Just back from M'well - this is NOT a knee jerk post!

[The Voice Of Reason]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

[darrenmcintosh2]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

Great post mate! Tryed this on another thread. But the bigger boys got their hands to it.

Everything we are lacking you have pin pointed

[Iceman1875]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

I agree with everything you have said except the last part... wotherspoon wasn't the worst tonight. At least he tried unlike robertson and done...

[scuttle]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

Yes agree with most of this but Spoonys not the worse we have at the moment

[The Voice Of Reason]

I agree with everything you have said except the last part... wotherspoon wasn't the worst tonight. At least he tried unlike robertson and done...

I didn't say he was the worst tonight - I am simply fed up with him (over a period of time now).

He needs a move to show what a superstar he really is! (Tongue in cheek).

[Emerald]

I agree with everything you have said except the last part... wotherspoon wasn't the worst tonight. At least he tried unlike robertson and done...

I agree, the OP was spot on but Wotherspoon did at least try. Five in midfield and couldn't get a touch of the ball most of the time :bitchy:

[ggth]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

Spot on, can't argue with any of that, Its so frustrating that we get bossed around on the park with clubs who's budget is a lot smaller than ours

[The Voice Of Reason]

Yes agree with most of this but Spoonys not the worse we have at the moment

I can't think of many worse to be honest!

[HFC 0-7]

I agree with everything you have said except the last part... wotherspoon wasn't the worst tonight. At least he tried unlike robertson and done...

Agree, I think Wotherspoon tried to hard tonight to be fancy when getting past players. Didn't work out most of the time.

I did think we played poorly tonight, I think the system limited us. Griffiths was easily dealt with tonight and when that happens we don't have a chance when playing with 1 up top

[scuttle]

I can't think of many worse to be honest!

Ill raise you Shefki Kuqi and Matt Done

[Hibby 2005]

I agree with everything you have said except the last part... wotherspoon wasn't the worst tonight. At least he tried unlike robertson and done...

Agree about Robertson and Done was only bought as Petrie wouldn't fork out for a better player but to say Wotherspoon tried tonight is laughable.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Ill raise you Shefki Kuqi and Matt Done

Ok, so not many worse then - we are agreed ! :greengrin

[Emerald]

Agree, I think Wotherspoon tried to hard tonight to be fancy when getting past players. Didn't work out most of the time.

I did think we played poorly tonight, I think the system limited us. Griffiths was easily dealt with tonight and when that happens we don't have a chance when playing with 1 up top

Its not just the one up that does us though, its the isolation he's in. No one in the team ever tries to get in front of the ball. When we get the ball, Griffiths is usually the only one up the park, the player with the ball has then to slow down, check and 90% of the time go backwards. "Its football Jim but not as we know it". It is doing my nut in watching it, we are surely capable of better attacking football than this. :rolleyes:

[Raymond]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

Really?

[Iceman1875]

Agree about Robertson and Done was only bought as Petrie wouldn't fork out for a better player but to say Wotherspoon tried tonight is laughable.

Clearly at a different game then...

DW did try, granted not a lot came off for him but he gave it his all unlike Done or Robertson.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Its not just the one up that does us though, its the isolation he's in. No one in the team ever tries to get in front of the ball. When we get the ball, Griffiths is usually the only one up the park, the player with the ball has then to slow down, check and 90% of the time go backwards. "Its football Jim but not as we know it". It is doing my nut in watching it, we are surely capable of better attacking football than this. :rolleyes:

Spot on mate. :agree:

[scuttle]

Ok, so not many worse then - we are agreed ! :greengrin

Oh and i forgot about Pa Kujabi and....... ok agreed

[The Voice Of Reason]

Clearly at a different game then...

DW did try, granted not a lot came off for him but he have it his all and far from the Done or Robertson.

Iceman, I know he did try - but he was still largely ineffectual and poor. However my point about him was that I am sick fed up of paying good money to watch him "play". This is based over a period of time, not just tonight!

[bookert]

I can't think of many worse to be honest!

Our goal came from where? Never understand the spoony hate, he was the only hibs player who did anything creative.

[Alfred E Newman]

On the positive side, Harris looked the part again when he came on. Makes you wonder why the very ordinary Done was signed with the likes of Harris already there . Surely deserves a start in the next game before either Done or Wotherspoon.

[Sir David Gray]

Motherwell have a much more settled team out there and it showed tonight and it reflects where they are in the league.

Randolph-3 years
Hammell-14 years (barring a 2 year spell at Southend from 06-08)
Hutchinson-4 years
Ramsden-Less than 1 year
Law-2 years
Hateley-4 years
Lasley-14 years (barring a 2 year spell with Plymouth and Blackpool from 04-06)
Ojamaa-1 year
Higdon-2 years
Higginbotham-2 months
McFadden-1 month

The majority of that team has been at the club for at least 2 years and in McFadden, they have a top player that really should be too good for the SPL.

We on the other hand have;

Williams-Less than 1 year
McGivern-Less than 1 year
McPake-1 year
Maybury-Less than 1 year
Claros-1 year
Wotherspoon-4 years
Stevenson-8 years
Done-2 months
Taiwo-Less than 1 year
Robertson-2 months
Griffiths-2 years

With the exception of Griffiths, Wotherspoon and Stevenson, all of our players who started tonight have barely been with us for 12 months.

I wouldn't dismiss that as a major factor.

[The Voice Of Reason]

On the positive side, Harris looked the part again when he came on. Makes you wonder why the very ordinary Done was signed with the likes of Harris already there . Surely deserves a start in the next game before either Done or Wotherspoon.

Totally agree sir :agree::top marks

[matty_f]

Motherwell have a much more settled team out there and it showed tonight and it reflects where they are in the league.

Randolph-3 years
Hammell-14 years (barring a 2 year spell at Southend from 06-08)
Hutchinson-4 years
Ramsden-Less than 1 year
Law-2 years
Hateley-4 years
Lasley-14 years (barring a 2 year spell with Plymouth and Blackpool from 04-06)
Ojamaa-1 year
Higdon-2 years
Higginbotham-2 months
McFadden-1 month

The majority of that team has been at the club for at least 2 years and in McFadden, they have a top player that really should be too good for the SPL.

We on the other hand have;

Williams-Less than 1 year
McGivern-Less than 1 year
McPake-1 year
Maybury-Less than 1 year
Claros-1 year
Wotherspoon-4 years
Stevenson-8 years
Done-2 months
Taiwo-Less than 1 year
Robertson-2 months
Griffiths-2 years

With the exception of Griffiths, Wotherspoon and Stevenson, all of our players who started tonight have barely been with us for 12 months.

I wouldn't dismiss that as a major factor.

Good point. :agree:

[Hibby 2005]

Clearly at a different game then...

DW did try, granted not a lot came off for him but he gave it his all unlike Done or Robertson.

How many times did Wotherspoon shoot on target? Tackle? 50-50's he never wins. Still he does do great dummies and cuts inside before being robbed of the ball 9 times out of 10.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Motherwell have a much more settled team out there and it showed tonight and it reflects where they are in the league.

Randolph-3 years
Hammell-14 years (barring a 2 year spell at Southend from 06-08)
Hutchinson-4 years
Ramsden-Less than 1 year
Law-2 years
Hateley-4 years
Lasley-14 years (barring a 2 year spell with Plymouth and Blackpool from 04-06)
Ojamaa-1 year
Higdon-2 years
Higginbotham-2 months
McFadden-1 month

The majority of that team has been at the club for at least 2 years and in McFadden, they have a top player that really should be too good for the SPL.

We on the other hand have;

Williams-Less than 1 year
McGivern-Less than 1 year
McPake-1 year
Maybury-Less than 1 year
Claros-1 year
Wotherspoon-4 years
Stevenson-8 years
Done-2 months
Taiwo-Less than 1 year
Robertson-2 months
Griffiths-2 years

With the exception of Griffiths, Wotherspoon and Stevenson, all of our players who started tonight have barely been with us for 12 months.

I wouldn't dismiss that as a major factor.

Fair point FH - I happen to think that their players are better than ours, albeit some of them have been there a little bit longer.

P.S Stevenson and Wotherspoon should be world beaters as they have been with us for 12 years in total !!!!!! :dizzy::confused::greengrin

[Emerald]

Motherwell have a much more settled team out there and it showed tonight and it reflects where they are in the league.

Randolph-3 years
Hammell-14 years (barring a 2 year spell at Southend from 06-08)
Hutchinson-4 years
Ramsden-Less than 1 year
Law-2 years
Hateley-4 years
Lasley-14 years (barring a 2 year spell with Plymouth and Blackpool from 04-06)
Ojamaa-1 year
Higdon-2 years
Higginbotham-2 months
McFadden-1 month

The majority of that team has been at the club for at least 2 years and in McFadden, they have a top player that really should be too good for the SPL.

We on the other hand have;

Williams-Less than 1 year
McGivern-Less than 1 year
McPake-1 year
Maybury-Less than 1 year
Claros-1 year
Wotherspoon-4 years
Stevenson-8 years
Done-2 months
Taiwo-Less than 1 year
Robertson-2 months
Griffiths-2 years

With the exception of Griffiths, Wotherspoon and Stevenson, all of our players who started tonight have barely been with us for 12 months.

I wouldn't dismiss that as a major factor.

Its maybe their birth signs, have you thought about that? Or its maybe because we have signed folk like Matt Done who are pish and we have very poor negative tactics. Ben Williams is the best keeper we've had in years, how does that compute? What about Harris, been here two minutes and already 'looks' better than most we have brought from Ireland/England. Although I agree a team that has been together longer should be better, in this era you aint gonna get it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Thought we were poor all over the park Tonight. Looked lethargic, no urgency, easily brushed aside.....

Can't abhor seeing players backing off, as was the case for the second, when the boy waltzed past them all....

Looked like we were not interested, at times we were pedestrian.....Can't understand why players don't shoot on sight, is it lack of confidence? Really deflated after watching that, I thought we were over being over-run and bullied, not on Tonight's display....

[matty_f]

Thought we were poor all over the park Tonight. Looked lethargic, no urgency, easily brushed aside.....

Can't abhor seeing players backing off, as was the case for the second, when the boy waltzed past them all....

Looked like we were not interested, at times we were pedestrian.....Can't understand why players don't shoot on sight, is it lack of confidence? Really deflated after watching that, I thought we were over being over-run and bullied, not on Tonight's display....

I think Motherwell played with belief, and we looked scared to be honest. You'd have thought we'd have learned about backing off players after the Killie game at Easter Road where we stood off and let them score, but apparently not.

[smack]

I must be watching a different game from you lot. I thought Wotherspoon was our best player until Harris came on. Strange how you didn't mention how bad claros was, or maybe you didnt realise he was playing

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think Motherwell played with belief, and we looked scared to be honest. You'd have thought we'd have learned about backing off players after the Killie game at Easter Road where we stood off and let them score, but apparently not.

Not sure I should be talking to a "wanger":greengrin

I just wish we would stop backing off, and shooting on sight at the other end....Yeah scared is maybe a good analysis, but why are we scared? God it's infuriating, I wish I had hair to pull out......

[Captain Trips]

You cannot argue we had made progress on last season at a great rate but we have also showed nothing of note for quite a long time now. As quick as we progressed in first 10 - 15 games the same cannot be said for last 15 that isnt knee jerk, to praise our progress after 15 games was right to ask serious questions of last 15 is also valid.

Progress has to be maintained and it has not been and for me it is to long a period to be simply form.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I must be watching a different game from you lot. I thought Wotherspoon was our best player until Harris came on. Strange how you didn't mention how bad claros was, or maybe you didnt realise he was playing

I thought Spoony was average at best....He looks low on confidence, and looks disinterested at times....He put in a superb cross for Taiwo's goal, right on a plate for him, why do we not see more of this from him?

[smack]

I thought Spoony was average at best....He looks low on confidence, and looks disinterested at times....He put in a superb cross for Taiwo's goal, right on a plate for him, why do we not see more of this from him?

So you're agreeing with me that spoony was our best player because everyone else was way below average

[matty_f]

Not sure I should be talking to a "wanger":greengrin

I just wish we would stop backing off, and shooting on sight at the other end....Yeah scared is maybe a good analysis, but why are we scared? God it's infuriating, I wish I had hair to pull out......

I think players didn't want to dive into tackles on McFadden (or the others) because they were worried they'd get made to look stupid by them (ironically missing the point that they didn't look to clever backing off).

I also think that the fact we were 2-0 up against them earlier in the season and went on to lose has a bearing on the mentality of the players. Motherwell are a fast, attacking team - I don't think the players had the belief to commit themselves into attacking positions for fear of getting exposed defensively.

The trouble is we didn't give Motherwell anything to worry about. Had McPake's header made it 2-0, it might have been different, but at 1-0 we weren't confident enough to see it out.

[Emerald]

I think Motherwell played with belief, and we looked scared to be honest. You'd have thought we'd have learned about backing off players after the Killie game at Easter Road where we stood off and let them score, but apparently not.

I said this on a thread last week, we are playing scared football. We need to press and impose otherwise the opposition runs over us. We have the players in the squad who are more than capable of doing this. I don't know what Kevin Thomson is like now and it would be wrong to assume he is still the player he was but, in a situation like tonight what is the point of him being unused on the bench. :dunno:

[Baldy Foghorn]

So you're agreeing with me that spoony was our best player because everyone else was way below average

Emmmm, no.....In no way Spoony was our best player IMO

[kaimendhibs]

I must be watching a different game from you lot. I thought Wotherspoon was our best player until Harris came on. Strange how you didn't mention how bad claros was, or maybe you didnt realise he was playing

Really, spoony was total garbage tonight. Claros won many tackles and can at least hs the ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leishy1995]

Wotherspoon on the ball done more than most, look around the squad. Where is the Leigh Griffiths the read, he done nothing.

[scotiaf]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.


I think maybe you are a little frustrated after paying money and watching us fall apart in the 2nd half

They were the better team till we scored, then we could have been 3 up by half time. 2nd half we were poor and cost 2 out of 4 goals


Weatherspoon set up out only goal with a good cross and run.. So there was definetly worse out there.


Thommo will get a chance in the team, but he plays in Claros position who has been arguably our best player.

So yes it was not pretty to watch but we were probably lucky to win by 4 the last time. So what goes around comes around

[hibbysam]

On the David Wotherspoon bashing note, people comment how he doesn't have confidence to try take a man on etc, yet tonight I saw him numerous occasions try different things to get the better of a very good left back in Hammell, some came off some didn't, one that did come off he put a superb ball in and our goal came from it...

Yet those same people that have a go at him for not trying things, also have a go at him when he does try it and it doesn't come off...

He is an SPL player, playing in an SPL team, he isn't gonna skin players left right and centre, just unfortunate for Hibs that McFadden turned up tonight and showed why he isn't an SPL player.

Also the OP mentioning we showed to have no pace on the wing, when for half an hour tonight I watched a young Alex Harris, full of pace, trickery and confidence to try things...

Beaten by a better team, get up, dust ourselves down, and move on to the next game...

[The Voice Of Reason]

On the David Wotherspoon bashing note, people comment how he doesn't have confidence to try take a man on etc, yet tonight I saw him numerous occasions try different things to get the better of a very good left back in Hammell, some came off some didn't, one that did come off he put a superb ball in and our goal came from it...

Yet those same people that have a go at him for not trying things, also have a go at him when he does try it and it doesn't come off...

He is an SPL player, playing in an SPL team, he isn't gonna skin players left right and centre, just unfortunate for Hibs that McFadden turned up tonight and showed why he isn't an SPL player.

Also the OP mentioning we showed to have no pace on the wing, when for half an hour tonight I watched a young Alex Harris, full of pace, trickery and confidence to try things...

Beaten by a better team, get up, dust ourselves down, and move on to the next game...

Harris was the only positive for me.

My point about Wotherspoon is that he has been mostly dire for quite some time now. I am fed up paying good money (my choice I know) to watch him.

[hibsmad]

You cannot argue we had made progress on last season at a great rate but we have also showed nothing of note for quite a long time now. As quick as we progressed in first 10 - 15 games the same cannot be said for last 15 that isnt knee jerk, to praise our progress after 15 games was right to ask serious questions of last 15 is also valid.

Progress has to be maintained and it has not been and for me it is to long a period to be simply form.

I think that the initial improvement came from Fenlons undoubted ability to improve on the work ethic and belief in the squad.

To now take us to the next level we need to see if Fenlon can:

A - More often than not identify a high enough calibre of player within the budget we have.

and

B - Display that he has the tactical nous to succeed at this level.

I think Fenlon has been brilliant for Hibs to get us out of the extremely large hole that we were in. However, I will reserve judgement on whether he is a good enough manager at this level or not until next season.

I am extremely hopeful though that he is!

[Thecat23]

I can't believe how everyone is mentioning how bad Spoony was yet not one person has spoke about McPake. He for me was the worst player on that park tonight by a mile. Spoony was poor don't get me wrong but McPake looked pished when casing the ball and getting corkscrewed Into the ground by the well player for the equaliser. Just because he's not the usual scapegoat it's about time he raised his game because recently he's had a few shockers. If it was Maybury fans would be up in arms.

[HH81]

I can't believe how everyone is mentioning how bad Spoony was yet not one person has spoke about McPake. He for me was the worst player on that park tonight by a mile. Spoony was poor don't get me wrong but McPake looked pished when casing the ball and getting corkscrewed Into the ground by the well player for the equaliser. Just because he's not the usual scapegoat it's about time he raised his game because recently he's had a few shockers. If it was Maybury fans would be up in arms.

Correct.

[Alfred E Newman]

I must be watching a different game from you lot. I thought Wotherspoon was our best player until Harris came on. Strange how you didn't mention how bad claros was, or maybe you didnt realise he was playing

I think you were watching a different game. Wotherspoon did do well to get ýthe cross in for the goal but other than that he was awful. I feel a bit sorry for him, he is trying his best but he has no fight in him, no pace, and totally lacking in confidence. Fenlon has dumped Cairney because he reckons he needs a rest yet persists with Wotherspoon . As far as last nights game was concerned we were outplayed by a far better team.

[southsider]

Our scouting system stinks and has done since John Park left for celtic. All the smaller clubs like ict. motherwell, ross c, st j seem to get decent players from lower leagues in england and up here. Need a complete re-vamp.

[Heisenberg]

Our scouting system stinks and has done since John Park left for celtic. All the smaller clubs like ict. motherwell, ross c, st j seem to get decent players from lower leagues in england and up here. Need a complete re-vamp.

If what Fenlon has said is correct then we didnt even have a proper scouting system in place before he arrived and its only been this season when we've managed to get something started in that area. Shows how badly we were run previously.

[judas]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

Agree with your comments, except for spoony and Robertson. The former has demonstrated that he has something, the latter that there is potential.

Doyle belongs in a lower league.

The rest are going through the motions.

Pat has his work cut out. Griffiths is a certainty to leave next year and Claros is unlikely to stay.

Desperately want pat to succeed, because changing managers every year or so is impairing the clubs progress. But time is running out. Top 6 is a fair expectation for a club of hibs size. Anything less is failure.

[Leithenhibby]

Agree, I think Wotherspoon tried to hard tonight to be fancy when getting past players. Didn't work out most of the time.

I did think we played poorly tonight, I think the system limited us. Griffiths was easily dealt with tonight and when that happens we don't have a chance when playing with 1 up top


That was a wee lesson for us tonight, just hope we can learn from it!, fast.

A huge positive for me (and possibly the only one from tonight) was Alex Harris, he will be a star I have no doubt.......... :aok:

[Golden Bear]

Our scouting system stinks and has done since John Park left for celtic. All the smaller clubs like ict. motherwell, ross c, st j seem to get decent players from lower leagues in england and up here. Need a complete re-vamp.

Yip.

Scouting or the lack of scouting is definitely an area where the Board should be held to account. Football is the main business of the Club after all.

[cabbageandribs1875]

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

Rant over.


but we are building a team, just a pity it feels like we're building a team every season

[Leithenhibby]

Agree with your comments, except for spoony and Robertson. The former has demonstrated that he has something, the latter that there is potential.

Doyle belongs in a lower league.

The rest are going through the motions.

Pat has his work cut out. Griffiths is a certainty to leave next year and Claros is unlikely to stay.

Desperately want pat to succeed, because changing managers every year or so is impairing the clubs progress. But time is running out. Top 6 is a fair expectation for a club of hibs size. Anything less is failure.

I agree, I also want him to turn it around and I'm sure he will, giving time. Changing manager is not an option for this club, we do have the right man to take us forward and just have to hang-in...

We can feel sorry for ourselves as much as we like re: penalty v Dun Utd and that goal that never was!... we, as a club can move forward, and in many way's from last season we have. It just goes to show the mess that we were left in by managers from the past :rolleyes:

[Golden Bear]

First things first, I thought Motherwell were excellent.........but it only makes it more obvious where we are sadly lacking - they have everything we don't :-

Pace
Strength
High level of fitness
A partnership up front
A centre forward who is strong and holds the ball up - he regularly causes havoc
Wingers who are tricky and have ability
A manager who is good at finding players

On to our team :-

Wotherspoon - yet another abysmal performance
Done - looks shocking
Robertson - also looks shocking
Mcpake - poor 2nd half
Stevenson - very poor
Maybury - not the answer
Doyle - doesn't look like he can change a game

Fenlon - I dont think he has an eye for a player - give you Kuqi, kujabi, done, Robertson, Doyle. Also, What is the point in having KT for a short period of time if he doesn't play him and try and get him match fit - surely he could have thrown him on in the latter stages?!? Our performances of late (even forgetting results) have been dreadful.

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.

To finish, if Fenlon gives Wotherspoon a contract extension then i am going to stop paying to watch hibs. I am fed up paying good money to watch dross like him (nowt against the laddie personally).

Rant over.

:agree:

I thought that Maybury was one of the few who achieved pass marks last night but otherwise in the cold light of day your post really is an excellent rant.

[Heisenberg]

I don't really recall any of St Johnstone, Motherwell, Dundee Utd or even Ross County having to completely rebuild from a team as bad as we had last season?

Inverness have either got a brilliant scout or two or got really lucky and signed a load of good quality free transfers from down south. County showed when they were in the first that they had a team more than capable of mixing it with the big boys and that's how it's happened, although I think that is a case of them having a better manager. The rest of the teams above us have had a much more settled squad for a season or two now, we've been in a terrible cycle of signing pish players and paying off pish managers for years now, maybe a bit of stability wouldn't do us wrong and we could wait and see where it leads. If its bottom six again then the writing is on the wall, for now ill sit tight and see what happens.

[jdships]

My opinion for what it is worth ! :greengrin:wink:

Most importantly McPake is and will never be an SPL standard C/B . Too often he depends on other players to cover for his deficiencies and his decision making under pressure was shown up last night .
Think this is the key to one of the problems - find a top class C/B which is the keystone for any team

We don't seem to be able to find a settled ' 2 & 3' which is so important in modern football

We have what appears to be a surfeit of midfielders which has created a problem in finding the right balance

What is the answer ?
Certainly hope it is not going to be changing manager's yet again !!:rolleyes:

:flag:

[Craig_in_Prague]

We are 90mins from a consecutive SC final.

Not going to get all hot and bothered about Top 6, because it is the biggest piece of nonsense in world football and this season shows exactly why. Throw in 3 away/home games against certain teams and its a sporting farce IMO.

Last night hurt, BUT Thomson and Harris IMO will now come into the side and be nice and ready for Hampden.

A lot to fight for, stick with the team and manager. Liam Craig already signed up so next season I am sure Pat will take us further.

Lets do what no other side has in 111 years. Grit our teeth and win this damn SC. It is there for the taken.

[Captain Trips]

but we are building a team, just a pity it feels like we're building a team every season

The problem is that team we are building is likey to lose 2/3 of they key factors in that process so unless there is a surprise we will be replacing key players so I am strugling to see where this build is going though Harris is now part of build.

It really is a season of two halfs so far and the efforts of the first half with credit rightfully given I believe it is fair to criticise a run that if we are progressing shouldnt be happening really.

[hibsitis]

Our goal came from where? Never understand the spoony hate, he was the only hibs player who did anything creative.

Damned by faint praise. Although he has scored some great goals for us his performances are far too inconsistent and his distribution its appalling

[joebakerforever]

It is looking like another bottom 6 finish is on the cards (behind Motherwell, Ross co, iCT, st j, dun Utd) all of whom have much smaller budgets than us - but better managers than us IMHO.



Are the transfer budgets of SPL clubs available in the public domain ?

I've never come across them so unless they exist, it appears we all presume Hibs spend more than the other clubs.

If anyone has a link to SPL clubs transfer outlays, can they provide the url.

[Sir David Gray]

Are the transfer budgets of SPL clubs available in the public domain ?

I've never come across them so unless they exist, it appears we all presume Hibs spend more than the other clubs.

If anyone has a link to SPL clubs transfer outlays, can they provide the url.

Hibs have stated on numerous occasions that we have the 4th highest transfer budget in the SPL. That was before the demise of Rangers so assuming that the 3 teams who had higher transfer budgets than us were Rangers, Celtic and Hearts, we now have the 3rd highest transfer budget in the SPL.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Motherwell have a much more settled team out there and it showed tonight and it reflects where they are in the league.

Randolph-3 years
Hammell-14 years (barring a 2 year spell at Southend from 06-08)
Hutchinson-4 years
Ramsden-Less than 1 year
Law-2 years
Hateley-4 years
Lasley-14 years (barring a 2 year spell with Plymouth and Blackpool from 04-06)
Ojamaa-1 year
Higdon-2 years
Higginbotham-2 months
McFadden-1 month

The majority of that team has been at the club for at least 2 years and in McFadden, they have a top player that really should be too good for the SPL.

We on the other hand have;

Williams-Less than 1 year
McGivern-Less than 1 year
McPake-1 year
Maybury-Less than 1 year
Claros-1 year
Wotherspoon-4 years
Stevenson-8 years
Done-2 months
Taiwo-Less than 1 year
Robertson-2 months
Griffiths-2 years

With the exception of Griffiths, Wotherspoon and Stevenson, all of our players who started tonight have barely been with us for 12 months.

I wouldn't dismiss that as a major factor.

Agree with this. Problem is I can see a significant part of our team leaving in summer.

I didn't think Weatherspoon was a stand out bad performer and he did well to set up a goal. He's had a few assists in recent weeks. I also think Robertson will turn out to be good for us. He was good at united and played for Scotland so he has the ability to do well in the SPL. Next season I think we'll see a lot more (assuming he's still contracted?)

[joebakerforever]

Hibs have stated on numerous occasions that we have the 4th highest transfer budget in the SPL. That was before the demise of Rangers so assuming that the 3 teams who had higher transfer budgets than us were Rangers, Celtic and Hearts, we now have the 3rd highest transfer budget in the SPL.

So where are the actual figures published to support this assertion ?

[cad]

My opinion for what it is worth ! :greengrin:wink:

Most importantly McPake is and will never be an SPL standard C/B . Too often he depends on other players to cover for his deficiencies and his decision making under pressure was shown up last night .
Think this is the key to one of the problems - find a top class C/B which is the keystone for any team

We don't seem to be able to find a settled ' 2 & 3' which is so important in modern football

We have what appears to be a surfeit of midfielders which has created a problem in finding the right balance

What is the answer ?
Certainly hope it is not going to be changing manager's yet again !!:rolleyes:

:flag:


:top marks


We gave the ball away cheaply, from misplaced passing to the dreaded hoof that creeps in when the panics on,still awfi soft Higdon was impressive for a carthorse tho.
Well made space and have pace plus McFadden , so to keep feeding them the ball it was only a matter of time .
Yet if McPake scores number 2 its a different ball game well you would like to think so.