Reactions and explanations re: that decision (merged)

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

... to get over it? Like many here I've watched it several times, and the fact that it was such an amazing free kick unrewarded really bothers me.

But - quick psychological test. When it happened to Lampard in the World Cup against Germany, I wonder how many of the posters here (a) batted an eyelid (b) cried out for goal line technology as an urgent moral imperative (c) suspected masonic conspiracy?

It happens. Part of the glorious uncertainty that is football. 'Part and parcel of the game'. SUMO - shut up & move on.

[Keith_M]

I'm a bit concerned that some people on here are seeing this as part of some big conspiracy. This is down purely and simply to incompetence.

The referees supervisor has supported the ref and linesman because that's what they always do. The biggest issue here is that officials have closed ranks and won't admit that this is a monumental cockup.

The official story is that the ref was doing his job by watching the wall and the linesman was doing his job by watching for offside. This conveniently omits the fact that there appeared to be no-one watching the goals. If this is true, it can be nothing else but a humungous mistake on their part. It would be good if they made a start by actually admitting it.

[lapsedhibee]

When it happened to Lampard in the World Cup against Germany, I wonder how many of the posters here (a) batted an eyelid (b) cried out for goal line technology as an urgent moral imperative (c) suspected masonic conspiracy?


Suspect a good number of posters on here, like me, (d) lolled out loud.

[Caversham Green]

... to get over it? Like many here I've watched it several times, and the fact that it was such an amazing free kick unrewarded really bothers me.

But - quick psychological test. When it happened to Lampard in the World Cup against Germany, I wonder how many of the posters here (a) batted an eyelid (b) cried out for goal line technology as an urgent moral imperative (c) suspected masonic conspiracy?

It happens. Part of the glorious uncertainty that is football. 'Part and parcel of the game'. SUMO - shut up & move on.

There are significant differences between the Lampard incident and this one.

Lampard's shot was from open play so the ref and linesman were not necessarily in the optimum position to see the ball cross the line.
The Lampard incident happened far more quickly and Lampard was closer to the goal, so the ref and linesman had less time to adjust their sightlines and reactions.
The ball was not as far over the line in the Lampard incident.
England lost that game 4-1 if the goal had been given it would have been 4-2 and they still would have been out of the cup, in Sparky's case it was the difference between a win and a draw, which could cost our club dear.

However there was a fairly long thread on here at the time about goal line technology, with the majority in favour. At the very least this incident exposes staggering incompetence on the part of the linesman - he wasn't watching the ball as it travelled towards the goal?...Really? - but it doesn't appear that anything is being done about it by the authorities.

[Killiehibbie]

I posted a story from the Glasgow herald on another thread, and it mentioned the cost (£300000) to installing GLT! Now I can understand that's a lot of money to teams the 1st/2nd/3rd division (and hertz :greengrin), but the SPL are quick to draw up guidelines for teams wishing to join the SPL (6000 all seater stadiums/Under-soil heating ect) so why can't they insist that teams must provide a small monitor for the 4th Official that is linked up to the BBC cameras (as they cover all the SPL games). It's not perfect, but at least it's start! :agree:
A few cameras linked to a monitor wouldn't cost that much if they didn't want to involve the BBC. How many cameras cover our movements every day of the week?

[JimBHibees]

I'm a bit concerned that some people on here are seeing this as part of some big conspiracy. This is down purely and simply to incompetence.

The referees supervisor has supported the ref and linesman because that's what they always do. The biggest issue here is that officials have closed ranks and won't admit that this is a monumental cockup.

The official story is that the ref was doing his job by watching the wall and the linesman was doing his job by watching for offside. This conveniently omits the fact that there appeared to be no-one watching the goals. If this is true, it can be nothing else but a humungous mistake on their part. It would be good if they made a start by actually admitting it.

I am not sure anyone is saying conspiracy however the fact it was such a monumental error and the same guy appears to have been involved in giving Hearts a highly dubious penalty in the last minute v St Johnstone to keep them in the cup last season and allegedly appears to also support Hearts may question whether he was indeed impartial in his decision making.

[--------]

I am not sure anyone is saying conspiracy however the fact it was such a monumental error and the same guy appears to have been involved in giving Hearts a highly dubious penalty in the last minute v St Johnstone to keep them in the cup last season and allegedly appears to also support Hearts may question whether he was indeed impartial in his decision making.

Exactly. :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

There are significant differences between the Lampard incident and this one.

Lampard's shot was from open play so the ref and linesman were not necessarily in the optimum position to see the ball cross the line.
The Lampard incident happened far more quickly and Lampard was closer to the goal, so the ref and linesman had less time to adjust their sightlines and reactions.
The ball was not as far over the line in the Lampard incident.
England lost that game 4-1 if the goal had been given it would have been 4-2 and they still would have been out of the cup, in Sparky's case it was the difference between a win and a draw, which could cost our club dear.

Also, the goal line wasn't perfectly straight in the Lampard incident.

[HibeeN]

There are significant differences between the Lampard incident and this one.

Lampard's shot was from open play so the ref and linesman were not necessarily in the optimum position to see the ball cross the line.
The Lampard incident happened far more quickly and Lampard was closer to the goal, so the ref and linesman had less time to adjust their sightlines and reactions.
The ball was not as far over the line in the Lampard incident.
England lost that game 4-1 if the goal had been given it would have been 4-2 and they still would have been out of the cup, in Sparky's case it was the difference between a win and a draw, which could cost our club dear.

However there was a fairly long thread on here at the time about goal line technology, with the majority in favour. At the very least this incident exposes staggering incompetence on the part of the linesman - he wasn't watching the ball as it travelled towards the goal?...Really? - but it doesn't appear that anything is being done about it by the authorities.

I agree with all of this, apart from the bold. Had Lampard's goal gone in it would have brought the scores level at 2-2, so I'd still say the decision had a major impact.

[PatHead]

The best way it could have been handled as the ball was out of play was for the referee to ask the 4th official without letting on, make out he was going over to the linesman to buy time, have a wee word with the linesman and act on the 4th officials direction. Basically apply common sense. I am sure that happens time and time again.

It didn't happen though and hopefully they will get a decision against them in the final next week, we get a decision on Friday and the linesman gets binned from big games for the rest of his career doing lower league games like The Rangers v The Hearts.

Apart from us not winning the bit that annoys me is the lack of an apology. These guys think they are more infallible than a Pope.

[JimBHibees]

The best way it could have been handled as the ball was out of play was for the referee to ask the 4th official without letting on, make out he was going over to the linesman to buy time, have a wee word with the linesman and act on the 4th officials direction. Basically apply common sense. I am sure that happens time and time again.

It didn't happen though and hopefully they will get a decision against them in the final next week, we get a decision on Friday and the linesman gets binned from big games for the rest of his career doing lower league games like The Rangers v The Hearts.

Apart from us not winning the bit that annoys me is the lack of an apology. These guys think they are more infallible than a Pope.

Completely agree, sorry we got it absolutely wrong however the linesmen are now being trained how to run and see at the same time. :greengrin

[hibs0666]

The referee supervisor is doing my thrupennies by saying that the linesman can only make a decision if he is 100%.

The linesman did make a bloody decision and so must have been 100% sure that the ball was not in. The incompetence is obvious. The fact that the ball would have hit a gravestone if it was any further is just makes it worse. :confused:

[Kato]

so must have been 100% sure that the ball was not in

He tells McPake - "it wasn't in", then tells the press "I couldn't see".

Liar, whichever way that's taken.

Snakes. Slippery, slithery, fork-tongued chancers.

[worcesterhibby]

The great thing about football is that it's exactly the same game, whether it's played at the Camp Nou, Easter Road or a Sunday league pitch. 2 goals, 22 players a ref and a couple of guys running the line. Take that away and you take away any soul the game has left. Video technology or goal line technology costs money..we might be able to afford it in the SPL, but not Div 2 and not Sunday league.

The great thing about sport is that it reflects real life. Work hard, play by the rules, do your best.. and when you win (or your team wins) it's uplifting and wonderful. But just like in life, there are bad breaks, injustices and sometimes luck seems to be with the other fella. You can judge yourself as a Man (or a woman) by how you react to these bad breaks. Do you dust yourself down, get back on your feet and resolve to try even harder ? or do you sit on your arse moaning that the world isn't fair ?

Hibs were robbed on Sunday, but the greetin needs to stop now. Man up, lift your head high and be proud to show some courage and resolution. The Linesman was jambo class, we are Hibs Class. Forget the Ref. forget the linesman, but always remember who you are...you are bigger and better than them, beacuse you are A HIBEE.

[Kato]

The great thing about football is that it's exactly the same game, whether it's played at the Camp Nou, Easter Road or a Sunday league pitch. 2 goals, 22 players a ref and a couple of guys running the line. Take that away and you take away any soul the game has left. Video technology or goal line technology costs money..we might be able to afford it in the SPL, but not Div 2 and not Sunday league.

The great thing about sport is that it reflects real life. Work hard, play by the rules, do your best.. and when you win (or your team wins) it's uplifting and wonderful. But just like in life, there are bad breaks, injustices and sometimes luck seems to be with the other fella. You can judge yourself as a Man (or a woman) by how you react to these bad breaks. Do you dust yourself down, get back on your feet and resolve to try even harder ? or do you sit on your arse moaning that the world isn't fair ?

Hibs were robbed on Sunday, but the greetin needs to stop now. Man up, lift your head high and be proud to show some courage and resolution. The Linesman was jambo class, we are Hibs Class. Forget the Ref. forget the linesman, but always remember who you are...you are bigger and better than them, beacuse you are A HIBEE.

Hi. I agree in essence with everything you are saying. It's also, more or less, the attitude the club has taken for many years. It means a lot to us but for those outwith Hibs it lends them the opportunity to say, "sit down, keep shush - we're looking into technology we say we can't afford and meanwhile training our officials to open their eyes at certain times. so tough".

Sick of it a wee bit to tell the truth as it's a charter to be a "carpet man" and let people walk all over you. At this time whilst trying to turn the club around I'd like them to make a bit of a stink when decisions don't go our way. It's time we got our share of "even-ing out", if such things do actually even out - never seen it myself.

[EH75]

I think there is a fairly good chance goal line technology will happen within the next few years within the SPL, and here is why:

They will be using goal line technology in the 2014 world cup. They will also be using it in next season's EPL. The next logical step would be to bring it in for European competitions, so any clubs in Scotland with European ambitions would then have to install it. Obviously outwith the OF there is not much chance of anyone making the Champions League but others will have Europa League ambitions. Even the "smaller" teams in the SPL such as Ross County and Inverness are up the top of the League this year and could make the Europa League qualifying rounds. Obviously this season is a bit unique due to the demise of Rangers but various smaller teams have made Europe in the past and will do in future. Whether goal line technology would be required for the qualifying rounds remains to be seen but you never know. If they are introducing it to the above competitions then you would imagine it will be introduced for international games and if Hibs have any ambitions for ER to be used for Scotland games then we would have to install it. Again, the exact level that goal line tech would be required for remains to be seen but my point is essentially that now it is starting to come in at the top level this will filter down until the smaller competitions have it. Okay I can't see it being introduced in division three but will we have it in the SPL (or whatever it is called by then) in 10 years time? Quite possibly IMO. Doesn't help what happened at the weekend of course, nothing we can do about that.

Another point is that goal line tech had been debated for year and years with FIFA always saying they were strongly against it....until a decision like the one we saw at the weekend contributed majorly to England being knocked out the world cup. Can you imagine if something like that had happened in a Scottish Cup final and changed the outcome of the game? Or in a league decider? Particularly if either of those were Rangers v Celtic games. I know that wouldn't happen at the moment due to the Rangers situation but I'm just giving an example which IMO would provoke the most media attention and outrage from the supporters. There would be riots in the street and we would have goal line technology the following season if Rangers or Celtic were denied the league or cup based on such a blatantly wrong decision.

As has also been mentioned by other posters the fact that the SPL already have rules which cost clubs massive amounts of money for no reason, specifically the 10k (then 6k) seating arrangements, undersoil heating etc kind of blows their "we're just protecting the clubs financially, honest" line out of the water. Whilst £300K is obviously a large sum of money in Scottish football its not like they would have to pay it all at once, I'm sure they could spread it over several years as with other stadium improvements.

[woody47]

For my pennies worth, what is most annoying is the aftermath.

Not one of the official er$e$ in charge have had the common decency to come out and apolgise for, what everyone knows, was a huge error. We are even geting ex ref, Kenny Clerk, making excuses for incompetency. To come up with the pathetic statement that the linesman was running 'at full pelt!!!!' and it was very difficult to see the ball crossing the line is utter BS. He just needed to open his ferking eyes and he would have seen the ball crossing the line.

I get so annoyed when these clowns close ranks and make up excuses for their obvious shortcomings. We might as well have no linesman for all the good they actually do.

How many times do they wait to see what the ref says before they lift their flags.

WASTE OF FRESH AIR AND A WAGE!"

[EH75]

Aye they should certainly be held accountable and I would like to see them being obliged to give an interview after the game to explain the decisions. I believe there are other countires where this happens, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Would also like to see them mic'ed up like the rugby refs and only the captains being allowed to speak to them. Automatic bookings for everyone crowding the ref. Think this would help to build respect between players, officials and fans. Maybe.

[Onion]

Aye they should certainly be held accountable and I would like to see them being obliged to give an interview after the game to explain the decisions. I believe there are other countires where this happens, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Would also like to see them mic'ed up like the rugby refs and only the captains being allowed to speak to them. Automatic bookings for everyone crowding the ref. Think this would help to build respect between players, officials and fans. Maybe.

Better to remain silent and be thought of as a corrupt, Yam-lovin' incompetent than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

The SFA/SPL know that Scottish refs are thick as **** and would just make things worse if they were to even TRY explain some of their decisions.

[Jonnyboy]

From that picture I fail tae see how either of them couldnae see that ball crossing the line. I saw it from three quarters the length of the stadium.

Well apparently the lino was running at full pelt J. Just where he was running is unclear from the pic :wink:

[HiBremian]

9478

I see the match officials have been called in by their sponsors.

[grunt]

Not one of the official er$e$ in charge have had the common decency to come out and apolgise for, what everyone knows, was a huge error. Agreed.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Looks to me as if the ref had a clear view of the goal aswell.

Also shows Webster is the only player anticipating a save or rebound.


But Webster is only one running back to head it clear (as you can see on the photo aswell) Doyle and I think mcpake came running in after Webster had knocked it over the bar. Therefore he was the only one anticipating the shot coming back. (insert stupid confussed face)

Doyle reacted, however he hesitated for a split second to celebrate the goal, thus meaning he couldn't get on the end of the rebound.

[The_Sauz]

A few cameras linked to a monitor wouldn't cost that much if they didn't want to involve the BBC. How many cameras cover our movements every day of the week?

:aok: 4 CCTV cameras fixed to the corners of the east/west stands and a monitor/recorder for the 4th official would cost no more than £5000

[The_Sauz]

... to get over it? Like many here I've watched it several times, and the fact that it was such an amazing free kick unrewarded really bothers me.

But - quick psychological test. When it happened to Lampard in the World Cup against Germany, I wonder how many of the posters here (a) batted an eyelid (b) cried out for goal line technology as an urgent moral imperative (c) suspected masonic conspiracy?

It happens. Part of the glorious uncertainty that is football. 'Part and parcel of the game'. SUMO - shut up & move on.

That is the problem!!
The SFA/SPL/SFL want us all to do this, as it is a way of them hiding from the real facts..........our standard of officiating is very poor!
How many times have we heard that the game is a lot faster now, and that officials are human and will make mistakes? So what have the governing bodies done to compensate for this...........NOTHING!
They allow balloons masked as a football to be used, as it makes it easier for players to bend and shoot from longer distance (forget about input from GK's) and make up some new and fancy rules that nobody can follow/understands, then turn around and say it's down to the discretion of the Ref to which rules apply during a game.....wtf!

[heretoday]

... to get over it? Like many here I've watched it several times, and the fact that it was such an amazing free kick unrewarded really bothers me.

But - quick psychological test. When it happened to Lampard in the World Cup against Germany, I wonder how many of the posters here (a) batted an eyelid (b) cried out for goal line technology as an urgent moral imperative (c) suspected masonic conspiracy?

It happens. Part of the glorious uncertainty that is football. 'Part and parcel of the game'. SUMO - shut up & move on.

Hear Hear!

[FranckSuzy]

The new (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/Welcome) marketing campaign has been amended :wink:

[green glory]

The new (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/Welcome) marketing campaign has been amended :wink:

The 'tache doesn't miss a trick does he? Good if it helps sell more ST's. I have a feeling me might sell more that the maroon lemmings this year.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The new (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/Welcome) marketing campaign has been amended :wink:

Whereabout?

[FranckSuzy]

Whereabout?

Top row, second from left :wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Top row, second from left :wink:

On the official site? Shows a plaster and "do you bleed green"

[FranckSuzy]

On the official site? Shows a plaster and "do you bleed green"

If you click on the link (the word 'new' in green)on my post it takes you there :greengrin

[Saorsa]

On the official site? Shows a plaster and "do you bleed green"On the splash screen on the home page

[Danderhall Hibs]

If you click on the link (the word 'new' in green)on my post it takes you there :greengrin

Cheers - didn't see the link.

[McIntosh]

Dear Mr Broadfoot (SFA Director of Communications),

Thank you for your most interesting phone message left on my answer machine. Unfortunately, your comments where in some areas material incorrect. While I write extensively upon the subject of health my role is now academic and political - I have the great privilege of being a political adviser.

Mr Broadfoot, your call on many levels was quite sarcastic, however I think you know this as this was your intent. Leaving a recorded message of this type was naive at best, foolish at worst. This notwithstanding, I am absolutely certain that you would not have left this type of message if you had been made aware that members of the SFA Board where already aware of our communications. If you where to reflect upon this matter I am confident after listening to your own message you would have taken both a different tone and approach.

In relation to the substantive matter Mr Fleming's comments on the refereeing on Sunday at the Hibernian Versus Hearts game. Mr Fleming acknowledged an error, however this was not an apology in any shape or form. Human error in all things is to be expected but when there is no contrition or apology it appears as stupidity, folly and arrogance. The minimum the supporters, the players and the club deserve is a clear, transparent and unequivocal apology.

Sadly, the SFA has a long standing historical reputation for institutional arrogance and a staggering inability to apologise when it makes a mistake or causes offence. I hope that you on a personal level have not been infected by this condition. I know of no known cure for that type of malaise.

Please let me know of your availability to discuss these matter verbally. I await your reply with interest.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Dear Mr Broadfoot (SFA Director of Communications),

Thank you for your most interesting phone message left on my answer machine. Unfortunately, your comments where in some areas material incorrect. While I write extensively upon the subject of health my role is now academic and political - I have the great privilege of being a political adviser.

Mr Broadfoot, your call on many levels was quite sarcastic, however I think you know this as this was your intent. Leaving a recorded message of this type was naive at best, foolish at worst. This notwithstanding, I am absolutely certain that you would not have left this type of message if you had been made aware that members of the SFA Board where already aware of our communications. If you where to reflect upon this matter I am confident after listening to your own message you would have taken both a different tone and approach.

In relation to the substantive matter Mr Fleming's comments on the refereeing on Sunday at the Hibernian Versus Hearts game. Mr Fleming acknowledged an error, however this was not an apology in any shape or form. Human error in all things is to be expected but when there is no contrition or apology it appears as stupidity, folly and arrogance. The minimum the supporters, the players and the club deserve is a clear, transparent and unequivocal apology.

Sadly, the SFA has a long standing historical reputation for institutional arrogance and a staggering inability to apologise when it makes a mistake or causes offence. I hope that you on a personal level have not been infected by this condition. I know of no known cure for that type of malaise.

Please let me know of your availability to discuss these matter verbally. I await your reply with interest.




Good response. Can you upload the phone message or write a transcript of what he said?

[McIntosh]

Good response. Can you upload the phone message or write a transcript of what he said?

Will prepare a transcript - a truly remarkable message. I have cc Stewart Regan and spoken with the Club at the very highest level.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Will prepare a transcript - a truly remarkable message. I have cc Stewart Regan and spoken with the Club at the very highest level.

Good work mate. Show the arrogance and contempt of them up.