Fenlon (Merged post Celtic threads)

[hibeesjoe]

If Fenlon doesn't win the cup this season will he have a job after the summer? No improvement since that drubbing last may, bottom 6 and the worst hearts team in years are only 3 points behind us. Terrible

[AL-Qaholik]

Personally, I'm hoping he wins is the cup then resigns "in a blaze of glory" - the cup run has papered over the gaping cracks as far as some are concerned...

[CallumLaidlaw]

Still think he needs the first 3 months of the new season. With Liam Craig coming in, it will be interesting to see who else comes in.

[Hainan Hibs]

Would give him next season unless the beginning of the season is Calderwood-esque.

[Vault Boy]

Would give him next season unless the beginning of the season is Calderwood-esque.

:agree:

[Bobo]

Hopefully he won't be here, clueless clown's had long enough to convince me that he's not got what it takes.

Dreadful standard of football and tactically inept, he's grossly underachieved in a very poor SPL.

[J-C]

For me it's a no, we've seen the rot kick in again and he looks clueless as to how to end it, negative tactics and in a season with a poor Hearts team and without Gers, we'll be lucky to not finish 10/11th.

[dutchhibby]

get someone in as soon as the season ends
so any new manager can get a full pre season and transfew window

[hibeesjoe]

I really hope he can turn it around. Massive summer for Fenlon though if he is still here. Getting too at least the final and a few post split wins would be a start.

[TAHibby]

Should be given till January at least for me to show why he should be the manager of this football club. If there is genuinely nothing to show from hopefully some good business in the summer and half of next season then don't think he should still be in charge.

[Stringer]

Personally, I'm hoping he wins is the cup then resigns "in a blaze of glory" - the cup run has papered over the gaping cracks as far as some are concerned...


This is the mentality. Pat picks the wrong team week in week out. He lost to QofS in the league cup, FFS!

I don't trust him to raise the confidence level for the cup game! If we lose the Falkirk game - Fenlon out.

We need someone to pick the right players, picking deegan is shocking. The players need the hair dryer treatment after a poor performance.

[East Coast Hibe]

Last 2 games were must win and he set up the team for damage limitation.
Im sorry but I think his time is up !

[down-the-slope]

while i would rather be in top 6 - maybe it will give the opportunity to plan for next season / blood more youngsters like Harris?

The down side is a loss of income from central revenues and bigger gates (Us ST holders getting only 1 of the original potential 4 free tickets for home cat A games) to help the ongoing rebuilding. If we were to suffer a loss next week we will see gates plummet to 6/7 k

Ironically next weeks game is probably more important than last years semi as expectation has been lifted only to get a large smack in the knackers

[famous_fife_hibby]

If Fenlon doesn't win the cup this season will he have a job after the summer? No improvement since that drubbing last may, bottom 6 and the worst hearts team in years are only 3 points behind us. Terrible
Why blame the manager? The problems go far higher than that. Other clubs, paying the same kind of wages can still attract better players. We are supposed to have the best facilities in the country, but we still can't attract players. There must be a reason for that.

[Beefster]

Why blame the manager? The problems go far higher than that. Other clubs, paying the same kind of wages can still attract better players. We are supposed to have the best facilities in the country, but we still can't attract players. There must be a reason for that.

What players can't we attract that others can? I don't think it's attracting players that is the problem, it's attracting the right players. That's the manager's job.

[Hibee87]

its obvious we have been picking the wrong managers in the last 5 - 6 years. However it s also obvious we have sacked some too quickly.

Fenlon has been given time, and I think he will get more time. He has IMO until Christmas this year to show why he should be boss.


what I would love to know is what happens to payers at hibs? I mean why do we have so many players who at first seem to be good signings then they turn terrible :confused:

mcpake, has been pretty poor for months. used to be a rock and fire the team up. now he seems uninterested.

Deggan - great start to the season, the hardman in the middle we had cried for for years. now nothing...

mcgivern - looked a great player in his first few games, now he blows hot and cold.....mostly cold.

doyle - him and leigh were clicking at the start, now he struggles to get a game.

the worst thing about it all is why the players cant do the basics, passing, crossing, throw ins. shooting.

Hibs need a proper clear out, and I mean proper in the summer. Fenlon has A LOT of work to do.

[hibee19]

We're never going to win every game but you can take the defeats when you try to win games rather than no lose and show some fight. There have been some games (St Johnstone, Motherwell, Celtic today, Dundee, SC Final) where we just show no fight and accept defeat.

For us to prosper we need to look to bring through our youth players to sell them on, we need to play watchable football to bring the crowds in and we need to be very clever with the transfer market. I've not seen signs that Fenlon will deliver any of this.

I know it takes time to build a good team but I've not seen very much at all that suggests Pat is the man to take us where we want to be.

My biggest concern would be given recent managerial appointments what makes anyone think the next manager could be any more successful than Fenlon.

[IberianHibernian]

Why blame the manager? The problems go far higher than that. Other clubs, paying the same kind of wages can still attract better players. We are supposed to have the best facilities in the country, but we still can't attract players. There must be a reason for that.I agree with this . Fenlon inherited a poor squad and I don`t think it`s much better now if at all . Fenlon must take some of the blame for signings but has he had enough backing financially to make good signings ? Many will say" but Motherwell etc with less money...." but I`d imagine we have to pay players more as it costs more to live in Edinburgh than towns outside Edinburgh or Glasgow . Is scouting network strong enough ? Are others in club doing enough to encourage players to join us ? Before Christmas we got good results until we got a few injuries ( Deegan , Clancy , McPake ..have all struggled since injuries too ) which was hardly surprising given lack of choices on bench - so weak squad in terms of quality and quantity .

[stoneyburn hibs]

Got to be given at least one more season, canny keep going through managers.

[Weir7]

Coming back from Parkhead watching other gutless spinless performance.

Must win game. Hardly a shot on goal. 10 men behind ball.

And then listening to his usual pish on the radio.

Hats of to the 3 or 400 fans for going. Can't believe there wasn't more of these punters there that think fenlon doing a good job.

[Beefster]

Got to be given at least one more season, canny keep going through managers.

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?

"Keep Fenlon because he's the latest in a line of mince managers"

[Pretty Boy]

What worries me is if we start next season like we are ending this we could be well adrift after the 1st round of games. What then? Another manager brought in in poor circumstances.

We change manager too often but Fenlon is the wrong man and sticking with him for the sake of continuity is stupid. Make a decision in the summer and personally I now hope he goes.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Coming back from Parkhead watching other gutless spinless performance.

Must win game. Hardly a shot on goal. 10 men behind ball.

And then listening to his usual pish on the radio.

Hats of to the 3 or 400 fans for going. Can't believe there wasn't more of these punters there that think fenlon doing a good job.

Aye sack our manager a week before our biggest game of the season.

[hibeesjoe]

I seen Kuqi was strolling around ocean terminal earlier so there's one wage that has been absolutely wasted

[scuttle]

Hes had a season and a half now and really no improvement . Faces another rebuild in the summer and if we loose next week I think enough is enough. I can take getting beat if we are having a go at teams but he is far too negative and hasnt changed tactics from 451 after it worked once against Celtic When we loose Sparky ,Claros , Mcgivern etc for next season I can see us struggling at the start and I think hell get the bums rush anyway

[Billychaotic182]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it!

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?

"Keep Fenlon because he's the latest in a line of mince managers"

Another season to prove he is not mince then.

[madabouthibs]

I think our next big wage packet should be blown on a decent manager. A manager with a bit of anger, aggression, one that suffers no fool. Our managers have been far to fluffy and nice these last few decades, we need a hardman that'll accept no crap. A highly respected, almost feared character. A cup thrower. Far too many slackers in our squad, they don't give a toss.

[TomoHFC]

We lose to Falkirk next week he can just **** off. I hink we have giving him enough chances to turn our team around

[The Voice Of Reason]

I seen Kuqi was strolling around ocean terminal earlier so there's one wage that has been absolutely wasted

No - that was him running !!!!

[Emerald]

I seen Kuqi was strolling around ocean terminal earlier so there's one wage that has been absolutely wasted

That is a disgrace. Has he never been to Livingston, much better?

[alexhibs]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it!

Whenever we lose lol?

[lord bunberry]

If we lose next week I think he will be lucky to be in a job after the end of the season. If we win then he will probably be allowed to continue for the first part of next season

[hibeesjoe]

No - that was him running !!!!

Well he never done any swan dives. I've still too see him do one of those trademark moves

[Feed McGraw]

Got to be given at least one more season, canny keep going through managers.

Oh yes you can, if they keep failing. Having said that, I think the focus should now be on the people making these appointments.

[hibeesjoe]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it!

We are rubbish and going in the wrong direction. I'm not trying to start a get Fenlon out thread but its frustrating. Hopefully Pat and the players can get motivated for next Saturday.

[Jim44]

If we get to the final, I would only keep him if we then win the final or at least put in a really good performance. He is basically too defence minded and hasn't shown nearly enough potential to warrant another season. .

[The Voice Of Reason]

Football is a Results based business - and our results are abysmal (as are our performances).

The buck stops at the manager.

[TornadoHibby]

Personally, I'm hoping he wins is the cup then resigns "in a blaze of glory" - the cup run has papered over the gaping cracks as far as some are concerned...

Don't you agree then? :confused:

The league table doesn't lie as the wise men say!! :agree:

The positive about this season compared to last season is that we are thankfully not in danger of being relegated at this stage! :rolleyes: Big thanks to a very inept Dundee team which still managed to give us a couple of seeing to's! :confused:

[kentao]

I am not one for sacking a manager at every opportunity but the style of football really needs to change. I don't mind getting beat off teams if were going out trying to win the game and entertain the fans but what i cant stand is setting up shop to try and hit poor teams on the counter attack and sneak a result which we are rarely doing.

This 451 has been poor to watch with long punts up to Sparky. We have no creativity or flair in the team and we are relying on a bit of magic from someone mainly Griffiths to get us some goals. We flood the midfield with players but it looks like we are playing with a man down as teams are finding it so easy to pass through us and cut us open with ease.

Either the formation and tactics change or the manager changes Things can not continue like this. We are a completely different team from the one that start the season and the football and results have only got worse.

GGTTH

[Eyrie]

My main concern about Fenlon staying is that he favoured 4-5-1 when in Ireland, which does not augur well for attractive football next season.

[Greenblood70]

What worries me is if we start next season like we are ending this we could be well adrift after the 1st round of games. What then? Another manager brought in in poor circumstances.

We change manager too often but Fenlon is the wrong man and sticking with him for the sake of continuity is stupid. Make a decision in the summer and personally I now hope he goes.

Agree 100% with this.

[At The Edge]

I wasn't at the game, but looking at the stats on the BBC, we had 2 shots, 1 was on target and 1 corner, if Pat can't see that how he is setting the team up isn't getting us results then he needs to get new specs, not great reading at all and if i'm honest its more of the same from the last wee while, eye bleeding, total negative football, I wouldn't have minded getting pumped 3-0 if we had looked like we had went and had a go at Celtic, but by all accounts we set up not to lose, not the best way to get top 6 when a victory was a must.

[ancient hibee]

If we get to the final, I would only keep him if we then win the final or at least put in a really good performance. He is basically too defence minded and hasn't shown nearly enough potential to warrant another season. .


Too defence minded!-no wonder-have you seen the goals against column-and that's with a good keeper.

[The Voice Of Reason]

What worries me is if we start next season like we are ending this we could be well adrift after the 1st round of games. What then? Another manager brought in in poor circumstances.

We change manager too often but Fenlon is the wrong man and sticking with him for the sake of continuity is stupid. Make a decision in the summer and personally I now hope he goes.

Agreed.

[RIP]

Fenlon seems like a nice sincere guy. So was my old boss. He was also bloody hopeless.

One point from his first 15 should have been a warning. So should 11th after signing players in January. The 5-1 after saying no Hibs team of his would be bullied. Queen of the South was a fourth warning. The negative football was warning number FIVE.

We still have an acceptance of mediocrity at corporate level. Managers and players fail here where they succeed elsewhere. Do we have to wait until we are in financial difficulty before we really start to be concerned?

[Emerald]

Fenlon seems like a nice sincere guy. So was my old boss. He was also bloody hopeless.

One point from his first 15 should have been a warning. So should 11th after signing players in January. The 5-1 after saying no Hibs team of his would be bullied. Queen of the South was a fourth warning. The negative football was warning number FIVE.

We still have an acceptance of mediocrity at corporate level. Managers and players fail here where they succeed elsewhere. Do we have to wait until we are in financial difficulty before we really start to be concerned?

Spot on.

[HKhibby]

For me it's a no, we've seen the rot kick in again and he looks clueless as to how to end it, negative tactics and in a season with a poor Hearts team and without Gers, we'll be lucky to not finish 10/11th.

Totally agree, and i live along way from there and only get a glimps of Hibs now and again, i said it when he was appointed he was out of his depth coming from the LOI to the SPL...not that the SPL is fantastic, and at the time i was told i didnt know what i was talking about, well im starting to be proven right now, he hasnt a clue and is negative.
I dont know who could replace him! the obvious choice would be someone like McCall at Motherwell, but he is not going to leave them!

[truehibernian]

My main concern about Fenlon staying is that he favoured 4-5-1 when in Ireland, which does not augur well for attractive football next season.

Not much else he can really do with the players in the squad. We have no, and I mean none, natural wingers - unlike every other SPL club. Hibs have not had a natural winger for a few seasons now (on each flank). Guranteed Leigh will be as frustrated as anyone - but if Fenlon isn't going to give Ross or Danny a real chance up top alongside, I'm sorry mate but it's 4-5-1 for a good time yet.

The players are unfit. I read that Tim had had a wee twitter spat a few games ago with someone and one of his retorts was along the lines of 'i only work 16 hours a week' - if that is the mentality, and it is the mentality of many at Hibs it seems, then what hope have you got of a competitive, consistently good side.

Then you look at the workrate of the youths and to be honest, I don't see anyone in the top team who is way ahead of them bar Leigh, Williams, Thomson and McGivern - the mistakes are basic, the football industrial, the pace non existent - but that's been the same for a few seasons.

If Pat truly wants to succeed, then he needs to inject pace and creativity into the wide areas and midfield - and get a strong, youthful presence up top. If Hibernian Football Club want to evolve from this, then that has to start from the top as I keep saying - Rod Petrie has failed, simple as that. He is at the helm of a club that has failed to deliver consistently good results and football, and much income, fans money, has been used to pay off managers and coaches that he and the Board have hired and have fallen way short.

You can send out as many 'mission statements, sell as many bricks, offer as many offers on seasons as you wish - it's the brand of football a fan buys into and whether or not they see it as value for money and entertaining - at this stage, nobody can argue a Hibs fan is getting either.

From top to toe, good old fashioned work rate and appreciation of where they are needs to be cemented - if players are happy to 'do their 16 hours', then I'm happy to see them leave - as that is a sheer lack of desire, focus, willingness to win and good old fashioned integrity. In in the mornings, and the afternoons - it's that simple. You can work on all areas of fitness, tactics, speed and team bonding if this is the approach taken - sadly not many pros out there seem to want to put that kind of work in (in Scotland).

[silverhibee]

Fenlon seems like a nice sincere guy. So was my old boss. He was also bloody hopeless.

One point from his first 15 should have been a warning. So should 11th after signing players in January. The 5-1 after saying no Hibs team of his would be bullied. Queen of the South was a fourth warning. The negative football was warning number FIVE.

We still have an acceptance of mediocrity at corporate level. Managers and players fail here where they succeed elsewhere. Do we have to wait until we are in financial difficulty before we really start to be concerned?


Chill oot man.

It's just a game of football.

[HKhibby]

Agree 100% with this.

Totally agree, always been the wrong man for the hibs job as far as i am concerned, but who would take the job?, personally i would go for McCall or Butcher, but they are not going to leave Motherwell and ICT to go to Hibs, especially with such a limited budget!

[Treadstone]

I realise that i have taken an arbitrary point here (when we beat Dundee Utd and topped the table) but I would like to know when 'progress' stops being such and better than last year sounds hollow. Here is the league table since that date.




P
W
D
L
F
A
Pts


Celtic
21
15
2
4
56
18
47


Motherwell
20
11
4
5
39
25
37


Inverness CT
20
8
8
4
32
28
32


Ross County
20
8
6
6
27
24
30


Dundee United
21
6
10
5
35
37
28


St Johnstone
20
6
9
5
23
21
27


Kilmarnock
20
5
9
6
27
28
24


St Mirren
20
5
9
6
23
25
24


Heart of Midlothian
20
6
5
9
21
31
23


Aberdeen
20
5
5
10
19
29
20


Hibernian
20
3
7
10
15
30
16


Dundee
20
3
6
11
16
37
15

[Hibby 2005]

Fenlon is negative, of that there's no doubt, but the Hibs players today were thinking of the Cup and not trying to get into the top 6. It's unprofessional and an insult to the supporters who went through to Glasgow.

[blackpoolhibs]

I agree with this . Fenlon inherited a poor squad and I don`t think it`s much better now if at all . Fenlon must take some of the blame for signings but has he had enough backing financially to make good signings ? Many will say" but Motherwell etc with less money...." but I`d imagine we have to pay players more as it costs more to live in Edinburgh than towns outside Edinburgh or Glasgow . Is scouting network strong enough ? Are others in club doing enough to encourage players to join us ? Before Christmas we got good results until we got a few injuries ( Deegan , Clancy , McPake ..have all struggled since injuries too ) which was hardly surprising given lack of choices on bench - so weak squad in terms of quality and quantity .

You don't have to live in Edinburgh if you play for Hibs, drive 30 minutes outside the city and prices will be cheaper. Not everyone who plays for Motherwell lives in Motherwell city centre.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I realise that i have taken an arbitrary point here (when we beat Dundee Utd and topped the table) but I would like to know when 'progress' stops being such and better than last year sounds hollow. Here is the league table since that date.




P
W
D
L
F
A
Pts


Celtic
21
15
2
4
56
18
47


Motherwell
20
11
4
5
39
25
37


Inverness CT
20
8
8
4
32
28
32


Ross County
20
8
6
6
27
24
30


Dundee United
21
6
10
5
35
37
28


St Johnstone
20
6
9
5
23
21
27


Kilmarnock
20
5
9
6
27
28
24


St Mirren
20
5
9
6
23
25
24


Heart of Midlothian
20
6
5
9
21
31
23


Aberdeen
20
5
5
10
19
29
20


Hibernian
20
3
7
10
15
30
16


Dundee
20
3
6
11
16
37
15



Disgrace. Not surprising though as we really have been dreadful for quite some time now.

Pathetic.

[silverhibee]

Not much else he can really do with the players in the squad. We have no, and I mean none, natural wingers - unlike every other SPL club. Hibs have not had a natural winger for a few seasons now (on each flank). Guranteed Leigh will be as frustrated as anyone - but if Fenlon isn't going to give Ross or Danny a real chance up top alongside, I'm sorry mate but it's 4-5-1 for a good time yet.

The players are unfit. I read that Tim had had a wee twitter spat a few games ago with someone and one of his retorts was along the lines of 'i only work 16 hours a week' - if that is the mentality, and it is the mentality of many at Hibs it seems, then what hope have you got of a competitive, consistently good side.

Then you look at the workrate of the youths and to be honest, I don't see anyone in the top team who is way ahead of them bar Leigh, Williams, Thomson and McGivern - the mistakes are basic, the football industrial, the pace non existent - but that's been the same for a few seasons.

If Pat truly wants to succeed, then he needs to inject pace and creativity into the wide areas and midfield - and get a strong, youthful presence up top. If Hibernian Football Club want to evolve from this, then that has to start from the top as I keep saying - Rod Petrie has failed, simple as that. He is at the helm of a club that has failed to deliver consistently good results and football, and much income, fans money, has been used to pay off managers and coaches that he and the Board have hired and have fallen way short.

You can send out as many 'mission statements, sell as many bricks, offer as many offers on seasons as you wish - it's the brand of football a fan buys into and whether or not they see it as value for money and entertaining - at this stage, nobody can argue a Hibs fan is getting either.

From top to toe, good old fashioned work rate and appreciation of where they are needs to be cemented - if players are happy to 'do their 16 hours', then I'm happy to see them leave - as that is a sheer lack of desire, focus, willingness to win and good old fashioned integrity. In in the mornings, and the afternoons - it's that simple. You can work on all areas of fitness, tactics, speed and team bonding if this is the approach taken - sadly not many pros out there seem to want to put that kind of work in (in Scotland).


Pat & LOBs time will be up at Hibs at the end of May TH.

And there will be no chance of retaining players like Leigh (looked very frustrated upfront on his own today) Thomson McGivern and Claros for next season, once again we are in a f***ing mess.

[TornadoHibby]

I realise that i have taken an arbitrary point here (when we beat Dundee Utd and topped the table) but I would like to know when 'progress' stops being such and better than last year sounds hollow. Here is the league table since that date.




P
W
D
L
F
A
Pts


Celtic
21
15
2
4
56
18
47


Motherwell
20
11
4
5
39
25
37


Inverness CT
20
8
8
4
32
28
32


Ross County
20
8
6
6
27
24
30


Dundee United
21
6
10
5
35
37
28


St Johnstone
20
6
9
5
23
21
27


Kilmarnock
20
5
9
6
27
28
24


St Mirren
20
5
9
6
23
25
24


Heart of Midlothian
20
6
5
9
21
31
23


Aberdeen
20
5
5
10
19
29
20


Hibernian
20
3
7
10
15
30
16


Dundee
20
3
6
11
16
37
15



No surprise then that there is mounting discontent amongst the regular fans about the quality and style of football on show from Hibs over that period of time at least! :confused:

If people are not enjoying what they pay to watch then they will spend there cash elsewhere IMO!

This is a continuing trend that most reasonable supporters would find unacceptable and I for one will not be renewing my ST after having renewed for next season if next season simply continues as the past few have been! :agree:

[Treadstone]

Disgrace. Not surprising though as we really have been dreadful for quite some time now.

Pathetic.


No surprise then that there is mounting discontent amongst the regular fans about the quality and style of football on show from Hibs over that period of time at least! :confused:

If people are not enjoying what they pay to watch then they will spend there cash elsewhere IMO!

This is a continuing trend that most reasonable supporters would find unacceptable and I for one will not be renewing my ST after having renewed for next season if next season simply continues as the past few have been! :agree:

Worst part of that table is Dundee in any other season would not be in this league.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I realise that i have taken an arbitrary point here (when we beat Dundee Utd and topped the table) but I would like to know when 'progress' stops being such and better than last year sounds hollow. Here is the league table since that date.




P
W
D
L
F
A
Pts


Celtic
21
15
2
4
56
18
47


Motherwell
20
11
4
5
39
25
37


Inverness CT
20
8
8
4
32
28
32


Ross County
20
8
6
6
27
24
30


Dundee United
21
6
10
5
35
37
28


St Johnstone
20
6
9
5
23
21
27


Kilmarnock
20
5
9
6
27
28
24


St Mirren
20
5
9
6
23
25
24


Heart of Midlothian
20
6
5
9
21
31
23


Aberdeen
20
5
5
10
19
29
20


Hibernian
20
3
7
10
15
30
16


Dundee
20
3
6
11
16
37
15



Disgrace. Not surprising though as we really have been dreadful for quite some time now.

Pathetic.

[truehibernian]

Pat & LOBs time will be up at Hibs at the end of May TH.

And there will be no chance of retaining players like Leigh (looked very frustrated upfront on his own today) Thomson McGivern and Claros for next season, once again we are in a f***ing mess.

I don't know SH, I have a feeling we will not want a managerial revolving door this summer - especially if the SPL is to remain as it is for another year.

I'm always always perplexed why managers, not just Pat, play players out of their natural position - you'll know better than anyone re Derek (I still hear Eddie T's words in my ears saying 'play the boy as a striker, he loves scoring goals' :agree::aok:).

Why play Doyle on the flank ? Why play a player like Stevenson at right back this season ? Why play players on the opposite flank to what they are used to ? I often think managers today really end up outsmarting themselves in an ironic way.

At the U20's derby midweek, Hibs played various types of football throughout the 90 - James was quite good at changing little things when required. More importantly he played a very offensive 4-3-3 and really went to the points. I know it's not the same level, but if that's what you are teaching your youths, why then become so utterly defensive in the top side. And in a game where only a win will do, why not play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and really make Celtic work for the win. Just baffling to me.

The January window was what scunnered me SH - showed me just how much Sir Tom and Rod really wanted a top finish in the league - they, just like the players, seem to have accepted that the 'hard work' was done when it seemed sure we were retaining our place in the SPL. Getting Taylor, Craig and Wylde in would have set out a marker and improved the side big time. We didn't and you have to ask the guys at the top why.

Always next week though and I'm hoping to goodness we can get past Falkirk - because we now need cash from a final (and a win would be sublime :greengrin)

[Bobby's Cinema]

The tactics are mince. Leigh upfront on his own fighting for scraps off the long ball.

It feels although EVERY TIME Hibs go away from home, they are happy to create minimal chances and lose 1 or 2 zero.

It's absolute garbage.

Trying to stay reasoned but I tell you what It's very difficult.

[Sanger]

Actually said we did not show up and no effort and had asked them to be adventurous but they were not

[Baldy Foghorn]

The tactics are mince. Leigh upfront on his own fighting for scraps off the long ball.

It feels although EVERY TIME Hibs go away from home, they are happy to create minimal chances and lose 1 or 2 zero.

It's absolute garbage.

Trying to stay reasoned but I tell you what It's very difficult.

It was awful to watch, real lack of heart and desire.......

[Baldy Foghorn]

Actually said we did not show up and no effort and had asked them to be adventurous but they were not

Maybe he is raging, but I bet he is not as raging as the punters who paid £29 to watch as bad a display as I can recall, especially knowing 3 points was the only thing we needed.....Would love to have heard his team talk, pre game and at half-time....

[BoltonHibee]

No surprise then that there is mounting discontent amongst the regular fans about the quality and style of football on show from Hibs over that period of time at least! :confused:

If people are not enjoying what they pay to watch then they will spend there cash elsewhere IMO!

This is a continuing trend that most reasonable supporters would find unacceptable and I for one will not be renewing my ST after having renewed for next season if next season simply continues as the past few have been! :agree:

I'm with you, no ST for me if that clown is still at the helm and I am sure that goes for many others.

Was never the man for the job, crazy appointment!

Yet again Petrie pulls another jobby out of the hat!

[Pretty Boy]

Actually said we did not show up and no effort and had asked them to be adventurous but they were not

It's his job to make sure the players play as he asked them. If they didn't then he is as much to blame as anyone.

It's easy for him to say he's raging today, i'm ****ing raging about the last 3 months. If he constantly sets the team out in a negative manner then he can't expect them just to turn it on all cavalier today.

[Bobby's Cinema]

It's his job to make sure the players play as he asked them. If they didn't then he is as much to blame as anyone.

It's easy for him to say he's raging today, i'm ****ing raging about the last 3 months. If he constantly sets the team out in a negative manner then he can't expect them just to turn it on all cavalier today.
:agree:

Next week, how will we react in a game where the onus is on us to dominate and go and win

[Treadstone]

:agree:

Next week, how will we react in a game where the onus is on us to dominate and go and win

This. We must set off on the front foot starting with team selection.

[Sir David Gray]

If Fenlon goes due to bad results over the next few months then the whole management structure at the club needs scrapped and we need to start again.

The amount of managerial failures we've had in recent years is beyond a joke and there's only so nuch you can take before looking higher up the scale.

As it happens, I'm still sticking by Fenlon. He's only had 1 summer transfer window in which to do business and I believe he deserves at least until the end of 2013.

This summer is a huge window for him.

[jeffers]

Actually said we did not show up and no effort and had asked them to be adventurous but they were not

So according to him it was the players fault not his negative tactics. Deary me. Then again it wasn't his fault either when his substitutions cost us the points when Motherwell beat us 3-2 at Easter Road.

[The Voice Of Reason]

If Fenlon goes due to bad results over the next few months then the whole management structure at the club needs scrapped and we need to start again.

The amount of managerial failures we've had in recent years is beyond a joke and there's only so nuch you can take before looking higher up the scale.

As it happens, I'm still sticking by Fenlon. He's only had 1 summer transfer window in which to do business and I believe he deserves at least until the end of 2013.

This summer is a huge window for him.

FH - I normally agree with you mate, but what have you seen from Fenlon that warrants your support?

His tactics are grim, he doesn't seem to have an eye for a player (Kuqi, kujabi, Deegan) and the bottom line is that HIS team are going down quicker than a prostitutes pants...........had it not been for Dundee we would be in another relegation dogfight!

It is a results based business and the results (and performances) are dreadful. :boo hoo:

[Beefster]

Actually said we did not show up and no effort and had asked them to be adventurous but they were not

To be honest, post-match Fenlon either says that we played well and were unlucky or blames the players. Today wasn't going to be any different.

[Braids Hibby]

Next week when we defeat Falkirk will shut a lot if you doom mongers up. In Pat we trust.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Next week when we defeat Falkirk will shut a lot if you doom mongers up. In Pat we trust.

#allisbarry

[Bobby's Cinema]

Next week when we defeat Falkirk will shut a lot if you doom mongers up. In Pat we trust.
:ostrich:

[Braids Hibby]

#allisbarry

Nope we need to focus on a huge game next week and do what we do best giving the team our great backing

[silverhibee]

I don't know SH, I have a feeling we will not want a managerial revolving door this summer - especially if the SPL is to remain as it is for another year.

I'm always always perplexed why managers, not just Pat, play players out of their natural position - you'll know better than anyone re Derek (I still hear Eddie T's words in my ears saying 'play the boy as a striker, he loves scoring goals' :agree::aok:).

Why play Doyle on the flank ? Why play a player like Stevenson at right back this season ? Why play players on the opposite flank to what they are used to ? I often think managers today really end up outsmarting themselves in an ironic way.

At the U20's derby midweek, Hibs played various types of football throughout the 90 - James was quite good at changing little things when required. More importantly he played a very offensive 4-3-3 and really went to the points. I know it's not the same level, but if that's what you are teaching your youths, why then become so utterly defensive in the top side. And in a game where only a win will do, why not play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and really make Celtic work for the win. Just baffling to me.

The January window was what scunnered me SH - showed me just how much Sir Tom and Rod really wanted a top finish in the league - they, just like the players, seem to have accepted that the 'hard work' was done when it seemed sure we were retaining our place in the SPL. Getting Taylor, Craig and Wylde in would have set out a marker and improved the side big time. We didn't and you have to ask the guys at the top why.

Always next week though and I'm hoping to goodness we can get past Falkirk - because we now need cash from a final (and a win would be sublime :greengrin)


Only winning the Cup will save Pat & LOB from losing there jobs this summer TH, remember Fenlon wasn't a Petrie signing, :wink:, RP will get rid and blame Hyland and Lyndsay for the appointment of Fenlon, no cup and Petrie will have no option but to bring in a new manager in the summer, PF team won't sell STs but bringing in a new manager with new ideas may do it.

As for playing players out of position, it should only be done if the team is depleted from injuries or something like that, not just for the sake of it, ie Derek, i think managers try to get more out of players by playing them out of position, Strachan done it at celtc with Derek, he would play him LM to get more out of him, he would then become a safe player because it is not natural for him to be tracking back defending, he wasn't brought up to play football like that, he was always a striker who wanted to score goals and get forward, and yet when Strachan played him upfront with the big Dutch guy JVOH, Derek would get success scoring goals, he didn't have to be a safe player in that position because he new what he was doing up front in his natural position. Square pegs round holes, Fenlon knows who his goalie and striker will be each week, the rest are pot luck to see if they can fit in to the team, ( i would have said system but there doesn't seem to be one) then it is get the ball to Sparky and see what he can do, very predictable and we got found out a while back by the opposition teams.

Fenlon is a safe manager, that's why he sets his team up the way he does, not to lose, BORING.

We will never push the boat out at Hibs, i wonder if Craig is having second thoughts about joining Hibs now.

Getting beat next week is unthinkable for the club, massive game and Pat should sit up in the stand and let me pick the team, all i would need is a couple of DVDs of a few games Falkirk have played in the last ten games. :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Nope we need to focus on a huge game next week and do what we do best giving the team our great backing

Forgive me for feeling a little bit blue, having just witnessed one of our worst displays in recent years.....

[Braids Hibby]

Forgive me for feeling a little bit blue, having just witnessed one of our worst displays in recent years.....

Give it a day or so and you will be up for next week like the rest of us :)

[Billy Whizz]

Give it a day or so and you will be up for next week like the rest of us :)

Today should have set us up for next week

[Braids Hibby]

Today should have set us up for next week

Come on that was against a team playing for the flag. We were on a hiding to nothing

[Love the Green]

Today should have set us up for next week

It has well get ****ed

kepp the faith:rolleyes:

[Billy Whizz]

Come on that was against a team playing for the flag. We were on a hiding to nothing

We were potentially playing for a place in the Top 6

[Braids Hibby]

We were potentially playing for a place in the Top 6

Immaterial in the bigger scheme of things. Next week is all that matters.

[J-C]

Fenlon prefers 4-5-1 which is all very well if the players you have are good enough, Man U play a similar system but with their players it turns very quickly into a 4-3-3 system. We have very average players at ER and we should be playing a 4-1-4-1 system with the squad we have due to it's lack of pace and creativity.

We should be looking to play a 4-2-3-1 system, similar to many of the top teams in EPL, this allows creativity but also requires pace and stamina.

Fenlon had it too easy over in Ireland and played his system which did well in a very poor league, he's now being found out big time and the quicker he goes the better. The players look bored with the set up and the overly defensive attitude, just look how better we were earlier in the season when we played with Cairney/Doyle and even Wotherspoon all playing in an attacking formation, now they're playing scared due to the restraints on their natural attacking play.

[J-C]

Immaterial in the bigger scheme of things. Next week is all that matters.

Big difference in money top 6 compared to bottom, could make a difference next season when we need to buy players.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Big difference in money top 6 compared to bottom, could make a difference next season when we need to buy players.

Agreed, to see it as immaterial is sheer folly...... That said a Final spot has huge fianancial rewards.....

[sesoim]

Surely after all the progress he has made, and on such a limited budget compared to other SPL teams, Fenlon deserves a new contract. The football has been great, the midfield has chipped in massively with so many goals, and the 4-5-1 works a treat (3 wins in the last 20 league games, brilliant!). In fact, we don't even need Griffiths - Fenlon's other forward signings have been so good I'm sure we'd have done the business without him.

Full credit to the Hibs board for doing their homework and appointing him ahead of all the other managers we might have had. Now, with confidence, I can look forward to a game against the likes of Ross County or Inverness knowing we wont be humiliated. We might even take Falkirk to a replay!

Lets just pray that the Hibs board get their finger out and give Fenlon a longer contract before other teams spot the difference he has made.

[J-C]

Surely after all the progress he has made, and on such a limited budget compared to other SPL teams, Fenlon deserves a new contract. The football has been great, the midfield has chipped in massively with so many goals, and the 4-5-1 works a treat (3 wins in the last 20 league games, brilliant!). In fact, we don't even need Griffiths - Fenlon's other forward signings have been so good I'm sure we'd have done the business without him.

Full credit to the Hibs board for doing their homework and appointing him ahead of all the other managers we might have had. Now, with confidence, I can look forward to a game against the likes of Ross County or Inverness knowing we wont be humiliated. We might even take Falkirk to a replay!

Lets just pray that the Hibs board get their finger out and give Fenlon a longer contract before other teams spot the difference he has made.


I take it this was all typed very much tongue firmly in the cheek.

[Billy Whizz]

I take it this was all typed very much tongue firmly in the cheek.

You beat me too it

[J-C]

Agreed, to see it as immaterial is sheer folly...... That said a Final spot has huge fianancial rewards.....

So what happened to last years huge financial rewards..........couldn't afford Craig(have to wait for him), missed many players seemingly because we didn't have the money to get them??

[Baldy Foghorn]

So what happened to last years huge financial rewards..........couldn't afford Craig(have to wait for him), missed many players seemingly because we didn't have the money to get them??

All swallowed up.....And yet we are continually being asked to spend, whether via Season Tickets, lottery etc...

[Billy Whizz]

All swallowed up.....And yet we are continually being asked to spend, whether via Season Tickets, lottery etc...

And bricks that haven't appeared yet.......

[Ozyhibby]

Surely after all the progress he has made, and on such a limited budget compared to other SPL teams, Fenlon deserves a new contract. The football has been great, the midfield has chipped in massively with so many goals, and the 4-5-1 works a treat (3 wins in the last 20 league games, brilliant!). In fact, we don't even need Griffiths - Fenlon's other forward signings have been so good I'm sure we'd have done the business without him.

Full credit to the Hibs board for doing their homework and appointing him ahead of all the other managers we might have had. Now, with confidence, I can look forward to a game against the likes of Ross County or Inverness knowing we wont be humiliated. We might even take Falkirk to a replay!

Lets just pray that the Hibs board get their finger out and give Fenlon a longer contract before other teams spot the difference he has made.

No mention of a place in the Hibernian Hall of Fame?
You must have an agenda against him.
The Fenlon Fan boys (Phannys for short) will be on to sort you out shortly.

[IberianHibernian]

If you were Pat Fenlon reading this messageboard would you rush to sign a new contract whatever happens in the next 2 months resultswise and / or with signing new players for next season ? Recent results and performances have been disappointing but some of the folk who criticise him here have been at it since Pat arrived at Hibs .

[J-C]

If you were Pat Fenlon reading this messageboard would you rush to sign a new contract whatever happens in the next 2 months resultswise and / or with signing new players for next season ? Recent results and performances have been disappointing but some of the folk who criticise him here have been at it since Pat arrived at Hibs .


I was delighted when he took over as he sounded like a breathe of fresh air, unfortunately things have turned full circle and he looks clueless as to how to turn it round again, staring to look out his depth.

[whiskyhibby]

Surely after all the progress he has made, and on such a limited budget compared to other SPL teams, Fenlon deserves a new contract. The football has been great, the midfield has chipped in massively with so many goals, and the 4-5-1 works a treat (3 wins in the last 20 league games, brilliant!). In fact, we don't even need Griffiths - Fenlon's other forward signings have been so good I'm sure we'd have done the business without him.

Full credit to the Hibs board for doing their homework and appointing him ahead of all the other managers we might have had. Now, with confidence, I can look forward to a game against the likes of Ross County or Inverness knowing we wont be humiliated. We might even take Falkirk to a replay!

Lets just pray that the Hibs board get their finger out and give Fenlon a longer contract before other teams spot the difference he has made.


Sarcasm aside, this is bull****', Fenlon has made progress with the team and I look forward to him taking the side further thismyear

[lord bunberry]

:agree:

Next week, how will we react in a game where the onus is on us to dominate and go and win

By going on and winning

[The Voice Of Reason]

If you were Pat Fenlon reading this messageboard would you rush to sign a new contract whatever happens in the next 2 months resultswise and / or with signing new players for next season ? Recent results and performances have been disappointing but some of the folk who criticise him here have been at it since Pat arrived at Hibs .

Sorry but that is poppycock.

Folk are commenting on what they see on a Saturday and the frankly abysmal and unacceptable performances and results.

Simple really.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Sarcasm aside, this is bull****', Fenlon has made progress with the team and I look forward to him taking the side further thismyear

What progress ? Seriously, what progress?

[gegs70]

I suppose what he has done is stabalise hibs. With a little improvement. But its not exactly been free flowing or an exciting brand of fitba?? he has made a few booboos along the way nae attacking mids or decent ones, nae big strikers...only kuqi who wisnae fit couldnae run...what scouting network found him!!

[yeezus.]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it!

I keep saying the same about the national team :rolleyes:

I agree with you that we should wait and see what happens in the Scottish Cup. I have only been able to make it to a handful of games this season and I haven't been impressed with our style of football one bit - but I think given the way the team was when Fenlon came in, it will just take a lot of time.

