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Up The Bracket
31-03-2013, 08:16 PM
So, with some blaming Fenlon now, how long will everyone give him to "prove himself". I don't want him sacked any time soon, I think he's done a decent job considering what we were last season but I'm interested to know what the general consensus is.

I'm saying give him until the end of next season and if we finish in the bottom 6 again, then we need to have a re-think but I'm happy with the progress.

Thoughts?

sleeping giant
31-03-2013, 08:19 PM
Another season for me.

If he bags the cup , he can also sleep with my Wife.

Last Minute
31-03-2013, 08:19 PM
Taxi

Ringothedog
31-03-2013, 08:23 PM
So, with everyone blaming Fenlon now, how long will everyone give him to "prove himself". I don't want him sacked any time soon, I think he's done a decent job considering what we were last season but I'm interested to know what the general consensus is.

I'm saying give him until the end of next season and if we finish in the bottom 6 again, then we need to have a re-think but I'm happy with the progress.

Thoughts?

I really think that this a stupid poll. I think I will start a poll on banning stupid polls.:na na:

Heisenberg
31-03-2013, 08:24 PM
Ill say first 5-10 games of next season. If they go the same way as just now, that'll be me sitting firmly on the side of Fenlon out.

Scouse Hibee
31-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Fenlon IN Poll about him being sacked OUT

Mikey
31-03-2013, 08:27 PM
So, with everyone blaming Fenlon now, how long will everyone give him to "prove himself". I don't want him sacked any time soon, I think he's done a decent job considering what we were last season but I'm interested to know what the general consensus is.

I'm saying give him until the end of next season and if we finish in the bottom 6 again, then we need to have a re-think but I'm happy with the progress.

Thoughts?

Everyone??

Up The Bracket
31-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Fenlon IN Poll about him being sacked OUT

Just trying to get the general consensus of the forum after reading lots of opinions in the other thread, no harm done.


Everyone??

Edited.

IberianHibernian
31-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Don`t think "everyone" is blaming Fenlon . Most of the most critical of him were criticising him before he`d started at Hibs or soon after and appear after every defeat to remind us . He inherited a rotten squad and has had other limits too ( having Martin Scott on wage bill for example ) . IF Petrie decides to change manager though he should do it in summer ( now or 2014 ) since mid season changes rarely work . Personally I`m glad to have him as manager and think he could if given time be remembered as a good or even great Hibernian manager .

Sir David Gray
31-03-2013, 08:33 PM
I would give him at least until the end of the year.

If we're struggling by the time we get to Christmas then we may need to look at various things, not just the manager's position but other positions as well.

Any talk of sacking him now is just ridiculous, in my opinion.

Wotherspiniesta
31-03-2013, 08:34 PM
I'm still backing Fenlon. I think he can take us forward.

What I am sick of is watching countless numbers of Hibs teams falling off midseason. lets be honest, besides Williams Griffiths and perhaps Claros every single one of the rest of them has had a drop in form since about January. It happens every season and I would love to know why.

R'Albin
31-03-2013, 08:35 PM
End of the year for me as well.

I really hope that he intends in getting 3 strikers in the summer. I'm putting his tactical failures down to the fact we have, at the moment, one striker who is good enough to play in the SPL.

Speedy
31-03-2013, 08:39 PM
If similar results continue(i.e. lower mid table) then it would be harsh before the end of next season.

If we're bottom in October/November then he should maybe be punted.

hibee19
31-03-2013, 08:56 PM
If I'd seen anything in him that made me think he could succeed I'd allow him two more seasons to really build. If his contract was done in the summer I wouldnt even consider keeping him.

DH1875
31-03-2013, 09:05 PM
I'm far from a Fenlon supporter but give him at least till the end of the season. If we win the cup then he keeps his job. If we reach the final and lose a close, tight game and finish 7/8 he probably keeps his job. If we make the final, get humped and and finish 8th or less then questions will need answered. IF Falkirk beat us, what then? you lot can back him but not me. He will then have to go in my opinion.

Pretty Boy
31-03-2013, 09:27 PM
He still has my support and will do until the end of the first round of games next season, if things aren't going well then it's his team so he takes the consequences.

I understand we need stability but sticking with the wrong man merely for stabilities sake is folly. Being better than one of our worst ever managers is also not reason enough to keep him in a job.

Fenlon has it all to prove and only he can show whether he's good enough, i'm starting to have my doubts.

hibsbollah
31-03-2013, 09:36 PM
I voted forever. Can i have a 'plan B' though if we lose to Falkirk?

Eyrie
31-03-2013, 09:47 PM
Fenlon has nextseason left on his contract, so he'll either be gone at the AGM or elsehe'll get an extension this time next year. I want it to be the latterbecause that means we're doing better but I wouldn't put money on it.

So I voted “November”.

HUTCHYHIBBY
31-03-2013, 11:03 PM
I'm far from a Fenlon supporter but give him at least till the end of the season. If we win the cup then he keeps his job. If we reach the final and lose a close, tight game and finish 7/8 he probably keeps his job. If we make the final, get humped and and finish 8th or less then questions will need answered. IF Falkirk beat us, what then? you lot can back him but not me. He will then have to go in my opinion.

Sums it up nicely for me.

East Stander
01-04-2013, 07:42 AM
As far as I am concerned Fenlon has had enough time to show that the team are progressing, for me he has failed so far.

He should have been sacked a while ago but it's too late now. If Hearts finish above us at the end of the season then he should definately go at the end of the season, Scottish Cup win or not.

Beefster
01-04-2013, 07:44 AM
If we're mince in the first few months of next season, he'll be gone before the AGM. And it will be another wasted season.

Hibeesmad
01-04-2013, 07:48 AM
I have the feeling he is the right man to take hibs forward over a period of time but I would give him until about november and if we are not in the top 6 then he can go. However look how we were doing in november last year and where we are now...

southsider
01-04-2013, 08:30 AM
There are teams in the SPL with a fraction or our resources but who are better orginized, better coached and who have better players. The buck stops at PF. Did he try to do something different with, say, 10 minutes to go on Saturday such as putting McPake up front and launch high balls up to him ? It may not have worked but it would have been worth trying. Instead Fenlon went into the dug-out and hid. I say sack him now and appoint Martin O'Neill on a short term deal until the end of the season. He may fancy a wee gig up here for a few weeks. I may be in a minority of one but the football under PF is very, very poor.

