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Devilstorment
27-04-2013, 09:12 PM
So half time at the Cup Semi, Bringing on Caldwell and him banging a goal within 2 mins and then Bringing on Spoony who had a hand in the 3rd today.


.... A lot of people say that Fenlon doesn't have a clue, so the question is: Is the above an extraordinary stroke of luck or a stroke of genius

Golden Bear
27-04-2013, 09:15 PM
He ain't no genius, that's an absolute certainty!

Stringer
27-04-2013, 09:18 PM
He has a clue, but a genius..... behave.

3pm
27-04-2013, 09:21 PM
Nae genius. On May 26 though...it's mental he could be a legend!

greenlex
27-04-2013, 09:22 PM
The guy is a winner. Won with different teams. He has a clue alright.

Devilstorment
27-04-2013, 09:23 PM
I dont think he is a genius, but credit where credit is due IMO

As soon as St Mirren scored today a few folk around me started immediately getting on Fenlon's case.

Jones28
27-04-2013, 09:26 PM
Einstein was a genius. No football manager is a genius.

Fenlon is a committed, passionate winner. He has tactical nous about him too.

CallumLaidlaw
27-04-2013, 09:26 PM
I dont think he is a genius, but credit where credit is due IMO

As soon as St Mirren scored today a few folk around me started immediately getting on Fenlon's case.

At 1-1 folk were booing. Bloody disgusting!

He needs credit for his changes in recent games and we have looked better back in 4-4-2 in the last couple of games

Northernhibee
27-04-2013, 09:34 PM
He makes mistakes as all human beings do, but he's a proven winner.

I think we sometimes forgot where we've been the two previous seasons and let the great run at the start of the season cloud our judgement on how big a rebuilding job he still has on his hands.

If you look at how average Claros, Stevenson and LG looked just before he arrived he has the ability to bring out the best in players. Given time to get a few more of his players in and working in getting consistency out of the lines of Hanlon, Wotherspoon etc. will be the key to how we do next season.

If we had just a little more depth in our squad and those two ridiculous decisions vs Dundee United and Hearts had gone our way we'd be top six right now singing his praises. Those two games were incredibly demoralising really.

I still have faith that PF is the man for the job (although that was wavering at 0-3 vs Falkirk :greengrin)

hibee_girl
27-04-2013, 09:35 PM
He makes mistakes as all human beings do, but he's a proven winner.

I think we sometimes forgot where we've been the two previous seasons and let the great run at the start of the season cloud our judgement on how big a rebuilding job he still has on his hands.

If you look at how average Claros, Stevenson and LG looked just before he arrived he has the ability to bring out the best in players. Given time to get a few more of his players in and working in getting consistency out of the lines of Hanlon, Wotherspoon etc. will be the key to how we do next season.

If we had just a little more depth in our squad and those two ridiculous decisions vs Dundee United and Hearts had gone our way we'd be top six right now singing his praises. Those two games were incredibly demoralising really.

I still have faith that PF is the man for the job (although that was wavering at 0-3 vs Falkirk :greengrin)

:top marks

GlenrothesHibee
27-04-2013, 09:39 PM
Fenlon is a winner. He will take us places.

Northernhibee
27-04-2013, 09:39 PM
Although it was him who brought Claros in, d'oh!

pedroorange1875
27-04-2013, 09:40 PM
too slow too many times with subs, spoony sub 15 mins earlier...no doubt that the CH pairing needs changing. Shambles at the back overall, not sure about him still but understand he has previous winning mentality but his frustration during post match interviews never really transpires with a different team selection especially at CH where i think we have real problems....taiwo man of the match today for me...superb

Tricla
27-04-2013, 09:43 PM
:top marks
He makes mistakes as all human beings do, but he's a proven winner.

I think we sometimes forgot where we've been the two previous seasons and let the great run at the start of the season cloud our judgement on how big a rebuilding job he still has on his hands.

If you look at how average Claros, Stevenson and LG looked just before he arrived he has the ability to bring out the best in players. Given time to get a few more of his players in and working in getting consistency out of the lines of Hanlon, Wotherspoon etc. will be the key to how we do next season.

If we had just a little more depth in our squad and those two ridiculous decisions vs Dundee United and Hearts had gone our way we'd be top six right now singing his praises. Those two games were incredibly demoralising really.

I still have faith that PF is the man for the job (although that was wavering at 0-3 vs Falkirk :greengrin)

brianmc
27-04-2013, 09:51 PM
It was his switch that moved Leigh to the right wing in the first half. Within a couple of minutes Leigh had a right foot shot(well saved) then scored a left foot rocket after cutting inside. After he scored he appeared to run straight to Fenlon to celebrate?
Credit where it's due perhaps?

Heisenberg
27-04-2013, 09:56 PM
Thought he ****ed up today in not bringing on Spoony the first time. Changed his mind after it went 2-2 but it was clear to see Handling was humped and needed subbed, that then led to Teale walking past him for the saints third. I like him but some of his decisions can be odd at times.

Treadstone
27-04-2013, 10:15 PM
So half time at the Cup Semi, Bringing on Caldwell and him banging a goal within 2 mins and then Bringing on Spoony who had a hand in the 3rd today.


.... A lot of people say that Fenlon doesn't have a clue, so the question is: Is the above an extraordinary stroke of luck or a stroke of genius

Oh ma sides! Changed it in the semi when we were 3-0 down and being totally horsed from the first whistle.Took him over half an hour to make any tactical or personnel change.

DH1875
27-04-2013, 10:15 PM
What do people think he would do IF worst case scenario we are down 2-0 at half time in the cup final? Would he go for it like we did against Falkirk or except we're going to lose so try and tighten it up so we don't have another repeat of last year. I'm guessing that come the 26th we will know if he's lucky, a genius or something else all together.

sesoim
27-04-2013, 10:26 PM
So half time at the Cup Semi, Bringing on Caldwell and him banging a goal within 2 mins and then Bringing on Spoony who had a hand in the 3rd today.


.... A lot of people say that Fenlon doesn't have a clue, so the question is: Is the above an extraordinary stroke of luck or a stroke of genius



Would a genius have signed Robertson and Done in January?

sesoim
27-04-2013, 10:28 PM
At 1-1 folk were booing. Bloody disgusting!

He needs credit for his changes in recent games and we have looked better back in 4-4-2 in the last couple of games


We haven't won a home league game this year. We've won 2 league games in 19. Why should he get ANY credit for constantly failing to win games?

sesoim
27-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Einstein was a genius. No football manager is a genius.

Fenlon is a committed, passionate winner. He has tactical nous about him too.


Yeah, our league position backs that up.

hibee_girl
27-04-2013, 10:30 PM
We haven't won a home league game this year. We've won 2 league games in 19. Why should he get ANY credit for constantly failing to win games?

On the other hand why should he shoulder all the blame for that? There are 11 - 14 players out there every week who are mostly to blame imo.

Northernhibee
27-04-2013, 10:31 PM
Would a genius have signed Robertson and Done in January?

Done was PF's third or fourth choice signing behind Wylde, Swanson and Craig but as the other three deals couldn't be concluded in January we got Done. Hardly fair to knock him on that one.

Robertson will be next seasons Claros. Mark my words.

ehf
27-04-2013, 10:47 PM
It was his switch that moved Leigh to the right wing in the first half. Within a couple of minutes Leigh had a right foot shot(well saved) then scored a left foot rocket after cutting inside. After he scored he appeared to run straight to Fenlon to celebrate?
Credit where it's due perhaps?

He was celebrating and gesturing to somebody in the upper West: didn't even look at Fenlon.

Jones28
27-04-2013, 11:22 PM
Yeah, our league position backs that up.

Our league position at the start of the season proved it.

Captain Trips
27-04-2013, 11:55 PM
On certain occasions a manager gets things right and gets them wrong. PF has got them right in most cup games and eventually v Falkirk but in the SPL he has not IMO done good enough. Cup final or not I am not impressed 17 months on. Bobby Williamson got us to a final as did John Collins who won. Mowbray didnt but I know who I would like as a manager again.

He is not a genius or lucky if we are to push on in SPL then I am looking for better than a league place or 2 as progress after 17 months at this rate Caldwell will be in testimonial year for us to be pushing 3rd.