By the way, the games I made finished as follows: Hearts (H) 1-1, Aberdeen (A) 1-2, Dundee (A) 0-3, Hearts (H) 1-0, Kilmarnock (A) 1-1.

Just as well I haven't been well given our recent form!

[whiskyhibby]

We were potentially playing for a place in the Top 6

Yeah but against a team at home that are at least 15 points ahead of 2nd place, are you really so nieve to believe that this is a game we should have won?

[Billy Whizz]

Yeah but against a team at home that are at least 15 points ahead of 2nd place, are you really so nieve to believe that this is a game we should have won?

Why bother?

[SMAXXA]

http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6369557/il_fullxfull.346845728.jpg (http://www.hibs.net/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=rome+wasn't+built+in+a+day&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=KUcsJFTewGiQ1M&tbnid=tZtb6v9n9NXkwM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.etsy.com%2Flisting%2F10248477 6%2Frome-wasnt-built-in-a-day-english&ei=wotgUfLnHcru0gXU0IHABw&bvm=bv.44770516,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNEr0EJIIFyW3-CXIkr1iTKKKiuIxA&ust=1365368072776682)

[J-C]

Yeah but against a team at home that are at least 15 points ahead of 2nd place, are you really so nieve to believe that this is a game we should have won?

Yes against a team we wee undefeated against so far this season,

[IberianHibernian]

Sorry but that is poppycock.

Folk are commenting on what they see on a Saturday and the frankly abysmal and unacceptable performances and results.

Simple really. What`s "poppycock" ? Pat will be as disappointed as any of us by results and performances since Christmas . I`m sure he`s also disappointed that he hasn`t been able to strengthen squad more since he arrived - he`s had almost no decent options on bench since he arrived so even though he knew there`d be limitations on signings ( we`ve spent a fortune sacking recent managers among other things ) I`m sure he hoped he could sign more and better players than he has . So he may also be disappointed by limited support ( financially , scouting , public support ..) from board . And some of the fans here who criticise Fenlon here have been doing it since he arrived ( happens with all our managers - a few fans decide they don`t want manager for whatever reason and appear when results go badly ) - that is a fact not " poppycock " .

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Yeah but against a team at home that are at least 15 points ahead of 2nd place, are you really so nieve to believe that this is a game we should have won?

Are you seriously saying that that is what people on this thread are suggesting? This wasn't a normal game at Parkhead where it would normally be acceptable to go and shut up shop. We had to win to have even a remote chance of finishing in the top 6, but, the same old formation, numerous holding players etc was all the manager could come up with, it just doesnae make any sense. Its more than likely we would've lost through there with a more gung ho attitude, but, at least if the punters could see we had given it a go it would have been a tad more acceptable.

[JohnStephens91]

If you were Pat Fenlon reading this messageboard would you rush to sign a new contract whatever happens in the next 2 months resultswise and / or with signing new players for next season ? Recent results and performances have been disappointing but some of the folk who criticise him here have been at it since Pat arrived at Hibs .

I totally agree, all of his detractors have been ready waiting with a gun ready to snipe him, it has been evident right throughout the whole of his tenure. Because he came across from the League of Ireland some fans were unwilling to accept he is a good manager and have been taking potshots at him throughout the current campaign. Even when we were up at the top end of the league and Ross County beat us 3-2 we had someone calling for him to be sacked :rolleyes:.

Whilst the last few months have not been acceptable and we have a right to voice our criticism doing it in a totally negative manner and calling for Pat to be sacked or telling him to **** off is not good at all. Back the players, back the manager, back the club and stop being so negative, if we spur the players and manager on rather than turning on them at every opportunity we wouldn't have had a few seasons out of the loop. Paatelainen was forced out and then went on to be manager of the season at Kilmarnock all because of us - the fans.

[hibee19]

I totally agree, all of his detractors have been ready waiting with a gun ready to snipe him, it has been evident right throughout the whole of his tenure. Because he came across from the League of Ireland some fans were unwilling to accept he is a good manager and have been taking potshots at him throughout the current campaign. Even when we were up at the top end of the league and Ross County beat us 3-2 we had someone calling for him to be sacked :rolleyes:.

Whilst the last few months have not been acceptable and we have a right to voice our criticism doing it in a totally negative manner and calling for Pat to be sacked or telling him to **** off is not good at all. Back the players, back the manager, back the club and stop being so negative, if we spur the players and manager on rather than turning on them at every opportunity we wouldn't have had a few seasons out of the loop. Paatelainen was forced out and then went on to be manager of the season at Kilmarnock all because of us - the fans.

No Hibs fan I know gives two ****s about where the manager comes from, if he succeeds then we're all happy. I think after 3 wins in 20 league games people can rightly question whether hes up to the job.

[Lang Toun Hibs]

Big difference in money top 6 compared to bottom, could make a difference next season when we need to buy players.

I don't claim to know the exact figures, nor am I chartered accountant or some financial guru. However, the basic fact that we have an average attendance of around the 10k mark should be the thing to make the difference in attracting players against other properly run clubs with average crowds of 3/4k no matter where a team finishes and prize money they collect - we're not talking millions of pounds here. Arguably, we may see larger crowds in the bottom six this year (outside of Celtic of course) - provided we get a result next week, and if we do, we have cup final cash too...possibly Europe! So a lot hanging on next weekend but as for finishing bottom six, it matters not to me. Yes I'm miffed that the season has fallen away but if we're not in a position to challenge at the top end (and we are clearly not as good as a number of teams as recent performances and the League table proves) then I'm not losing any sleep over it. We should still be in a position to strengthen and improve in the summer.

[Captain Trips]

If 15 months is there are major question marks still over tactics etc is this really the right man? I like the guy but he worried me after 3 months and he still worries me.

[Treadstone]

I totally agree, all of his detractors have been ready waiting with a gun ready to snipe him, it has been evident right throughout the whole of his tenure. Because he came across from the League of Ireland some fans were unwilling to accept he is a good manager and have been taking potshots at him throughout the current campaign.

Has he proven at Easter Road that he is a good manager ?

[RecobasUncle]

Some people are suggesting that having an agenda against Fenlon is a bad thing.

Wanting a manager that can achieve top 6 against behemoths such as Inverness CT and Ross County is not a bad thing.

We have no victories in the SPL at home since 2012. Where is the progress in that?

PS The football is cack. Not Stoke like 'oh but at least it's effective' cack either.(see previous line)

[IberianHibernian]

t was siad ws that a few vociferous critics were criticising him
No Hibs fan I know gives two ****s about where the manager comes from, if he succeeds then we're all happy. I think after 3 wins in 20 league games people can rightly question whether hes up to the job.What was said was that a few PF critics were having a go at him as soon as he arrived and appearing to criticise him here after any defeat since . Presumably the same critics will give him praise if we win the SC . The same has happened with other recent managers - with Yogi there were folk having a go at him before he was appointed .

[Northernhibee]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it!

It seems that a vast majority of posters on here are not very good at pattern recognition. :agree:

We have a LOI legend (playing and managerial) in charge of the team and it's same old same old in some respects, that not seem a little strange people?

This is so bad on here the night even the Samaritans would go "****s sakes".

[Braids Hibby]

PF on the verge of back to back cup finals. Seriously wonder at the mentality of some what do you expect.

[Andy74]

I totally agree, all of his detractors have been ready waiting with a gun ready to snipe him, it has been evident right throughout the whole of his tenure. Because he came across from the League of Ireland some fans were unwilling to accept he is a good manager and have been taking potshots at him throughout the current campaign. Even when we were up at the top end of the league and Ross County beat us 3-2 we had someone calling for him to be sacked :rolleyes:.

Whilst the last few months have not been acceptable and we have a right to voice our criticism doing it in a totally negative manner and calling for Pat to be sacked or telling him to **** off is not good at all. Back the players, back the manager, back the club and stop being so negative, if we spur the players and manager on rather than turning on them at every opportunity we wouldn't have had a few seasons out of the loop. Paatelainen was forced out and then went on to be manager of the season at Kilmarnock all because of us - the fans.

We are seeing now we haven't had any recent success. We give some of these foreign owners of English clubs abuse yet the first thought of many Hibs fans is to sack whatever manager has gone a few months short of expectations. I think we've forgotten how bad we were as a club never mind a team. It's being changed. The current team hasn't sustained the improvement but you have to allow the management to address that. If we force Fenlon out we will be back here next year wondering why all these wee teams have some secret that means they can build successful teams.

[Treadstone]

PF on the verge of back to back cup finals. Seriously wonder at the mentality of some what do you expect.

Well said. We should be grateful for the 3 wins in the last 20 league games and the 15 goals scored in those games.

[matty_f]

I totally agree, all of his detractors have been ready waiting with a gun ready to snipe him, it has been evident right throughout the whole of his tenure. Because he came across from the League of Ireland some fans were unwilling to accept he is a good manager and have been taking potshots at him throughout the current campaign. Even when we were up at the top end of the league and Ross County beat us 3-2 we had someone calling for him to be sacked :rolleyes:.

Whilst the last few months have not been acceptable and we have a right to voice our criticism doing it in a totally negative manner and calling for Pat to be sacked or telling him to **** off is not good at all. Back the players, back the manager, back the club and stop being so negative, if we spur the players and manager on rather than turning on them at every opportunity we wouldn't have had a few seasons out of the loop. Paatelainen was forced out and then went on to be manager of the season at Kilmarnock all because of us - the fans.

I agree that there were folk with the knives out very early doors with Pat this season, and I agree that it was unreasonable - but I can't see what signs there are at the moment that the criticism isn't entirely justified.

IMHO, going into a must-win game (and today was a must-win game) and setting the team up just not to lose (and then losing anyway) is up there with Potter's playing no strikers. It is unforgivable to come away from a game that we had to win, and the opposition's keeper didn't get his shirt dirty.

It's an insult to the support - to the travelling fans and to the season ticket holders and walk ups that have stuck with the club after a f****ing horrendous performance at the end of last season. Fans that have been remarkably vocal and consistent in their support of the team this season.

To collapse for as long as we have (remember we were top of the league at the erse end of last year) to the point where we had to go to Parkhead and win to just have a chance of top 6 is brutal, but to then not even have a go at winning that game... :bitchy:

I like Pat Fenlon. I like what he has to say and I've always been encouraged about how he describes what he wants for the club.

What I don't like is watching a Hibs side that doesn't go at teams like they want to win, that bottles it when things don't go well, and that lose without putting up a fight. That's what we're getting served up at the moment, and Fenlon is responsible for it.

[IberianHibernian]

Do you mean 3 months or 3 days
If 15 months is there are major question marks still over tactics etc is this really the right man? I like the guy but he worried me after 3 months and he still worries me.Do you mean 3 months or 3 days ? Do you think the present squad is good enough to finish high up ( top 3 or 4 , there was almost no difference between us and 6th ) in an admittedly mediocre SPL ? Do you think another manager with same players and money available would have done better in league and cup ?

[SMAXXA]

Some people are suggesting that having an agenda against Fenlon is a bad thing.

Wanting a manager that can achieve top 6 against behemoths such as Inverness CT and Ross County is not a bad thing.

We have no victories in the SPL at home since 2012. Where is the progress in that?

PS The football is cack. Not Stoke like 'oh but at least it's effective' cack either.(see previous line)

As has been mentioned before this is where Scotland and more specifically the SPL has ruined our game to the level that mediocre league placing's i.e. finishing in the "top 6" is a success. We keep hearing managers trot out the same ambition season after season our aim is to finish in the top 6, no that's not acceptable for most SPL clubs and how do clubs and most importantly manager get away with classing this as a success? We accept mediocre as some kind of success when in reality most outwith Celtic have failed this season in what was a great opportunity to go and have a successful top 2 or 3 season. I like Fenlon and havnt criticised him at all but as much as we have progressed I am starting to feel less enthused as our season pitters out. And if im honest even if we beat Falkirk I cant help feel we will be in line for another humping at Hampden come may. First time ive actually felt quite negative as im sure if you read my posts im generally quite positive about the team / club.

[silverhibee]

I take it this was all typed very much tongue firmly in the cheek.


I thought he was being serious too. :cb

[Holmesdale Hibs]

We're a bit pish at the moment but still better than we were at this time last year. For me, PF has improved the squad and therefore should keep his job.

We sacked Mixu and Yogi prematurely IMO (not CC who should have been punted in summer before he left) and I don't think introducing someone new now would help anyone.

Give PF until Xmas at least. There's only so much he can do with a bottom 6 squad and a limited budget. Can anyone else give an example of a team that's benefited from regularly sacking managers?

[hibsitis]

its obvious we have been picking the wrong managers in the last 5 - 6 years. However it s also obvious we have sacked some too quickly.

Fenlon has been given time, and I think he will get more time. He has IMO until Christmas this year to show why he should be boss.


what I would love to know is what happens to payers at hibs? I mean why do we have so many players who at first seem to be good signings then they turn terrible :confused:

mcpake, has been pretty poor for months. used to be a rock and fire the team up. now he seems uninterested.

Deggan - great start to the season, the hardman in the middle we had cried for for years. now nothing...

mcgivern - looked a great player in his first few games, now he blows hot and cold.....mostly cold.

doyle - him and leigh were clicking at the start, now he struggles to get a game.

the worst thing about it all is why the players cant do the basics, passing, crossing, throw ins. shooting.

Hibs need a proper clear out, and I mean proper in the summer. Fenlon has A LOT of work to do.

Hang on - so Fenlon has had these players for a season and has overseen their declining performances and we say he's got 'work to do' rather than this is evidence he's 'got to go'?

