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Big Ed
16-03-2013, 01:12 AM
Some thoughts…

Motherwell are a good team, who played some lovely one touch football

James McFadden is an exceptional player who has improved with more game time

Hibs, like every team in the SPL are inconsistent

Pat Fenlon has the team playing with a work ethic

Leigh Griffiths can’t be brilliant in every game he plays

Scott Robertson is a good football player who had an off night

Jorge Claros can sometimes be a bit *****

Losing 1 - 4 can cloud your judgement

Sometime you have to take it on the chin…

Pete
16-03-2013, 02:59 AM
Zero replies because the reactive, knee-jerk idiots don't care for things like perspective.

marinello59
16-03-2013, 06:49 AM
This SPL is one of the poorest ever seen.
We are one of the poorest sides in it.
We are consistent...... Consistently lacking movement and invention.
Leigh Griffiths is one of the best players in the SPL but when things aren't working for him we really do lack that creative spark.
Pat Fenlon did have a huge rebuilding job on his hands as did the promoted club who had to strengthen a first division squad.
A 4-1 loss can indicate exactly where we currently stand in the pecking order.

Signed
A Knee Jerk Idiot.

Spike Mandela
16-03-2013, 07:28 AM
My perspective is that the league and cup results reflects what we are, a mediocre team with quite a few plodders but 2 or 3 really good payers.

In the league we are rightly mid table. Who can honestly deny that Motherwell, Inverness, Ross County and even St Johnstone have been better teams than us this year?

In the cup on a good day we are a good bet with Griffiths able to hurt teams, Williams a reliable keeper and if others raise their game we can put in a decent team performance.

TornadoHibby
16-03-2013, 07:31 AM
This SPL is one of the poorest ever seen.
We are one of the poorest sides in it.
We are consistent...... Consistently lacking movement and invention.
Leigh Griffiths is one of the best players in the SPL but when things aren't working for him we really do lack that creative spark.
Pat Fenlon did have a huge rebuilding job on his hands as did the promoted club who had to strengthen a first division squad.
A 4-1 loss can indicate exactly where we currently stand in the pecking order.

Signed
A Knee Jerk Idiot.


Knee jerk aye!!?? :greengrin

1 win in ten games (St Mirren away on 16 Feb), 6 draws in that and the last win before that was Celtic at ER on 29 Dec 2012!!!

Little wonder we may miss top 6 again with ICT and Celtic to play yet before the split, home and away respectively!

Motherwell were good tho last night, McFadden was superb. They deserved to win the game with the first three goals unstoppable!

Harris is a player undoubtedly whereas Done is sadly not!!

Also, I'd play Thommo instead of Robertson any day of the week as the latter is doing very little for us right now IMO!

However, maybe I'm just expecting my team to perform at least as well as some of the 'lesser' clubs in the SPL who manage to achieve consistently better results than Hibs have managed for several years now? :confused:

HH81
16-03-2013, 07:31 AM
Were two wins from a amazing season no one will care where we finish in the league then......

TornadoHibby
16-03-2013, 07:35 AM
Were two wins from a amazing season no one will care where we finish in the league then......

Now there's an optimist!! :greengrin :thumbsup:

marinello59
16-03-2013, 08:45 AM
Knee jerk aye!!?? :greengrin



You left me with idiot though. :greengrin

HUTCHYHIBBY
16-03-2013, 08:54 AM
Perspective - 3 wins in 18 League games if what somebody posted on another thread is accurate.

judas
16-03-2013, 09:07 AM
Zero replies because the reactive, knee-jerk idiots don't care for things like perspective.

Don't be a ******.

There are folk on here who believe that Hibs improvement from last season has been short of acceptable.

Without griffiths we would, in my view, be in the bottom 3. And we will lose him at the end of the season.

Sorry I don't follow your righteous and intelligent path.

Big Ed
16-03-2013, 09:18 AM
However, maybe I'm just expecting my team to perform at least as well as some of the 'lesser' clubs in the SPL who manage to achieve consistently better results than Hibs have managed for several years now? :confused:

Having witnessed the depths to which we have plummeted years in recent; what leads you to expect us to be any better?

Lucius Apuleius
16-03-2013, 09:25 AM
My perspective is that the league and cup results reflects what we are, a mediocre team with quite a few plodders but 2 or 3 really good payers.

In the league we are rightly mid table. Who can honestly deny that Motherwell, Inverness, Ross County and even St Johnstone have been better teams than us this year?

In the cup on a good day we are a good bet with Griffiths able to hurt teams, Williams a reliable keeper and if others raise their game we can put in a decent team performance.

