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lord bunberry
18-03-2013, 08:20 PM
I'm just watching the Irish football on sky and its being played on an artificial pitch. Is it time Scottish clubs went down this route.

snooky
18-03-2013, 08:23 PM
I'm just watching the Irish football on sky and its being played on an artificial pitch. Is it time Scottish clubs went down this route.

Naw, but it might suit the plastic paddies though :wink:

bingo70
18-03-2013, 08:24 PM
I think so, it might not be as good as grass but It's better than mud and that's what we play on most of the season, plus it'd be another way of making money if it could be hired out.

madabouthibs
18-03-2013, 08:25 PM
My lad trains on that 3G stuff at Broxburn Juniors ground, its superb that surface! :agree:

Hibhibhooray
18-03-2013, 08:30 PM
I think so, it might not be as good as grass but It's better than mud and that's what we play on most of the season, plus it'd be another way of making money if it could be hired out.
They are now playing rugby on artificial pitches in England, so why not football

lord bunberry
18-03-2013, 08:36 PM
I think so, it might not be as good as grass but It's better than mud and that's what we play on most of the season, plus it'd be another way of making money if it could be hired out.

That's the way I was looking at it. Its all very well people saying its not as good as grass but for more than half the season most club's pitches are so bare that you can hardly see any grass

LaMotta
18-03-2013, 09:49 PM
My lad trains on that 3G stuff at Broxburn Juniors ground, its superb that surface! :agree:

Played a full ninety mins on that pitch and its brilliant. 3 or 4g better than grass imo. Certainly for players who like to dribble and pass the ball on the deck!

JoeTortolanoFanClub
18-03-2013, 09:57 PM
I play on a 4G pitch every week. It is fantastic.

Macaroon
18-03-2013, 10:01 PM
Another Hibs first?

Prawn Sandwich
18-03-2013, 10:29 PM
Summer football is the answer.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
18-03-2013, 10:36 PM
In order of preference:

1. Summer football
2. Plastic pitches



99. Muddy / sandy / cabbage patches.

ScottB
18-03-2013, 10:42 PM
Don't Arsenal have a mix of artificial and grass? Could be the way forward in the short term at least.

i don't think summer football would help our surfaces, judging by how wet our summers have been in recent years!

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2013, 10:28 AM
Scottish clubs in the main have poor pitches for quite a fair chunk of the season, and for that reason i'd be in favour of the 4-5G pitches. Although i'd also be in favour of summer football too.

sleeping giant
19-03-2013, 11:11 AM
My lad trains on that 3G stuff at Broxburn Juniors ground, its superb that surface! :agree:

What age group mate. My boy plays for the under 14's

I agree about the pitch. Feels better than grass :-)

goosefat
19-03-2013, 11:16 AM
Don't Arsenal have a mix of artificial and grass? Could be the way forward in the short term at least.

i don't think summer football would help our surfaces, judging by how wet our summers have been in recent years!

Regardless of how wet it is, grass always grows in the summer and not nearly as much in the winter, hence the reason that 3 months into the season pitches become chopped up and can't recover. Playing football in the summer would at least give a chance for pitches to maintain some level of quality for a larger part of the season. The argument that just because our summers aren't great we shouldn’t bother with summer football doesn’t really fly – in terms of grass growth, spring/summer is always better than autumn/winter no matter how poor the spring/summers are.

Artificial pitches (although they do also need a level of skilled maintenance) would allow the purists who love to watch football in the depths of winter without any feeling in their hands and feet to continue this joyous experience.

Scouse Hibee
19-03-2013, 11:21 AM
Not for me, I didn't like them the first time in the 80's when Luton and QPR had them. Unless every club has them they give the home team an advantage.

derekHFC
19-03-2013, 11:33 AM
Not for me, I didn't like them the first time in the 80's when Luton and QPR had them.The quality has changed somewhat since then.

Scouse Hibee
19-03-2013, 11:35 AM
The quality has changed somewhat since then.


I know, my point still stands though.

JimBHibees
19-03-2013, 11:44 AM
I think it is undoubtedly the way ahead for a number of reasons one of which is it encourages teams to pass the ball on the deck, secondly the standard of them are IMO better than grass and also the revenue aspect of the surface being used for numerous community events without affecting the pitch.

