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View Full Version : NHC McManaman tackle (Wigan v Magpies)



DaveF
18-03-2013, 08:24 AM
Did anyone see this last night on MOTD2? He did get a touch on the ball, but his follow through snapped the Newcastle player in half.

I do think the referee was unsighted but clearly the lino has been taking tips from Raymond Whyte on how not to see things.

I would assume McManaman will probably sit out a fair chunk of the remaining game for that one.

Steve-O
18-03-2013, 08:26 AM
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8378/8564708205_8fbe228daf_o.gif

HIBERNIAN-0762
18-03-2013, 08:33 AM
The guy followed right through in my opinion, a disgraceful tackle and a leg breaker, he should be looking at 4 game ban at least, everyone saw it bar the officials of course, and that Mark Halsey must be one of the worst refs in the EPL by the way.

EdinMike
18-03-2013, 08:39 AM
Now i've seen it, it looks bad.

The worst thing about it is the Newc boy had his leg planted which makes the impact much worse.

Sore one !

HibernianJK
18-03-2013, 08:40 AM
Although it's a disgraceful tackle. I think he tries so hoof the ball away and just gets beaten too it. Unlucky but looks very bad

Baldy
18-03-2013, 08:43 AM
the tackle yesterday was nothing compared to the one from France on Rangers former player Jeremy Clement .. the guy who did it got banned until June


http://youtu.be/ItjwBXKHAEk

Andy74
18-03-2013, 09:18 AM
The ball spins back a bit in the bounce. He's trying to boot the ball at first then gets in a mess. Looks bad but don't think it was really meant.

Pretty Boy
18-03-2013, 09:21 AM
Looks bad but he is definitely trying to get to the ball.

Careless rather than malicious imo.

hibsbollah
18-03-2013, 09:23 AM
A 50/50 challenge, as Ryan Stevenson would say.

Steve-O
18-03-2013, 09:26 AM
http://d3fsqtc6sy2z27.cloudfront.net/uploads/c42cee3ff562d58fabaf4346cb7338c1_large

lord bunberry
18-03-2013, 09:27 AM
A 50/50 challenge, as Ryan Stevenson would say.

Its a man's game. This is a mountain out of a molehole

Hermit Crab
18-03-2013, 09:59 AM
the tackle yesterday was nothing compared to the one from France on Rangers former player Jeremy Clement .. the guy who did it got banned until June


http://youtu.be/ItjwBXKHAEk

That's a shocker. Broken ankle/leg there?

lapsedhibee
18-03-2013, 10:17 AM
That's a shocker. Broken ankle/leg there?

Fracture ouverte du tibia-péroné.

Baldy
18-03-2013, 01:18 PM
That's a shocker. Broken ankle/leg there?

It happened 2 weeks ago and Reports in France are his career is over

JimBHibees
18-03-2013, 01:22 PM
Looks bad but he is definitely trying to get to the ball.

Careless rather than malicious imo.

I would agree with that he is clearly looking to play the ball and then catches the guy accidently. Looks worse than it was IMO.

--------
18-03-2013, 02:02 PM
I would agree with that he is clearly looking to play the ball and then catches the guy accidently. Looks worse than it was IMO.

I was watching the game, Jim, and the challenge looked very bad at the time. In afterthought and after sight, I have to say it looks a horrible challenge - not a 'tackle' in any real sense of the word - and could very well have done serious damage to Haidara. We won't know whether that damage IS serious, or whether Haidara has been lucky and the injury proves to be less serious than it appears, until we hear the hospital reports.

I shouls say, though, that the Newcastle coach is old enough and experienced enough to have known better than to go after McManaman at half-time

The only hopeful sign I took from the pictures was that McManaman hit Haidara above the knee rather than below - there's more muscle there and the bone is better protected and stronger than below the knee. Of course, the knee ligaments are just as vulnerable, and that's where the worry for Haidara's condition lies.

