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HIBERNIAN-0762
20-12-2012, 01:27 PM
I see their players have come out on strike due to unpaid wages, how refreshing to see a football team that have a pair unlike these bell ends in pink!

:top marks to you guys!

Mr White
20-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Bbc reported last night that wages and tax bill settled. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20793052
I take it that hasn't happened then? I worry for the pars, I wouldn't like to see them go under, got family nearby and it's a good away trip.

NORTHERNHIBBY
20-12-2012, 01:38 PM
Sad state of affairs for a team that once shelled out 750K for Istvan Kozma.

Pretty Boy
20-12-2012, 01:40 PM
Always enjoy a trip to East End Park and Dunfermilne are a 'proper' team.

Hope they get out their current mess and get rid of Yorkston as well.

Can understand the players actions and sad it might come to that.

HIBERNIAN-0762
20-12-2012, 01:40 PM
Always had a wee place in my heart for them, the first time I went to East End Park we won 6-5 after being 5-1 up!

:agree:

Mr White
20-12-2012, 01:42 PM
Its a shame. Wouldn't be surprised if more fifers head to see rangers and celtic every weekend than go to see the pars, rovers, beath and east fife combined.

Billy Whizz
20-12-2012, 01:45 PM
Where are you hearing this strike news from?

Mr White
20-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Scotsman reporting it today
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/dunfermline-players-strike-over-wage-issues-1-2701713
that article and bbc contains quote from pars that wages will be paid today.

bingo70
20-12-2012, 01:53 PM
It's a shame for them as they're a good club and its a great away day but I can't think of too many young players they've produced recently so I can't say I'm surprised.

Imo clubs like dunfermline are a big part of the problem with Scottish football, too reliant on the old firm away supports and pish tv deals rather than producing young players and selling them on at a profit then starting the cycle again.

BroxburnHibee
20-12-2012, 02:01 PM
It's a shame for them as they're a good club and its a great away day but I can't think of too many young players they've produced recently so I can't say I'm surprised.

Imo clubs like dunfermline are a big part of the problem with Scottish football, too reliant on the old firm away supports and pish tv deals rather than producing young players and selling them on at a profit then starting the cycle again.

:top marks

Been banging on about this for ages - they won't be the last club this happens to either.

Stop chasing and relying on tv deals and start paying what we can afford and invest in youth.

Scottish football is on a slippery slope to oblivion unless someone wakes up/smells the coffee/ and gets of their ***** and does something about it.

Saorsa
20-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Sad state of affairs for a team that once shelled out 750K for Istvan Kozma.Maybe that's the sort of thing that got them in tae trouble in the 1st place and then they sold him for a good bit less than they paid.

blackpoolhibs
20-12-2012, 02:06 PM
I can't feel sorry for any club that's spending more than it brings in.

Mac
20-12-2012, 02:13 PM
It is a real shame and sadly this is down to 1 or 2 individuals, Yorkston's daughter (s) is a complete idiot and totally out her depth in the job she does!!

IWasThere2016
20-12-2012, 03:30 PM
It is only a stay of execution unless they get promoted IMHO.

Hibercelona
20-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Its a shame. Wouldn't be surprised if more fifers head to see rangers and celtic every weekend than go to see the pars, rovers, beath and east fife combined.

:agree:

They'll always be a bigger/better club than those 2 arse cheeks that sadly too many idiots choose to follow instead.

I have a few good mates that have stuck with the pars through thick and thin and I would hate for their club to go under.

Hibercelona
20-12-2012, 03:36 PM
I can't feel sorry for any club that's spending more than it brings in.

Like we've currently been doing?

blackpoolhibs
20-12-2012, 04:01 PM
Like we've currently been doing?

Yip, so much so we have players on strike and cant pay the bills.

Brooster
20-12-2012, 04:04 PM
I can't feel sorry for any club that's spending more than it brings in.

Spot on mate.

.Sean.
20-12-2012, 04:07 PM
It is only a stay of execution unless they get promoted IMHO.
Wasn't there actually a suggestion they're more comfortable financially in the first?

CropleyWasGod
20-12-2012, 04:07 PM
Like we've currently been doing?

Half of our accounting loss was depreciation, which is a non-cash item.

Going forward, we have no overdraft and we operate a break-even policy.

blackpoolhibs
20-12-2012, 04:09 PM
Spot on mate.

Every club will be trying to do its best to compete, but to put the very existence of that club in jeopardy is foolish at best.

Just how far over its overdraft have they gone?

Golden Bear
20-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Over the years, we've had some outstanding trips to East End Park and it's always been one of my favourite away venues. Their fans were also pretty supportive of both teams in the big relegation decider at ER last season.


Hopefully they can themselves "sorted" ------------ but we'll make no mention of Jumbo Jim. :wink:

VickMackie
20-12-2012, 04:44 PM
I can't feel sorry for any club that's spending more than it brings in.

Including us?

yeezus.
20-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Its a shame. Wouldn't be surprised if more fifers head to see rangers and celtic every weekend than go to see the pars, rovers, beath and east fife combined.

:agree: looking at East Fife's attendance figures against Stranraer I'd say that is very likely.

18/03/07
20-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Never heard fat jim saying anything about the pars money problems,yet he was banging on about the hearts share offer and trying to encourage hearts fans to follow their team,if i was a pars fan i would not be happy with that

HIBERNIAN-0762
20-12-2012, 05:38 PM
Never heard fat jim saying anything about the pars money problems,yet he was banging on about the hearts share offer and trying to encourage hearts fans to follow their team,if i was a pars fan i would not be happy with that

I noticed this as well, what is it with the HOM07? do they have a brainwashing unit at the asbestos arena?

Ratchel as well banging on how much he "still loves" them...

Seems like not paying any wages and bonusues brings rich reward then?

******s!

Miguel
20-12-2012, 05:51 PM
[QUOTE=HIBERNIAN-0762;3450087]Always had a wee place in my heart for them, the first time I went to East End Park we won 6-5 after being 5-1 up!

Mine too. Didn't Jim Scott score a hat-trick? It was only ground where players used to come down stairs onto the pitch.
Must have been 1966-67.

blackpoolhibs
20-12-2012, 06:42 PM
Including us?

Of course, do you want to see us go the way of Leeds United and Portsmouth?

HIBERNIAN-0762
20-12-2012, 07:28 PM
[QUOTE=HIBERNIAN-0762;3450087]Always had a wee place in my heart for them, the first time I went to East End Park we won 6-5 after being 5-1 up!

Mine too. Didn't Jim Scott score a hat-trick? It was only ground where players used to come down stairs onto the pitch.
Must have been 1966-67.

Spot on mate..:agree:

Hibernia Na Eir
20-12-2012, 07:34 PM
I see their players have come out on strike due to unpaid wages, how refreshing to see a football team that have a pair unlike these bell ends in pink!

:top marks to you guys!

absolutey.

all the yams can do is appear to be united, and use it to try n win games. Whilst all the time forgetting the bigger picture. Fuds.

Scouse Hibee
20-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Maybe that's the sort of thing that got them in tae trouble in the 1st place and then they sold him for a good bit less than they paid.


Liverpool (Souness) paid about 300,000 for him which was about 250,000 less than Dunfermline bought him for.

Billy Whizz
20-12-2012, 07:57 PM
Liverpool (Souness) paid about 300,000 for him which was about 250,000 less than Dunfermline bought him for.

They also outbid Hibs for Brewster a few years ago.
I'm hearing there is major fan pressure on the Dunfermline major share holder to move out.
Hearts fans please take note

IWasThere2016
20-12-2012, 08:45 PM
Wasn't there actually a suggestion they're more comfortable financially in the first?

I was with big Leish the night after some of their Board resigned, and Jim was worried and adamant the Pars needed to get up this season.

Jonnyboy
20-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Always had a wee place in my heart for them, the first time I went to East End Park we won 6-5 after being 5-1 up!

:agree:

Those were the days!

http://www.hibs.net/content.php?201-Six-of-the-best

JohnStephens91
20-12-2012, 09:33 PM
I hope they can survive, but ultimately if you live by the sword you will die by it, I like the club and it's a good away day and it was one of my first away days that my dad took me on so it is a bit nostalgic for me.

VickMackie
20-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Of course, do you want to see us go the way of Leeds United and Portsmouth?

No.

Supporters are going to have to get used to reduced playing staff as a result but that's they way it'll need to be.

blackpoolhibs
20-12-2012, 10:43 PM
No.

Supporters are going to have to get used to reduced playing staff as a result but that's they way it'll need to be.

Thats correct.

Gala Foxes
21-12-2012, 06:24 AM
Remember when Dunfermline outbid us in terms of wages to sign Craig Brewster ?

They were getting crowds of 4k per week when we then were on 10/11k

They also signed Barry Nicholson / Stevie Crawford & others then and were paying wages way over their income levels

IWasThere2016
21-12-2012, 07:42 AM
Remember when Dunfermline outbid us in terms of wages to sign Craig Brewster ?

They were getting crowds of 4k per week when we then were on 10/11k

They also signed Barry Nicholson / Stevie Crawford & others then and were paying wages way over their income levels

Yup Tango did the same with the Sheep too.

HIBERNIAN-0762
21-12-2012, 07:54 AM
Those were the days!

http://www.hibs.net/content.php?201-Six-of-the-best

:thumbsup:

Think you must have been standing just a few feet from me Jon and here we are all those years later.....




Still suffering.....:wink:

hibsmad
21-12-2012, 09:06 AM
I see their players have come out on strike due to unpaid wages, how refreshing to see a football team that have a pair unlike these bell ends in pink!

:top marks to you guys!

The only reason we haven't seen the bell ends in pink go on strike is due to the fact that they are being paid far more than they could get elsewhere. So much more in some cases that they are happy to not only accept late payments but even voluntarily defer their wages.

The Dunfermline players I imagine would pretty much all manage to find similar contract offers at other clubs.

chrisski33
21-12-2012, 11:07 AM
According to fat jim they didnt go on strike but they were sent home early cos some looked depressed plus one player didnt have enough petrol!

surreyhibbie
21-12-2012, 11:30 AM
Hope they survive. my favourite away venue.

:agree:

AndyM_1875
21-12-2012, 12:12 PM
I hope the Pars can sort this out. I'm an Edinburgh boy who now lives in Dunfermline and it's no exaggeration to say that the town needs its Football Team and needs it badly.
The Pars play Raith the day before the Derby so I'll get to two games in two days.

Dunfermline has always been a good away venue for us Hibees and I don't mind the Pars Fans, at least they support their local side unlike those Fife born twats who wander around in Old Firm shirts and profess their love for all things in Weegiestan.

AndyM_1875
21-12-2012, 12:14 PM
I hope the Pars can sort this out. I'm an Edinburgh boy who now lives in Dunfermline and it's no exaggeration to say that the town needs its Football Team and needs it badly.
The Pars play Raith the day before the Derby so I'll get to two games in two days.

Dunfermline has always been a good away venue for us Hibees and I don't mind the Pars Fans, at least they support their local side unlike those Fife born twats who wander around in Old Firm shirts, spout the cliched bigotry that goes with it and profess their love for all things Weegiestan.

Pete
21-12-2012, 02:22 PM
I stay in the town and it would be sad if they ceased to exist.
However, they've been overspending and stretching themselves so deserve a period of correction and all that entails.
They've been rubbing raith rovers fans noses in it for years giving it all the "wee team big team" at every opportunity. they've lorded it over them on the pitch because they haven't been as careful as their neighbours.
Sound familiar?
I wonder how everyones sympathy for the pars is going down in Kirkcaldy.

DaveF
22-02-2013, 07:35 PM
I see that Dunfermline players have lodged a formal complaint with the SFL over unpaid wages and bonuses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21551867

It's OK, as the director sys the club is "debt free" and it's a short term cash flow issue.

There has been rumours for a while about them being in the crap - I wonder just how bad it really is?

DaveF
22-02-2013, 07:39 PM
Masterton explains the debt a bit more in this article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21536569

The figure he gives for St J (1m) compared to Dunfermline in SFL1 (£15k) is amazing if true!

Green Fish
22-02-2013, 09:29 PM
DAFC a shambles, staff at academy o been paid for ages. If share scheme flops then game over but talk of folk waiting in the wings

PatHead
05-03-2013, 06:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21673647

Things looking really grim for them. Bit of a Hearts rallying call from November about this.

lucky
11-03-2013, 08:27 PM
Raith offered the Pars a share of the gate money in Saturdays derby. The Pars will get the gate money of every away fan they bring above 2000. Could you imagine us helping the yams

Gus Fring
11-03-2013, 08:33 PM
That's a pretty classy move from Raith :applause:

Sect43
11-03-2013, 08:34 PM
Class IMO. Should result in a massive away support.

7062
11-03-2013, 08:38 PM
Clever bit of marketing IMO, but I might just be being cynical. Wonder if Raith will end up with more money even once the cut is paid to Dunf due to a larger crowd?

Phil D. Rolls
11-03-2013, 08:39 PM
After Dunfermline started calling them the "wee team". Not bad as I doubt Pars would normally take 2000 to Starks.

PopsicleManTony
11-03-2013, 08:42 PM
Well done from raith, take my hat off to them!

Bostonhibby
11-03-2013, 08:44 PM
Raith offered the Pars a share of the gate money in Saturdays derby. The Pars will get the gate money of every away fan they bring above 2000. Could you imagine us helping the yams

Well done Raith,I really do applaud that. On your second point, I never thought I would ever be prepared to do anything to help the yam but this outbreak of goodwill has inspired me. I am going to write to one of the many foundations, splinter groups, Klan Chapters, grooming networks all vying for control at tiny and offer them some of all this extra snow I have in my garden, they have to collect it but it will be worth it, just like the share offer, its an unlimited supply but its free.

There might well be some special green snow too.

poolman
11-03-2013, 08:54 PM
Well done Raith :agree:

As for that other lot I wouldny give them the steam of ma toly

Biggie
11-03-2013, 09:04 PM
Well done Raith :agree:

As for that other lot I wouldny give them the steam of ma toly

This.

Although must say would be really disappointed to see the pars go down the tubes...always had a soft spot for them as its a great wee away trip..

heidtheba
11-03-2013, 09:11 PM
Well done Raith,I really do applaud that. On your second point, I never thought I would ever be prepared to do anything to help the yam but this outbreak of goodwill has inspired me. I am going to write to one of the many foundations, splinter groups, Klan Chapters, grooming networks all vying for control at tiny and offer them some of all this extra snow I have in my garden, they have to collect it but it will be worth it, just like the share offer, its an unlimited supply but its free.

There might well be some special green snow too.


How about some 'away strip' yellow...:greengrin

Hibercelona
11-03-2013, 09:13 PM
Dunfermline are a great club with very pleasant supporters. Hearts are an awful club with very unpleasant supporters.

If they showed half as much class, i'm sure other clubs would be happy to help them out. As it is though, they have no class whatsoever and nobody will shed a tear when they die.

hibs4thecup1988
11-03-2013, 09:16 PM
As someone else has said...how many would the pars usually take to Raith? Maybe 1k? Therefore they will make a few grand out of it too...

Still a good gesture though

snooky
11-03-2013, 09:23 PM
Some re-runs of the 50's show "Hey Jeanie" in the States might stir up interest over there especially as she (Jeanie Carson aka Jeanie MacLennan) frequently said on the show "I'm from Dunfermline" and, IIRC, once kicked off a cup game at East End Park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq7XdOR3PII

heretoday
11-03-2013, 09:26 PM
That's quite a gesture. There's no love lost between the two sets of fans.

Biggie
11-03-2013, 09:39 PM
Could also be a fair bit of "there but the grace of god..."...and a fair number of teams are realising they need to help each other out or there could be trouble ahead.

ScottB
11-03-2013, 10:25 PM
It just so happens that the high profile collapses have been probably the 2 most disliked clubs outwith their own supports, if it was say, ICT or St Johnstone struggling then you might well see other fans, clubs etc rallying round to offer support.

Hearts and Rangers brought their messes on themselves, hell mend them.

ALF TUPPER
11-03-2013, 10:35 PM
Mentioned on the news that Man Utd have contacted them asking if they can help somehow ?
Wow ! :agree:

Eyrie
11-03-2013, 10:40 PM
Mentioned on the news that Man Utd have contacted them asking if they can help somehow ?
Wow ! :agree:

Alex Ferguson had his best spell as a player at East End Park.

Jonnyboy
11-03-2013, 10:41 PM
Alex Ferguson had his best spell as a player at East End Park.

:agree:

Edit: Just remembered that Fergie also played for Rangers but I don't recall any offers of help when der hun went t!ts up :greengrin

Hibercelona
11-03-2013, 10:42 PM
Mentioned on the news that Man Utd have contacted them asking if they can help somehow ?
Wow ! :agree:

A few million ought to do it. :greengrin

Or let them loan Van Pesie out until the end of the season.

suavegav
11-03-2013, 10:49 PM
Can't hibs do something to help. By helping, Hibs could make a statement that we care about Scottish football as a whole and not just ourselves, like The gers and Hertz. C'mon hibs.

:flag::agree:

Scottie
11-03-2013, 10:49 PM
A few million ought to do it. :greengrin

Or let them loan Van Pesie out until the end of the season.

The problem is FAT JIM would stick him in goal :greengrin Quality manager :jamboak:

madabouthibs
11-03-2013, 11:22 PM
I suppose it would be too much to ask the local football fans to cease jumping on coaches to Ibrox and Parkhead every weekend......... :confused:

Jones28
12-03-2013, 01:27 AM
Sadly I think this will be the first of many clubs gettin into really serious money issues, especially in the first division

givescotlandfreedom
12-03-2013, 01:28 AM
I hope as a tribute both clubs decide to give nothing to Hearts.

IWasThere2016
12-03-2013, 07:08 AM
I hope as a tribute both clubs decide to give nothing to Hearts.

Miserable git! I'll double yer offer!

lucky
12-03-2013, 07:20 AM
I suppose it would be too much to ask the local football fans to cease jumping on coaches to Ibrox and Parkhead every weekend......... :confused:

What about the fans that come through to watch Hibs? Every person has the right to choose who they want to watch. I now live in West Lothian but have no affiliation to Livingston. So jump in my car to watch Hibs. Never got this you must support your local team. Did you see the Shetland Hibs fans on soccer AM ?

NORTHERNHIBBY
12-03-2013, 07:46 AM
Dunfermline have a decent squad in terms of the First Division and s decent manager would have them further up the league. Jumbo should be on performance related pay and would then be due the club money,

The Falcon
12-03-2013, 07:59 AM
:agree:

Edit: Just remembered that Fergie also played for Rangers but I don't recall any offers of help when der hun went t!ts up :greengrin


There was a clandestine offer but when the ManU bus rolled up they wouldnt let Fergie's wife in. :wink:

legends of 73
12-03-2013, 08:05 AM
Seeing we're idle that weekend who's up for heading over and helping a club in dire need, also to give Ian Murray a bit of support.

Dunfermline was always a fixture I looked out for as it was a great away day and would be sorry to see them go to the wall. I don't know the ins and out of their problems but surely they deserve a bit of help unlike those horrible cants fae gorgie.

killie-hibby
12-03-2013, 08:10 AM
What about the fans that come through to watch Hibs? Every person has the right to choose who they want to watch. I now live in West Lothian but have no affiliation to Livingston. So jump in my car to watch Hibs. Never got this you must support your local team. Did you see the Shetland Hibs fans on soccer AM ?


If you originate from Edinburgh,or in my case Musselburgh its OK to continue supporting Hibs. I think the poster is referring to people who have never lived in Glasgow but for some reason ,usually bigotry, will ignore their local team and become Bigot Twins glory hunters.

SMAXXA
12-03-2013, 08:20 AM
I think this is cracking idea and would be a brilliant touch should a decent amount of Hibees did this. Totally agree its one of those great wee days out going over the bridge to EEP, would be very sad indeed if they were to go to the wall.

Would be great PR for us as a club aswell, not that that should be the driver for this.

cocopops1875
12-03-2013, 08:38 AM
I think this is cracking idea and would be a brilliant touch should a decent amount of Hibees did this. Totally agree its one of those great wee days out going over the bridge to EEP, would be very sad indeed if they were to go to the wall.

Would be great PR for us as a club aswell, not that that should be the driver for this.
I agree it's a great idea, I also love an away day to EEP but I certainly don't think it could be seen as good PR given our ambivalence to hearts situation

Col2
12-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Great idea. Needs a bit of publicity.

Billy Whizz
12-03-2013, 08:42 AM
I agree it's a great idea, I also love an away day to EEP but I certainly don't think it could be seen as good PR given our ambivalence to hearts situation

I think it would be great PR. Hearts don't need us as they sell out most weeks. Dunfermline certainly do financially, and Dumbarton and Murray would welcome the support!
Suggest if your doing something in mass, you contact Dunfermline in case they don't open the stand behind the goals, will also help Stephens in stocking plenty Bridies!

LioNeilMessi
12-03-2013, 08:46 AM
From Fife and usually went to Dundee/united or Dunfermline away matches growing up -Dunfermline was always the best for atmosphere IMHO. Be a shame to see them go under. Would go along to this. :agree:

DarrenSQH
12-03-2013, 09:12 AM
They definitely need all the help they can get.

Although a lots of hearts connections in the pars squad, Craig Dargo and Chris Kane are both good Hibees.

cocopops1875
12-03-2013, 09:15 AM
I think it would be great PR. Hearts don't need us as they sell out most weeks. Dunfermline certainly do financially, and Dumbarton and Murray would welcome the support!
Suggest if your doing something in mass, you contact Dunfermline in case they don't open the stand behind the goals, will also help Stephens in stocking plenty Bridies!
Have they sold out any week other than against us and maybe Celtic ?

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 09:21 AM
I will give this one a miss, i'm saving up for Kevin Thomsons testimonial.

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 09:21 AM
Sorry Ian I will give this one a miss, i'm saving up for Kevin Thomsons testimonial.

Cabbage East
12-03-2013, 09:36 AM
Hearts don't need us as they sell out most weeks. !

:faf:

suavegav
12-03-2013, 09:52 AM
Great idea. I'll be there. I moved to Dunfermline 6 years ago, I know how much the club means to the Pars fans. Fantastic gesture by hibs supporters.

NOLA
12-03-2013, 10:18 AM
Love a wee day oot @ dunfermline, great idea

Bill Milne
12-03-2013, 10:21 AM
Given this is a World Cup weekend, no fans of SPL teams will be doing anything on that Saturday. Perhaps a campaign via the media is in order here to maximise the crowd and give the Pars a major boost!!

Finbar
12-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Surely Hibs could offer to play them in a friendly to help raise some cash.

Bleeds green
12-03-2013, 10:41 AM
Cracking idea if be up for this need to get spreading the word social media sites etc

AndyM_1875
12-03-2013, 10:44 AM
A great idea.

Dunfermline are one of Scotlands fine old clubs and deserve help.

Brooster
12-03-2013, 10:59 AM
Dunfermline can stew in thier own juices as far as im concerned. They've overspent for years and failed to pay bills at a time when we've ran a tight ship.

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-03-2013, 11:01 AM
I'm organising a bakery sale that day for our city neighbours!

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Dunfermline can stew in thier own juices as far as im concerned. They've overspent for years and failed to pay bills at a time when we've ran a tight ship.

:agree: There are a few folk here with very short memorys. Just like the dingles on the other side of town they will have to learn a very expensive lesson.

silverhibee
12-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Surely Hibs could offer to play them in a friendly to help raise some cash.


Man Utd have offered to play them in a pre-season game.

givescotlandfreedom
12-03-2013, 12:03 PM
:agree: There are a few folk here with very short memorys. Just like the dingles on the other side of town they will have to learn a very expensive lesson.

I wonder if they could afford the team that put us out the Scottish Cup semi (with more than a little help from Craig Thomson)?

Phil D. Rolls
12-03-2013, 12:04 PM
:agree: There are a few folk here with very short memorys. Just like the dingles on the other side of town they will have to learn a very expensive lesson.

Nothing against the Pars, in fact when I worked near their ground, I developed a soft spot for them. However, let nature take its course - they were one of the clubs that tried to live outwith their means. It's not like they weren't warned.

Andy74
12-03-2013, 12:07 PM
Why didn't Dunfermline just pay wages that matched their income?

Hibs badly need our cash. Skip this game and send the cash in to Hibs.

the_ginger_hibee
12-03-2013, 12:08 PM
:agree: There are a few folk here with very short memorys. Just like the dingles on the other side of town they will have to learn a very expensive lesson.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_cups/6584541.stm

The above make it hard to sympathise - beaten by a squad they obviously couldn't afford.

We've received criticism in the past for cutting our cloth but now the tables have turned we should all 'muck in'. No chance. (Personal opinion, don't want to detract from efforts of others if they feel strongly enough)

CropleyWasGod
12-03-2013, 12:12 PM
I am struggling with this.

Whilst it's sad to see the Pars in a difficult situation, I don't see much of a difference between them and the Hearts. Both have overspent in recent years, and are reaping the rewards.

If we are going to go down the road of "helping", then surely we would be better off helping Hearts. After all, they are more important to us financially than Dunfermline.

Mikey
12-03-2013, 12:13 PM
I'd rather give 20 quid to Hibs!

Beefster
12-03-2013, 12:17 PM
Why didn't Dunfermline just pay wages that matched their income?

Hibs badly need our cash. Skip this game and send the cash in to Hibs.

That was my first thought too.

marinello59
12-03-2013, 12:17 PM
A great idea.

Dunfermline are one of Scotlands fine old clubs and deserve help.

They overspent on players they simply could not afford. Aren't we bothered about sporting integrity anymore?:devil:

Carheenlea
12-03-2013, 12:25 PM
I'd rather more people came to watch Hibs to be fair. A big travelling crowd on Friday night giving us backing in an attempt to make the top 6 is a far more important matter to me than one of the many clubs living outwith their means now looking to be bailed out.

YehButNoBut
12-03-2013, 12:36 PM
Man Utd have offered to play them in a pre-season game.

Fergie has agreed to help out his old club who face a £134k tax bill.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/man-united-and-dunfermline-plan-summer-friendly-1-2831293

SIR Alex Ferguson has agreed to help out former club Dunfermline by taking his Manchester United side to Fife for a glamour pre-season friendly – should the Pars successfully fend off critical financial problems.
Roy Barry, captain of the club’s 1968 Scottish Cup winning side, last night told supporters at a meeting in the town’s Carnegie Hall that he asked Ferguson for assistance during a recent trip to catch-up with his former Dunfermline team-mate. Following debilitating wages issues that have affected players and staff since last October, Dunfermline’s plight has reached crisis-point with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Custom’s initiating winding-up proceedings over an unpaid £134,000 bill.

Ferguson has a great affection for Dunfermline after revealing in 2007 – when he was inducted into the club’s hall of fame – that his three years at East End Park from 1964 were the most enjoyable during his playing career. Barry, speaking in front of an estimated 2,000 fans who packed into the venue to hear club legend Jim Leishman discuss the club’s future, said: “I went down a few weeks ago to see Man United and Everton play and I finished up getting quite drunk with Sir Alex.

“We were having a chat about the problems up here, and I said ‘what can you do to help us’? “He said, ‘I tell you what I will do, I will send a team up and that will raise a few quid’.” Leishman was joined on stage by Stephen Taylor – an accountant who is part of the Steering Group that was set up last week after owner Gavin Masterton announced he would step down from the board, and Bob Garmory of main sponsors Purvis. Garmory appealed for calm from fans after revealing a member of Masterton’s family had recently been physically attacked. Taylor last night said fresh talks with Masterton have given him hope the club can survive.

Taylor said: “We do have a desperate situation, HMRC are breathing down are necks just now. The proposal put to Gavin on Friday was largely based on TPC group, which would move us towards 50 per cent being owned by fans and the other 50 per cent being owed by other key people. “It was no surprise that was rejected on Friday. This morning I spoke to Gavin and he was quite down about the situation and struggling to find away forward, and was mentioning the L (liquidation) word.

“I was then quite surprised to get an e-mail from Gavin to invite myself, Bob and Jim along to meeting to get a counter-proposal. I was hugely encouraged in that, there is a recognition from Gavin that he has to substantially reduce his share holding and I think that’s a common theme from supporters. “Getting the counter-proposals was a huge step forward and hopefully in the next few days we will have more definitive news as to where we’re going.” Leishman added: “A proposal went in and it was rejected, a counter-proposal went in and it was rejected. They are away now trying to get a solution.

“We’ve not much time so the talking has to be done really quickly.”

Pretty Boy
12-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Why didn't Dunfermline just pay wages that matched their income?

Hibs badly need our cash. Skip this game and send the cash in to Hibs.

This.

Feel for the fans but you reap what you sow.

21.05.2016
12-03-2013, 12:48 PM
Great gesture to try help a struggling club like Dunfermline and I certainly don't have anything against Dunfermline and I would be sad to see them go under, however, they have to accept the consequences of living beyond their means just like the mob from Gorgie have too. Rules are rules i'm afraid and it's not fair on the clubs, like ourselves who play by the rules and have to work with a tight budget we can afford.

Give the money to hibs and try make Pat's player budget as big as possible.

DH1875
12-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Man Utd have offered to play them in a pre-season game.

Will they last that long though?



Why didn't Dunfermline just pay wages that matched their income?

Hibs badly need our cash. Skip this game and send the cash in to Hibs.

Or head to Motherwell on Friday night and support the team. To much cash flowing about these days if you lot can afford to hit 2 away games in the space of a day :cb.

Judas Iscariot
12-03-2013, 03:12 PM
Out of the folk contemplating going to EEP on Saturday, I take it you are all going to Fir Park on Friday too?!

AndyM_1875
12-03-2013, 03:24 PM
:agree:

Edit: Just remembered that Fergie also played for Rangers but I don't recall any offers of help when der hun went t!ts up :greengrin

Fergie explains pretty clearly in his autobiography 'managing My Life' how he has little time for Rangers after the shameful way he was ostracised at Rangers partly because of the Berwick disaster and partly on the instruction of Directors who disapproved of his wife's religion.
He really has little time for Rangers.

Back on topic - Classy from Raith.

Pete
12-03-2013, 03:48 PM
After Dunfermline started calling them the "wee team". Not bad as I doubt Pars would normally take 2000 to Starks.

Raith will be the winners here. Clever move.

someone else was saying that pars fans are great people etc...but not even you talk to them about raith. It's "wee team big team" and "always in our shadow" almost immediately. Sound familiar?

Just like hearts, they have purchased this status and these bragging rights and are expecting everyone to feel sorry for them when people have the cheek to eventually want money off them.

Make no mistake, raith fans want them dead and buried. I wouldn't lose any sleep either and certainly don't feel sorry for them. If anyone is wanting to help clubs it should be ones like hibs and raith who have done things the right way.

TamHibs
12-03-2013, 03:50 PM
Out of the folk contemplating going to EEP on Saturday, I take it you are all going to Fir Park on Friday too?!

Why would they go to Fir Park on the 22nd?

Pete
12-03-2013, 04:03 PM
Dunfermline can stew in thier own juices as far as im concerned. They've overspent for years and failed to pay bills at a time when we've ran a tight ship.

Totally.

I have some hefty credit card bills due for payment soon. Anyone fancy helping me out?

dangermouse
12-03-2013, 04:11 PM
Totally.

I have some hefty credit card bills due for payment soon. Anyone fancy helping me out?

Have you been in touch with Sir Alex? He may be able to help :greengrin My spare cash is going on a trip to Motherwell on Friday.

Hibby70
12-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Don't see the problem here, there's no Hibs game that weekend and the spend your money on Hibs instead is stupid. You could apply that to anything , beer , fags , cinema....

marinello59
12-03-2013, 04:35 PM
Don't see the problem here, there's no Hibs game that weekend and the spend your money on Hibs instead is stupid. You could apply that to anything , beer , fags , cinema....

But they spent money they didn't have to gain a sporting advantage. Like Hearts. And Rangers. Was the sporting integrity thing a passing craze then? :devil:

DH1875
12-03-2013, 04:38 PM
It's not exactly charitable. There getting the cash from 2k paying punters that I doubt they'd usually get and if any more turn up they cash in with pies etc...


If you originate from Edinburgh,or in my case Musselburgh its OK to continue supporting Hibs. I think the poster is referring to people who have never lived in Glasgow but for some reason ,usually bigotry, will ignore their local team and become Bigot Twins glory hunters.

We have loads of fans who don't come from Edinburgh. Supported Hibs for 20+ years and have never lived there.

Hibby70
12-03-2013, 04:39 PM
But they spent money they didn't have to gain a sporting advantage. Like Hearts. And Rangers. Was the sporting integrity thing a passing craze then? :devil:

Agree but it would annoy Hearts if there was a SPL wide attempt to help Dunfermline and not them.

Anyway I like a wee trip to Dunfermline.

Should we be boycotting Tynecastle then?

hfc rd
12-03-2013, 04:43 PM
Very nice to hear that.

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 04:44 PM
Agree but it would annoy Hearts if there was a SPL wide attempt to help Dunfermline and not them.

Anyway I like a wee trip to Dunfermline.

Should we be boycotting Tynecastle then?

Unless Hibs are playing there, then yes. As others have said, they were not complaining when they were winning against us while massively overspending?

They can go and kiss my big fat erse, just like the ex huns and the ****s if they think i'd give them a penny unless we were playing them.

DH1875
12-03-2013, 04:48 PM
Agree but it would annoy Hearts if there was a SPL wide attempt to help Dunfermline and not them.

Anyway I like a wee trip to Dunfermline.

Should we be boycotting Tynecastle then?


Erm......If we're NO playing then the answer to that has to be a big fat YES :confused:.

Hibeesforever
12-03-2013, 05:40 PM
Dunfermline can stew in thier own juices as far as im concerned. They've overspent for years and failed to pay bills at a time when we've ran a tight ship.

I don't think that is really correct. More like they are crippled with an SPL and Govt stadium imposed debt and had factored in higher crowds from better SFA marketing of the Scottish game.
Great ccommunity club, it would be a fantastic gesture by a Hibs fan to attend the match.
The next decade in Scottish football is going to be all about fan power and influence. Great idea, again Hibernian lead the way.

Hibeesforever
12-03-2013, 05:41 PM
Out of the folk contemplating going to EEP on Saturday, I take it you are all going to Fir Park on Friday too?!

Yes

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 05:41 PM
I don't think that is really correct. More like they are crippled with an SPL and Govt stadium imposed debt and had factored in higher crowds from better SFA marketing of the Scottish game.
Great ccommunity club, it would be a fantastic gesture by a Hibs fan to attend the match.
The next decade in Scottish football is going to be all about fan power and influence. Great idea, again Hibernian lead the way.

Craig Brewster.

Pete
12-03-2013, 05:45 PM
I don't think that is really correct. More like they are crippled with an SPL and Govt stadium imposed debt and had factored in higher crowds from better SFA marketing of the Scottish game.
Great ccommunity club, it would be a fantastic gesture by a Hibs fan to attend the match.
The next decade in Scottish football is going to be all about fan power and influence. Great idea, again Hibernian lead the way.

Others managed to build compliant grounds without getting into a state like that.

Absolutey ridiculous that any hibs fan would help them. I thought integrity was beyond purchase... Or is that just for clubs we don't like?

Phil D. Rolls
12-03-2013, 06:04 PM
Craig Brewster.

No better example than that. It really stuck in the craw at the time.

PJ IronHIbee
12-03-2013, 06:20 PM
I for one will be going along. Have a soft spot for the Pars. Shame they have changed their catering suppliers - the steak bridies were worth the visit alone. You may also be surprised with the entertainment in show.

Hibeesforever
12-03-2013, 06:23 PM
Others managed to build compliant grounds without getting into a state like that.

Absolutey ridiculous that any hibs fan would help them. I thought integrity was beyond purchase... Or is that just for clubs we don't like?

Fair point but until we introduce proper salary caps and enforce the rules on producing accurate financial statements, fans will have to run with the current Scottish model.
Dunfermline supporters might disagree but their Chairman's antics have been very different to Hearts.
In Hearts case, you could also argue their debt was originally stadium related ? But what has happened since, looks like out right fraud.
To answer your question, I would only help Hearts by going to their derby, no more no less.
Re: Dunfermline, Alex Edwards and the ex Hibs manager, Jock Stein managed them, so it would be a shame if they became a Sevco.

Brooster
12-03-2013, 07:05 PM
I don't think that is really correct. More like they are crippled with an SPL and Govt stadium imposed debt and had factored in higher crowds from better SFA marketing of the Scottish game.
Great ccommunity club, it would be a fantastic gesture by a Hibs fan to attend the match.
The next decade in Scottish football is going to be all about fan power and influence. Great idea, again Hibernian lead the way.


So dunfermline have not been overspending and they've paid all thier bills on time? Is that what you're saying?

Hibernia Na Eir
12-03-2013, 07:10 PM
Seeing we're idle that weekend who's up for heading over and helping a club in dire need, also to give Ian Murray a bit of support.

Dunfermline was always a fixture I looked out for as it was a great away day and would be sorry to see them go to the wall. I don't know the ins and out of their problems but surely they deserve a bit of help unlike those horrible cants fae gorgie.

dunfermline? nah, yer alright thanks.

Frazerbob
12-03-2013, 07:11 PM
Regardless of how it happened, the real fans of DAFC are on the verge of loosing their club, through no fault of their own. That's a crying shame, especially as so many of their neighbours decide to follow the Old Firm and to a lesser extent, Hibs and Hearts. I used to work in Dunfermline and the number of Rangers fans in particular is stunning.

I've had a soft spot for them ever since October 27th 1991 and love away days to EEP. Really hope they pull through.

legends of 73
12-03-2013, 07:24 PM
For those who can't or didn't read date of the game we are not playing that weekend because of the international break and if hibs were playing I'd be at the hibs game.


Think I do my fair share of putting money into hibs season ticket,hibs lottery,hibs kids membership merchandise from the shop just like lots if other hibs fans is there anything else I can do to give the club more money because I would if I could

Sir David Gray
12-03-2013, 08:13 PM
Apart from Hearts and Rangers (and Celtic, too, if they ever suffer financially) fans, I feel for any supporter that is faced with losing their club.

I hope the Dunfermline fans manage to save their club but at the end of the day, they've spent beyond their means for years and are obviously now facing the consequences.

Maybe clubs like Dunfermline will start to realise that you can only spend what you can afford.

If people want to go to this game then that's entirely their choice, no-one can stop them. However I think I'll be giving it a miss.

007 Mickey Weir
12-03-2013, 08:22 PM
I do like the Pars and would hate to see them go. They are nothing like Hearts. Ok maybe they made some mistakes. But sounds like some stupid bad decisions by the directors.

If Hibs have no game and people can get along I think that is a great idea.

I actually like how Talksport promote Premier League fans to go to lower league games on International weekends to support football in general.

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-03-2013, 08:22 PM
It all stinks a bit of double standards, how about running a bus to support Hearts on Sunday? ;-)

mca
12-03-2013, 08:36 PM
Dunfy have been around for 120 something years - and they have history..

They supporters who have been the lifeblood of this team for so long - will need to rally again..

It just seems with all the owner stuff ( which i know sfa about) - Some fans dont want to... !!!

whilst i never went indepth conversation with my dunfy supporter pal - he says - he would rather naebody turned up ????

Jonnyboy
12-03-2013, 08:42 PM
Didn't we spend money we really didn't have to get out of the first division at the first time of asking?

I think if folk want to go to that game to show solidarity with fellow football fans then it is their choice to do so. Those who don't, won't.

Sir David Gray
12-03-2013, 09:12 PM
Raith offered the Pars a share of the gate money in Saturdays derby. The Pars will get the gate money of every away fan they bring above 2000. Could you imagine us helping the yams

I'll happily help them with the funeral arrangements. :agree:

Hibernia Na Eir
12-03-2013, 09:50 PM
Hibs could do with our own fans' money, not Yorkston's mess of a club.

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 09:51 PM
Didn't we spend money we really didn't have to get out of the first division at the first time of asking?

I think if folk want to go to that game to show solidarity with fellow football fans then it is their choice to do so. Those who don't, won't.

We did John, and paid the consequences. Thats why i have little sympathy for them.

Jonnyboy
12-03-2013, 09:54 PM
We did John, and paid the consequences. Thats why i have little sympathy for them.

And now they are paying the consequences. Difference is they don't have Rod Petrie :wink: :greengrin

On a more serious note the reason I highlighted us having done it was all of the posts on this thread indignantly criticising the Pars, as if we had never done such a shameful thing

weecounty hibby
12-03-2013, 09:56 PM
No way will they get 2k+ as an away support. The week it was announced about their plight they only got 2.5k at home v plastic whistle and i'd bet that thistle brought about 1k. Cant help those who wont help themselves. I bet that on that day more folk left dunfy to watch the OF that turned up at east end

PatHead
12-03-2013, 09:57 PM
Was Stevie Crawford not another one they gave higher wages than we could afford? Also they don't seem to develop young players so even if I could make it, which I can't, no thanks.

On top of that they had an unfair advantage for years with the plastic pitch. Should have saved their money when they had it. Finally Gavin Masterton was one of the most culpable in the break up of the BoS. I once heard him refer to branches as retail units which showed the culture he developed.

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 09:59 PM
And now they are paying the consequences. Difference is they don't have Rod Petrie :wink: :greengrin

On a more serious note the reason I highlighted us having done it was all of the posts on this thread indignantly criticising the Pars, as if we had never done such a shameful thing

Its the fans who always end up feeling the pain, although you never hear them complaining when they are doing the overspending? :greengrin

weecounty hibby
12-03-2013, 10:20 PM
Its the fans who always end up feeling the pain, although you never hear them complaining when they are doing the overspending? :greengrin

They also dont seem to be in any hurry to help. As i said in the other thread they only managed about 1500 home fans last week. Just like the jambos it should be up to them to sort it out and not every one else. Through our history we have been in the **** quite a few times. Who sorted it out? Hibs and Hibs fans, no one helped us out at any time when we were down we battled back on our own

blackpoolhibs
12-03-2013, 10:22 PM
They also dont seem to be in any hurry to help. As i said in the other thread they only managed about 1500 home fans last week. Just like the jambos it should be up to them to sort it out and not every one else. Through our history we have been in the **** quite a few times. Who sorted it out? Hibs and Hibs fans, no one helped us out at any time when we were down we battled back on our own

:agree:

Bishop Hibee
12-03-2013, 10:48 PM
The way Scottish football's going it'll be Hibs v Hibs reserves 38 times a season soon. Petrie's masterplan :dunno::greengrin

Sir David Gray
12-03-2013, 10:57 PM
The way Scottish football's going it'll be Hibs v Hibs reserves 38 times a season soon. Petrie's masterplan :dunno::greengrin

Even then, I'm sure we'll find a way of not winning the Scottish Cup! :greengrin

Reverend Green
13-03-2013, 12:06 AM
Mentioned on the news that Man Utd have contacted them asking if they can help somehow ?
Wow ! :agree:


Offered them a friendly apparently, would best off be played at a bigger stadium I reckon. Most likely Murrayfield, ER perhaps? Source below.

http://goo.gl/o0kcW

CentreLine
13-03-2013, 05:25 AM
Raith offered the Pars a share of the gate money in Saturdays derby. The Pars will get the gate money of every away fan they bring above 2000. Could you imagine us helping the yams

We should be offering a similar gesture to hahahahearts. It's what genuine big clubs do and there is a history of it here in Edinburgh by us towards hahahahearts. I don't think it has happened in reverse but I may be wrong.
We need to get over the hatred thing and remember the value of our rivalry.

Well done Raith

lapsedhibee
13-03-2013, 07:25 AM
Mentioned on the news that Man Utd have contacted them asking if they can help somehow ?
Wow ! :agree:

Ex hibby to the rescue:

"The offer from the Manchester United boss came about when Roy Barry, who played for the Pars at the same time as Ferguson, was at Old Trafford recently for a match and Ferguson suggested staging a friendly game at East End Park to help his former club"

Keith_M
13-03-2013, 08:58 AM
I heard that Celtc were approached to play a friendly as a benefit game but they said they only do that for struggling Irish clubs...........













[Before anyone takes that seriously, it's called sarcasm]

NW
13-03-2013, 09:19 AM
or maybe Raith could just offer to set up a committee to for a Fife club. If only 2k pars fans can be bothered to turn up for the last home game, there is clearly no appetite for a sustainable full time team in the town.

Time for people and football to get real, Scotland cannot sustain 40 league clubs. England struggle with 92 and have 10 times the population. Fife and the Falkirk area have too many teams.

bigwheel
13-03-2013, 09:35 AM
I think it's a superb gesture from Raith ...yes, Dunfermline fans need to act , but how refreshing is it to see sporting rivalry put to one side and the hand of support offered in a time of need ...fantastic to see

blackpoolhibs
13-03-2013, 09:38 AM
or maybe Raith could just offer to set up a committee to for a Fife club. If only 2k pars fans can be bothered to turn up for the last home game, there is clearly no appetite for a sustainable full time team in the town.

Time for people and football to get real, Scotland cannot sustain 40 league clubs. England struggle with 92 and have 10 times the population. Fife and the Falkirk area have too many teams.

I think this is the truth, and major restructuring of the whole of Scottish football needs done. Regional football, from the 2nd division down. A pyramid set up with the Highland league and the Junior leagues would also be a good start, play off in every division and much more, but turkeys dont vote for xmas, so we will see more of the same until teams die, and fans drift away even more.

bigwheel
13-03-2013, 09:39 AM
or maybe Raith could just offer to set up a committee to for a Fife club. If only 2k pars fans can be bothered to turn up for the last home game, there is clearly no appetite for a sustainable full time team in the town.

Time for people and football to get real, Scotland cannot sustain 40 league clubs. England struggle with 92 and have 10 times the population. Fife and the Falkirk area have too many teams.
I think Mercer had the same views as you... I'm not a believer in this amalgamation view...all clubs have their heritage and their community history . They will be every bit as important to those who care about them as Hibs are to us. Who are we to say some shouldn't exist any more ... My belief is that clubs simply have to live within their means and as a result they will find their rightful level in the game...

Keith_M
13-03-2013, 09:39 AM
.... If only 2k pars fans can be bothered to turn up for the last home game, there is clearly no appetite for a sustainable full time team in the town.


Does this same logic apply to Hibs?


Edinburgh has a population almost exactly ten times that of Dunfermline but with two senior clubs. So, by your logic, if either club can only get 10,000 people bothering to turn up to watch them, they don't deserve a senior club

NW
13-03-2013, 10:06 AM
Does this same logic apply to Hibs?


Edinburgh has a population almost exactly ten times that of Dunfermline but with two senior clubs. So, by your logic, if either club can only get 10,000 people bothering to turn up to watch them, they don't deserve a senior club

Yes it applies to all teams and cities. If the team is no self sustaining and the local community show no sign or appetite to keep it going then there can only eventually be one outcome. Football clubs have bills to pay like all businesses and households and we all need to cut our cloth accordingly.
History or heritage is very important, it doesnt pay the bills or bring more people in through the gates.
Dunfermline cant afford to run a stadium such as that and have the staff they do, if their own supporters wont help them then they are doomed. RR giving them a few £k is just delaying it.

Hearts are a similar point, they cannot sustain their model.
If Hibs keep going in the same vein of losses they too will become unsustainable unless they can increase crowds and revenue. Thats life. Its Fact and scotland is living in the dark ages football wise.

NW
13-03-2013, 10:11 AM
Does this same logic apply to Hibs?


Edinburgh has a population almost exactly ten times that of Dunfermline but with two senior clubs. So, by your logic, if either club can only get 10,000 people bothering to turn up to watch them, they don't deserve a senior club

its about sustainability. It we can sustain our club on 10k that is fine, they need to adjust to sustain theirs on 2k. Simple economics.

You can only spend what you bring it.

Jones28
13-03-2013, 11:15 AM
I think Mercer had the same views as you... I'm not a believer in this amalgamation view...all clubs have their heritage and their community history . They will be every bit as important to those who care about them as Hibs are to us. Who are we to say some shouldn't exist any more ... My belief is that clubs simply have to live within their means and as a result they will find their rightful level in the game...


But even then that can't happen if you don't have a pyramid system in place.

2 proffesional leagues with 14 teams per league, 3 up and 3 down, full pyramid system going right the way down the leagues. This means no clubs being disbanded, more competition for proffesional football = more attractive for fans = better for everyone. None of this buggering about with 12-12-18 etc etc. Keep it simple. Keep it attractive for the lifeblood of the game: the SUPPORTERS

LeighLoyal
13-03-2013, 12:55 PM
I see they don't want to go the hun newco route. I'm sure the authorities and media will be desperate to say they're the same club and allow them to keep their two Scottish Cups and the rest, put them straight into SFL3 without audited accounts etc.. no problem.

GGTH1-0
13-03-2013, 02:37 PM
Despite their overspending... I will be attending their next home game. Just to simply make my contribution.

NW
13-03-2013, 03:15 PM
Hibs really need more money too, why dont Hibs fans give their money to Hibs to help improve our own club. Sure as hell people will be complaining if we cannot afford new players etc......Hibs could come out and say well at least Dunfermline managed to pay their tax bill but sorry we cant afford a new striker. Lets get behind out own team who are losing money rather than others

blackpoolhibs
13-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Hibs really need more money too, why dont Hibs fans give their money to Hibs to help improve our own club. Sure as hell people will be complaining if we cannot afford new players etc......Hibs could come out and say well at least Dunfermline managed to pay their tax bill but sorry we cant afford a new striker. Lets get behind out own team who are losing money rather than others

:top marks

bigwheel
13-03-2013, 04:24 PM
Hibs really need more money too, why dont Hibs fans give their money to Hibs to help improve our own club. Sure as hell people will be complaining if we cannot afford new players etc......Hibs could come out and say well at least Dunfermline managed to pay their tax bill but sorry we cant afford a new striker. Lets get behind out own team who are losing money rather than others

Just because someone chooses to help another club in trouble doesn't need to mean they will give less to Hibs. I say let people make their own choice. A kind act will always get my support.

bigwheel
13-03-2013, 04:29 PM
[/B]
But even then that can't happen if you don't have a pyramid system in place.

2 proffesional leagues with 14 teams per league, 3 up and 3 down, full pyramid system going right the way down the leagues. This means no clubs being disbanded, more competition for proffesional football = more attractive for fans = better for everyone. None of this buggering about with 12-12-18 etc etc. Keep it simple. Keep it attractive for the lifeblood of the game: the SUPPORTERS

I agree, a pyramid system is needed to allow this to happen.

The comparison to England having 92 clubs from another poster isn't a fair comparison . England have a pyramid system, and they have clubs not only in the top conference league, but in some of the regional leagues below it that have fans and infrastructure better than many of our league clubs. They have more than 92 equivalent clubs, and they have a pyramid system that allows clubs to find their level..

Frazerbob
13-03-2013, 04:40 PM
DAFC issued with a winding up order by HMRC

The_Sauz
13-03-2013, 04:42 PM
I think this is the truth, and major restructuring of the whole of Scottish football needs done. Regional football, from the 2nd division down. A pyramid set up with the Highland league and the Junior leagues would also be a good start, play off in every division and much more, but turkeys dont vote for xmas, so we will see more of the same until teams die, and fans drift away even more.

I agree with what you say apart from the highlighted bit! I think we should be looking more from the 1st division down :agree:

Pete
13-03-2013, 04:44 PM
How would all these people who want to help the pars out feel if a group of fans took pity on hearts and helped them out, ultimately resulting in no consequences for their cheating?
Seething I'd bet.
If we're going to help cheats survive then we might as well just shut the gates of the clubs they have been pissing over for years. The thing that had kept them going through all the "weeteam" jibes and defeats is the hope that a natural correction might occur. If a bunch of clueless do-gooders ensure there are no consequences then they will ask what the point is.
Maybe Ferguson, all these journalists and all these well wishers should mind their own bloody business.

bigwheel
13-03-2013, 05:28 PM
How would all these people who want to help the pars out feel if a group of fans took pity on hearts and helped them out, ultimately resulting in no consequences for their cheating?
Seething I'd bet.
If we're going to help cheats survive then we might as well just shut the gates of the clubs they have been pissing over for years. The thing that had kept them going through all the "weeteam" jibes and defeats is the hope that a natural correction might occur. If a bunch of clueless do-gooders ensure there are no consequences then they will ask what the point is.
Maybe Ferguson, all these journalists and all these well wishers should mind their own bloody business.

The hornets nest question :-)

The fact that Mercer's Hearts tried to kill us makes this topic more emotional than most. Equally, the arrogance and lack of integrity of the Romanov regime brings to Hearts that, I suspect, would stop non Hearts fans from providing much support. If he was out of the picture and (say) a fans group were in charge, I suspect they would get wider support from the football community. Even if that were to happen, they won't get rid of their huge debt...that is a "defining moment" that will have to be resolved at some point...

Sylar
13-03-2013, 05:28 PM
Firstly, Raith need to do everything they possibly can to improve their gates and this is a decent ploy to try and get more fans through the gates (their attendance against Livingston at the weekend was embarrassing)...

Secondly, I don't understand the clamber to try and help good ol' Dunfermline. Here is an example of another club who have lived beyond their means and failed to cut their cloth accordingly. Nobody was clambering over themselves to help Motherwell, Livingston, Dundee or Gretna and I don't recall much sympathy towards Rangers during their demise because people quite rightly looked at these clubs and realised they're in their current position by their volition.

Sorry but **** them. They deserve to be treated exactly the same way as any other club who overspend, overachieve and find themselves in a financial hole.

Hibercelona
13-03-2013, 05:43 PM
Firstly, Raith need to do everything they possibly can to improve their gates and this is a decent ploy to try and get more fans through the gates (their attendance against Livingston at the weekend was embarrassing)...

Secondly, I don't understand the clamber to try and help good ol' Dunfermline. Here is an example of another club who have lived beyond their means and failed to cut their cloth accordingly. Nobody was clambering over themselves to help Motherwell, Livingston, Dundee or Gretna and I don't recall much sympathy towards Rangers during their demise because people quite rightly looked at these clubs and realised they're in their current position by their volition.

Sorry but **** them. They deserve to be treated exactly the same way as any other club who overspend, overachieve and find themselves in a financial hole.

Difference being that clubs like Hearts and Rangers are purely detestable clubs with purely detestable fans.

I wouldn't say that Dunfermline have "lived beyond their means" or have "over achieved" either for that matter. The issue is that there are far too many people here jumping on Celtic and Rangers supporter buses on a Saturday going past East End as if it doesn't exist.

If Dunfermline do go to the wall, you can be sure that they'll be far less upset faces here than there were when Rangers did.

Sylar
13-03-2013, 06:00 PM
Difference being that clubs like Hearts and Rangers are purely detestable clubs with purely detestable fans.

I wouldn't say that Dunfermline have "lived beyond their means" or have "over achieved" either for that matter. The issue is that there are far too many people here jumping on Celtic and Rangers supporter buses on a Saturday going past East End as if it doesn't exist.

If Dunfermline do go to the wall, you can be sure that they'll be far less upset faces here than there were when Rangers did.

And you think that's exclusive to Dunfermline? Towns and cities all over the country have to deal with large swathes of people travelling West (and East) every weekend. Clubs either therefore run ambition against finances (as the Pars have done for years) and learn a hard lesson or they live within a viable budget based on their potential support market.

Dunfermline have been hell bent on establishing/trying to maintain themselves as an SPL club for years, paying players wages they could ill afford along the way. Once the successive years of being an SPL side disappeared and they went back to being a middle of the road first division club, their attendances plummeted and the rumours of administration started to circle in 2008 when their regular home attendances were low. A quick cash injection (and subsequent return to the SPL for a few years) steadied the ship but once again, down in the 1st division, their attendances drop and they can no longer sustain their costs. A classic case of failing to cut cloth accordingly.

I also don't buy this "detestable" angle - people on here (and across Scottish football) screamed from the rafters about integrity. If integrity is a commodity which can be relaxed depending on the "morality" of the club, then Scottish Football fans are nought but hypocrites.

marinello59
13-03-2013, 06:01 PM
Difference being that clubs like Hearts and Rangers are purely detestable clubs with purely detestable fans.

.

So sporting integrity only applies to clubs we don't like? Surely not?

AndyM_1875
13-03-2013, 09:59 PM
I also don't buy this "detestable" angle - people on here (and across Scottish football) screamed from the rafters about integrity. If integrity is a commodity which can be relaxed depending on the "morality" of the club, then Scottish Football fans are nought but hypocrites.

The detestable angle has merit. Few fans have a bad word to say about Dunfermline. Unlike Hearts who are an arrogant bunch of twats and have behaved abysmally over the years treating other clubs with contempt. The Pars have never been like that.

As for "integrity" lets be brutally honest, much of last summer was nothing more than a gleeful exercise in giving the fallen giant Rangers a damn good kicking, not that they didn't deserve it. And yes fans are hypocrites, Twitter Celtic fans being the absolute worst of the lot.

Saorsa
13-03-2013, 10:06 PM
We should be offering a similar gesture to hahahahearts. It's what genuine big clubs do and there is a history of it here in Edinburgh by us towards hahahahearts. I don't think it has happened in reverse but I may be wrong.
We need to get over the hatred thing and remember the value of our rivalry.

Well done RaithNah, yer awrite, think I'll just stick tae hating them and hoping they go bust :aok:

I wouldnae gie they ***** the reek of my *****

Sir David Gray
13-03-2013, 10:56 PM
Difference being that clubs like Hearts and Rangers are purely detestable clubs with purely detestable fans.

I wouldn't say that Dunfermline have "lived beyond their means" or have "over achieved" either for that matter. The issue is that there are far too many people here jumping on Celtic and Rangers supporter buses on a Saturday going past East End as if it doesn't exist.

If Dunfermline do go to the wall, you can be sure that they'll be far less upset faces here than there were when Rangers did.

If you don't live beyond your means then you don't end up with a winding up order from HMRC and face possible extinction.

Pete
14-03-2013, 04:39 AM
The detestable angle has merit. Few fans have a bad word to say about Dunfermline. Unlike Hearts who are an arrogant bunch of twats and have behaved abysmally over the years treating other clubs with contempt. The Pars have never been like that.
I take it you don't have much to do with the fans of Raith Rovers or Cowdenbeath even though you hail from Fife. Dunfermline fans are still giving the "weeteam" stuff to Raith fans because they aren't 100% getting behind their cause. The sad thing is that there are lots of them getting behind their cause but a lot of them still share the hearts mentality and simply don't get it!

AndyM_1875
14-03-2013, 06:33 AM
I take it you don't have much to do with the fans of Raith Rovers or Cowdenbeath even though you hail from Fife. Dunfermline fans are still giving the "weeteam" stuff to Raith fans because they aren't 100% getting behind their cause. The sad thing is that there are lots of them getting behind their cause but a lot of them still share the hearts mentality and simply don't get it!

No.
I work with a couple of Dunfermline fans, am friends with many and i play for a Fife team and have lived in Fife for 12 years. They certainly don't speak Nastily of Raith or Cowdenbeath as teams. A few jokes about the towns sure, but that's just banter. Any genuine ill will is directed at Falkirk for some reason.

Rovers fans do not want Dunfermline to go bust. They need the Derbies & the rivalry. And Cowdenbeath have done amazingly well work being started by both Craig Levein and Mixu and coming from being a joke of a club. Well they're not a joke any more.

A few trolls on the Internet should not make a case for Pars fans having a "Hearts mentality"" cos in my experience they don't.

Sylar
14-03-2013, 09:49 AM
The detestable angle has merit. Few fans have a bad word to say about Dunfermline. Unlike Hearts who are an arrogant bunch of twats and have behaved abysmally over the years treating other clubs with contempt. The Pars have never been like that.

As for "integrity" lets be brutally honest, much of last summer was nothing more than a gleeful exercise in giving the fallen giant Rangers a damn good kicking, not that they didn't deserve it. And yes fans are hypocrites, Twitter Celtic fans being the absolute worst of the lot.

Motherwell, Livingston, Dundee and Gretna didn't/don't have a legacy of the kind of attitudes you're leveling here at Hearts and Rangers and absolutely nobody clambered over themselves to help these clubs.

Don't get me wrong, I've no ill will towards Dunfermline or their fans - I'm also certainly not a hypocrite in the sense that I like to see the rules applied consistently though and if they've lived outwith their means to such a degree that they now owe people money they can't afford, they deserve what's coming to them just like every other club before them. Detestable or otherwise.

bigwheel
14-03-2013, 10:58 AM
This "they've spent outwith their means, so stuff them " attitude on some posts is so sad to read....our football clubs like Dunfermline ( and Hearts for that matter! ) are far more than a balance sheet and the current set of owners. They have been the heart of their community for generations. I don't want any of these clubs to die...they might have to change , but I hope the play a big part in the lives of their communities for many generations to come..

Sylar
14-03-2013, 12:30 PM
This "they've spent outwith their means, so stuff them " attitude on some posts is so sad to read....our football clubs like Dunfermline ( and Hearts for that matter! ) are far more than a balance sheet and the current set of owners. They have been the heart of their community for generations. I don't want any of these clubs to die...they might have to change , but I hope the play a big part in the lives of their communities for many generations to come..

I can't speak for everyone else but I don't want to see these clubs die. I want to see them dealt with in accordance with how every club before them has been dealt with. I want to see clubs being forced to live within the constraints other clubs strive to and indeed begin to compete in a balanced and fair manner.

If Dunfermline need to endure administration to get their house in order, change their finances and become a self-sustaining club, so be it. The "poor Dunfermline" argument holds no bounds as they're where they are by their own financial mismanagement and their fans/boards/sponsors etc have enjoyed the rewards along the way.

Does your argument about "more than a balance sheet" "playing a part in the lives of the community" extend to Rangers too?

Clubs need to be accountable to their financial responsibilities like every other company or indeed individual. If they're failing to live in accordance with their income they should be dealt with accordingly. That, IMO, is different to saying we wish to see these clubs being wiped off the face of the footballing map.

bigwheel
14-03-2013, 01:42 PM
I can't speak for everyone else but I don't want to see these clubs die. I want to see them dealt with in accordance with how every club before them has been dealt with. I want to see clubs being forced to live within the constraints other clubs strive to and indeed begin to compete in a balanced and fair manner.

If Dunfermline need to endure administration to get their house in order, change their finances and become a self-sustaining club, so be it. The "poor Dunfermline" argument holds no bounds as they're where they are by their own financial mismanagement and their fans/boards/sponsors etc have enjoyed the rewards along the way.

Does your argument about "more than a balance sheet" "playing a part in the lives of the community" extend to Rangers too?

Clubs need to be accountable to their financial responsibilities like every other company or indeed individual. If they're failing to live in accordance with their income they should be dealt with accordingly. That, IMO, is different to saying we wish to see these clubs being wiped off the face of the footballing map.

yes, it does extend to Rangers. There's major elements of Rangers "traditions" that I personally don't have any affinity with, but they have been a part of the fabric of Scotland for many people for many years now.... and an important part of many people's lives. Dunfermline too..

Dunfermline have to sort themselves out, and that may be a painful process..I hope it's successful. I don't agree with the "stuff them" opinion and the lack of empathy from some. It's been us before and it could be some day again...

Sylar
14-03-2013, 02:03 PM
yes, it does extend to Rangers. There's major elements of Rangers "traditions" that I personally don't have any affinity with, but they have been a part of the fabric of Scotland for many people for many years now.... and an important part of many people's lives. Dunfermline too..

Dunfermline have to sort themselves out, and that may be a painful process..I hope it's successful. I don't agree with the "stuff them" opinion and the lack of empathy from some. It's been us before and it could be some day again...

We don't seem to disagree much to be honest.

The bit in bold is crucial - THEY have to sort themselves out and the scrambling from other parties (which wasn't evident for any of the other clubs I've cited) is where I have the issue.

Perhaps "stuff them" is a bit harsh but they've arrived at their current juncture by their own volition and they need to take steps to work their way back out of it, find a level which supports their financial potential and ensure they continue to run as a club. If they've shot themselves in the foot to the point where there's no return, it's unfortunate for the club and their fans but it doesn't then become the responsibility of everyone else in Scottish Football to save them.

That same attitude was adopted for every other club who've been here and Dunfermline shouldn't become an exception simply because they don't have many enemies.

Spike Mandela
15-03-2013, 01:41 PM
“@BBCthomasmcg: RT @BBCBMcLauchlin: No deal between Pars Community Trust *and Gavin Masterton over takeover of #Dunfermline #bbcsportscot”

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 02:04 PM
My Pars supporting mate has texted me saying they're finished. He's gutted, as you can imagine. I'm gutted for him.

Hibernian Verse
15-03-2013, 02:06 PM
Great wee club, always a good day out as well. Gutting for Scottish football and the first of many to follow soon I think. Hopefully the only one that does, though, is them over the road.

Pretty Boy
15-03-2013, 02:08 PM
A lesson to be learned for all clubs. You spend money you don't have then this is a very posible outcome.

Feel for the fans but Hibs fans have suffered more than a lot during this age of austerity in Scottish football so my sympathy is finite.

DarrenSQH
15-03-2013, 02:18 PM
A sad situation if true. Been to about 10-15 of their games this year and its a great wee club. Shame for the fans.

carnoustiehibee
15-03-2013, 02:22 PM
A lesson to be learned for all clubs. You spend money you don't have then this is a very posible outcome.

Feel for the fans but Hibs fans have suffered more than a lot during this age of austerity in Scottish football so my sympathy is finite.

Exactly, i like a wee trip to Dunfermline but have no sympathy for a club thats been run badly.

Craig_in_Prague
15-03-2013, 02:24 PM
So they'll be shut down for 130K or so... yet our pink neighbours get to pay a bill over 3 years in installments.

Why, again?

TheEastTerrace
15-03-2013, 02:27 PM
A lesson to be learned for all clubs. You spend money you don't have then this is a very posible outcome.

Feel for the fans but Hibs fans have suffered more than a lot during this age of austerity in Scottish football so my sympathy is finite.

Is that the case with DAFC though?

The SPL requring clubs to build 10,000 all-seater stadiums as a pre-requisite to being admitted to the league has proved to be a killer for the likes of Dunfermline.

Different economic times when the decision was made granted but none of these teams averaged anywhere near to 10,000 in home gates, so why was this stipluated? Save four games against the OF, most of the stadiums were way under capacity. It was only when the SPL realised the folly of this rule, it went down to 6,000.

DaveF
15-03-2013, 02:29 PM
So they'll be shut down for 130K or so... yet our pink neighbours get to pay a bill over 3 years in installments.

Why, again?

I'll believe they are gone when I see the gates being locked. As you say, why would HMRC not do a similar deal with DAFC like they did with the dafties over by.

MB62
15-03-2013, 02:30 PM
Great wee club, always a good day out as well. Gutting for Scottish football and the first of many to follow soon I think. Hopefully the only one that does, though, is them over the road.

A Raith Rovers supporting work colleague of mine is delighted they are going bust, sooner the better as far as he is concerned, hates the Pars. Personally, I don't understand that attitude :wink: :greengrin

Boyle89
15-03-2013, 02:32 PM
I feel really bad for pars fans. Being from dunfermline I go to some pars games if I can't make our games and my pars supporting friends are gutted. Masterton should've seen this coming and done something sooner.

MB62
15-03-2013, 02:34 PM
Is that the case with DAFC though?

The SPL requring clubs to build 10,000 all-seater stadiums as a pre-requisite to being admitted to the league has proved to be a killer for the likes of Dunfermline.

Different economic times when the decision was made granted but none of these teams averaged anywhere near to 10,000 in home gates, so why was this stipluated? Save four games against the OF, most of the stadiums were way under capacity. It was only when the SPL realised the folly of this rule, it went down to 6,000.

I've seen over 13,000 there in the recent past when we have visited them.

Pete
15-03-2013, 02:41 PM
A Raith Rovers supporting work colleague of mine is delighted they are going bust, sooner the better as far as he is concerned, hates the Pars. Personally, I don't understand that attitude :wink: :greengrin

...maybe because he's had all the "weeteam" and "always in our shadow" stuff rammed down his throats for years from dunfermline fans. A status they have falsely held.

The ones who should really hang their heads are the thousands from dunfermline who support clubs from Glasgow. If the pars are to be saved, the help should come from the surrounding community, not outsiders with "good intentions"

HIBERNIAN-0762
15-03-2013, 02:41 PM
Always had a wee soft spot for them, shame really, and for such a measly amount and to think what "they" have been getting away with for the last 5 years makes it all the more annoying. hope the Pars get through it OK.

PeeKay
15-03-2013, 02:49 PM
When they were promoted to the SPL the directors budgeted for higher attendances that never actually materialised. They seem to have been on a financial slippery slope ever since. While I do feel sorry for the supporters, I also feel sorry for all the local businesses that are owed money and will no doubt now have to accept a pence-in-the-pound deal - if they get anything at all.

SkintHibby
15-03-2013, 02:50 PM
My pal from school waaay back is a massive Par and although he has lived abroad his adult life I know he will be devastated.

Most Pars fans I've met in my life despise Hearts so Hibs may benefit from their demise - might get a fair few joining our ranks! :aok:

MB62
15-03-2013, 02:51 PM
...maybe because he's had all the "weeteam" and "always in our shadow" stuff rammed down his throats for years from dunfermline fans. A status they have falsely held.

The ones who should really hang their heads are the thousands from dunfermline who support clubs from Glasgow. If the pars are to be saved, the help should come from the surrounding community, not outsiders with "good intentions"

To be fair to my work colleague, he said exactly the same thing.
Still hates the Pars though.

Jim44
15-03-2013, 02:52 PM
So they'll be shut down for 130K or so... yet our pink neighbours get to pay a bill over 3 years in installments.

Why, again?

I don't really know the details, but is it not the case that they are struggling to service a deal already made with Hector?

CallumLaidlaw
15-03-2013, 02:55 PM
Disappointed for a few reasons. I live in the area so it's more like a home game. I have a fair few friends that are Pars fans so I'm gutted for them. The club has quite a lot of kids clubs in the community (mini-pars) that my son has taken part in. And lastly, a lack of a local team will in the long run more than likely just result in more old firm fans!

HIBERNIAN-0762
15-03-2013, 02:55 PM
Surely Sir Alex could put a team together for a fundraiser at East End?

DaveF
15-03-2013, 03:01 PM
Is this all heresay or is there anything official?

IWasThere2016
15-03-2013, 03:04 PM
Our game some needs some vision and a serious and fundamental overhaul/change ASAP!

Gatecrasher
15-03-2013, 03:12 PM
Our game some needs some vision and a serious and fundamental overhaul/change ASAP!
It's been needing it for years! But everyone with any authority is too busy approving pay rises and making erses of themselves

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 03:13 PM
The information that I've been told is that it's Masterton that's ripped the erse out of the club.

He's mortgaged the stadium twice over and lumped the club with the debt, albeit telling them it's interest free over 35 years.

The monies he received from those deals were never made available to the club and were moved around in his organisation.

From all accounts (pardon the pun), something dodgy has gone on. No wonder he's reticent to broker a deal as that would mean opening up the books to see exactly what's gone on.

For people thinking this is the same as the Hearts situation, it's not. The debt that Hearts were lumped with (most of it anyway) was for footballing reasons. Their squad was enhanced because of the money they received. The Pars never saw a drop of that money and the extent to the debt and the transactions themselves have only recently become apparent, not like the Hearts.

You can maybe liken it to the Glazers lumping a pile of debt on Man United just to buy the club. At least Man U have always been able to trade their way out of the debt if needed. The Pars cannot.

Masterton had his two daughters employed by the club. One of them on £80k a year. Nobody knows what her role is/was. It makes you feel lucky that our board don't work that way.

Bishop Hibee
15-03-2013, 03:14 PM
It's getting the overhaul TQM. Teams who overspent or dodged tax are being brought to book. Shame for Pars fans but they should regroup and build from the Fife leagues if necessary.

DaveF
15-03-2013, 03:16 PM
The information that I've been told is that it's Masterton that's ripped the erse out of the club.

He's mortgaged the stadium twice over and lumped the club with the debt, albeit telling them it's interest free over 35 years.

The money he received from those deals were never made available to the club and were moved around in his organisation.

From all accounts (pardon the pun), something dodgy has gone on. No wonder he's reticent to broker a deal as that would mean opening up the books to see exactly what's gone on.

For people thinking this is the same as the Hearts situation, it's not. The debt that Hearts were lumped with (most of it anyway) was for footballing reasons. Their squad was enhanced because of the money they received. The Pars never saw a drop of that money and the extent to the debt and the transactions themselves have only recently become apparent, not like the Hearts.

You can maybe liken it to the Glazers lumping a pile of debt on Man United just to buy the club. At least Man U have always been able to trade their way out of the debt if needed. The Pars cannot.

Masterton had his two daughters employed by the club. One of them on £80k a year. Nobody knows what her role is/was. It makes you feel lucky that our board don't work that way.

Interesting to read that, as Masterton claims he is owed millions by the club according to a BBC article a week or so back.

SkintHibby
15-03-2013, 03:22 PM
Our game some needs some vision and a serious and fundamental overhaul/change ASAP!

Scottish football needs a spreading of the wealth (like American football) but it's not going to happen so it's a busted flush!

JeMeSouviens
15-03-2013, 03:24 PM
The New Huns precedent means they can start again in D3 but I guess it might be difficult if they lose EEP.

Tell you what, if the new 18 team national league gets off the ground and starts off with NewHuns, NewPars and NewHearts, I don't rate Fatty McCoist's chances too highly if it's 2 up/2 down. :wink:

truehibernian
15-03-2013, 03:25 PM
Our game some needs some vision and a serious and fundamental overhaul/change ASAP!

One governing body, one expanded top league (16 teams), Championship type second division (14 teams), play-offs (two up, two down automatic, third bottom/third top play off - no split), regionalised lower leagues (many junior clubs attract bigger crowds so include them), Euro place for both domestic cup winners (where possible), no seedings in cup tournaments, summer football or look at 4G pitches to prevent ridiculous postponements. Get rid of Regan and Doncaster - place experienced football guys at the helm who are voted on board by all member clubs. Equal share of income to clubs. Far better negotiated TV deals and far more transparency.

All the SFA Academies are in place - however Scottish Government should be looking at heavily investing in 9 (2 in the Highlands/Islands, Edinburgh, The Borders, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Dumfries) elite regionalised football/sport indoor centres outwith this, in order to reach those kids who may slip through the net or indeed not have the access to such trials or not get through them (and those that don't have the family, financial or social supports) - these centres should be multi sport facilities to include swimming and other sports. Doing away with a fair few blazers could employ skilled coaches at these centres. Clubs could also buy into the process.

PE and sport should also have far more time in the school/college timetable.

Oh and make going to football cheaper and less corrupt.

Simples :greengrin

bingo70
15-03-2013, 03:26 PM
I'd have more sympathy for them if they brought through a youngster and sold them to raise funds now and again.

Clubs like dunfermline are the problem with Scottish football imo, too reliant on the old firm to bring through big crowds now and again and not enough focus on developing there own players.

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 03:28 PM
Interesting to read that, as Masterton claims he is owed millions by the club according to a BBC article a week or so back.

I likened it to me mortgaging my friends house, keeping the money and then telling him that, out of the goodness of my heart, I was letting him pay it back to the bank over 35 years interest free.

He also told the fans group, led by Jim Leishman, that the club didn't have anything outstanding owed to HMRC. What he neglected to say was that there was a scheduled payment, from the deal they'd negotiated, due the week after and that the club had no way of paying. So, in essence, he was right. At that exact time, no payment was due.

He's a sneaky one.

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 03:35 PM
I'd have more sympathy for them if they brought through a youngster and sold them to raise funds now and again.

Clubs like dunfermline are the problem with Scottish football imo, too reliant on the old firm to bring through big crowds now and again and not enough focus on developing there own players.


As much as I don't like him, Kenny Sheils took a training session with the Pars youth team. He ripped into them for turning up in Rangers and Celtic tops.

He was pointing out that why should a club like Dunfermline be investing their time and energy into developing these kids when they weren't showing any sort of loyalty and enthusiasm back.

I'm not saying this is the reason why Dunfermline haven't brought more players through, but I'd suggest you look a little deeper into it before saying things like you just did. Dunfermline have the best youth policy in the whole of Fife.

One of the things that the Fans Group were looking to bring in was that the youth teams would be funded by local businesses. A cut of the profits from sales of players originally brought up from the youth teams would be put back into it. Unfortunately, this won't get off the ground due to Masterton seemingly being hell bent on ending the club.

Baldy Foghorn
15-03-2013, 03:37 PM
Another Club living well beyond their means.....I have little sympathy for them.....

I Remember a Cup Tie at Easter Road on a Sunday c1985, and they packed the Dunbar End, however their fanbase now is very very poor....Maybe too many from Fife choose to watch the Old Firm, but the DAFC Board should have been cognisant of that, not racking up unmanagable levels of debt.....

Scottish Football is dying on it's feet, and too many Clubs will probably follow suit, just not enough interest for the paying public.....

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 03:40 PM
Another Club living well beyond their means.....I have little sympathy for them.....

I Remember a Cup Tie at Easter Road on a Sunday c1985, and they packed the Dunbar End, however their fanbase now is very very poor....Maybe too many from Fife choose to watch the Old Firm, but the DAFC Board should have been cognisant of that, not racking up unmanagable levels of debt.....

Scottish Football is dying on it's feet, and too many Clubs will probably follow suit, just not enough interest for the paying public.....

Ridiculous.

In what way have they lived beyond their means?

hibees 7062
15-03-2013, 03:40 PM
So they'll be shut down for 130K or so... yet our pink neighbours get to pay a bill over 3 years in installments.

Why, again?

Salmond

Baldy Foghorn
15-03-2013, 03:44 PM
Ridiculous.

In what way have they lived beyond their means?

Racking up debts, with an average crowd of c3,000........ Is that good Business practice?:confused:

cal-d hibs
15-03-2013, 03:46 PM
Having lived in Fife for over 10 years and working over here since that time I have met a load of Pars fans, many I can call good close friends.

One of my first away games was at East End Park 1-1 in the Scottish cup in 1979 and I always enjoyed going there.

This is a very sad day for them and Scottish football. Anyone who can't quite grasp this.....well words fail me.

I'm going to Starks Park tomorrow to see the end of a team and town that don't deserve this, whatever many people on here think.

It was so nearly us in the past and I know how raw that pain still feels over 20 years later.

I am gutted for them.

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 03:48 PM
Racking up debts, with an average crowd of c3,000........ Is that good Business practice?:confused:

As I posted above, they have had the majority of their debts racked up through no fault of their own.

Yes, they could have done a lot more to engage the local community. The fact remains though that they have done a hell of a lot to negate the debts that they've been saddled with over the last year or two.

Their playing squad has reflected a club with average crowds of c3,000. So they have not been living beyond their means.

Boyle89
15-03-2013, 03:48 PM
I'd have more sympathy for them if they brought through a youngster and sold them to raise funds now and again.

Clubs like dunfermline are the problem with Scottish football imo, too reliant on the old firm to bring through big crowds now and again and not enough focus on developing there own players.

That's nonsense. It's easy for us to say that as we have been lucky with our youngsters that have come through. Their problem has been strictly at board level in terms of budgeting and the fact that masterton seems to be as bent as they come.

Baldy Foghorn
15-03-2013, 03:52 PM
As I posted above, they have had the majority of their debts racked up through no fault of their own.

Yes, they could have done a lot more to engage the local community. The fact remains though that they have done a hell of a lot to negate the debts that they've been saddled with over the last year or two.

Their playing squad has reflected a club with average crowds of c3,000. So they have not been living beyond their means.

Remortgaging the Stadium was foolhardy, and they spent much more than they were bringing in......Article Yesterday about 1 player, who quit his job to go full time at DAFC, and is now in a worse position......

This does not just happen overnight.....

Pretty Boy
15-03-2013, 03:56 PM
Ridiculous.

In what way have they lived beyond their means?

Craig Brewster.

Green Fish
15-03-2013, 03:57 PM
Have many friends who are pars, if they fold will be gutted for them. Major implications for the town and it's businesses also. My laddie trains at the academy, guess it would go and my local, Elizabethan is away fans haven. Hopefully something can be done.

Pete
15-03-2013, 04:06 PM
Disappointed for a few reasons. I live in the area so it's more like a home game. I have a fair few friends that are Pars fans so I'm gutted for them. The club has quite a lot of kids clubs in the community (mini-pars) that my son has taken part in. And lastly, a lack of a local team will in the long run more than likely just result in more old firm fans!

Come to think of it they do offer so much for kids of all ages. You cant say they haven't tried. I got a leaflet through the door recently about summer camp and even that had kids with old firm tops on.

As someone who stays pretty close to the ground I'm starting to feel a bit guilty. My boy has benefited from their classes so maybe we should go along. Bit of a u-turn but the local consequences, like the ones you pointed out, aren't good.

inglisavhibs
15-03-2013, 04:06 PM
Having lived in Fife for over 10 years and working over here since that time I have met a load of Pars fans, many I can call good close friends.

One of my first away games was at East End Park 1-1 in the Scottish cup in 1979 and I always enjoyed going there.

This is a very sad day for them and Scottish football. Anyone who can't quite grasp this.....well words fail me.

I'm going to Starks Park tomorrow to see the end of a team and town that don't deserve this, whatever many people on here think.

It was so nearly us in the past and I know how raw that pain still feels over 20 years later.

I am gutted for them.

They are not gone yet, it's a bit like the hearts situation where the bulk of the money is owed to the owner.It,s not really in Masterton's interest for the Pars to go out of business just like Ubig with Hearts as they would lose out. I think both çlubs will be kept going by their owners but on a much lower spend, in Dunfermline's case probably going part time. Both clubs could possibly lose their stadiums though.

bingo70
15-03-2013, 04:13 PM
That's nonsense. It's easy for us to say that as we have been lucky with our youngsters that have come through. Their problem has been strictly at board level in terms of budgeting and the fact that masterton seems to be as bent as they come.

Lucks got nothing to do with it, we've just got a good youth set up.

Comparing them to another club other than them how come the likes of livi and falkirk can bring through young players to sell on but dunfermline don't?

They probably do Chuck a decent amount of money at it but they've not brought anyone decent through in years so they're doing something wrong, it'd be interesting to see if they've reviewed the youth set up as much as they've reviewed the managers position over the last 5-10 years.

Hibernia Na Eir
15-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Would they have sympathy for Hibs if tables were turned?
Made their bed. Time to lie in it.

cal-d hibs
15-03-2013, 04:19 PM
They are not gone yet, it's a bit like the hearts situation where the bulk of the money is owed to the owner.It,s not really in Masterton's interest for the Pars to go out of business just like Ubig with Hearts as they would lose out. I think both çlubs will be kept going by their owners but on a much lower spend, in Dunfermline's case probably going part time. Both clubs could possibly lose their stadiums though.

I'm hearing some very sad voices over here and while it's not over yet they are saying its all but terminal. I think the Pars should have done more but with Masterton and TPC its all been what they want the Pars fans to hear rather than what's really been going on for the past 10 years let alone 10 weeks.
I feel if they lose the stadium then that's the gig up sadly.

blackpoolhibs
15-03-2013, 04:24 PM
Ridiculous.

In what way have they lived beyond their means?

Craig Brewster, Stevie Crawford. Outbidding clubs for their services, and paying wages clubs like Hibs couldn't afford with 5k crowds. This leads to mortgaging your mates house and the trouble they are in now.

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Would they have sympathy for Hibs if tables were turned?
Made their bed. Time to lie in it.

Every single one of the Pars fans I know, would. I can't speak for them all.

blackpoolhibs
15-03-2013, 04:27 PM
Every single one of the Pars fans I know, would. I can't speak for them all.

I still wake up at night in tears dreaming of Third Lanark. :wink:

Green Fish
15-03-2013, 04:27 PM
Would they have sympathy for Hibs if tables were turned?
Made their bed. Time to lie in it.

They probably would mate. Blinkered, once some clubs go more will follow. End result cant be good for Scottish football.

cal-d hibs
15-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Every single one of the Pars fans I know, would. I can't speak for them all.

As would every Pars fan I know.

Still we could always replace them with Celtc Colts. Would make some folk happy.:rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
15-03-2013, 04:31 PM
They probably would mate. Blinkered, once some clubs go more will follow. End result cant be good for Scottish football.

Neither is running your club into the ground with debt. Clubs and we are no different, need to realise they cant keep spending money they dont have chasing a dream.

There are far too many full time clubs in Scotland imo, and if they have to go and show others what will happen if you continue to do so, then thats just unlucky for Dunfermline.

Jonnyboy
15-03-2013, 04:37 PM
While I've no sympathy for the cretins who caused this to happen to Dunfermline I feel a huge amount of empathy towards the Pars fans. Their team looks like it might die and it's no fault of theirs. I recall when it looked as though Hibs might die and I wouldn't wish that on Pars fans

HUTCHYHIBBY
15-03-2013, 04:37 PM
They probably would mate. Blinkered, once some clubs go more will follow. End result cant be good for Scottish football.

Natural selection, could be just what Scottish football needs, although obviously painful for some.

Green Fish
15-03-2013, 04:46 PM
Neither is running your club into the ground with debt. Clubs and we are no different, need to realise they cant keep spending money they dont have chasing a dream.

There are far too many full time clubs in Scotland imo, and if they have to go and show others what will happen if you continue to do so, then thats just unlucky for Dunfermline.

I agree with you, but is hat the fans fault? We continue to make losses but are fotunate we have STF.

Cant help feeling sorry for my mates though, thats all.

Ive listened to Rovers, Pars, east fife and cowden fans dismiss talk of one Fife team, may have to happen one day.

cal-d hibs
15-03-2013, 04:54 PM
While I've no sympathy for the cretins who caused this to happen to Dunfermline I feel a huge amount of empathy towards the Pars fans. Their team looks like it might die and it's no fault of theirs. I recall when it looked as though Hibs might die and I wouldn't wish that on Pars fans

This is the start, middle and end for me.

:flag:

blackpoolhibs
15-03-2013, 04:54 PM
I agree with what everyone says about the fans, although when things are going well when they normally do when you overspend, those same fans lap it up. They cant have it both ways i'm afraid?

Beefster
15-03-2013, 05:04 PM
If everyone that gives a **** about Dunfermline going under, maybe went to their games then they might be in a better situation. If they hadn't spent money they didn't have, they might be in a better situation.

I don't see what me wailing about the demise of them is going to do though. So I won't.

HibeeMG
15-03-2013, 05:14 PM
If everyone that gives a **** about Dunfermline going under, maybe went to their games then they might be in a better situation. If they hadn't spent money they didn't have, they might be in a better situation.

I don't see what me wailing about the demise of them is going to do though. So I won't.

Funnily enough, I've been to quite a few Pars games this season.

But, and I don't know how many times this needs said, their situation IS NOT BECAUSE THEY SPENT MONEY THEY DIDN'T HAVE.

If you take a look at the teams they have had over the last few years, nobody in their right mind would think they had paid for better quality players than they should.