Richard Brittain cancels pre-contract

[The Sea-gull]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22169825

This could be interesting. I do worry about our deal with Liam Craig if Brittain wriggles out of his.

Purely because McInnes is now at Aberdeen and any connection he and Craig have.

[JimBHibees]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22169825

This could be interesting. I do worry about our deal with Liam Craig if Brittain wriggles out of his.

Purely because McInnes is now at Aberdeen and any connection he and Craig have.

Very unusual to be honest though I cant see it having any impact on Craig IMO.

Wonder what his reasons are?

[cam75]

There was a hibs player youth player that was ment to go to Celtic,I'm sure it was GS who ripped up contract and let him stay at hibs ?

[CallumLaidlaw]

There was a hibs player youth player that was ment to go to Celtic,I'm sure it was GS who ripped up contract and let him stay at hibs ?

Darren McCormack maybe?

[MotherSuperior]

There was a hibs player youth player that was ment to go to Celtic,I'm sure it was GS who ripped up contract and let him stay at hibs ?

I'm pretty sure that was Darren McCormack

[Future17]

Could be interesting.

I'd expect the contract to be cancelled by St Johnstone as it probably isn't worth their hassle/potential expense/reputational damage trying to enforce it.

I would have sympathy for them though. More and more these days, clubs are required to plan player budgets and the size of their squads well in advance of the new season and this will shake their planning in that regard. Who's to say that, had they not planned to sign RB, they would not have offered LC more money to stay?

One thing is for sure, Sergio Berti will be spitting mad.

[leithsansiro]

From a St J perspective, it's probably best if they agree to it as they surely don't want a player who doesn't want to be there. That said, it again emphasises that player power is supreme in football and that contracts realistically are becoming weaker. Isn't he in breach of contract?

[Winston Ingram]

Could be interesting.

I'd expect the contract to be cancelled by St Johnstone as it probably isn't worth their hassle/potential expense/reputational damage trying to enforce it.

I would have sympathy for them though. More and more these days, clubs are required to plan player budgets and the size of their squads well in advance of the new season and this will shake their planning in that regard. Who's to say that, had they not planned to sign RB, they would not have offered LC more money to stay?

One thing is for sure, Sergio Berti will be spitting mad.

I wouldn't bet on it. Depends on what his reasons are and what he does next. If he bins them to sign for a bigger club then I can't see them going quietly.

On the flip side, if there's say a family issue and he stays at RC then maybe

[leithsansiro]

I wouldn't bet on it. Depends on what his reasons are and what he does next. If he bins them to sign for a bigger club then I can't see them going quietly.

On the flip side, if there's say a family issue and he stays at RC then maybe

This would seem only reasonable outcome that wouldn't result in St J making a huge fuss

[Eyrie]

I'm thinking that the best way for St Johnstone to prevent this setting a precedent is to say that they will hold him to the contract but loan him back to Ross County in exchange for them paying his full wage.

[Future17]

I wouldn't bet on it. Depends on what his reasons are and what he does next. If he bins them to sign for a bigger club then I can't see them going quietly.

On the flip side, if there's say a family issue and he stays at RC then maybe

True. I was assuming he would be staying at RC based on the way the article was written, but it's a good point.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe we've offered him a deal that wasn't on the table when he signed for st j?

[Stonewall]

Could be interesting.

I'd expect the contract to be cancelled by St Johnstone as it probably isn't worth their hassle/potential expense/reputational damage trying to enforce it.

I would have sympathy for them though. More and more these days, clubs are required to plan player budgets and the size of their squads well in advance of the new season and this will shake their planning in that regard. Who's to say that, had they not planned to sign RB, they would not have offered LC more money to stay?

One thing is for sure, Sergio Berti will be spitting mad.

There is no contract with St Johnstone at the present time as he is still under contract with his current club.

I was under the impression that a pre contract agreement is not legally binding on either party. Perhaps someone could confirm

[MrSmith]

Time to curb pre-contracts and get back to end of contract talks only!

Waste of time and space and only unsettle managers, fans and players.

[ekhibee]

Has now seemingly changed his mind and decided to stay with Ross County even though he's signed for St Johnstone.

[Leishy1995]

It's him who pays st Johnstone as he has breached the contract

[J-C]

I heard there was personal issues here, his wife is pregnant and her family are up in Dingwall, also Ross C were in no position to offer him a contract at the time but since their good season, more money has become available. No monies have changed hands, so rip it up and get on with it.

[Leishy1995]

I heard there was personal issues here, his wife is pregnant and her family are up in Dingwall, also Ross C were in no position to offer him a contract at the time but since their good season, more money has become available. No monies have changed hands, so rip it up and get on with it.


He has signed though, and by law had a contract which will need to be obliged. He has to pay damages to the saints I believe.

This will set the precedent for players in the future though, maybe a ZNr Doyle will be watching this story.

And lastly, convent I was in law today!

[marinello59]

I heard there was personal issues here, his wife is pregnant and her family are up in Dingwall, also Ross C were in no position to offer him a contract at the time but since their good season, more money has become available. No monies have changed hands, so rip it up and get on with it.

It doesn't matter that no money changed hands. He signed a contract. St Johnstone would have been planning for next season on the basis that his position was covered. Hopefully a common sense solution will be found though.

[500miles]

If I remember correctly, pre contracts aren't worth much. That's why it was so easy for Darren McCormack to change his mind when Celtic initially gave him one.

[Brooster]

Spot on. Pre contracts can be ripped up at any time. They are not really worth much. If Britton was to get badly injured then st Johnstone could rip the pre contract up. Saying that I think Britton is out of order.



If I remember correctly, pre contracts aren't worth much. That's why it was so easy for Darren McCormack to change his mind when Celtic initially gave him one.

[Andy74]

Spot on. Pre contracts can be ripped up at any time. They are not really worth much. If Britton was to get badly injured then st Johnstone could rip the pre contract up. Saying that I think Britton is out of order.

Like any contract both sides have to agree to rip up or there will be a claim. They are worth as much as any contract.

[StevieC]

A contract was signed and therefore St Johnstone are due compensation.

You can't be allowed to go around signing contracts and then ripping them up, Scottish Football is in a big enough mess as it is without creating more havoc.

[brianmc]

A contract hasn't been signed,a pre-contract "agreement" has. I'm pretty sure these are not legally binding.

[Andy74]

A contract hasn't been signed,a pre-contract "agreement" has. I'm pretty sure these are not legally binding.

Depends entirely on wording. You can't agree to agree in future but you can agree to a contract with effect from a date.

[worcesterhibby]

I believe a pre-contract IS a contract. Basically It's a contract that you sign that agrees you will sign a professional football contract with the said club as soon as you are free to do so (your existing professional football contract expires). It may contain "get out" clauses (injury, the new club being relegated etc) but it is unlikely to include a "get out" clause for the player just changing his mind.

There is too much power in the hands of the players as it is. He needs to pay compensation if he has now changed his mind.

[Caversham Green]

I can't see that there would be much in the way of compensation needed here in any case. The player agreed to play for the club and the club agreed to pay him a wage for doing so. It's not now going to happen so the player will play elsewhere and the club won't have to pay the wages - neither side has really lost anything that can be evaluated. It's possible that agent's fees have been paid and St J maybe paid a 'signing' fee, if so I would guess that Britton would have to repay those but that aside I reckon both sides will just go their separate ways.

[Zazu62]

After watching the st Johnstone Ross county game on Sunday I thought his celebrations were a little over the top after he scored that penalty ... Looked like he was pissed of big time ??

[Andy74]

I can't see that there would be much in the way of compensation needed here in any case. The player agreed to play for the club and the club agreed to pay him a wage for doing so. It's not now going to happen so the player will play elsewhere and the club won't have to pay the wages - neither side has really lost anything that can be evaluated. It's possible that agent's fees have been paid and St J maybe paid a 'signing' fee, if so I would guess that Britton would have to repay those but that aside I reckon both sides will just go their separate ways.

Don't see that. Same could be said for anyone walking away from a contract. Makes no odds they don't have to pay the wages they had a contract to be stuck to.

[Caversham Green]

Don't see that. Same could be said for anyone walking away from a contract. Makes no odds they don't have to pay the wages they had a contract to be stuck to.

They did, but neither side has actually lost anything in monetary terms (other than the fees etc. I mentioned) and there's no damage to reputations or prospects so any compensation would likely be negligible and not worth the legal fees needed to chase it.

[JimBHibees]

Don't see that. Same could be said for anyone walking away from a contract. Makes no odds they don't have to pay the wages they had a contract to be stuck to.

Does there not need to be some quantifiable loss?

[StevieC]

They did, but neither side has actually lost anything in monetary terms (other than the fees etc. I mentioned) and there's no damage to reputations or prospects so any compensation would likely be negligible and not worth the legal fees needed to chase it.

I don't think that any monetary loses are relevant, IMO (unless it goes to court). St Johnstone have a contracted player and if someone else wants that player, or the player wants to leave, then a fee has to be agreed with St Johnstone. The fact that they haven't lost any money might make them easier to deal with but they still need to be compensated.

[Heedersnvolleys]

I am sure if it had a knock on effect and St J said to Liam Craig we would really like to keep you as we are not getting the boy from RC and we will match what Hibs are offering you ,there would up roar on here!:grr::devil:

[Caversham Green]

I don't think that any monetary loses are relevant, IMO (unless it goes to court). St Johnstone have a contracted player and if someone else wants that player, or the player wants to leave, then a fee has to be agreed with St Johnstone. The fact that they haven't lost any money might make them easier to deal with but they still need to be compensated.

St Johnstone didn't have a contracted player though, they had a player who had agreed to sign for them once his contract with Ross County had ended, but he was never actually a St Johnstone player. The SFA might consider some action, but that would more likely be against Ross County if it could be shown that they induced Britton to break his agreement/contract with St Johnstone.

The point of compensation is to put the injured party back to the position they were in before the offence took place, so the only true way to compensate St Johnstone would be to force Britton to sign for them and it's extremely doubtful that they would want that now.

[Leishy1995]

I am sure if it had a knock on effect and St J said to Liam Craig we would really like to keep you as we are not getting the boy from RC and we will match what Hibs are offering you ,there would up roar on here!:grr::devil:

Been thinking this all day

[Andy74]

St Johnstone didn't have a contracted player though, they had a player who had agreed to sign for them once his contract with Ross County had ended, but he was never actually a St Johnstone player. The SFA might consider some action, but that would more likely be against Ross County if it could be shown that they induced Britton to break his agreement/contract with St Johnstone.

The point of compensation is to put the injured party back to the position they were in before the offence took place, so the only true way to compensate St Johnstone would be to force Britton to sign for them and it's extremely doubtful that they would want that now.

It's all in the wording though. In Scotland you can't agree to agree later and so pre contracts here are generally contracts which are agreed to start at a future date.

If a contracted player walked from Hibs tomorrow we wouldn't have to pay his wages but we would certainly have a claim.

[The_Sauz]

All he is doing is a Kris Boyd........remember when he signed for Cardiff, only to pull out for family reason! A few weeks later he signed for the Tax dogers :agree:
jc1 say's he had heard it's because his wife is pregnant, then I guess they were not planing to have kids when he agreed to move to Perth :rolleyes:

[J-C]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/sport/football/in-what-case-is-a-pre-contract-not-legally-binding.20883179?_=2593eb46bbe289dd515e9d65430756c 3f339a8e1

[J-C]

All he is doing is a Kris Boyd........remember when he signed for Cardiff, only to pull out for family reason! A few weeks later he signed for the Tax dogers :agree:
jc1 say's he had heard it's because his wife is pregnant, then I guess they were not planing to have kids when he agreed to move to Perth :rolleyes:


Exactly, Sportsound guys were saying how his family circumstances had changed and he was wanting to stay where he was.

[StevieC]

St Johnstone didn't have a contracted player though, they had a player who had agreed to sign for them once his contract with Ross County had ended

Given Scots law, I doubt very much that it was an agreement and that it will be an actual contract with an agreed start date.

I have a flat I rent and I need a Lease Agreement signed, a start date agreed and a deposit paid before tennents move in. If they failed to honour that agreement then I suspect I would have a claim, regardless of whether they moved in or not.


The point of compensation is to put the injured party back to the position they were in before the offence took place, so the only true way to compensate St Johnstone would be to force Britton to sign for them and it's extremely doubtful that they would want that now.

StJ could claim that failure to sign resulted in a weakened team, which in turn would result in a lower league position and a loss of income. Hard to prove until the end of the season but would a player want to sit out a season waiting to find out?

[Leishy1995]

Given Scots law, I doubt very much that it was an agreement and that it will be an actual contract with an agreed start date.

I have a flat I rent and I need a Lease Agreement signed, a start date agreed and a deposit paid before tennents move in. If they failed to honour that agreement then I suspect I would have a claim, regardless of whether they moved in or not.



StJ could claim that failure to sign resulted in a weakened team, which in turn would result in a lower league position and a loss of income. Hard to prove until the end of the season but would a player want to sit out a season waiting to find out?


Aslong as it was foreseen when he signed it and he was to be a major player for them then I guess he will have a season waiting

[Love the Green]

Has now seemingly changed his mind and decided to stay with Ross County even though he's signed for St Johnstone.

FFS dont tell liam craig..

"keep the faith":flag:

[JimBHibees]

StJ could claim that failure to sign resulted in a weakened team, which in turn would result in a lower league position and a loss of income. Hard to prove until the end of the season but would a player want to sit out a season waiting to find out?

They can claim what they want however there is nothing stopping them signing another player to replace Brittain so not altogether sure they can indicate what they have lost by this.

[Caversham Green]

It's all in the wording though. In Scotland you can't agree to agree later and so pre contracts here are generally contracts which are agreed to start at a future date.

If a contracted player walked from Hibs tomorrow we wouldn't have to pay his wages but we would certainly have a claim.

I'm not doubting that there's a contract in place, nor even that St Johnstone have a theoretical claim, what I'm saying is that they haven't suffered any significant loss through the player's action so any actual compensation would be minimal - at least as far as a law court is concerned. The sporting authorities may take a different view but it would be very difficult to put any value on the club's 'loss'.


Given Scots law, I doubt very much that it was an agreement and that it will be an actual contract with an agreed start date.

I have a flat I rent and I need a Lease Agreement signed, a start date agreed and a deposit paid before tennents move in. If they failed to honour that agreement then I suspect I would have a claim, regardless of whether they moved in or not.



StJ could claim that failure to sign resulted in a weakened team, which in turn would result in a lower league position and a loss of income. Hard to prove until the end of the season but would a player want to sit out a season waiting to find out?

Your flat is slightly different because you would suffer an actual and quantifiable loss - compensation would be relatively easy to calculate. St Johnstone now just have to go back into the player market and find a similar player at the same price - just like every other club has to. They may even find a better player than Richard Britton.

[StevieC]

Your flat is slightly different because you would suffer an actual and quantifiable loss - compensation would be relatively easy to calculate.

I might not suffer any loss, but I'd still be entitled to claim the full amount of rent for the term of the lease.

Anyway, I digress, the point being that a contract is a contract and if it's not honoured the injured party has recourse for compensation.


St Johnstone now just have to go back into the player market and find a similar player at the same price - just like every other club has to.

Their argument, and probably a valid one, would probably be that a player of similar quality could not be got at the same price originally agreed, and that compensation would be needed to cover the diffrence in wages and signing on fee for the replacement.

St Johnstone could also argue that they need agreed compensation, prior to purchasing a replacement player, to ensure that it did not impact on their proposed player budget.

In summary .. you want the player, you agree compensation with St Johnstone. :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

For me St Johnstone have to be compensated or signing a pre contract is not worth the paper its written on, and a complete waste of time.

[Allant1981]

The guy is a year, ive known him for years and is a bit of a tool so for that reason alone I'd make him go play for st j

[ekhibee]

I would also be concerned that something like this might happen with Miller's transfer to us. If Britton is allowed to get away with this then St Johnstone are a midfielder short, indeed one of the reasons they let Miller go might have been cos they had signed an adequate replacement in Britton.

[scoopyboy]

I would also be concerned that something like this might happen with Miller's transfer to us. If Britton is allowed to get away with this then St Johnstone are a midfielder short, indeed one of the reasons they let Miller go might have been cos they had signed an adequate replacement in Britton.

I take it Miller is your pet name for Liam Craig.

SJ never let Liam Craig go, they couldn't stop us signing him.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Looks like the "would St Johnstone back out if he was injured?" hypothetical question may now be tested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22502569

[danhibees1875]

Looks like the "would St Johnstone back out if he was injured?" hypothetical question may now be tested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22502569

It looked a sore one on BBC alba :agree:

[Jim44]

I am sure if it had a knock on effect and St J said to Liam Craig we would really like to keep you as we are not getting the boy from RC and we will match what Hibs are offering you ,there would up roar on here!:grr::devil:

If Craig were to change his mind and cancel his pre-contract, the philosophical way to look at it is that we are escaping the appointment of a player who deep down doesn't want to be at ER.

[hibee92]

Failed to turn up to St Johnstone's first training session today despite signing a pre-contract. Said earlier in the season he has changed his mind and apparently signed a new contract with County?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23083594

Very bizarre. If he ends up staying with County for no fee or compo it'll be a bit of a joke IMO. Players who sign pre-contracts could just rip them up at any time if they have a change of heart. Would be less than pleased if this was Liam Craig.

Thoughts?

[Eternal Hibbie]

Failed to turn up to St Johnstone's first training session today despite signing a pre-contract. Said earlier in the season he has changed his mind and apparently signed a new contract with County?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23083594

Very bizarre. If he ends up staying with County for no fee or compo it'll be a bit of a joke IMO. Players who sign pre-contracts could just rip them up at any time if they have a change of heart. Would be less than pleased if this was Liam Craig.

Thoughts?

Surely if the legislation is in place to allow clubs to sign players on a pre-contract then there has to be some kind of assurance on the clubs part that the agreement is going go be honoured.

I'm assuming Brittain's arm (not his signing one) wasn't half-way up his back when he signed the contract.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[blackpoolhibs]

I personally feel St Johnstone should fight tooth and nail for compensation over this, you cant have players signing pre contract then turning their backs on them.

St Johnstone could have signed him as a replacement for Liam Craig, they then think they have covered that position and spend what money they have on other parts of the team.

I don't think he can go to perth now, but i do think they should be suitably compensated.

Either we have a pre contract rule or we dont, its not up to the player once he's signed one to change that rule.

[silverhibee]

I personally feel St Johnstone should fight tooth and nail for compensation over this, you cant have players signing pre contract then turning their backs on them.

St Johnstone could have signed him as a replacement for Liam Craig, they then think they have covered that position and spend what money they have on other parts of the team.

I don't think he can go to perth now, but i do think they should be suitably compensated.

Either we have a pre contract rule or we dont, its not up to the player once he's signed one to change that rule.


It's seems the SPL rules are there to be broken.

[Sylar]

Similar thing happened to Livi - they signed Clum on a pre-contract agreement and he then went on to sign for Raith Rovers!

Pre-contracts evidently mean diddly squat - are these enforceable by law or are they merely a type of 'gentleman's agreement'?

[ekhibee]

I personally feel St Johnstone should fight tooth and nail for compensation over this, you cant have players signing pre contract then turning their backs on them.

St Johnstone could have signed him as a replacement for Liam Craig, they then think they have covered that position and spend what money they have on other parts of the team.

I don't think he can go to perth now, but i do think they should be suitably compensated.

Either we have a pre contract rule or we dont, its not up to the player once he's signed one to change that rule.

I started a thread about this when the issue with Brittain first came up. IMO he should be heavily fined. I know that sounds harsh, but it's not really Ross County's fault that he's now refusing to go, although if they're quite happy to play him knowing that he's technically playing with them illegally, they have to assume some kind of responsibility. Motormouth Adams has been noticeably quiet on the subject too.

[frazeHFC]

County team were using same facilities as us today in Inverness. Was looking out for Britain but never saw him. Saw him couple weeks ago in County gear. Ivan was in good spirits today, had a wee word about his hattrick at ibrox! :thumbsup:

[HibeeMG]

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=2580

"Following a meeting between our Chairman Steve Brown and his opposite number at Ross County, St Johnstone FC wishes to announce that an agreement has been reached, on terms that are acceptable to St Johnstone, for the cancellation of the Scottish Premier League contract between St Johnstone FC and the Player Richard Brittain."

[Purple & Green]

What if brittain had been injured, would saint johnstone still have had to sign him? Does it work both ways?

Is there any players who that has happened to?

[frazeHFC]

What if brittain had been injured, would saint johnstone still have had to sign him? Does it work both ways?

Is there any players who that has happened to?

Its not quite the same but i remember Liverpool signing Aquilani when he was injured, and he never got to make his debut until about half way through the season iirc.

[Part/Time Supporter]

What if brittain had been injured, would saint johnstone still have had to sign him? Does it work both ways?

Is there any players who that has happened to?

Celtic signed a pre-contract with a Polish guy last year and pulled out because he suffered a serious injury. Normally clubs cover themselves in a pre-contract by inserting an injury clause into the deal.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/celtic-pull-plug-on-signing-jaroslaw-877776



NEIL LENNON'S plans for next season have been dealt a huge blow as a deal to sign Polish defender Jaroslaw Fojut was cancelled due to injury.

Fojut sustained a serious knee injury in his final game for Slask Wroclaw – a repeat of the cruciate damage he suffered while playing for Bolton in the Premiership. Fojut, 24, met Celtic doctor Roddy MacDonald last week when the injury was confirmed. The SPL champs have now pulled the plug on the pre-contract agreement he signed in January. It is a major set-back for gaffer Lennon who is desperate to strengthen his central defence with Glenn Loovens and Daniel Majstorovic set to move on.

Lennon said: “It looks like Jaroslaw has done his cruciate and that deal is off now. He was in London on Tuesday with our doctor Roddy to see a specialist. When you sign a player on a pre-contract there is always that option to break it. It’s a huge blow for him – and for us. We really liked the cut of him."

[R'Albin]

I heard that it was because his young child had fallen ill and he couldn't move her, so he would either have to move away from her and her mother or make a long journey every day.

[Just_Jimmy]

send hearts the bill

[easty]

Ross County should have to pay a transfer fee for him to St Johnstone. The SPL should also ban him for bringing the game into disrepute.

[frazeHFC]

I heard that it was because his young child had fallen ill and he couldn't move her, so he would either have to move away from her and her mother or make a long journey every day.



If it's for this reason then I back his decision 100%. :agree:

[easty]

If it's for this reason then I back his decision 100%. :agree:

Until I see his sick bairn on the telly greeting, with a doctors note in hand, I'm no buying it! :devil:

[R'Albin]

I heard that it was because his young child had fallen ill and he couldn't move her, so he would either have to move away from her and her mother or make a long journey every day.

Obviously got slightly mixed up, here are the reasons below:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/richard-brittain-s-wife-takes-on-trolls-in-blog-1-3056722

http://dibrittainblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/i-feel-wonderful-%E2%98%91/

[Allant1981]

the guy was a twat when we were growing up but fair play to him for staying up there and making sure his family were ok. Family should always come first in my opinion