HibernianJK
28-04-2013, 12:05 AM
Would a genius have signed Robertson and Done in January?

I would have signed Robertson in january, although I think this backs up your point more than everyone elses

CallumLaidlaw
28-04-2013, 12:11 AM
Would a genius have signed Robertson and Done in January?

On paper both looked like good signings. I still think Robertson will be.

mikewynne
28-04-2013, 03:36 AM
He is certainly no genius and I feel he frequently (and frustratingly) gets tactically out thought by opposition managers but I continually remind myself that he is very young for a manager and I think we need to give him time to learn his trade and improve. Changing managers every year or 2 clearly hasn't worked for us. Personally, I think Fenlon has shown just enough potential to give us hope that he will improve as a manager and improve the team at the same time. His appointment was clearly one for the long haul, not a short term fix.

Weir7
28-04-2013, 06:03 AM
Done was PF's third or fourth choice signing behind Wylde, Swanson and Craig but as the other three deals couldn't be concluded in January we got Done. Hardly fair to knock him on that one.

Robertson will be next seasons Claros. Mark my words.
He wanted to sign Done. So he takes blame. Compounded by the fact Harria was doing well in ressies. Fenlon on playing him because Done is junk.

HH81
28-04-2013, 07:16 AM
He is certainly no genius and I feel he frequently (and frustratingly) gets tactically out thought by opposition managers but I continually remind myself that he is very young for a manager and I think we need to give him time to learn his trade and improve. Changing managers every year or 2 clearly hasn't worked for us. Personally, I think Fenlon has shown just enough potential to give us hope that he will improve as a manager and improve the team at the same time. His appointment was clearly one for the long haul, not a short term fix.

Just about spot on, lets not forget how long it took Fergie at Man u to get it right. We cant always have the class of Manchini in winning things straight away.

hibee92
28-04-2013, 07:27 AM
I honestly think he's the right man for the job. But saying that I backed yogi and mixu to the hill so what do I know?

If he wins us the cup hrs getting tattoo'd on my erse. Simple.

Andy74
28-04-2013, 08:01 AM
He wanted to sign Done. So he takes blame. Compounded by the fact Harria was doing well in ressies. Fenlon on playing him because Done is junk.

Away. This place was going mental about the need to sign a winger and a midfielder who gets in the box.

Treadstone
28-04-2013, 08:12 AM
Away. This place was going mental about the need to sign a winger and a midfielder who gets in the box.

So as he signed the right type of player that's fine we should disregard the standard that he signed.

Golden Bear
28-04-2013, 08:18 AM
Away. This place was going mental about the need to sign a winger and a midfielder who gets in the box.

Hel ma boab ----- you can't just make signings for the sake of making signings and in any case I don't think for a minute that Fenlon will care a monkeys what the fans say.

Beefster
28-04-2013, 08:39 AM
On the other hand why should he shoulder all the blame for that? There are 11 - 14 players out there every week who are mostly to blame imo.

That excuse works for a game in isolation or when a manager hasnt had the opportunity to have much impact on the squad. Not so much over four months when the manager has had countless opportunities to change the team and tactics or when most of the team have been signed by the manager.

Devilstorment
28-04-2013, 08:42 AM
He seems to be a more reactive manager (at least recently) he needs to see what the opposition are doing before he adjusts. Rather than already being set up to play against the team.

On another point I certainly think the players need to be carrying more of the can when things arent going well. Yesterday was poor purely because of our CH's I dont think Fenlon could have "managed" that whilst the game was happening. Unless he was to give one of them the hook and bring on Lewis to play left back then bring Ryan in to the middle.

Looking at his signings, he does seems to have a thing for signing midfielders, we could almost field a team of midfielders right now! But it was only about a year ago that a lot of us on here bemoaned our toothless midfield. For the record Done and Robertson i dont think improve our midfield

Golden Bear
28-04-2013, 08:48 AM
He seems to be a more reactive manager (at least recently) he needs to see what the opposition are doing before he adjusts. Rather than already being set up to play against the team.

On another point I certainly think the players need to be carrying more of the can when things arent going well. Yesterday was poor purely because of our CH's I dont think Fenlon could have "managed" that whilst the game was happening. Unless he was to give one of them the hook and bring on Lewis to play left back then bring Ryan in to the middle.