Leithenhibby
01-04-2013, 08:34 AM
There are teams in the SPL with a fraction or our resources but who are better orginized, better coached and who have better players. The buck stops at PF. Did he try to do something different with, say, 10 minutes to go on Saturday such as putting McPake up front and launch high balls up to him ? It may not have worked but it would have been worth trying. Instead Fenlon went into the dug-out and hid. I say sack him now and appoint Martin O'Neill on a short term deal until the end of the season. He may fancy a wee gig up here for a few weeks. I may be in a minority of one but the football under PF is very, very poor.



:faf::faf:

lucky
01-04-2013, 08:34 AM
Can't believe that 4 hibs fans want the manager sack 2 weeks before SC semi

Northernhibee
01-04-2013, 08:41 AM
Five seasons.
ICT have shown what you can do with continuity. Progress has been slower than what our ridiculously impatient fanbase demanded but decent progress has been made.

I'm more heartened that PF seems to be looking to rebuild the character of the club than looking for another quick fix.

Stevie Reid
01-04-2013, 09:15 AM
I'm still very much behind him, though if we are not comfortably in the top 6 next season (and ideally pushing for second for most of the season) then I will agree that it's time for him to go. I've said this before and I will say it again, if he improves us as much next year as he has this, we will be doing very well indeed.

Of the teams above us outwith Celtic, I certainly accept that Motherwell, ICT and St. Johnstone are better than us - Motherwell and Saints both have managers who took over after the previous incumbent who had done very very and was taken by another club, so both McCall and Lomas inherited good squads who had been performing very well (both have obviously continued the good work). Butcher has been with ICT for 4 years, and kept his job after they were relegated - they finished 10th last year and lost an important player in Jonny Hayes but have built their best ever squad. There were no signs at all that Inverness would improve so much this season (in fact we have 8 points more now than ICT had at the same stage last season), so it just shows what's possible - we have greater resources than them and I would expect that to show next season. In Liam Craig, we have already signed one of the best players from one of the best teams in the league.

It will be hard to take if Killie finish above us (as now looks likely) but again they had a successful manager previously who went elsewhere, so not only has Shiels been in the job for 7 months longer than Fenlon, he inherited a far better squad. Aberdeen's season has been similar to ours, and again they had a better starting point than us, and a manager who had been in the job a year longer than Fenlon. Dundee Utd are in a ridiculous position given that for most of the season their front 3 has been Russell, Daly and Mackay-Steven, and only 3 home wins is awful form - Houston inherited a good squad and won the cup, but the more of Levein's players left, the worse they got, and that's what cost him his job.

Fenlon took over from the worst manager we have ever had, and whilst the league form in the last few months has been disappointing (and the style of play in many games really poor), I am still happy for him to have another summer transfer window to keep building a better squad. Whatever happens between now and the end of the season in the league, he has a much better platform to build on than he did in the summer, so there will be no excuses if he doesn't build from there.

In the last 19 league games our record is W 3 D 7 L 9 which is awful, there is no escaping that - throw in the 3 (very good) SC wins and the record becomes P 22 W 6 D 7 L 9, which looks like less of a collapse. The importance of the SC should not be underestimated in terms of the boost that getting to another final would give us, both in a footballing sense and financially. If we were to lose the semi to Falkirk I wouldn't want him sacked nor do I think Petrie would want to, but such a massive loss coupled with a bottom 6 finish (after being top half for most of the campaign) may well prove too much for many, and poor ST sales may force his hand as it seemed to after Mixu's first full season.

However, the players who are still here from last year and Fenlon himself owe us a win and performance at Hampden, so hopefully we will get it against Falkirk. The decline in our home form in the last few months has been the biggest factor in our falling down the league, so hopefully being away from ER but still playing in front of a big Hibs support will help the players. It's been a frustrating season but in the 3 cup wins - including that win against Hearts - and that great win at home against Celtic, we have had more special moments this season than we have had for several years. Hopefully we can have a couple more before the end of the season.

Viva_Palmeiras
01-04-2013, 09:20 AM
Save the pitch forks - the dons fans have only dropped them temporarily.

Beefster
01-04-2013, 09:34 AM
Five seasons.
ICT have shown what you can do with continuity. Progress has been slower than what our ridiculously impatient fanbase demanded but decent progress has been made.

I'm more heartened that PF seems to be looking to rebuild the character of the club than looking for another quick fix.

Terry Butcher has outperformed ICT's resources every single SPL season he's been there. There is no comparison with Fenlon.

As Matty F has already said or implied, Ian Murray's performance at relegation-threatened Dumbarton and Adam's performance at Ross County has pished all over the 'he just needs time and it will all be magic' argument. Manager's have to earn the right to time.

Stevie Reid
01-04-2013, 09:39 AM
Terry Butcher has outperformed ICT's resources every single SPL season he's been there. There is no comparison with Fenlon.

Inverness were relegated from the SPL after Butcher took over. His SPL record with Caley is: -

12th
7th
10th

Which doesn't really back up your point, though they are doing superbly well this year. If anything though, they are a lesson in what can happen if you stick with a manager even when it may seem like you are going backwards.

Butcher also led Motherwell to 12th in the SPL. He is a good manager now but he has made many mistakes in the past.

Northernhibee
01-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Terry Butcher has outperformed ICT's resources every single SPL season he's been there. There is no comparison with Fenlon.

As Matty F has already said or implied, Ian Murray's performance at relegation-threatened Dumbarton and Adam's performance at Ross County has pished all over the 'he just needs time and it will all be magic' argument. Manager's have to earn the right to time.

Another trip to Hampden and a greater points total than last season already. Key targets didn't want to sign for us because of instability at our club. He's done a solid if unspectacular job this season. He's earned time.

We have no god given right to expect immediate success after the way Yogi and CC decimated us.

Skanko79
01-04-2013, 09:51 AM
End of the season for me. I'm not ready to accept that we should be in the position we are, the players he has brought in really arent cutting the mustard for me and we have no fight or passion.

I'm not looking forward to the semi either. We are facing a young, up for it Falkirk side who could do us damage if they sneak a goal early doors.

southsider
01-04-2013, 09:53 AM
Ok, we can agree to disagree about PF but there are one or two changes that just might improve the quality of the football played at ER. Get Tam McCourt back looking after the pitch rather that the kit. I know the weather has been really bad but with hard work and a little tlc(as before) we may get players to pass the ball to a team mate rather to the stands, without bobblig all over the place. Practice, practice and practice some more. Get the players on the training pitch and do set plays. Corners, a variation please Pat. LG strikes a wonderful ball but mix it up a little to keep other teams guessing. At throw in's we are the worst in the SPL, we may as well just give them back the ball, little or no movement from our players. It can be so hard to take a shy can it /

HFC 0-7
01-04-2013, 09:54 AM
Not really sure where this he needs a few seasons ala butcher is coming from. If we don't get into top 6 then Fenlon has failed against his own target and the targets set by the club. The club wouldn't bring a manager in to a club like hibs and be ok with failing to reach top 6.

i think he should be give a bit more time but alarm bells are ringing for me with him. Should he get the boot the best time would be at the end of a season so the new manager gets a full summer window to bring players in, sackng managers near the start of the season basically writes that season off as he is ' managing someone else's squad'

Northernhibee
01-04-2013, 10:38 AM
Not really sure where this he needs a few seasons ala butcher is coming from. If we don't get into top 6 then Fenlon has failed against his own target and the targets set by the club. The club wouldn't bring a manager in to a club like hibs and be ok with failing to reach top 6.

i think he should be give a bit more time but alarm bells are ringing for me with him. Should he get the boot the best time would be at the end of a season so the new manager gets a full summer window to bring players in, sackng managers near the start of the season basically writes that season off as he is ' managing someone else's squad'

So if the goal v Hearts was given and the incorrect penalty vs Dundee United wasn't given you'd be saying "He's done well, he's met his target?". We'd be sitting comfortably top six right now if they had been given correctly.

Beefster
01-04-2013, 12:54 PM
Another trip to Hampden and a greater points total than last season already. Key targets didn't want to sign for us because of instability at our club. He's done a solid if unspectacular job this season. He's earned time.

We have no god given right to expect immediate success after the way Yogi and CC decimated us.

What key targets knocked us back because of the 'instability'?

How did Yogi 'decimate' us?

Beefster
01-04-2013, 01:02 PM
Inverness were relegated from the SPL after Butcher took over. His SPL record with Caley is: -

12th
7th
10th

Which doesn't really back up your point, though they are doing superbly well this year. If anything though, they are a lesson in what can happen if you stick with a manager even when it may seem like you are going backwards.

Butcher also led Motherwell to 12th in the SPL. He is a good manager now but he has made many mistakes in the past.

He took over ICT at the beginning of February in the season that they were relegated and were adrift at the bottom of the table. He made a pretty big difference almost immediately. They only blew it by losing to Falkirk on the last day.

Barring Ross County this season, they have the lowest average crowd in the SPL. Every season that they don't get relegated, they're out-performing their resources.

PS. I'm not advocating appointing Butcher. Just trying to disprove the 'you need 3/5 years to improve a team' argument. Folk have done it much better than me already though.

Stevie Reid
01-04-2013, 01:21 PM
He took over ICT at the beginning of February in the season that they were relegated and were adrift at the bottom of the table. He made a pretty big difference almost immediately. They only blew it by losing to Falkirk on the last day.

Barring Ross County this season, they have the lowest average crowd in the SPL. Every season that they don't get relegated, they're out-performing their resources.

PS. I'm not advocating appointing Butcher. Just trying to disprove the 'you need 3/5 years to improve a team' argument. Folk have done it much better than me already though.

I had a whole reply typed out and then saw the last bit :greengrin

I agree that they certainly punch well above their weight in the SPL (which they have in every season apart from when Butcher took over in 2009 and were relegated - but with the highest ever points total for a relegated team).

They went down under Butcher and they stuck by him, and he got them back up and then led them to 7th place - they then finished three places lower last year but stayed with him, and now they are having the season of their lives. Butcher has brought in a lot of new players this season so have may not have needed 4 years to build a team, but he has had that time to build a club ethos, togetherness in his squad, and obviously a host of excellent contacts which he has used very well with the great signings he has made.

I'm certainly not happy with where we are but as I detailed in a longer post earlier in this thread, I think Fenlon deserves more time - though I expect big improvements next season. There were no signs at all that ICT would go from 10th last season to where they are now, so anything can happen.

HFC 0-7
01-04-2013, 01:50 PM
So if the goal v Hearts was given and the incorrect penalty vs Dundee United wasn't given you'd be saying "He's done well, he's met his target?". We'd be sitting comfortably top six right now if they had been given correctly.


Although I think they were shocking decisions, we have had the rub of the green in the early part of the season. Other teams have had bad decisions, look at yesterday's game, there was a couple of bad decisions in that game for both sides alone. Who is to say that if those decisions went pir way in those games the oppositions wouldnt have gone straight up the other end of the pitch and scored? Fenlons target he gave himself was top 6. The boards target is challenging for European spots EVERY season and latter stages of cups. We have achieved the latter stages of the cup and that's it.

We can't get hung up on 2 bad decisions throughout the best part of a season. I am sure some other teams could say the same thing or say if that player had scored that easy opportunity etc etc. the reason we are probably not going to make top 6 is that we haven't played well enough in our games.

Northernhibee
01-04-2013, 04:03 PM
Although I think they were shocking decisions, we have had the rub of the green in the early part of the season. Other teams have had bad decisions, look at yesterday's game, there was a couple of bad decisions in that game for both sides alone. Who is to say that if those decisions went pir way in those games the oppositions wouldnt have gone straight up the other end of the pitch and scored? Fenlons target he gave himself was top 6. The boards target is challenging for European spots EVERY season and latter stages of cups. We have achieved the latter stages of the cup and that's it.

We can't get hung up on 2 bad decisions throughout the best part of a season. I am sure some other teams could say the same thing or say if that player had scored that easy opportunity etc etc. the reason we are probably not going to make top 6 is that we haven't played well enough in our games.

What about the added momentum of two wins on the trot away to Dundee United and at home in the derby? Put it any way you want it, those two decisions would have seen us comfortably top six. Which is what most peoples criteria on here have been in regards to what would have been a success.

Rebuilding Hibs will be a slow and steady build. There's no point going for a quick fix. Think of last season; Hayes turned us down, Rae turned us down, am I going mad in thinking that Goodwin turned us down? Either way, these are all seasoned SPL veterans that were heavily rumoured to be coming to us but chose to go elsewhere.

This season has seen us start to get stability in. We've had Roberston come in (proven SPL player) and we're seeing the likes of Liam Craig come in next season and as heavily rumoured, Ryan O'Leary. Pat's now in a position where over the next two transfer windows we'll be able to attract proven SPL players and also see how his new scouting system works out.

We've got a much more stable platform to build on for next year and as such I'd call 12/13 a success and real tangible, especially if we go on to the final or better in the Scottish cup.

Truth be told I think that we're just too impatient and demanding as Hibs fans; maybe Yogi had a point back then when he was castigated for that (but he did bring in total ***** players).

Keith_M
01-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Fenlon has nextseason left on his contract....




That's good enough for me. I think he should be given one more full season to see both what he can do and whether the board back his summer rebuilding.

HUTCHYHIBBY
01-04-2013, 05:07 PM
We've got a much more stable platform to build on for next year and as such I'd call 12/13 a success and real tangible, especially if we go on to the final or better in the Scottish cup.

That could be part of the problem, particularly if people within the club were to share that view.

Broken Gnome
01-04-2013, 05:17 PM
You could easily say the games against Hearts this season typify where Hibs are and what our ambitions were. Ugly with passable results, with gameplans that are really a symptom of last year's horrors against them.

Overall, everyone wanted Hibs to be much harder to beat, and by and large this has been the case up until March. Fenlon's assembled what on paper is a solid enough side with little to excite on a consistent basis. We definitely should be top 6 and the league has been a failure ultimately, but he'll get away with that if his summer transfers lead to a better style of play next season - especially with a good result at Hampden to look back on. If this season can be reviewed as a necessary evil where we've got a platform for a bit more football next year, he'll be ok. More of the same and he could be gone as the crowds start to drift again by the start of 2014.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2013, 05:53 PM
That could be part of the problem, particularly if people within the club were to share that view.

:agree:

2012/2013 so far has been a complete failure, both in league and league cup. We have the chance to make it a success though. :worried:

Captain Trips
01-04-2013, 05:59 PM
PF to me looks like tactically and style wise as if he has just taken over the team that wekk and doesnt know what style or tactics that work, he should be well past the tactics being looked at we should now just be looking at what players to sign not a whole host of other aspects on top of that.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2013, 06:04 PM
PF to me looks like tactically and style wise as if he has just taken over the team that wekk and doesnt know what style or tactics that work, he should be well past the tactics being looked at we should now just be looking at what players to sign not a whole host of other aspects on top of that.

We are stuck with a 4-5-1 formation because of him bringing in umpteen midfielders and no forwards. I'm not counting Kuqi.

Heisenberg
01-04-2013, 06:05 PM
PF to me looks like tactically and style wise as if he has just taken over the team that wekk and doesnt know what style or tactics that work, he should be well past the tactics being looked at we should now just be looking at what players to sign not a whole host of other aspects on top of that.

In my view Fenlon has run out of ideas a bit when it comes to the tactical side. We started with 4-2-3-1 which was quickly blown out the water after a 3-0 pumping away to Utd. We change to a 4-4-2, start playing some nice stuff and start picking up points. This gets found out and he's looked lost ever since. Saturday was a prime example. We played 4-3-3 but then most of the time it looked like Doyle was up top in a two with Harris and Taiwo out wide which is pretty ridiculous. Needs a new plan but I'm starting to worry if he's got another one in place.

truehibernian
01-04-2013, 06:25 PM
I'm certainly not an admirer of the football on show at present but I'm willing to let Pat have a few more windows, get the scouting network really established, and see better use of the youth set up - before even thinking about sacking him.

We are on the verge of another trip to a cup final - certainly have another trip to Hampden to look forward to in the semi. The league form has been devastatingly bad - but again, with a couple of better refereeing decisons we'd be top 6 and looking down the way. It's the brand of football that needs addressed in summer for me.

The team has always lacked searing pace up front - and an honest, hard working physical threat. The midfield needs a creator or two. And unless he wants to give the young lads a chance at full back, the right and left back slots need urgently taken care of too.

The football has been industrial - you cannot fault the guys' workrates or indeed the energy they put in - I do question overall fitness, but this season has seen a return to good old fashioned heart. Injuries to key defenders have been damaging too - the defensive unit has seen far too many combinations, through no fault of Pat. But if we suffer injuries there, there are no creative midfielders willing to drive forward and relieve the pressure on a foursome that will be targeted by opposition managers - especially the full backs.

We are looking at a defence next season consisting of Williams, Clancy, McPake and Hanlon as first picks as we stand - therefore we need two full backs on each flank (assuming also the likes of Scott Smith comes back from loan). I'd love McGivern permanently but can't see us getting him.

Midfield, we have Craig, Robertson, Taiwo, Cairney - I'd love KT permanently and a couple of really dynamic midfielders - in the Nicky Law type role. Unafraid to get forward and drive the team on. Equally I'd like a player who sits alongside KT - Claros will be gone, but as much as Jorge does the hard work, his passing for me at times has me kicking my seat in frustration (I know I'll be in the minority there - but for me I do think he is a little over-rated by Pat).

