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Emerald
31-03-2013, 12:16 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 12:22 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

Anything below 4th place is a failure in my opinion, i cant defend that teams bottom 6 finish.

matty_f
31-03-2013, 12:22 AM
Who has defended bottom 6? It's underachievement and failure in my eyes and most posts tonight seem to be along those lines.

Emerald
31-03-2013, 12:24 AM
Anything below 4th place is a failure in my opinion, i cant defend that teams bottom 6 finish.
Respect :aok:

Just_Jimmy
31-03-2013, 12:28 AM
Even fenlon said it is a failure.

For me i'm not bothered about the position, between 4th and 11th the league is utter crap. For me the worst thing is the standard of football we play is awful with little attempt to improve it. We create next to no chances with all our goals coming from griffiths.

If he doesnt score we dont. We never control games and dispite often packing the midfield we are garbage at keeping the ball and it rarely seems like a hibs player is open.

All and all he's slowly losing my backing.

Craig_in_Prague
31-03-2013, 12:28 AM
one day we might have big teams like R County, St J, ICT and Motherwell wondering if they can beat the hibees or catch them in the league, or play such pleasant football.

J-C
31-03-2013, 12:41 AM
Anything below 4th place is a failure in my opinion, i cant defend that teams bottom 6 finish.

Considering where we were earlier in the season, this is another disaster after the new year.

Fenlon has added to the squad but some of his earlier signings were a complete waste, Kuqi and Kujabi for instance, sitting in the stands taking a wage that could be used in a far better way.

Yes we are a wee bit better than last year but considering the amount of support we have compared to the teams above apart from Celtic, it's bloody embarrassing. Inverness have almost rebuilt their squad this year and are doing very well indeed, it's taken Pat all this time and we still don't know what system is best for us.

I think Pat will be here after the summer because we have improved but I'm honestly starting to doubt whether he's the man for the job.

monktonharp
31-03-2013, 12:41 AM
Emerald, you are not alone on this. I certainly do not accept that we should be happy with the current situation, but there has been a bit (slight/better) improvement compared to last season. I was unable to attend the ict match and it hurts, that we cant beat the likes of them at the holy ground these days. so, I will say that as a club with such a great tradition, history, fan base etc that we should never ever accept this situation of struggling to even get into the top 6 in scotland.very unhappy about it all tonight. I dont have an answer to the problem so dont even ask what I think the answer should be, but I dont think we should empty Fenlon,just yet.the Sottish cup, is always going to be the be all and end all,for Hibernian fans these days even for the older guys who, like myself have seen great Hibs teams(turnbull) ALMOST WINNING THE LOT.Pished off at the mo, hoping for some luck and some magic in the cup

HUTCHYHIBBY
31-03-2013, 12:42 AM
In a SPL without Rangers it really is a sad state of affairs.

Bearing in mind the overall standard of the teams outwith Celtic it really is unacceptable but, Pat seems to be able to do no wrong in some peoples eyes, if he isn't the man for the job the fact that we've gone through a few managers shouldn't come into it.

Emerald
31-03-2013, 12:46 AM
Emerald, you are not alone on this. I certainly do not accept that we should be happy with the current situation, but there has been a bit (slight/better) improvement compared to last season. I was unable to attend the ict match and it hurts, that we cant beat the likes of them at the holy ground these days. so, I will say that as a club with such a great tradition, history, fan base etc that we should never ever accept this situation of struggling to even get into the top 6 in scotland.very unhappy about it all tonight. I dont have an answer to the problem so dont even ask what I think the answer should be, but I dont think we should empty Fenlon,just yet.the Sottish cup, is always going to be the be all and end all,for Hibernian fans these days even for the older guys who, like myself have seen great Hibs teams(turnbull) ALMOST WINNING THE LOT.Pished off at the mo, hoping for some luck and some magic in the cup

I agree, we're all Hibbies looking for the best. :thumbsup:

Emerald
31-03-2013, 12:56 AM
Considering where we were earlier in the season, this is another disaster after the new year.

Fenlon has added to the squad but some of his earlier signings were a complete waste, Kuqi and Kujabi for instance, sitting in the stands taking a wage that could be used in a far better way.

Yes we are a wee bit better than last year but considering the amount of support we have compared to the teams above apart from Celtic, it's bloody embarrassing. Inverness have almost rebuilt their squad this year and are doing very well indeed, it's taken Pat all this time and we still don't know what system is best for us.

I think Pat will be here after the summer because we have improved but I'm honestly starting to doubt whether he's the man for the job.

You speak the truth my friend. We will never get to where Hibs need to be under Pat. :agree:

hibs4thecup1988
31-03-2013, 01:00 AM
Guy 4 rows in front of me today when I shouted out "Fenlon change it, it is not working it has been rubbish", shouted back...and I quote "What do you want, at least we are not 11th this year like last year, get a grip"...

I mean REALLY!?! Some people ARE happy with this. I honestly could not tell you when I was last at Easter Road and left knowing I had saw us play well and excited me. Disappointed really. Cannot believe we haven't won a home game this year.

Emerald
31-03-2013, 01:06 AM
Guy 4 rows in front of me today when I shouted out "Fenlon change it, it is not working it has been rubbish", shouted back...and I quote "What do you want, at least we are not 11th this year like last year, get a grip"...

I mean REALLY!?! Some people ARE happy with this. I honestly could not tell you when I was last at Easter Road and left knowing I had saw us play well and excited me. Disappointed really. Cannot believe we haven't won a home game this year.

This is my point, folk are happy with this jobby because last year the jobby was smellier :dunno:

pacorosssco
31-03-2013, 01:06 AM
Guy 4 rows in front of me today when I shouted out "Fenlon change it, it is not working it has been rubbish", shouted back...and I quote "What do you want, at least we are not 11th this year like last year, get a grip"...

I mean REALLY!?! Some people ARE happy with this. I honestly could not tell you when I was last at Easter Road and left knowing I had saw us play well and excited me. Disappointed really. Cannot believe we haven't won a home game this year.

man under pressure and understanding out his depth,sad times

pacorosssco
31-03-2013, 01:08 AM
This is my point, folk are happy with this jobby because last year the jobby was smellier :dunno:

to be or not to be(a job a)

Emerald
31-03-2013, 01:10 AM
to be or not to be(a job a)
That is the question :greengrin

pacorosssco
31-03-2013, 01:19 AM
That is the question :greengrin

f
running out of time to prove otherwise

at least a job a who tried but ultimately looks like will wash upsteam with the sewage who came first

Emerald
31-03-2013, 01:23 AM
f
running out of time to prove otherwise

at least a job a who tried but ultimately looks like will wash upsteam with the sewage who came first
Salmon waters salt and shake, Behind the corrugated pash ridden pooh, happy ******g Gandalf day! :thumbsup:

pacorosssco
31-03-2013, 01:42 AM
Salmon waters salt and shake, Behind the corrugated pash ridden pooh, happy ******g Gandalf day! :thumbsup:

the young will live forever and the sun will shine through the blue
pat fenlon not got it together im ****ed goin for a poo

Diclonius
31-03-2013, 01:54 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

Captain Trips
31-03-2013, 02:07 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

No idea but we have one that cannot manage it after 16 months.

TrickyNicky
31-03-2013, 02:26 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

Ok, I'll get on the case and find one Bo$$ and get back to you!

People find new managers in every job, in every industry, in every country, every single day and your post implies that it's an impossible task as far as Hibs are concerned!

hibee19
31-03-2013, 06:58 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

Look at what Ian Murray has managed at Dumbarton. I'm not necessarily saying he's the man for the job but it doesn't take 3 years to build a half-decent team. Don't forget that most spl managers had rebuilding jobs in the summer. We'll probably be 9th by Monday night with no rangers and hearts are a non-entity. We'll be two positions higher in a depleted league. Someone tell me where the progress is. We've barely won a couple of games in about half a season. I get that some people like the guy but he looks more and more like a failure and never sounds like he gives a **** after a big loss.

Beefster
31-03-2013, 07:13 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

It's entirely reasonable to expect that squad, as it is, to finish in the top six.

Weir7
31-03-2013, 07:14 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

That will be Fenlon's squad.

Weir7
31-03-2013, 07:18 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

Petrie has said at the AGM minimum for a manager is top 6. Fenlon has missed this twice.

Cup run is nice. But that's say 5 games. I judge a manager on league form. Fenlon should be sacked.

CorrieHibs
31-03-2013, 08:16 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have

all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

Anything below 4th is a failure. It sickens me when I look at Motherwell, ross county, ICT, St Johnstone and killie all in the top the top 6. No disrespect to them but they are badly supported clubs. What are they doing? Credit to them all they work within their means. Ross county were playing in div 1 last season this season sitting 4th and have pumped us 3 times. Killie I think are woeful a team with sissoko at the back are in the top 6. Fenlon has made no progress, I can now see us finishing 10th or 11th I just can't see where are next league will be. The question is if we do get rid of yet another manager. Who do we get?

Scouse Hibee
31-03-2013, 08:25 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:


And we have some supporters that believe starting all over again on a regular basis is the answer to the problem.

J-C
31-03-2013, 08:40 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

No one as this squad still isn't good enough yet, we have 3 loanees who are all going to be replaced next season, a RB who is very slow(Clancy), no left back, Taiwo who is showing signs of another not good enough on a regular basis. A striker going but decent young lads to replace him, if we play 4-2-3-1 we need a creative attacking central mid, another winger with pace and delivery and a good centre half to cover for McPake and Hanlon, oh and Thompson probably away also.

We have Craig coming, so that's the attacking option on the left covered, Harris on the right but remember he's young and will tire and make mistakes, so by my calculations that's around 7-8 players we'll need in the summer, almost a whole new team, times aint looking good. :confused:


i wonder if the board has told Pat that a top 6 is a must this year, especially since Rangers are gone and the players brought in, if so he may be on a shoogly peg.

andy1875
31-03-2013, 08:42 AM
I'm prepared to give Fenlon until around this time next season. This season has been a huge disappointment after the start we made. The thought however, of having to find a replacement manager, spend the next 2 or 3 seasons in "transition" is enough to put you of the game for life.

Sort it out wee Paddy!!

clerriehibs
31-03-2013, 08:50 AM
Petrie has said at the AGM minimum for a manager is top 6. Fenlon has missed this twice.

Cup run is nice. But that's say 5 games. I judge a manager on league form. Fenlon should be sacked.

Twice? Harsh.

Andy74
31-03-2013, 08:54 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

Won't defend bottom six finish but still very much support what Fenlon is doing and the overall work he has done to improve the club. It's not yet brought the standard of results we want short term but it it is a long term task. Most of the teams above us have enjoyed some level of consistency.

It's not a tricky concept to grasp. Your ambition comment is just stupid.

carnoustiehibee
31-03-2013, 09:02 AM
Watching us just now is eye bleeding stuff, but would there still be this reaction if we got the 4 points v utd and the dub slurpers?

Springbank
31-03-2013, 09:04 AM
From the outside it seems so obvious that if you adopt an attractive passing game, based on keeping the ball, you do well in the spl. If you constantly kick the ball away aimlessly then you don't do so well.

Look what happened when Mowbray changed the tactics with the team he inherited from bobby hoofball Williamson. Or look at Killie and Ross county being above us.

It's around 4 years since the Liam miller / mcbride team actually looked like a footballing side. It's criminal watching the current tactics which go against the grain of the Hibs dna

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 09:09 AM
So who's this new manager that will turn this squad of players into a top six team within four months?

Thats Fenlons job, after all he's brought most of them to the club? Bottom 6 is unacceptable END OF. Always wanted to say that.

I have been Fenlons biggest fan, but i don't think even he would say he's done as good a job as he should have?

LancsHibs
31-03-2013, 09:14 AM
Totally agree not aking the top 6 is wholly unacceptable. Should we start the search for a new manager? I don't know, it would seem we are in this endless cycle of appointing and sacking managers:confused: my heart says no but my head is beginning to move towards yes. I think we should give him this summer to try and sort it out and make an assessment in Oct/Nov, however, if he wins us that bloody cup he could never do any wrong in my eyes:wink:

HUTCHYHIBBY
31-03-2013, 09:16 AM
1 home league win since 12th Nov in a sub-standard SPL is unacceptable. Maybe its time for the folk in charge of appointing these managers to take a closer look at themselves.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 09:20 AM
1 home league win since 12th Nov in a sub-standard SPL is unacceptable. Maybe its time for the folk in charge of appointing these managers to take a closer look at themselves.

:agree: They'd be better asking me who i'd appoint as manager.

Treadstone
31-03-2013, 09:21 AM
From the outside it seems so obvious that if you adopt an attractive passing game, based on keeping the ball, you do well in the spl. If you constantly kick the ball away aimlessly then you don't do so well.

Look what happened when Mowbray changed the tactics with the team he inherited from bobby hoofball Williamson. Or look at Killie and Ross county being above us.


Certainly not for sacking PF at the moment. But this is a great point you need a brave manager and a team that is trusted to play football.

Mowbray had no idea if he was a good manager but if he was to go down it was to be his way. No sending out teams to be 'hard to beat'(the reality is hard to watch).

I think PF may have a bit of an inferiority complex that if he gets punted that may be it for him in Britain.

Love the Green
31-03-2013, 09:24 AM
For all the years I've supported Hibs, I would never be proud of a league standing of bellow fourth place to be honest. We now have a breed, yes a breed of Hibs supporters who think this is acceptable!!! In a depleted league with no Rangers and a depleted Hearts squad some fans accept that Fenlon is doing a good job?!!

Can I therefore ask a simple question? Where do you expect a Capital City club with a relatively huge support in this depleted league to be? Or have all the Fenlon supporters lost their ambition. :boo hoo:

:top marks

"KEEP THE FAITH"

HUTCHYHIBBY
31-03-2013, 09:25 AM
:agree: They'd be better asking me who i'd appoint as manager.

Yogi had his chance BH! :-)

erin go bragh
31-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Im not happy about not making the top six but were one game away from back to back sc finals

Keep knocking on the door and that :wink:

ggtth

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 09:27 AM
Yogi had his chance BH! :-)

Aye but they only gave him 15 months, and in those 15 months he did a lot better than anyone since Mowbray. I dream of the day we get lucky and scrape into the top 4. :wink:

Captain Trips
31-03-2013, 09:28 AM
I said when CC took over from Yogi that aftwr a few months I wasnt seeing much different. Under PF in first season I thought he was shocking tbh, this term yes I can see a difference and slight improvement but for me we didnt need a bit better manager we needed a hell of a lot better. With results and performance over one year on we have not came on enough. Plenty of teams sort themselves out quicker than this. The excuses are still far outweighing the soloutions. After 3 transfer windows we are on this sort of run? Disgraceful for me.

LancsHibs
31-03-2013, 09:36 AM
As previously stated not for sacking Pat (yet) but if there was any chance of tempting either Stuart McCall or Terry Butcher to ER would replace him in a second. Unfortunately bigger fish than Hibs will keeping an eye on these two!

SkintHibby
31-03-2013, 09:40 AM
Forget Pat Fenlon, it should be Rod Petrie that should be going.

It's all become tedious at Easter Road and he whole club needs a new direction...starting from the top down.

Sorry folks but Petries time is up.:agree:

Captain Trips
31-03-2013, 09:48 AM
Forget Pat Fenlon, it should be Rod Petrie that should be going.

