some of the football this year hasn't been good, but some of it has also been great. Early season we were all talking of being entertained and excited again. I've said a few times before that the way we have been playing its crucial to have creative players in the wide positions. For a long while we had no players in form in those areas and it made it very difficult. We've now got one or two players in those areas on a bit of form and we are back to playing closer to what we had been showing early season.

He's got another task to re-work the squad in the summer but that's the reality of football now and for most SPL teams. Thankfully I think he is creating the right base and the right ethos around the club to build on regaerdless of who the players passing through might be.

He also really seems to care about his job and the club and I think that should go a long way. I've been against a few managers myself in my team but I've been genuinely surprised that so many people don't seem to like him or rate him.

I don't know how many of us will have seen the interview with Fenlon after last season's Cup Final, but seeing a re-run of those few minutes was enough to convince me that Pat would turn things around. You just needed to look at his face to see how embarrassed, angry and gutted he was.

The squad he inherited from Calderwood was IMO, the worst we have had since I started watching Hibs in the mid 1970s. We were a total shambles when Calderwood left. Last season Fenlon filled the squad with loan signings and journeymen and managed to keep us up as well as over-achieving in reaching the Scottish Cup Final. This season has started and finished well with a lapse back to mediocrity in between. To reach consecutive Cup Finals though in itself is a remarkable achievement, as is turning our previously poor derby results on their head.

For me Pat has been the man to take us forward ever since he walked in the door and I still thought that at half time during the Cup Semi Final with Falkirk. Yes he's made mistakes and he'll make some more, but I think he's got the dogged determination and care for the Club to succeed.

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 11:52 AM
I've written many posts in praise of/defending Fenlon over the course of the season, and I've tried to avoid the high profile refereeing errors that have gone against us as they can go either way - however, they also need to be considered in context.

The Griffiths 'goal' v Hearts was not only an horrendous error by both officials, but that error most likely denied us a second victory in four games against Hearts with possibly the greatest winning goal in a derby ever - the effect of all of that combined could well have affected our results in performances in the remaining games before the split, as well as giving us an extra two points.

That one was hardest to take by a mile.

hibby rae
16-05-2013, 11:55 AM
If Pat wins the Scottish Cup he can come into work every morning, take a piss in it and go home and he can still have a job for as long as he wants one.

That'll just encourage Gary Locke to hang around.

hibby rae
16-05-2013, 11:56 AM
There's many fans around you saying they don't care about the cup? :confused:

Where do you sit?

Tynecastle.

JIm
16-05-2013, 12:00 PM
I've been pretty critical of the man at times, still not 100% convinced. I look forward to seeing what we do next season, that for me will be when my mind is made up.

I really hope he proves myself and all the others wrong.

Hibrandenburg
16-05-2013, 12:37 PM
I've been saying from the start of our down turn that it's all intentional tactics to lull the enemy into a false sense of security before the cup final. Unfortunately against the Bairns we had to show our hand a wee bit too early. :greengrin

--------
16-05-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know how many of us will have seen the interview with Fenlon after last season's Cup Final, but seeing a re-run of those few minutes was enough to convince me that Pat would turn things around. You just needed to look at his face to see how embarrassed, angry and gutted he was.

The squad he inherited from Calderwood was IMO, the worst we have had since I started watching Hibs in the mid 1970s. We were a total shambles when Calderwood left. Last season Fenlon filled the squad with loan signings and journeymen and managed to keep us up as well as over-achieving in reaching the Scottish Cup Final. This season has started and finished well with a lapse back to mediocrity in between. To reach consecutive Cup Finals though in itself is a remarkable achievement, as is turning our previously poor derby results on their head.

For me Pat has been the man to take us forward ever since he walked in the door and I still thought that at half time during the Cup Semi Final with Falkirk. Yes he's made mistakes and he'll make some more, but I think he's got the dogged determination and care for the Club to succeed.


I agree. :agree:

Calderwood left an awful mess; Pat had a huge job to do even to keep us in the SPL. I totally agree - that was the worst squad in my lifetime and I have never seen a Hibs team capitulate as that team did that day.

I'm perfectly sure Pat knows that loan signings and short-contract men aren't the way forward, but in the circumstances, what alternative had he last season - or this? He needs to put a team out on the pitch, a team that'll keep us in the SPL. Look at what's happening at East End Park - that could have been us. Ask the Dundee people what relegation means - that could have been us.

As for the semi, supposing it was ALL his fault that we were 3-0 down at HT, who was responsible for putting the team back out in the second half capable of turning the game around? Whatever else we can say about that game, it was an awesome fight-back.