[hibsitis]

We're a bit pish at the moment but still better than we were at this time last year. For me, PF has improved the squad and therefore should keep his job.

We sacked Mixu and Yogi prematurely IMO (not CC who should have been punted in summer before he left) and I don't think introducing someone new now would help anyone.

Give PF until Xmas at least. There's only so much he can do with a bottom 6 squad and a limited budget. Can anyone else give an example of a team that's benefited from regularly sacking managers?

Is this a joke?

Is his budget more limited than any of the teams that finished above us other than Celtic?

If his squad is 'bottom six', who's fault is that?

[Captain Trips]

Do you mean 3 months or 3 daysDo you mean 3 months or 3 days ? Do you think the present squad is good enough to finish high up ( top 3 or 4 , there was almost no difference between us and 6th ) in an admittedly mediocre SPL ? Do you think another manager with same players and money available would have done better in league and cup ?

There is no did I mean it clearly states 3 months and yes I do think it was possible to be higher both last season and this, his cup record probably not easy to beat.

Does everyone on here who is critcal of PF not think that a different manager could have done better hence why the criticism?

[gegs70]

I think being honest he has brought on a lot of younger players and perhaps that is more his longterm goal is more game time for players likw handling and harris etc rather than paying big wages for half decent players that perhaps dont have the passion the supporters really wish to see.

[alexhibs]

We're a bit pish at the moment but still better than we were at this time last year. For me, PF has improved the squad and therefore should keep his job.

We sacked Mixu and Yogi prematurely IMO (not CC who should have been punted in summer before he left) and I don't think introducing someone new now would help anyone.

Give PF until Xmas at least. There's only so much he can do with a bottom 6 squad and a limited budget. Can anyone else give an example of a team that's benefited from regularly sacking managers?

Improved? No

[TornadoHibby]

Is this a joke?

Is his budget more limited than any of the teams that finished above us other than Celtic?

If his squad is 'bottom six', who's fault is that?

Is Mikey not a Hibs "official" though hence the "clap trap" (sorry Mikey, had a couple tonight so not perhaps as polite as normal!) :wink:

[lord bunberry]

Hang on - so Fenlon has had these players for a season and has overseen their declining performances and we say he's got 'work to do' rather than this is evidence he's 'got to go'?

Are you seriously suggesting that we sack our manager 1 week before a cup semi final? We would go from having a poor season to a team in turmoil yet again and I for one don't really fancy another period of uncertainty

[hibsitis]

Are you seriously suggesting that we sack our manager 1 week before a cup semi final? We would go from having a poor season to a team in turmoil yet again and I for one don't really fancy another period of uncertainty

No, not saying that. I'm saying that even if he wins the cup he has to go. There's no evidence he has what it takes to move us forward sustainably. The league position on a good budget confirms this. Performances have been consistently dreadful and new signings have had little impact. Getting to two cup finals, even if we win this year, is only papering over the cracks.

[Andy74]

Hang on - so Fenlon has had these players for a season and has overseen their declining performances and we say he's got 'work to do' rather than this is evidence he's 'got to go'?

There are reasons though with injury or the fact some of these players were taking steps up or haven't played much football before us. I think we all agree we need much better sustained performance next year. He should be allowed that chance though as I think early season showed what we could and should expect from his teams.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Is this a joke?

Is his budget more limited than any of the teams that finished above us other than Celtic?

If his squad is 'bottom six', who's fault is that?

Not entirely PF's. He's with us, what a year and a half? We have more points now than we did last season so how is that not improvement?

We're not very good now granted and I'm not saying everything is great but we under CC was the worst we've been in years. So we have improved, albeit from a very low starting point.

We lost at Celtic Park which is hardly a first. Not saying I like it, just that IMO it's not a sackable offence. Especially not the week before an important semi final.

[lord bunberry]

No, not saying that. I'm saying that even if he wins the cup he has to go. There's no evidence he has what it takes to move us forward sustainably. The league position on a good budget confirms this. Performances have been consistently dreadful and new signings have had little impact. Getting to two cup finals, even if we win this year, is only papering over the cracks.

If fenlon wins the cup he will be given the freedom of leith. There's absolutely no way he will be sacked if he wins us the cup, to suggest he will is utterly ludicrous

[The Modfather]

I think being honest he has brought on a lot of younger players

IMO it is the exact opposite, he has under utilised the likes of Caldwell and Handling. Harris has only been featuring regularly the last wee while, maybe he wasn't ready for the first team until now, but blooding the youngsters is something I've been dissapointed with.

[DJ HIBBY]

Apart from the argument that we need stability, shouldn't be sacking managers all the time etc

What have you seen in Fenlon to back him for next season?

[Eyrie]

Handling and Caldwell should be given opportunities in the last five games, but if that doesn't happen it could be because they're not good enough rather than Fenlon not wanting to play youngsters. Personally I'd give them the chance to show what they can or can't do as the only must-win games are the cup and derby.

[Mikey]

Apart from the argument that we need stability, shouldn't be sacking managers all the time etc

What have you seen in Fenlon to back him for next season?

Probably the same as they saw in the first season's of Butcher at ICT, Levein at Dundee Utd, McCall at Motherwell, Adams at Ross County, etc.

I remember Levein in particular having a shocking first season and they went on to win the cup a few years later.

EDIT - Albeit a few months after Levein left but it was his team

[wearethehibs]

Well last year at this time we were worried about relegation. This year we are annoyed at missing out on top 6. Thats good enough for me.

In Fenlon I trust.

[blackpoolhibs]

As much as i am losing patience with whats going on at easter road, i saw enough early doors when we did play some very good stuff.

And we did look like a decent team then, and even recently at tannadice and Kilmarnock, we have shown glimpses of being a decent side.

So for me, that and remember we are still in the cup, and could be in a cup final next week. For those reasons he should get more time in my opinion.

[Heisenberg]

I knew (like most others I'd imagine) Celtc would beat us easily yesterday so that's not really in question, but the performance and the desire of the players is something else. They could've at least looked like they wanted to go and do something in the game, perhaps Fenlon just cant get them motivated for games or perhaps the players have lost faith in him and vice versa, I really dont know. Whatever is going on it needs sorted before next weekend. Fenlon loses that and I think he'll struggle, especially if our league form continues and we finish in the same place as last season. But then if he does get punted, what next? Can we really sit back and let the same people at the top pick another manager?

I was fully supporting Fenlon but the last few weeks, more like months, have really got me worried about his managerial ability. The ICT game for instance was an absolute tactical nightmare, no one looked like they knew what they were doing and the utter mess of whatever 451/442 formation he was attempting just didnt work. I like the guy, he talks a very good game, but whether or not he can deliver on it is completley different. I'm inclined to stick with him for the start of next season (more for continuity than anything else, but getting rid and allowing a new man to build wouldnt be the worst idea) to see what he can do given the summer but if we start the first 10 or so games as he has them playing now then he gets punted in my opinion.

This is all assuming he dosent manage the unthinkable. If he wins us the holy grail he gets a statue and a 10 year contract :greengrin

[Mikey]

And before this turn into another "them and us" type argument where it's either black or white, I don't recall seeing anyone say that he's doing a good job right now. He's done enough to buy some time with a large section of the support though.

That might change on Saturday afternoon :greengrin

We might be in Europe on Sunday afternoon :wink:

[AberdreamHibee]

The whole of last season I didn't come away from one single game saying "good performance" "great win, some nice football" etc.

This season I have. We played some brilliant stuff for the first half, but as soon as we got injuries and the lineup was shaken up the team suddenly became disjointed and collapsed.

McPake, McGivern, Claros, Griffiths, Cairney, Clancy etc are good players but all have dipped in form at once. I think Fenlon has an eye for a player and likes to give youth a chance. I prefer him to Yogi or Calderwood by a mile.

Give Fenlon another year at least....you cannot build Rome in a night.

[Golden Bear]

Well last year at this time we were worried about relegation. This year we are annoyed at missing out on top 6. Thats good enough for me.

In Fenlon I trust.

Super. Mediocrity rules ok.

[AK86]

Well last year at this time we were worried about relegation. This year we are annoyed at missing out on top 6. Thats good enough for me.

In Fenlon I trust.
Really. I'm mean really ?
that utter dross we have watched since November is good enough for you humped from Dundee ICT Ross county and Motherwell , is good enough for you?
two league wins in 5 months. Not won at home this year. Is good enough?

you must have some great medication. Pat

[Borderhibbie76]

Super. Mediocrity rules ok.

Nothing to do with accepting Mediocrity mate, but it was unrealistic to expect we would jump from relegation fodder to challenging for Europe in one season. Some people forget how bad we were for the last 2 seasons and the fact we probably would have made top 6 but for shocking refereeing decisions buys PF a bit more time for me....though granted the jury is still out and defeat next week may well finish him off!!

[lord bunberry]

Super. Mediocrity rules ok.

I don't see anyone saying the're happy with being bottom 6 but we're saying he should be given more time. I would like to take people back to this time last year when a sizable minority were happy for us to be relegated and win the cup, how many fans who said that are now looking for fenlon to be sacked

[DJ HIBBY]

Super. Mediocrity rules ok.

If we lose next week, I will want a new manager in place for pre-season.

Early in the season even when we were winning games, I can't think of too many when we actually played that well or clearly dominated a team.

[BoltonHibee]

If fenlon wins the cup he will be given the freedom of leith. There's absolutely no way he will be sacked if he wins us the cup, to suggest he will is utterly ludicrous

I don't think it's ludicrous to suggest that at all.

Don't get me wrong, a Cup win would be great for obvious reasons but if we won it every few years or 5 years it wouldn't such a big deal.

We need 2 wins in the Cup to bring it home. But add that to the rest of the season ( in win terms) it's still a poor record. A record that should be unacceptable to us

[The Modfather]

Probably the same as they saw in the first season's of Butcher at ICT, Levein at Dundee Utd, McCall at Motherwell, Adams at Ross County, etc.

I remember Levein in particular having a shocking first season and they went on to win the cup a few years later.

EDIT - Albeit a few months after Levein left but it was his team

Mikey, that's like a politicians answer, diluting the question by bringing in other teams and other managers into your answer but still not actually answering the question.

What is it you've seen in Fenlon to suggest he is the right man for next season? Or, if you prefer, what are the specifics of "Probably the same as they saw in the first season's of Butcher at ICT, Levein at Dundee Utd, McCall at Motherwell, Adams at Ross County, etc." What did those fans see that we are now also seeing with Fenlon?

[PeterboroHibee]

The collapse in form of the team during this half of the season is hugely disappointing, but in terms of progress we arent facing relegation until the second last game of the season, we have a far better goals difference than last season (that up until a few weeks ago was around +5 I think), we havent been as much of a soft touch in the derbys, and we also have an excellent opportunity to get to another SC final.

I do think Fenlon has made a number of mistakes this season that have cost us, but hopefully hes learned from that. I also hope that next season he has more of an idea of how he wants us to play as it feels like he has just signed a lot of players without thinking about where they are going to play, which has led to us playing guys out of position almost every game.

I dont really get all the cries for Fenlon to go, especially when we arent in trouble and on the verge of a SC final. If we dont keep Griffiths next season however thats going to be a huge test of Fenlons managerial abilities, and when he should be assessed imo.

[lord bunberry]

I don't think it's ludicrous to suggest that at all.

Don't get me wrong, a Cup win would be great for obvious reasons but if we won it every few years or 5 years it wouldn't such a big deal.

We need 2 wins in the Cup to bring it home. But add that to the rest of the season ( in win terms) it's still a poor record. A record that should be unacceptable to us

I couldn't disagree more mate, if fenlon does what no manager in living memory does and wins us the cup there's no way he will be sacked. The famous five and turnbulls tornadoes couldn't do it. Winning the cup will finally end the years of shame and misery we've had to put up with in the cup. My dads never seen my grandfather didn't see and I don't want my kid to be saying the same

[DJ HIBBY]

The collapse in form of the team during this half of the season is hugely disappointing, but in terms of progress we arent facing relegation until the second last game of the season, we have a far better goals difference than last season (that up until a few weeks ago was around +5 I think), we havent been as much of a soft touch in the derbys, and we also have an excellent opportunity to get to another SC final.

I do think Fenlon has made a number of mistakes this season that have cost us, but hopefully hes learned from that. I also hope that next season he has more of an idea of how he wants us to play as it feels like he has just signed a lot of players without thinking about where they are going to play, which has led to us playing guys out of position almost every game.

I dont really get all the cries for Fenlon to go, especially when we arent in trouble and on the verge of a SC final. If we dont keep Griffiths next season however thats going to be a huge test of Fenlons managerial abilities, and when he should be assessed imo.

Signing a lot of players without thinking about they were going to play is pretty much a waste of his and Hibs budget and would suggest to me he is clueless!

[Mikey]

Mikey, that's like a politicians answer, diluting the question by bringing in other teams and other managers into your answer but still not actually answering the question.

What is it you've seen in Fenlon to suggest he is the right man for next season? Or, if you prefer, what are the specifics of "Probably the same as they saw in the first season's of Butcher at ICT, Levein at Dundee Utd, McCall at Motherwell, Adams at Ross County, etc." What did those fans see that we are now also seeing with Fenlon?

I've seen an improvement in our league position and the quality of players at the club.

[GreenOnions]

As much as i am losing patience with whats going on at easter road, i saw enough early doors when we did play some very good stuff.

And we did look like a decent team then, and even recently at tannadice and Kilmarnock, we have shown glimpses of being a decent side.

