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Ship Hibs
22-03-2013, 10:23 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2013, 10:27 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.


Look at the benefits though, you get to read some crazy explanations for poor performances or tactics from players and managers alike!

GreenCastle
22-03-2013, 10:33 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.

Do they have message boards in Spain...yes...no problems there.

The coaching / Scottish culture is killing our game!

This hasn't happened over night either - we have been shocking for a while.

Spain also played and won with no striker during the Euro's..didn't affect them :wink:

silverhibee
22-03-2013, 10:37 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.


Really.

lyonhibs
22-03-2013, 10:38 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.

No.

Scouse Hibee
22-03-2013, 10:39 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.


Good evening Mr Strachan a ****** night for you eh! :greengrin

marinello59
22-03-2013, 10:40 PM
No.
Professional football teams deciding that unlike any other business finishing third was the ultimate aim killed our game. They can't blame the fans for tht.

Jim44
22-03-2013, 10:45 PM
"I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go"

On the contrary, I think managers and players will have a good laugh at internet message boards.

Ship Hibs
22-03-2013, 10:45 PM
Do they have message boards in Spain...yes...no problems there.

The coaching / Scottish culture is killing our game!

This hasn't happened over night either - we have been shocking for a while.

Spain also played and won with no striker during the Euro's..didn't affect them :wink:

Yea I thought about that before posting but I reckon the massive over reactions on Scottish/British message boards is way above most other countries, I've not been on spanish sites but follow a lot of American sports and most fans seem to be a lot less critical and more supportive of their teams.
As for Spain not playing with a striker...they can pass the ball...forward! :aok:

onionman
22-03-2013, 10:47 PM
No.
Professional football teams deciding that unlike any other business finishing third was the ultimate aim killed our game. They can't blame the fans for tht.

:agree:

If managers get upset about a critism on the internet of their tactics then they have to man up.

Ship Hibs
22-03-2013, 11:04 PM
"I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go"

On the contrary, I think managers and players will have a good laugh at internet message boards.

I'm sure plenty probably will but you also get guys like Wotherspoon, quite a quiet shy lad from what I hear who must go onto these sites and read criticism of him all the time, you can't say it doesn't have an affect on him, the lads got talent anyone who seen him as a youth knew it, when he first broke into the team he looked like the next big thing but once your confidence goes and you see everybody having a pop at you you very quickly become half the player you were. I know if you're a professional sportsman you should be able to handle it but I'll bet if a lot folks on here had every decision they made at work analysed and discussed on a public forum it would very quickly change their character...maybe for the better for some :wink:

Diclonius
22-03-2013, 11:06 PM
You kids and your internet messageboards and your mobile telephones and your automated mobiles.

Eyrie
22-03-2013, 11:19 PM
To any players or managers reading this who are concerned about our online criticism, I have two things to say. One - do better in future, and two - stop reading.

CalgaryHibs
22-03-2013, 11:23 PM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.

What?? I doubt this

monktonharp
22-03-2013, 11:57 PM
I'm sure plenty probably will but you also get guys like Wotherspoon, quite a quiet shy lad from what I hear who must go onto these sites and read criticism of him all the time, you can't say it doesn't have an affect on him, the lads got talent anyone who seen him as a youth knew it, when he first broke into the team he looked like the next big thing but once your confidence goes and you see everybody having a pop at you you very quickly become half the player you were. I know if you're a professional sportsman you should be able to handle it but I'll bet if a lot folks on here had every decision they made at work analysed and discussed on a public forum it would very quickly change their character...maybe for the better for some :wink:

hope spoony does have a wee peek at what's said. get yer erse in gear mr. widdenheid! prove you are a fitba' player, as we know you've looked guid on occasions.

monktonharp
23-03-2013, 12:01 AM
.[/QUOTE]I hope that mr widdenheid does have a peek occaionaly. get yer erse in gear spoony. we've seen you do a guid job on occasions

Beefster
23-03-2013, 12:08 AM
Yea I thought about that before posting but I reckon the massive over reactions on Scottish/British message boards is way above most other countries, I've not been on spanish sites but follow a lot of American sports and most fans seem to be a lot less critical and more supportive of their teams.
As for Spain not playing with a striker...they can pass the ball...forward! :aok:

Without wishing to be rude, that's guff.

Jones28
23-03-2013, 01:07 AM
Nobody tells players/managers to read message boards, if they do it and it affects their game/confidence then it's obvious: pretend they don't exist. I would if I was a footballer...mind you, I'm ****ing good at football so probably wouldn't have a problem reading them :greengrin:

Mibbes Aye
23-03-2013, 01:25 AM
It's easy to say that players or managers shouldn't read what was said about them in social media, or just ignore it.

I suspect the truth is that most of us would struggle not to look if we knew people were talking about us on Twitter, Facebook or a messageboard, especially if we knew it was in relation to how we were performing at work!

Some people might be able to ride above criticism but I suspect far more would take it to heart than are willing to confess on here and that can obviously have an impact on performance.

I don't think it's even anything new. Jacques Plante was one of the all-time greats in North American ice hockey, a serial winner and an innovator, in the 1950s and 60s.

As he said, "...How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?" :greengrin

lord bunberry
23-03-2013, 01:40 AM
Starting to wonder how much an affect internet message boards are having on our game. Managers and players alike just seem so scared these days. Most SPL clubs have started to pack the midfield and rely on one up front and seem like they just want to avoid defeat rather than go out and win, players seem scared to take on another player in a one on one situation instead relying on playing the simple pass to a team mate who's usually quickly closed down. I'm beginning to think this stems from managers and players reading these boards and not liking the criticism they get so they resort to taking the easy option rather than having a go. Even under one of the dullest managers ever (Alex Miller) we played with proper wingers and two up front and players like Weir, McAllister and O'neill to name a few all seemed to play with a certain freedom I've not seen at Easter Road for the last four or five years.

I think you give far to much credit to the influence message boards have. I doubt message boards are a fair reflection of a teams support

3pm
23-03-2013, 06:45 AM
Fenlon and Petrie should embrace the internet. Could save a fortune by listening to expert coaches and fag packet accountants on here.

The Harp
23-03-2013, 07:35 AM
I think you give far to much credit to the influence message boards have. I doubt message boards are a fair reflection of a teams support

Spot on! There's a far greater number of Hibs fans out there who don't post on message boards than those who do.

HH81
23-03-2013, 07:56 AM
Fenlon and Petrie should embrace the internet. Could save a fortune by listening to expert coaches and fag packet accountants on here.

Last season the manager of my rugby team signed up to their message bowrd and posted his plans for the season etc...

He then started replying to posts, top guy he was shame he has left.

Brizo
23-03-2013, 08:04 AM
If anything tinternet has given those who want to slag players a non match day opportunity to vent their spleen so that by the time it comes to match day the level of abuse is far less imho than it was pre internet.

A previous poster mentioned Alex MIllers teams. i remember guys like Joe Tortolano and Brian Hamilton getting slaughtered from the terracing each week, sometimes before they even took to the pitch. They got it far tighter than internet era players like Konte or Jarko Whizz. i remember Craig Pattersons first game back at ER for the currant buns and he got the whats it like to be a hun treatment for the full 90 minutes; the treatment KT got when he returned was mild in comparison.

Players have the option to avoid the message boards,they cant avoid abuse from the stands. FWIW i think the boards have played their part in reducing the amount of match day abuse. I think there are a whole set of other reasons why the standard of our game is so poor.

VickMackie
23-03-2013, 08:22 AM
I think message boards help build negative attitudes quite quickly and that can only be a bad thing.

The message boards have a contagion effect. A few people moan about something and point out a weakness, some others who never noticed the weakness then start to look for it and so on. Then that transfers into the stands IMO.

Phil D. Rolls
23-03-2013, 08:47 AM
I'm sure plenty probably will but you also get guys like Wotherspoon, quite a quiet shy lad from what I hear who must go onto these sites and read criticism of him all the time, you can't say it doesn't have an affect on him, the lads got talent anyone who seen him as a youth knew it, when he first broke into the team he looked like the next big thing but once your confidence goes and you see everybody having a pop at you you very quickly become half the player you were. I know if you're a professional sportsman you should be able to handle it but I'll bet if a lot folks on here had every decision they made at work analysed and discussed on a public forum it would very quickly change their character...maybe for the better for some :wink:

Compared to the abuse Benny Brazil took, this place is a teddy bear's picnic.

Mr White
23-03-2013, 09:28 AM
I think message boards help build negative attitudes quite quickly and that can only be a bad thing.

The message boards have a contagion effect. A few people moan about something and point out a weakness, some others who never noticed the weakness then start to look for it and so on. Then that transfers into the stands IMO.
the spreading of rumours too, liam miller to hearts for example couldn't have gathered the pace it did before the internet age.

hibsmad
23-03-2013, 11:18 AM
Do they have message boards in Spain...yes...no problems there.

The coaching / Scottish culture is killing our game!

This hasn't happened over night either - we have been shocking for a while.

Spain also played and won with no striker during the Euro's..didn't affect them :wink:

:agree:

People talk about us not having the likes of a Dalglish or a Souness anymore, but the truth is that football has moved on while we have stood still. So many other countries are way ahead of us now technically, countries that focus on basic technique by implementing things such as seven a side matches where the ball cant go above head height for school kids. I mean it's not rocket science! Meanwhile over in Scotland it's a regular occurrence to see some overweight Dad scream at his ten year old son things like "go right through him!" or "empty it!"

Brizo
23-03-2013, 11:38 AM
So many other countries are way ahead of us now technically, countries that focus on basic technique by implementing things such as seven a side matches where the ball cant go above head height for school kids. I mean it's not rocket science! Meanwhile over in Scotland it's a regular occurrence to see some overweight Dad scream at his ten year old son things like "go right through him!" or "empty it!"

Seven a side non competitive leagues have been operating in Scotland at youth club and primary school level since the early 90s. As have various other small side initiatives. The problem is that the minute games become competitive coachs who the week before were telling kids to express themselves suddenly show their true "out the park for medals" mentality. That is particularly prevelant in the youth game more than the schools side of things. Some of the biggest culprits in youth fitba are clubs who like to promote themselves as being all about player development when the truth is its all about winning.

marinello59
23-03-2013, 11:46 AM
Seven a side non competitive leagues have been operating in Scotland at youth club and primary school level since the early 90s. As have various other small side initiatives. The problem is that the minute games become competitive coachs who the week before were telling kids to express themselves suddenly show their true "out the park for medals" mentality. That is particularly prevelant in the youth game more than the schools side of things. Some of the biggest culprits in youth fitba are clubs who like to promote themselves as being all about player development when the truth is its all about winning.

They were still playing competitive 11 a side games at P6 level in Aberdeen until this year. It was only the threat of a withdrawal of funding that saw the 7 a side game introduced. It's still played in a competitive spirit though with multiple cup competitions. Truly depressing.

VickMackie
23-03-2013, 12:25 PM
the spreading of rumours too, liam miller to hearts for example couldn't have gathered the pace it did before the internet age.

:agree:

truehibernian
23-03-2013, 12:55 PM
:agree:

People talk about us not having the likes of a Dalglish or a Souness anymore, but the truth is that football has moved on while we have stood still. So many other countries are way ahead of us now technically, countries that focus on basic technique by implementing things such as seven a side matches where the ball cant go above head height for school kids. I mean it's not rocket science! Meanwhile over in Scotland it's a regular occurrence to see some overweight Dad scream at his ten year old son things like "go right through him!" or "empty it!"

One of my bug bears is this 'we are not producing a Dalglish' type player anymore - the fact is, back in the 1960's, football was quite literally all a young boy would want to play (disclaimer - there are of course other sports :greengrin). There did of course exist the pub culture and gangs, however things like alcohol was far more controlled and there was also of course the local bobby kicking you up the backside culture too (whether right or wrong it worked for me :greengrin). They also had an education system that had football and sport at the core - the EIS strike/work to rule way back in the 80's, I feel, had a huge and disabling impact on young people playing football - teachers simply didn't want to give up their time, which had been voluntary, to take kids for football. As a result, the school football/sports teams as we knew them, kind of died a little - or that's what happened with me and my schools in the area I lived.

Young people today are surrounded with fascinating things that simply didn't exist back then - mobile phones, PSP's, Xbox's, alcopops, cannabis, Facebook, legal highs, internet chat rooms, fashion, etc etc etc - add into the mix, my thoughts on society these days are that we have all been spoon fed a little, some of us (parents) are a little bit more cautious in letting kids go out (fear of the day that might never happen type thing), parks around Edinburgh are not really 'accommodating' to kids playing football til they can't see the end of their feet 'cos it's that dark. I want to see as many multi-sports centres built as possible, but back then these things didn't matter - all that was needed was a ball, coats for posts, and as much light as possible to see the ball !

We have turned into 1) a nanny type state and 2) the polar extreme of that - a society that now tolerates and accepts what we'd all regard as poor behaviour, rather than tackle it, invest in youth, invest in communities properly, and stop hand-outs.

I can only speak for my son - the old adage my dad used to tell me, the 'you've never had it so good' - I find myself saying that now too (annoyingly). Given the choice of playing football today, or staying in and playing Call of Duty- my lad would do the latter. He likes football, but just didn't have the same enthusiasm or buzz I had - I wanted to kick a ball 24 hours a day, any weather, any time, anywhere.

I worked with a Spanish girl this week and we debated the difference in the societies - of course Spain isn't exempt from it's own problems and 'yoof culture' issues - but she remarked on how easy it is for anyone in the UK to just 'get things' - in other words, they don't really have to earn it, want to earn it - they just simply expect and demand it as their right. I know that's off topic, but it boils down to really earning things - whether that's respect or money. We are not demanding enough as a society and our standards slipping reflect that (in my humble opinion). People take, but give little back I think was the point.

You look at that magical irony in the UK and Scotland - we charge more than anyone and take more in tax than anyone else, for the things that are bad for us - fags and bevvy - yet we are still the one of the unhealthiest nations in the EU and the world with the highest mortality rates. We probably have allowed more boozers per head than any nation, and our penalties for drug taking etc are to be honest, a 'price worth paying' given the dividends at the end of the day. Seems to me that we as a nation send out mixed messages and a message that says drink, smoke and be as merry as you want to be - cos really, there ain't much punishment for doing so, and hey, everyone else is doing it. As such, kids perhaps look and say - why not eh, rather than dig in and play sport.

fat freddy
23-03-2013, 01:06 PM
Seven a side non competitive leagues have been operating in Scotland at youth club and primary school level since the early 90s. As have various other small side initiatives. The problem is that the minute games become competitive coachs who the week before were telling kids to express themselves suddenly show their true "out the park for medals" mentality. That is particularly prevelant in the youth game more than the schools side of things. Some of the biggest culprits in youth fitba are clubs who like to promote themselves as being all about player development when the truth is its all about winning.



i see this every week...many coaches and parents are only interested in winning and i have seen coaches completely ignoring their own players fouling if it gains their team an advantage...i recently highlighted to a coach of a famous edinburgh youth team that one of his players was kicking anything that got passed him yet he hadn't even commented to his player about playing within the rules of the game (this was 4 a side under 6's with no referee)..the guy just ignored me and took the whole team off the pitch....a few weeks later i saw this same coaches picture on the wall at riccarton...he coaches one of hearts youth teams..if this is the mentality that we are allowing our young players to foster then we will continue to be a footballing backwater.