It's all become tedious at Easter Road and he whole club needs a new direction...starting from the top down.

Sorry folks but Petries time is up.:agree:

His time was up after CC carry on. His fault we are were we are.

The Voice Of Reason
31-03-2013, 09:48 AM
Won't defend bottom six finish but still very much support what Fenlon is doing and the overall work he has done to improve the club. It's not yet brought the standard of results we want short term but it it is a long term task. Most of the teams above us have enjoyed some level of consistency.

It's not a tricky concept to grasp. Your ambition comment is just stupid.

Andy - what has Fenlon done to "improve the club" ?

I am not being deliberately challenging (for a change!) I am just genuinely interested to know what you mean by this. :aok:

The Voice Of Reason
31-03-2013, 09:51 AM
His time was up after CC carry on. His fault we are were we are.

He made a "James Hunt" of himself with the Calderwood saga!

Anyone care to dig out his quote about CC being a great manager etc........?!?!:crazy:

truehibernian
31-03-2013, 10:01 AM
Forget Pat Fenlon, it should be Rod Petrie that should be going.

It's all become tedious at Easter Road and he whole club needs a new direction...starting from the top down.

Sorry folks but Petries time is up.:agree:

I was a 'loyalist' of Rod up until last year - his performance, or lack of it, this last 3 years should have seen him stand aside and get a fresh, vibrant new man at the helm. The sheer fact he and the board didn't invest in Liam Craig in January showed me exactly where his thoughts lie on the football front. We staved off relegation due to early form, yet we go through motions 'because he'll be free in summer' - the investment would have been paid back by reaching top 6.

It's a very very grateful thanks, but time to step aside fully Rod and take the dignified decision to hand over the reins.

AFKA5814_Hibs
31-03-2013, 10:11 AM
Finishing in the bottom 6 of a poor SPL is indeed embarrasing. Lets assume that Killie get the last spot, then I suppose we are not alone. Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen should all be top 6 given the size of of the clubs.

Last season we finished 11th and got to the SC Final, we could very well end up this season exactly the same as last season. How exactly is that progress? :confused:

Eyrie
31-03-2013, 10:12 AM
Not making the top six this year is indefensible.

But Fenlon won’t be away in the summer. He has another year left on his contract and will be given until at least the AGM before his position is under seriousconsideration.

ChooseLife
31-03-2013, 10:22 AM
I'll defend it,

We should be on 44 points rather than 40, we should be joint 5th, 1 point behind 4th, but Fenlon can only control the players, not the linesman, refs etc, Hibs deserve to be in the top 6 and this bottom 6 scenario was pointed out to all of us after the Griffiths goal was disallowed vs them, there was debate about how much money those 2 decisions could have cost us.

We lost against the best ICT there has been yesterday and they deserved to win, but Fenlon did enough with the team to deserve a top 6 place, not his fault imo, we're still 5 points behind 4th place in a very tight league, if those 2 decisions went the way they should have, I don't think the pitch forks would be out just now.

HIBERNIAN-0762
31-03-2013, 10:24 AM
You speak the truth my friend. We will never get to where Hibs need to be under Pat. :agree:

Is this really all down to Pat? or is there a deeper reason? perhaps a board that is so quiet you could hear a mouse fart, an owner who we all love but is simply not interested in football, just walking around the hospitality suites with a cup of coffee in his hand is fine by him, a state of the art training center that in all fairness has failed to make us look like we have one.

Dozens of reasons and I would like to think this soft touch that has embedded itself in to our club needs to be taken by the scruff of the neck and booted up the arse!

Settling for anything less that a top 4 place for a club our size is ridiculous in my opinion.

It is also my opinion that unless a new and football orientated owner is found then we will continue to flounder, of course that will never happen in this current financial climate.

lord bunberry
31-03-2013, 10:26 AM
It just goes to show how ridiculous the split is. We were onewin away from a probable top 6 finish and everyone being reasonably happy but were now bottom 6 and the managers job is on the line. Fwiw I think fenlon Should be given the time to turn it around next season, the thought of yet another period of uncertainty, another team rebuild fills me with dread. We still have the cup this season but next season is going to be massive for us as there's no way the fans will put up with more of the same

Hibeez Boy!xx
31-03-2013, 10:27 AM
To be perfectly honest. I don't think paddy is the man for the job. Yeah he done great with us at the start of the season but I just seem to think he's a safety first manager and depends on any scraps up front and then sparky to work some magic. Bottom 6 never used to be the case with this great club and we need to get back on top. GGTTH

AFKA5814_Hibs
31-03-2013, 10:34 AM
I'll defend it,

We should be on 44 points rather than 40, we should be joint 5th, 1 point behind 4th, but Fenlon can only control the players, not the linesman, refs etc, Hibs deserve to be in the top 6 and this bottom 6 scenario was pointed out to all of us after Griffiths goal was disallowed vs them, there was debate about how much money those 2 decisions could have cost us.

We lost against the best ICT there has been yesterday and they deserved to win, but Fenlon did enough with the team to deserve a top 6 place, not his fault imo, we're still 5 points behind 4th place in a very tight league, if those 2 decisions went the way they should have, I don't think the pitch forks would be out just now.