Looking at his signings, he does seems to have a thing for signing midfielders, we could almost field a team of midfielders right now! But it was only about a year ago that a lot of us on here bemoaned our toothless midfield. For the record Done and Robertson i dont think improve our midfield

:agree:

He didn't sign Danny Handling but I see the lad is now carrying the label of "a right sided midfield player."

Hibbyradge
28-04-2013, 08:50 AM
He's a lucky genius.

Andy74
28-04-2013, 09:02 AM
So as he signed the right type of player that's fine we should disregard the standard that he signed.

You get what you get in January.

Robertson is a good player, I've no doubt about that and he is a different type to what we had. He's obviously struggling for form having not played much but I ink he will be a good signing and one none of us really argued with at the time.

Done is short term. I'm not sure how many pacy and effective wingers teams were giving away for free in January.

The standard of other players he has signed has been good. We may have a few midfield players but I think all of them are a standard above what we've had here in recent years.

hibee_girl
28-04-2013, 09:08 AM
Done is short term. I'm not sure how many pacy and effective wingers teams were giving away for free in January.

We gave one away...

Andy74
28-04-2013, 09:09 AM
We gave one away...

Did we?

JMac
28-04-2013, 09:12 AM
He's messed up his subs too my times this season for me to know he ain't no genius,but it worked for him this time so well done Fenlon.

Treadstone
28-04-2013, 09:29 AM
You get what you get in January.

Robertson is a good player, I've no doubt about that and he is a different type to what we had. He's obviously struggling for form having not played much but I ink he will be a good signing and one none of us really argued with at the time.

Done is short term. I'm not sure how many pacy and effective wingers teams were giving away for free in January.

The standard of other players he has signed has been good. We may have a few midfield players but I think all of them are a standard above what we've had here in recent years.

Is Fenlon under-achieving considering we are in the same position as when he took the reins and without Sevco in the league ?

Keith_M
28-04-2013, 09:37 AM
We were 9th when he took over, we're ninth in the league now.

We got humiliated in the Cup Final last year, we'll probably be runners up again this year.

We were in the top three for about three months earlier in the season, now we're ninth and only won ONE league game this year so far.


I don't see lucky OR genius anywhere in that.


However, I'm one of the many that's sick of the continual change in managers and, strange as it may sound after the above, I'd be happy for him to get at least another full season after this to prove himself. Although that's largely because if we change manager again, we'll be having the same discussion next season.

Golden Bear
28-04-2013, 10:05 AM
We were 9th when he took over, we're ninth in the league now.

We got humiliated in the Cup Final last year, we'll probably be runners up again this year.

We were in the top three for about three months earlier in the season, now we're ninth and only won ONE league game this year so far.


I don't see lucky OR genius anywhere in that.


However, I'm one of the many that's sick of the continual change in managers and, strange as it may sound after the above, I'd be happy for him to get at least another full season after this to prove himself. Although that's largely because if we change manager again, we'll be having the same discussion next season.

:agree:

Although your last sentence is let's say, "open to debate"

NAE NOOKIE
28-04-2013, 10:19 AM
Not lucky or a genius ..... penalties given for fouls outside the box in the cup final and a vital game against Dundee Utd. Goals 3 feet over the line not given ..... if thats luck its all bad. He is a reactive manager, so he doesnt appear to be able to set up his team to give the opposition manager problems.

This is a results driven business and it has to be said the results aint good. Once again Easter Road appears to be a ground where clubs feel they can go and get a result ..... unfortunately that is borne out by our home results, which aint good.

If we win the cup ... its a big if .... the results wont matter because PF will be a legend. He seems like a decent guy and I hope things work out for him in the long run. I worry they wont though.

Kaff
28-04-2013, 10:19 AM
He is certainly no genius and I feel he frequently (and frustratingly) gets tactically out thought by opposition managers but I continually remind myself that he is very young for a manager and I think we need to give him time to learn his trade and improve. Changing managers every year or 2 clearly hasn't worked for us. Personally, I think Fenlon has shown just enough potential to give us hope that he will improve as a manager and improve the team at the same time. His appointment was clearly one for the long haul, not a short term fix.

This.
A cup win would buy him the time he needs. Job for life!:greengrin

The Voice Of Reason
28-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Away. This place was going mental about the need to sign a winger and a midfielder who gets in the box.

So based on your logic Andrew, Kuqi was a good signing as we needed a physical centre forward !!!!

:crazy:

AndyB_70
28-04-2013, 10:40 AM
How can people defend him? We are 9th in the league. He has had so long to sort out the centre half positions. We just can't defend our goal. So so so many league games without a win speaks for itself. Some/most of our play is woeful. So slow in getting the ball played through our midfield. How many games did we play with Leigh upfront in his own? Most of his signings are just not good enough. If he is a tactical genius how come he got it so wrong against Falkirk for the first 30 minutes? We could have and probably should have been 4 down by half time. He should have went after the semi final.

CallumLaidlaw
28-04-2013, 10:45 AM
How can people defend him? We are 9th in the league. He has had so long to sort out the centre half positions. We just can't defend our goal. So so so many league games without a win speaks for itself. Some/most of our play is woeful. So slow in getting the ball played through our midfield. How many games did we play with Leigh upfront in his own? Most of his signings are just not good enough. If he is a tactical genius how come he got it so wrong against Falkirk for the first 30 minutes? We could have and probably should have been 4 down by half time. He should have went after the semi final.

You say he got it so wrong, yet go back to the match thread on here and most people were pleased with the team line up.
And yeah, a manager is gonna get sacked after winning a scottish cup semi final!!
Our problem with the 4-5-1 was beating Celtic. Pat thought after that game that that was the way to go unfortunately.
We have been much better going forward for the last 2.5 games.

Beefster
28-04-2013, 10:49 AM
You say he got it so wrong, yet go back to the match thread on here and most people were pleased with the team line up.
And yeah, a manager is gonna get sacked after winning a scottish cup semi final!!
Our problem with the 4-5-1 was beating Celtic. Pat thought after that game that that was the way to go unfortunately.
We have been much better going forward for the last 2.5 games.

There's no question that he got it wrong against Falkirk so what some folk, who don't have management experience or a support team of experienced tacticians behind them, thought is pretty irrelevant.

hibbysam
28-04-2013, 11:13 AM
There's no question that he got it wrong against Falkirk so what some folk, who don't have management experience or a support team of experienced tacticians behind them, thought is pretty irrelevant.

There's also no question he changed it as early as possible and turned the game around.. Had you been offered a 4-3 win and a place in the final before the game would you have taken it? Of course you would...

Pat couldn't defend te crosses yesterday, he couldn't put the chances we had away either, but one thing I was extremely more upbeat leaving ER yesterday, youngsters given the chance an showing that we have a very bright future... Gettig the ball down and playing like we should, look at the first goal, started in our own corner of the pitch... Pat has three games to get the defence sorted now... Mcpake needs to either stand up or take his seat on the bench as I feel Hanlon had single handedly had to deal with centre forwards!

blackpoolhibs
28-04-2013, 11:28 AM
Nobody has backed the manager more than me, but yet again we find ourselves in the bottom 6 with virtually a new team that he has signed. We are now playing kids because quite a few of the players he brought in have been pish. I love it when our own players come through, i think we all do, but this has been another season thats been a failure league wise.

He has a chance to rectify this next month, yet for me reaching the final while great and this will generate money and Europe, has just not got my juices flowing as much as it should be. Am i the only one feeling like this, or are others feeling the same?

I am putting it down to just being bored of the type of football thats been on show for a fair chunk of the season, and the collapse of a winning team that topped the league early in the season.

Captain Trips
28-04-2013, 11:39 AM
Nobody has backed the manager more than me, but yet again we find ourselves in the bottom 6 with virtually a new team that he has signed. We are now playing kids because quite a few of the players he brought in have been pish. I love it when our own players come through, i think we all do, but this has been another season thats been a failure league wise.

He has a chance to rectify this next month, yet for me reaching the final while great and this will generate money and Europe, has just not got my juices flowing as much as it should be. Am i the only one feeling like this, or are others feeling the same?

I am putting it down to just being bored of the type of football thats been on show for a fair chunk of the season, and the collapse of a winning team that topped the league early in the season.

When he took over I never saw enough of a change I do not see enough now we won 10 games I think last season we are on that now so in his time thus far we have managed to draw some games we lost. IMO after this length of time thats not good enough.

Devilstorment
28-04-2013, 12:42 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day... Do we go from being the worst SPL team in the league last season (dunfermline aside) to top 4 side in a year? Or have we been a bit spoiled by our early season success and the rebuilding of our team is a longer term process.

If we finished 7 this season then maybe top 6 next season and then up to top 3 season after is that ok? or does that lack ambition?

I really dont know

Mikeystewart
28-04-2013, 12:43 PM
May be a bit of a cliche but for all the abuse he gets for getting things wrong he equally deserves credit for getting things right.

Played some fantastic stuff yesterday and the youngsters all had the best games I've seen them have.

For all the good play Claros had going forward and breaking up play in the midfield I thought he was culpable for at least 2 of the goals we conceded yesterday. This wasn't an issue of ability but more of organisation from defending short corners. Organisation lies with the manager I think IMO.

Hibrandenburg
28-04-2013, 04:52 PM
Nobody has backed the manager more than me, but yet again we find ourselves in the bottom 6 with virtually a new team that he has signed. We are now playing kids because quite a few of the players he brought in have been pish. I love it when our own players come through, i think we all do, but this has been another season thats been a failure league wise.

He has a chance to rectify this next month, yet for me reaching the final while great and this will generate money and Europe, has just not got my juices flowing as much as it should be. Am i the only one feeling like this, or are others feeling the same?

I am putting it down to just being bored of the type of football thats been on show for a fair chunk of the season, and the collapse of a winning team that topped the league early in the season.

I'm exactly the same. The signs of improvement were there in abundance at the start of the season and our derby record has improved but that has probably more to do with a **** Hearts team rather than a good Hibs one.

I'm also not too excited about the CF but I put that down to expecting us to get rogered.

Ryan91
28-04-2013, 06:58 PM
He was celebrating and gesturing to somebody in the upper West: didn't even look at Fenlon.

Probably his daughter who was mentioned at the game at half time as it was her birthday.

Ryan91
28-04-2013, 07:07 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day... Do we go from being the worst SPL team in the league last season (dunfermline aside) to top 4 side in a year? Or have we been a bit spoiled by our early season success and the rebuilding of our team is a longer term process.

If we finished 7 this season then maybe top 6 next season and then up to top 3 season after is that ok? or does that lack ambition?

I really dont know

I'd be happy with that, top 6 and pushing for Europe before getting top 3 the season after would do me nicely. Some would say that lacks ambition, but I say that's a case of being realistic.

ancient hibee
28-04-2013, 07:13 PM
I think his biggest fault is thinking that the SPL is of a higher standard than it is.All this tinkering with formations and players as if we're in the Champions League.He should have realised by now that defending in the Spl ranges from mediocre to abysmal(he should know that from watching us every week)and that the way to win games is to get ball and bodies into the box as quickly as possible-and we have the players to do that if they are allowed.Not to have given Griffiths more support( even just to give the opposition someone else to mark so that it was difficult to double up)was criminal.His decision not to play Sproule as an attacker was foolish.

JimBHibees
28-04-2013, 07:22 PM
Another thread questioning the manager yippee.

stewpot
28-04-2013, 07:26 PM
Ask me that next season cops if he is still in charge I would say lucky very very lucky

i honestly don't think he has what it takes to be a manager of hibs.

I honestly don't know when it will be till we see a real manager

sooner the better

Lucius Apuleius
29-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Ask me that next season cops if he is still in charge I would say lucky very very lucky

i honestly don't think he has what it takes to be a manager of hibs.

I honestly don't know when it will be till we see a real manager

sooner the better

Who would you like to see as Hibs manager?

Re the OP-neither.

Stevie Reid
29-04-2013, 12:34 PM
Fenlon was criticised by many, myself included, for making two bad subs which cost us points against Motherwell at ER earlier in the season - on Saturday, he deserves credit for the changes that he did make.