I have no thoughts about the result a week on Sunday. If the team - whoever plays - do themselves justice and play for the shirts, that will be enough for me for this season. Anything else will be a humungous bonus, but if we DO lose the game, it won't down to a lack of effort and commitment on PF's part.

Golden Bear
16-05-2013, 12:51 PM
I've been pretty critical of the man at times, still not 100% convinced. I look forward to seeing what we do next season, that for me will be when my mind is made up.

I really hope he proves myself and all the others wrong.

:agree:

That's the way I see it. He's been far too negative for my liking and it's a view which is shared by all the TV pundits - regardless of which channel you watch.

However --------- things can change, and fingers crossed, we'll see a more attacking and entertaining side next season.

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 01:25 PM
I've seen Hibs play 90 minutes on 32 occasions this season, and whilst there have been some horrendously negative performances for sure, they are in the minority. A few of them being in close proximity on a generally bad run has skewed peoples' opinions, IMO.

Our least ambitious attacking performances have come as a result of the performances of the players involved, not what the manager has told them to do - he is not a negative manager by default.

Fenlon has managed to get better defensive performances out of our back four than any manager since Paatelainen, whilst getting more in an attacking sense than Mixu ever did in his full season in charge.

JIm
16-05-2013, 02:07 PM
:agree:

That's the way I see it. He's been far too negative for my liking and it's a view which is shared by all the TV pundits - regardless of which channel you watch.

However --------- things can change, and fingers crossed, we'll see a more attacking and entertaining side next season.

Thanksfully recently we have seen us getting on the front foot and playing to our strengths. This along with a few young lads coming in has given me a bit of hope. We've seen glimpses throughout the season but as you say on the whole its been pretty negative stuff.

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 02:59 PM
Thanksfully recently we have seen us getting on the front foot and playing to our strengths. This along with a few young lads coming in has given me a bit of hope. We've seen glimpses throughout the season but as you say on the whole its been pretty negative stuff.

Very much disagree that there's only been glimpses of good, entertaining football and that we've been negative overall. We've had 18 home games so far and the Celtic one is the only one where we've set up defensively - we've had a good few away games as well where we've tried to win.

No doubt there have been some very negative performances, but I think many on here have gone way over the top about how often it's happened - we went through a spell where our wide players offering practically nothing, which meant we managed little going forward, but that certainly doesn't mean that Fenlon told the team to limit their attacking ambitions. I do think that there were times during our bad run when we played away from home where he was probably setting us up not to get beat, but I think that is understandable.

Don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of poor performances from Hibs this season - but there's a difference between playing crap and being negative.

JIm
16-05-2013, 03:10 PM
Very much disagree that there's only been glimpses of good, entertaining football and that we've been negative overall. We've had 18 home games so far and the Celtic one is the only one where we've set up defensively - we've had a good few away games as well where we've tried to win.

No doubt there have been some very negative performances, but I think many on here have gone way over the top about how often it's happened - Griffiths went through 6 games without scoring at one point and it coincided with our wide players offering practically nothing, which meant we offered little going forward, but that certainly doesn't mean that Fenlon told the team to limit their attacking ambitions. I do think that there were times during our bad run when we played away from home where he was probably setting us up not to get beat, but I think that is understandable.

Don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of poor performances from Hibs this season - but there's a difference between playing crap and being negative.

Negative for me is the long ball that we have operated for most of the season, lack of midfield support to strikers, lack of width (which harris has helped rectify) and in general an over reliance on LG when things are not going well. Last couple of games have seen us press high up the park, get the ball down in play to feet, balls in behind and on the whole have more threat from different players other that LG.

Other games that spring to mind for particularly good performances are Celtic and Dundee Utd away (both ending in draws). The signs are their that if we get the ball down and play to our strenghts (i.e ball down and attack) then we will win more than we lose.

FWIW i thought the setup vs Celtic was bang on the day we beat them, there is a time to tighten up and be hard to beat, that was certainly one of those occasions.

Stevie Reid
16-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Negative for me is the long ball that we have operated for most of the season, lack of midfield support to strikers, lack of width (which harris has helped rectify) and in general an over reliance on LG when things are not going well. Last couple of games have seen us press high up the park, get the ball down in play to feet, balls in behind and on the whole have more threat from different players other that LG.

Other games that spring to mind for particularly good performances are Celtic and Dundee Utd away (both ending in draws). The signs are their that if we get the ball down and play to our strenghts (i.e ball down and attack) then we will win more than we lose.

FWIW i thought the setup vs Celtic was bang on the day we beat them, there is a time to tighten up and be hard to beat, that was certainly one of those occasions.

Totally agree with your last sentence, was an excellent performance.

Do not agree at all that we've played long ball for most of the season. We were depressingly direct at times, but again, that coincided with the poor form of our wide men.