Ozyhibby
19-03-2013, 11:47 AM
I think it's crazy that we don't have an artificial pitch. The new surface at Spartans is better than any pitch in the SPL.

truehibernian
19-03-2013, 11:54 AM
I think it is undoubtedly the way ahead for a number of reasons one of which is it encourages teams to pass the ball on the deck, secondly the standard of them are IMO better than grass and also the revenue aspect of the surface being used for numerous community events without affecting the pitch.

There is an obvious skills set advantage with training on 3/4G as you point out Jim. All the academies train on it daily and it most certainly encourages a passing game, tempo and better all round technique. I'd be all for it as the standard would improve across the board - the downside is that it would need to be universal across the division in my opinion. We've already seen how very poor grass surfaces change games and the outcomes/standard of games here in Scotland. Level playing fields (pardon the pun) would need to be the way forward.

Going from a 4G pitch to say the likes of Pittodrie's current surface - would be like night and day.

Ricky Bobby
19-03-2013, 12:03 PM
It's time football at levels in Scotland was played on artificial parks. It leads to a better standard of football and improves the skills of players as they dont feel the need to punt it at the earliest opportunity due to fear of a dodgy bounce before they control it. Not to mention the our weather conditions.

JimBHibees
19-03-2013, 12:13 PM
There is an obvious skills set advantage with training on 3/4G as you point out Jim. All the academies train on it daily and it most certainly encourages a passing game, tempo and better all round technique. I'd be all for it as the standard would improve across the board - the downside is that it would need to be universal across the division in my opinion. We've already seen how very poor grass surfaces change games and the outcomes/standard of games here in Scotland. Level playing fields (pardon the pun) would need to be the way forward.

Going from a 4G pitch to say the likes of Pittodrie's current surface - would be like night and day.

Completely agree I think all teams should have them. Certainly makes complete sense for smaller clubs like Alloa and Montrose to have them and also allow the local community to use them significantly also.

MB62
19-03-2013, 12:13 PM
Not for me, I didn't like them the first time in the 80's when Luton and QPR had them. Unless every club has them they give the home team an advantage.

I was 100% of the same opinion back in those days. However, things have improved so much since then that I have now changed my mind. Playing at home is meant to give you and advantage so I don't really agree with that opinion, you might as well say one team cuts their grass a lot shorter than we would play on at ER so that's not fair.
When I was in Oz in November, my niece had artificial grass as her front 'lawn' and honestly, you could hardly feel the difference from the real stuff, I was mega impressed.
I certainly think now, with the vast improvement in artificial surfaces from that of the 80's, we are not far off seeing this introduced and I wouldn't be against Hibs getting it now. As others have said, it has to be an improvement on the mud that we play on at Easter Road in recent times, and maybe save money in the long run too.

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2013, 12:19 PM
I was 100% of the same opinion back in those days. However, things have improved so much since then that I have now changed my mind. Playing at home is meant to give you and advantage so I don't really agree with that opinion, you might as well say one team cuts their grass a lot shorter than we would play on at ER so that's not fair.
When I was in Oz in November, my niece had artificial grass as her front 'lawn' and honestly, you could hardly feel the difference from the real stuff, I was mega impressed.
I certainly think now, with the vast improvement in artificial surfaces from that of the 80's, we are not far off seeing this introduced and I wouldn't be against Hibs getting it now. As others have said, it has to be an improvement on the mud that we play on at Easter Road in recent times, and maybe save money in the long run too.

I actually played on the one at Luton, and it really just was a flat carpet that happened to be green. I have not seen the new ones, but they look completely different. Its like saying i went on a train once in the 80s, i wont fly on an plane now?

Scouse Hibee
19-03-2013, 12:24 PM
I actually played on the one at Luton, and it really just was a flat carpet that happened to be green. I have not seen the new ones, but they look completely different. Its like saying i went on a train once in the 80s, i wont fly on an plane now?

Did trains in the eighties fly, or planes ran on rails.

bingo70
19-03-2013, 12:27 PM
I actually played on the one at Luton, and it really just was a flat carpet that happened to be green. I have not seen the new ones, but they look completely different. Its like saying i went on a train once in the 80s, i wont fly on an plane now?

Think John burridge refused to play on that pitch cos it was so bad.