However, 'looking to play the ball' and 'catching the guy accidentally' really don't cut cut here, in my opinion. If that had been a Hearts player 'tackling' one of ours I think we'd have all been on here calling for the death penalty (at least) for the Jambo (and for the officials who missed the incident).

It was a very reckless challenge, at speed, studs up, 2 feet off the ground. Whether he touched the ball first is irrelevant - the follow-through was inevitably going to lead to a collision with Haidara's leg.

Maybe there's a natural sympathy with a young player making his debut, but however hyped-up McManaman was he has a responsibility to his fellow-professionals, a 'duty of care' which he should have observed. I can't see any way the FA can deal with him than with a fairly lengthy suspension.

I have to say I don't think that Martinez and Whelan are doing themselves any favours with what they're saying to the press. Not when it's still not clear how badly the Newcastle player is injured.

There's a fair bit of sense in what Robbie Savage says here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21823415) - though I would still say that someone at Wigan urgently needs to take young McManaman aside and teach him how to tackle safely and legally.

lapsedhibee
18-03-2013, 02:12 PM
However, 'looking to play the ball' and 'catching the guy accidentally' really don't cut cut here, in my opinion.

It was a very reckless challenge, at speed, studs up, 2 feet off the ground. Whether he touched the ball first is irrelevant - the follow-through was inevitably going to lead to a collision with Haidara's leg.

:agree:


I have to say I don't think that Martinez and Whelan are doing themselves any favours with what they're saying to the press.

:agree: What Martinez has been saying reeks of Pulis dribbling on about what a lovely lad Shawcross was when he'd just done his best to end Ramsey's career. Previously thought of those two managers as diametrically opposed in outlook.

--------
18-03-2013, 02:20 PM
:agree: What Martinez has been saying reeks of Pulis dribbling on about what a lovely lad Shawcross was when he'd just done his best to end Ramsey's career. Previously thought of those two managers as diametrically opposed in outlook.



Yup. I accept that McManaman was making his debut and would have been well charged-up, but he can be the nicest lad in the EPL - the challenge was extremely reckless and a suspension's inevitable, surely.

As for Whelan's comments, anyone my age hearing the words 'over the ball' knows exactly what we're hearing - we're hearing about a thug deliberately tackling an opponent in such a way as to cause him injury while himself getting away scot-free. IMO that wasn't the case here - this was a case of a young and inexperienced player launching a reckless challenge that should have led to a red card and which needs to be dealt with by the FA with an appropriate suspension.

I can accept that there was no malicious intent, but that's not the point. The challenge was reckless and illegal. The referee missed it (seems clear enough to me he was unsighted), but his assistant should have picked it up and brought it to his attention. But the rules are clear - in these circumstances the FA can use TV evidence to deal with the situation - and I'm sure they will.

Bostonhibby
18-03-2013, 03:55 PM
Not sure he meant to injure the guy but the quality of the challenge was very poor and always likely to cause injury, Hertz class challenge, straight out of their coaching manual and Hertz linesman class as well, how didn't this guy see it?

Just_Jimmy
18-03-2013, 04:06 PM
I was watching the game, Jim, and the challenge looked very bad at the time. In afterthought and after sight, I have to say it looks a horrible challenge - not a 'tackle' in any real sense of the word - and could very well have done serious damage to Haidara. We won't know whether that damage IS serious, or whether Haidara has been lucky and the injury proves to be less serious than it appears, until we hear the hospital reports.

I shouls say, though, that the Newcastle coach is old enough and experienced enough to have known better than to go after McManaman at half-time

The only hopeful sign I took from the pictures was that McManaman hit Haidara above the knee rather than below - there's more muscle there and the bone is better protected and stronger than below the knee. Of course, the knee ligaments are just as vulnerable, and that's where the worry for Haidara's condition lies.

However, 'looking to play the ball' and 'catching the guy accidentally' really don't cut cut here, in my opinion. If that had been a Hearts player 'tackling' one of ours I think we'd have all been on here calling for the death penalty (at least) for the Jambo (and for the officials who missed the incident).

