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View Full Version : Delusions of Grandeur. (The thread formerly known as Illusions of grandyoor?)



beensaidbefore
06-04-2013, 11:55 PM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

alexhibs
07-04-2013, 12:02 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

No we expect and should expect more than this drivel

Liberal Hibby
07-04-2013, 12:04 AM
I dunno - I quite like the idea of illusions of grandeur. It's kind of wistful (and very Hibs).

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 12:05 AM
No we expect and should expect more than this drivel

I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

Wotherspiniesta
07-04-2013, 12:08 AM
This is my favourite Illusion:

http://andrewpetrosoniak.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/optical-illusion-man.jpg

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 12:10 AM
I dunno - I quite like the idea of illusions of grandeur. It's kind of wistful (and very Hibs).

:greengrin

That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 12:15 AM
This is my favourite Illusion:

http://andrewpetrosoniak.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/optical-illusion-man.jpg

personally, this ones my favourite


http://wordsculptures.com/page/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/illusion.jpg

alexhibs
07-04-2013, 12:21 AM
I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

Eh? Hibs, thats why

alexhibs
07-04-2013, 12:23 AM
I get that part. My question is why do we expect this, what evidence is there to back up these assertions?

Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC

TornadoHibby
07-04-2013, 12:27 AM
:greengrin

That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

Most definately not! :confused:

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!! :rolleyes:

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT. :confused:

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better! :agree:

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday! :wink: :agree:

Emerald
07-04-2013, 12:29 AM
Most definately not! :confused:

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!! :rolleyes:

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT. :confused:

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better! :agree:

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday! :wink: :agree:

That is exactly where I am. :agree:

Liberal Hibby
07-04-2013, 12:41 AM
:greengrin

That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good?

Except down underneath we know we've never really been any good.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 01:22 AM
Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC


Exactly my point. we are Hibs, and if someone was to stumble accross football in Scotland for the first time, looking at league tables and records of cups, it would be difficult for them to form an opinion that considered us anything other than an also ran.

Feed McGraw
07-04-2013, 01:25 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

Eh ? Top o the league, semi finals, cups every decade, play like Spanish national team ? Is that what you think the Hibs support expects ? Well, we are even more faithful than I thought we were if that`s the case. Gaun the Hibs support ! BTW, its " DELUSIONS" if you have to use that phrase again.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 01:28 AM
Most definately not! :confused:

Some of us are old enough and young enough to remember some enduring scintillating Hibs footballing times and it is disappointing for some like me perhaps particularly to pay decent money to watch unappealing and pretty poor football with dismal results like we have had pretty much since JC walked not long after our last triumph in 2007!! :rolleyes:

What's worse is that no decent youngsters mature enough to be played in the first team seem to be emerging from East Mains and that is very worrying as such good youngsters as we seem to be missing right now are exactly what we need right now alongside some key position seasoned and talented senior pros like KT. :confused:

Sometimes guys like me just get to the point where maybe there are things I'd rather be doing than paying good money to watch poor quality football at a stadium where I've seen far better! :agree:

I guess I'm just getting close to that "walk away" position although I have renewed my ST for next season and have sufficient tickets for the semi final on Saturday! :wink: :agree:

I understand exactly what your saying, what im suggesting is although occasionally we have a good season or two, it may be these that are fleeting moments of 'success', in the sense we are playing abpve our station.
I dont feel that languishing in the bottom half is necessarily where we should be, but if all teams fullfilled their potential, and equalled their most successful times, we would still be somewhere nearer the middle of the table than the top.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 01:37 AM
Eh ? Top o the league, semi finals, cups every decade, play like Spanish national team ? Is that what you think the Hibs support expects ? Well, we are even more faithful than I thought we were if that`s the case. Gaun the Hibs support ! BTW, its " DELUSIONS" if you have to use that phrase again.

Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you...:confused: My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

NOLA
07-04-2013, 02:01 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.
Shaun lawson should take tips from you.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 02:03 AM
Shaun lawson should take tips from you.

eh?

Pretty Boy
07-04-2013, 06:02 AM
I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

marinello59
07-04-2013, 06:16 AM
I think the minimum we should expect every season is a League, Cup and X factor treble.
Signed
Arch Duke Marinello the Third.

#FromTheCapital
07-04-2013, 06:23 AM
I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

Spot on.

Moon unit
07-04-2013, 06:30 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

Delusions of Grandeur....are beliefs firmly held by the cocky bar stewards that reside at the Wongadome! Not by most Hibees,who enjoy the moments when they come along. Speak to the majority of our Pink bus shelter loving friends and they will quote "Big Team, third force,we were better than Liverpool pish"!
I admit that it's a struggle watching Hibs and we all want an improvement in the style of play,but are'nt Deluded enough to think we should win the league and be creaming teams week in week out.
Let the Yambo's live in that world of self importance as the rest of the world ( to their dismay) does not care a Monkeys arse about them!

BoltonHibee
07-04-2013, 07:05 AM
In the current set up, we should be finishing or at least challenging heavily for second place in the league. After all, we have been told that everything is in place and that we just need to concentrate on the football. We have an infrastructure that is in the top 3 in Scotland.

We should also expect good cup runs, and the odd cup win. ( perhaps every 2 to 3 year wins, in any of the cup competitions)

The field is open for us to achieve this as a club.

A well run board and good management should be able to deliver this.

Captain Trips
07-04-2013, 08:01 AM
I don't have delusions of grandeur.

What I do have is an expectation that we should be more competetive at the right end of the table than the likes of ICT or Ross County.

Why? Because i'm being disrespectful to those clubs? Because we're Hibs?

No, it's because we have a fanbase, infastructure, resources and finances that mean we should be more competitive. If we don't then we have even bigger problems than I thought.

This

brydekirk
07-04-2013, 08:21 AM
Eh? Coz we are Hibernian FC

From the Capital

Captain Trips
07-04-2013, 08:28 AM
Illusions of not playing the same boring way regardless of opposition, illusions of a club spending millions on infrastructure and having a decent in comparison budget actually showing we have these advantages.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
07-04-2013, 08:35 AM
Delusions of Grandeur....are beliefs firmly held by the cocky bar stewards that reside at the Wongadome! Not by most Hibees,who enjoy the moments when they come along. Speak to the majority of our Pink bus shelter loving friends and they will quote "Big Team, third force,we were better than Liverpool pish"!
I admit that it's a struggle watching Hibs and we all want an improvement in the style of play,but are'nt Deluded enough to think we should win the league and be creaming teams week in week out.
Let the Yambo's live in that world of self importance as the rest of the world ( to their dismay) does not care a Monkeys arse about them!


:agree:

Danderhall Hibs
07-04-2013, 08:44 AM
personally, this ones my favourite


http://wordsculptures.com/page/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/illusion.jpg

What am I supposed to see? I see an old dear with a head scarf on?

hibbydog
07-04-2013, 09:31 AM
Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you...:confused: My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

This is a very good point.

I have fairly modest expectations of Hibs, based on the last 30 or so years evidence where we've won the league cup twice, been relegated twice and had the odd (brief) venture into the uefa cup. But generally we finish around mid table.

You could look at it from the 'size of club' perspective. Based on attendances and trophies, i consider Hibs as the 5th biggest club in the country, behind the old firm hearts (sorry!) and Aberdeen.

So....based on this we should expect to finish 4th in a league without the Huns and win a trophy every now and then. Whilst there will obviously be cycles where we under achieve, like Hibs (and Aberdeen) have done for the last 6 or so years, I suppose this means we should also have periods where we punch above our weight too?!

It doesn't stop the fans having bigger ambitions though, so in reply to your original question, I think the Hibs fans are better described as 'wanting better' rather than having delusions of grandeur.

Cheers

HFC 0-7
07-04-2013, 09:43 AM
Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you...:confused: My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.


Why do we expect these things? Firstly, because that's what the board are targeting. We have the finances, infrastructure and fan base to achieve these things. We are being overtaken by teams that have only been in the spl for 5 minutes and in the Scottish main leagues for a bit longer. In recent seasons we have been setting records, or being closes to them, for all the wrong reasons such as games without wins etc, so why should we expect more?

in any business if you have a bigger income stream and customer base, better facilities and infrastructure than 10 out of 12 competitors where would you expect to be performing?

Golden Bear
07-04-2013, 09:43 AM
No illusions of grandeur from me. In fact right now, I'm thinking that at odds of 17/4, Falkirk are a tempting bet for next week.

Ray_
07-04-2013, 09:48 AM
Except down underneath we know we've never really been any good.

Oh but we were, we may not have won much but we could entertain and put in performances that the fans could be proud of and not only on these shores, decades of under performing rubbish and ridiculously poor leadership, won't change that.

NAE NOOKIE
07-04-2013, 09:50 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

You have answered your own question there mate. To expect a club of Hibs size to do better than two third place finishes and one league cup win in the space of 12 years isnt delusions of grandure .. its a reasonable expectation.

I would agree that there is a certain misty eyed nostalgia surrounding the sexy football memories which in my experience over the last 30 odd years has rarely been the reality of Hibs football. But the acid test is league placings, European qualicication and cup wins, all of which have been sadly lacking.

Never mind since the SPL started, in the Farmer era we have, as you rightly say, been mid table scrappers and no better, in some cases worse, than the Motherwells or Kilmarnocks of this world ..... If any Hibs fan ever finds that acceptable then its time to chuck it.

Aye we have a lovely stadium ..... but whats the point of having a nice house but nae furniture. We are a club with the support and facilities to do much better than we have and since the 70s we have failed to do so ..... by the way I say "since the 70s because the club were doing good things in Europe .... the bottom line is that even the Tornadoes only managed one meagre league cup win.

What can we do about it .............. Sir Tom ?

chrisski33
07-04-2013, 09:56 AM
I expect hibs to finish in top 6 no matter what and to finish in bottom 6 unacceptable. If a hibs manager cant get us in the top 6 they should be punted. Dont see these expectations as illusions of grandeur

Feed McGraw
07-04-2013, 09:56 AM
Thanks Feed, who knows where we would be without you...:confused: My point is, guys on here talk like Hibs are some amazing side that deserve to be at footballs top table cos we had a good team that played nice football sometime before most of us were born.

as opposed to your attempts at being a smart arse, you could tell us what your expectations are, as the pish some folk talk on here about us being this great passing side, etc etc is laugable. fans calling for a new manager every 5 minutes, getting on the players back suggests to me that they feel like we deserve more. My question still remains, why do we as a support in general expect these things when evidence and history indicates that the odds are stacked heavily against us.

Genuinely apologise for coming across as a smart arse, it was a stupid time for me to post coming in from a big night out and still smarting from a horrible day which started with watching the jammy sparryheids comeback, seeing the outsider that I mulled over, (but obviously didnt back) in the National, romp home (80/1 at the time) then good old Hibs finishing me off, I was just a moany old drunk when I replied to your post. Again, sorry mate.

However, I still do think for the most part Hibs supporters do not have high expectations, but do deserve much, much more than the non-combative and non-entertaining dross we have been served up these last few years.

Ray_
07-04-2013, 10:10 AM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.

I hope if you have a business your attitude would change. The realistic business aspirations from Hibs board is that we are regularly competing at the top end of the league and at least reaching cup semi's, again on a regular basis. Those are the targets set by the board for the Hibs managers that are employed and it is by those targets that income targets are achieved.

If we fail to reach those targets it is not because they are unrealistic, it is because the management of the club, be it board level or on the football side, or both, are not competent enough to achieve those reasonable targets. Occasionally, outside influences will be a factor, i.e, an unusually bad run on injuries.

Eyrie
07-04-2013, 10:17 AM
Looking backover my 40-odd years as a Hibs fan, our average league finish has been sixth and in both cups it’s the round before the quarter finals.

I regard that as underperforming because, whilst we do not have the resources of the Ugly Sisters, we are one of the next three biggest clubs together with the Yams and Aberdeen. In any given season a Dundee Utd, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc can be up there challenging us, or we could have a poor season, but over forty-odd years that should average itself out and our greater resources should tell.

So my reasonable expectation is an average league placing of fourth/fifth and a cup semi-final most seasons with a win every decade. I don’t consider that to be a delusion of grandeur.

TornadoHibby
07-04-2013, 10:30 AM
I understand exactly what your saying, what im suggesting is although occasionally we have a good season or two, it may be these that are fleeting moments of 'success', in the sense we are playing abpve our station.
I dont feel that languishing in the bottom half is necessarily where we should be, but if all teams fullfilled their potential, and equalled their most successful times, we would still be somewhere nearer the middle of the table than the top.

I think that it's too easy to skim the surface on an emotional subject like football and come up with some of the stuff that you have posted on here last night and today! :confused:

We have at Hibs, a relatively well funded club (compared to others that it competes with regularly) with excellent infrastructure by way of stadium and training centre, reputedly one of the best in the UK although I have never been out to see it personally. :agree:

Despite that, we seem singularly incapable of using and developing those excellent "building blocks" for success by way of top end SPL league positions and consistent appearances in the latter stages of National Cup competitions leading to the odd Hampden Final win and Euaropean competition qualification. :rolleyes:

That's the principal issue that needs to be addressed and then the reasonable and understandable expectations of the loyal fans for better on the field performances and therefore results (the former usually delivers the latter in the main) are much more likely to be delivered consistently. :confused:

This not about some poor, sad old misty eyed guys who saw one or more of the better known Hibs teams winning "the odd thing" now and then bumping their gums about wanting a "return to the old Glory Days" as you have described in albeit in your own words in an earlier post. :rolleyes:

Those of us who refer to "better days" are more than aware of what actually happened in those days as WE WERE ACTUALLY THERE! We don't need to be told about the history by folk that have to look it up on Wikipedia! :confused:

However, we do know that the current set up at Hibs is capable of delivering much better teams and performances and must start to do so before people will get fed up watching terrible "football" and go spend their hard earned cash on something else that makes them feel better than leaving a current Hibs match at FT have seen the team play poorly yet again and lose to a much less well structured and funded club than Hibs are! :agree:

That is all! :confused:

chinaman
07-04-2013, 10:35 AM
:greengrin

That is kinda what i mean. Are we a bit like the folk on xfactor who cant sing, then go mental at the judges when they get told they're not very good? you actually watch that sxxxe ?

DH1875
07-04-2013, 12:43 PM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter. Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation. I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade? I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm. I think it's this kinda talk and dare I say it, this kinda attitude that is killing our club. For to long there seems to be an acceptance from a section of our support, board and even players for us to struggle and lose games. For years now there's been a losing mentality around the club and I for one think it stinks. Should we be winning the SPL , Champions league and playing like Spain? of course not. We should however have enough about us to challange for a high up league place in a league that doesn't contain rangers and a yams club that is about to impload. At the very least we should be competing and challenging the likes of ICT, Ross County, St Johnstone and Motherwell. AND at the very very least there should be a product on the park that is watchable and 11 players who give a dam about wether they win or not. What is wrong with Hibernian FC??? we don't have anywhere near enough fans WHO DO suffer illusions of grandeur.

HUTCHYHIBBY
07-04-2013, 12:57 PM
I think it's this kinda talk and dare I say it, this kinda attitude that is killing our club. For to long there seems to be an acceptance from a section of our support, board and even players for us to struggle and lose games. For years now there's been a losing mentality around the club and I for one think it stinks. Should we be winning the SPL , Champions league and playing like Spain? of course not. We should however have enough about us to challange for a high up league place in a league that doesn't contain rangers and a yams club that is about to impload. At the very least we should be competing and challenging the likes of ICT, Ross County, St Johnstone and Motherwell. AND at the very very least there should be a product on the park that is watchable and 11 players who give a dam about wether they win or not. What is wrong with Hibernian FC??? we don't have anywhere near enough fans WHO DO suffer illusions of grandeur.

Couldnae agree more. :top marks

Bobby's Cinema
07-04-2013, 01:04 PM
what a silly thread title

Keith_M
07-04-2013, 01:05 PM
......................

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.


Haven't you just answered your own question in that part?




Anyway, I consider Hibs to be one of the great under achievers. Settling for mediocrity, or even lower, just because we've under achieved so often is not good logic.

We're from a city with a greater urban population of 600k and two teams. This is comparable to the likes of Sunderland/Newcastle or Everton/Liverpool. Yet, the average attendances of our clubs is about a third of those other examples. Even with that, we regularly finish below clubs with much less resources.

Why shouldn't we start demanding better?

Hibby Bairn
07-04-2013, 01:35 PM
After watching Hibs for 35 years and having had a season ticket for the past 17 I am not going to renew next year and will pick and choose which games I go to. I am going to use some of the money saved out of the £700 (!!!) to go and watch Real Madrid with my two boys.

I sat watching the ICT game and thought to myself.."I am not enjoying this....I just come through habit and because my boys want to go....this football is so boring.....why do we have guys like Deegan and Doyle and why does our youth programme seem to be incapable of developing players that are a higher calibre than League of Ireland players?...Why do we accept that we develop youth players who are only good enough for SPL standards?....why can't we raise the bar and develop players good enough for EPL level?

The football we play is mediocre pash. Absolutely honking at times. Our young players don't seem to be good enough to play at SPL level. We simply do not raise the bar high enough..our aims are too low...and therefore we end up getting what we deserve....bottom 6 pash which I have absolutely no interest in watching.

What happened to our "upward spiral"? It is an absolute disgrace that Wotherspoon, Hanlon, Harris, Handling, Caldwell, Stanton and others have not been developed to a level that takes us into top 6 and challenging for 2nd spot. Instead we get Clancy, Deegan, Doyle, Done plus a whole host of loanees. Meanwhile our young players warm the bench or end up playing in the second division. What is going on? It has been like this for about 5 years at least.

NorthNorfolkHFC
07-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Fair point.

Unfortunately cultural changes in Scotland have affected Hibs. Young players 'expect' wages, lifestyle and adulation.

Our drinking culture does not help at all either where we cannot drink in moderation but in absolute excess. Not many other countries drink like this and alcohol is one of the biggest hindrances to player development. Our cuisine is buggered as well where even when we que for petrol we have shelves and shelves of sweets and crisps.

Our young players grow up with no real role models and are not encouraged to respect their elders, cleaning boots, tidying up changing rooms etc. Moreover the older players at most clubs are no more mature than some of the younger players.

jdships
07-04-2013, 02:45 PM
I get the impression reading some of the other threads that there is an expectation that we should be at the top of the league each year and in the semi finals etc, and when we dont achieve this there is a witch hunt to find out who is to blame for the lack of sexy and successful football akin to the Spanish national team. It got me thinking that in lifetime we have been a distinctly average side, with a few highs, but on the most part lows. Apart from a couple of years when Mowbray was here, another couple with McLeish, and the cup win with Miller, there has not been a great deal to shout about as a Hibs supporter.
Since the 2007 cup win, there has been little to excite the Hibs support, and the 'flair' football that we are so well known for seems to be somewhat lacking. The SPL began in 98-99, and since then we have finished the season 3rd twice with the last time in 04/05, and 4th only twice, which suggests to me after 13 seasons, were not that great. From what I can see, we have actually finished 6th or worse for the majority of our time in the SPL, not forgetting that we missed the first season due to relegation.

I am interested to see what reasons/evidence - other than distorted memories of the 'great' hibs teams who could have beaten anyone - there is to suggest that we are not just a mid-table scrapper on a par with the likes of Killie, Motherwell, St Jonstone etc, and a team that can expect nothing more than a cup win every decade or so, and a trip to Europe a couple of times in a decade?

I must make clear that I'm not happy with the current/perpetual situation, and fell that as a club, we probably should be achieveing more than a bottom 6/mid-table finish given the potential size of the fan base, but what I am asking is, are we actually a bit deluded as a bunch of fans, and should we be a bit more realistic with our expectations, giiven the evidence seems to suggest doing well is a break from the norm.



Having played pro football ,albeit for only a short time , and supported Hibs since I was eight years old ( 73 yeqrs ago) if you don't have expectations , aspirations , what ever you want to call it , what is the point of playing or supporting ?
Without that competitive edge sport is nothing .
Every season I played I wished/ hoped that we would get something out of that year
Same applies with following Hibs - ' amybe this will be our year'

:greengrin:flag:

Keith_M
07-04-2013, 02:47 PM
what a silly thread title


I think the OP has 'delusions' of adequacy :wink:

Jack
07-04-2013, 03:14 PM
In this league we have the second most expensive squad.

In years gone by we have been third or fourth depending who your discussing it with.

Seems fair given these simple stats that Hibs should expect to be in the top six every year and have a wee trip to Hampden each year.

Seems a fair expectation from the support as far as I can see.

Mikey
07-04-2013, 03:26 PM
After watching Hibs for 35 years and having had a season ticket for the past 17 I am not going to renew next year and will pick and choose which games I go to. I am going to use some of the money saved out of the £700 (!!!) to go and watch Real Madrid with my two boys.



Denying the club money isn't going to help the situation, in fact it'll do exactly the opposite.

And Real Madrid don't need the money, their dodgy local council look after them :greengrin

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 03:32 PM
Genuinely apologise for coming across as a smart arse, it was a stupid time for me to post coming in from a big night out and still smarting from a horrible day which started with watching the jammy sparryheids comeback, seeing the outsider that I mulled over, (but obviously didnt back) in the National, romp home (80/1 at the time) then good old Hibs finishing me off, I was just a moany old drunk when I replied to your post. Again, sorry mate.

However, I still do think for the most part Hibs supporters do not have high expectations, but do deserve much, much more than the non-combative and non-entertaining dross we have been served up these last few years.


Thanks for your apologies mate. I was feeling particulary defensive myself last night, and down right frustrated at how poor we are.

I am in agreeance with most of the posters, including yourself, that we should expect better than bottom half tables, but i was trying to be a little mischievious and play devils advocate to stir up we debate, in response to the constant stf/petrie/fenlon at fault threads.

There have been a good few points raised, and in general i agree that we should be performing at a higher standard than we have of late, but i do feel that there are some on here whos posts give the impression they thinks hibs should be finishing 3rd each season and winning cups all the time. As much as would love this, i dont believe it to be a realistic expectation.

:rolleyes:

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 03:35 PM
what a silly thread title

what a silly post

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 03:48 PM
I think that it's too easy to skim the surface on an emotional subject like football and come up with some of the stuff that you have posted on here last night and today! :confused:

We have at Hibs, a relatively well funded club (compared to others that it competes with regularly) with excellent infrastructure by way of stadium and training centre, reputedly one of the best in the UK although I have never been out to see it personally. :agree:

Despite that, we seem singularly incapable of using and developing those excellent "building blocks" for success by way of top end SPL league positions and consistent appearances in the latter stages of National Cup competitions leading to the odd Hampden Final win and Euaropean competition qualification. :rolleyes:

That's the principal issue that needs to be addressed and then the reasonable and understandable expectations of the loyal fans for better on the field performances and therefore results (the former usually delivers the latter in the main) are much more likely to be delivered consistently. :confused:

This not about some poor, sad old misty eyed guys who saw one or more of the better known Hibs teams winning "the odd thing" now and then bumping their gums about wanting a "return to the old Glory Days" as you have described in albeit in your own words in an earlier post. :rolleyes:

Those of us who refer to "better days" are more than aware of what actually happened in those days as WE WERE ACTUALLY THERE! We don't need to be told about the history by folk that have to look it up on Wikipedia! :confused:

However, we do know that the current set up at Hibs is capable of delivering much better teams and performances and must start to do so before people will get fed up watching terrible "football" and go spend their hard earned cash on something else that makes them feel better than leaving a current Hibs match at FT have seen the team play poorly yet again and lose to a much less well structured and funded club than Hibs are! :agree:

That is all! :confused:


Agreed, but at who's door should the blame lay? STF, Petrie, Fenlon, coaches,players, fans? The OP was really in response to the number of comments on here calling for change every 5 minutes, and looking to blame someone for our shortcomings. Could it be that the constant chopping and changing of managment, new players etc, has an adverse effect on the club as a whole? Should we stop moaning for a minute and be a bit more realistic, and instead of being short sighted, set ourself more long-term achievable goals such as 5 years time having x players from EM in our first team or playing for scotland etc etc. i feel proud of hibs when i look back at some of the talent we have produced in recent times, whittaker/brown/thompson/occonner/riorden. if we could replicate that on a regular basis, for me that would be success, cos i think its wholly unrealistic to attempt replicate teams from the ancient past, when the whole dynamics of Scottish football have changed since then, i.e OF dominance.

blackpoolhibs
07-04-2013, 03:50 PM
what a silly post

It is a silly title, wake up and smell the tea.

Stringer
07-04-2013, 03:51 PM
Hibs have produced good international players, thats why we should be competing for the top 6 of the SPL.

Right now S.Fletcher leads the line for Scotland. In a couple of years it will be Leigh Griffiths.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Looking backover my 40-odd years as a Hibs fan, our average league finish has been sixth and in both cups it’s the round before the quarter finals.

I regard that as underperforming because, whilst we do not have the resources of the Ugly Sisters, we are one of the next three biggest clubs together with the Yams and Aberdeen. In any given season a Dundee Utd, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc can be up there challenging us, or we could have a poor season, but over forty-odd years that should average itself out and our greater resources should tell.

So my reasonable expectation is an average league placing of fourth/fifth and a cup semi-final most seasons with a win every decade. I don’t consider that to be a delusion of grandeur.


Spot on mate, and summed up the point i was trying to make. But really, who cares - apart from a few extra ££'s - if we finish 4th/5th/6th/7th/8th, hardly anything to shout about when we make the top of that pile, and similarly when we finish 7th/8th, are we really that bothered? Should we not accept our station in life and try to concentrate our efforts on developing players and a fan base as opposed to harassing employees of the club for their lack of (unrealistic) success?

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 04:07 PM
It is a silly title, wake up and smell the tea.

:greengrin

i realise the mistake in the thread title, but dont know how to change it. just not sure whats the point in comments like 'what a silly thread title', if its not for you...dont read it, let alone make pointless comments.

blackpoolhibs
07-04-2013, 04:24 PM
:greengrin

i realise the mistake in the thread title, but dont know how to change it. just not sure whats the point in comments like 'what a silly thread title', if its not for you...dont read it, let alone make pointless comments.

I dont think you can change it. :greengrin

Mikey
07-04-2013, 04:27 PM
I dont think you can change it. :greengrin

Done.

Better? :greengrin

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 04:31 PM
Done.

Better? :greengrin


Why thank you sir. Next time il refrain from starting a thread after midnight when under the influence!!

marinello59
07-04-2013, 04:32 PM
Done.

Better? :greengrin

Nope.
Now it's better.:greengrin

Keith_M
07-04-2013, 04:36 PM
:greengrin

i realise the mistake in the thread title, but dont know how to change it. just not sure whats the point in comments like 'what a silly thread title', if its not for you...dont read it, let alone make pointless comments.


Just for your Info.


If you go to the original post and click the 'Edit Post' button, you'll see the Edit Section. If you then select 'Advanced', you have the option of, among other things, changing the title.


Give it a try.

beensaidbefore
07-04-2013, 04:40 PM
Just for your Info.


If you go to the original post and click the 'Edit Post' button, you'll see the Edit Section. If you then select 'Advanced', you have the option of, among other things, changing the title.


Give it a try.

ah, I did try, but it was late last night, hence the lack of success. Hopefully wont make a similar mistake in the future, but cheers in case i do.:aok:

Feed McGraw
07-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Thanks for your apologies mate. I was feeling particulary defensive myself last night, and down right frustrated at how poor we are.

I am in agreeance with most of the posters, including yourself, that we should expect better than bottom half tables, but i was trying to be a little mischievious and play devils advocate to stir up we debate, in response to the constant stf/petrie/fenlon at fault threads.

There have been a good few points raised, and in general i agree that we should be performing at a higher standard than we have of late, but i do feel that there are some on here whos posts give the impression they thinks hibs should be finishing 3rd each season and winning cups all the time. As much as would love this, i dont believe it to be a realistic expectation.

:rolleyes:

Cheers mate, lets hope we win the cup, coz no matter what anyones expectations are, its what all us Hibbies dream about. :thumbsup:

marinello59
07-04-2013, 04:42 PM
ah, I did try, but it was late last night, hence the lack of success. Hopefully wont make a similar mistake in the future, but cheers in case i do.:aok:

I actually preferred your version of it.

TornadoHibby
07-04-2013, 06:05 PM
Agreed, but at who's door should the blame lay? STF, Petrie, Fenlon, coaches,players, fans? The OP was really in response to the number of comments on here calling for change every 5 minutes, and looking to blame someone for our shortcomings. Could it be that the constant chopping and changing of managment, new players etc, has an adverse effect on the club as a whole? Should we stop moaning for a minute and be a bit more realistic, and instead of being short sighted, set ourself more long-term achievable goals such as 5 years time having x players from EM in our first team or playing for scotland etc etc. i feel proud of hibs when i look back at some of the talent we have produced in recent times, whittaker/brown/thompson/occonner/riorden. if we could replicate that on a regular basis, for me that would be success, cos i think its wholly unrealistic to attempt replicate teams from the ancient past, when the whole dynamics of Scottish football have changed since then, i.e OF dominance.

Who is saying that should be done? :confused:

The bottom line in any business is that the buck stops with the Board and then usually with the CEO unless, of course, he also owns the business! :wink:

Draw your own conclusions regarding that as far as Hibs are concerned. :agree:

However, as I've already said at length in previous posts, we are not bringing forward young players, mature enough to compete in the first team at top end SPL level, from East Mains even if we did have the experienced, quality pros such as KT in place in key positions through the spine of the team to complement the kids energy and lack of fear in playing the game to win matches. :confused:

That to me is what is the really worrying issue right now, followed up very closely by the inability of the "HR (manager selection and employment) Committee" to actually pick guys who can do the job copmpetently and without fear of failure as that restricts the mind set of those that suffer from it in seeing new ideas and solutions to problems whether tactical or with players or coaching and training. :confused:

If regular match attenders don't get an improved product on the pitch week in week out, I personally believe that a large number of the current batch will follow those that have already decided to do something else on matchdays rather than watch Hibs. If that happens then cash for the playing squad will become even scarcer meaning almost inevitably that the quality of the team and squad will diminish further perpetuating a perpetual downward spiral of performance level! :confused:

That would be tragic! :confused:

Bobby's Cinema
07-04-2013, 06:56 PM
Thanks for your apologies mate. I was feeling particulary defensive myself last night, and down right frustrated at how poor we are.

I am in agreeance with most of the posters, including yourself, that we should expect better than bottom half tables, but i was trying to be a little mischievious and play devils advocate to stir up we debate, in response to the constant stf/petrie/fenlon at fault threads.

There have been a good few points raised, and in general i agree that we should be performing at a higher standard than we have of late, but i do feel that there are some on here whos posts give the impression they thinks hibs should be finishing 3rd each season and winning cups all the time. As much as would love this, i dont believe it to be a realistic expectation.

:rolleyes:
This is absolutely fair enough.

How has the thread title caused so much of a furor :greengrin

You're earlier post, talking of how Hibs should be looking at the longer term, 5 year plan etc. I think that is the frustration. We have not kicked on.

For me the turn around in the playing squad is the biggest part of Hibs continual struggle. When you look at teams like Motherwell, Hearts, Dundee Utd. The group of players largely remains the same one year to the next. And Hibs have just not had that, and will find the same scenario once again this summer.

I think we have probably all blamed everyone over the past few years. Some even try to blame the fans :rolleyes:. But when managers change, players change and the same problems remain. Perhaps there only one place you can look.

jdships
07-04-2013, 07:08 PM
I remember having a good old chat with STF when he took over the reigns at ER
He stressed the point that with Petrie and others he wanted to put in place a business plan to rid the club of debt while improving the facilities
This plan has worked quite well but surely now it is time to formulate another ' Business Plan' to improve the clubs performances on the pitch .
We owe a great debt of gratitude to STF over his handling of financial affairs BUT as far as supporters are concerned there is ' no use having a candle if you haven't got a match to light it '

:confused:

Eyrie
07-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Spot on mate, and summed up the point i was trying to make. But really, who cares - apart from a few extra ££'s - if we finish 4th/5th/6th/7th/8th, hardly anything to shout about when we make the top of that pile, and similarly when we finish 7th/8th, are we really that bothered? Should we not accept our station in life and try to concentrate our efforts on developing players and a fan base as opposed to harassing employees of the club for their lack of (unrealistic) success?

But we haven’t even achieved that realistic success, being a spot lower than we should be in the league and almost two rounds worse off in the cups, with only three trophies.

I have realistic expectations for the long term averages, but that doesn’t stop me wanting to outperform those targets every season by winning both cups and splitting the Ugly Sisters in the league. Not quite daft enough though to think we can finish ahead of both of them!

NAE NOOKIE
07-04-2013, 08:02 PM
I remember having a good old chat with STF when he took over the reigns at ER
He stressed the point that with Petrie and others he wanted to put in place a business plan to rid the club of debt while improving the facilities
This plan has worked quite well but surely now it is time to formulate another ' Business Plan' to improve the clubs performances on the pitch .
We owe a great debt of gratitude to STF over his handling of financial affairs BUT as far as supporters are concerned there is ' no use having a candle if you haven't got a match to light it '

:confused:

Bang on ..... its as simple as this.

For all that STF has an outstanding grasp of social responsibility and obvious affinity for the community he came from, he is not a football fan and has said so himself in the past. In view of that he can never understand the let down fans of the club feel by being fed a constant diet of mediocrity and failure.

Our constant inability to feature in the business end of the season hurts the fans and leads to a fall in crowds and therefore less money for the club.

Forgetting the emotional side of things STF is a business man and in any business you have to look at what the aim of the business is and what is required to maximize income and customer satisfaction.

The aim of Hibernian FC is to win football matches and as a result maximize league position and hopefully win cups, qualify for Europe and attract more people through the gate. That is the business we are in.

As owner of this business STF must take a look at himself and ask if he has done a good job. If Kwik Fit had had the best garages in every town in the UK but nobody was buying tyres or exhausts because ATS were offering better service and longer guarantees on their products and their staff were of a better quality than his, would he have found that acceptable? ... no chance. He would have worked day and night to ensure that Kwik Fit were doing everything possible to be the best and make the most money.

He built Kwik Fit into such a good business that he was able to sell it for 400 million pounds ... that from one garage in the 70s I think it was. His passion for that business was without question, but he still found it in his heart to sell it when the right offer came up.

Whats up with Hibernian Sir Tom? Why in over 20 years have you been unable to find an ethical buyer willing to take the club forward? Under your tenure we have built a super stadium and a great training ground ( hats off ) but the measure of a football club is what it does on the park and that doesnt paint such a pretty picture ...... we have stagnated .... we have sold a golden generation for millions, but we have failed to invest enough of that money in replacements of even acceptable quality and the results of that are plain to see.

Is year on year mediocrity on the park acceptable for this club and its supporters? ...... unfortunately we appear to have an owner who thinks it is.

rcarter1
07-04-2013, 08:09 PM
Regards expectations, Up to and Including the Turnbull tornados, post war performances and thus expectations was very high.
Since then performances have been patchy indeed, continuity has been difficult to achieve. Reason perhaps being mainly that good players are always going on to 'bigger and better things'.

The following is a breakdown of Hibs LEAGUE performances using a simplistic happy/marginal/unhappy ranking system.

Ive assumed that TOP 5 = Happy, Middle third = Marginal, Bottom Third = Unhappy. Ive ignored the Cups.

All seasons Post 1947

HAPPY = 47%
MARGINAL = 30%
UNHAPPY = 23%

1947 to 1977 'The Glory Years'

HAPPY = 63%
MARGINAL = 27%
UNHAPPY = 10%

1978 to 2012 -- 'The Yo Yo Years'

HAPPY = 33.3%
MARGINAL = 33.3%
UNHAPPY = 33.3%

Even judging by the lowered expectations of the recent era, should we finish this season 9th or worse we will have finished in an UNHAPPY place for three years running. The 'odds' of that happening assuming we are in the Yo Yo Years level of performance, are 26 to 1.

Are we about to embark on a new - even lower level - of expectation? Hope not.

Glory Lurker
07-04-2013, 08:12 PM
Even judging by the lowered expectations of the recent era, should we finish this season 9th or worse we will have finished in an UNHAPPY place for three years running. The 'odds' of that happening assuming we are in the Yo Yo Years level of performance, are 26 to 1.

This is beyond my arithmetical abilities, but otherwise I congratulate you on a most entertaining post!:top marks

Cabbage East
07-04-2013, 08:20 PM
Regards expectations, Up to and Including the Turnbull tornados, post war performances and thus expectations was very high.
Since then performances have been patchy indeed, continuity has been difficult to achieve. Reason perhaps being mainly that good players are always going on to 'bigger and better things'.

The following is a breakdown of Hibs LEAGUE performances using a simplistic happy/marginal/unhappy ranking system.

Ive assumed that TOP 5 = Happy, Middle third = Marginal, Bottom Third = Unhappy. Ive ignored the Cups.

All seasons Post 1947

HAPPY = 47%
MARGINAL = 30%
UNHAPPY = 23%

1947 to 1977 'The Glory Years'

HAPPY = 63%
MARGINAL = 27%
UNHAPPY = 10%

1978 to 2012 -- 'The Yo Yo Years'

HAPPY = 33.3%
MARGINAL = 33.3%
UNHAPPY = 33.3%

Even judging by the lowered expectations of the recent era, should we finish this season 9th or worse we will have finished in an UNHAPPY place for three years running. The 'odds' of that happening assuming we are in the Yo Yo Years level of performance, are 26 to 1.

Are we about to embark on a new - even lower level - of expectation? Hope not.

Wow :faf: