John Collins and Gareth Evans leave Livi

[BarneyK]

Hearing that John Collins and Gareth Evans have been mutually consented out of Livingston.

[S.sct]

Hearing that John Collins and Gareth Evans have been mutually consented out of Livingston.

Going to Yams?. Surely not....

[Jonnyboy]

Going to Yams?. Surely not....

Natural progression really

Hibs - class
Livi - industrial
Hearts - pub team

:agree:

[jw1410]

Fenlon out Collins in... :cb

[Part/Time Supporter]

Hearing that John Collins and Gareth Evans have been mutually consented out of Livingston.

Not according to the Beeb. Their story is that Evans was punted and Collins resigned in protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21623364

[jacomo]

Fenlon out Collins in... :cb

Director of Football? Run the training centre?

East Mains just doesn't seem to have contributed enough, could the man who resigned the day after it opened come back to save it?

[BarneyK]

Not according to the Beeb. Their story is that Evans was punted and Collins resigned in protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21623364

Fair play. Just heard they were away. He's a hell of a man for his resignations :greengrin

[Sylar]

Livingston's board of directors are unbelievably incompetent.

I suppose this goes with the pattern of previous boards of directors at Almondvale who have subsequently driven fans away with their ludicrous mismanagement of the club, be it financial, personnel or downright incompetence on all fronts.

[blackpoolhibs]

Fair play. Just heard they were away. He's a hell of a man for his resignations :greengrin

:agree:

The Kevin Keegan of the north.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure Rod Petrie is grateful that Collins hasn't went on to prove Hibs wrong in letting him go.

[Malthibby]

Livingston's board of directors are unbelievably incompetent.

I suppose this goes with the pattern of previous boards of directors at Almondvale who have subsequently driven fans away with their ludicrous mismanagement of the club, be it financial, personnel or downright incompetence on all fronts.

Indeed. Fair play to JC for walking; an honourable chap. Shurely no-one can have a go at him for that?

[Green forever]

I'm sure Rod Petrie is grateful that Collins hasn't went on to prove Hibs wrong in letting him go.

Collins resigned

[Hibs Class]

Fair play. Just heard they were away. He's a hell of a man for his resignations :greengrin

Maybe just principled.

[Hainan Hibs]

Would love to see him in some capacity at East Mains.

[WindyMiller]

Would love to see him in some capacity at East Mains.


http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/images/employee_cutting_grass.jpg

[AlbertK86]

Man of principles is JC


However poor decision to give Evans the job... Suspect he was just a front for JC anyway

[Scottie]

http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/images/employee_cutting_grass.jpg

Last manager to lift a trophy with Hibs FACT !!!
Have him back in a jot. Can it really be 6 years ago ?

[Diclonius]

Seriously guys, I'm telling you - Collins is a quality manager.

[Captain Trips]

John Collins was tasked with the hardest job of any manager we have had in last few years, come in just as we are selling some of the best players we have had in years was never a task that was going to fully work out. Replacing crap with better is a far easier task that what JC had to do and IMO he overall was doing a good job.

[jw1410]

Director of Football? Run the training centre?

East Mains just doesn't seem to have contributed enough, could the man who resigned the day after it opened come back to save it?

I was just kidding but you make a good point.

[jw1410]

Does Paddy have an assistant?

[Billy Whizz]

Does Paddy have an assistant?

Liam O'Brien of course

[MWHIBBIES]

Last manager to lift a trophy with Hibs FACT !!!
Have him back in a jot. Can it really be 6 years ago ?I wasn't sure until you said FACT !!!

[oramhibee]

Does Paddy have an assistant?

No,but Liam O'Brien is the first team coach, so I guess he sort of acts as an assistant manager. In Football Manager 2013, he is labelled as Asisstant Manager.

[HiBremian]

John Collins = Hibs Class
Hibs = Not Hibs Class

[TowerHibs]

Collins is top drawer - hero of mine

[Eyrie]

John Collins was tasked with the hardest job of any manager we have had in last few years, come in just as we are selling some of the best players we have had in years was never a task that was going to fully work out. Replacing crap with better is a far easier task that what JC had to do and IMO he overall was doing a good job.

Except he replaced the talent we sold with crap, setting in motion the downward spiral that reached its nadir with Calderdud's signings.

[Peevemor]

John Collins was tasked with the hardest job of any manager we have had in last few years, come in just as we are selling some of the best players we have had in years was never a task that was going to fully work out. Replacing crap with better is a far easier task that what JC had to do and IMO he overall was doing a good job.

Collins blew his budget on some of the worst players I've seen "play" for Hibs. He had one of the biggest budgets outwith Rantic and the Merricks , but still managed to fill the squad with utter crap - and to top it all he couldn't even man manage them.

I blame JC for Hibs' mediocrity since his departure. It's taken a long time to get out of the hole he left us in, but I think that we're finally (albeit slowly) getting somewhere with PF.

The ball's round etc. - JC was a great player but now he should just stick to talking the talk.

[One Day Soon]

John Collins = Hibs Class
Hibs = Not Hibs Class

That is really very good.

[Sylar]

Apparently some of the Livingston players are "delighted" at the news. Rumours that the players were unhappy at the intense training schedule (now where does that sound familiar?) :rolleyes:

Football players are lazy *******s :agree:

[Captain Trips]

Collins blew his budget on some of the worst players I've seen "play" for Hibs. He had one of the biggest budgets outwith Rantic and the Merricks , but still managed to fill the squad with utter crap - and to top it all he couldn't even man manage them.

I blame JC for Hibs' mediocrity since his departure. It's taken a long time to get out of the hole he left us in, but I think that we're finally (albeit slowly) getting somewhere with PF.

The ball's round etc. - JC was a great player but now he should just stick to talking the talk.

None of that detracts from him having the toughest job IMO of any manager of late regardless of who he bought. Still ended up with a trophy and a pretty good overall match record, so for me one of the better managers we have had. I can think of a lot of excuses why a manager cannot replace Brown Thomson etc but some more recent managers have no excuse at all.

[AlbertK86]

None of that detracts from him having the toughest job IMO of any manager of late regardless of who he bought. Still ended up with a trophy and a pretty good overall match record, so for me one of the better managers we have had.

Spot on

[Captain Trips]

Except he replaced the talent we sold with crap, setting in motion the downward spiral that reached its nadir with Calderdud's signings.

There were 3/4 years before CC arrived it is not JCs fault the next 2/3 managers couldnt replace the previous ones bad players, if JC bought a lot of crap really should have been easy enough for Mixu to get in better then if he didnt manage it Yogi by the time CC and later PF it was a whole new host of rubbish.

[Peevemor]

None of that detracts from him having the toughest job IMO of any manager of late regardless of who he bought. Still ended up with a trophy and a pretty good overall match record, so for me one of the better managers we have had. I can think of a lot of excuses why a manager cannot replace Brown Thomson etc but some more recent managers have no excuse at all.

I disagree. For me the managers that followed him and had to try to sort out the mess he left had a far harder job.

Don't forget that we were on an awful run when he chickened out.

[Captain Trips]

I disagree. For me the managers that followed him and had to try to sort out the mess he left had a far harder job.

Don't forget that we were on an awful run when he chickened out.

Well I disagree I would much rather clear a mess than replace £10M+ worth, im not forgetting any run he was on. Im not going to change my mind on his task on arrival and the job he did and I do not expect you to.

[SMAXXA]

Looks like neither of them have quite kicked on and done anything that would make most wish they had remained at Hibs. I actually thought JC would have had quite alot of good contacts to bring in some good quality plaers, even on loan. Doesnt seem to have happened though.

Mind I dont know enough of the situation but Livi look like they are totally void of stability once again. They should have kept Bollan IMO

[SMAXXA]

Well I disagree I would much rather clear a mess than replace £10M+ worth, im not forgetting any run he was on. Im not going to change my mind on his task on arrival and the job he did and I do not expect you to.

Do you ever change your mind on anything when having a debate :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

I don't think it really matters what you or I think of Collins' record. The fact is he chose to walk out of Hibs (and now Livi), which suggests he isn't committed to working through problems with other senior staff in the way that most managers (good or bad) would. If he wants to have absolute control of a football club he should buy one.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't think it really matters what you or I think of Collins' record. The fact is he chose to walk out of Hibs (and now Livi), which suggests he isn't committed to working through problems with other senior staff in the way that most managers (good or bad) would. If he wants to have absolute control of a football club he should buy one.

:agree: :top marks

[Peevemor]

Well I disagree I would much rather clear a mess than replace £10M+ worth, im not forgetting any run he was on. Im not going to change my mind on his task on arrival and the job he did and I do not expect you to.

Do you remember the players he brought in (including some that were relatively expensive)? Can you name one that was any good? Can you name one that's done anything of note since?

A manager who can't man manage and can't spot a player - brilliant!

[Captain Trips]

Do you ever change your mind on anything when having a debate :wink:

Im stating my opinion on the matter its not about changing my mind, I have gone into many debates not feeling as strongly as I do on matters with an open mind what about you?

[SMAXXA]

Im stating my opinion on the matter its not about changing my mind, I have gone into many debates not feeling as strongly as I do on matters with an open mind what about you?

It has been known :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

Do you remember the players he brought in (including some that were relatively expensive)? Can you name one that was any good? Can you name one that's done anything of note since?

A manager who can't man manage and can't spot a player - brilliant!

Managed to win a fair amount of games and a cup - brilliant.

[MrRobot]

If Collins wants a successful career as a manager, he will not go to Hearts.

[ScottB]

None of that detracts from him having the toughest job IMO of any manager of late regardless of who he bought. Still ended up with a trophy and a pretty good overall match record, so for me one of the better managers we have had. I can think of a lot of excuses why a manager cannot replace Brown Thomson etc but some more recent managers have no excuse at all.

He still had a squad full of players like Brown, Fletcher, Shiels, Jones et all. Quality that any of his predecessors would have given their right arm for. He supplemented that quality with ludicrously expensive dross like Maka and O'Brien, then tossed his toys out the pram.

Fenlon has had the toughest job of any recent Hibs manager. Collins won a cup, and well done to him for that, but that squad would be running away with 2nd in the current SPL easily.

[Hibeesforever]

Director of Football? Run the training centre?

East Mains just doesn't seem to have contributed enough, could the man who resigned the day after it opened come back to save it?

The Academy needs a legend drill sergeant. JC would fit the bill fantastically well.
Would Mr Petrie and Pat be able to handle his perfection ?
If ever there is a Scottish footballing role mode, JC is the man.

[Peevemor]

The Academy needs a legend drill sergeant. JC would fit the bill fantastically well.
Would Mr Petrie and Pat be able to handle his perfection ?
If ever there is a Scottish footballing role mode, JC is the man.

JC is exactly what we don't need at East Mains. In any walk of life, getting the best out of people isn't just about "drilling" them.

[WindyMiller]

Last manager to lift a trophy with Hibs FACT !!!
Have him back in a jot. Can it really be 6 years ago ?

I was a big supporter of JC, right up until he resigned.
Many on here claim(ed) he only won the Cup with Mowbray's team, but I fought his corner.

His lack of a top job must prove me wrong.

[Scottie]

I was a big supporter of JC, right up until he resigned.
Many on here claim(ed) he only won the Cup with Mowbray's team, but I fought his corner.

His lack of a top job must prove me wrong.

Cant disagree with you there mate.

With his vast contacts throughout his playing days in Scotland,England and France you'd think someone somewhere would rate him or give him a chance.Dissapointed it went so wrong for him at Hibs.

But like you said his lack of a top job speaks volumes. Not all great players make great managers.

[1987green]

Apparently some of the Livingston players are "delighted" at the news. Rumours that the players were unhappy at the intense training schedule (now where does that sound familiar?) :rolleyes:

Football players are lazy *******s :agree:


100% bollocks. I was speaking to two Livi players tonight and they are gutted at this as the club was going forward in the right manor and all the players enjoyed the training sessions. Best footballing side in the league by a mile

[jabis]

Does Paddy have an assistant?


No,but Liam O'Brien is the first team coach, so I guess he sort of acts as an assistant manager. In Football Manager 2013, he is labelled as Asisstant Manager.

:aok: cheers,
Hibs fans never knew that.

[jacomo]

JC is exactly what we don't need at East Mains. In any walk of life, getting the best out of people isn't just about "drilling" them.

JC delivered some unbelievable performances whilst in charge. The 81:19 game against the Yams, for example, the most dominant 1-0 win I've ever seen.

There are question marks over his time here, for sure, but the players were fit and played as a unit.

My opinion of football players is that the really good ones want to work hard, and the lazy or stupid ones need to be told to work hard. A few of our ex-players may go on to regret that they did not have more discipline drilled into them in their formative years.

[HibeeMG]

100% bollocks. I was speaking to two Livi players tonight and they are gutted at this as the club was going forward in the right manor and all the players enjoyed the training sessions. Best footballing side in the league by a mile

I've been to quite a few 1st Division games this season as my mate is a Pars fan.

I'd agree that Livi were the best footballing side in the division for the first half of the season. They didn't get the points their football deserved. Since the turn of the year they've not looked like they had an actual way of playing set out.

The best footballing side in the division right now is Cowdenbeath. By a mile. I was at their game against Dunfermline a few weeks ago. They were bloody brilliant.

[Pete]

JC is exactly what we don't need at East Mains. In any walk of life, getting the best out of people isn't just about "drilling" them.

Have to disagree. When it comes to physical fitness drilling and hard work is exactly what's needed.

I wouldn't let him do much else though.

[The Falcon]

I don't think it really matters what you or I think of Collins' record. The fact is he chose to walk out of Hibs (and now Livi), which suggests he isn't committed to working through problems with other senior staff in the way that most managers (good or bad) would. If he wants to have absolute control of a football club he should buy one.

:agree:


His actions suggest he may be more petulant than principled. Sometimes things dont always go the way you want them to.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think it really matters what you or I think of Collins' record. The fact is he chose to walk out of Hibs (and now Livi), which suggests he isn't committed to working through problems with other senior staff in the way that most managers (good or bad) would. If he wants to have absolute control of a football club he should buy one.

:agree: He's no appetite for a fight as a manager.

Here are 3 reasons he was not good enough when left to bring in his own players.

Terry Gatheussi
Brian Kerr
Alan O'Brien.

There's 3 without even mentioning the biggest one. :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

His biggest weakness was signing players. But its ungrateful and snide not to give him, as opposed to Mowbray, credit for the Cup final. Collins had the tactics, took the players on warm weather camp and had Benji and Fletcher on unstoppable form. In the end he wanted to change too much and ruffled too many feathers. Which is why he left.

My suspicion is Mowbray would have had us lose that game.

[Sylar]

100% bollocks. I was speaking to two Livi players tonight and they are gutted at this as the club was going forward in the right manor and all the players enjoyed the training sessions. Best footballing side in the league by a mile

I hope that's true to be honest - my source for that comment (hence use of the word "apparently", as it was far from ironclad) was the 2 Livingston fans forums and a few comments on both Facebook/Pie and Bovril.

They certainly play some wonderfully easy on the eye football and had they a more prolific striker leading the line, I've no doubt would be sitting top or just behind right now. Even as it is, win their game in hand and it's up to third...

Bizarre decision.

[Alex Trager]

John Collins was tasked with the hardest job of any manager we have had in last few years, come in just as we are selling some of the best players we have had in years was never a task that was going to fully work out. Replacing crap with better is a far easier task that what JC had to do and IMO he overall was doing a good job.

You'd say he had the hardest job? Even though we still had quality in the team all over the park. Especially in comparison to the likes of pat fenlons rebuilding.

[Captain Trips]

You'd say he had the hardest job? Even though we still had quality in the team all over the park. Especially in comparison to the likes of pat fenlons rebuilding.

Yes as those players would have been leaving also so yes I do still think he had the hardest job as a manager. I would rather rebuild any day than be measured against who I brought in in comparison to a £3m pound player, JC could well have bought a lot better but was never going to get same quality, Yogi, CC and PF will have found it a lot easier to find better than what they had JC was never going to better those players he lost.

Well he must have down something right thats for sure.

[Nailrod]

Last five Hibs managers % performance (All matches, based on 3 pts a win, 1 a draw, 0 a loss, against perfect record)

JC....................... 49%
Mixu.................... 42%
Yogi.................... 38%
CC...................... 33%
PF...................... 43%

[Russell The Dug]

***** manager and it's always about John Collins. Not surprised he's walked out on Livi in the slightest.

[Nailrod]

I disagree. For me the managers that followed him and had to try to sort out the mess he left had a far harder job.

Don't forget that we were on an awful run when he chickened out.

The 'awful run' we were on had lasted 8 games. We had won 1, drawn 3, and lost 4. In the 11 games immediately prior to that since the start of the season we had won 7, drawn 3, and lost 1. The seven wins included victories against Hearts, Celtic, and Rangers.

In the eight games after our form fell away this season we won 2, drew 1, and lost 5. In the 11 games prior to that we had won 6, drawn 2, and lost 3. That included 1 draw against Celtic. (Going right back to the start of the season we had one more win, draw, and loss, including a draw against Hearts.)

It's funny how time can alter perspective.

[hfc rd]

My little brother plays for the U15's and he says that John Collins was hardly ever present at Livingston. He cared more about his Sky Sports job than working with the young lads coming through in the youth setup. Only showed his face for 2 seconds and that was in the car park driving away. He didn't even speak to the players and get to know them. Brian Welsh was a better director of football down there as he always used to come and help the young lads and all the youngsters appreciated him.

[Alex Trager]

Yes as those players would have been leaving also so yes I do still think he had the hardest job as a manager. I would rather rebuild any day than be measured against who I brought in in comparison to a £3m pound player, JC could well have bought a lot better but was never going to get same quality, Yogi, CC and PF will have found it a lot easier to find better than what they had JC was never going to better those players he lost.

Well he must have down something right thats for sure.

As far as keeping up the quality of the player that he had when he arrived i agree, it was hard to follow. However, he did have a decent budget to play with seen as the Golden Gen had just about all been sold off for big sums.
So in that case i understand what you mean, but in terms of taking the club forward i would say that Fenlon's had one of the hardest jobs to do, he has come in to a job where there is a hell of a lot shorter budget than Collins had, sure the quality wasnt there so he could build on that but hes still had to work with the dross, that some are argueing spiralled from Collins' signings- which is a matter of opinion- what isnt a matter of opinion is that the quality of the player he inherited was very poor, even though most had been sold of the Golden Gen some were still left, making it easier for Collins to build. We expected that it wouldnt be matched when they left, or i did anyway, these players were very good.
So basically i would say Fenlon had to work with nads players and a shorter budget, a lot of pressure from the fans and thus the board, whereas Collins inherited the GG and things were rosy

[Peevemor]

The 'awful run' we were on had lasted 8 games. We had won 1, drawn 3, and lost 4...

Motherwell (A) L 1-2
St Mirren (H) L 0-1
Hearts (H) D 1-1
Gretna (A) W 1-0
Dundee U (H) D 2-2
Aberdeen (A) L 1-3
Inverness (A) L 0-2
Falkirk (H) D 1-1

Then it continued for 4 games under his mentor, Tommy Craig

Celtic (A) D 1-1
Kilmarnock (A) L 1-2
Rangers (H) L 1-2
St Mirren (A) 1-2

A win at Gretna, a home draw against the yams (our goal was a Berra OG) and a draw at Ibrox. This was a squad that included Fletch, Boozy, Murphy, Jones, Benji & Zemmama!

We were simply awful and I honestly think "the rot" started during this period.

I remember there being carnage on here a month after JC walked because some people thought that RP was swithering/too tight fisted to sign Colin Nish before the end of the January window.



It's funny how time can alter perspective.

:agree: :wink:

[GlenrothesHibee]

Some of Collins signings for us were atrocious. It was the start of the slide to where we found ourselves last season in my opinion

[Russell The Dug]

Some of Collins signings for us were atrocious. It was the start of the slide to where we found ourselves last season in my opinion

All of them where bar none.

[hibsbollah]

Last five Hibs managers % performance (All matches, based on 3 pts a win, 1 a draw, 0 a loss, against perfect record)

JC....................... 49%
Mixu.................... 42%
Yogi.................... 38%
CC...................... 33%
PF...................... 43%

Thanks for the perspective. Folk go on about a 'bad run' making the sack inevitable, but 8 games represent a blip, probably 6 weeks of actual time. Over the period of his reign hes without doubt our most successful manager of recent times.

[jacomo]

My little brother plays for the U15's and he says that John Collins was hardly ever present at Livingston. He cared more about his Sky Sports job than working with the young lads coming through in the youth setup. Only showed his face for 2 seconds and that was in the car park driving away. He didn't even speak to the players and get to know them. Brian Welsh was a better director of football down there as he always used to come and help the young lads and all the youngsters appreciated him.

With the greatest respect, not knowing the names of all the U15s lads is hardly the biggest indictment. As DoF he would be spending time on the set up, not taking individual sessions.

And do we know if Livi were employing him on a full time basis?

[BEEJ]

All of them where bar none.
Of the ten players JC signed, only Clayton Donaldson might have had the potential to become a decent player for us.

He didn't perform during his spell at ER, though.

[Golden Bear]

Thanks for the perspective. Folk go on about a 'bad run' making the sack inevitable, but 8 games represent a blip, probably 6 weeks of actual time. Over the period of his reign hes without doubt our most successful manager of recent times.

:agree:

[Andy74]

Some of Collins signings for us were atrocious. It was the start of the slide to where we found ourselves last season in my opinion

We sold quality players and were never going to replace them with equivalent quality but you are right - before this we'd managed to get hold of players like Murphy, Shiels, Sproule, Boozy, Benji, Zemmama etc for nothing, or next to it.

We did pay out fees and decent wages for some of JCs signings and they were the start of the influx of players that we just had to pay off and ship out eventually.

[Peevemor]

With the greatest respect, not knowing the names of all the U15s lads is hardly the biggest indictment. As DoF he would be spending time on the set up, not taking individual sessions.

And do we know if Livi were employing him on a full time basis?

I remember being at a Club 86 dinner where they said that Alex Miller went to see all the 's forms' and their parents in their homes to answer any questions, explain how things worked, etc.

[ballengeich]

Thanks for the perspective. Folk go on about a 'bad run' making the sack inevitable, but 8 games represent a blip, probably 6 weeks of actual time. Over the period of his reign hes without doubt our most successful manager of recent times.

He had the advantage of taking over a better team than any of the four who followed so would have been expected to get off to a good start at least. The deterioration in the team between the League Cup final and the Scottish Cup semi-final is the most rapid collapse I've ever seen at Hibs. It seemed to me that he took Mowbray's team to the League Cup, then the rot set in when he started to bring in his own changes. Add his summer transfers and I don't know why people still rate him so highly.

[judas]

Fair play. Just heard they were away. He's a hell of a man for his resignations :greengrin

Collins is detached from reality when it comes to the rough and tumble of football management.

Good guy i am sure, good hibs man, maybe. Good manager? Not for me. This is not aimed at you btw. Just picked your post randomly.

[rcarter1]

Collins is detached from reality when it comes to the rough and tumble of football management.

Good guy i am sure, good hibs man, maybe. Good manager? Not for me. This is not aimed at you btw. Just picked your post randomly.

Have to agree. Not mangerial material -doesnt make him bad person! Fenlon is a manager, and may have work to do, but Im happy we have him over any of our managers post Mowbray (and he was lucky to inherit the GG).

[1987green]

My little brother plays for the U15's and he says that John Collins was hardly ever present at Livingston. He cared more about his Sky Sports job than working with the young lads coming through in the youth setup. Only showed his face for 2 seconds and that was in the car park driving away. He didn't even speak to the players and get to know them. Brian Welsh was a better director of football down there as he always used to come and help the young lads and all the youngsters appreciated him.

Sorry but Collins was on the training pitch every day and dictated all that went on. As for Brian Welsh not even going there

[jacomo]

He had the advantage of taking over a better team than any of the four who followed so would have been expected to get off to a good start at least. The deterioration in the team between the League Cup final and the Scottish Cup semi-final is the most rapid collapse I've ever seen at Hibs. It seemed to me that he took Mowbray's team to the League Cup, then the rot set in when he started to bring in his own changes. Add his summer transfers and I don't know why people still rate him so highly.

Nope there is a simple explanation for the drop in form after the League Cup, and it happens to many clubs who don't have a culture of winning: motivation. The players switch off a little after winning and start thinking about a holiday, even though there is a big portion of the season still to be played.

Same thing happened to Spurs a few years ago after they won the League Cup, and Birmingham ended up relegated in their cup winning season.

This is very hard for any manager to deal with.