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2013, 12:34 PM
Did trains in the eighties fly, or planes ran on rails.

:faf:

Aldo
19-03-2013, 12:54 PM
Played on loads of poor artificial surfaces back in the 90's and these surfaces wrecked my knees (tight one in particular))

one day maybe...
19-03-2013, 01:13 PM
Having played on Alloa's park I can say that it is of a far far better quality than most supposedly grass parks. I would be all for SPL introducing these 4G parks, I am sure it would contribute to an improved standard of football in Scotland.

Mister P
19-03-2013, 02:20 PM
Football since its invention has always been played on grass..... Because that's all there was, until now!
I have played on 3G,4G for over 6 years now every season and can honestly say its 1000% better than grass in this country. Agreed the plastic crap in the 80s was horrendous, but the new modern stuff is nothing like it. I think it's time for football to evolve and move towards whatever technologies are available to allow us to progress and develop the sport

Judas Iscariot
19-03-2013, 02:29 PM
Football since its invention has always been played on grass..... Because that's all there was, until now!
I have played on 3G,4G for over 6 years now every season and can honestly say its 1000% better than grass in this country. Agreed the plastic crap in the 80s was horrendous, but the new modern stuff is nothing like it. I think it's time for football to evolve and move towards whatever technologies are available to allow us to progress and develop the sport

Using the term very loosely there :wink:

Mister P
19-03-2013, 03:23 PM
Bollox to ye, my points still valid.

Keith_M
19-03-2013, 03:34 PM
Wasn't there an experiment in the SPL a few years back with Dunfermline?


I seem to remember Martin O'Neil (I think) complaining that it caused injuries to his players and the Dunfy chairman's reply was that a lot more players had been injured by Bobo Balde** than the artificial pitch :greengrin







** I think Celtc, in their usual humourless mode, demanded an apology

madabouthibs
19-03-2013, 05:00 PM
What age group mate. My boy plays for the under 14's

I agree about the pitch. Feels better than grass :-)

Wee fella plays under 14's too, Badgers. He's on trial just now, played 3 games. :agree:

truehibernian
19-03-2013, 05:13 PM
Wasn't there an experiment in the SPL a few years back with Dunfermline?


I seem to remember Martin O'Neil (I think) complaining that it caused injuries to his players and the Dunfy chairman's reply was that a lot more players had been injured by Bobo Balde** than the artificial pitch :greengrin







** I think Celtc, in their usual humourless mode, demanded an apology

Don't know if they actually played a competitive game on it keekaboo but you are correct - Ian Rush was up to promote the event, stayed at The Glasshouse next to the Playhouse. If he made the game next day he'd have had a right sore heid judging by the drinks he was knocking back in Mood :greengrin My female colleague got his autograph on a rather intimate part(s) (upper body may I add :greengrin).

MSK
19-03-2013, 05:23 PM
Don't know if they actually played a competitive game on it keekaboo but you are correct - Ian Rush was up to promote the event, stayed at The Glasshouse next to the Playhouse. If he made the game next day he'd have had a right sore heid judging by the drinks he was knocking back in Mood :greengrin My female colleague got his autograph on a rather intimate part(s) (upper body may I add :greengrin).Think they did ..I remember a Dunfermline fan running on after they scored & he done a "Klinnsman"...& ripped a lair of skin off his belly ...:greengrin

truehibernian
19-03-2013, 05:30 PM
Think they did ..I remember a Dunfermline fan running on after they scored & he done a "Klinnsman"...& ripped a lair of skin off his belly ...:greengrin

I think you're right mate, just know Rush was up as a rep for the company who made the turf (or so he said). I do recall having the wierdest conversation about his FA Cup win versus Everton whilst we stood 'lilian gished' next to each other in the toilets :greengrin quite a bizarre time to find out he was actually an Everton fan growing up :faf:

MSK
19-03-2013, 05:50 PM
I think you're right mate, just know Rush was up as a rep for the company who made the turf (or so he said). I do recall having the wierdest conversation about his FA Cup win versus Everton whilst we stood 'lilian gished' next to each other in the toilets :greengrin quite a bizarre time to find out he was actually an Everton fan growing up :faf:Was it not Rush & Platini ..?,...both were endorsing it for UEFA as the new super kind o astro turf ..it came in squares & clicked together..Dunfermline got it installed for nowt for trialling it but it was lifted & binned after just a season because of players getting injured ..or it was just crap ..:greengrin

Haymaker
19-03-2013, 05:59 PM
Always struggled on the old style, sand based one at my school and I trained on it for my local side. Always came off with my knees and ankles screaming at me.

Played and trained on the rubber crumb versions and never come off badly now.

Scouse Hibee
19-03-2013, 06:16 PM
I think you're right mate, just know Rush was up as a rep for the company who made the turf (or so he said). I do recall having the wierdest conversation about his FA Cup win versus Everton whilst we stood 'lilian gished' next to each other in the toilets :greengrin quite a bizarre time to find out he was actually an Everton fan growing up :faf:


Which one :greengrin

truehibernian
19-03-2013, 06:19 PM
Which one :greengrin

Very true, there were a couple - we chatted about the 3-1 game, best Liverpool team I can remember seeing to be honest. They had everything that side, top class players all over the pitch.

Scouse Hibee
19-03-2013, 06:23 PM
Very true, there were a couple - we chatted about the 3-1 game, best Liverpool team I can remember seeing to be honest. They had everything that side, top class players all over the pitch.


:greengrin Oh that one. The Evertonians put that particular Wembley defeat down to a Gary Stephens error allowing us back into the game!

hibeemarley
19-03-2013, 07:20 PM
I play on 3g & 4g parks and it has destroyed my legs. Martin O'neill was right. I know a lot who complain of similar injuries.

I would say Summer football:

- more folk would go surely?!
- better surface
- better chance of doing well in european knockout rounds
- more chance of a suntan rather than a cold

just my thoughts. Maybe a poll to see what folk think would be a good idea

sleeping giant
19-03-2013, 09:11 PM
Wee fella plays under 14's too, Badgers. He's on trial just now, played 3 games. :agree:

Small world :greengrin

I've watched that team grow up. It was split into 2 teams a couple of years ago. My laddie plays with the colts.
I know most of the laddies in the badgers.


Hows he enjoying it ?

We're in the semi of the county cup. The final will be played at Livi stadium.
We just got beat 4-3 from Livi ACBC who we also play next week in the semi.


Are you Logans Dad ?

madabouthibs
19-03-2013, 09:23 PM
Small world :greengrin

I've watched that team grow up. It was split into 2 teams a couple of years ago. My laddie plays with the colts.
I know most of the laddies in the badgers.


Hows he enjoying it ?

We're in the semi of the county cup. The final will be played at Livi stadium.
We just got beat 4-3 from Livi ACBC who we also play next week in the semi.


Are you Logans Dad ?

Na, Brad's dad.... so his maw says anyway! :greengrin
He's loving it, they were training at Stewartfield last night, in that blizzard! :tee hee: Bit keen.....
3 defeats he's played in, but they're struggling for numbers, which is very disappointing. I'm loving it too, I thought he'd lost interest in football after he left Livi Lions last season after a couple of games, but I think the fact he knows most of the Broxburn lads makes a difference. I'm just hoping they want to sign him. :agree:

WellingtonHibby
20-03-2013, 05:13 AM
Ive played on the 4G and 5G over here and at Sighthill. I think its brilliant and a great surface to play, but I have seen two guys do thier achillies playing on it just by turning funny. not sure if its bad luck or the surface itself

Craig_in_Prague
20-03-2013, 06:09 AM
summer football instead for me.

also Hibs would win the league, seen as we'd avoid our November to February slump :-)

cocopops1875
20-03-2013, 07:04 AM
Wasn't there an experiment in the SPL a few years back with Dunfermline?


I seem to remember Martin O'Neil (I think) complaining that it caused injuries to his players and the Dunfy chairman's reply was that a lot more players had been injured by Bobo Balde** than the artificial pitch :greengrin







** I think Celtc, in their usual humourless mode, demanded an apology


Don't know if they actually played a competitive game on it keekaboo but you are correct - Ian Rush was up to promote the event, stayed at The Glasshouse next to the Playhouse. If he made the game next day he'd have had a right sore heid judging by the drinks he was knocking back in Mood :greengrin My female colleague got his autograph on a rather intimate part(s) (upper body may I add :greengrin).