Up top is where I want to really hurt teams next year - two lightening quick wingers and Lyle Taylor - who as well as physical presence has pace. Getting Leigh would be a godsend, but Danny Handling is a great striker - please Pat, play him as one eh ?

Another two years for me - four windows, scouts working hard, and youngsters encouraged to come to Hibs because they'll get a serious chance. And Rod to step aside with humility and hand it over to a fresh, energetic individual - has to come from the top too - and it's stale up there now.

Heisenberg
01-04-2013, 06:27 PM
Lyle Taylor would be a fantastic addition next season, don't know if we'd pay what Falkirk would want for him though.

steviej147
01-04-2013, 06:37 PM
i voted for end off next season.as i see it fenlon is taking the backlash for the team not performing and i think he should be given more time to see what he brings in next season.also id get shot of mcpake hes supposed to be our captain and strong in defence but on saturday for both goals the defence was missing.:pfgwa

truehibernian
01-04-2013, 06:38 PM
Lyle Taylor would be a fantastic addition next season, don't know if we'd pay what Falkirk would want for him though.

We offered cash and player(s) in January I'm told - but it showed me how serious Rod and Hibs were about top 6 that we never shelled out the cash. Falkirk I don't believe held Hibs to ransom - they need cash as much as any club down there.

Chances are however that seeing as his scoring streak hasn't abated, he'll be off to Championship/League 1 next season - I think we missed a trick.

The other lad I'd like to see Hibs make a serious bid for is Tidser at Morton - kind of hoping Partick win the title and come up so that it makes it easier to perhaps get him. I know another SPL club not too far away is looking at him !

TomoHFC
01-04-2013, 07:36 PM
give him until the end of the season then decide if he should stay or no

Scouse Hibee
01-04-2013, 07:42 PM
Let him finish the job he has started.

Mikeystewart
01-04-2013, 07:52 PM
sorry if this stat has been mentioned.

last 10 games
Hibs have picked up 8/30 points 1W 5D 4L
Hearts have picked up 8/30 points 2W 2D 6L
Dundee have picked up 7/30 points 1W 4D 5L

Captain Trips
01-04-2013, 08:12 PM
We are stuck with a 4-5-1 formation because of him bringing in umpteen midfielders and no forwards. I'm not counting Kuqi.

I just feel every game now is like day 1.

mrdependable
01-04-2013, 08:31 PM
Im inclined to give him to the end of next season but at the end of this season id be asking him some serious questions about where we can improve in style of play, using young players, use of east mains etc. Throwing money at the team is unrealistic so we need to make the most of what we have

BoltonHibee
01-04-2013, 09:01 PM
**** him off at the end of the season, or after the semi if we lose.

Craig_in_Prague
02-04-2013, 01:36 PM
I believe the cup has cut him some slack (and CC days are not quite wiped from our memories), but it will be interesting to see how fans patience with him will be, 'If' (and I expect) Falkirk beat us.

In fact I'm not even sure another cup final humping, will be a good thing either,

so all in all, unless we win the SC (ha-bloddy-ha), I can only see fans growing restless and becoming fed up with Fenlon.

then we'll miss out on main summer targets, start the new season with same-old issues & we'll sack him and have another season with a manager taking over another mans team.

OK, the last piece is a guess, but it wouldn't surprise me.

joe breezy
02-04-2013, 01:40 PM
Five seasons.
ICT have shown what you can do with continuity. Progress has been slower than what our ridiculously impatient fanbase demanded but decent progress has been made.

I'm more heartened that PF seems to be looking to rebuild the character of the club than looking for another quick fix.

Yep, football fans are thick and fickle

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
If we start next season playing one up front and lumping the ball from the back, then i'd say the end of August. Fenlon needs to realise Hibs fans don't expect to win the league, but more of them will turn up if we look like they are giving us some entertaining performances.

truehibernian
02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
I don't think the board have any intention nor inclination to sack Fenlon mate - crowds are up (albeit small rise) and the side have improved on last season - I think he'll be given another couple of seasons at least. Summer windows are the most crucial in any rebuild - he's had one and I think he deserves another two personally.

Baker9
02-04-2013, 01:50 PM
End of next season for me. There has been something far wrong with our club for years now and some form of stability is needed. Revolving door of directors, revolving door of managers, revolving door of players - one common denominator throughout it all who is not capable of managing people. There needs to be a change at the very top - sorry, Rod - Honorary President and keep out of it.

Hibernia Na Eir
02-04-2013, 01:57 PM
does the OP think they're some kind of director??
pest.

Craig_in_Prague
02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
If we start next season playing one up front and lumping the ball from the back, then i'd say the end of August. Fenlon needs to realise Hibs fans don't expect to win the league, but more of them will turn up if we look like they are giving us some entertaining performances.

don't you know, it takes 5 years to get a half decent side resembling a football team on the park?

lol

We used to be worried about losing a good manager or player in this sport within 2 years at the club, now apparently it takes double that (and maybe more) to have a reasonable team put out.....

East Stander
02-04-2013, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure that I understand the logic of those selecting 'Next Season' or 'Longer', surely there won't be a single poster on here who would not want Fenlon replaced come the AGM if we are bottom of the league & playing the same way as we currently do. :confused:

Is there?

Bristolhibby
02-04-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm still backing Fenlon. I think he can take us forward.

What I am sick of is watching countless numbers of Hibs teams falling off midseason. lets be honest, besides Williams Griffiths and perhaps Claros every single one of the rest of them has had a drop in form since about January. It happens every season and I would love to know why.


It is unbelievable how often it happens.

Mowbury
Hughes
Calderwood (Basically crap all season)
Now Fenlon

WTF?

Do players just get ****ed? Why doesent it happen at ICT, Ross County, St Johnstone or Motherwell, who all seem to finish with a flourish.

Danger is the Yams will be hot on our heels. Good thing is they are ****ter than us.