It was a very reckless challenge, at speed, studs up, 2 feet off the ground. Whether he touched the ball first is irrelevant - the follow-through was inevitably going to lead to a collision with Haidara's leg.

Maybe there's a natural sympathy with a young player making his debut, but however hyped-up McManaman was he has a responsibility to his fellow-professionals, a 'duty of care' which he should have observed. I can't see any way the FA can deal with him than with a fairly lengthy suspension.

I have to say I don't think that Martinez and Whelan are doing themselves any favours with what they're saying to the press. Not when it's still not clear how badly the Newcastle player is injured.

There's a fair bit of sense in what Robbie Savage says here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21823415) - though I would still say that someone at Wigan urgently needs to take young McManaman aside and teach him how to tackle safely and legally.

"John Guidetti scored a late winner as City's Elite Development Squad returned to winning ways against Wigan.
However, the gloss was taken off the victory when former Barcelona youngster Gai Assulin was stretchered off in the 90th-minute following a reckless tackle by Latics' Callum McManaman which led to his second yellow and resulting red card.

As yet, there is no update on Assulin, who left the pitch in a leg brace, or the extent of his injury."

2011.

NOLA
18-03-2013, 04:46 PM
Didn't mean to harm the barcode, just a poor tackler.

Beefster
18-03-2013, 04:50 PM
I doubt the guy lying in hospital with his ligaments likely torn cares whether the tackle was deliberate or not. It was an absolute shocker.

Wigan haven't exactly covered themselves in glory since it either.

Silent Boatman
18-03-2013, 07:07 PM
Horrible tackle if you can actually legitimise that by calling it a tackle. If you go in that high and reckless there is always the chance of a horrific outcome.

3pm
18-03-2013, 07:11 PM
I think Newcastle will have plenty to say about Whelan's comments.

TomoHFC
18-03-2013, 10:08 PM
i've seen worst

Sir David Gray
19-03-2013, 12:09 AM
It's an absolutely horrendous challenge and I don't think the FA can have any choice other than to suspend McManaman for at least the next 4 or 5 games for that.

The comments since the game from Martinez and Whelan are also quite disappointing. No-one's suggesting that McManaman has intended to cause the guy any serious harm with that challenge. But that is really irrelevant when it comes to challenges like that.

It's not like handball, it doesn't need to be deliberate in order for it to be an offence. That is one of the worst challenges I have seen for quite some time and the Newcastle player is just fortunate that his career hasn't been ended as a result.

I'm quite sure that McManaman feels awful about it and I'm sure he is very remorseful. But it doesn't take away from the fact that it was a really terrible challenge and he needs to face the consequences.

Hibercelona
19-03-2013, 02:06 AM
The fact he touched the ball first was irrelevant. You can't point the studs out like that, even if you are fully committed to winning the ball.

The stud rule is one of the better rules of the game and is there for very obvious reasons.

Hermit Crab
19-03-2013, 02:15 AM
The boy never even got book for this one.

http://youtu.be/ovfYnZuO3QE

Smiggy 7-0
19-03-2013, 07:39 AM
http://d3fsqtc6sy2z27.cloudfront.net/uploads/c42cee3ff562d58fabaf4346cb7338c1_large


Saw this at the time, look closely at the changing angle of his foot, SHOCKER.....long ban coming his way.

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2013, 08:36 AM
Saw this at the time, look closely at the changing angle of his foot, SHOCKER.....long ban coming his way.

When you see it like that, it looks to me he knows what he's doing?

lapsedhibee
19-03-2013, 08:39 AM
Saw this at the time, look closely at the changing angle of his foot, SHOCKER.....long ban coming his way.

Should the polis be involved, it's that bad? :dunno:

HibbyCal
19-03-2013, 09:14 AM
I think too much has been made of this and as a result, the pressure on the FA means the boy will probably get a severe punishment. IMO you can see he hasn't meant to injure the player, he's simply gone in forceful.

--------
19-03-2013, 09:54 AM
"John Guidetti scored a late winner as City's Elite Development Squad returned to winning ways against Wigan. However, the gloss was taken off the victory when former Barcelona youngster Gai Assulin was stretchered off in the 90th-minute following a reckless tackle by Latics' Callum McManaman which led to his second yellow and resulting red card. As yet, there is no update on Assulin, who left the pitch in a leg brace, or the extent of his injury." 2011.

Oh, now that's interesting - McManaman's got previous, though not in the FIRST team.

That sheds a VERY different light on things - but because he was sent off on that first occasion, the red card would have been the whole of his punishment. Nothing more would have been said or done.

I see Whelan's reported as saying, "If people think football is for fairies, it’s not. It’s a game for men and it’ s tough. Callum is a tough Liverpudlian, but I have seen him come up through the ranks, and there’s not an ounce of malice in him. He has 100 per cent enthusiasm for the game, and that’s all there was in that tackle."

FAIRIES? What exactly does he mean by THAT? I think it's getting close to the point where Whelan (and possibly Martinez) need to be called up to the FA to explain exactly where they're coming from.

Football is a man's game, right enough, and I've watched it man and boy for half a century now, but I cannot recall a time when that challenge (it wasn't a tackle) wouldn't have been a sending-off offence.

But I can recall many, many managers who would have had the sense to have kept McManaman in the dressing-room for the second half - to defuse the situation, and to acknowledge that what he did was out of order, as respect to the other team.

Assulin's now with Racing Santander and an Israeli international, but he seems to have had a fair bot of a struggle to overcome that injury and get where he is.

Hermit Crab
19-03-2013, 10:33 AM
Anyone seen this tackle on ronaldinho?? Not even a booking.

http://youtu.be/ovfYnZuO3QE

Beefster
19-03-2013, 11:59 AM
I think too much has been made of this and as a result, the pressure on the FA means the boy will probably get a severe punishment. IMO you can see he hasn't meant to injure the player, he's simply gone in forceful.

Going in at knee height isn't forceful, it's reckless.

--------
19-03-2013, 01:14 PM
I think too much has been made of this and as a result, the pressure on the FA means the boy will probably get a severe punishment. IMO you can see he hasn't meant to injure the player, he's simply gone in forceful.


Sorry, but what I see when I look at that video is a player lunging into a challenge with absolutely no thought or concern for the safety or welfare of the other player.

And apparently, not for the first time, either.

FYI:

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:


• kicks or attempts to kick an opponent


• trips or attempts to trip an opponent


• jumps at an opponent


• charges an opponent


• strikes or attempts to strike an opponent


• pushes an opponent


• tackles an opponent


(FIFA Laws of the Game, Law 12)



Mind you, he's got a long way to go to match any of THESE (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rundown/football-12-most-gruesome-tackles-151047702.html) ....

Hibbie_Cameron
19-03-2013, 04:01 PM
No action to be taken by the FA. You can get a yellow card for celebrating a goal but nothing for seriously injuring a player

--------
19-03-2013, 04:08 PM
No action to be taken by the FA. You can get a yellow card for celebrating a goal but nothing for seriously injuring a player


It appears that the greatest commandment as far as both the FA and the SFA are concerned is "Thou shalt not suggest that a referee can ever get it wrong."

I REALLY hope Wigan finally go down this year.

Hibbie_Cameron
19-03-2013, 04:13 PM
It appears that the greatest commandment as far as both the FA and the SFA are concerned is "Thou shalt not suggest that a referee can ever get it wrong."

I REALLY hope Wigan finally go down this year.

I do too.

I am no fan of the Newcastle board but the statement they have released about this is spot on

http://www.nufc.co.uk/articles/20130319/newcastle-united-statement_2281670_3115111

hibsbollah
19-03-2013, 04:15 PM
Oh, now that's interesting - McManaman's got previous, though not in the FIRST team.

That sheds a VERY different light on things - but because he was sent off on that first occasion, the red card would have been the whole of his punishment. Nothing more would have been said or done.

I see Whelan's reported as saying, "If people think football is for fairies, it’s not. It’s a game for men and it’ s tough. Callum is a tough Liverpudlian, but I have seen him come up through the ranks, and there’s not an ounce of malice in him. He has 100 per cent enthusiasm for the game, and that’s all there was in that tackle."

FAIRIES? What exactly does he mean by THAT? I think it's getting close to the point where Whelan (and possibly Martinez) need to be called up to the FA to explain exactly where they're coming from.

Football is a man's game, right enough, and I've watched it man and boy for half a century now, but I cannot recall a time when that challenge (it wasn't a tackle) wouldn't have been a sending-off offence.

But I can recall many, many managers who would have had the sense to have kept McManaman in the dressing-room for the second half - to defuse the situation, and to acknowledge that what he did was out of order, as respect to the other team.

Assulin's now with Racing Santander and an Israeli international, but he seems to have had a fair bot of a struggle to overcome that injury and get where he is.

:agree: it sounds like Asulins career has gone backwards in a big way since his injury, when he was highly thought of at Vity..

blackpoolhibs
19-03-2013, 04:22 PM
No action to be taken by the FA. You can get a yellow card for celebrating a goal but nothing for seriously injuring a player

Thats an astounding decision, i was expecting a 3 match ban at least? :confused:

--------
19-03-2013, 04:26 PM
:agree: it sounds like Asulins career has gone backwards in a big way since his injury, when he was highly thought of at Vity..


Yup. From a highly-valued Barca colt to the Spanish second tier via rejection by Barnsley on grounds of fitness.

According to Newcastle, Massadio "will undergo a further scan next week in order to determine the extent of the damage caused. Contrary to comments in the media, there is currently no timescale for his recovery."

That doesn't sound very hopeful, to say the least. So much for the press reports that he only suffered "bruising". :rolleyes:

Hibbie_Cameron
19-03-2013, 04:32 PM
Yup. From a highly-valued Barca colt to the Spanish second tier via rejection by Barnsley on grounds of fitness.

According to Newcastle, Massadio "will undergo a further scan next week in order to determine the extent of the damage caused. Contrary to comments in the media, there is currently no timescale for his recovery."

That doesn't sound very hopeful, to say the least. So much for the press reports that he only suffered "bruising". :rolleyes:

From what I know, he could not even have a scan until late yesterday afternoon as he could not straighten his leg

Sir David Gray
19-03-2013, 04:37 PM
I'm astonished by that announcement.

Words fail me to be quite honest.

Just shaking my head.

--------
19-03-2013, 04:49 PM
From what I know, he could not even have a scan until late yesterday afternoon as he could not straighten his leg


Oh dear. That does NOT sound good. Still, as I said yesterday, maybe the fact that McManaman caught him on the thigh-muscle above the knee rather than on the tibia and fibula below it means he may be lucky.

:pray: (seriously).

One thing I'd like to get clear - did the referee or did he not see what happened? And if HE didn't, did his assistant? Because the FA statement seems to be implying that he saw it - kind of - but didn't see it clearly, and that's why they can't "re-referee" the incident. But I was watching the game on Sunday, and I clearly saw him say to one of the Newcastle players "I didn't see it" - yet Alan Pardew after the game still seemed unclear as to whether the referee had seen it or not.

Up until yesterday I would have said I'd have hoped that Wigan escaped relegation, but not now.

And that's not because of the challenge itself, but because of the hypocritical horse-feathers coming from Martinez and Whelan.

Hibbie_Cameron
19-03-2013, 04:54 PM
Oh dear. That does NOT sound good. Still, as I said yesterday, maybe the fact that McManaman caught him on the thigh-muscle above the knee rather than on the tibia and fibula below it means he may be lucky.

:pray: (seriously).

One thing I'd like to get clear - did the referee or did he not see what happened? And if HE didn't, did his assistant? Because the FA statement seems to be implying that he saw it - kind of - but didn't see it clearly, and that's why they can't "re-referee" the incident. But I was watching the game on Sunday, and I clearly saw him say to one of the Newcastle players "I didn't see it" - yet Alan Pardew after the game still seemed unclear as to whether the referee had seen it or not.

Up until yesterday I would have said I'd have hoped that Wigan escaped relegation, but not now.

And that's not because of the challenge itself, but because of the hypocritical horse-feathers coming from Martinez and Whelan.

The ref did not see the incident but one of the linesmen did.

That clown Whelan yesterday has changed my opinion of the club. The comments coming from the man whose own career was ended by a dangerous challenge.

Newcastle assitant manager John Carver has just been charged for his reaction to the challenge, yet the challenge goes unpunished:confused:

hibsbollah
19-03-2013, 05:09 PM
Lets look at this comparatively;

Joey Barton- kneed an opponent off the ball and then headbutted another opponent before leaving the field in a fit of temper, neither incident was going to injure anyone: 12 game ban.

John Terry- racially abusing an opponent by calling him a c**n: 3 game ban.

McNanaman's challenge at the weekend: No punishment.

:dunno:

JimBHibees
19-03-2013, 07:35 PM
I was watching the game, Jim, and the challenge looked very bad at the time. In afterthought and after sight, I have to say it looks a horrible challenge - not a 'tackle' in any real sense of the word - and could very well have done serious damage to Haidara. We won't know whether that damage IS serious, or whether Haidara has been lucky and the injury proves to be less serious than it appears, until we hear the hospital reports.

I shouls say, though, that the Newcastle coach is old enough and experienced enough to have known better than to go after McManaman at half-time

The only hopeful sign I took from the pictures was that McManaman hit Haidara above the knee rather than below - there's more muscle there and the bone is better protected and stronger than below the knee. Of course, the knee ligaments are just as vulnerable, and that's where the worry for Haidara's condition lies.

However, 'looking to play the ball' and 'catching the guy accidentally' really don't cut cut here, in my opinion. If that had been a Hearts player 'tackling' one of ours I think we'd have all been on here calling for the death penalty (at least) for the Jambo (and for the officials who missed the incident).

It was a very reckless challenge, at speed, studs up, 2 feet off the ground. Whether he touched the ball first is irrelevant - the follow-through was inevitably going to lead to a collision with Haidara's leg.

Maybe there's a natural sympathy with a young player making his debut, but however hyped-up McManaman was he has a responsibility to his fellow-professionals, a 'duty of care' which he should have observed. I can't see any way the FA can deal with him than with a fairly lengthy suspension.

I have to say I don't think that Martinez and Whelan are doing themselves any favours with what they're saying to the press. Not when it's still not clear how badly the Newcastle player is injured.

There's a fair bit of sense in what Robbie Savage says here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21823415) - though I would still say that someone at Wigan urgently needs to take young McManaman aside and teach him how to tackle safely and legally.

Personally still not sure of the level of intent in the tackle. Think McManaman was trying to play the ball and didnt intentionally go out to injure the Newcastle player. That sort of thing could happen many times without anyone getting injured however obviously there was a bad injury in this case. One of those things IMO.

Beefster
19-03-2013, 08:40 PM
Lets look at this comparatively;

Joey Barton- kneed an opponent off the ball and then headbutted another opponent before leaving the field in a fit of temper, neither incident was going to injure anyone: 12 game ban.

John Terry- racially abusing an opponent by calling him a c**n: 3 game ban.

McNanaman's challenge at the weekend: No punishment.

:dunno:

It's crazy. The FA saying that they do not want to re-referee the game seeing as an official saw the tackle sounds fair enough initially. However, they hammered Ben Thatcher for his assault on Mendes, even although he was booked at the time.

A footballing authority being inconsistent is a rare thing...

Jonnyboy
19-03-2013, 09:15 PM
In Scotland we've had a number of retrospective punishments handed out but I find it almost impossible to believe that any of the relevant incidents went unobserved by the referee, his assistants or the fourth official.

Why is it we have a compliance officer?