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HFC_NYC
22-03-2013, 11:01 PM
Obviously, given my location, I don't get to see too many games, but I have to ask the question, what happened to the 3-5-2 formation? Was it only a success because of Sauzee, or is this something that could be re-implemented?

AgentDaleCooper
22-03-2013, 11:20 PM
Obviously, given my location, I don't get to see too many games, but I have to ask the question, what happened to the 3-5-2 formation? Was it only a success because of Sauzee, or is this something that could be re-implemented?

probably up to fenlon, IMO

J-C
22-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Obviously, given my location, I don't get to see too many games, but I have to ask the question, what happened to the 3-5-2 formation? Was it only a success because of Sauzee, or is this something that could be re-implemented?

You'll need 2 quick wing backs for that system and unfortunately we haven't, plus you need 3 CH's with decent pace and McPake is desperately slow at times, as is Clancy.

Man City have flirted with it a few times this season as has Wigan, it allows for a more attack minded team with the wing backs as wingers, the team plays with either 5 in middle or 5 in attack.

On their day Wigan are one of the best teams in the league with this system, unfortunately they tend to blow hot and cold, as players have to be disciplined in their positioning, Barca have also adopted this system this season.

sesoim
22-03-2013, 11:43 PM
I loved the 3-5-2 with Sauzee, but it only works if you have someone like Sauzee, ie a class player who can pick out passes from the back. I think players like Wotherspoon and Booth might have benefitted if we had been able to play that system now as I think wingback would have been their best positions for us.

Unfortunately because so may teams play boring 4-5-1 systems now, there is no point in having, in effect, three central defenders, as you don't need that many. But I'd love to see Fenlon experiment with the formation (and players' positions) instead of persisting with the current system, which is way too reliant on Griffiths.

tamig
23-03-2013, 02:42 AM
You'll need 2 quick wing backs for that system and unfortunately we haven't, plus you need 3 CH's with decent pace and McPake is desperately slow at times, as is Clancy.

Man City have flirted with it a few times this season as has Wigan, it allows for a more attack minded team with the wing backs as wingers, the team plays with either 5 in middle or 5 in attack.

On their day Wigan are one of the best teams in the league with this system, unfortunately they tend to blow hot and cold, as players have to be disciplined in their positioning, Barca have also adopted this system this season.

The wide boys have to be fit as fork as well - capable of getting up and down the park. Its all about the personnel though and we're nowhere near having that just now.

Fergus52
23-03-2013, 10:45 AM
We played it for a few matches post-split the season we won the cup and I thought it worked pretty well.

Boozy went back into sweeper and was excellent although he did get sent off against the Huns.

I remember zemmama playing almost in a "free role" between the 2 CMs and 2 strikers where I thought he looked great.

J-C
23-03-2013, 11:15 AM
The wide boys have to be fit as fork as well - capable of getting up and down the park. Its all about the personnel though and we're nowhere near having that just now.


Very true, at the moment we don't have real wide men as such, Wotherspoon is slow and continually comes inside and Done is a loanee who aint very good.

With the squad we have at the moment I'd go with a narrow side maybe 4-1-2-1-2 or 4-1-3-2, this gives you freedom to control the midfield and flip from attack to defence fairly quickly.

As has said a 3-5-2 only works when against a team that plays with 2 up front, most teams go with 1, so a back four is then norm.

hibsbollah
23-03-2013, 12:25 PM
I doubt 352 will ever be successful in the SPL, where the normal tactic of choice is the long diagonal ball pumped into the corners, which is exactly the 352's weak point. As has already been said, its all about personnel. Hibs play 451 because its the best formation for the players we have.

Its quite popular in Italy, a few serie A teams and the national team use it.

Hibby Kay-Yay
23-03-2013, 12:52 PM
**********************GK************************


RB************CH************CH***************LB



**************CM************CM*****************



RW******************AM**********************LW


*********************ST************************

A more attacking 4-5-1 could prove more fruitful. Above is an example which allows for a huge amount of triangular passing moves between positions. This gives a lot of options for each player in their positions as there should always be a passing option available. It's allverycomplex :wink: to explain the movement of positions where you still retain the triangular patterns of passing options but hopefully you can visualise it for yourself.

This style is very much on the deck, however there are longer options available from the back as long as the wingers and striker and AM create the space for it.

Whilst I loved the 3-5-2 days I believe that the 4-5-1 can be exciting if deployed in an attacking, on the deck way. The triangles are key to it all :agree:

jacomo
25-03-2013, 05:19 PM
All formations have pros and cons. With any of them, if you are stronger in one area of the park, you'll be weaker in another.

Across world football, 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 have taken over. I think this has something to do with the athleticism of modern players, where the full backs can push up or defend as needed. Football is now played at a faster pace than even a decade ago.

JohnStephens91
25-03-2013, 05:24 PM
**********************GK************************


RB************CH************CH***************LB



**************CM************CM*****************



RW******************AM**********************LW


*********************ST************************

A more attacking 4-5-1 could prove more fruitful. Above is an example which allows for a huge amount of triangular passing moves between positions. This gives a lot of options for each player in their positions as there should always be a passing option available. It's allverycomplex :wink: to explain the movement of positions where you still retain the triangular patterns of passing options but hopefully you can visualise it for yourself.

This style is very much on the deck, however there are longer options available from the back as long as the wingers and striker and AM create the space for it.

Whilst I loved the 3-5-2 days I believe that the 4-5-1 can be exciting if deployed in an attacking, on the deck way. The triangles are key to it all :agree:

I'm sure this is the formation we play?

Hibercelona
25-03-2013, 05:43 PM
At the moment, we could play a 0-10-0 formation and still be out crowded in midfield. :cb

I think switching between 4-5-1 when defending and 4-3-3 when attacking works best for us at the moment. But the wing play really needs to improve, as its been very poor lately.

Winston Ingram
25-03-2013, 06:13 PM
Obviously, given my location, I don't get to see too many games, but I have to ask the question, what happened to the 3-5-2 formation? Was it only a success because of Sauzee, or is this something that could be re-implemented?

It disappeared about a decade ago. Far too easy to play against. Roberto Mancini tried to revive it but it failed:agree:

Hibby Kay-Yay
25-03-2013, 08:24 PM
I'm sure this is the formation we play?

But with a long ball, rather than pass and move on the deck through the triangle approach.

J-C
25-03-2013, 11:29 PM
**********************GK************************


RB************CH************CH***************LB



**************CM************CM*****************



RW******************AM**********************LW


*********************ST************************

A more attacking 4-5-1 could prove more fruitful. Above is an example which allows for a huge amount of triangular passing moves between positions. This gives a lot of options for each player in their positions as there should always be a passing option available. It's allverycomplex :wink: to explain the movement of positions where you still retain the triangular patterns of passing options but hopefully you can visualise it for yourself.

This style is very much on the deck, however there are longer options available from the back as long as the wingers and striker and AM create the space for it.

Whilst I loved the 3-5-2 days I believe that the 4-5-1 can be exciting if deployed in an attacking, on the deck way. The triangles are key to it all :agree:

This would be a good system if(big if) we had an attacking midfielder to play behind Griffiths but we don't, we seem to play a 4-5-1 with 2 DM's and a normal CM, hence we have no penetration.

Iain G
26-03-2013, 08:21 AM
Kevin Thomson playing as a sweeper behind Hanlon & McPake perhaps?

We managed it before with the unorthodox fullbacks of Uli Laursen and Archie Lovell remember :greengrin

....................Williams

...................Thomson
..............McPake Hanlon
Wotherspoon..................McGivern

.......Robertson Claros Taiwo

................Doyle Griffiths

J-C
26-03-2013, 08:28 AM
Kevin Thomson playing as a sweeper behind Hanlon & McPake perhaps?

We managed it before with the unorthodox fullbacks of Uli Laursen and Archie Lovell remember :greengrin

....................Williams

...................Thomson
..............McPake Hanlon
Wotherspoon..................McGivern

.......Robertson Claros Taiwo

................Doyle Griffiths

Thing is Thompson is one of best passers around and when up to speed we'll need him in midfield to make those passes.

With your team there, Wotherspoon has severe lack of pace and work ethic and you'd miss McGivern strength in the defensive side of things, maybe Booth as a wingback would be better.

A good 3-5-2 needs 3 quick strong CH's, McPake and Hanlon lack pace, McGivern would do though.

Iain G
26-03-2013, 10:05 AM
Thing is Thompson is one of best passers around and when up to speed we'll need him in midfield to make those passes.

With your team there, Wotherspoon has severe lack of pace and work ethic and you'd miss McGivern strength in the defensive side of things, maybe Booth as a wingback would be better.

A good 3-5-2 needs 3 quick strong CH's, McPake and Hanlon lack pace, McGivern would do though.

Would hardly have classed Gary Smith and Paul Fenwick as "quick" :wink:

J-C
26-03-2013, 10:25 AM
Would hardly have classed Gary Smith and Paul Fenwick as "quick" :wink:

But you had the class of Sauzee to look after them :greengrin