Just of the top of my head, but I'd say Skacel's goal against us when we won 2-1 v Dundee Utd earlier in the season went our way, that should have been a goal. Over the course of the season, do decisions even themselves out, they probably do. :dunno:

Aye, those 2 decisions were obviously bad ones that have went against us, but we have not won a league game at Easter Road in 2013. Only in the Hearts game can I think of any decisions that have went against us in those games. Losing 4 points in our last 2 games against one of the poorest sides to have ever been in the SPL is as much a contributing factor to finishing in the bottom 6 as those 2 shocking decisions.

Heisenberg
31-03-2013, 10:37 AM
Those two decisions were terrible but our overall performance in 2013 has not merited a top six place. We're simply not good enough, Fenlon has to win against Falkirk to both save himself and a bit of our season. We lose that game and we slump further down the league with pressure mounting for him to leave.

Billy Whizz
31-03-2013, 10:52 AM
Assuming Killie beat St Mirren on Wednesday, we wont be able to get a top 6 finish by beating Celtic.

Bottom 6 fixtures likely to be
Home 2 games against either Dundee Utd/Dons or Killie
St Mirren

Away
Hearts
Dundee

Boyle89
31-03-2013, 10:56 AM
You can't defend it. In a league without rangers, and with karma finally catching up with them, we should be top 6 with our fan base and budget. With our start to the season we should have made top 6 ours with games to spare but we have been woeful since about November, not just in results but in performances aswell. Tactics have been shocking. I genuinely believe we have the players to play football and not this garbage we've been served most of the season. I fear this season is a waste and has been a missed opportunity to get back on track. True there has been progress but not enough IMO. If we don't finish 7th and make the final, and put in a performance if we get there, then questions need to be asked of PF.

cabbageandribs1875
31-03-2013, 11:02 AM
Assuming Killie beat St Mirren on Wednesday, we wont be able to get a top 6 finish by beating Celtic.

Bottom 6 fixtures likely to be
Home 2 games against either Dundee Utd/Dons or Killie
St Mirren

Away
Hearts
Dundee


i expect killie to complete the top six with two winnable home games(st.mirren, dundee)

our games should be

Home

Aberdeen
Dundee utd
st.mirren

Away

Dundee
Hertz

giving us 19 Home + Away games

allezsauzee
31-03-2013, 11:17 AM
A league season that promised so much and then petered out during the winter months and ending with a series of meaningless games is fairly typical of Hibs over the past thirty odd years if not longer. As the cup is all we really have left to look forward to, I think we should use key players sparingly to make sure they are fit and available for these games (hopefully plural).

jamie-fairbairn
31-03-2013, 12:41 PM
i'd just like to make a few points, sorry if they've already been brought up. i know since the winter break our performances have been awful, i've been to almost every game and what we were playing at the start of the season was much better than now. however in the past month, 2 massive incorrect decisions by referees and linesman have cost hibs 5 points, added to what we have just now we'd be in the top 6. add that to our ability to not hold onto leads earlier on this season (2-2 ICT and 3-2 Motherwell, both after being 2-0 up) we'd be in the top 6. and final point take away alan maybury from our team and i'm sure i worked it out thats another 7 points we'd have.

i'm going to give fenlon the summer and first 10 games of next season before i start calling for his head. he's done everything he said he would do so far (keep us up, improve from last season) plus 2 semi finals on top of that. we defo do need another out ball though, its worrying how much we rely on leigh g

HUTCHYHIBBY
31-03-2013, 12:45 PM
Thats like saying if we won all the games we've lost we'd be top of the league!

Weir7
31-03-2013, 12:54 PM
Twice? Harsh.

No its a fact

VickMackie
31-03-2013, 01:16 PM
We're *****, the SPL is *****, almost every single Scottish player is *****. I don't get why people still get upset about it.

clerriehibs
31-03-2013, 04:13 PM
No its a fact

Fenlon was in charge at the end of last year's campaign. It wasn't his campaign. This year was/is his campaign, so throw muck all you like, but it's tosh to pin last year on him.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 04:14 PM
We're *****, the SPL is *****, almost every single Scottish player is *****. I don't get why people still get upset about it.

Because we care.

AFKA5814_Hibs
31-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Assuming Killie beat St Mirren on Wednesday, we wont be able to get a top 6 finish by beating Celtic.

Bottom 6 fixtures likely to be
Home 2 games against either Dundee Utd/Dons or Killie
St Mirren

Away
Hearts
Dundee

If Dundee Utd beat St Johnstone tomorrow night we cannot finish top 6.

DH1875
31-03-2013, 08:47 PM
It cracks me up that so many of us think that where we are is acceptable. Have said for months we wouldn't finish top 6 and got slaughtered for it. Sad it looks like I'll be proven right but we simply aren't good enough.


And we have some supporters that believe starting all over again on a regular basis is the answer to the problem.

If you bought a tv and it broke, you'd fix it. When it broke again you'd fix it. Then it broke again and again and you'd fix it. Finally it breaks again and you think enough I can't keep fixing it, I'll just keep this broken one and no bother fixing it and stare at a blank screen every day. Not me, I'd fix it.

If it's broke then fix it till it's NOT broke anymore :boo hoo:.


I'll defend it,

We should be on 44 points rather than 40, we should be joint 5th, 1 point behind 4th, but Fenlon can only control the players, not the linesman, refs etc, Hibs deserve to be in the top 6 and this bottom 6 scenario was pointed out to all of us after the Griffiths goal was disallowed vs them, there was debate about how much money those 2 decisions could have cost us.

We lost against the best ICT there has been yesterday and they deserved to win, but Fenlon did enough with the team to deserve a top 6 place, not his fault imo, we're still 5 points behind 4th place in a very tight league, if those 2 decisions went the way they should have, I don't think the pitch forks would be out just now.

So are we the only team to have had decisions go against us this year :confused:

The Falcon
31-03-2013, 08:56 PM
Anything below 4th place is a failure in my opinion, i cant defend that teams bottom 6 finish.

We have only finished fourth or better six times in the last 36 seasons. Four of them in the last 12.

Paisley Hibby
31-03-2013, 09:14 PM
Andy - what has Fenlon done to "improve the club" ?

I am not being deliberately challenging (for a change!) I am just genuinely interested to know what you mean by this. :aok:

That's what I was wondering too. When you take into account that the standard of the SPL is even worse than last year I see no improvement at all.

All that is keeping Fenlon in a job is that we are still in the cup. If we lose to Falkirk (and it will be no surprise if we do)he should get binned. We can't afford another season of the eye bleeding mediocrity that he serves up.

Andy74
31-03-2013, 09:40 PM
It cracks me up that so many of us think that where we are is acceptable. Have said for months we wouldn't finish top 6 and got slaughtered for it. Sad it looks like I'll be proven right but we simply aren't good enough.



If you bought a tv and it broke, you'd fix it. When it broke again you'd fix it. Then it broke again and again and you'd fix it. Finally it breaks again and you think enough I can't keep fixing it, I'll just keep this broken one and no bother fixing it and stare at a blank screen every day. Not me, I'd fix it.

If it's broke then fix it till it's NOT broke anymore :boo hoo:.



So are we the only team to have had decisions go against us this year :confused:

I'm sure there are plenty of us who can agree that the results aren't acceptable but don't think that at this point the managers position needs to be questioned.

Thinking that the only way to improve is to sack a manager is ridiculous.

blackpoolhibs
31-03-2013, 09:49 PM
We have only finished fourth or better six times in the last 36 seasons. Four of them in the last 12.

That maybe the case, but since we were told we had to be patient while we got the foundations built, and other clubs have cut back we have failed miserably apart from 1 year under Hughes. Just how much more Patience do we need? every season someone comes from behind us and does what we want?

DH1875
31-03-2013, 09:56 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of us who can agree that the results aren't acceptable but don't think that at this point the managers position needs to be questioned.

Thinking that the only way to improve is to sack a manager is ridiculous.


Sticking by a manager simply because he's better than CC is also ridiculous.

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 05:20 AM
I don't really subscribe to the fact that because we get more supporters we should have a better team. A wee look at the EPL average attandances last year is interesting:

1 Manchester United 75,526
2 Arsenal 60,077
3 Newcastle United 50,061
4 Manchester City 46,999
5 Liverpool 44,695
6 Chelsea 41,408
7 Sunderland 40,350
8 Everton 36,365
9 Tottenham Hotspur 36,000
10 West Ham United 34,700
11 Aston Villa 34,350
12 Southampton 30,695
13 Stoke City 26,780
14 Norwich City 26,683
15 Fulham 25,496
16 West Bromwich Albion 25,188
17 Reading 23,925
18 Swansea City 20,366
19 Wigan Athletic 18,996
20 Queens Park Rangers 17,886

HUTCHYHIBBY
01-04-2013, 08:23 AM
Is that a defence of finishing in the bottom 6? I don't get it.

If only we had middle eastern owners we could get away with crowds that 5 of the current SPL's top 6 have.

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 09:03 AM
Is that a defence of finishing in the bottom 6? I don't get it.

If only we had middle eastern owners we could get away with crowds that 5 of the current SPL's top 6 have.

Not a defence of the bottom six. Nothing to defend there at all IMO. Kind of debunks the .net fact that your position in the table should be determined by the crowds you get.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2013, 09:06 AM
Not a defence of the bottom six. Nothing to defend there at all IMO. Kind of debunks the .net fact that your position in the table should be determined by the crowds you get.

I disagree, crowds don't make as much a difference in England, especially if your owner has bottomless pockets? In Scotland every clubs main income is what they bring through the gate.

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 09:35 AM
I disagree, crowds don't make as much a difference in England, especially if your owner has bottomless pockets? In Scotland every clubs main income is what they bring through the gate.

Ah, but nobody has used that argument for us being better than all bar the tic and the hertz. Everything on here says it should be determined by crowd size. Of course deep pockets are beneficial to some clubs. I have no interest in doing a comparison for the EPL and which club has the richest owners however. If income from external sources has to be taken into account then externa expenditure should also be taken and crowd size matters not a whit.

Andy74
01-04-2013, 10:48 AM
Sticking by a manager simply because he's better than CC is also ridiculous.

Who said that's why we should stick with him?

J-C
01-04-2013, 10:54 AM
I disagree, crowds don't make as much a difference in England, especially if your owner has bottomless pockets? In Scotland every clubs main income is what they bring through the gate.

Plus the huge amounts given by Sky tv helps.

blackpoolhibs
01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Ah, but nobody has used that argument for us being better than all bar the tic and the hertz. Everything on here says it should be determined by crowd size. Of course deep pockets are beneficial to some clubs. I have no interest in doing a comparison for the EPL and which club has the richest owners however. If income from external sources has to be taken into account then externa expenditure should also be taken and crowd size matters not a whit.

Size should have some bearing on where you finish in Scotland, its completely different to England. A club that can spend 4m in wages should be able to finish above a club that spends 1m. If as in England a club spends 100m and a another club spends 110m they will still be going after similar types of player.

Any decent Hibs manager should never have his team sitting behind Ross county or Inverness, no matter how long these teams have been building a side.

HUTCHYHIBBY
01-04-2013, 11:16 AM
Size should have some bearing on where you finish in Scotland, its completely different to England. A club that can spend 4m in wages should be able to finish above a club that spends 1m. If as in England a club spends 100m and a another club spends 110m they will still be going after similar types of player.

Any decent Hibs manager should never have his team sitting behind Ross county or Inverness, no matter how long these teams have been building a side.

Seems perfectly reasonable.

Captain Trips
01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
Size should have some bearing on where you finish in Scotland, its completely different to England. A club that can spend 4m in wages should be able to finish above a club that spends 1m. If as in England a club spends 100m and a another club spends 110m they will still be going after similar types of player.

Any decent Hibs manager should never have his team sitting behind Ross county or Inverness, no matter how long these teams have been building a side.

I agree BH.

Malthibby
01-04-2013, 11:37 AM
Bottom six in this league is failure, but we have to stick with Fenlon, too many managers have come & gone.
He will get next season but it does worry me; Griffiths is the reason things aren't worse & Fenlon can't take
credit for that.
On the other hand two games & the SC. Won't give a txss about the league if that happens.
GG

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 11:37 AM
Size should have some bearing on where you finish in Scotland, its completely different to England. A club that can spend 4m in wages should be able to finish above a club that spends 1m. If as in England a club spends 100m and a another club spends 110m they will still be going after similar types of player.

Any decent Hibs manager should never have his team sitting behind Ross county or Inverness, no matter how long these teams have been building a side.


Seems perfectly reasonable.


I agree BH.

I don't. :greengrin There are comparisons to be made. I only picked engerlund as they were our neighbours. I reckon the same thing could be done with any league and it will not pan out with the best supported being top and worst supported being bottom. Unfortunately I am busy at work so won't go looking.

RIP
01-04-2013, 11:38 AM
There is only 1 reason Pat is in a job today. A player signed by Rod under Calderwood.

Leigh Griffiths

If you create a table without Leigh, folk accuse you of stupidity saying someone else would have got those goals. I'm not so sure

Current Table
Played 32 Won 10 Drawn 10 Lost 12 For 40 Against 44 Points 40

Without Leigh
Played 32 Won 4 Drawn 12 Lost 16 For 23 Against 44 Points 24

Dundee would be on 22 points and we would be in a relegation position for the second year running under Fenlon. All that on the back of two cup runs and a drubbing by the Yams

Likeable as he may be, performance as a coach is about making a football better

J-C
01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
Size should have some bearing on where you finish in Scotland, its completely different to England. A club that can spend 4m in wages should be able to finish above a club that spends 1m. If as in England a club spends 100m and a another club spends 110m they will still be going after similar types of player.

Any decent Hibs manager should never have his team sitting behind Ross county or Inverness, no matter how long these teams have been building a side.


There you have hit the nail on the head, a decent manager.

When was the last time we had that, not since Mowbray. We have flitted from bad manager to another evey 18 months or so, the board have to hold there hands up and take the blame here.

Now Pat talk a decent game but again like the ladt 3 managers, he's a punt in the dark, came here with a decent record in Ireland but knew little of our league really. Tactically shown to be a bit naive and overy cautious, with a squad very imbalanced (zero attacking mids and little cover up front apart from an untried winger turned striker).

As you've stated we should be top 4 at a canter, considering where we were earlier in the season, starting to look like Yogi all over again :devil: very good 1st half and a terrible 2nd, with no plan B to stop the rot.

Personally I game Pat the benefit of the doubt but 18 months on I see little progress, still can't win at home and ocassionally get humped by nobody teams like Dundee/Ross Co and St Johnstone. For me, he's not the man to take us forward, who is? I haven't a clue but if we do win the cup, Rod'll find it hard to sack him.

Stevie Reid
01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
There is only 1 reason Pat is in a job today. A player signed by Rod under Calderwood.

Leigh Griffiths

If you create a table without Leigh, folk accuse you of stupidity saying someone else would have got those goals. I'm not so sure

Current Table
Played 32 Won 10 Drawn 10 Lost 12 For 40 Against 44 Points 40

Without Leigh
Played 32 Won 4 Drawn 12 Lost 16 For 23 Against 44 Points 24

Dundee would be on 22 points and we would be in a relegation position for the second year running under Fenlon. All that on the back of two cup runs and a drubbing by the Yams

Likeable as he may be, performance as a coach is about making a football better

Do you fancy doing the same for Motherwell minus Higdon's goals, ICT minus McKay's goals and Aberdeen without McGinn's?

That's a genuine request, I'm not being obstreperous.

HUTCHYHIBBY
01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
There is only 1 reason Pat is in a job today. A player signed by Rod under Calderwood.

Leigh Griffiths

If you create a table without Leigh, folk accuse you of stupidity saying someone else would have got those goals. I'm not so sure

Current Table
Played 32 Won 10 Drawn 10 Lost 12 For 40 Against 44 Points 40

Without Leigh
Played 32 Won 4 Drawn 12 Lost 16 For 23 Against 44 Points 24

Dundee would be on 22 points and we would be in a relegation position for the second year running under Fenlon. All that on the back of two cup runs and a drubbing by the Yams

Likeable as he may be, performance as a coach is about making a football better

I think I'll leave this one to LA!

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 12:08 PM
There is only 1 reason Pat is in a job today. A player signed by Rod under Calderwood.

Leigh Griffiths

If you create a table without Leigh, folk accuse you of stupidity saying someone else would have got those goals. I'm not so sure

Current Table
Played 32 Won 10 Drawn 10 Lost 12 For 40 Against 44 Points 40

Without Leigh
Played 32 Won 4 Drawn 12 Lost 16 For 23 Against 44 Points 24

Dundee would be on 22 points and we would be in a relegation position for the second year running under Fenlon. All that on the back of two cup runs and a drubbing by the Yams

Likeable as he may be, performance as a coach is about making a football better


I think I'll leave this one to LA!

I shall duly oblige :greengrin

Gogs, you maybe have the same name as me but that is a pile of sheicht. :greengrin I will agree with the people who accuse you of stupidity. You cannot just go about taking random goals away. As Steve says do the same for every team's top scorer and see where that puts us. Silly comparison mate.

RIP
01-04-2013, 12:18 PM
I shall duly oblige :greengrin

Gogs, you maybe have the same name as me but that is a pile of sheicht. :greengrin I will agree with the people who accuse you of stupidity. You cannot just go about taking random goals away. As Steve says do the same for every team's top scorer and see where that puts us. Silly comparison mate.

My post was tongue in cheek. I'm not allowed to be silly at home or at work. Messageboards are the only place I can be silly :na na:

My main point was that Leigh fell in Pat's lap and that LG scores goals in spite of rather than becuase of the way Pat sets out his team. My other point that Leigh had kept PF in a job is still worthy of debate, I reckon

Nice to meet another Auld Gogs though - that Gordon Smith's got a lot to answer for :greengrin

WHUHibs
01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
I'll defend it,

We should be on 44 points rather than 40, we should be joint 5th, 1 point behind 4th, but Fenlon can only control the players, not the linesman, refs etc, Hibs deserve to be in the top 6 and this bottom 6 scenario was pointed out to all of us after the Griffiths goal was disallowed vs them, there was debate about how much money those 2 decisions could have cost us.

We lost against the best ICT there has been yesterday and they deserved to win, but Fenlon did enough with the team to deserve a top 6 place, not his fault imo, we're still 5 points behind 4th place in a very tight league, if those 2 decisions went the way they should have, I don't think the pitch forks would be out just now.

Sorry detox but your argument does not stack up!

You cannot say points lost are due to bad decisions... Ask any supporter of any team and they will also say decisions that cost them. So assuming that is true then decisions will iron themselves out over a season...or is it just hibs that get decisions against them..I think not!

Problem number 2 is its not his fault,,,who picks the team? Who selects players both to buy/ Loan etc? Who sets out the tactics? Who does the groundwork on the opposition? Who makes game changes and substitutions? Unless I'm wrong it's the manager ! Of course some players don't perform but it's up to the manager to get the max out of them or change personnel....so.. In conclusion we lost points by the team not performing so guess what,, the manager has to shoulder the blame !!!!

lord bunberry
01-04-2013, 12:23 PM
There is only 1 reason Pat is in a job today. A player signed by Rod under Calderwood.

Leigh Griffiths

If you create a table without Leigh, folk accuse you of stupidity saying someone else would have got those goals. I'm not so sure

Current Table
Played 32 Won 10 Drawn 10 Lost 12 For 40 Against 44 Points 40

Without Leigh
Played 32 Won 4 Drawn 12 Lost 16 For 23 Against 44 Points 24

Dundee would be on 22 points and we would be in a relegation position for the second year running under Fenlon. All that on the back of two cup runs and a drubbing by the Yams

Likeable as he may be, performance as a coach is about making a football better

Not that stupid argument again

Lucius Apuleius
01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
My post was tongue in cheek. I'm not allowed to be silly at home or at work. Messageboards are the only place I can be silly :na na:

My main point was that Leigh fell in Pat's lap and that LG scores goals in spite of rather than becuase of the way Pat sets out his team. My other point that Leigh had kept PF in a job is still worthy of debate, I reckon

Nice to meet another Auld Gogs though - that Gordon Smith's got a lot to answer for :greengrin

Hmph, I am not allowed to be silly anywhere, deluded, but not silly. Don't know why my old man didn't go all the way and put Johnston, Reilly and Ormond between my first and second names right enough :greengrin

I don't think Leigh scores goals in spite of the tactics to be honest. He does his job. I don't believe he has kept Pat in a job either as I don't think there is any way he would have been sacked this season no matter what.