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Wellbankhibby
12-02-2013, 06:00 PM
I know I am about to receive pelters from some people on this site and I will get the usual suspects saying that I am a Yam as has happened previously but I wanted to voice my feelings and gauge what other Hibees think. let me first say there has been a slight improvement this season but to be honest it couldnt be much worse than last season. We did well to reach the final and thousands of us left the national stadium disapointed and disgusted as we didnt turn up.
Yes Craig Thompson did not help us at all awarding the penalty that never was. Pat fenlon has had to rebuild the team and this does take time but some of our performances have been shocking, we were completely outplayed by St Johnstone and it could easily have been six or seven. My point is we are no longer playing attractive football, this is what we were brought up on. whatever past results were against the yams they could never say they were a better football side than us. yes they were probably harder and had players who would often bully us into losing the games but we always had the flare players. I think Pat Fenlon has tried to sign players that would do a good job for us and I believe John Daley was going to sign a pre contract but was only offerred a one year deal. I understand the need to be prudent with money but our crowds will continue to dwindle unless we get a winning team on the park. It used to be enjoyable watching Hibs play fast flowing attractive attacking football but im afraid that is gone now and we are back to getting bullied but now it is the so called smaller teams doing this to us. Whatever anyone says the Board MUST INVEST in the playing squad. The way things are at this moment in time only lead me to one conclusion we are finishing bottom six and Im afraid to say nearer the bottom that the top. Yes we have ground out some decent results but we are no longer the great footballing side that we all love to see. What is wrong with us. :confused:

Baldy Foghorn
12-02-2013, 06:11 PM
I know I am about to receive pelters from some people on this site and I will get the usual suspects saying that I am a Yam as has happened previously but I wanted to voice my feelings and gauge what other Hibees think. let me first say there has been a slight improvement this season but to be honest it couldnt be much worse than last season. We did well to reach the final and thousands of us left the national stadium disapointed and disgusted as we didnt turn up.
Yes Craig Thompson did not help us at all awarding the penalty that never was. Pat fenlon has had to rebuild the team and this does take time but some of our performances have been shocking, we were completely outplayed by St Johnstone and it could easily have been six or seven. My point is we are no longer playing attractive football, this is what we were brought up on. whatever past results were against the yams they could never say they were a better football side than us. yes they were probably harder and had players who would often bully us into losing the games but we always had the flare players. I think Pat Fenlon has tried to sign players that would do a good job for us and I believe John Daley was going to sign a pre contract but was only offerred a one year deal. I understand the need to be prudent with money but our crowds will continue to dwindle unless we get a winning team on the park. It used to be enjoyable watching Hibs play fast flowing attractive attacking football but im afraid that is gone now and we are back to getting bullied but now it is the so called smaller teams doing this to us. Whatever anyone says the Board MUST INVEST in the playing squad. The way things are at this moment in time only lead me to one conclusion we are finishing bottom six and Im afraid to say nearer the bottom that the top. Yes we have ground out some decent results but we are no longer the great footballing side that we all love to see. What is wrong with us. :confused:

The Board have always said they will invest in the playing staff, from money generated from Season Ticket sales. This won't change anytime in the future........

Northern Hibby
12-02-2013, 06:19 PM
I know I am about to receive pelters from some people on this site and I will get the usual suspects saying that I am a Yam as has happened previously but I wanted to voice my feelings and gauge what other Hibees think. let me first say there has been a slight improvement this season but to be honest it couldnt be much worse than last season. We did well to reach the final and thousands of us left the national stadium disapointed and disgusted as we didnt turn up.
Yes Craig Thompson did not help us at all awarding the penalty that never was. Pat fenlon has had to rebuild the team and this does take time but some of our performances have been shocking, we were completely outplayed by St Johnstone and it could easily have been six or seven. My point is we are no longer playing attractive football, this is what we were brought up on. whatever past results were against the yams they could never say they were a better football side than us. yes they were probably harder and had players who would often bully us into losing the games but we always had the flare players. I think Pat Fenlon has tried to sign players that would do a good job for us and I believe John Daley was going to sign a pre contract but was only offerred a one year deal. I understand the need to be prudent with money but our crowds will continue to dwindle unless we get a winning team on the park. It used to be enjoyable watching Hibs play fast flowing attractive attacking football but im afraid that is gone now and we are back to getting bullied but now it is the so called smaller teams doing this to us. Whatever anyone says the Board MUST INVEST in the playing squad. The way things are at this moment in time only lead me to one conclusion we are finishing bottom six and Im afraid to say nearer the bottom that the top. Yes we have ground out some decent results but we are no longer the great footballing side that we all love to see. What is wrong with us. :confused:


if we get the "fast flowing" & "attacking" bit right I couldn't care about "flair" or "attractive" football, I watched some vids of the Mowbary era and the 1 thing that stood out was we attacked with pace, ok defence was lacking at times but who said sometimes the beast form of defence is ATTACK!!

patch1875
12-02-2013, 06:21 PM
I'm sure our yearly clear out and rebuilding will keep working wonders.

Northern Hibby
12-02-2013, 06:31 PM
I'm sure our yearly clear out and rebuilding will keep working wonders.

No clear out, 4 managers many many many different players same issues 1 single common denominator EAST MAINS

proud_and_green
12-02-2013, 06:35 PM
if we get the "fast flowing" & "attacking" bit right I couldn't care about "flair" or "attractive" football, I watched some vids of the Mowbary era and the 1 thing that stood out was we attacked with pace, ok defence was lacking at times but who said sometimes the beast form of defence is ATTACK!!

None of players appear able to play a quick pass. I watched for this last night and there was no pass that didn't start or finish with a minimum of two touches. That slowed us down and allowed st J to get in about us. That's partly about lack of off the ball movement but also anticipation but also skill and confidence
Bloody frustrating and murder to watch.

basehibby
12-02-2013, 06:38 PM
I know I am about to receive pelters from some people on this site and I will get the usual suspects saying that I am a Yam as has happened previously but I wanted to voice my feelings and gauge what other Hibees think. let me first say there has been a slight improvement this season but to be honest it couldnt be much worse than last season. We did well to reach the final and thousands of us left the national stadium disapointed and disgusted as we didnt turn up.
Yes Craig Thompson did not help us at all awarding the penalty that never was. Pat fenlon has had to rebuild the team and this does take time but some of our performances have been shocking, we were completely outplayed by St Johnstone and it could easily have been six or seven. My point is we are no longer playing attractive football, this is what we were brought up on. whatever past results were against the yams they could never say they were a better football side than us. yes they were probably harder and had players who would often bully us into losing the games but we always had the flare players. I think Pat Fenlon has tried to sign players that would do a good job for us and I believe John Daley was going to sign a pre contract but was only offerred a one year deal. I understand the need to be prudent with money but our crowds will continue to dwindle unless we get a winning team on the park. It used to be enjoyable watching Hibs play fast flowing attractive attacking football but im afraid that is gone now and we are back to getting bullied but now it is the so called smaller teams doing this to us. Whatever anyone says the Board MUST INVEST in the playing squad. The way things are at this moment in time only lead me to one conclusion we are finishing bottom six and Im afraid to say nearer the bottom that the top. Yes we have ground out some decent results but we are no longer the great footballing side that we all love to see. What is wrong with us. :confused:

Not going to give you pelters at all for what is a considered post. I share your concerns that a (continuing) lack of invetsment on the park has us on a downward spiral whereby fans are staying away because of eye bleeding football - leading to decreasing revenues - leading to less spent on the squad - leading to more eye bleeding football etc.

I've been resolute in my support of Fenlon but have been dismayed at some of the "football" on display recently. I'd hoped for some improvement with the additions of Done and Robertson but on last night's evidence they may not be able to bring enough to the table to make much difference (we'll see).

The buck ultimately stops with Fenlon, but the holders of the purse strings have to take a share of responsibility for where we currently are if rumours are true of successive failures to land first choice targets. They are evidently desperate to avoid another loss making season, but a reluctance spend enough to recruit players that will actually make the difference could backfire if fans start voting with their feet in greater numbers (see Aberdeen for example).

PeeJay
12-02-2013, 06:39 PM
No clear out, 4 managers many many many different players same issues 1 single common denominator EAST MAINS

Time we put the myth of everything hinging on the introduction of proper training facilities in East Mains to bed surely? The common denominator you are looking for lies elsewhere I feel, it stretches further back than East Mains ...

Golden Bear
12-02-2013, 06:41 PM
No clear out, 4 managers many many many different players same issues 1 single common denominator EAST MAINS

It's not East Mains that is the problem but it could be the way it is utilised.

PeeJay
12-02-2013, 06:42 PM
It's not East Mains that is the problem but it could be the way it is utilised.

Think you could be on to something there.. :greengrin

Northern Hibby
12-02-2013, 06:48 PM
It's not East Mains that is the problem but it could be the way it is utilised.

ok that's kinda what I was implying

:hide:

JollyGreenGiant
12-02-2013, 06:57 PM
The thing that annoys me, is that the board do invest more in the team than most other SPL teams.

We should always be regularly beating and finishing above the likes of Motherwell, St.Johnstone, Inverness, Ross County, St.Mirren and Killie etc, as we spend loads more on playing staff. But sadly, this is not the case!

jeffers
12-02-2013, 07:04 PM
Threads like this continue to crop up about lack of investment and some underlying deep rooted problem at Hibs. Personally I don't see it. In the past I'd like to have seen more of the money from the golden generation invested in the playing squad, but that money was used elsewhere. We spend what we can afford to spend.

To me it all boils down to appointing the right manager and let him use the funds at his disposal (which are better than three quarters of the league.) I don't for a minute think Rod selects players, runs training or sets out match day tactics. We get the right manager and he does his job properly and the complasints about lack of investment and deep rooted problems will fade. My concern (although he still hasd my support) is if Pat Fenlon is the right manager.

Hibercelona
12-02-2013, 07:06 PM
Lack of investment isn't the issue. The Hibs squad gets plenty of investment in comparison to the majority of other clubs in the league.

We out spend clubs like St Johnstone, Ross County and Inverness. The reason they're better is because they have a board that makes better overall decisions that benefits the team that's put out onto the park.

People can laud our new stand and our state of the art training facilities all they want, but what good is a new stand if that stadium never gets close to full? And what good is a state of the art training complex, when it clearly isn't benefiting the fitness levels of our players?

I often see it being said on here that the players we sign simply aren't good enough. I don't agree with that. I think they are good enough for this level, but they're nowhere near as fit as they should be.

Zondervan
12-02-2013, 07:07 PM
The Board have always said they will invest in the playing staff, from money generated from Season Ticket sales. This won't change anytime in the future........

Is it not the case that the Board has invested in the playing staff; it just happens that a succession of managers have squandered the monies on 2nd-rate players? This, in my opinion, includes Fenlon based on his permanent signings made to date.

Will be interesting to see how many current Hibs players are freed in the summer.

Also, I believe there are something like 120 players out of contract in the SPL. With the exception of the Players Celtic are interested in (if any) we should be able to offer deals to the best of the rest on medium/long-term contracts, rather than relying on loan deals or signing below-average players from England, Ireland or elsewhere.

truehibernian
12-02-2013, 07:10 PM
The problems at Hibs are shared amongst every other SPL club - none are finding any level of consistency at all. Aberdeen are much like Hibs at present and are finding it tough going, yet they were banging goals in for fun early season. Dundee Utd faltered and are finding their feet after getting a new manager who appears to want the game played with tempo and pace. Motherwell although second lost at the weekend and Inverness are on a wee run of defeats too.

Pat Fenlon needs at least 2 or 3 more windows - and needs to offer our youth a chance. It worries me that he is not giving Ross a start for example, when Doyler can't hit a barn door from 6 yards at present. It worries me that he continued with Wotherspoon when Alex Harris, for me, is a far better player although untested. Jordan Forster deserves a chance when McPake is out too - that lad would stick his head on a brick if it landed in the box, he's tough as nails. These kids deserve a chance and we are safe from relegation - give them a try Pat. There are enough experienced pros in the side and squad to talk them through games.

Last night for example, when 3-0 down and clearly the game away from us - why not give Forster half an hour at right back rather than put a diminutive left sided midfielder there ? That was a 'McCann to centre half' moment for me - utterly bizarre.

Fife-Hibee
12-02-2013, 07:29 PM
Lack of investment isn't the issue. The Hibs squad gets plenty of investment in comparison to the majority of other clubs in the league.

We out spend clubs like St Johnstone, Ross County and Inverness. The reason they're better is because they have a board that makes better overall decisions that benefits the team that's put out onto the park.

People can laud our new stand and our state of the art training facilities all they want, but what good is a new stand if that stadium never gets close to full? And what good is a state of the art training complex, when it clearly isn't benefiting the fitness levels of our players?

I often see it being said on here that the players we sign simply aren't good enough. I don't agree with that. I think they are good enough for this level, but they're nowhere near as fit as they should be.

I agree with this !

Captain Trips
12-02-2013, 08:13 PM
No clear out, 4 managers many many many different players same issues 1 single common denominator EAST MAINS

Mediocre to bad managers signing mediocre to bad players unfortunatly thats what the problem has been over last few years. Training center is irrelevant other than being an OTT facility for us in terms of size original cost and running costs that is the only impact East Mains has for me.

Fergos
12-02-2013, 08:17 PM
Lack of investment isn't the issue. The Hibs squad gets plenty of investment in comparison to the majority of other clubs in the league.

We out spend clubs like St Johnstone, Ross County and Inverness. The reason they're better is because they have a board that makes better overall decisions that benefits the team that's put out onto the park.

People can laud our new stand and our state of the art training facilities all they want, but what good is a new stand if that stadium never gets close to full? And what good is a state of the art training complex, when it clearly isn't benefiting the fitness levels of our players?

I often see it being said on here that the players we sign simply aren't good enough. I don't agree with that. I think they are good enough for this level, but they're nowhere near as fit as they should be.

Agree with this. Lends itself to the aforementioned East Mains and how it's utilised topic.

Outfougt and outmuscled by an energetic and fit Saints midfield last night as we usually are no matter who we play in there.

Puzzling that we have so many midfielders and it doesn't make any difference. Acknowledge that it's early days for Roberstson but he was poor last night and clearly not match fit.

The lack of pace and creative forward thought has been an issue in our midfield all season, whatever formation and players ŵe play. Whatever we do at EM isn't addressing the issue.

Beefster
12-02-2013, 08:32 PM
I'm sure our yearly clear out and rebuilding will keep working wonders.

Absolutely. Keeping the players who aren't good enough is definitely the answer.

Hiberniankb
12-02-2013, 08:34 PM
I miss the old east stand

joebakerforever
12-02-2013, 08:48 PM
This might make uncomfortable reading but I reckon the clearout that is needed is of those involved in the scouting and youth development side.

Look at the number of promising youngsters the Yams are now blooding through necessity.

Likewise on the loan side they bring in quality youngsters in Wilson & N'Goo, whereas we have brought in Done & Robertson who look distinctly second rate.

If there was an award for the Scouting Lemon of the season, Hibs would win this hands down for bringing in Shefki Kuqi, who amazingly, is still on the books.

Hibercelona
12-02-2013, 08:55 PM
Absolutely. Keeping the players who aren't good enough is definitely the answer.

Players like Ivan Sproule and Patrick Cregg were apparently not good enough. Now they're ripping the complete pish out of us and look like completely different players.

What makes you think it would be any different if we let this current batch of players go to other SPL clubs?

Beefster
12-02-2013, 09:35 PM
This might make uncomfortable reading but I reckon the clearout that is needed is of those involved in the scouting and youth development side.

Look at the number of promising youngsters the Yams are now blooding through necessity.

Likewise on the loan side they bring in quality youngsters in Wilson & N'Goo, whereas we have brought in Done & Robertson who look distinctly second rate.

If there was an award for the Scouting Lemon of the season, Hibs would win this hands down for bringing in Shefki Kuqi, who amazingly, is still on the books.

I don't know but the problem may be how much we invest in youth and scouting.


Players like Ivan Sproule and Patrick Cregg were apparently not good enough. Now they're ripping the complete pish out of us and look like completely different players.

What makes you think it would be any different if we let this current batch of players go to other SPL clubs?

We can't keep underperforming players because they might play well against us once at some point in the future. It's not like Cregg has haunted us since he left.