Blom me, Spike in common sense post :-). Fully agree mate. We are a mid table team having a good cup run. If we finish 7th we have climbed 4 places from last season, same improvement next season and I will be happy. Long may the cup run continue.

Danderhall Hibs
16-03-2013, 10:02 AM
Knee jerk aye!!?? :greengrin

1 win in ten games (St Mirren away on 16 Feb), 6 draws in that and the last win before that was Celtic at ER on 29 Dec 2012!!!

Little wonder we may miss top 6 again with ICT and Celtic to play yet before the split, home and away respectively!

Motherwell were good tho last night, McFadden was superb. They deserved to win the game with the first three goals unstoppable!

Harris is a player undoubtedly whereas Done is sadly not!!

Also, I'd play Thommo instead of Robertson any day of the week as the latter is doing very little for us right now IMO!

However, maybe I'm just expecting my team to perform at least as well as some of the 'lesser' clubs in the SPL who manage to achieve consistently better results than Hibs have managed for several years now? :confused:

I can't believe I'm about to say this but I agree with you 100%.

pontius pilate
16-03-2013, 10:07 AM
I think I'm in agreement with most in the sense that last year was terrible relegation battle that Final and the Loans. However having a squad what is signed to us bar 1-2 players we have improved by not being at the bottom would I have liked to see us challenge for 2nd of course but realistically mid-table is what is better and another crack at the Big Cup.

It could always be worse we could be the ****my Yams

GGTTH

Captain Trips
16-03-2013, 10:12 AM
This SPL is one of the poorest ever seen.
We are one of the poorest sides in it.
We are consistent...... Consistently lacking movement and invention.
Leigh Griffiths is one of the best players in the SPL but when things aren't working for him we really do lack that creative spark.
Pat Fenlon did have a huge rebuilding job on his hands as did the promoted club who had to strengthen a first division squad.
A 4-1 loss can indicate exactly where we currently stand in the pecking order.

Signed
A Knee Jerk Idiot.

totally agree :greengrin. No seriously mate this is one of our rare agree times.

Captain Trips
16-03-2013, 10:24 AM
The perspective is that we are as high as we are and positive about manager is based on his work August to end of November where we had gained 27pts from our 40 and as I said rightfully so but is 13 pts from last 3 1/2 months not also worthy of actually questioing progress, surely if we are going in right direction then the results and stats above would be reversed, I am seeing good work undone and that is a major worry.

HH81
16-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Now there's an optimist!! :greengrin :thumbsup:

Let's not forget this season will be seen as a sucess if we win the Scottish cup.

I would have taken today's position that the club are in after the shambles of the cup final last year.

rcarter1
16-03-2013, 10:48 AM
The perspective is that we are as high as we are and positive about manager is based on his work August to end of November where we had gained 27pts from our 40 and as I said rightfully so but is 13 pts from last 3 1/2 months not also worthy of actually questioing progress, surely if we are going in right direction then the results and stats above would be reversed, I am seeing good work undone and that is a major worry.

This is a great point. For me we are a bottom six outfit that had a great start. The general inconsistency of all the teams seems to have helped us maintain top 6 position for as long as we have.

I really hope now that we do finish bottom six, so no one at the club can say 'look we are a top 6 side'. Reality please and an objective understanding of what we need to do to improve. It will be very interesting to see if Pat rebuilds in summer with a view to changing to a more positive style.

lucky
16-03-2013, 11:00 AM
This is a great point. For me we are a bottom six outfit that had a great start. The general inconsistency of all the teams seems to have helped us maintain top 6 position for as long as we have.

I really hope now that we do finish bottom six, so no one at the club can say 'look we are a top 6 side'. Reality please and an objective understanding of what we need to do to improve. It will be very interesting to see if Pat rebuilds in summer with a view to changing to a more positive style.

Some Hibs fan you wanting the club to finish in the bottom 6. Have a word.

davidw
16-03-2013, 11:01 AM
Perspective is spot on. Not sure if I am Fenlon's biggest fan, but the point he made when Stevenson signed his new contract during the week was correct: he is trying to build a team i.e. he is in the process of that, and it is the clichéd 'work in progress'.

I was feeling despondent a month or so ago, at the tactics and the atrocious footballing style and, er, "quality". Then he changed it with the 5 man midfield and suddenly we were actually passing the ball again and looking much better. St. Mirren, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock away games were all much, better performances and, bar a ridiculous penalty, we would have one all three. Last week was ****, but it still should have been a victory bar a farcical bit of incompetent refereeing. Other games have been **** (e.g. St. Johnstone) but some have been better (Celtic, (some of) Aberdeen cup game). But that's what happens when something is being built and developed slowly.

So, yes, let's have a bit of perspective.

500miles
16-03-2013, 11:11 AM
This SPL is one of the poorest ever seen.
We are one of the poorest sides in it.
We are consistent...... Consistently lacking movement and invention.
Leigh Griffiths is one of the best players in the SPL but when things aren't working for him we really do lack that creative spark.
Pat Fenlon did have a huge rebuilding job on his hands as did the promoted club who had to strengthen a first division squad.
A 4-1 loss can indicate exactly where we currently stand in the pecking order.

Signed
A Knee Jerk Idiot.

The promoted First Division side hadn't lost a game in over a year, and are built around a core of young promising players, who have played together and improved together for the last 3 or 4 years, just like the golden generation did with us. They didn't make quite as big a jump as you think. They also have a manager who was with them throughout that time, bar a six month spell with us. Ross County had a good base, in fact, a better base than us, to start from.

We didn't lack creativity last night. Griffiths, Doyle, Harris (twice), Wotherspoon and McPake all had great chances to score. I can understand how frustrating Spoony can be, but I thought he was a thorn in Motherwell's side last night - creating the goal, getting into good positions, and even blocking off Higdon for McPakes free header.

We lacked composure last night, but we were undone by a poorly defended goal, then two difficult ones to defend against due to the great skill from Higganbotham and McFadden, and being caught short at the back when we tried to get a goal back.

Sometimes you just have to put it down to experience, try and come away a bit wiser, and reap the benefits later. Hopefully we can do that, because there have been positives from all of our games lately, in defence and attack.

rcarter1
16-03-2013, 11:13 AM
Some Hibs fan you wanting the club to finish in the bottom 6. Have a word.

Well Ok, but Id rather finish bottom six from where we are now if it provides the impetus to the club to see the improvements that need made.

I would much rather that Hibs were a better side that deserved top 6 and achieved it. IF we finish top 6 this season and Pat comes out and says 'well weve done really well to finish where we have, but we will need to improve if we want to be top 6 next season' - then im happy with that.

What I cant stand is pretending we are better than we are - particularly if it comes from the club. That was Yogis problem - thinking we were great - we finished in 4th - but we were actually rank rotten as next season proved.

Tyler Durden
16-03-2013, 11:16 AM
The promoted First Division side hadn't lost a game in over a year, and are built around a core of young promising players, who have played together and improved together for the last 3 or 4 years, just like the golden generation did with us. They didn't make quite as big a jump as you think. They also have a manager who was with them throughout that time, bar a six month spell with us. Ross County had a good base, in fact, a better base than us, to start from.

We didn't lack creativity last night. Griffiths, Doyle, Harris (twice), Wotherspoon and McPake all had great chances to score. I can understand how frustrating Spoony can be, but I thought he was a thorn in Motherwell's side last night - creating the goal, getting into good positions, and even blocking off Higdon for McPakes free header.

We lacked composure last night, but we were undone by a poorly defended goal, then two difficult ones to defend against due to the great skill from Higganbotham and McFadden, and being caught short at the back when we tried to get a goal back.

Sometimes you just have to put it down to experience, try and come away a bit wiser, and reap the benefits later. Hopefully we can do that, because there have been positives from all of our games lately, in defence and attack.

That's just blatantly nonsense regarding Ross County. Who are these core young players you cite?

What are the positives from our games lately in defence and attack?

Tyler Durden
16-03-2013, 11:18 AM
There are 3 certainties in life. Death, taxes and a thread on perspective the day after Hibs get beat.

marinello59
16-03-2013, 11:24 AM
The promoted First Division side hadn't lost a game in over a year, and are built around a core of young promising players, who have played together and improved together for the last 3 or 4 years, just like the golden generation did with us. They didn't make quite as big a jump as you think. They also have a manager who was with them throughout that time, bar a six month spell with us. Ross County had a good base, in fact, a better base than us, to start from.

And we had a base of players with long term experience of playing in the top flight. It seems that with every set back we have last years squad becomes just that little bit worse. We are only a couple of defeats away from describing Pat Fenlon as having inherited a Highland League standard squad. Our players are no worse than Ross County's but I would argue that they are a better team. Yet that's OK because we are still rebuilding.

rcarter1
16-03-2013, 11:36 AM
And we had a base of players with long term experience of playing in the top flight. It seems that with every set back we have last years squad becomes just that little bit worse. We are only a couple of defeats away from describing Pat Fenlon as having inherited a Highland League standard squad. Our players are no worse than Ross County's but I would argue that they are a better team. Yet that's OK because we are still rebuilding.

Thats where things get worrying. If we have decent players then we are under performing - and that is down to confidence, tactics or pressure.

NORTHERNHIBBY
16-03-2013, 12:13 PM
And we had a base of players with long term experience of playing in the top flight. It seems that with every set back we have last years squad becomes just that little bit worse. We are only a couple of defeats away from describing Pat Fenlon as having inherited a Highland League standard squad. Our players are no worse than Ross County's but I would argue that they are a better team. Yet that's OK because we are still rebuilding.

The best player that Ross County have is that boy Confidence. All the good teams have him every week. Middling teams have him in their team now and again. Struggling teams never seem to play him.

silverhibee
16-03-2013, 12:16 PM
Some thoughts…

Motherwell are a good team, who played some lovely one touch football

James McFadden is an exceptional player who has improved with more game time

Hibs, like every team in the SPL are inconsistent

Pat Fenlon has the team playing with a work ethic

Leigh Griffiths can’t be brilliant in every game he plays

Scott Robertson is a good football player who had an off night

Jorge Claros can sometimes be a bit *****

Losing 1 - 4 can cloud your judgement

Sometime you have to take it on the chin…


1. Only because we allowed them too.

2. He is, but we are allowed to try and stop him by putting in a tackle.

3. Agree.

4. It wasn't on show last night.

5. No he can't, maybe why another striker should have been brought in.

6. He has had a few off days as well.

7. Why pick Claros out from last night, Mcpake needs to start acting like a captain again, very poor last night.

8. Yes it can, that's why i left it a bit before i posted.

9.Glad i have a couple then.

DaveF
16-03-2013, 12:26 PM
Some thoughts…

Motherwell are a good team, who played some lovely one touch football

James McFadden is an exceptional player who has improved with more game time

Hibs, like every team in the SPL are inconsistent

Pat Fenlon has the team playing with a work ethic

Leigh Griffiths can’t be brilliant in every game he plays

Scott Robertson is a good football player who had an off night

Jorge Claros can sometimes be a bit *****

Losing 1 - 4 can cloud your judgement

Sometime you have to take it on the chin…

Motherwell did play well, but we allowed them to play.

McFadden is a good player. Which makes the decision to not tackle him and give him as much ball as he wanted, all the more baffling.

Hibs are wildly inconsisent in a gash SPL . That's not a great place to be.

Work ethic posted missing last night.

True.

Perhaps. I've yet to see anything decent from Robertson though.

True.

Also True - but the inability to recognise this team of ours has issues can also cloud your judgement.

500miles
16-03-2013, 12:28 PM
That's just blatantly nonsense regarding Ross County. Who are these core young players you cite?

What are the positives from our games lately in defence and attack?

Boyd, Vigurs, Kettlewell, Lawson, Brittain. All of them signed as youngsters, have been at the club for 4 or 5 years and are now playing their prime years with them. They have developed as players, have an understanding, and were far too good for the First Division last year, and probably a better team than us.

So what part of the settled, maturing team, with fantastic record in the First Division, and a manager who is well aware of their capabilities (and the demands of the SPL, due to his time with us), is nonsense? I can't help but think that you're really only having a go, because me injecting a bit of reality stands in the way of you having a greet?

Baldy Foghorn
16-03-2013, 12:43 PM
Well Ok, but Id rather finish bottom six from where we are now if it provides the impetus to the club to see the improvements that need made.

I would much rather that Hibs were a better side that deserved top 6 and achieved it. IF we finish top 6 this season and Pat comes out and says 'well weve done really well to finish where we have, but we will need to improve if we want to be top 6 next season' - then im happy with that.

What I cant stand is pretending we are better than we are - particularly if it comes from the club. That was Yogis problem - thinking we were great - we finished in 4th - but we were actually rank rotten as next season proved.

Even if we finish in Top 6, I still believe everyone connected with Hibs know that improvements need to be made.....Nobody is foolish and saying otherwise, PF has said many times this season that we are nowhere near the finished article....Short of winning the League every Season then you hope the next Season is better than the last.....

We have had a far better Season than last Year, of that there is no doubt......We need to take stock of where we have been to where we are now, and progress has been made, maybe not at a pace that some expect, but hey ho.......Me, although very disappointed at last night, I am not about to throw myself off the Forth Bridge just yet, as I know we have made huge inroads thus far.....

DaveF
16-03-2013, 12:48 PM
Even if we finish in Top 6, I still believe everyone connected with Hibs know that improvements need to be made.....Nobody is foolish and saying otherwise, PF has said many times this season that we are nowhere near the finished article....Short of winning the League every Season then you hope the next Season is better than the last.....

We have had a far better Season than last Year, of that there is no doubt......We need to take stock of where we have been to where we are now, and progress has been made, maybe not at a pace that some expect, but hey ho.......Me, although very disappointed at last night, I am not about to throw myself off the Forth Bridge just yet, as I know we have made huge inroads thus far.....

Huge Inroads?

I thought we were taking the right steps with the way we played early on this season but since December we have went backwards at an alarming rate, playing an ultra defensive, boring style reminiscent of last season. Yes, we have more steel and Sparky's goals have been a god send but huge inroads? Not IMO.

LeighLoyal
16-03-2013, 12:54 PM
Was brutal watching that last night. The only bright point was young Harris again when he came on, other than that we were brutal. Shocking at the back and no real spark in midfield, except when Harris came on.

Baldy Foghorn
16-03-2013, 12:57 PM
Huge Inroads?

I thought we were taking the right steps with the way we played early on this season but since December we have went backwards at an alarming rate, playing an ultra defensive, boring style reminiscent of last season. Yes, we have more steel and Sparky's goals have been a god send but huge inroads? Not IMO.

IMO yes, more points than last Season, a chance to get in another National Final. Agree our form has been poor since December, but I can still see what has been/is trying to be achieved. We had the transfer window we all wanted, whereby we kept our 3 loanees, and added another two. Next Season I am really looking forward to seeing Craig in our Midfield, which is another positive step....

DaveF
16-03-2013, 01:02 PM
IMO yes, more points than last Season, a chance to get in another National Final. Agree our form has been poor since December, but I can still see what has been/is trying to be achieved. We had the transfer window we all wanted, whereby we kept our 3 loanees, and added another two. Next Season I am really looking forward to seeing Craig in our Midfield, which is another positive step....

I've seen this one trotted out a few times, but come on we would be going radio rental and Fenlon would be sacked if we didn't get more points than last season :greengrin

Still, I'll forgive everything if the unthinkable happens....

Baldy Foghorn
16-03-2013, 01:06 PM
I've seen this one trotted out a few times, but come on we would be going radio rental and Fenlon would be sacked if we didn't get more points than last season :greengrin

Still, I'll forgive everything if the unthinkable happens....

But surely by gaining more points than last Season with 7 games still to play is a mark of progress though?

If the unthinkable happens then PF will be the best thing since sliced bread, and would become legendary......

DaveF
16-03-2013, 01:15 PM
But surely by gaining more points than last Season with 7 games still to play is a mark of progress though?

If the unthinkable happens then PF will be the best thing since sliced bread, and would become legendary......

Yes, it's progress but that should be a given following the utter dross of last season.

I sat in on the initial LWT meeting where Fenlon spoke for 20 mins. He pinpointed top 6 as the absolute minimum in terms of what he expected for the club this season. That's now looking very tight - if not unlikely - so in those terms have we progressed or failed?

Baldy Foghorn
16-03-2013, 01:21 PM
Yes, it's progress but that should be a given following the utter dross of last season.

I sat in on the initial LWT meeting where Fenlon spoke for 20 mins. He pinpointed top 6 as the absolute minimum in terms of what he expected for the club this season. That's now looking very tight - if not unlikely - so in those terms have we progressed or failed?

If we finish bottom six, PF will say he has failed with his target.....Whilst we should be top 6 as a minimum, I still see it as a progression if we finish higher than last Season.......I am realistic that last Season was woeful in every way possible, but I still think we have progressed.....

Yes I expected top 6 at worst, but was that too much of an ask after last Season? We could still win that damn thing in May, and get a European spot to boot.....

Big Ed
16-03-2013, 01:22 PM
Also True - but the inability to recognise this team of ours has issues can also cloud your judgement.

I'm well aware that we have issues with the team: if anything, I get more annoyed when we've gobbed a win and euphoria is drug of choice on here.

Tyler Durden
16-03-2013, 02:31 PM
Boyd, Vigurs, Kettlewell, Lawson, Brittain. All of them signed as youngsters, have been at the club for 4 or 5 years and are now playing their prime years with them. They have developed as players, have an understanding, and were far too good for the First Division last year, and probably a better team than us.

So what part of the settled, maturing team, with fantastic record in the First Division, and a manager who is well aware of their capabilities (and the demands of the SPL, due to his time with us), is nonsense? I can't help but think that you're really only having a go, because me injecting a bit of reality stands in the way of you having a greet?

Maybe two can be described as young players and Lawson has barely played. Putting that difference of interpretation aside, is that a better base than Hanlon, McPake, Claros, Griffiths? With our budget to bring into the equation too.

Bottom line is we continue to under achieve, finishing below Ross County for a year can happen. But again we're going to finish behind 5/6 teams we should be competing with.

I am enjoying my greet, thank you. You can continue to be pleased with mediocrity.

Jones28
16-03-2013, 02:58 PM
I don't think anyone in Hibs colours really turned up last night.

Motherwell won 4-1, one of which was a total fluke and two of which were inspired pieces of individual skill. But they are also a really good team who have had a lot of time to build.

People can say Wotherspoon was poor last night (was anyone in the starting 11 good?) but it was his cross that provided the goal: he's had a few assists recently and if he can continue that then it'll do me.

Knee-jerk reactions as per usual.

500miles
16-03-2013, 04:38 PM
Maybe two can be described as young players and Lawson has barely played. Putting that difference of interpretation aside, is that a better base than Hanlon, McPake, Claros, Griffiths? With our budget to bring into the equation too.

Bottom line is we continue to under achieve, finishing below Ross County for a year can happen. But again we're going to finish behind 5/6 teams we should be competing with.

I am enjoying my greet, thank you. You can continue to be pleased with mediocrity.

They were fairly young when they signed for County. About 20-24. Players who needed to fulfil their potential. I think you'll find Ross County's excellent form coincided with Lawson's return to the team. There are rumours that he fell out with Adams, but is in his good books again. This is a laddie that's went about 50 games unbeaten, and looks like continuing that run today.
Hanlon - a player that apparently was never going to be good enough, according to some.... until he recaptured his form under Fenlon.
McPake - a Fenlon signing.
Claros - took time to bed in to the SPL. Was a passenger last season.
Griffiths - Showed promise last season, but was hot and cold. Has improved VASTLY under Pat, and don't think that is an easy job. Griffiths is not an easy character to handle. In fact, look at the difference that time has made to each of the above players? Every single one has improved - McPake is arguable, but I think he is less rash these days too.

So Pat has come in, cleared out almost completely, started building a team, and will continue to do so. Last year we were battling relegation, this year, we're looking for top six. We've been given no help by officials in the top six run-in, so we are struggling, as anyone would in a tight league like this. Next season Cairney, Hanlon, Wotherspoon and Doyle will all be better players, Harris looks promising, and if we keep hold of McGivern and Claros, they will be better players too. Williams didn't start the season great either, but has become our most reliable keeper in years. Liam Craig, a goalscoring midfielder, creative player, and all experienced SPL pro with his best years ahead of him will be in the team as well. We could even have a fit Kevin Thomson back.

Griffiths might leave. Some teams might not want to touch him because of the baggage. We'll see what happens when he goes back to Wolves - if he pisses off the manager again, he might be back in a Hibs shirt. If he doesn't, we won't play with 10 men, we'll sign someone else.

This will be the first season in three years where we have improved our league position compared to the previous year. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

And, of course, we have at least one trip to Hampden to look forward to. I'm not pleased with mediocrity, but I am pleased with not being absolute garbage. If we had the same team as last year, we would have crumbled in a competitive league like this. Relegation battlers with Dundee, no question.

If you can't see progress, and something to look forward to, then you don't want to.

Captain Trips
16-03-2013, 05:23 PM
They were fairly young when they signed for County. About 20-24. Players who needed to fulfil their potential. I think you'll find Ross County's excellent form coincided with Lawson's return to the team. There are rumours that he fell out with Adams, but is in his good books again. This is a laddie that's went about 50 games unbeaten, and looks like continuing that run today.
Hanlon - a player that apparently was never going to be good enough, according to some.... until he recaptured his form under Fenlon.
McPake - a Fenlon signing.
Claros - took time to bed in to the SPL. Was a passenger last season.
Griffiths - Showed promise last season, but was hot and cold. Has improved VASTLY under Pat, and don't think that is an easy job. Griffiths is not an easy character to handle. In fact, look at the difference that time has made to each of the above players? Every single one has improved - McPake is arguable, but I think he is less rash these days too.

So Pat has come in, cleared out almost completely, started building a team, and will continue to do so. Last year we were battling relegation, this year, we're looking for top six. We've been given no help by officials in the top six run-in, so we are struggling, as anyone would in a tight league like this. Next season Cairney, Hanlon, Wotherspoon and Doyle will all be better players, Harris looks promising, and if we keep hold of McGivern and Claros, they will be better players too. Williams didn't start the season great either, but has become our most reliable keeper in years. Liam Craig, a goalscoring midfielder, creative player, and all experienced SPL pro with his best years ahead of him will be in the team as well. We could even have a fit Kevin Thomson back.

Griffiths might leave. Some teams might not want to touch him because of the baggage. We'll see what happens when he goes back to Wolves - if he pisses off the manager again, he might be back in a Hibs shirt. If he doesn't, we won't play with 10 men, we'll sign someone else.

This will be the first season in three years where we have improved our league position compared to the previous year. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

And, of course, we have at least one trip to Hampden to look forward to. I'm not pleased with mediocrity, but I am pleased with not being absolute garbage. If we had the same team as last year, we would have crumbled in a competitive league like this. Relegation battlers with Dundee, no question.

If you can't see progress, and something to look forward to, then you don't want to.


I think we have seen progress and it was mentioned on here at time and rightly so after about 15 matches a pretty good amount of games to judge all was going not to bad, since then I cannot then say that has continued and our very different points tally tells you that, I gave him credit at about 20 games thinkng yes he might be doing ok and our little form dip at the time was to be expected.

We have come on 10 games and that dip is still there the advantage we had playing well early on has all but gone, I was happy to give him praise but he deserves criticism and quaestioned now also. we did so well in first part of season this dip hasnt been as bad as it could have, I will not be praising the manager for his work Aug-Nov and just ignore Dec until now, there are concerns for me again with PF.

Big Ed
16-03-2013, 06:01 PM
I think we have seen progress and it was mentioned on here at time and rightly so after about 15 matches a pretty good amount of games to judge all was going not to bad, since then I cannot then say that has continued and our very different points tally tells you that, I gave him credit at about 20 games thinkng yes he might be doing ok and our little form dip at the time was to be expected.

We have come on 10 games and that dip is still there the advantage we had playing well early on has all but gone, I was happy to give him praise but he deserves criticism and quaestioned now also. we did so well in first part of season this dip hasnt been as bad as it could have, I will not be praising the manager for his work Aug-Nov and just ignore Dec until now, there are concerns for me again with PF.

I'd argue that it was during those 10 games that we played our best football of the season: in the Cup at Kilmarnock and away at Dundee United.

Simply looking at the League table isn't the only guide to progress.

Captain Trips
16-03-2013, 07:18 PM
I'd argue that it was during those 10 games that we played our best football of the season: in the Cup at Kilmarnock and away at Dundee United.

Simply looking at the League table isn't the only guide to progress.

I havent mentioned a league table though as such I have mentioned results and results are the bottom line, we will always play well and lose a game or play badly and win one thats the way it goes.

marinello59
16-03-2013, 07:37 PM
totally agree :greengrin. No seriously mate this is one of our rare agree times.

Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
:greengrin

500miles
16-03-2013, 08:07 PM
I havent mentioned a league table though as such I have mentioned results and results are the bottom line, we will always play well and lose a game or play badly and win one thats the way it goes.

To suggest that we haven't had exceptional poor fortune in the last couple of weeks is entirely unfair. United and Hearts were astonishingly bad decisions that cost us, and even against Killie and Ross County we created chances, and competed - being easily the better team in the Killie clash IMO. That is still progress, because we weren't even competing last year.

Viva_Palmeiras
17-03-2013, 07:59 AM
As I've mentioned before jury still out for me on Pat. Ability to change games or go for the jugular being a couple of my gripes.

But I'd make a few observations:

changing the culture at the club was vital
pat has made some inroads there where others previous either did nothing or made a bad situation worse. That seems too have lifted the mood a little and atmosphere at the games has improved.
He's kept his stated key players and lined up (Craig) or brought in additional quality (KT?). The target man were crying out for was attempted but a failed gamble in Kiki Dee.

The added 'bonus' was punching above(?) out weight in the cup but ultimately falling short. Whether we do the unimaginable this year or not revenues welcome given our recent form.

so 1.5 shuffles to the front .5 shuffles back.

Pedants sorry its Sunday and grammar mode and capitalisation is switched off ;)

Hibrandenburg
17-03-2013, 08:24 AM
Game against Falkirk is must win! It's our only chance of carrying something positive over into next season.

If that goes tits up then it will be hard to say any progress has been made.

Ray_
17-03-2013, 10:31 AM
If we finish bottom six, PF will say he has failed with his target.....Whilst we should be top 6 as a minimum, I still see it as a progression if we finish higher than last Season.......I am realistic that last Season was woeful in every way possible, but I still think we have progressed.....

Yes I expected top 6 at worst, but was that too much of an ask after last Season? We could still win that damn thing in May, and get a European spot to boot.....

To me, in the big scheme of things, any progress we have made is minimal in as much as at the end of this season, we will again be trying to secure the core of our team, as three of the most consistent performers, that you'd want to build the team around, aren't ours.

The most consistent feature of our club's recent history [since 2007], aside from our dire on and off field performances, is our annual rebuilding job.

Eyrie
17-03-2013, 10:57 AM
To me, in the big scheme of things, any progress we have made is minimal in as much as at the end of this season, we will again be trying to secure the core of our team, as three of the most consistent performers, that you'd want to build the team around, aren't ours.

The most consistent feature of our club's recent history [since 2007], aside from our dire on and off field performances, is our annual rebuilding job.

Which in itself is part of the reason that the performances have been dire. Teams like Motherwell or Ross COunty are just that - teams, where there is a core of players used to playing together. We haven't had that due to the annual clear out of the huddies. Fortunately Fenlon has in the main identified good players and we now have that core to build around.

I agree the key this summer is to keep Griffiths, Claros and McGivern (or at least two of them).

Hibernia&Alba
17-03-2013, 11:07 AM
We're no world beaters, fair enough, but if we finish top six, it would represent a huge improvement on last season. It's a work in progress. We need Pat to stick around for a good few years in order to provide consistency and to build something for once. I think we're heading in the right direction. Yes, current form is poor, but Celtic and Dundee aside, all the teams quite are evenly matched. The football has been much more enjoyable to watch this season, and I'm confident that next season will see us improve again. There's no need to get depressed, we're on an upward trajectory.

Tyler Durden
17-03-2013, 11:18 AM
They were fairly young when they signed for County. About 20-24. Players who needed to fulfil their potential. I think you'll find Ross County's excellent form coincided with Lawson's return to the team. There are rumours that he fell out with Adams, but is in his good books again. This is a laddie that's went about 50 games unbeaten, and looks like continuing that run today.
Hanlon - a player that apparently was never going to be good enough, according to some.... until he recaptured his form under Fenlon.
McPake - a Fenlon signing.
Claros - took time to bed in to the SPL. Was a passenger last season.
Griffiths - Showed promise last season, but was hot and cold. Has improved VASTLY under Pat, and don't think that is an easy job. Griffiths is not an easy character to handle. In fact, look at the difference that time has made to each of the above players? Every single one has improved - McPake is arguable, but I think he is less rash these days too.

So Pat has come in, cleared out almost completely, started building a team, and will continue to do so. Last year we were battling relegation, this year, we're looking for top six. We've been given no help by officials in the top six run-in, so we are struggling, as anyone would in a tight league like this. Next season Cairney, Hanlon, Wotherspoon and Doyle will all be better players, Harris looks promising, and if we keep hold of McGivern and Claros, they will be better players too. Williams didn't start the season great either, but has become our most reliable keeper in years. Liam Craig, a goalscoring midfielder, creative player, and all experienced SPL pro with his best years ahead of him will be in the team as well. We could even have a fit Kevin Thomson back.

Griffiths might leave. Some teams might not want to touch him because of the baggage. We'll see what happens when he goes back to Wolves - if he pisses off the manager again, he might be back in a Hibs shirt. If he doesn't, we won't play with 10 men, we'll sign someone else.

This will be the first season in three years where we have improved our league position compared to the previous year. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

And, of course, we have at least one trip to Hampden to look forward to. I'm not pleased with mediocrity, but I am pleased with not being absolute garbage. If we had the same team as last year, we would have crumbled in a competitive league like this. Relegation battlers with Dundee, no question.

If you can't see progress, and something to look forward to, then you don't want to.


Disagree re Ross County.

I do agree that Fenlon has signed some quality players and we are building a good core for next 2-3 years. Look forward to possible midfield of Thomson, Craig, Robertson next year.

However results have been poor for months and again I think the manager has to be questioned around his generally negative approach.

I certainly don't want to sack him, but we shouldn't just accept these results as we've been poor for years. We have the resources now to be up in 2nd or 3rd and that's what we should be demanding. That's my perspective.

Green Fish
17-03-2013, 06:04 PM
The best player that Ross County have is that boy Confidence. All the good teams have him every week. Middling teams have him in their team now and again. Struggling teams never seem to play him.

Confidence and HUNGER to WIN. Have been told that there wasnt a player in the RCteam on more than 800 pounds a week but with big win bonus incentive. Makes sense, no room for lazy players.