Think they did ..I remember a Dunfermline fan running on after they scored & he done a "Klinnsman"...& ripped a lair of skin off his belly ...:greengrin


Was it not Rush & Platini ..?,...both were endorsing it for UEFA as the new super kind o astro turf ..it came in squares & clicked together..Dunfermline got it installed for nowt for trialling it but it was lifted & binned after just a season because of players getting injured ..or it was just crap ..:greengrin

The had it for 1 season and in that time it payed for its self by hiring it out, It was an early system and we are now up the the 5th generation so quality has moved on massively since then, That said it was a decent surface but footwear choice for the pros was an issue this is no longer a problem as mentioned they can take a rugby stud now

MB62
20-03-2013, 12:54 PM
A wee story in 'The Sun' today says Queen of the South are to rip up their grass pitch and put down a plastic one in time for the new season. Will be interesting to see how that works out for them.

stantonhibby
20-03-2013, 01:30 PM
The had it for 1 season and in that time it payed for its self by hiring it out, It was an early system and we are now up the the 5th generation so quality has moved on massively since then, That said it was a decent surface but footwear choice for the pros was an issue this is no longer a problem as mentioned they can take a rugby stud now


First ever game on it was against us I think ?

cocopops1875
20-03-2013, 03:13 PM
First ever game on it was against us I think ?
It was Stantonhibby, If i recall it was a tile system each tile being 2-3meters square it clicked together like laminate flooring,it was far better than anything i had played on at that point but as i said earlier the quality much improved since then. I also remember it really made a mess of you in the slide tackle :greengrin loads of wee fine cuts that took forever to heal

Scouse Hibee
20-03-2013, 03:44 PM
Uefa brands Pars' pitch a failure






http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39514000/jpg/_39514243_pitchpieces270.jpg Dunfermline's artificial pitch has been widely criticised




Uefa has admitted that the experiment with an artificial pitch at Dunfermline has been a failure.
"The surface is not the best artificial turf that there is," William Gaillard, director of communications at Uefa, told BBC Radio Scotland.
"And the new standard, that will be established in the next few weeks, will be much superior and more natural than the one used in Scotland.
"Only a cow could tell between real grass and the new generation turf."
Dunfermline were given a Uefa grant to install a synthetic surface in September 2003 but now say the pitch is not good enough.
Other pitches were installed in Austria, Russia, Sweden, Turkey and the Netherlands at the same time.
"We experimented with different grounds, with different companies supplying the turf," Gaillard continued.
"And we have analysed the merits and shortcomings of each over the course of a season.
"We are now dealing with a fifth generation turf that is of a standard beyond any of those used around Europe."
Uefa will allow teams using the new approved surface to play on it in their Champions' League and Uefa Cup competitions.
Dunfermline chairman John Yorkston told BBC Sport last weekend that the much criticised pitch at East End Park will be replaced before the end of this season. However, he did not reveal the date of the operation, or the type of surface that will be installed.

I hope the new ones are better!

GreenCastle
20-03-2013, 03:52 PM
The myths of 4g and 5g pitches - they are all 3g!!

http://www.softsurfaces.co.uk/blog/surface-products-types-options-texture-feel/4g-grass-football-pitch-sports-surfacing-synthetic-turf-carpet

http://www.softsurfaces.co.uk/blog/5g-synthetic-turf-pitch/3rd-4th-5th-6th-generation-sports-pitches-difference-in-specification

--------
20-03-2013, 04:44 PM
I'm just watching the Irish football on sky and its being played on an artificial pitch. Is it time Scottish clubs went down this route.


Short answer - YES!

The synthetic pitches available now are way better than the one laid at EEP - that pitch was a trial installation and not even the best available at that time, so the Pars rather drew the short straw with it.

What's available now is very good indeed. Hamilton Accies had one at Douglas Park for a while and encountered no problems or complaints whatsoever, and there have been improvements since then, so Queens should find no difficulties with theirs. If the Russian and Ukrainians can play Champions' League matches and Europa League matches on synthetics, there's not reason we couldn't play SPL games on one.

It would make a lot more sense than having a "winter break" during two weeks of the best weather this winter, and then playing on through the sort of stuff we're suffering right now.

It also would mean that the pitch could be used much more intensively than at present, which should mean another source of income.