Boston bombings

[Sir David Gray]

Two explosions have gone off near the finishing line of the Boston Marathon, which took place today.

Apparently they went off inside a nearby hotel.

Latest reports are saying that 2 people are dead and at least 22 people are injured.

[Sir David Gray]

Apparently police in the UK are about to review their security measures for this weekend's London Marathon after today's events.

Washington D.C. has been put on high alert and the White House has been cordoned off as well.

[sleeping giant]

Explosion at jfk library

[Sir David Gray]

Another explosion being reported at the JFK memorial museum in Boston.

Sounds really serious.

[Falkirk Hibby]

I was supposed to be at the Red Sox game today but declined due to cost and the Semi Final. Horrible scenes.

[HibsMax]

Thankfully I work in Nashua, NH these days but I know someone who was at a marathon party and I haven't heard from her....but I am assuming it's a bit of a mad scene down there right now.

[Gatecrasher]

Thankfully I work in Nashua, NH these days but I know someone who was at a marathon party and I haven't heard from her....but I am assuming it's a bit of a mad scene down there right now.
good to see your ok Max :aok:

[Sir David Gray]

Thankfully I work in Nashua, NH these days but I know someone who was at a marathon party and I haven't heard from her....but I am assuming it's a bit of a mad scene down there right now.

Apparently the mobile phone network in Boston has been cut off to prevent any remote attacks from taking place via mobile phone.

Hope she's ok.

[hibsbollah]

Its an understandable precaution of course, but shutting off the networks has obviously caused a lot of worry, with tens of thousands of people out on the surrounding streetds unable to contact their friends and family.

[Sir David Gray]

Its an understandable precaution of course, but shutting off the networks has obviously caused a lot of worry, with tens of thousands of people out on the surrounding streetds unable to contact their friends and family.

That's what I was thinking.

It's a difficult call though because if they hadn't done that and there was to be a 4th explosion planned by someone detonating a device via a mobile phone then the authorities would have to answer why they didn't shut off the networks to prevent this from taking place.

[Sir David Gray]

Police now saying that it was a fire that occurred at the JFK library, not an explosion, and it was unrelated to the explosions at the marathon.

[HibsMax]

Apparently the mobile phone network in Boston has been cut off to prevent any remote attacks from taking place via mobile phone.

Hope she's ok.

She's OK. She never even made it into Boston for the party because of a bunch of other things. Lucky girl.

[hibeedonald]

Shocking scenes but this really needs to be put into perspective. 31 people died in Iraq yet there's barely any media coverage. People will hopefully wake up to what living there must be like.

[Sir David Gray]

Reports coming out of Boston are suggesting that one of the deceased is an 8 year old child.

Very sad.

[ChooseLife]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046MuD1pYJg

[Betty Boop]

Not reported in the mainstream media, but apparently the Boston bomb squad were running a controlled explosion, opposite the library.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34627.htm?utm_source=ICH%3A++Bombs+In+Bosto n+Kills+3&utm_campaign=FIRST&utm_medium=email

[H18sry]

The horrific, painful and wasteful loss of life in Boston hits all the headlines today and will do for the next few days. And my condolences go out to all the families and victims there.

Yesterday 33 people were killed in bombings in Iraq and 16 (including 12 kids) in Syria. It happens every few days in Afghanistan too. Sadly nobody really takes note of those events.

[Beefster]

Shocking scenes but this really needs to be put into perspective. 31 people died in Iraq yet there's barely any media coverage. People will hopefully wake up to what living there must be like.

I've seen this type of comment all over Twitter too but am not really sure of the point of it. Can you put the death of an eight year old in a likely terrorist attack 'into perspective'? Or is it because it's the US?

Seeing as I've read that I should put the Boston attack and deaths into perspective a lot of times in the last twelve hours, why don't I read "Yes, it's sad that x died from cancer/heart attack/old age but there are thousands dying from the same thing every day" or "Yes, folk in the UK live in poverty but put it into perspective, folk in Niger would think UK poverty was the high life" far more often on here and Twitter? Surely, everything can be put 'into perspective'?

[lapsedhibee]

I've seen this type of comment all over Twitter too but am not really sure of the point of it. Can you put the death of an eight year old in a likely terrorist attack 'into perspective'? Or is it because it's the US?

Seeing as I've read that I should put the Boston attack and deaths into perspective a lot of times in the last twelve hours, why don't I read "Yes, it's sad that x died from cancer/heart attack/old age but there are thousands dying from the same thing every day" or "Yes, folk in the UK live in poverty but put it into perspective, folk in Niger would think UK poverty was the high life" far more often on here and Twitter? Surely, everything can be put 'into perspective'?

:agree: All this putting things into perspective needs to be put into perspective.

[Pretty Boy]

I've seen this type of comment all over Twitter too but am not really sure of the point of it. Can you put the death of an eight year old in a likely terrorist attack 'into perspective'? Or is it because it's the US?

Seeing as I've read that I should put the Boston attack and deaths into perspective a lot of times in the last twelve hours, why don't I read "Yes, it's sad that x died from cancer/heart attack/old age but there are thousands dying from the same thing every day" or "Yes, folk in the UK live in poverty but put it into perspective, folk in Niger would think UK poverty was the high life" far more often on here and Twitter? Surely, everything can be put 'into perspective'?

Agree with this.

12 kids killed in Syria, 1 in Boston or the thousands who die weekly from lack of access to something as basic as clean water. Sorry but I fail to see the need for perspective, they are all tragic.

[hibeedonald]

Agree with this.

12 kids killed in Syria, 1 in Boston or the thousands who die weekly from lack of access to something as basic as clean water. Sorry but I fail to see the need for perspective, they are all tragic.

Yeah I agree they are all shocking, I just think its sad that when it happens in a different country no one cares.

[HibsMax]

Yeah I agree they are all shocking, I just think its sad that when it happens in a different country no one cares.

But who is saying nobody cares? I think you're making a mistake if you're using media coverage as some sort of public opinion barometer. I would expect more coverage for an event like this in the US, the UK, France or pretty much anywhere that bombings are not part of daily life.

To try and put a football spin on this. I believe you can get some pretty interesting scores in lower league football but unless you scour the sports pages you're unlikely to know anything about it. Now if Man Utd beat Barelona 8-0, do you think that might make headlines? Is that fair when there are other teams that routinely put up scorelines like that? But it's not about being fair, it's delivering the news that the media outlets think the people are most interested in.....which is not to say that those same people don't care about what's happening in other countries.

In all honesty, I do care more about the people who got killed and injured in Boston yesterday than those people who get killed in Iraq. That doesn't mean I don't care about those people though, it's just that this is closer to home, and we're also not in the middle of a lengthy conflict which makes this a little more unexpected.

[yeezus.]

Shocking scenes but this really needs to be put into perspective. 31 people died in Iraq yet there's barely any media coverage. People will hopefully wake up to what living there must be like.

:agree: Well said. No BBC coverage of the children killed by U.S drone strikes on Pakistan and Yemen on almost a weekly basis.

[Beefster]

:agree: Well said. No BBC coverage of the children killed by U.S drone strikes on Pakistan and Yemen on almost a weekly basis.

Pish like this makes me just sigh because it has absolutely no basis in reality but is continually trotted out by folk desperate to make a political point.

Here's a BBC story on the 31 folk that were murdered in Iraq.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22149863

Here's a few BBC stories about a drones strikes that continue to kill innocent citizens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20804072

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19842410

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19704981

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21176279

Here's a Panorama programme about drone strikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-9ZWhcO_U

What is it about some folk nowadays that like to try and trivialise the deaths of children, based on nationality, because "it happens everywhere" or "their country kills children elsewhere"?

[yeezus.]

Pish like this makes me just sigh because it has absolutely no basis in reality but is continually trotted out by folk desperate to make a political point.

Here's a BBC story on the 31 folk that were murdered in Iraq.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22149863

Here's a few BBC stories about a drones strikes that continue to kill innocent citizens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20804072

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19842410

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19704981

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21176279

Here's a Panorama programme about drone strikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-9ZWhcO_U

What is it about some folk nowadays that like to try and trivialise the deaths of children, based on nationality, because "it happens everywhere" or "their country kills children elsewhere"?

Like usual you have completely missed the point.

These stories are insignificant to the British media - the coverage they receive should be greater.

[Beefster]

Like usual you have completely missed the point.

These stories are insignificant to the British media - the coverage they receive should be greater and we should be remembering that these civilians didn't choose to get bombs dropped on their head.

Sorry, I took you at face value when you said 'no BBC coverage'. I should have seen the hidden meaning behind those words.

[yeezus.]

Sorry, I took you at face value when you said 'no BBC coverage'. I should have seen the hidden meaning behind those words.

You spout some pish Beefster.

[Beefster]

You spout some pish Beefster.

Bit rude.

[CropleyWasGod]

Bit rude.

Wear it as a badge. It's a compliment on here, I reckon. :wink:

[yeezus.]

Bit rude.

Not really - jus sayin.

[Beefster]

Arrest made according to a few US news outlets.

[hibsbollah]

Tantalising. An arrest, but nothing about his skin tone race or ethnicity, which is really what the news outlets and politicos want to know.

[lord bunberry]

Tantalising. An arrest, but nothing about his skin tone race or ethnicity, which is really what the news outlets and politicos want to know.

I've got a feeling it's going to be far right amarican extremists that are responsible

[Hibrandenburg]

I've got a feeling it's going to be far right amarican extremists that are responsible

Hope this doesn't mean the Yanks are gonna bomb Amarica in retaliation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hope this doesn't mean the Yanks are gonna bomb Amarica in retaliation.


Doubt it... they couldn't find it on a mep.

[hibsbollah]

Doubt it... they couldn't find it on a mep.

Why has everyone started taakin like Mackems on this thread:confused:

[Betty Boop]

Tantalising. An arrest, but nothing about his skin tone race or ethnicity, which is really what the news outlets and politicos want to know.

Yeah Erik Rush, with his 'Muslims are evil. Lets kill them all ! rant.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslims-are-evil-lets-kill-them-all-us-tv-commentator-erik-rush-provokes-furious-reaction-with-boston-bombing-twitter-rants-8575176.html

[Sylar]

Yeah Erik Rush, with his 'Muslims are evil. Lets kill them all ! rant.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslims-are-evil-lets-kill-them-all-us-tv-commentator-erik-rush-provokes-furious-reaction-with-boston-bombing-twitter-rants-8575176.html

I recall reading an "essay" by this guy, a few years ago now I think, which once again attacked the compatibility of Islam and America (the article might mention it actually but I don't have access from my phone) - a complete twat who sums up a lot of what's wrong with American right-wing nutters.

In fact, take them and those who propagate the conspiracy theories (including those surrounding Sandy Hook and the Boston Marathon) whenever a Black Swan is "mistaken" for a Black Flag and kill all of them as they're WAY more dangerous than your average Muslim.*

*this is facetious rather than a serious "suggestion".

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190353


Reports that a suspect has been detained over Monday's Boston marathon bombings have been denied by officials.




Earlier, police and journalists arrived at a courthouse in Boston amid confusion over whether a suspect had been held in connection with the attacks.
"Contrary to widespread reporting, there have been no arrests made in connection with the Boston marathon attack," the FBI said in a statement.
"Over the past day and a half, there have been a number of press reports based on information from unofficial sources that has been inaccurate."

[HibsMax]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190353


Reports that a suspect has been detained over Monday's Boston marathon bombings have been denied by officials.




Earlier, police and journalists arrived at a courthouse in Boston amid confusion over whether a suspect had been held in connection with the attacks.
"Contrary to widespread reporting, there have been no arrests made in connection with the Boston marathon attack," the FBI said in a statement.
"Over the past day and a half, there have been a number of press reports based on information from unofficial sources that has been inaccurate."

Local reports say that the CLEAR video images of two suspects will likely be released to the public later today. I think those people will be in police custody almost instantly if they are still in the country. If they are innocent (and I'm speaking as if one of the pictures was of me) then the smart thing to do is call 911 and say, "Um, yeah, come get me because my face is all over the news and this has nothing to do with me". If they don't come forward then, to me, that is a sign of guilt. Not a sure sign as they may not have seen the news, etc. Seems unlikely. But innocent until proven guilty is the correct way.

If they are still in the country then I think they're toast. Even if they're outside the country, these pictures will circle the globe many times so they better be with friendly people.

[Betty Boop]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34645.htm

[HibsMax]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34645.htm

I know that "everyone" looks like a potential suspect in these photos but there are a couple that caught me eye. Before I get into them I would just say that if I saw my mug in one of these pictures I would be right on the dog n bone to the cops to clear my name. Anyone who doesn't do that is either stupid, unaware of the picture or, potentially, guilty. My assumption would be that they are unaware rather than guilt.

So to the photos.

This one (http://i.imgur.com/eePetDUh.jpg) I think is interesting because:
1. the strap looks like the strap on one of the recovered backpacks,
2. the bag actually looks heavy,
3. the guy looks like a bum. ;)

None of these prove anything, I'm just saying that it's interesting and if I was the cops I would love to speak with him and see his bag.


The next photos I find interesting are :
http://i.imgur.com/IfMWoJih.jpg
and
http://i.imgur.com/zWNvuWv.jpg

In the first image the guy clearly has a black backpack. In the second image, no backpack. There could be a very good reason for that but again, I would want to speak to that guy. It is possible, by looking at his arms, that he is holding his backpack in his hands for some reason.

I haven't found any of the other pictures I've seen as interesting as these ones. The Running Away Man picture is interesting purely because he's running like a bat out of hell and nobody else appears to be doing that. Running away after a bomb blows up is NOT grounds for arrest but he does kinda stick out like a sort thumb in that sequence of pictures.



Again though, if I saw my face in ANY of these pictures with an arrow pointing at me or a red circle, etc. I would be seeking to clear my name as quickly as possible. Perhaps that's already been done. I don't expect the feds to reveal anything before the right time.

[Sylar]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34645.htm

Some interesting and thought provoking observations and some conspiratorial nonsense.

The 2 guys standing side by side with their fingers to their ears (both wearing backpacks) immediately struck me the first time the picture is shown.

The suggestion of "military or secret police" is a stretch too far for me but the fingers to the ears synchronously suggests some form of coordination?

Could be pure coincidence but the guy on the right's bag also looked heavily laden.

[Beefster]

Seems like the police are in a running battle with the suspects right now. At the MIT campus apparently. Police and suspects injured.

[Sylar]

Seems like the police are in a running battle with the suspects right now. At the MIT campus apparently. Police and suspects injured.

It's not known that they're anything to do with the bombings yet.

Quite scary to see the scenes as I'm very familiar with MIT and the Cambridge area.

[hibsbollah]

The Boston Globe is reporting the arrested man is one of the marathon bombing cctv suspects. The other suspect escaped after a gunfight and has 'explosive devices'. All unconfirmed.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/19/boston-mit-police-dead-watertown

[wpj]

Some interesting stuff here, easy to get sucked into the conspiracy theory websites

http://www.ibtimes.com/4chan-false-flag-conspiracy-theory-predicts-boston-marathon-bombing-arrest-friday-1202073#
and here
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/04/private-military-contractors-under.html

off work today, too much time on my hands

[Beefster]

It's not known that they're anything to do with the bombings yet.

Quite scary to see the scenes as I'm very familiar with MIT and the Cambridge area.

It had been all over Twitter for about an hour beforehand that the police were privately linking them to the bombing, from the folk that monitor police radio.

Hopefully, they'll catch the second guy soon.

[Betty Boop]

One suspect dead from gunshot wounds, the other on the run, after jumping from a hi-jacked car.

[hibsbollah]

Exciting stuff.

There will be a movie starring Ben Affleck as the cop and the boy from The Life of Pi as the terrorist released within the next twelve months. Mark my words.

[Beefster]

Exciting stuff.

There will be a movie starring Ben Affleck as the cop and the boy from The Life of Pi as the terrorist released within the next twelve months. Mark my words.

Mark Wahlberg as the renegade Boston Globe reporter who uncovers the truth.

[Betty Boop]

Exciting stuff.

There will be a movie starring Ben Affleck as the cop and the boy from The Life of Pi as the terrorist released within the next twelve months. Mark my words.

Suraj Sharma is brown, the suspect is white allegedly.:greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Mark Wahlberg as the renegade Boston Globe reporter who uncovers the truth.

:agree: Ben Kingsley as the islamist training camp 'guru'.

[Mon Dieu4]

there are claims they are from Chechneya now

also say the one on the run is 19 and named Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

[Betty Boop]

Sky news reporting suspect 2 as 19 year old Chechen Dzokhar A Tsarnaev.

[khib70]

there are claims they are from Chechneya now
Not "right wing American nutters" then.....

Chechens can be found fighting with a range of Islamist extremist groups, including the Taliban. Probably not what some people want to hear.

Although the only meaningful category/group to which these people belong is "murdering *******s" at the end of the day...

[Mon Dieu4]

Not "right wing American nutters" then.....

Chechens can be found fighting with a range of Islamist extremist groups, including the Taliban. Probably not what some people want to hear.

Although the only meaningful category/group to which these people belong is "murdering *******s" at the end of the day...

yep, I've heard of the SPIR before, but im sure there are lots more

[hibsbollah]

Not "right wing American nutters" then.....

Chechens can be found fighting with a range of Islamist extremist groups, including the Taliban. Probably not what some people want to hear.

Although the only meaningful category/group to which these people belong is "murdering *******s" at the end of the day...


Im sure there are plenty of people who will be delighted at an islamist chechen connection. Vladimir Putin top of the list.

[Mon Dieu4]

Im sure there are plenty of people who will be delighted at an islamist chechen connection. Vladimir Putin top of the list.

he will come riding in on a horse with his top off and save the day

[Betty Boop]

http://rt.com/news/chechnya-suspect-boston-bombing-110/

[Beefster]

Im sure there are plenty of people who will be delighted at an islamist chechen connection. Vladimir Putin top of the list.

I reckon Putin will be very unhappy. This is going to shine a big light on Russia's brutal treatment of Chechnya. The international community is less likely to just let Russia do what they want from now on.

[LeighLoyal]

If that's where they're from then it's an another Islamist outrage. Some real hardcore terrorists come from that crap hole.

[(((Fergus)))]

Does Russia need an excuse to deal with Islamic terrorists? Seems they have rather a free hand compared with other countries fighting similar enemies, not least our own.

[CropleyWasGod]

If that's where they're from then it's an another Islamist outrage. Some real hardcore terrorists come from that crap hole.

Is it? Chechen politics are not that simple. There are Islamists, sure, but there also non-Islamist separatists.

[Westie1875]

Watching the coverage of this on CNN and can't believe what they just aired.

They were interviewing the uncle of the two bombers and he told them to follow him to their fathers address if they wanted to speak to him, they then ask him for the address live on air and he gives it out, talk about irresponsible reporting!!

[wpj]

Thing is, if this is true, were they working alone or part of something bigger? Motives? I think they will be hoping they find the other one alive. What's the score with rendition for Chechnya?

[wpj]

If that's where they're from then it's an another Islamist outrage. Some real hardcore terrorists come from that crap hole.

Looking at history, apart from the fact that what constitutes a terrorist can be open to interpretation, murder in the name of Islam does not have a monopoly on terror. Atrocities on USA soil over several decades and history in general show this.

[LeighLoyal]

Is it? Chechen politics are not that simple. There are Islamists, sure, but there also non-Islamist separatists.


Not sure I've heard of Chechen's planting bombs on civilians who were not driven by jihad, especially not on US citizens that have nowt to do with Putin.


The one that was shot dead was a hardcore islamist going by what's been leaked via facebook and you tube.

[hibsbollah]

I reckon Putin will be very unhappy. This is going to shine a big light on Russia's brutal treatment of Chechnya. The international community is less likely to just let Russia do what they want from now on.

Really? Well i suppose neither of us know whats going on in his head. It is indisputable that China and Russia have justified their appalling human rights record in inner China and Chechnya respectively as it being THEIR 'war on terror' (when in fact its just repression and that old game of expanding empires). Why does America get to have Guantanamo when we get pilloried, he complains. Public outrage in the US against apparent Chechens blowing up Bostonians will make it easier to make the case for him to be even more brutal in his own backyard, and less likely for liberal americans to get squeamish about it. That would be my take on it anyway. I bet we see a press release from Putin reflecting this shortly.

Amnesty has loads of links about Russias repression in Chechnya (including complaining about our Govts silence on the subject as far back as 2003)... heres just one.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=15762

None of this distracts from yesterdays outrage, goes without saying.

[Beefster]

Really? Well i suppose neither of us know whats going on in his head. It is indisputable that China and Russia have justified their appalling human rights record in inner China and Chechnya respectively as it being THEIR 'war on terror' (when in fact its just repression and that old game of expanding empires). Why does America get to have Guantanamo when we get pilloried, he complains. Public outrage in the US against apparent Chechens blowing up Bostonians will make it easier to make the case for him to be even more brutal in his own backyard, and less likely for liberal americans to get squeamish about it. That would be my take on it anyway. I bet we see a press release from Putin reflecting this shortly.

Amnesty has loads of links about Russias repression in Chechnya (including complaining about our Govts silence on the subject as far back as 2003)... heres just one.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=15762

None of this distracts from yesterdays outrage, goes without saying.

You may well be right. It turns out that the bombers don't have much to do with Chechnya ultimately so it's probably not going to do much good after all.

[CropleyWasGod]

You may well be right. It turns out that the bombers don't have much to do with Chechnya ultimately so it's probably not going to do much good after all.

Had a wee chuckle at the Chechen president saying "it has nothing to do with us". In other words "please, dinny bomb us."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/04/19/chechen-president-on-boston-suspects-seek-the-roots-of-this-evil-in-america/

[hibsbollah]

Suraj Sharma is brown, the suspect is white allegedly.:greengrin

After seeing photos of the suspect at large, they should definitely cast the guy who played Screech in Saved By the Bell :agree:

[Betty Boop]

19 year old is surrounded, hiding in a boat in the back-yard of a house. Wonder if they will take him alive.

[Mon Dieu4]

19 year old is surrounded, hiding in a boat in the back-yard of a house. Wonder if they will take him alive.

you would think in this day and age they could fire in sleeping gas and knock him out

[Betty Boop]

you would think in this day and age they could fire in sleeping gas and knock him out

:agree: Shot dead apparently.

[Sylar]

:agree: Shot dead apparently.

Captured and in police custody.

[mikewynne]

:agree: Well said. No BBC coverage of the children killed by U.S drone strikes on Pakistan and Yemen on almost a weekly basis.

I agree, these and many other atrocities need more coverage by the western media, it's scandalous that there isn't more coverage. I'm not pointing the finger at you by any means but the criticism of the media that inevitably follows horrific events in the USA often seems to come from an uncomfortable undercurrent of anti-Americanism.

We should have sympathy for all innocent victims of brutality, irrespective of race, religion or nationality...some in the UK seem to struggle with that concept when the victims are American.

[Sylar]

I agree, these and many other atrocities need more coverage by the western media, it's scandalous that there isn't more coverage. I'm not pointing the finger at you by any means but the criticism of the media that inevitably follows horrific events in the USA often seems to come from an uncomfortable undercurrent of anti-Americanism.

We should have sympathy for all innocent victims of brutality, irrespective of race, religion or nationality...some in the UK seem to struggle with that concept when the victims are American.

It's not an undercurrent for some posters on here, it's a bloody tsunami. They're best ignored though :aok:

[(((Fergus)))]

I agree, these and many other atrocities need more coverage by the western media, it's scandalous that there isn't more coverage. I'm not pointing the finger at you by any means but the criticism of the media that inevitably follows horrific events in the USA often seems to come from an uncomfortable undercurrent of anti-Americanism.

We should have sympathy for all innocent victims of brutality, irrespective of race, religion or nationality...some in the UK seem to struggle with that concept when the victims are American.

Why is it scandalous? We're only human and naturally care more about our own immediate and extended families or other people that are either similar to us or have some (perceived) positive or negative effect on us. Each country has its own particular media fixations.


On the other hand, who's to say that the focus on the US by our media is entirely benign? There is a considerable anti-American market in our country - and anti-American sentiment in the UK media and establishment generally - that has to be expressed and catered for. Although America, sadly, is struggling at the moment, people still love to see it suffer and fail. What their reasons might be? Ruslan Tsarni summed it up beautifully

[khib70]

It's not an undercurrent for some posters on here, it's a bloody tsunami. They're best ignored though :aok:
:agree:That's for sure

[hibsbollah]

We should have sympathy for all innocent victims of brutality, irrespective of race, religion or nationality...some in the UK seem to struggle with that concept when the victims are American.

Give an example? Seems to be plenty of sympathy around from what ive seen.

[mikewynne]

Give an example? Seems to be plenty of sympathy around from what ive seen.
I'd say that people on this thread complaining about the media coverage of this atrocity relative to other atrocities and saying that the deaths should be 'put into perspective' shows a certain lack of sympathy.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

the Locals over celebrating was simply ridiculous. Guess they've not much else to cheer.

[Sylar]

the Locals over celebrating was simply ridiculous. Guess they've not much else to cheer.

Agree wholeheartedly. I understand (to a degree) the sense of unity such an attrocity would bring to a community - 9/11 was a great example of a disaster which not only united a neighbourhood/town/city but indeed a nation. However, the triumphalism from many Bostonians hasn't sat particularly well with a lot of folks I know - there does seem to be this corollary between unity and the chest-bearing patriotism in the United States which many outsiders understandably struggle to stomach. Class and decorum are sacrificed for the desire to "win out" in the end.


Give an example? Seems to be plenty of sympathy around from what ive seen.

I'm not sure "sympathy" is the correct word - perhaps respect would be better. A good example again is 9/11 - whenever the discussion about the death toll on that awful day arises, there's a certain group of people who automatically try to balance it off against death tolls from Iraq or Afghanistan as if they feel a need to neutralise the horror of that event or reassure us in some way that America is the big ol' bad guy.

[Hibrandenburg]

Blow America off the face of the earth. Why not? They're a pain in the arse.

Did you have a carry out?

[Beefster]

Blow America off the face of the earth. Why not? They're a pain in the arse.

http://reactiongifs.imagereactor.eu/files/wm-media/reaction-gifs/shows/the-daily-show/daily-show-double-facepalm.gif

[Betty Boop]

It's not an undercurrent for some posters on here, it's a bloody tsunami. They're best ignored though :aok:

American foreign policy stinks ? Actually I feel sorry for ordinary Americans, the country looks like a police state. The ATF, FBI, SWAT teams running about, a city on lockdown, placed on virtual martial law, with 9 thousand soldiers on the streets, if I was an American citizen I'd be horrified.

[marinello59]

American foreign policy stinks ? Actually I feel sorry for ordinary Americans, the country looks like a police state. The ATF, FBI, SWAT teams running about, a city on lockdown, placed on virtual martial law, with 9 thousand soldiers on the streets, if I was an American citizen I'd be horrified.

If it had happened in your city how would you like the authorities to respond? A couple of extra Bobbies on the beat? I would guess that the ordinary Bostonians took some comfort from seeing as much resources as possible being deployed. Trying to portray America as a police state on the back of this is laughable.

[Betty Boop]

If it had happened in your city how would you like the authorities to respond? A couple of extra Bobbies on the beat? I would guess that the ordinary Bostonians took some comfort from seeing as much resources as possible being deployed. Trying to portray America as a police state on the back of this is laughable.

A few extra bobbies on the beat ? :greengrin Bostonians should be questioning one of the most incompetent searches ever, thousands of troops scouring a small area, unable to find a 19 year old hiding in a boat in someone's driveway.

[marinello59]

A few extra bobbies on the beat ? :greengrin Bostonians should be questioning one of the most incompetent searches ever, thousands of troops scouring a small area, unable to find a 19 year old hiding in a boat in someone's driveway.

His age is irrelevant. If somebody doesn't want to be found in a city landscape it can be difficult. Should they have been searching every single back yard, every garden shed, every single room in every house ? The reason so many troops were deployed in the search was simply because the massive resources they have meant they could. And he was found. Thankfully.

[Mon Dieu4]

If you know a city well its easy to disappear, if i was on the run in Edinburgh i would fancy my chances of getting away

[Betty Boop]

The FBI's sting operations.

http://factsanddetails.com/world.php?itemid=2380&catid=58&subcatid=384

[Betty Boop]

His age is irrelevant. If somebody doesn't want to be found in a city landscape it can be difficult. Should they have been searching every single back yard, every garden shed, every single room in every house ? The reason so many troops were deployed in the search was simply because the massive resources they have meant they could. And he was found. Thankfully.

Eh I think you'll find they were doing just that, by the look of things on this footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nrkcUV_7Qk

[marinello59]

Eh I think you'll find they were doing just that, by the look of things on this footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nrkcUV_7Qk

Good then, they were doing their job. What's wrong with that?

[Betty Boop]

Good then, they were doing their job. What's wrong with that?

Looks disgusting to me, but hey ho just ny opinion.

[marinello59]

Looks disgusting to me, but hey ho just ny opinion.

Who do you think is to blame for the ''disgusting''situation then? The authorities who were faced with a fugitive who had already killed and maimed scores of innocent people and had shown willing to kill more? Or the two terrorists?

[Beefster]

American foreign policy stinks ? Actually I feel sorry for ordinary Americans, the country looks like a police state. The ATF, FBI, SWAT teams running about, a city on lockdown, placed on virtual martial law, with 9 thousand soldiers on the streets, if I was an American citizen I'd be horrified.

You've confused Boston for the whole of America and confused one day for all the time.

[Hibrandenburg]

Good then, they were doing their job. What's wrong with that?

Think you'll find that for some folks the security services will always do the wrong thing. It will either be overkill or where were they. I've never understood this mentality or what motivates them to pick the negatives out of everything they do. I can only presume that they've some personal motive for doing so.

[Beefster]

Who do you think is to blame for the ''disgusting''situation then? The authorities who were faced with a fugitive who had already killed and maimed scores of innocent people and had shown willing to kill more? Or the two terrorists?

When terrorism happens in America, it's America's fault.

When terrorism happens outside America, it's America's fault.

I read it on one of the 'news' sites Betty links to.

[Scouse Hibee]

Looks disgusting to me, but hey ho just ny opinion.


What a bizarre thing to say! Please explain on how you would have tackled the same issue.

[Betty Boop]

When terrorism happens in America, it's America's fault.

When terrorism happens outside America, it's America's fault.

I read it on one of the 'news' sites Betty links to.

If you go into countries conducting drone strikes, bombing and maiming innocent civilians, backing dictators of choice, arming jihadis, then waging a phony war on terror, why are people socked and surprised when the US encounters terror in their own backyard ? I'm sorry I can't get my head round that. :confused:

[Betty Boop]

What a bizarre thing to say! Please explain on how you would have tackled the same issue.

Bizarre how ? Similar though to the way they do house to house searches in Iraq and Afghanistan, maybe the American public believe that is a price worth paying.

[hibsbollah]

If you know a city well its easy to disappear, if i was on the run in Edinburgh i would fancy my chances of getting away

Bull******, Those in the know would find you in the Harp and Castle:greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Bizarre how ? Similar though to the way they do house to house searches in Iraq and Afghanistan, maybe the American public believe that is a price worth paying.

I think you want to complain about US foreign policy in general, which is fair enough, but has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the Boston police response or lockdowns or the other things you're complaining about.

[Betty Boop]

I think you want to complain about US foreign policy in general, which is fair enough, but has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the Boston police response or lockdowns or the other things you're complaining about.
Ordering citizens out of their homes at gunpoint and going through three rounds of pat downs, seems well over the top to me. I am drawing comparison to the way the military conduct searches in war zones, looks very similar to me.

[hibsbollah]

Ordering citizens out of their homes at gunpoint and going through three rounds of pat downs, seems well over the top to me. I am drawing comparison to the way the military conduct searches in war zones, looks very similar to me.

Id imagine they wanted to avoid any further innocent deaths, which they succeeded in doing. Tsarnaev had already shot and killed a policeman at MIT and was carrying a number of bombs and guns, remember.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Blow America off the face of the earth. Why not? They're a pain in the arse.

Was this a drink induced post? If not, you are a fud.

[Sir David Gray]

Ordering citizens out of their homes at gunpoint and going through three rounds of pat downs, seems well over the top to me. I am drawing comparison to the way the military conduct searches in war zones, looks very similar to me.

For the whole of last week, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his brother were the two most wanted men in the whole of the United States. Despite his age, he was suspected of carrying out a terrorist attack which had resulted in fatalities and many injuries and had just managed to escape after allegedly being involved in a shootout with police, resulting in one officer being killed.

What exactly would you expect the response to be under those circumstances? :confused:

The fact he is 19 years old is totally irrelevant. They had no idea what he was potentially planning next, what explosives or firearms he had on him or if he had other associates with him as well.

I would have thought that most people in the city of Boston and the surrounding areas would have been reassured by the high police presence in the area and if you have nothing to hide, I really don't see why you would object to such checks. It's not as if it happens every day.

It was a unique set of circumstances and, in my opinion, it was justified as it resulted in the ideal outcome for everyone, which is that the man they were looking for has been captured alive and will hopefully survive his injuries so he can stand trial and answer for his alleged crimes.

[silverhibee]

How many folk stayed in that house. :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

Bull******, Those in the know would find you in the Harp and Castle:greengrin

haha good point

[Betty Boop]

.https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

[marinello59]

.https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

You still haven't answered the question I asked you in post 97. Perhaps actually condemning the terrorists is a step to far for you though.
You do seem to be making assumptions about what motivated these young men though. At the moment we simply don't know.

[Beefster]

.https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

I found some US mainstream media stories about the assassination of the Chechens in Turkey. According to your link, these don't exist. Do I win a prize?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/10/12/turkey-detains-man-in-attempted-murder-chechen/

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-501714_162-20107394.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russian-assassin-sought-istanbul-chechen-murders/story?id=14572335#.UXRFHZU5hUQ

[hibsbollah]

.https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

1. Analysis of Russia's record of extra judicial killings of Chechens: accurate.

2.Reports of US neo-con loonies and US intelligence supporting Chechen separatists in the 1990s as a tactic to further fragment Russia's collapsed empire: plausible.

3. Implication that the US is STILL deliberately engaged in encouraging Islamist terror in the region: no evidence provided and highly dubious anyway. Why would they want to?


Is the author saying the Boston bombers were motivated by hatred of the US caused by US involvement in Chechnya rather than a generic hatred of US foreign policy in Muslim countries? Or is it the opposite, they were beneficiaries of CIA training but went native and attacked America instead? I genuinely dont know if he is, or if he's saying something else, but it seems a strange claim to make either way. If revenge for the goings on in Chechnya was the bombers main motivation their target would have been a sporting event in Moscow.

[mikewynne]

.https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

Dozens of ordinary people either die or lose limbs and you are hunting for Wordpress blogs to somehow suggest that they deserved it. Wow.

[carnoustiehibee]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/19-year-old-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-still-had-his-backpack-on-after-boston-marathon-bombing-proof-inside-2626104.html?utm_medium=static&utm_campaign=&utm_source=direct-b4in.info&utm_content=awesm-publisher_static&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2Fh29A

[Beefster]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/19-year-old-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-still-had-his-backpack-on-after-boston-marathon-bombing-proof-inside-2626104.html?utm_medium=static&utm_campaign=&utm_source=direct-b4in.info&utm_content=awesm-publisher_static&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2Fh29A

Are you saying you believe this? There have been a few fairly clear pictures of him without the backpack - one right after the second explosion IIRC.

I follow a few terrorism experts on Twitter and a few of them have made the point that, although its part of their job to read/investigate the countless conspiracy theories that spring up after every terrorism event, they refuse to engage anyone spouting them because you deal with one point and the theory subsequently changes to deal with the inconsistency or its explained away in some fantastic way. 9/11 is a prime example. FFS, there are still folk who believe that the moon landings didn't actually happen.

PS The guy in your link is obviously a fruit loop. No different to the other folk on YouTube posting 'evidence' of alien life in Antarctic research station footage or UFOs in clouds.

[Sylar]

Are you saying you believe this? There have been a few fairly clear pictures of him without the backpack - one right after the second explosion IIRC.

I follow a few terrorism experts on Twitter and a few of them have made the point that, although its part of their job to read/investigate the countless conspiracy theories that spring up after every terrorism event, they refuse to engage anyone spouting them because you deal with one point and the theory subsequently changes to deal with the inconsistency or its explained away in some fantastic way. 9/11 is a prime example. FFS, there are still folk who believe that the moon landings didn't actually happen.

PS The guy in your link is obviously a fruit loop. No different to the other folk on YouTube posting 'evidence' of alien life in Antarctic research station footage or UFOs in clouds.

I dunno, have you seen some of the researchers who work at the BAS? :greengrin

Agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though Beef. Conspiracy nuts would be first against the wall :agree:

[HibsMax]

Blow America off the face of the earth. Why not? They're a pain in the arse.

Thanks for your contribution.

[HibsMax]

American foreign policy stinks ? Actually I feel sorry for ordinary Americans, the country looks like a police state. The ATF, FBI, SWAT teams running about, a city on lockdown, placed on virtual martial law, with 9 thousand soldiers on the streets, if I was an American citizen I'd be horrified.

Most people (everyone I've spoken to or heard from, barring one person on Facebook) thinks that this has been handled with about as well as could be expected, especially given the time involved.

I don't think it's fair to say that the country looks like a police state. Based on what, this ONE manhunt? It was hardly martial law (for instance, did you see the photo of the cop delivering milk to one family who had young children?) Under the circumstances it made perfect sense to take the measures that they did. And they worked. They caught him. And when the various law enforcement officials left they left to cheering and applause....not exactly the actions of unhappy people. I am not going to say that there aren't some people pissed off but I have yet to see anyone who was horrified. Selective journalism? Not sure but I was watching a variety of news stations to get different points of view and there didn't seem to be any disagreement (except when different channels were trying to rush to the air with unconfirmed / flaky stories).

If you're going to feel sorry for ordinary Americans, feel sorry for those that lost loved ones or who were injured.

[HibsMax]

A few extra bobbies on the beat ? :greengrin Bostonians should be questioning one of the most incompetent searches ever, thousands of troops scouring a small area, unable to find a 19 year old hiding in a boat in someone's driveway.

Are you kidding? They setup a 20 block perimeter and the kid was found just outside of that. If they setup a 40 block perimeter and he was a block outside of that, they would still take abuse from certain quarters. You've obviously got an agenda or an axe to grind so I'll leave it at that.

[HibsMax]

A few extra bobbies on the beat ? :greengrin Bostonians should be questioning one of the most incompetent searches ever, thousands of troops scouring a small area, unable to find a 19 year old hiding in a boat in someone's driveway.


Looks disgusting to me, but hey ho just ny opinion.

Are you saying the law enforcement officials' search was incompetent or too invasive? I'm not too sure what you find disgusting about the video. Is it the way the police are blunt and using raised voices?

[Beefster]

Bomb gone off in Moscow.

[NOLA]

I'm guessing next years Boston marathon will be run in a record time.

[Godsahibby]

One for the conspiracy theorists

http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

[NOLA]

One for the conspiracy theorists

http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

Interesting, I love a good conspiracy.

[Beefster]

One for the conspiracy theorists

http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

Only if he had gotten some stuff correct. I couldn't find one thing. The underlined thing is good but there wasn't a raid on Friday - the authorities responded to the two bombers shooting someone AFAIK.

I would have thought that the hoo-ha over the 'crowd-sourced detectives' identifying wrong suspects on numerous occasions would put folk off being so eager to believe this nonsense.

Now, if he had predicted the Boston bombing before it happened...

PS this isn't directed at you.

Edit: the photo of the guy on the ground, identified as 'suspect 1' further down the page isn't even the elder brother/bomber. Several folk were arrested at gunpoint as they searched for the bombers. The photos show one of the guys arrested and subsequently released.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-naked-man-mystery-role-in-boston-2013-4

[carnoustiehibee]

Only if he had gotten some stuff correct. I couldn't find one thing. The underlined thing is good but there wasn't a raid on Friday - the authorities responded to the two bombers shooting someone AFAIK.

I would have thought that the hoo-ha over the 'crowd-sourced detectives' identifying wrong suspects on numerous occasions would put folk off being so eager to believe this nonsense.


Now, if he had predicted the Boston bombing before it happened...

PS this isn't directed at you.

Edit: the photo of the guy on the ground, identified as 'suspect 1' further down the page isn't even the elder brother/bomber. Several folk were arrested at gunpoint as they searched for the bombers. The photos show one of the guys arrested and subsequently released.http://www.businessinsider.com/the-naked-man-mystery-role-in-boston-2013-4

Is there an interview with this naked man? Or even a name?

[Beefster]

Is there an interview with this naked man? Or even a name?

Why would there be?

[carnoustiehibee]

Why would there be?

Surely the man has a name.

[(((Fergus)))]

Why would there be?

"Needless to say, Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/blackboard/business-insider) is interested to hear Naked Man's personal story — send any tips to [email protected]."

[Beefster]

Surely the man has a name.

I would presume so. Don't most people?

[carnoustiehibee]

I would presume so. Don't most people?

You asked "why would there be" ? Strange question to ask seeing how you've just answered it yourself. Your not one of THEM are you?

[Beefster]

You asked "why would there be" ? Strange question to ask seeing how you've just answered it yourself. Your not one of THEM are you?

I was asking why there would be an media interview or even a name released for an innocent man, arrested as a precaution, in a terrorism manhunt. Given the treatment of Sunil Tripathi's (another innocent person who lots of amateur detectives decided looked like someone else) family, I'd imagine he'd be well advised to stay anonymous.

I do love debating with folk who believe conspiracy theories.

[(((Fergus)))]

I was asking why there would be an interview or even a name released for an innocent man, arrested as a precaution, in a terrorism manhunt.

I do love debating with folk who believe conspiracy theories.

Because as your own link indicates there *is* a media interest in talking with this bloke.

[Beefster]

Because as your own link indicates there *is* a media interest in talking with this bloke.

I edited my post to make it clear I wasn't talking about the desire of the media to speak to him but why he would want to speak to the media (or have his name released).

[(((Fergus)))]

I edited my post to make it clear I wasn't talking about the desire of the media to speak to him but why he would want to speak to the media (or have his name released).

OK, but it is not inconceivable that he might want to talk to someone, possibly anonymously - for money if nothing else.

[hibsbollah]

Mocking everything that is labelled a 'conspiracy theory' is as stupid as believing every crackpot story out there. I sometimes think we need another Watergate to remind us. In fact, when you think about WMDs, MPs expenses, abuse scandals, police corruption stories over recent years, it could be argued that we're living in an age where conspiracy is demonstrably rife.

[Beefster]

Mocking everything that is labelled a 'conspiracy theory' is as stupid as believing every crackpot story out there. I sometimes think we need another Watergate to remind us. In fact, when you think about WMDs, MPs expenses, abuse scandals, police corruption stories over recent years, it could be argued that we're living in an age where conspiracy is demonstrably rife.

All the crimes and scandals you've mentioned were uncovered by journalists and didnt consist of a list of "i'm just asking" questions designed to cast doubt on official versions without offering any evidence or some incorrectly identified photos from someone whose main qualification is to have looked at some photos online.

If I was mocking, I wouldn't even be wasting my time by pointing out where the theory is wrong.

Edit: has there ever been a conspiracy theory that started online with a list of questions and photos that was eventually proven beyond doubt?

[hibsbollah]

All the crimes and scandals you've mentioned were uncovered by journalists and didnt consist of a list of "i'm just asking" questions designed to cast doubt on official versions without offering any evidence or some incorrectly identified photos from someone whose main qualification is to have looked at some photos online.

If I was mocking, I wouldn't even be wasting my time by pointing out where the theory is wrong.

I wasnt really talking about your post specifically, its just a general observation.

[Beefster]

I wasnt really talking about your post specifically, its just a general observation.

Apologies.

[hibsbollah]

Apologies.

Not at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/3477148/The-greatest-conspiracy-theories-in-history.html?image=19

This is quite good. The ones that i thought sounded most plausible were 'Peak Oil' and Shakespeare didnt write his plays'. Operation Northwoods, the CIAs attempt to overthrow Castro, was of course true.

[Sylar]

Mocking everything that is labelled a 'conspiracy theory' is as stupid as believing every crackpot story out there. I sometimes think we need another Watergate to remind us. In fact, when you think about WMDs, MPs expenses, abuse scandals, police corruption stories over recent years, it could be argued that we're living in an age where conspiracy is demonstrably rife.

I can only presume there's some aim at my earlier post here HB?

I do have some sympathy and can identify with those people who fixate on finding a conspiracy in everything. As a scientist, it's in my nature to ask questions, pose theories and investigate ideas, no matter how bizarre they might start out as (sitting at lunch one day rotating a bottle of water whilst staring outside gave me an idea about water vortice behaviour which spawned a resulting paper). However, there has to be a line between investigative intrigue and the type of people who cannot desist from their mindset that the Official version is a lie and those of us who believe it have been brainwashed - who want to see an anti-institutional slant in every single event and paint it up as deceit, corrupt or Black Flag (rather than Black Swan).

9/11 is a great example of this. Here we have perhaps the most documented event in all of mankind with different vantages, stories, recordings, experiences and ideas. Never before has science (and society in general) been blessed with such a high concentration of data and documentation, allowing us to dissect one of the most abhorrent events in history. Yet, much like the problem of selective quoting, we have selective evidence citation which goes beyond the initial intrigue and uses dangerous hypotheses to try and draw up some alternative reality. Because "Engineer X" says this about structural integrity under high stress conditions, it proves this...anyone familiar with scientific literature will know instantly that there are very few sole authorities and part of the reason science is continually funded and evolving is that new methods, different approaches, developing knowledge and varied means of analysis are constantly being developed and as such, opinions (all a hypothesis really is at the end of the day) vary wildly until consensus is reached.

So whilst a degree of cynicism and inquisitive nature are incredibly healthy, the type of person who would try and see things which aren't there (i.e., Sandy Hook, Columbine, 9/11, the Aurora Massacre, Virginia Tech, IRA Bombings...) for the sake of fulfilling a world view is not.

[hibsbollah]

I can only presume there's some aim at my earlier post here HB?

I do have some sympathy and can identify with those people who fixate on finding a conspiracy in everything. As a scientist, it's in my nature to ask questions, pose theories and investigate ideas, no matter how bizarre they might start out as (sitting at lunch one day rotating a bottle of water whilst staring outside gave me an idea about water vortice behaviour which spawned a resulting paper). However, there has to be a line between investigative intrigue and the type of people who cannot desist from their mindset that the Official version is a lie and those of us who believe it have been brainwashed - who want to see an anti-institutional slant in every single event and paint it up as deceit, corrupt or Black Flag (rather than Black Swan).

9/11 is a great example of this. Here we have perhaps the most documented event in all of mankind with different vantages, stories, recordings, experiences and ideas. Never before has science (and society in general) been blessed with such a high concentration of data and documentation, allowing us to dissect one of the most abhorrent events in history. Yet, much like the problem of selective quoting, we have selective evidence citation which goes beyond the initial intrigue and uses dangerous hypotheses to try and draw up some alternative reality. Because "Engineer X" says this about structural integrity under high stress conditions, it proves this...anyone familiar with scientific literature will know instantly that there are very few sole authorities and part of the reason science is continually funded and evolving is that new methods, different approaches, developing knowledge and varied means of analysis are constantly being developed and as such, opinions (all a hypothesis really is at the end of the day) vary wildly until consensus is reached.

So whilst a degree of cynicism and inquisitive nature are incredibly healthy, the type of person who would try and see things which aren't there (i.e., Sandy Hook, Columbine, 9/11, the Aurora Massacre, Virginia Tech, IRA Bombings...) for the sake of fulfilling a world view is not.

I dont have any argument with that, and i hadnt noticed Beefsters or your posts either, so I wasn't taking 'aim' (unlike your metaphorical firing squad) :greengrin But in general, 'Conspiracy Theory' has just become a pejorative, without any commonly agreed definition. It suggests that if something is previously unreported, under reported or misreported by the mainstream media, by Governments or by the elite, then it's either irrelevant or paranoid ramblings of lunatics. Which in politics especially is a dangerous position to take.

All powerful Nations have Governments that deploy a secret service, that carry out espionage, counterintelligence, sabotage, murder etc. it's always been like that since some senators thought it would be a good idea to stick some cutlery into Julius Caesar. Politics and State power is a dirty business. Faked moon landings, 9/11, aliens are on the unlikely or fantastic end of the scale, but believing the official version of events is always the whole story doesn't make any sense either. Russian spies were running about London with spiked umbrellas shooting plutonium into Putins opponents not so long ago.

Which is totally off topic:hijack:

[lapsedhibee]

In fact, when you think about WMDs, MPs expenses, abuse scandals, police corruption stories over recent years, it could be argued that we're living in an age where conspiracy is demonstrably rife.

Not forgetting the most important of them all - Green and Whyte, the peepul's conspiracy.

Thank goodness for Woodward, Bernstein and Traynor.

[Pete]

I'm not surprised they turned out like that after listening to their mother.

Millions of Muslims all over the US will be feeling slightly more uncomfortable after that. Well done lady.

[Beefster]

I'm not surprised they turned out like that after listening to their mother.

Millions of Muslims all over the US will be feeling slightly more uncomfortable after that. Well done lady.

Apparently she can't return to the US because she's wanted for shoplifting. That'll be America's fault too.

[Barman Stanton]

I was asking why there would be an media interview or even a name released for an innocent man, arrested as a precaution, in a terrorism manhunt. Given the treatment of Sunil Tripathi's (another innocent person who lots of amateur detectives decided looked like someone else) family, I'd imagine he'd be well advised to stay anonymous.

I do love debating with folk who believe conspiracy theories.

You do know that a US court confirmed there was a conspiracy with the JFK murder? They can happen. It seems incredibly naive to just dismiss any chance of one.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy in this case but there are many questions that remain unanswered.

[Beefster]

You do know that a US court confirmed there was a conspiracy with the JFK murder?

Do you have a link to this? It would be interesting to read.

[VickMackie]

Do you have a link to this? It would be interesting to read.

There's a thread on a site called boxingscene in the lounge called the driver shot JFK. Looking at the gifs and other evidence he appears to be correct in that there was a conspiracy. I knew next to nothing beforehand but what he's said seemed pretty convincing

[Barman Stanton]

Do you have a link to this? It would be interesting to read.

No but I will have a look later. I have it on a DVD. The first doctor who saw him after also confirmed that the bullet holes had been tampered with. This is not some nut, it was the doctor who undertook the initial examination.

I'm sure it must be easy enough to find on YouTube.

FWIW I don't think this bombing is a conspiracy. I just don't think it can be dismissed so easily.

[Barman Stanton]

Do you have a link to this? It would be interesting to read.

The telegraph link above mentions that in 1979 the HSCA concluded that a conspiracy probably existed.

[HibsMax]

Head over to infowars.com if you want to read some eye-opening theories.

And how about this (http://enfordummies.com/wordpress/more-proof-evidence-boston-bombing-man-leg-blown-off-fake/)?

[clerriehibs]

However, there has to be a line between investigative intrigue and the type of people who cannot desist from their mindset that the Official version is a lie and those of us who believe it have been brainwashed - who want to see an anti-institutional slant in every single event and paint it up as deceit, corrupt or Black Flag (rather than Black Swan).


The official version is always a lie to some extent, because there will always be some degree of propaganda behind it.

[HibsMax]

I am interested to know how there was a shoot out when no gun was found on the boat. Who was shooting at the police then? Hmmm.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I am interested to know how there was a shoot out when no gun was found on the boat. Who was shooting at the police then? Hmmm.

Your falling for the conspiracy ?

[HibsMax]

Your falling for the conspiracy ?

I'm not falling for anything but it's a valid question. How can there be a shoot out if only one side has guns? If he didn't have a gun he couldn't have fired upon them. So why did they shoot at him? My wife says a guy at her work (who has cop friends - which means nothing) said that the cops were seeking revenge for them shooting another cop earlier in the day. That seems ridiculous to me since killing him would have solved nothing.

Which conspiracy are you talking about anyway? There are many. Also, since the "no gun on boat" came from law enforcement officials it hardly qualifies as a conspiracy theory (which are usually started by crackpots, not the police).

[Sylar]

Three more people have been arrested in connection with the bombings which sort of throws into the air the earlier suggestions from the Boston PD that the 2 brothers acted alone!

[Beefster]

Three more people have been arrested in connection with the bombings which sort of throws into the air the earlier suggestions from the Boston PD that the 2 brothers acted alone!

I thought that claim came from the surviving brother?

[Sylar]

I thought that claim came from the surviving brother?

I recall the press conference with Boston PD after they captured the surviving brother that they believed they acted alone.


Authorities had earlier suggested that the two brothers were believed to have worked alone.

Also mentioned in the BBC News report.

[VickMackie]

I recall the press conference with Boston PD after they captured the surviving brother that they believed they acted alone.



Also mentioned in the BBC News report.

Maybe there's new evidence?

[Sylar]

Maybe there's new evidence?

I've no idea! I'm not suggesting any elaborate cover-up or witholding of information - merely sharing an updated news story.

[HibsMax]

It doesn't seem like they were involved, only that they tried to destroy / hide evidence after the fact, to protect their friend. Certainly foolish given the gravity of the situation but I don't think they had anything to do with the actual bombing.

But who knows....

[Sylar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341

I find this article quite laughable really - 'Tsarnaev possessed right-wing literature' and literature which discusses the conspiracies that 9/11 was an inside job. He also apparently "hated America" and their presence in the Middle East, feeling that they were only their for oil and he held "white supremacist" literature which contains the line ("Hitler had a point").

It's vague, it's irrelevant and it in no way shape or form should be used to try and profile against him. I'm not advocating any conspiracy theory and I do believe Tsarnaev is probably guilty but if the authorities were to go through my book collection (which is pretty extensive) they'd find left wing material (including Marx's Communist Manifesto) and right wing material (including a copy of Mein Kampf)...I've watched plenty of videos online which discuss the conspiracies surrounding 9/11 but wholeheartedly find them laughable and scientifically flawed (i.e., just because I've watched them, doesn't mean I tow the opinion put forth in them). Plenty of people across the globe believe America to be in the Middle East to preserve oil interests (I dare say that number is greater than those who believe they're genuinely there for democratic and peaceful process).

[hibsbollah]

I agree. His reading matter isnt a smoking gun. After 9/11 I started reading a whole load of stuff on Islam and Islamism, and checking out a load of websites on the subject. Purely because I didnt know much about it and I wanted to. Again, we return to the subject of freedom, state intrusion into our online reading habits and America's gradual erosion of liberty under Obama, which is the opposite of what we expected. Journalists need to think about the implications of stories like this. Being interested in political themes, international politics and extremism (ie: the world we live in) shouldnt in itself be grounds for suspecting someone of a crime. I'd imagine in Tsaernaevs case, its marginal evidence anyway and giving it to the media serves no purpose..


*Emoticon inserted in error!*

[Phil D. Rolls]

Dozens of ordinary people either die or lose limbs and you are hunting for Wordpress blogs to somehow suggest that they deserved it. Wow.

Civilians don't deserve to be hurt in wars. Some are lucky enough to live in countries where they are able to influence their government through the democratic process.

Surely it's right, for those who are able to, to seek out ways to end wars. Access to information, and mature debate is essential.

If that debate unearths truths we are unhappy about, should we just ignore that information? I wonder how Bloody Sunday was reported in the British media.