J

southsider
02-04-2013, 02:39 PM
It paines me to say this but i do not think Pat can get us past Falkirk and into the Final. Tin-tack time and get someone in with fresh idea's and motivating skills. Martin O'N ? Pat N ? Owen C ? Murdo ? You pays your money and takes your pick.

The_Horde
02-04-2013, 02:45 PM
Pat is more than capable of getting us into the final. He got us there last year with a far worse squad than he has now. Overnight success brigade are out in force eh?

Stevie Reid
02-04-2013, 02:54 PM
It paines me to say this but i do not think Pat can get us past Falkirk and into the Final. Tin-tack time and get someone in with fresh idea's and motivating skills. Martin O'N ? Pat N ? Owen C ? Murdo ? You pays your money and takes your pick.

Fenlon may not turn out to be the answer long term but I fail to see how you can categorically state that he cannot lead us past Falkirk. We got past an Aberdeen team who were 9 points above us in league in last year's semi, with a much worse team.

Lucius Apuleius
02-04-2013, 03:07 PM
I certainly expect to see afew on here eating humble pie after the semi.

Aldo
02-04-2013, 03:08 PM
I am more than happy to persevere with PF in the long term. Continuity is what we need not changing a manager cos a poll in the .net says so ( there's in idea NOT)

Lets just get behind him and the team. Especially a week on Sat and show them how much the club means to us all.

GG

Beefster
02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
Yep, football fans are thick and fickle

I would have thought someone from Essex would be against sweeping generalisations that are complete pish. Evidently not.

Weir7
02-04-2013, 03:50 PM
I certainly expect to see afew on here eating humble pie after the semi.

Why - beating Falkirk don't make you a good manager.

SmokieJoe
02-04-2013, 03:56 PM
I'd like to see him at ER for a few years yet, he still has some players to get rid of that aren't even on the bench, he will, i'm sure do that in the summer. LG's contract with Wolves is up at the end the season, they have a year extension clause, who knows if they'll envoke it. It would certainly be easier to attract better players if we have LG in our squad, than not.

As for PF, apart from the usual seasons worth of shan referees decisions, we are higher in the league, we are playing better football, all be it in patches/odd games, the squad has improved overall, have they not?

He also made household changes to the running and layout of East Mains before the beggining of the season, shoul we all jump on the bandwagon 'Fenlon Must Go' yes because another manager change in or arround the 18 month timeframe would just be the ideal thing to happen to make our club more stable, aye right then.


Give him time, if things go pear shaped, then yes get rid, but we are improving as a club, slow but steady i admit, but progress none the less.

Stevie Reid
02-04-2013, 03:56 PM
Why - beating Falkirk don't make you a good manager.

Not in itself, but four Hampden visits in 13 months would be worthy of praise, surely.

Paisley Hibby
02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
If I'd seen anything in him that made me think he could succeed I'd allow him two more seasons to really build. If his contract was done in the summer I wouldnt even consider keeping him.

Top post :aok:

Lucius Apuleius
02-04-2013, 04:04 PM
Why - beating Falkirk don't make you a good manager.

Never said it did. However so many on here saying we are beaten before we even start.

Andy74
02-04-2013, 04:07 PM
Why - beating Falkirk don't make you a good manager.

Getting a Hibs team to successive Scottish Cup finals. Happens all the time.

Beefster
02-04-2013, 04:50 PM
Getting a Hibs team to successive Scottish Cup finals. Happens all the time.

It would be an achievement and, taken with other things, it could be an indicator of a good manager.

It needs to be done alongside getting a team performing, at least, to its potential, being able to change games when they're not going to plan, getting maximum value out of the money available and various other things though.

bigwheel
02-04-2013, 05:25 PM
Does anyone think Fenlon will get a bigger job than Hibs in his career ? I like him and hope he stays and secures some progress ...but regardless I can't see him
Moving up in his career ...I think this is his biggest job ...

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2013, 05:27 PM
Getting a Hibs team to successive Scottish Cup finals. Happens all the time.

No it doesn't Andy, but you know what does happen all the time? Sheite football from February onwards, except recently it was most of the last season and started in November this one.

Fenlons football at the start of this season was a lot better than we'd seen for a while, but his team have slumped into an awful team to watch, and it is his team, a team flooded with midfielders all very similar. One centre forward to speak of, something he should have done something about.

He gets more time in my opinion because of the early form, but if we are lumping it up the park next season to one forward, he can go for me.

3pm
02-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Yes, Blackpool is coming back to sit with the Doom and Gloomers!

That happy **** never suited you.

ggth
02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
So, with some blaming Fenlon now, how long will everyone give him to "prove himself". I don't want him sacked any time soon, I think he's done a decent job considering what we were last season but I'm interested to know what the general consensus is.

I'm saying give him until the end of next season and if we finish in the bottom 6 again, then we need to have a re-think but I'm happy with the progress.

Thoughts?


If falkirk beat us, I reckon he will get the boot then

.Sean.
02-04-2013, 05:53 PM
If we lose the semi he should be sacked.

bigwheel
02-04-2013, 06:03 PM
If we lose the semi he should be sacked.

I'm guessing people with that view really want him gone now...one game can't be such a determining factor...what if we get a man sent off ? Or a good "goal" chalked off ..

Neither should winning the semi guarantee him a job...

He should be judged on his performance against objectives . If his goal was top 6 this year, then he has failed That one . I suspect another goal was to do well in one of the cups. He still has a chance of that one.

His score card is weakening . The teams performance in the last 6 league games will be key. If we don't pick up decent results then I suspect he won't be here. If he does well in those , I expect him there for next season ..

Scouse Hibee
02-04-2013, 06:18 PM
I want to see continuity and a manager actually being allowed a couple of full seasons to make a difference. It's alright saying he has made some bad signings but that's the chance you take when you shop in the market we are in. They can't all turn out to be great players and be an immediate success in a system the manager believes in. Plenty of fans were happy with the signings and excited about their arrival with the same expectations of how they could improve the side as Fenlon probably had. The football is dire at the moment and it's easy to think the answer is to change manager yet again, we then have another period of a new manager rebuilding and the same old story. I hope we tough it out and let Fenlon continue with his work until at least the end of his contract.

.Sean.
02-04-2013, 06:23 PM
I'm guessing people with that view really want him gone now...one game can't be such a determining factor...what if we get a man sent off ? Or a good "goal" chalked off ..

Neither should winning the semi guarantee him a job...

He should be judged on his performance against objectives . If his goal was top 6 this year, then he has failed That one . I suspect another goal was to do well in one of the cups. He still has a chance of that one.

His score card is weakening . The teams performance in the last 6 league games will be key. If we don't pick up decent results then I suspect he won't be here. If he does well in those , I expect him there for next season ..
My view is that it's his team and they should be in the top 6 so the buck stops with him for failing to achieve this. A semi defeat to an average 1st Division side would be an embarrassment and after the league cup debacle the season would be deemed a total failure in my eyes.

BoltonHibee
02-04-2013, 06:23 PM
Yes, Blackpool is coming back to sit with the Doom and Gloomers!

That happy **** never suited you.

He did have us very worried for a while.

Captain Trips
02-04-2013, 06:27 PM
Yes, Blackpool is coming back to sit with the Doom and Gloomers!

That happy **** never suited you.

Indeed I have been waiting for him here, come on back in you know it makes sense BH :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
02-04-2013, 06:33 PM
Yes, Blackpool is coming back to sit with the Doom and Gloomers!

That happy **** never suited you.


He did have us very worried for a while.


Indeed I have been waiting for him here, come on back in you know it makes sense BH :greengrin

Very funny children, but Fenlon deserves a chance to become a Hibernian Legend, and we should all be behind him 100% at the moment.

He also deserves the chance to turn this slump around next season, saying that should we lose the semi i know this place and others will melt, and he might not survive the fallout?

BoltonHibee
02-04-2013, 06:38 PM
Very funny children, but Fenlon deserves a chance to become a Hibernian Legend, and we should all be behind him 100% at the moment.

He also deserves the chance to turn this slump around next season, saying that should we lose the semi i know this place and others will melt, and he might not survive the fallout?

Come on, don't be wavering. Take your rightful place at the top table and enjoy feasting on Petrie and Fenlon

Vault Boy
02-04-2013, 06:44 PM
Glad to see so many have voted end of next season or longer, it seemed like everyone had turned on him recently. He's improved us, made some good signings and there is potential there for more improvement, something nearly every manager since Collins had failed to deliver. I definitely want Fenlon to be given more time and backing, and not just because 'we can't keep sacking managers.'

Weir7
02-04-2013, 06:47 PM
Getting a Hibs team to successive Scottish Cup finals. Happens all the time.
I judge managers what they do in the league. Lucky teams can win cups. Good teams win leagues.

3pm
02-04-2013, 06:48 PM
Come on, don't be wavering. Take your rightful place at the top table and enjoy feasting on Petrie and Fenlon

Exactly. :agree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-VkLarCWU4

Northernhibee
02-04-2013, 06:52 PM
I judge managers what they do in the league. Lucky teams can win cups. Good teams win leagues.

I judge managers on what they do with the club and what's at their disposal. Three trips to Hampden in two years is not luck, that's consistency. 11th to 7th is progress. The quality of players has improved from the likes of Agogo and Towell next year. The quality of players we're signing on pre contracts is very impressive.

Give it a rest.

Vault Boy
02-04-2013, 06:56 PM
I judge managers on what they do with the club and what's at their disposal. Three trips to Hampden in two years is not luck, that's consistency. 11th to 7th is progress. The quality of players has improved from the likes of Agogo and Towell next year. The quality of players we're signing on pre contracts is very impressive.

Give it a rest.

:agree: Domestic cups are a very important, especially in a league that Celtic were always going to win. Obviously top 6 would have been nice, with the chance of Europe and a bit more money, but if we get ourselves to another final, dare I say win the cup, it will be a great success for Pat and for us.

Weir7
02-04-2013, 07:12 PM
I judge managers on what they do with the club and what's at their disposal. Three trips to Hampden in two years is not luck, that's consistency. 11th to 7th is progress. The quality of players has improved from the likes of Agogo and Towell next year. The quality of players we're signing on pre contracts is very impressive.

Give it a rest.
Judging fenlon on what he has at his disposal. Snap so do -
A training centre that only one oher team has - Celtic and a player budget 3rd in the league.

Based on that he's failed in my eyes. Petries eyes. And in his own eyes.

What Players have we signed on a pre contractS?

Weir7
02-04-2013, 07:13 PM
I judge managers on what they do with the club and what's at their disposal. Three trips to Hampden in two years is not luck, that's consistency. 11th to 7th is progress. The quality of players has improved from the likes of Agogo and Towell next year. The quality of players we're signing on pre contracts is very impressive.

Give it a rest.
Judging fenlon on what he has at his disposal. Snap so do -
A training centre which only one oher team has - Celtic and a player budget 3rd in the league.

Based on that he's failed in my eyes. Petries eyes. And in his own eyes.

What Players have we signed on a pre contractS?

Northernhibee
02-04-2013, 07:22 PM
Judging fenlon on what he has at his disposal. Snap so do -
A training centre which only one oher team has - Celtic and a player budget 3rd in the league.

Based on that he's failed in my eyes. Petries eyes. And in his own eyes.

What Players have we signed on a pre contractS?

Fenlon took over an utter shipwreck of a club. He's improving that.

We've 100% signed Liam Craig on a pre contract and strong rumours of Ryan O'Leary.

Mikey
02-04-2013, 07:24 PM
Give it a rest.

You're wasting your time :wink:

lord bunberry
02-04-2013, 07:25 PM
Judging fenlon on what he has at his disposal. Snap so do -
A training centre which only one oher team has - Celtic and a player budget 3rd in the league.

Based on that he's failed in my eyes. Petries eyes. And in his own eyes.

What Players have we signed on a pre contractS?

What would your opinion be of fenlon if we win the cup this year

Scouse Hibee
02-04-2013, 07:55 PM
What would your opinion be of fenlon if we win the cup this year


Probably................How the **** did he manage to win the cup jammy b*****d :greengrin

Weir7
02-04-2013, 08:23 PM
What would your opinion be of fenlon if we win the cup this year

He will desrve his place as a legend. But won't change what I think of him as a manager. I don't rate him or his style of fitba.

lord bunberry
02-04-2013, 08:27 PM
Probably................How the **** did he manage to win the cup jammy b*****d :greengrin

I really hope he is a jammy *******

hibee19
02-04-2013, 11:51 PM
I judge managers on what they do with the club and what's at their disposal. Three trips to Hampden in two years is not luck, that's consistency. 11th to 7th is progress. The quality of players has improved from the likes of Agogo and Towell next year. The quality of players we're signing on pre contracts is very impressive.

Give it a rest.

We finished 11th. If that is how you are measuring progress wait until the end of the season and don't forget rangers were in the spl last season.

bigwheel
03-04-2013, 07:45 AM
There's no guarantee we won't finish 11th this season ...our performance since new year , if repeated , would probably see that happen ...

It's a big period in the league for Pat - not just the cup ...

Beefster
03-04-2013, 08:00 AM
11th to 7th is progress.

We haven't finished 7th. If we're allowed to take arbitrary points in the season, 1st in November to 7th in April isn't progress.

Braids Hibby
03-04-2013, 09:12 AM
First time poster here. I feel we have made progress under Pat. He has to be given time. We need a bit of stability and Rome wasnt built in a day.

blackpoolhibs
03-04-2013, 09:22 AM
First time poster here. I feel we have made progress under Pat. He has to be given time. We need a bit of stability and Rome wasnt built in a day.

How long did it take them to build Rome?

Braids Hibby
03-04-2013, 09:27 AM
How long did it take them to build Rome?
A wee while but they got there.

blackpoolhibs
03-04-2013, 09:29 AM
A wee while but they got there.

Did London Paris and New York do it quicker and cheaper?

Heedersnvolleys
03-04-2013, 09:32 AM
I keep hearing PF is trying to change the club and the culture at the club???
What is he trying to change into? He only has experience of smaller semi professional clubs! Maybe that's the issue he finding it difficult at a larger club, he has admitted as much in the past!

Vault Boy
03-04-2013, 09:42 AM
Did London Paris and New York do it quicker and cheaper?

Julius Caesar out, Aulus Plautius in. :grr:

Notahappyhibee
03-04-2013, 09:58 AM
I was at the QOS game since then i have not been a fan. He needs to fix the team selection why was Carlos not playing n Saturday and some of his substitutions are to beggar belief!!! We are in the same boat as when YOGI was here good start then a big fall. The players need to take a long look at them self as well there's is no fight only a couple of them deserve to wear the shirt
Rant over GGTHH

Vault Boy
03-04-2013, 10:02 AM
I was at the QOS game since then i have not been a fan. He needs to fix the team selection why was Carlos not playing n Saturday and some of his substitutions are to beggar belief!!! We are in the same boat as when YOGI was here good start then a big fall. The players need to take a long look at them self as well there's is no fight only a couple of them deserve to wear the shirt
Rant over GGTHH

Claros was jaded from travelling for internationals apparently. Back in the team on Saturday.

3pm
03-04-2013, 10:04 AM
First time poster here. I feel we have made progress under Pat. He has to be given time. We need a bit of stability and Rome wasnt built in a day.

Did Brian Clough not say that was because he wasn't on that job?!

Andy74
03-04-2013, 10:26 AM
A wee while but they got there.

There was a hell of a slide after that though that even Yogi would have been embarassed about.

J-C
03-04-2013, 10:42 AM
I keep hearing PF is trying to change the club and the culture at the club???
What is he trying to change into? He only has experience of smaller semi professional clubs! Maybe that's the issue he finding it difficult at a larger club, he has admitted as much in the past!

I've been saying it for a while, Pat is showing glimpses of being out his depth here, back in Ireland the clubs are smaller, less expectation etc and a lot easier to quickly turn around in one season. He's shown he has a no bad eye for a player but not a great one, we cried out for pace and width and so far Done who is naff. He tried to stiffen up the middle which he did but with 3 decent but pretty slow midfielders, our cover at the back is non existent, we need another Ch and a good RB/LB which would free up Stevenson to play in his LM/CM role. We're also hanging onto wasters like Kuqi/Kujabi taking wages that could be used in strengthening position desperately needed.

For me it's been ok but so so job so far, I still think we went the cheap option and Rod thought he was gonna pull off another gem like Mowbray, it hasn't and it looks like another flop once again, we nned to start thinking bigger and that starts with the manager, we need someone with a good reputation, a proven winner at a good level, not league of Ireland level, but one SPL or better.

lord bunberry
03-04-2013, 02:02 PM
I was at the QOS game since then i have not been a fan. He needs to fix the team selection why was Carlos not playing n Saturday and some of his substitutions are to beggar belief!!! We are in the same boat as when YOGI was here good start then a big fall. The players need to take a long look at them self as well there's is no fight only a couple of them deserve to wear the shirt
Rant over GGTHH

Carlos was playing you just didn't notice as he's a master of disguise

Captain Trips
03-04-2013, 03:24 PM
With news about Doyle has PF managed to sign a striker as yet that has worked? Doyle and Kuqi are there others?

Stevie Reid
03-04-2013, 03:35 PM
With news about Doyle has PF managed to sign a striker as yet that has worked? Doyle and Kuqi are there others?

I think Doyle has been a very worthwhile signing. Plus Griffiths has been twice the player under Fenlon than he was when Calderwood was here (who, lest we forget, would never had signed him had Phil Airey not been injured).

SteveHFC
03-04-2013, 05:21 PM
Lose to Falkirk then he can GTF!

Notahappyhibee
03-04-2013, 07:15 PM
Carlos was playing you just didn't notice as he's a master of disguise

He must be inspector Clouseau

Eyrie
03-04-2013, 07:23 PM
He must be inspector ClouseauNope, he was in the Brian Kerr role.