So for me, that and remember we are still in the cup, and could be in a cup final next week. For those reasons he should get more time in my opinion.

Totally agree. Pat's first six months were all about managing an emergency and he had to make short term signings etc to deal with that.

Stage 1 proper for me was this season. If we remember looking at the squad at the end of last year and thinking "how many of those players do we want to keep" you remind yourself of the sheer size of the task Pat faced then. I think that, without setting the heather on fire, we have moved forward as BH demonstrates above.

Next season is stage 2. Pat will have some budget due to players such as Kuqi, Kajabi, Doyle and Done not returning. There will also be others he allows to leave. Clearly it's a worry that Griffiths, Claros, Thomson and McGivern could all leave but if some of them stay then Pat has a good start already in place. If most, or all, of them leave then he has a bigger job to do but quite a bit more budget to do it with.

For me - there's enough going on that's positive to keep our nerve and stick with the programme.

[The Modfather]

I've seen an improvement in our league position and the quality of players at the club.

What improvement in the league position is that? We were 9th when he took over and are 9th now.

[Mikey]

What improvement in the league position is that? We were 9th when he took over and are 9th now.

Points.

Pick holes in what I'm saying all you like, I'm off out anyway :greengrin

[Elephant Stone]

I think for the first time in what seems like ages we've got an intelligent manager. When things weren't going well for Hughes and Calderwood I'd listen to interviews and want to smash my face of a brick wall. They sounded desperate and gave no indication they knew what was going wrong or that they had the ability to turn things around. When I hear Pat I agree with everything he says and I get the impression he actually knows what he's talking about.

I think he's going to build a decent team. There have been a few signings which haven't worked out too great so far but he's signed some players who are perfect for Hibs. McPake, although having not having a great season, is definitely capable of being a great centre half and captain, as he showed last season. Williams is the first genuinely talented and consistently reliable goalkeeper I can remember for us. Claros has shown himself to be an excellent player, as has McGivern.

If he's given time then I don't see why we shouldn't expect more good players to form his team. I've seen nothing to suggest any stubbornness or enthusiasm to play players when it's not working out for them. Doyle was tried and it never really worked out, he's not going to be here next season. I honestly believe that after the summer's business is done we'll be a stronger team.

I think the excellent start we had this season raised people's expectations above where is reasonable. It's pretty disheartening to be in the bottom six again but the truth is we missed out by a mere ball hair and if it wasn't for quite a few awful refereeing decisions against us we'd be comfortably in the top six and I don't think these questions would even be asked about him. This is the first season this group of players have been together and for having already beaten last season's points total and being 90 minutes away from another Scottish cup final I think there is more to be positive about than a lot of people seem to be noticing.

[BoltonHibee]

Points.

Pick holes in what I'm saying all you like, I'm off out anyway :greengrin

Off out to get some new straws? :)

[BEEJ]

Totally agree. Pat's first six months were all about managing an emergency and he had to make short term signings etc to deal with that.

Stage 1 proper for me was this season. If we remember looking at the squad at the end of last year and thinking "how many of those players do we want to keep" you remind yourself of the sheer size of the task Pat faced then. I think that, without setting the heather on fire, we have moved forward as BH demonstrates above.

Next season is stage 2. Pat will have some budget due to players such as Kuqi, Kajabi, Doyle and Done not returning. There will also be others he allows to leave. Clearly it's a worry that Griffiths, Claros, Thomson and McGivern could all leave but if some of them stay then Pat has a good start already in place. If most, or all, of them leave then he has a bigger job to do but quite a bit more budget to do it with..
Really? :confused:

Last summer PF moved on 15 players from the squad (5 of which were at ER on loan deals) and he brought in 9 new players. A massive turnover in personnel.

The problem is that we're already looking at another summer window in 2013 characterised by high player turnover levels. Not convinced that the budget will be any better, though.

[SaulGoodman]

You've got to wonder why you would want to be a Hibs manager. You can start as well as you want but as soon as you hit bad form (which happens to every team) the fans call for you to be sacked, you lose your job and the managerial merry-go-round that is Hibernian FC gets someone else.

At which point we'll say the first seasons for rebuilding and we'll actually give this manager time.. Until we lose a game of course.

I'm not a happy clapper, I was raging after yesterday and I'm not certain on Fenlon either. But ffs what is the point of sacking him? We'd be stuck in the same rut again with another rebuilding season on the cards. There's no point.

[wearethehibs]

At the start of the season we all just wanted us to be better than last. Yes we're still not a good team, yea we are still under performing

But we are better than last season. I pray we win next week. Means we will be in a final again and our league performance has improved.

We got to last seasons points total in like January that to me is so much better than last season!

[GreenOnions]

Really? :confused:

Last summer PF moved on 15 players from the squad (5 of which were at ER on loan deals) and he brought in 9 new players. A massive turnover in personnel.

The problem is that we're already looking at another summer window in 2013 characterised by high player turnover levels. Not convinced that the budget will be any better, though.

I simply meant that the wages currently being paid to loan players would be, hopefully, available for new players - thus my suggestion that more budget would be available.

I know what you're saying about player turnover - and it makes building a team harder. However, I don't think Pat could do much about the huge turnover last season - it was simply necessary. This close season could still involve many comings and goings too. However, if this is exacerbated by Griffiths, Claros, Thomson and McGivern leaving should Pat be criticised for bringing in players who are good enough to command much higher wages elsewhere?

[I'm_cabbaged]

At the start of the season we all just wanted us to be better than last. Yes we're still not a good team, yea we are still under performing

But we are better than last season. I pray we win next week. Means we will be in a final again and our league performance has improved.

We got to last seasons points total in like January that to me is so much better than last season!

We were better than last season, now we're as bad if not worse.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think for the first time in what seems like ages we've got an intelligent manager. When things weren't going well for Hughes and Calderwood I'd listen to interviews and want to smash my face of a brick wall. They sounded desperate and gave no indication they knew what was going wrong or that they had the ability to turn things around. When I hear Pat I agree with everything he says and I get the impression he actually knows what he's talking about.

But he doesn't know whats going on? In no post match interviews does he identify areas of his gameplan that hasn't gone right. Other managers do this readily.

All he talks about is attitude, application and effort; all of which our generously paid players should attempt to find themselves.

Tactics are Pat's game and i've not seen a great deal of evidence that suggests he knows his stuff and although he says the right things after games he never mentions his tactics going wrong.

[Treadstone]

At the start of the season we all just wanted us to be better than last. Yes we're still not a good team, yea we are still under performing

But we are better than last season. I pray we win next week. Means we will be in a final again and our league performance has improved.

We got to last seasons points total in like January that to me is so much better than last season!

Is last season the watermark in which we compare whether a good job is being done or not ? Its like the celebration of Dundee utd players yesterday after sneaking into the top 6, pathetic.

[Sir David Gray]

FH - I normally agree with you mate, but what have you seen from Fenlon that warrants your support?

His tactics are grim, he doesn't seem to have an eye for a player (Kuqi, kujabi, Deegan) and the bottom line is that HIS team are going down quicker than a prostitutes pants...........had it not been for Dundee we would be in another relegation dogfight!

It is a results based business and the results (and performances) are dreadful. :boo hoo:

I saw a lot of positives in the early part of the season and they give me hope that he is capable of putting a decent team on the park.

If, and I realise it's a massive if, we can hold onto McGivern, Claros and Griffiths next season then we have the nucleus of a good side. If we could then find a good partner up front for Griffiths then that will help us and in Ben Williams we've got one of the best goalkeepers in the SPL.

The last few months have been terrible, there's no getting away from that but we are 180 minutes away from winning the Scottish Cup for the first time in over a century and if we manage to do that Fenlon will go down as a club legend.

We need to see big improvements next season, for a club like Hibs to finish in the bottom 6 for 3 successive years is unacceptable and we need to improve our league form next year.

I am willing to give him the summer transfer window to see what kind of team he can assemble and then give him another 3-4 months to see what he can do with that team.

If we're sitting near the bottom by the time we get to Christmas and we get a repeat of the Queen of the South result in the League Cup then we should look at things then but I strongly disagree that we sack him now and I don't believe it will do the club any good at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is last season the watermark in which we compare whether a good job is being done or not ? Its like the celebration of Dundee utd players yesterday after sneaking into the top 6, pathetic.

It's one of the benchmarks. It has to be, otherwise how can one measure improvement?

As for the United players, I'd be celebrating too if my bonus had just been assured.

[Beefster]

Probably the same as they saw in the first season's of Butcher at ICT, Levein at Dundee Utd, McCall at Motherwell, Adams at Ross County, etc.

I remember Levein in particular having a shocking first season and they went on to win the cup a few years later.

EDIT - Albeit a few months after Levein left but it was his team

Butcher just about kept ICT up in his first season and made a fair difference almost immediately.

McCall had Motherwell finish top six in his first season.

Adams got Ross County promoted in his first season.

Levein won manager of the month twice in his first five months of the Dundee Utd job and took them from the bottom of the league to easily safe.

I'm not sure what comparisons you can make with Fenlon.


And before this turn into another "them and us" type argument where it's either black or white, I don't recall seeing anyone say that he's doing a good job right now. He's done enough to buy some time with a large section of the support though.

That might change on Saturday afternoon :greengrin

We might be in Europe on Sunday afternoon :wink:

He's done enough to buy some time but that time might only be one game, if Falkirk beat us?

[marinello59]

Points.

Pick holes in what I'm saying all you like, I'm off out anyway :greengrin

I was going to say we would have had much less if Dundee hadn't replaced Rangers but given that we only managed 4 points out of 9 against a team prepared for life in the First Division it didn't make much difference. :greengrin

[Treadstone]

It's one of the benchmarks. It has to be, otherwise how can one measure improvement?

As for the United players, I'd be celebrating too if my bonus had just been assured.

I suppose getting beat 4-1 from Hearts in a cup final would be some measureable improvement. As for Utd would you celebrate a bonus like that for some false achievement defined by mediocrity ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I suppose getting beat 4-1 from Hearts in a cup final would be some measureable improvement. As for Utd would you celebrate a bonus like that for some false achievement defined by mediocrity ?

The key word is bonus. It doesn't matter how third parties see its basis. It's a bonus. They earned it. They have a right to celebrate it.

[Treadstone]

The key word is bonus. It doesn't matter how third parties see its basis. It's a bonus. They earned it. They have a right to celebrate it.

You never answered the question.

[CropleyWasGod]

You never answered the question.

Sorry, I thought I did.

Were I a footballer and I had just earned a bonus, yes I would celebrate. It would be immaterial to me whether third parties had made a judgment on the validity or the rationale of that bonus.

[Treadstone]

Sorry, I thought I did.

Were I a footballer and I had just earned a bonus, yes I would celebrate. It would be immaterial to me whether third parties had made a judgment on the validity or the rationale of that bonus.

Fair enough. I find it a bit embarrassing that a tidy side like United were last season, were as one reporter put it "running about as though they had won the cup" a bit naff for getting sixth place.

[JohnStephens91]

Fair enough. I find it a bit embarrassing that a tidy side like United were last season, were as one reporter put it "running about as though they had won the cup" a bit naff for getting sixth place.

They still have a shot at getting into Europe via the league now?

[Treadstone]

They still have a shot at getting into Europe via the league now?

Do you think thats what they were celebrating or some false achievement indoctrinated to fans ?

[JohnStephens91]

Do you think thats what they were celebrating or some false achievement indoctrinated to fans ?

Well to qualify for Europe you'd need to be in the top 6 so they have the right to celebrate. I'm not saying it is right that we have the split, but they have breathed new life into their season and have a shot at getting up and into Europe. I'd be celebrating if it was Hibs who had secured this chance. I'd rather there was no split though to stop the whole 'top 6 or bust' scenario.

[Treadstone]

Well to qualify for Europe you'd need to be in the top 6 so they have the right to celebrate. I'm not saying it is right that we have the split, but they have breathed new life into their season and have a shot at getting up and into Europe. I'd be celebrating if it was Hibs who had secured this chance. I'd rather there was no split though to stop the whole 'top 6 or bust' scenario.

That's where we differ. For me sixth is sixth, split or not. United can be content with getting a win in good circumstances for themselves, but to celebrate sixth place i find laughable and quite frankly sad for a team of their stature and talent. I don't think Ross Co actively celebrated like this.

[DH1875]

I'm so sick of this knee jurk reaction from our fans. When ever we lose its a sack the manager talks. All these managers can't all be bad. There is something more to it! There is, there's a losing mentality ripping right through our club. Pat even said as much after the game yesterday. To many of us now accept mediocrity and accept defeat. Is it Pat's fault? NO, it's been hanging around since before his time but he has been here a while now so I'd like to think he was on the case. Give him till the end of the season and see where we go from there BUT if we get horsed on Saturday then I'm sorry but he'll have to go.

[J-C]

There is, there's a losing mentality ripping right through our club. Pat even said as much after the game yesterday. To many of us now accept mediocrity and accept defeat. Is it Pat's fault? NO, it's been hanging around since before his time but he has been here a while now so I'd like to think he was on the case. Give him till the end of the season and see where we go from there BUT if we get horsed on Saturday then I'm sorry but he'll have to go.


But there was no losing mentality earlier in the season, so what went wrong and why can't he stop it. :confused:

[JohnStephens91]

That's where we differ. For me sixth is sixth, split or not. United can be content with getting a win in good circumstances for themselves, but to celebrate sixth place i find laughable and quite frankly sad for a team of their stature and talent. I don't think Ross Co actively celebrated like this.

It was tense and 30 seconds from the end. I agree that sixth is not an achievement but it does now open up the avenue for them to go on a compete for a European place in the league and has secured their club more money than the glass ceiling of finishing seventh.

[gegs70]

IMO it is the exact opposite, he has under utilised the likes of Caldwell and Handling. Harris has only been featuring regularly the last wee while, maybe he wasn't ready for the first team until now, but blooding the youngsters is something I've been dissapointed with.

He has played the youngsters allbeit in short doses....but they have to start somewhere...Harris appears the most cinsistent.

I am not saying I am totally convinced by fenlon but I am trying to look at the positives, Im not sure prev managers have utilised the youngsters quite as often, caldwell, harris , handling, wotherspoon , stevenson, hanlon are all youngsters from our youth team who are perhaps geting a little more game time? But I am not always convinced by fenlons tactics or the players he has brought in?

[hibee19]

He has played the youngsters allbeit in short doses....but they have to start somewhere...Harris appears the most cinsistent.

I am not saying I am totally convinced by fenlon but I am trying to look at the positives, Im not sure prev managers have utilised the youngsters quite as often, caldwell, harris , handling, wotherspoon , stevenson, hanlon are all youngsters from our youth team who are perhaps geting a little more game time? But I am not always convinced by fenlons tactics or the players he has brought in?

Teams who do well bringing through youth players tend to play a decent brand of football. Bringing in youth players to play the way we are right now may hurt their development, not help it.

[Matty_Jack04]

But there was no losing mentality earlier in the season, so what went wrong and why can't he stop it. :confused:

This is my issue as well we where playing decent stuff scoring goals looking dangerous and organised, I've just seen a stat on twitter think it was Tom hall, we've taken 16 points from an available 60 2nd half of the season that's horrific really how has that happened?

[Bobo]

This is my issue as well we where playing decent stuff scoring goals looking dangerous and organised, I've just seen a stat on twitter think it was Tom hall, we've taken 16 points from an available 60 2nd half of the season that's horrific really how has that happened?

IMO it took all the other SPL managers just over the first round of fixtures to sus out that we were a one trick pony, despite having new players, and that Fenlon was still inept and clueless when challenged with anything different tactically. Once they all realised this it was all down hill and performances were just as dire as last season!!

Sadly we've witnessed very few convincing performances from Pats' teams since his arrival, he's unfortunately another very poor managerial appointment, far too negative for my liking.

[DH1875]

I think Pat is getting his excuses in here. If there was a losing mentality at the club we wouldn't have seen so many managers come and go recently. The board have hired and fired either in pursuit of success or due to failure to win, whatever your point of view is. I'm disappointed that we are in the position we are in just now and with the core of the team being Pat's, he shouldn't try to deflect the reason we are where we are onto the club that hired him to do better than the previous managers. Pat tells us he has failed, I tend to agree with that opinion though. I'm not just talking about Pat and the board. I throw in the players and the fans as well.

[Up The Bracket]

This myth that we haven't improved is extremely frustrating. If you compare the team now, to the team of last season, you can see we have made a vast improvement.

Brown - Williams

Kujabi - McGivern
McPake - McPake
Hanlon - Hanlon
Doherty - Clancy

Soares - Harris
Osbourne - Thomson
Last Seasons Claros - This Seasons Claros
Stevenson - Cairney

Griffiths - Griffiths
O'Connor - Doyle

If there is no improvement there then god save us! We have gone from relegation contenders to a challenge for the top 6. If we weren't robbed off the 4 points v Hearts and Dundee Utd recently, then we'd be sitting in 6th place and everything would be all well and good.

The last few weeks have been just as disappointing for me as they have for anyone, but there is no point in going into doom and gloom mode. We have a First Division team in our way from another shot at winning the cup! This time in 1 month in a half, Hibs could be parading the Scottish Cup!

Fenlon has improved our team and as long as we see another season of steady improvement then it's fine by me. I highly doubt there would be so many doom and gloomers if we had been around 6th place for the whole season, it has been the drop in form that has caused that.

We have a semi final in 6 days time remember, another trip to Hampden.

:pfgwa

[jacomo]

its obvious we have been picking the wrong managers in the last 5 - 6 years. However it s also obvious we have sacked some too quickly.

Fenlon has been given time, and I think he will get more time. He has IMO until Christmas this year to show why he should be boss.


what I would love to know is what happens to payers at hibs? I mean why do we have so many players who at first seem to be good signings then they turn terrible :confused:

mcpake, has been pretty poor for months. used to be a rock and fire the team up. now he seems uninterested.

Deggan - great start to the season, the hardman in the middle we had cried for for years. now nothing...

mcgivern - looked a great player in his first few games, now he blows hot and cold.....mostly cold.

doyle - him and leigh were clicking at the start, now he struggles to get a game.

the worst thing about it all is why the players cant do the basics, passing, crossing, throw ins. shooting.

Hibs need a proper clear out, and I mean proper in the summer. Fenlon has A LOT of work to do.

This is the key issue. It's clear that Hibs' problems don't begin and end with Fenlon. A whole host of players have under performed for this club and we need to find out why.

[Duns_Hibby]

This is the key issue. It's clear that Hibs' problems don't begin and end with Fenlon. A whole host of players have under performed for this club and we need to find out why.

Sorry, but as an infrequent poster who is not prone to knee-jerk reactions (nope I'm not a Jambo!) and having attended ER since 1968, I'm now forced to respond - it's all right saying that continuity is required but ONLY WHEN the right man is in place to take the club forward.

Sorry, but in my opinion Fenlon is not that man, completely out of his depth - his negativity is astounding and, having witnessed Auld and Miller, he is in my opinion the most negative manager in 40 years - whilst he is a likeable bloke, so was Auld, so was Duffy - he is clueless both in terms of player selection and tactics.

I agree that inertia/negativity/lack of investment are issues - STF I'm sure is doing his best - we can surely expect our manager to get more out of the assets at his disposal? Playing this hellish negative formation, with the wrong players in the wrong places, isn't down to RP/STF, it's down to our manager - compare him with other managers and he is definately lacking - the most galling thing is that we had a much more technically astute guy at the club in Derek Adams and let him go! Look at Bucher, Lomas, McNamara, Shiels - all are better than we have!

In short we need to cut our losses, irrespective of the Scottish Cup - so what if we beat Falkirk (and that will take a huge change in the negative mindset at ER!) do we think we can beat Celtic in our current mindset of containment? - nae chance!

We need a return to positivity and real Hibernian values - Fenlon, in my opinion, doesn't get close to these!

[jacomo]

Sorry, but as an infrequent poster who is not prone to knee-jerk reactions (nope I'm not a Jambo!) and having attended ER since 1968, I'm now forced to respond - it's all right saying that continuity is required but ONLY WHEN the right man is in place to take the club forward.

...

We need a return to positivity and real Hibernian values - Fenlon, in my opinion, doesn't get close to these!

You may be right, but my point is that you could recruit any manager from the SPL to manage Hibs and they might struggle to succeed - we are somehow less than the sum of our parts.

Mowbray said building our own training ground was the single most important investment Hibs could make, and yet it doesn't seem to have benefited us. Our recent record with youth players is poor, our results have been poor for years, and a succession of managers seem unable to instil a consistent way of playing over a season.

As for Hibernian values, the Board seem at a loss to understand what this are, and I don't feel the club is working to a proper long term strategy.

Fenlon is clearly struggling right now but how much is he to blame?

[Paisley Hibby]

Sorry, but as an infrequent poster who is not prone to knee-jerk reactions (nope I'm not a Jambo!) and having attended ER since 1968, I'm now forced to respond - it's all right saying that continuity is required but ONLY WHEN the right man is in place to take the club forward.

Sorry, but in my opinion Fenlon is not that man, completely out of his depth - his negativity is astounding and, having witnessed Auld and Miller, he is in my opinion the most negative manager in 40 years - whilst he is a likeable bloke, so was Auld, so was Duffy - he is clueless both in terms of player selection and tactics.

I agree that inertia/negativity/lack of investment are issues - STF I'm sure is doing his best - we can surely expect our manager to get more out of the assets at his disposal? Playing this hellish negative formation, with the wrong players in the wrong places, isn't down to RP/STF, it's down to our manager - compare him with other managers and he is definately lacking - the most galling thing is that we had a much more technically astute guy at the club in Derek Adams and let him go! Look at Bucher, Lomas, McNamara, Shiels - all are better than we have!

In short we need to cut our losses, irrespective of the Scottish Cup - so what if we beat Falkirk (and that will take a huge change in the negative mindset at ER!) do we think we can beat Celtic in our current mindset of containment? - nae chance!

We need a return to positivity and real Hibernian values - Fenlon, in my opinion, doesn't get close to these!

Top post. Judging by Fenlon's comments after the game he knows he has failed. Even if we win the cup he should still be fired at the end of the season.

[Mikey]

Sorry, but as an infrequent poster.........

You could say that, seeing as it's your first post in nearly 6 years :greengrin

Welcome in :wink:

[lord bunberry]

Top post. Judging by Fenlon's comments after the game he knows he has failed. Even if we win the cup he should still be fired at the end of the season.

If fenlon wins the cup he won't be fired and neither should he

[Emerald]

Top post. Judging by Fenlon's comments after the game he knows he has failed. Even if we win the cup he should still be fired at the end of the season.

He has failed and if anyone wants another season watching his style of football is to me, baffling. :confused:

Lets try to win games.

[Sir David Gray]

Top post. Judging by Fenlon's comments after the game he knows he has failed. Even if we win the cup he should still be fired at the end of the season.

So if he becomes the first manager to win us the cup since Biblical times, he should still be sacked after that game? :confused:

Is that honestly what you're proposing? :dunno:

If we manage to win the cup, Pat Fenlon will go down as a Hibs legend and we'll possibly need to build a statue of him outside Easter Road as well.

Sacking him off the back of a Scottish Cup victory would just be ridiculous.

[Emerald]

So if he becomes the first manager to win us the cup since Biblical times, he should still be sacked after that game? :confused:

Is that honestly what you're proposing? :dunno:

If we manage to win the cup, Pat Fenlon will go down as a Hibs legend and we'll possibly need to build a statue of him outside Easter Road as well.

Sacking him off the back of a Scottish Cup victory would just be ridiculous.

You are 100% correct but it still wont change the rubbish that will be on offer next season if he is still in charge, or maybe it might? :dunno:

[Paisley Hibby]

So if he becomes the first manager to win us the cup since Biblical times, he should still be sacked after that game? :confused:

Is that honestly what you're proposing? :dunno:

If we manage to win the cup, Pat Fenlon will go down as a Hibs legend and we'll possibly need to build a statue of him outside Easter Road as well.

Sacking him off the back of a Scottish Cup victory would just be ridiculous.

Yes! If we win the cup it will be despite having him as manager.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes! If we win the cup it will be despite having him as manager.

Why not sack him now then if your mind's made up already?

Why wait until the end of the season? :dunno:

[TornadoHibby]

Sorry, but as an infrequent poster who is not prone to knee-jerk reactions (nope I'm not a Jambo!) and having attended ER since 1968, I'm now forced to respond - it's all right saying that continuity is required but ONLY WHEN the right man is in place to take the club forward.

Sorry, but in my opinion Fenlon is not that man, completely out of his depth - his negativity is astounding and, having witnessed Auld and Miller, he is in my opinion the most negative manager in 40 years - whilst he is a likeable bloke, so was Auld, so was Duffy - he is clueless both in terms of player selection and tactics.

I agree that inertia/negativity/lack of investment are issues - STF I'm sure is doing his best - we can surely expect our manager to get more out of the assets at his disposal? Playing this hellish negative formation, with the wrong players in the wrong places, isn't down to RP/STF, it's down to our manager - compare him with other managers and he is definately lacking - the most galling thing is that we had a much more technically astute guy at the club in Derek Adams and let him go! Look at Bucher, Lomas, McNamara, Shiels - all are better than we have!

In short we need to cut our losses, irrespective of the Scottish Cup - so what if we beat Falkirk (and that will take a huge change in the negative mindset at ER!) do we think we can beat Celtic in our current mindset of containment? - nae chance!

We need a return to positivity and real Hibernian values - Fenlon, in my opinion, doesn't get close to these!

Walter, that's not you finally positing about your beloved Hibs after such a long time is it? :wink:

[Onion]

I'm not just talking about Pat and the board. I throw in the players and the fans as well.

The sad fact is that players who don't give a toss, just walk away at the end of their time. Do you think any/many of those that played for Hibs in the SC Final and no longer with the club give a moments thought to that day or what they've left behind ?

As for Hibs fans, you can only kick a dog so often. Not sure what the average age of regular Hibs supporters is but suspect it'll be around late 30s/early 40s which means they've already had 30+ years of being kicked in the nuts. Forget being confident.... it's actually astonishing that so many still choose to follow Hibs.

[Onion]

Yes! If we win the cup it will be despite having him as manager.

Wow.

[IanM]

negativity is going through the whole team and Fenlon's post match comments centre on trying to lift the squad but him, himself seems to lack belief at the moment.

i'm not taking his comments into context but he was quoted saying

"We owe our supporters after last year's disaster in the cup final. We owe them another day to get back there and say 'can we put that right?'"

surely the message should have been

"We owe our supporters after last year's disaster in the cup final. We owe them another day to get back there and say ' WE CAN put that right!'"

[The Harp Awakes]

The biggest factor in this seasons form slump is undoubtedly a poor January transfer window. Everyone could see that the team needed freshening up but the last minute loan signing of Matt Done was an act of desperation. It looked an underwhelming signing at the time which it has proven to be.

I have some sympathy for Fenlon. Most Hibs fans thought Scott Robertson was a decent signing but he has not delivered so far. I also wonder what kind of money Fenlon had to spend on wages in January. It looks to me that he had 2 hands tied behind his back. I'm not sure if Hibs tried to sign McFadden on loan. The boost he has given Motherwell is there for everyone to see. We need to speculate to accumulate.

One thing is for sure, if we get rid of another Manager now it will be suicidal. We need some stability at the Club. I think Fenlon knows our failings and is trying desperately to put things right but it isn't going to be sorted in 1 or 2 seasons.

One thing I find particularly worrying is Doyle's transfer to Chesterfield and not in terms of his ability and performances which were inconsistent. Hibs apparently offered him a contract 5 weeks ago but the fact that he's opted to go to a mediocre English 2nd division club is either a reflection on the respective offers on the table or on Hibs as a Club and maybe both. The fact we offered Doyle a contract suggests we wanted to keep him but if we can't compete with the likes of Chesterfield then we are in trouble.

[Paisley Hibby]

Why not sack him now then if your mind's made up already?

Why wait until the end of the season? :dunno:

Because we don't have time to get anyone else in before the semi - but if he loses that then yes, he should be sacked straight away. If we somehow win the semi then I would be happy for Hibs to get someone else in before the final.

Nothing against Fenlon as a person - I'm sure he is a decent guy. But he's way way out of his depth.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

the Hibs hotseat is fast becoming similar to the Scotland situation.

[Paisley Hibby]

negativity is going through the whole team and Fenlon's post match comments centre on trying to lift the squad but him, himself seems to lack belief at the moment.

i'm not taking his comments into context but he was quoted saying

"We owe our supporters after last year's disaster in the cup final. We owe them another day to get back there and say 'can we put that right?'"

surely the message should have been

"We owe our supporters after last year's disaster in the cup final. We owe them another day to get back there and say ' WE CAN put that right!'"

Very good point. You're right, the language he uses tells us load about his frame of mind and, therefore, of the whole team. FWIW I think he should have said 'we WILL put that right'.

[hibs4thecup1988]

I find it hilarious that some people think he will be sacked if we win the cup. Absolutely no chance, and sorry, even if we don't win the cup he won't be sacked
Imho the season as a whole has been progress. What would have happened if the first 16 games had brought the table posted previously then we still ended up like this?

As someone else has pointed out earlier the two horrific referee decisions against united and hearts have cost us. Excuses? Yes...realism? Yes.

Roll on next week when if we win this place will seem night and day compared to now.

[Aubenas]

One thing I find particularly worrying is Doyle's transfer to Chesterfield and not in terms of his ability and performances which were inconsistent. Hibs apparently offered him a contract 5 weeks ago but the fact that he's opted to go to a mediocre English 2nd division club is either a reflection on the respective offers on the table or on Hibs as a Club and maybe both.

It's more likely due to the fact that Paul Cook at Chesterfield was Doyler's manager at Sligo Rovers. He's not been playing here and Cook may have guaranteed a starting place. :dunno::dunno:

[JimBHibees]

It's more likely due to the fact that Paul Cook at Chesterfield was Doyler's manager at Sligo Rovers. He's not been playing here and Cook may have guaranteed a starting place. :dunno::dunno:

No doubt that was a key reason.

[ahibby]

This myth that we haven't improved is extremely frustrating. If you compare the team now, to the team of last season, you can see we have made a vast improvement.

Brown - Williams

Kujabi - McGivern
McPake - McPake
Hanlon - Hanlon
Doherty - Clancy

Soares - Harris
Osbourne - Thomson
Last Seasons Claros - This Seasons Claros
Stevenson - Cairney

Griffiths - Griffiths
O'Connor - Doyle

If there is no improvement there then god save us! We have gone from relegation contenders to a challenge for the top 6. If we weren't robbed off the 4 points v Hearts and Dundee Utd recently, then we'd be sitting in 6th place and everything would be all well and good.

The last few weeks have been just as disappointing for me as they have for anyone, but there is no point in going into doom and gloom mode. We have a First Division team in our way from another shot at winning the cup! This time in 1 month in a half, Hibs could be parading the Scottish Cup!

Fenlon has improved our team and as long as we see another season of steady improvement then it's fine by me. I highly doubt there would be so many doom and gloomers if we had been around 6th place for the whole season, it has been the drop in form that has caused that.

We have a semi final in 6 days time remember, another trip to Hampden.

:pfgwa

The problem is if you take away Dundee FC who were brought in to the SPL at the last minute ill prepared, then we would be in a relegation battle. Going by our recent performances and considering that Hearts and Dundee have recently shown signs of improvement, while Aberdeen now have McInness, we will toil in our last five games. We will be lucky to pick up three points. Recent games have shown that we are one of the worst teams in the SPL as things stand. Yes the club as a whole has a bad record over recent years but this management/coaching team do not have the talent required. The board needs to get wiser with it's appointments. For me it's only a matter of time and possibly during the closed season until we agree to part company with them.

[Up The Bracket]

The problem is if you take away Dundee FC who were brought in to the SPL at the last minute ill prepared, then we would be in a relegation battle. Going by our recent performances and considering that Hearts and Dundee have recently shown signs of improvement, while Aberdeen now have McInness, we will toil in our last five games. We will be lucky to pick up three points. Recent games have shown that we are one of the worst teams in the SPL as things stand. Yes the club as a whole has a bad record over recent years but this management/coaching team do not have the talent required. The board needs to get wiser with it's appointments. For me it's only a matter of time and possibly during the closed season until we agree to part company with them.

Last seasons Dunfermline were every bit as bad as this seasons Dundee, if we hadn't improved it'd have been exactly the same as last season. If we beat Falkirk, I honestly couldn't care less whether we come 7th or 11th, the cup is all that matters now.

[gegs70]

This myth that we haven't improved is extremely frustrating. If you compare the team now, to the team of last season, you can see we have made a vast improvement.

Brown - Williams

Kujabi - McGivern
McPake - McPake
Hanlon - Hanlon
Doherty - Clancy

Soares - Harris
Osbourne - Thomson
Last Seasons Claros - This Seasons Claros
Stevenson - Cairney

Griffiths - Griffiths
O'Connor - Doyle

If there is no improvement there then god save us! We have gone from relegation contenders to a challenge for the top 6. If we weren't robbed off the 4 points v Hearts and Dundee Utd recently, then we'd be sitting in 6th place and everything would be all well and good.

The last few weeks have been just as disappointing for me as they have for anyone, but there is no point in going into doom and gloom mode. We have a First Division team in our way from another shot at winning the cup! This time in 1 month in a half, Hibs could be parading the Scottish Cup!

Fenlon has improved our team and as long as we see another season of steady improvement then it's fine by me. I highly doubt there would be so many doom and gloomers if we had been around 6th place for the whole season, it has been the drop in form that has caused that.

We have a semi final in 6 days time remember, another trip to Hampden.

:pfgwa

Thomson, harris are more recent addition in the squad! But its also that we have not greatly improve through the middle of the squad and we only have 1 striker!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If we beat Falkirk, I honestly couldn't care less whether we come 7th or 11th, the cup is all that matters now.

I very much doubt Rod would concur re league placings.

[er75]

I very much doubt Rod would concur re league placings.

personally couldnt agree more. Think its time for Fenlon to go.

[lord bunberry]

Last seasons Dunfermline were every bit as bad as this seasons Dundee, if we hadn't improved it'd have been exactly the same as last season. If we beat Falkirk, I honestly couldn't care less whether we come 7th or 11th, the cup is all that matters now.

I agree, the whole "if dundee weren't as bad we would be fighting relegation" thing is becoming as boring as the "if it wasn't for griffiths" argument. The fact is were not in a relegation battle but some people want to make things out to worse than they are. I keep reading how were going to lose to falkirk and finish 11th. Our league season has turned out to be a failure but were still one of only 4 teams that can win the cup so now is not the time for negativity

[Paisley Hibby]

It's more likely due to the fact that Paul Cook at Chesterfield was Doyler's manager at Sligo Rovers. He's not been playing here and Cook may have guaranteed a starting place. :dunno::dunno:

Hey Aubenas, your post has broken unwritten rule on Hibs Net. Never ever try to end wild speculation by using facts :greengrin

[Andy74]

I agree, the whole "if dundee weren't as bad we would be fighting relegation" thing is becoming as boring as the "if it wasn't for griffiths" argument. The fact is were not in a relegation battle but some people want to make things out to worse than they are. I keep reading how were going to lose to falkirk and finish 11th. Our league season has turned out to be a failure but were still one of only 4 teams that can win the cup so now is not the time for negativity

In a few weeks we could be Scottish Cup winners, in Europe, 7th in league, having just won at Tynie and gone the season unbeaten v Hearts. Not that far fetched really.

[lord bunberry]

In a few weeks we could be Scottish Cup winners, in Europe, 7th in league, having just won at Tynie and gone the season unbeaten v Hearts. Not that far fetched really.

Some people will still want fenlon sacked

[Up The Bracket]

I agree, the whole "if dundee weren't as bad we would be fighting relegation" thing is becoming as boring as the "if it wasn't for griffiths" argument. The fact is were not in a relegation battle but some people want to make things out to worse than they are. I keep reading how were going to lose to falkirk and finish 11th. Our league season has turned out to be a failure but were still one of only 4 teams that can win the cup so now is not the time for negativity

People with the "If it wasn't for Griffiths" argument drive me mad. We had Griffiths last season too, is it too hard to grasp that strikers score more goals when they have better players around them to create more chances?

[Lucius Apuleius]

People with the "If it wasn't for Griffiths" argument drive me mad. We had Griffiths last season too, is it too hard to grasp that strikers score more goals when they have better players around them to create more chances?

:agree: Also the nonsense that if it wasn't for Dundee we would be doomed. last year it was if it wasn't for Dunfermline. What if ma auntie had baws? We play what is in front of us. We cold hardly have taken many less points had it not been Dundee could we?

[Andy74]

In a few weeks we could be Scottish Cup winners, in Europe, 7th in league, having just won at Tynie and gone the season unbeaten v Hearts. Not that far fetched really.

Just one to go!!

[steakbake]

People with the "If it wasn't for Griffiths" argument drive me mad. We had Griffiths last season too, is it too hard to grasp that strikers score more goals when they have better players around them to create more chances?

Agreed.

If it wasn't for Higdon, Motherwell would be...

If it wasn't for McKay, Caley would be...

If it wasn't for Hooper, Celtic would be...

If it wasn't for McGinn, Aberdeen would be...

If it wasn't for Van Persie, Man U would be...

We could play this game all year!

[Stevie Reid]

We have just completed the 13th year of the 38 game SPL. Only five times have we finished with more points than this season - the positive points swing in our favour this year (18 points more than last year) is even bigger than the gap between Williamson's last season, and Mowbray's first (+17).

[steakbake]

We have just completed the 13th year of the 38 game SPL. Only five times have we finished with more points than this season - the positive points swing in our favour this year (18 points more than last year) is even bigger than the gap between Williamson's last season, and Mowbray's first (+17).

St Tony got a DVD out of it. Fenlon gets panned by the ever over-critical Hibs support...

[Vault Boy]

We have just completed the 13th year of the 38 game SPL. Only five times have we finished with more points than this season - the positive points swing in our favour this year (18 points more than last year) is even bigger than the gap between Williamson's last season, and Mowbray's first (+17).

Nowt to do with Fenlon though, he's clueless and we haven't improved at all. :agree:

[danhibees1875]

St Tony got a DVD out of it. Fenlon gets panned by the ever over-critical Hibs support...

While I think we've improved and I like fenlon and what he is doing here I can't agree with that comparison. TM got us to third place and had us playing some of the best and most entertaining football I've ever seen us play.

Pat can get his season DVD next year. :wink:

[patch1875]

[QUOTE=JimBHibees;3559867]No doubt that was a key reason.[/

Its about the wedge they offered him more money,think he may have a child on the way.

[Captain Trips]

I have been and may remain one of his biggest critics however for me the time to discuss his merits and wether he is right man are after final. He is in charge for one of our biggest matches and gets my full 100% backing.

[WestEndHibee]

In a few weeks we could be Scottish Cup winners, in Europe, 7th in league, having just won at Tynie and gone the season unbeaten v Hearts. Not that far fetched really.

:pray: just 1 more pleeeease.

[Eyrie]

While I think we've improved and I like fenlon and what he is doing here I can't agree with that comparison. TM got us to third place and had us playing some of the best and most entertaining football I've ever seen us play.

Pat can get his season DVD next year. :wink:
I think you mean this summer :wink:

[Hibs07p]

In a few weeks we could be Scottish Cup winners, in Europe, 7th in league, having just won at Tynie and gone the season unbeaten v Hearts. Not that far fetched really.

How prophetic.


Just one to go!!

I hope you've not jinxed it now? :greengrin

[JHFC]

Agreed.

If it wasn't for Higdon, Motherwell would be...

If it wasn't for McKay, Caley would be...

If it wasn't for Hooper, Celtic would be...

If it wasn't for McGinn, Aberdeen would be...

If it wasn't for Van Persie, Man U would be...

We could play this game all year!

If it wasn't for Messi, Barca would be...

[CRAZYHIBBY]

If it wasn't for Messi, Barca would be...

Tidy :confused: