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sesoim
27-02-2013, 10:21 PM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

Wotherspiniesta
27-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Who cares?

The Hibs manager job has been a poisoned chalice for a while now and Fenlon has shown he'scapable of progressing Hibernian into a team competing at the right end of the table.

Time we stopped questioning the manager.

Viva_Palmeiras
27-02-2013, 10:26 PM
What's yer ultimate point caller?

Vault Boy
27-02-2013, 10:28 PM
Who cares?

The Hibs manager job has been a poisoned chalice for a while now and Fenlon has shown he'scapable of progressing Hibernian into a team competing at the right end of the table.

Time we stopped questioning the manager.

:agree:

Pointless hypothetical. We don't know Fenlon's budget, and we don't know the budget of the clubs around us. Fenlon had a much weaker squad to start with than most of the other sides and has had a lot of changes to make.

SMAXXA
27-02-2013, 10:30 PM
Who cares?

The Hibs manager job has been a poisoned chalice for a while now and Fenlon has shown he'scapable of progressing Hibernian into a team competing at the right end of the table.

Time we stopped questioning the manager.

:top marks Couldnt agree more.

Hers a thought, if Fenlon had Neil Lennons budget do you think we would make top 3? :confused:

Heisenberg
27-02-2013, 10:30 PM
We had one of the worst squads last season who were getting papped on a regular basis. We are by no means the finished article and he had to basically start from scratch and build a new team from what isn't exactly a huge amount of money I'd imagine.

Northernhibee
27-02-2013, 10:34 PM
If Butcher has the budget for the Megabus down to Edinburgh, Fenlon Out Butcher In

hibs4thecup1988
27-02-2013, 10:35 PM
Load of pish. We would have lost that game last season. I just hope we take the battling in the last 5 minutes into sunday!!

Attacks on fenlon after that is incredible. His subs were spot on. And changed the game. Wasn't scared to put boozy on and he was tremendous

CallumLaidlaw
27-02-2013, 10:46 PM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

How would Neil Lennon do with our budget?

Hiber-nation
27-02-2013, 10:51 PM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

You continually sound as if you are desperate for us to fail.

SunshineOnLeith
27-02-2013, 11:09 PM
Fenlon out, Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone in.

hihohibby
27-02-2013, 11:17 PM
6th!
Our budget is higher than the teams mentioned, but not significantly higher to put us in a different league to these teams. It's all about who wants it more on the day. An extra few hundred pounds per week will not get any more out of a player, unfortunately.

cocopops1875
27-02-2013, 11:18 PM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

If I was to bet on when you make your 1st decent post when do you think that would occur ? 1 year , 2 years , 3 years or more ?

Sir David Gray
27-02-2013, 11:32 PM
No idea.

I think Fenlon would be the first person to tell you that, so far, he's not taken Hibs anywhere close to where he sees the club being and I think he sees lots of areas where improvements can be made.

He's only been in the job for just over a year and he inherited one of the worst squad of players I have ever had the misfortune of seeing in a Hibs shirt, with the club at its lowest point for many years. It couldn't have been easy for him to come in when he did and then to have been manager for the worst day in the club's history would just have topped things off.

Where we are now is a long way from where we were 8-12 months ago and there's a lot of positives to take from this season. Hopefully there will be even more positives with the cup run and maybe even a spot in Europe as well but if not then hopefully in another 8-12 months, when he will have been in the job for 2 years, we can say that we are at a level where we would expect a club of Hibs' stature to be.

It will be another big rebuilding job for him in the summer as 12 first team players are out of contract at the end of the season and just looking through that list, I'm not too sure that many of them will be here by the time the new season kicks off in August. That will mean that we will need to shape practically another new squad together, which isn't easy, but I think we've seen enough with most of his signings to know that he is capable of picking up good players.

I'm more than comfortable with having Pat Fenlon as our manager at the moment and I think he needs to have had at least 2 years in charge before we can really start to scrutinise things.

Kato
27-02-2013, 11:40 PM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

If an apple had a banana skin how often would there be fruits?

JMac
27-02-2013, 11:40 PM
Don't post often but please delete this thread. There's no need for it, he had a much worse squad than the teams around us to start with, so a slightly bigger budget was needed.

djs69
28-02-2013, 12:06 AM
I'm usually a glass half full fan, and lost count of the number of times I've backed fenlon during games and went bit OTT with other fans who were a bit too critical. Starting to have little doubts. eg, really didnt like the amount of time he spent sitting after we went 1-0 down. Lets be honest .no-one on this forum knows our budget, let alone that of other clubs but we were one of most active clubs in jan, albeit extending loans primarily, I would think we have decent budget compared to others and more than most, but it's becoming too common that we are not creative enough, put too much reliance on Leigh creating for himself and I've been more impressed with other so called lesser teams than us this season. We can't continue with the it's progress and better than last two years comments. Yes, I agree, but we need to be more creative, be more assertive in attack, have more ways to break down teams, and have options up front and ability to change things.
He has the desire and the heart, I really hope fenlon has the tactical pedigree and ability to make us a club and team we all desire. GGTTH

Borderhibbie76
28-02-2013, 12:19 AM
The last 2 home games have really concerned me too re Fenlons tactics but I was pleasantly surprised at his subs tonight, he at least showed an ability to change it which hasnt always been the case. Tho Doyle should have been on earlier!!

Bishop Hibee
28-02-2013, 12:25 AM
Top of the league.

Jones28
28-02-2013, 12:59 AM
Fenlon out - tacticalgeniouswhohasanouseforaplayerandprovidesim stantresults in

That will shut folk up :agree:

MWHIBBIES
28-02-2013, 01:05 AM
If Fenlon had the support that Adams, Butcher and Lomas had where would we be? :greengrin :take that:tin hat:

lord bunberry
28-02-2013, 01:24 AM
If Fenlon had the support that Adams, Butcher and Lomas had where would we be? :greengrin :take that:tin hat:

Ross county, inverness or st johnstone

Saorsa
28-02-2013, 01:35 AM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?I've often wondered what people like you would post about if we were doing really, really well, **** all would be my bet.

cam75
28-02-2013, 02:35 AM
No idea.

I think Fenlon would be the first person to tell you that, so far, he's not taken Hibs anywhere close to where he sees the club being and I think he sees lots of areas where improvements can be made.

He's only been in the job for just over a year and he inherited one of the worst squad of players I have ever had the misfortune of seeing in a Hibs shirt, with the club at its lowest point for many years. It couldn't have been easy for him to come in when he did and then to have been manager for the worst day in the club's history would just have topped things off.

Where we are now is a long way from where we were 8-12 months ago and there's a lot of positives to take from this season. Hopefully there will be even more positives with the cup run and maybe even a spot in Europe as well but if not then hopefully in another 8-12 months, when he will have been in the job for 2 years, we can say that we are at a level where we would expect a club of Hibs' stature to be.

It will be another big rebuilding job for him in the summer as 12 first team players are out of contract at the end of the season and just looking through that list, I'm not too sure that many of them will be here by the time the new season kicks off in August. That will mean that we will need to shape practically another new squad together, which isn't easy, but I think we've seen enough with most of his signings to know that he is capable of picking up good players.

I'm more than comfortable with having Pat Fenlon as our manager at the moment and I think he needs to have had at least 2 years in charge before we can really start to scrutinise things.
Are you Pat in the chicken dance
Spot on post
😃

Fergus52
28-02-2013, 09:23 AM
no-ones mentioned the dreaded P word yet.

EuanH78
28-02-2013, 09:32 AM
Load of pish. We would have lost that game last season. I just hope we take the battling in the last 5 minutes into sunday!!

Attacks on fenlon after that is incredible. His subs were spot on. And changed the game. Wasn't scared to put boozy on and he was tremendous

Must admit that was a courageous decision. Bringing on the mercurial Frenchman whilst he's not even registered to play. Out of the box thinking from PF just hope the SFA dont find out :wink:

SlickShoes
28-02-2013, 09:35 AM
The hilarious thing is the quoted teams are implied to be doing much better than us but in reality they are 3 points ahead at the most. I really don't think any of those managers would do a better job with hibs than fenlon is doing.

Another thing to remember is that Ross County are where they are thanks in a large part to IVAN SPROULE a player that was widely regarded as surplus to requirements by just about every hibs fan.

Football is a funny game, you can't predict it.

Stevie Reid
28-02-2013, 09:40 AM
Ross County are doing exceptionally well but it should be remembered that apart from his 6 month stint with us, Derek Adams has been their manager for 6 years.

Outside them and Celtic, of the teams above us, ICT have had their manager for 4 years and stuck with him after they were relegated; Motherwell have had McCall for a year longer than Fenlon and he took over with them in a good position after Craig Brown left for Aberdeen; St. Johnstone have had Lomas for a short time longer than we have had Fenlon, but he also took over Saints in a strong position after McInnes left for Bristol City.

Fenlon took over Hibs when we were in a terrible state and we have made giant strides this season - if we progress as much next season as we have this, we'll be in a really strong position next year.

MrSmith
28-02-2013, 09:40 AM
Fenlon out - tacticalgeniouswhohasanouseforaplayerandprovidesin stantresultswhothengotpaochedbyCeltic in

That will shut folk up :agree:

fixed! :wink:

Kato
28-02-2013, 09:45 AM
Ross County are doing exceptionally well but it should be remembered that apart from his 6 month stint with us, Derek Adams has been their manager for 6 years.

Outside them and Celtic, of the teams above us, ICT have had their manager for 4 years and stuck with him after they were relegated; Motherwell have had McCall for a year longer than Fenlon and he took over with them in a good position after Craig Brown left for Aberdeen; St. Johnstone have had Lomas for a short time longer than we have had Fenlon, but he also took over Saints in a strong position after McInnes left for Bristol City.

Fenlon took over Hibs when we were in a terrible state and we have made giant strides this season - if we progress as much next season as we have this, we'll be in a really strong position next year.

Yep. It's more than budgets that have to taken into account, it's also stability.

The Sea-gull
28-02-2013, 09:58 AM
The thread infers that Fenlon has had a significantly bigger budget than many of these teams. Don't know the facts but don't think that is the case.

Perhaps Butcher and Lomas have used their budgets slightly better than PF has as their squads have a bit more balance than ours but they started out with better squads last sumer than Fenlon did so he had a bit of ctaching up to do.

Ross Co is a different animal as their success if fostered on a close team spirit that a club of that size can manage. ICT too I suppose. You just won't get that at Hibs. We are a different club to Ross Co and ICT.

We should never be on a par with or, as is the case just now, not as good as teams like ICT, Ross Co and St Johnstone if size of crowds and income is used as a barometer. The fact that we are in the position we are in just now (albeit nowehere near as bad as it was 12 months ago) is not down to Pat Fenlon. It is down to years of mismanagement by the board.

The Sea-gull
28-02-2013, 10:11 AM
Bit harsh on criticising the OP here. He has just asked a question but I can see why some think that he is maybe having a pop at Pat Fenlon.

Is the OP really asking if we would rather have the managers of any of these clubs? For me the answer would be no. Think Terry Butcher is suited to managing teams like ICT where expectation is a bit lower. Could see him struggling to cope with the fans at Hibs. Can't stand Derek Adams and also feel he would not do well at a bigger team. If he goes to Aberdeen would not be surprised to see him last onlt a season or two. Don't really think Steve Lomas would do any better than Fenlon either.

The only other SPL manager I would maybe rather have than Fenlon are Stuart McCall and Jackie McNamara. Stuart McCall was available when Calderwood got the job and I do wonder where we would be now if we had gone for him. Jackie McNamara could turn out to be rubbish but I just get a good feeling about him and the way he comes accross.

Hiber-nation
28-02-2013, 10:14 AM
Bit harsh on criticising the OP here. He has just asked a question but I can see why some think that he is maybe having a pop at Pat Fenlon.

Is the OP really asking if we would rather have the managers of any of these clubs? For me the answer would be no. Think Terry Butcher is suited to managing teams like ICT where expectation is a bit lower. Could see him struggling to cope with the fans at Hibs. Can't stand Derek Adams and also feel he would not do well at a bigger team. If he goes to Aberdeen would not be surprised to see him last onlt a season or two. Don't really think Steve Lomas would do any better than Fenlon either.

The only other SPL manager I would maybe rather have than Fenlon are Stuart McCall and Jackie McNamara. Stuart McCall was available when Calderwood got the job and I do wonder where we would be now if we had gone for him. Jackie McNamara could turn out to be rubbish but I just get a good feeling about him and the way he comes accross.

He posts nothing but total negativity on here. That's why he's getting well deserved flak.

Part/Time Supporter
28-02-2013, 10:21 AM
The premise of the OP's point would be that Fenlon has wasted budget. As far as I can tell, the only dead wood currently in the squad (that was signed by Fenlon) is Kuqi and Kujabi. That's a pretty good strike rate when you consider that he has had to make a lot of signings since coming in.

cocopops1875
28-02-2013, 10:23 AM
Ross County are doing exceptionally well but it should be remembered that apart from his 6 month stint with us, Derek Adams has been their manager for 6 years.

Outside them and Celtic, of the teams above us, ICT have had their manager for 4 years and stuck with him after they were relegated; Motherwell have had McCall for a year longer than Fenlon and he took over with them in a good position after Craig Brown left for Aberdeen; St. Johnstone have had Lomas for a short time longer than we have had Fenlon, but he also took over Saints in a strong position after McInnes left for Bristol City.

Fenlon took over Hibs when we were in a terrible state and we have made giant strides this season - if we progress as much next season as we have this, we'll be in a really strong position next year.
All very good points mate, absolutely wasted on the OP sadly

JimBHibees
28-02-2013, 10:32 AM
The premise of the OP's point would be that Fenlon has wasted budget. As far as I can tell, the only dead wood currently in the squad (that was signed by Fenlon) is Kuqi and Kujabi. That's a pretty good strike rate when you consider that he has had to make a lot of signings since coming in.

Agree his signings in the main have IMO been very good and better than what we had.

The Sea-gull
28-02-2013, 10:42 AM
The premise of the OP's point would be that Fenlon has wasted budget. As far as I can tell, the only dead wood currently in the squad (that was signed by Fenlon) is Kuqi and Kujabi. That's a pretty good strike rate when you consider that he has had to make a lot of signings since coming in.

Yip, I'd agree. These are the only out and out utter p$sh that he has signed. Even Kujabi showed promise at times but to be fair to PF, when he identified he was a bit of a bombscare he has not been seen again, even when we have been desparate at full back.

Kuqi totally mistifies me as, unlike with Kujabi, he was brought in during the summer window when generally managers have more time to think about their signings. Can't help but feel there were better options out there at our end of the budget. Would be interested to see what Sheridan at Killie is on compared to Kuqi for example. Or Rowan Vine. Christ, Colin Nish would have been a better shout. An extra option up front could make the difference between top and bottom six this season and PF has to take responsibility for that one.

lord bunberry
28-02-2013, 10:50 AM
Must admit that was a courageous decision. Bringing on the mercurial Frenchman whilst he's not even registered to play. Out of the box thinking from PF just hope the SFA dont find out :wink:

Harris's nickname is boozy

Dashing Bob S
28-02-2013, 10:52 AM
Another way to look at it: where would the other sides be if Butcher, Adams, McCall, Brown etc had inherited Calderwood's squad?

Prawn Sandwich
28-02-2013, 10:59 AM
The problem starts at the top. Mediocrity filters all the way through the culture of the club. Mr. Petrie is a great accountant and administrator, but not motivator or leader. All things Hibs goes by him whether it be the catering invoices to who Hibs sign. He has been there too long and its time for a fresh clean shaven face.

Therefore in my humble opinion no Manager would do any better in the current circumstances.

Stevie Reid
28-02-2013, 11:03 AM
Another way to look at it: where would the other sides be if Butcher, Adams, McCall, Brown etc had inherited Calderwood's squad?

Very good question, Bob.

Saorsa
28-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Another way to look at it: where would the other sides be if Butcher, Adams, McCall, Brown etc had inherited Calderwood's squad?Stop making excuses for him, Fenlon out, Butcher, Adams, McCall, Brown ect, etc in. :agree:

CentreLine
28-02-2013, 11:15 AM
If Fenlon had the same budget as the managers at Ross Co, Inverness, Motherwell or St Johnstone, where do you think we'd be in the SPL at the moment?

PF seems to be pretty capable on a low budget, evidenced by his success in Ireland.

I think we need to give our manager five years to get the whole structure of the club moving forward. This chop and change all the time has left us a dreadful legacy.

For the record I would add Doyle to the list of signings that I don't rate. But overall I think PF has been very successful in the market we work in. His signings have been an improvement on what we had and he has been our best spotter of a deal since Red Lex.

JimBHibees
28-02-2013, 11:21 AM
Another way to look at it: where would the other sides be if Butcher, Adams, McCall, Brown etc had inherited Calderwood's squad?

An excellent and probably the most relevant point.

Keith_M
28-02-2013, 11:40 AM
The problem starts at the top. Mediocrity filters all the way through the culture of the club. Mr. Petrie is a great accountant and administrator, but not motivator or leader. All things Hibs goes by him whether it be the catering invoices to who Hibs sign. He has been there too long and its time for a fresh clean shaven face.

Therefore in my humble opinion no Manager would do any better in the current circumstances.


And there we have it. The answer to all our woes is to get a replacement that doesn't have a moustache.

I vote for Karen Brady :thumbsup:

Prawn Sandwich
28-02-2013, 03:20 PM
And there we have it. The answer to all our woes is to get a replacement that doesn't have a moustache.

I vote for Karen Brady :thumbsup:

I did say "clean shaven." :wink: