Bottom 6 - good or bad? (merged)

[DH1875]

Would it be a bad thing? I honestly can't see us finishing 2nd so would we be better off finishing 7th or 8th rather than 4th/5th or 6th. As it stands we'd be in the bottom 6 with the yams, the 2 Dundee clubs, Aberdeen and St Mirren. Much more appetizing for me than ICT, Ross County, Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone. And before anyone starts, the prize money aint that different. Only £60k a place for the middle of the table.

[Frazerbob]

Yes it would be a bad thing. Apart from anything else, we don't want the Merricks benefiting from a home Derby!

[SouthamptonHibs]

Bottom six = massive failure! We would need to look at the set up again as the manger would have failed!
I've no idea what we are building at ER but it sure is a slow process! Remember next year will be even worse as we are unlikely to have Super Leigh.

Looks like End of season party on Sunday, must win (get through to the next round even after replay)

[nonshinyfinish]

Would it be a bad thing? I honestly can't see us finishing 2nd so would we be better off finishing 7th or 8th rather than 4th/5th or 6th. As it stands we'd be in the bottom 6 with the yams, the 2 Dundee clubs, Aberdeen and St Mirren. Much more appetizing for me than ICT, Ross County, Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone. And before anyone starts, the prize money aint that different. Only £60k a place for the middle of the table.

Why is 2nd the only thing to aim at? Rather have at shot at Euro qualification than donate some liquid capital to the Gorgie unwashed in the lower reaches of the table.

[sesoim]

Would it be a bad thing? I honestly can't see us finishing 2nd so would we be better off finishing 7th or 8th rather than 4th/5th or 6th. As it stands we'd be in the bottom 6 with the yams, the 2 Dundee clubs, Aberdeen and St Mirren. Much more appetizing for me than ICT, Ross County, Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone. And before anyone starts, the prize money aint that different. Only £60k a place for the middle of the table.


Don't you care about getting into Europe? And you get a lot more for finishing 2nd than you do for finishing in the bottom six. And then there's the tv money we would miss out on, because who wants to watch bottom six also rans on the tv, especially when they play as bad football as Hibs do most of the time?

So yes, it would be a bad thing. But then again, if it means we get rid of Fenlon, maybe it would be for the best in the long run - there's plenty of good managers looking for a job at the moment.

[Dashing Bob S]

Bottom six would be poor as we'd be playing poorer sides. Just because they're ***** no reason we have to be.

[hibeesjoe]

Another absolutely sh@* season if we are bottom six. We should really be marching away with 2nd if we had played any sorts of consistent football.

[DH1875]

Am I missing something though? There's no Champions league this year for 2nd place and only 2 places in the league have a UEFA place. The other one goes to the Scottish cup. So finishing 4th gets you nothing :confused:.

Scrap that, goal for Hibs 1-1 :thumbsup:.

[mad giraffe]

I can understand the point that what is the difference between 10th and 3rd when a toss of a coin is all that is between teams. The split struggles to motivate as there is not that much to play for. One euro game (and likely defeat against Transylvania part timers) apart there is no huge benefit.
However, pride in our football club should dictate we aim for the top at all times .
Plus I don't think we should give them a final (yes THE LAST EVER) derby at the peedodrome!

[mad giraffe]

Another absolutely sh@* season if we are bottom six. We should really be marching away with 2nd if we had played any sorts of consistent football.

Herts could be in top 6 , end up with less points than Dundee following the inevitable points deduction. But if in top half they can't relegated??

[Hainan Hibs]

A higher league placing means more money.

[DH1875]

A higher league placing means more money.


Not much though. Only £60k per place.

[GoldenEagle]

Friday 5th April 2013

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Inverness CT (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/inverness-caledonian-thistle)v
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Saturday 6th April 2013


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15:00


How can you have top 6 final league standings to be decided with three staggered kick off times...v poor by SPL.

[lyonhibs]

Would it be a bad thing? I honestly can't see us finishing 2nd so would we be better off finishing 7th or 8th rather than 4th/5th or 6th. As it stands we'd be in the bottom 6 with the yams, the 2 Dundee clubs, Aberdeen and St Mirren. Much more appetizing for me than ICT, Ross County, Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone. And before anyone starts, the prize money aint that different. Only £60k a place for the middle of the table.

:confused::confused::confused:

Just read that statement back to yourself out loud a couple of times. Then take into account that we didn't have the 50-60k required to get Craig here now, as opposed to the end of the season.

Absurd statement IMO

[blackpoolhibs]

Bottom six = massive failure! We would need to look at the set up again as the manger would have failed!
I've no idea what we are building at ER but it sure is a slow process! Remember next year will be even worse as we are unlikely to have Super Leigh.

Looks like End of season party on Sunday, must win (get through to the next round even after replay)

I bet party's round your house are a blast. :rolleyes:

[DC_Hibs]

Dime Bar?

[LioNeilMessi]

Bottom 6 games are the worst: players don't care, atmosphere is generally rubbish and the crowds are down. For the first couple of post split matches, at the very least, we would have something to play for if we make 6th or higher.

[mrdependable]

60k a place is worth making a bit of effort for surely...2 places will pay for a decent players wages for a season

[SouthamptonHibs]

I bet party's round your house are a blast. :rolleyes:


The parties are wild mate! I'm am a party animal!

I take it your disagree with my statement? Bottom 6 is defo failure i can't see it any other way!

[The_Todd]

Why would anyone want to finish bottom six? Ok, the leagues flipped upside down this year and we might get bigger games in the last round of matches and another derby, but then we lose prize money for every league place we slip, we can still qualify for europe in third and just for the sake of pride.

And despite our fairly poor run we're still only 4 points off 2nd anyway.

[Russell The Dug]

If we're bottom 6 for the third year in a row there will be less money there, less fans there and less everything.

Fenlon sacked of bottom 6. Complete failure.

[Russell The Dug]

I bet party's round your house are a blast. :rolleyes:


Heard a wee bit different down your house tho bud ;-)

[MacBean]

60k for a place is about £1150 per week to sign new players with...

[chrisski33]

Would it be a bad thing? I honestly can't see us finishing 2nd so would we be better off finishing 7th or 8th rather than 4th/5th or 6th. As it stands we'd be in the bottom 6 with the yams, the 2 Dundee clubs, Aberdeen and St Mirren. Much more appetizing for me than ICT, Ross County, Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone. And before anyone starts, the prize money aint that different. Only £60k a place for the middle of the table.

are u serious? Have some pride id rather finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5 or 6th than finishing in the bottom 6. Finishing in top 6 wud help bring better quality players in, possibly keeping players and a better reputation. Accepting finishing in the bottom 6 is just cr@p

[Sir David Gray]

With the way the league is going this season, if we get into the top six, we're likely to still be in with a shout of finishing 2nd and actually have something to play for in the final five matches.

If we end up in the bottom six then we'll have absolutely nothing to play for during the last five matches and the season will be over. Plus, as others have already pointed out, if they also finish in the bottom six then we're effectively giving them a bumper pay day from having another derby at Tynecastle.

That should be avoided at all costs.

[matty_f]

Dime Bar?

:tee hee:

[blackpoolhibs]

The parties are wild mate! I'm am a party animal!

I take it your disagree with my statement? Bottom 6 is defo failure i can't see it any other way!


If we're bottom 6 for the third year in a row there will be less money there, less fans there and less everything.

Fenlon sacked of bottom 6. Complete failure.


Heard a wee bit different down your house tho bud ;-)

Both of you are too miserable to have a good time at any party, in fact i'd bet you were moaning about the goal we conceded against kilmarnock at hampden that much the party passed you by. :rolleyes:

[Hainan Hibs]

Not much though. Only £60k per place.

Can add up to a significant number if it's the difference between 5th and 8th for example.

[The Sea-gull]

60K could go towards a nominal transfer fee for someone or a year's, or part of a year, salary for a player. No way we are better off in the bottom six.

Say we do finish bottom 6 and get home games v Aberdeen and Dundee United. OK, they would bring more fans than the likes of ICT, Ross Co etc but they'll not bring that many for what would be meaningless games. Plus the home crowds won't turn out for bottom 6 games which mean little. So, for Aberdeen at home in the bottom 6, you might get a crowd of around 8k and for Dundee United around 7-7.5k.

If we were playing ICT, Ross County or whoever and chasing European places with the games being pivotal, you might get around 10 or 11k at least coming to ER.

I remember thinking a while back that as long as PF made us competive this season and pushing for the top 6 rather than fighting relegation then this could be seen as progress. Whatever happens now, he has achieved this. I don't think he deserves massive pats on the back if we don't make the top 6 though, it just means he keeps his job for next season.

The way the SPL is you don't need to be Sir Alex Ferguson to turn a bottom 2 side into a top 2 side in the space of a season so asking PF to get us into the top 6 this season was not a tall order. If he fails to deliver this then he doesn't deserve the sack but he certainly doesn't deserve plaudits for another bottom 6 finish.

[blackpoolhibs]

Imagine the scenario, the gimps are deducted 18 points and are bottom. Last day of the season they need to beat Dundee to stay up as long as St Mirren lose, St Mirren are at home to Hibs.

Would you accept us playing a weakened side, especially if we are in the cup final? :wink:

[DarrenSQH]

I dont think that Scenario is right, why would st mirren be involved?

[Purple & Green]

So say....

St Mirren at home to Hearts, Hearts only needing a draw although a defeat would need a massive goal difference turnaround and St Mirren score with SEVEN minutes to go through oh I dunno David Van Zanten

and we lose Seven Nil to Dundee to keep Dundee up, and send Hearts down. Hearts not viable in relegation and get liquidated.

Dreadful scenario. Got to hope it never happens.

[LioNeilMessi]

I dont think that Scenario is right, why would st mirren be involved?

I think it's meant that if they had to beat Saints (random team from bottom six), and Dundee had to lose to us for them to stay up.

[Beefster]

I'd rather see Hearts go down and Hibs finish in the top six personally. Throw away, potentially, hundreds of thousands of pounds for a wee scenario that is unlikely to come true? No ta.

[PeeJay]

Imagine the scenario, the gimps are deducted 18 points and are bottom. Last day of the season they need to beat Dundee to stay up as long as St Mirren lose, St Mirren are at home to Hibs.

Would you accept us playing a weakened side, especially if we are in the cup final? :wink:

... seem to remember a Hibs.net thread on sporting integrity extending several hundred pages - are you now suggesting sporting integrity can be adjusted to suit, like when it benefits us? Is that not a slippery slope to be on?

Wait a minute, ... we have a weaker team?:cool2:

[jacomo]

... seem to remember a Hibs.net thread on sporting integrity extending several hundred pages - are you now suggesting sporting integrity can be adjusted to suit, like when it benefits us? Is that not a slippery slope to be on?

Wait a minute, ... we have a weaker team?:cool2:

A football manager can choose any team he likes from his first team squad, depending on circumstances and priorities. That's what a squad is for - not a sporting integrity issue for me. Deliberately throwing a game is wrong, but fielding a weakened team is not.

Top six for me and watch Hearts nightmare come true from afar, please.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont think that Scenario is right, why would st mirren be involved?

Its my scenario. :wink:

[Stevie Reid]

Bottom six = massive failure! We would need to look at the set up again as the manger would have failed!
I've no idea what we are building at ER but it sure is a slow process! Remember next year will be even worse as we are unlikely to have Super Leigh.

Looks like End of season party on Sunday, must win (get through to the next round even after replay)


Fenlon sacked of bottom 6. Complete failure.

Whilst finishing in the bottom 6 would be a big disappointment, it could not be described as a massive failure in a league at tight as the SPL this season.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whilst finishing in the bottom 6 would be a big disappointment, it could not be described as a massive failure in a league at tight as the SPL this season.

You have to understand those 2 are just a couple of defeats away from suicide. :rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

the split is irrelevant to me in terms of success IMO anything below 4th is a failure however coming from such a poor place this term allowances should be made but having said that to slip down league after playing so many games would be very dissapointing.

[Franck Stanton]

Now before everyone blows a gasket and starts decrying me and making out I am a Yam, [ agh even the thought of it is disgusting] just think for a moment [please] before reading this .................................

Would it benefit us NOT to make the top 6 this year [calm doon and keep reading].

Lets look at this from a financial point of view, the teams CURRENTLY in top 6 apart from ourselves, Celtic, Motherwell, ICT, Ross County.

Now assuming we play Celtic away, [ most likely but not definate], NONE of the other teams have a big away following and bring hardly any away fans to Easter Road,- we, as Hibs fans don't exactly turn out in big numbers for any of them other than Celtic game [ok will conceed perhaps the Motherwell game also], Chances are we will be away to either[ or even both] of the highland sides so another costly trip[s] for Club and supporters.


Being BOTTOM 6 - If we swapped places with , say St J/Dun Unt - leaves The Vermin, [again not to say that game will be at the PBS, not unheard of that we have travelled to 3 away games v same teams in past [ chance SFA computer will be kind to us and give us home advantage to make up for the ref/assistants incompetence yesterday , I can but hope], The rest of the teams carry more of an away support than the top 6 [ok 4 of].

As for qualification for Europe - [to be honest, are we really ready for that challenge ?] IF, we beat Falkirk in Semi of S/C and Celtic do likewise to D/Unt - then we can all be looking out our passports anyway.

Now I am not advocating we deliberately sabotage our chances, merely pointing out that not making Top 6 wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world some posters on here make it out to be.

Discuss...........

[hibs4thecup1988]

I'd agree. However the celtic game would be at Easter road.

I'd love to get a chance to beat them after yesterday.

I can't see us getting top 6 unless we can get 4 points from motherwell and Celtic anyways tbh

[hibby rae]

Bear in mind the higher the league finish the more prize money we are awarded at the end of the season.

[DarrenSQH]

Celtic would be a home game.

Therefore we make more money. Top 6 games are more likely for TV money too. Prizemoney is alot more too.

[TheFamous1875]

Bear in mind the higher the league finish the more prize money we are awarded at the end of the season.

That's my main thought. If we DON'T make the top 6, there may be fans who see the season as a lost cause i.e - not turning up to games.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Franck Stanton]

Bear in mind the higher the league finish the more prize money we are awarded at the end of the season.


Good point mate, but is it really that much of a difference between 6th and 7th ? Don't know myself but can it really be that much ?

As for the Celtic game being at E/R - Really ? Nothing is definate, not unusual for a team to play opposition 3 times away in one season, SFA make fixtures after split finalised and quite often pay no attention to what has happened prior to split when it comes to home/away. May well be at E/R but not set in stone.

[Hibercelona]

I'd agree. However the celtic game would be at Easter road.

I'd love to get a chance to beat them after yesterday.

I can't see us getting top 6 unless we can get 4 points from motherwell and Celtic anyways tbh

I can't see why we can't. Our record against Motherwell isn't too shabby and Celtic have failed to beat us yet this season.

[Beefster]

No-one was saying it would be good to finish in the bottom six until it was fairly probable that we would finish in the bottom six.

[The Sea-gull]

I'd agree. However the celtic game would be at Easter road.

I'd love to get a chance to beat them after yesterday.

I can't see us getting top 6 unless we can get 4 points from motherwell and Celtic anyways tbh

What about the game v ICT at ER on 30th March? We could get 4 points from ICT and Motherwell, lose to Celtic and still make top 6.

Not beyond us.

[Franck Stanton]

No-one was saying it would be good to finish in the bottom six until it was fairly probable that we would finish in the bottom six.


Dont think this statement is correct Beefster, certainly not by myself as personally think we will be top 6, however, on seeing just who are in bottom 6 just now - teams that normally would be considered "Big Clubs" - [ Aberdeen/Dun Unt/them reluctantly have to include them as a big club-support -wise anyway] , and carry large travelling support is only reason for my original post, - certainly not because there is a chance we wont make top 6. Take 1 point at Fir Park, 3 at home to ICT - very acheviable - and then the result of the Cetic game at E/R wouldn't ,IMO come into equasion of whether or not we end up Top/Bottom 6.

[Keith_M]

Bad!


FACT, ENDOFF, etc

[Elephant Stone]

Bad. A derby wouldn't make up for the other meaningless games and I'd rather be challenging for 2nd/3rd spot. I could do with a break from derbies anyway, they are boring me to death.

[hibby rae]

Good point mate, but is it really that much of a difference between 6th and 7th ? Don't know myself but can it really be that much ?

As for the Celtic game being at E/R - Really ? Nothing is definate, not unusual for a team to play opposition 3 times away in one season, SFA make fixtures after split finalised and quite often pay no attention to what has happened prior to split when it comes to home/away. May well be at E/R but not set in stone.


I believe there could be a difference of about £80,000, which come the next transfer window could prove to be vital. A higher finish is also more impressive when trying to tempt future signings as it shows the progress we've made and after the last couple of seasons we deserve to see the team finish highly. Also, if the game was at PBS it's more vital cash in their coffers. Let them rot.

[Pete]

It would be an improvement on last year but still a bit of a let down. A derby would be good but the Saviles would benefit financially.

Six points from the next two games please. That should do it!

[3pm]

There's nothing good about it.

What's next season's expectation if we finish bottom six?

[JohnStephens91]

Bottom 6 would be bad. We are due 3 home games, having only had 2 after the split last season. Those 3 are likely to be Ross County, Motherwell and Celtic and away would be St Johnstone and Inverness if we got the top 6. The Celtic game is the cash cow there and the top 6 provides the team with the chance of european football and a sold out Easter Road as well as increased money for the higher position.

Bottom 6 would be Dundee away, Hearts away, St Mirren at home, Aberdeen at home and either Dundee United at home or Killie away. No thanks, top 6 for me.

[lucky]

Failure to make the top 6 is exactly that a failure. Which can only bring pressure on the manager. We have made some progress this year but the SPL must be the worst it's ever been. Even allowing how poor we were last year the top 6 should have been a minimum expectation for us. This year the SPL does not have the Huns, but also the worst Hearts team in the last 10 years. Also the fact that Aberdeen and Dundee united are also very poor makes failure to reach the top 6 unacceptable. The only saving grace is we have a good chance to get to the cup final again but how many of us are really that confident we will win the bloody thing.

[hibs4thecup1988]

Top 6 is where we should want to be no doubt. But I'm sure if we finished 7th and won the cup that would be a lot more beneficial.

But I do agree we can still make it and feel like a bit of a div for my last post If I'm honest lol

[PeeJay]

Bottom six when only one half of the old firm is in the league and our city rivals are "almost" gone?

An inability to keep pace with Ross County and Inverness and St Johnstone - now that really would be embarrassing Fenlon: so make sure it doesn't happen!

Wouldn't be bad: it would be disastrous!

[danhibees1875]

No.

[LioNeilMessi]

Nope, top 6 is better. Since we're not in a relegation battle, I would rather not use my ST and do something fun rather than watching a 7th v 8th match. Those games are terrible and the players already have one eye on their holidays :rolleyes:

Although, should we make the final, I'd be there for the raffle game Rod puts on. Good last year :greengrin

[hibs4thecup1988]

Thing is if its bottom 6 and we make that final then it will be final places up for grabs. So the games won't neccessarily be boring.

And hey...we make the final...anyone that attends all games after the split at Easter road and away...get put into a draw fir a final ticket after the 2 per ST ;)

[easty]

top 6 has to be the target. if anyone at Hibs believes that bottom 6 would "be better" then I'd not be happy. We're a professional football club, we should be aiming to do as well as we possibly can.

[SouthamptonHibs]

If we don't make top 6 then the league season is a failure. After the past few years and with Rangers going bust it would be a disgrace if we didn't make it. Our league cup campaign was shocking 0/10 getting beat by QoS. Scottish cup is 10/10 so far with us having a great chance of getting to the final. The referees have`t helped us much with some disgusting decisions especially yesterday and last week v united, but we haven't won enough games and have let ourselves down a few times by not beating Ross County, dropping points to Dundee and drawing with the yams three times.

Hopefully we`ll make it. 6points will see us through hail hail

[Dibben]

The only 'good' that good come out of bottom 6 is the chance that we could relegate them if they get deducted points...

[kentao]

With the amount of soft decision given against us this season i wouldn't blame the team if we didn't get top 6. I am just glad we are a completely different team from last season and we have a man at the helm who is capable of picking a player. Its all to play for now and hopefully we can get some decisions go our way for once. Really looking forward to the next couple of weeks should be an exciting finish to the season.

GGTTH

[Eyrie]

The only 'good' that good come out of bottom 6 is the chance that we could relegate them if they get deducted points...

I'l gladly forego that "good" in favour of us making the top six and letting Dundee beat the Yams 2-0 on the final day of the season to relegate them on goal difference.

[Hillsidehibby]

Is it just me or would anyone prefer finishing in the bottom six?

Games against Aberdeen, Killie and another chance to give the ****s the doing that they are due, potentially bigger crowds than against the likes of ICT, Ross County and STJ.

I think Europe will be covered by beating Falkirk.

[Taz_hibee]

Don't disagree with this, although would be disappointed not to be in top 6 don't think it's as bad as some might think as long as we beat Falkirk then would be guaranteed Europe if Tic beat Utd

[Eyrie]

Is it just me or would anyone prefer finishing in the bottom six?

Games against Aberdeen, Killie and another chance to give the ****s the doing that they are due, potentially bigger crowds than against the likes of ICT, Ross County and STJ.

I think Europe will be covered by beating Falkirk.
Againt that there is much better prize money for being sixth (at worst) compared to seventh (at best) and we won't get a home game with the Yams - it'll be a visit to your doctor for innoculations before a trip to the PBS to bail them out.

[Phil MaGlass]

To be honest i think we will be 8th come the split.atleast we will have another derby.

[GlenrothesHibee]

Im not too concerned about Europe. Pumped out by a team whos name is hard to pronounce in the first round. Id rather try and win this cup as a priority and then make sure the mutants havn't beaten us for over a year. Top 6 would be an added bonus, one which i wasnt expecting at the start of the season.

[Captain Trips]

There is no top or bottom 6 for me there is a top 4 that I expect a club of the stature and infrastructure to be in season after season and anything less IMO is a failed season. PF had to make a fair few changes so top 4 was tough but acceptable to miss out on with a 4th next term a must.

Halfway through this term though top 4 looked good even though we may well finish higher than I thought originally it is still dissapointing if we do not make top 4 after showing promise for quite a while.

[mcfly]

Can't believe the title of this thread.

Of course bottom 6 is bad.

[TheReg!]

Going off the last few seasons then top of the bottom six would be acceptable IMHO and IF we get to the Cup final! We have to remember last season to see how far we have come since then, Pat in his own words is looking for stability this season I.e be hard to beat, I think he has pretty much done this so far, he will build on this for next season hopefully playing a more attacking style and thus getting us into the top six. It's a going to be a long transition BUT we have to stick with it and follow it through to reap the benefits.