Fenlon Must Go

[Fergus52]

Are people seriously thinking that would be the best course of action for our club to take right now?

[Gerard]

Are people seriously thinking that would be the best course of action for our club to take right now?

Yes, some people do think this way. We could hire Sir Alec Ferguson and still be in the same position that we are in now. The club needs to give the manager at least 2 years to improve the team. There is no benefit to sacking the manager every year.

[Hibercelona]

Can't see too many people on here calling for his head.

I do however see a lot of people who are unhappy about his decision making and tactics earlier. Rightfully so as well.

[Fergus52]

Can't see too many people on here calling for his head.

I do however see a lot of people who are unhappy about his decision making and tactics earlier. Rightfully so as well.

yeah, that's fair enough.

On a few of the threads there were posters strongly implying that he should be sacked.

[Cabbage East]

No one is seriously wanting him to be punted.

[Hibercelona]

yeah, that's fair enough.

On a few of the threads there were posters strongly implying that he should be sacked.

It would certainly be a disaster to give him the sack now. Not only would the timing be terrible, but it would just give us yet another person that we'd have to pay off.

I can't say i'm currently feeling too confident about Fenlon being in charge, but I don't think letting him go is an option for us either.

[Captain Trips]

yeah, that's fair enough.

On a few of the threads there were posters strongly implying that he should be sacked.

I said he should be sacked in April as frankly his record until then was a disgrace, he has improved though this term but are we slipping backwards? I hope not.

[J-C]

Not ready for getting rid just yet but he's on a shooggly peg that's for sure.

He's beginning to look tactically out his depth, has no concept of what formation we should be playing and his subs are never game changing ones.

Defo a 2/10 for his performances this past 2-3 months.

[MrSmith]

Absolutely not! I'm going to remain consistent in that I believe the way we do business in the transfer windows cost us the most! Perhaps if we identified players a lot quicker, made solid moves to get them and then allowed the team to gel ... it would be a much different ball game! I cannae help but think that had we been a little more ambitious, with second place up for grabs, more could have been accomplished by the team. However Mr Petrie and the board must see it differently! I don't blame them given the last few years and the waste of money but they all need to take collective responsibility for that!

[gegs70]

We couldnt afford to sack him and bring in a new manager!!! Too costly!!

Howevr not overly impressed with players in especially January, tactics and team selection ws poor!! players brought in that havent been great ie kuqi.....tactics like cruzing against motherwell then taking off our 2 forwards with 20-30 minutes to go motherwell put on an exyra frwrd ... and we lose the game!!!

Not sure at all....maybe its not him and its more penny pinching from hibs, do hibs have a proper scouting network????

[HKhibby]

We couldnt afford to sack him and bring in a new manager!!! Too costly!!

Howevr not overly impressed with players in especially January, tactics and team selection ws poor!! players brought in that havent been great ie kuqi.....tactics like cruzing against motherwell then taking off our 2 forwards with 20-30 minutes to go motherwell put on an exyra frwrd ... and we lose the game!!!

Not sure at all....maybe its not him and its more penny pinching from hibs, do hibs have a proper scouting network????


Yes you are probably right, we cant afford to get rid of him just now, the ideal time, if any would be at the end of the season, in May.
I think Hibs do have a proper scouting network, well they used to anyway, not sure about now to be honest, due to being away for years now.
I said it at the time when he was appointed, but got shouted down by some on here, i dont think he is the type of manager that hibs need, and i definatly think he is out of his depth as a manager, coming from the LoI is one thing where he did reasonably well, but the SPL is a different kettle of fish, but not alot better than the LoI, from what i have seen, and admittingly i have not seen alot of the LoI recently.

Hibs missed their chance with loads of different possibilities as manager, but as usual yes you are right again!...penny pinching, by bringing him in to the job, we could have by-passed the whole thing with Calderwood as well, by bringing in someone bigger and better, and for once push the boat out and spend money on a decent manager, and the one i would have gone for, although completely missed the chance out now, would have been someone like Gordon Strachan, or someone like him with a background.

But thats just my opinion and thoughts, but i do not certainly think the major way forward is with Fenlon in charge, and looking at the current form and results...you cant see where the next goal is coming from..let alone a win!

[James70]

When does his contract expire?

We couldn't afford to pay off yet another manager but we could just wait until then and not renew it.

[SlickShoes]

Why?

We are 3 points worse off than any other team apart from Celtc. We are playing crap, but do you really think that we will be doing better with whatever other managers are going to want to come to ER? none of the better SPL managers would come here, so then you start looking at lower leagues in Scotland and England, I think Fenlon is about as good as we are going to get.

Yes, we are playing crap, but so is everyone else. The standard of football in the SPL is probably at the lowest point I can remember in my lifetime anyway.

If you think the Mowbray days are coming back any time soon then you are deluded.

[Golden Bear]

When does his contract expire?

We couldn't afford to pay off yet another manager but we could just wait until then and not renew it.

Short of Fenlon submitting his resignation, unfortunately that's the only realistic option available to the Club.

The guy is a one trick pony who set out his stall by signing three defensive midfielders when other areas of the team were in need of strengthening. I'm not convinced that he has the tactical nous to effectively change either the way he sets the team up or to react to formation changes which may be required during the course of a game.

Some may have blind faith in his abilities but I'm not one of them. It's worrying times that's for sure.

[delaCalz]

I dont think its anything to to with Fenlons tactics or formations. They have worked with good wins over smelltic and the yams, worked fine in the first part of the season. The problem is the players and their attitude to games like these. There is a complete lack of desire and work ethic that is present in the big games. Fenlon or any other manager for that matter can prepare and motivate the players all they want but when they get on the pitch its up to them to perform and they clearly arent. Hanlon couldnt pass a ball ten yards to his own team mate ffs, thats a complete lack of concentration imo and nothing Fenlon can have any influence over. Its time the majority of the players grew some balls instead of hiding and trying to just get through a game.

[Bishop Hibee]

I predicted 8th place on here at the start of the season and it's lookingmore likely. Too many poor performers last night. Still believe Fenlon has to be given the summer to ship players out and bring more in.

[jacomo]

I dont think its anything to to with Fenlons tactics or formations. They have worked with good wins over smelltic and the yams, worked fine in the first part of the season. The problem is the players and their attitude to games like these. There is a complete lack of desire and work ethic that is present in the big games. Fenlon or any other manager for that matter can prepare and motivate the players all they want but when they get on the pitch its up to them to perform and they clearly arent. Hanlon couldnt pass a ball ten yards to his own team mate ffs, thats a complete lack of concentration imo and nothing Fenlon can have any influence over. Its time the majority of the players grew some balls instead of hiding and trying to just get through a game.

We have only just managed to bring in enough cover to have options in midfield, but the new arrivals need a little time to find their feet.

We have few options in defence and almost none in attack. Ok Kuqi was the wrong man but given the budget the Hibs manager has to work with it's impossible to get it right every time.

[Russell The Dug]

End of season when season ticket sales are well down it will be bye bye to another disastrous managerial appointment.

[Treadstone]

The guy is a one trick pony who set out his stall by signing three defensive midfielders when other areas of the team were in need of strengthening. I'm not convinced that he has the tactical nous to effectively change either the way he sets the team up or to react to formation changes which may be required during the course of a game.

Some may have blind faith in his abilities but I'm not one of them. It's worrying times that's for sure.

This. When we hit the skids(November) his first and still so far only reaction is to be negative in our play. His substitutions worry me, eg at the ICT home game early in the season Caley were all over us second half and he neither countered that or changed it until they got the equaliser.

Last night two subs three minutes after half time! What had he seen in those three minutes that he hadn't seen first half ?

Would still like him to at the very least finish the season. His cup wins so far make him deserving of that.

[Russell The Dug]

We have only just managed to bring in enough cover to have options in midfield, but the new arrivals need a little time to find their feet.

We have few options in defence and almost none in attack. Ok Kuqi was the wrong man but given the budget the Hibs manager has to work with it's impossible to get it right every time.


Maybury? Clancy at full back? McPake will be our highest earner. No cover at all for Sparky. Hardly any footballers in the side at all.

There is nothing to inspire at all just now. Yet we will still get the "few points off second blah blah" when it's glaringly obvious we are one of the worst sides in the league.

[Vini1875]

I think it is the attitude of the fans that is the real problem. Our club is at a very low point all around and these performances are not unusual under any manager we have had since JC. We raise our game as has been said at times and then can't roll up our sleeves to bull doze grittier teams. I feel it is down to our player budget and the constraints the manager is under. We were well beaten by a team who came to ER to bully us and fight for everything, they were so up for it and our players simply did not respond to it in similar fashion.

PF has improved things, but he needs time to develop players and to develop himself as an SPL manager we need to stick with it. I am hoping that last night was a wake up call to all of them at ER that we have a long way to go. Overall his signings have been decent and an improvement on what was here. We were fighting relegation last year it is hardly likely that we were going to get second and win the Scottish Cup. Progrees is doing better than we did last season and at this moment we are, even with results like last night.

The fans need to more supportive and less critical. Shouting "this is s####" I can't see as being useful. A lot of xbox fifa 2013 managers around me last night.

[Thecat23]

I don't think we should be sacking Fenlon right now. But because we have sacked a few managers in the past should not mean that Fenlon is unsackable. The main worry for me is his terrible tactics and playing players out of position. One up front at home is not for me either. I hate this ridiculous argument of "Oh but some of the best teams in the world play one up front". Yes because they have some of the best players in the world and have play makers in their side. When you have a basic football team then play to your strengths. A solid 4-4-2 and using the wing men can stretch a team open. We play so narrow that teams playing against us can put 2 men on a Hibs player pretty much every time we get the ball. Fenlon needs to realise that he can't play this way all the time. Maybe v Celtic yes I'd understand but look at the stats of the last 5 games. We barely can get a shot on target because Leigh is so isolated. I hope he gets it right as I do like Fenlon but i also hope he sees his own errors and has the guts to change it.

[onlyonesauzee4]

thinking back to last season as a whole and even the season before that, calling for Fenlon to go or resign is ludicrous. yes recent performances have been poor and tactically some of the decisions have been more than questionable, but to change managers again is pointless. It is still possible that we can finish second and we are still in the scottish cup, top six this season would be a dramatic improvement and the manager deserves credit for the job he is doing.

the frequently cited example of Sir Alex Ferguson at old trafford always springs to mind. took him 6 years to win his first trophy with man u yet after just over a year of steady improvement people want hibs to change managers again. rome not built in a day

[1875HFC]

thinking back to last season as a whole and even the season before that, calling for Fenlon to go or resign is ludicrous. yes recent performances have been poor and tactically some of the decisions have been more than questionable, but to change managers again is pointless. It is still possible that we can finish second and we are still in the scottish cup, top six this season would be a dramatic improvement and the manager deserves credit for the job he is doing.

the frequently cited example of Sir Alex Ferguson at old trafford always springs to mind. took him 6 years to win his first trophy with man u yet after just over a year of steady improvement people want hibs to change managers again. rome not built in a day


:aok::aok::aok::aok::aok::aok::aok::aok::aok:

[Thecat23]

thinking back to last season as a whole and even the season before that, calling for Fenlon to go or resign is ludicrous. yes recent performances have been poor and tactically some of the decisions have been more than questionable, but to change managers again is pointless. It is still possible that we can finish second and we are still in the scottish cup, top six this season would be a dramatic improvement and the manager deserves credit for the job he is doing.

the frequently cited example of Sir Alex Ferguson at old trafford always springs to mind. took him 6 years to win his first trophy with man u yet after just over a year of steady improvement people want hibs to change managers again. rome not built in a day

No offence mate but when folk start to use Alex Ferguson is an example it really doesn't hold up considering he's arguably the most successful manager ever in the UK. Fenlon isn't going to ever win us the league. I don't want him sacked by the way he defo needs more time but when folk start chucking in Fergie and saying it took him 6 years it was a totally different era and he had a massive amount of cash to spend.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I dont think its anything to to with Fenlons tactics or formations. They have worked with good wins over smelltic and the yams, worked fine in the first part of the season. The problem is the players and their attitude to games like these. There is a complete lack of desire and work ethic that is present in the big games. Fenlon or any other manager for that matter can prepare and motivate the players all they want but when they get on the pitch its up to them to perform and they clearly arent. Hanlon couldnt pass a ball ten yards to his own team mate ffs, thats a complete lack of concentration imo and nothing Fenlon can have any influence over. Its time the majority of the players grew some balls instead of hiding and trying to just get through a game.

In a nutshell for me, too many players going through the motions and not working hard enough during games. Last night St Johnstone fought, harried and wanted to win the ball, us on the other hand were not at the races.

Huge concern for me is how badly we start games, we expect things to happen, but are creating diddly squat in terms of chances....

[Fergus52]

I don't think we should be sacking Fenlon right now. But because we have sacked a few managers in the past should not mean that Fenlon is unsackable. The main worry for me is his terrible tactics and playing players out of position. One up front at home is not for me either. I hate this ridiculous argument of "Oh but some of the best teams in the world play one up front". Yes because they have some of the best players in the world and have play makers in their side. When you have a basic football team then play to your strengths. A solid 4-4-2 and using the wing men can stretch a team open. We play so narrow that teams playing against us can put 2 men on a Hibs player pretty much every time we get the ball. Fenlon needs to realise that he can't play this way all the time. Maybe v Celtic yes I'd understand but look at the stats of the last 5 games. We barely can get a shot on target because Leigh is so isolated. I hope he gets it right as I do like Fenlon but i also hope he sees his own errors and has the guts to change it.

We beat Aberdeen playing 4-5-1, then got hammered by St Johnstone when we played 4-4-2.

Until Doyle, Griffiths and Cairney find some form again I don't think we're good enough for a 4-4-2.

[LeighLoyal]

One good thing about being mince is it should be easier to deal with the guys out of contract this summer, I doubt many will be breaking down the doors for them. Keep Fenlon anyway, he's doing okay overall although plenty room for improvement.

[Thecat23]

We beat Aberdeen playing 4-5-1, then got hammered by St Johnstone when we played 4-4-2.

Until Doyle, Griffiths and Cairney find some form again I don't think we're good enough for a 4-4-2.

I think until he changes to a 4-4-2 we aren't good enough to even play a 4-5-1.

[Golden Bear]

I think until he changes to a 4-4-2 we aren't good enough to even play a 4-5-1.

The ship will be steadied at the weekend with a good solid 4-6. Trust me.


:wink:

[Stevie Reid]

I think Cairney playing in the no.10 role has to be tried, he is great one on one with an opponent but lacks the pace to truly get away from his man out wide - that ability to find a yard allied with his eye for a pass would surely be of use there.

I also think that Tom Taiwo should feel really hard done by these last few weeks, I still maintain that our best football this season was played with him and Claros in the centre of midfield.

[delaCalz]

In a nutshell for me, too many players going through the motions and not working hard enough during games. Last night St Johnstone fought, harried and wanted to win the ball, us on the other hand were not at the races.

Huge concern for me is how badly we start games, we expect things to happen, but are creating diddly squat in terms of chances....

Exactly mate, earlier in the season they were working much harder and winning games. You watch Barca play and they run themselves into the ground to get the ball back if they lose it. I know ability wise they are miles away from us but they also put more graft in than us when they dont have the ball. For me that is the biggest problem and a lot of the players still think they are on their Chirstmas holidays

[CRAZYHIBBY]

I wouldnt mind seeing big eck back

[The Green Goblin]

A few comments (rightly) mentioning the attitude, lack of hunger or fight from the players, but this has been the case at Hibs for so long now. Why is this? Why is it that players come to hibs and often seem to look or get worse and leave hibs and do much better? Wasn't there even an acknowledgement of the team's attitude not being good enough and a promise from the club that this was going to be a thing of the past after last season?! Frustrating that we are still talking about this...

[HFC 0-7]

Not happy with the results and performances and I think Fenlon has made errors with tactics and team choice. I think he underestimated Scottish football and is finding it harder than he thought. Remember though this is his first full season and he is maybe still trying different things out and still learning the Scottish game. I am reasonably happy with his player purchases , they have been better than previous managers recently.

What I would say is that he is still needing players in certain positions and the fact he is taking people on loan still is only going to make it harder as he will need to spend time looking for players whilst keeping others.

Another thing I think hibs need to consider she style of play we adopt. Hibs are actively trying to get fans back, I think there were quite a few people at last night games who aren't regulars. Performances and tactics like last night won't have them hurrying back.

Give him more time we must judge a manager on his abilities on getting a team out of a bad patch as all teams will have them.

[sambajustice]

Fenlon Out, McCall In

[Craig_in_Prague]

Fenlon out, McInness in

[IWasThere2016]

Hoofbaw out, football in

[hibbydog]

Fenlon out, McInness in

Nonsense.

I think Hibs have proved over the last 5-10 years that sacking managers is NOT the way forward. How many times have we brought in a manager that's actually improved things? Once with Mowbray, the rest left things in a worse state than they found them

It's high time we gave a manger time. 14 months is not enough. There are no quick fixes in football.

If everyone wants to see heads roll, how about we sack some players?

[Cropley10]

Petrie and Fenlon out, No point otherwise.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

A few comments (rightly) mentioning the attitude, lack of hunger or fight from the players, but this has been the case at Hibs for so long now. Why is this? Why is it that players come to hibs and often seem to look or get worse and leave hibs and do much better? Wasn't there even an acknowledgement of the team's attitude not being good enough and a promise from the club that this was going to be a thing of the past after last season?! Frustrating that we are still talking about this...

My thoughts exactly, I've commented on this several times in the past, just what goes on at our club regarding this, is Easter Road Stadium built over an ancient burial ground or something?

Just cannot understand why newly bought players (Sparky aside) don't impact right away yet other clubs don't have a problem with it,

Baffling to say the least..

:grr:

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't believe we should accept mediocrity and decline. I was all for giving Yogi the boot despite the decent first half of his tenure, as it was clear that he had not only lost the dressing room but couldn't find his way to the stadium. Calderwood, despite the Ibrox win, did nothing but drag us down and I wasn't at all for him, as it was clear he was only semi-interested in the job.

He left an almighty mess to clean up.

Fenlon is doing that, but it takes time. Yes, the football is eye-bleeding percentages stuff, but it's still a massive improvement on last season. We need the passion of our bigger games in a packed stadium to transfer to the humdrum fixtures at home and away to the Ross County's and St Johnstone's of this world. Despite the improvement on last season teams like that still see us as an easy touch.

So a lot needs to be done, but the idea of sacking PF at this point drives me to despair. I think he needs to arrest this bad run, and then have a strong season next term. Let's face it, in Scotland you have one average side, ten bad ones, and one atrocious one. Our season is still in the balance, we could be second best (great success) or second worse (abject failure) with not a whole heap of a points/performance difference between the two.

[Hibercelona]

I don't believe we should accept mediocrity and decline. I was all for giving Yogi the boot despite the decent first half of his tenure, as it was clear that he had not only lost the dressing room but couldn't find his way to the stadium. Calderwood, despite the Ibrox win, did nothing but drag us down and I wasn't at all for him, as it was clear he was only semi-interested in the job.

He left an almighty mess to clean up.

Fenlon is doing that, but it takes time. Yes, the football is eye-bleeding percentages stuff, but it's still a massive improvement on last season. We need the passion of our bigger games in a packed stadium to transfer to the humdrum fixtures at home and away to the Ross County's and St Johnstone's of this world. Despite the improvement on last season teams like that still see us as an easy touch.

So a lot needs to be done, but the idea of sacking PF at this point drives me to despair. I think he needs to arrest this bad run, and then have a strong season next term. Let's face it, in Scotland you have one average side, ten bad ones, and one atrocious one. Our season is still in the balance, we could be second best (great success) or second worse (abject failure) with not a whole heap of a points/performance difference between the two.

Good post DBS. :aok:

It's easy to be critical of the team after a defeat like this. Me being one of the worst culprits. But we need balance and settlement at the club. Chopping and changing things managers/players will only prolong the same painful cycle that we've found ourselves in for the last several years.

For me, the players don't look as fit as they should be. I don't think teams like St Johnstone and Ross County are any better than us in terms of ability, they just look sharper, fitter and quicker than our own lot.

Instead of changing everything around yet again, we should be trying to target the route cause of whats making the lads look so unfit in comparison to opposition teams in the league. There's got to be a reason why fitness seems to be an issue, regardless of who we bring in.

[Hibees07]

I don't believe we should accept mediocrity and decline. I was all for giving Yogi the boot despite the decent first half of his tenure, as it was clear that he had not only lost the dressing room but couldn't find his way to the stadium. Calderwood, despite the Ibrox win, did nothing but drag us down and I wasn't at all for him, as it was clear he was only semi-interested in the job.

He left an almighty mess to clean up.

Fenlon is doing that, but it takes time. Yes, the football is eye-bleeding percentages stuff, but it's still a massive improvement on last season. We need the passion of our bigger games in a packed stadium to transfer to the humdrum fixtures at home and away to the Ross County's and St Johnstone's of this world. Despite the improvement on last season teams like that still see us as an easy touch.

So a lot needs to be done, but the idea of sacking PF at this point drives me to despair. I think he needs to arrest this bad run, and then have a strong season next term. Let's face it, in Scotland you have one average side, ten bad ones, and one atrocious one. Our season is still in the balance, we could be second best (great success) or second worse (abject failure) with not a whole heap of a points/performance difference between the two.

Do you really think there is a massive improvement on last season?. Yes we have had one or two good results but plenty more shockers.

I have never been so bored watching our home games bar 2 or 3 games, which were basically back to the wall hold on's for victory.

You have to remember this is entirely Fenlon's team, none of the Calderwood or Hughes 'dross' remain and as you say the football is still eye bleeding.

We have nothing coming through the ranks and our new January signings have produced little so far (since the tranfer window opened), I include McGivern, Claros & LG along with Done & Robertson.

I know I will be slated, as I was for the 'Fenlon Out, Butcher In' thread, but people really need to open their eye's and see how little progress (if any) has been made.

[khib70]

Do you really think there is a massive improvement on last season?. Yes we have had one or two good results but plenty more shockers.

I have never been so bored watching our home games bar 2 or 3 games, which were basically back to the wall hold on's for victory.

You have to remember this is entirely Fenlon's team, none of the Calderwood or Hughes 'dross' remain and as you say the football is still eye bleeding.

We have nothing coming through the ranks and our new January signings have produced little so far (since the tranfer window opened), I include McGivern, Claros & LG along with Done & Robertson.

I know I will be slated, as I was for the 'Fenlon Out, Butcher In' thread, but people really need to open their eye's and see how little progress (if any) has been made.
:agree: Well said. And well done for sticking to your guns despite the continuous and childish abuse of the now rapidly diminishing "Pat Can Do No Wrong" tendency.

You're being vindicated with every game, sadly, and attendances will continue to decline if the product on offer doesn't improve. The pathetic "hard to beat" argument is looking tragically silly these days as an excuse for torture football.

[heretoday]

It's not Fenlon's fault. It's the C-list type of player we are forced to employ these days.

Imagine how we used to sign the likes of Sauzee and Bestie?

[Brightside]

Last night i was ranting about a lot of what Fenlon does but the bottom line is that the team are simply not trying hard enough. They look lazy, skinny and unfit. St J looked like men playing against boys last night. That is not acceptable. And for all those that stick up for players going out on the piss, hanging about with dicks, arguing at fast food counters.....this is what you get. The team and the club are simply not professional enough. Its a sin to watch players not fight for the ball. I said it last night but again i'd play the boys. The boys that are spotted out running at night working hard on basics. How many of this squad want to be winners rather than fancy dan George St fannies. DISGRACE

[khib70]

It's not Fenlon's fault. It's the C-list type of player we are forced to employ these days.

Imagine how we used to sign the likes of Sauzee and Bestie?


Last night i was ranting about a lot of what Fenlon does but the bottom line is that the team are simply not trying hard enough. They look lazy, skinny and unfit. St J looked like men playing against boys last night. That is not acceptable. And for all those that stick up for players going out on the piss, hanging about with dicks, arguing at fast food counters.....this is what you get. The team and the club are simply not professional enough. Its a sin to watch players not fight for the ball. I said it last night but again i'd play the boys. The boys that are spotted out running at night working hard on basics. How many of this squad want to be winners rather than fancy dan George St fannies. DISGRACE

Who signed them? Who coaches them? Who picks the team? Who chooses the tactics.? Who briefs them before the game and at half time?

[bingo70]

Do you really think there is a massive improvement on last season?. Yes we have had one or two good results but plenty more shockers.

I have never been so bored watching our home games bar 2 or 3 games, which were basically back to the wall hold on's for victory.

You have to remember this is entirely Fenlon's team, none of the Calderwood or Hughes 'dross' remain and as you say the football is still eye bleeding.

We have nothing coming through the ranks and our new January signings have produced little so far (since the tranfer window opened), I include McGivern, Claros & LG along with Done & Robertson.

I know I will be slated, as I was for the 'Fenlon Out, Butcher In' thread, but people really need to open their eye's and see how little progress (if any) has been made.
The fact we hit last seasons points tally by January proves there's Been improvement, not even an argument to say otherwise imo.

There's maybe an argument to say the progress isn't fast enough but there's definately been progress.

[Brightside]

Who signed them? Who coaches them? Who picks the team? Who chooses the tactics.? Who briefs them before the game and at half time?

Again....effort brings reward. If a player wont try to win the ball then they should all **** off and go back to playing 5s on a sat night.

[Craig_in_Prague]

The fact we hit last seasons points tally by January proves there's Been improvement, not even an argument to say otherwise imo.

There's maybe an argument to say the progress isn't fast enough but there's definately been progress.

Its really like a girlfriend saying you have progressed from lasting 5 seconds to 6.
Doesnt mean its progress worth bleating on about.

[bingo70]

Its really like a girlfriend saying you have progressed from lasting 5 seconds to 6.
Doesnt mean its progress worth bleating on about.

Hitting last seasons points total by January is worth bleating on about when there's people suggesting little or no progress has been made.

[heretoday]

Its really like a girlfriend saying you have progressed from lasting 5 seconds to 6.
Doesnt mean its progress worth bleating on about.

She's still your girlfriend though!

What am I saying here?

[Hibercelona]

We've progressed, then we've regressed.

Unless we start progressing again quickly, our current top 6 position isn't going to count for anything.

[khib70]

Hitting last seasons points total by January is worth bleating on about when there's people suggesting little or no progress has been made.
It's meaningless and clutching at historical straws. It's a different league this year. No Huns this year and a total whipping boy in the form of Dundee. One league win out of ten is a meaningful statistic. More defeats than anyone bar the aforementioned whipping boys is a meaningful statistic. The decline in attendances is a meaningful statistic.

And after all, if Calderwood is your benchmark, you can call anything progress.

[bingo70]

It's meaningless and clutching at historical straws. It's a different league this year. No Huns this year and a total whipping boy in the form of Dundee. One league win out of ten is a meaningful statistic. More defeats than anyone bar the aforementioned whipping boys is a meaningful statistic. The decline in attendances is a meaningful statistic.

And after all, if Calderwood is your benchmark, you can call anything progress.

It's not meaningless at all, the league table is the only way to chart progress.

Calderwoods team last season wouldn't have us on this many points and kept so many clean sheets so progress is being made, fenlons having to turn round years of decline and that takes time, he's starting off by improving the defence and building from the back, he needs to stop the rot now and try and keep us in the top 6 and then next season we need to try and build on that.

[Brightside]

It's not meaningless at all, the league table is the only way to chart progress.

Calderwoods team last season wouldn't have us on this many points and kept so many clean sheets so progress is being made, fenlons having to turn round years of decline and that takes time, he's starting off by improving the defence and building from the back, he needs to stop the rot now and try and keep us in the top 6 and then next season we need to try and build on that.

Sorry but that is bollix. The league table just shows that every team out side of celtic are varying degrees of shiyite. Our performance has not improved. We have sneaked results against poor teams and somehow got points against the "big boys". Our game is poor. To watch a defender with no pressure play a square ball then go back 10 yrds rather than push up tells us where we are.

[Baldy Foghorn]

It's not meaningless at all, the league table is the only way to chart progress.

Calderwoods team last season wouldn't have us on this many points and kept so many clean sheets so progress is being made, fenlons having to turn round years of decline and that takes time, he's starting off by improving the defence and building from the back, he needs to stop the rot now and try and keep us in the top 6 and then next season we need to try and build on that.

Wasting your time Bingo, some on here are too stubborn to admit that progress has been made. We have hit a rocky patch of late, but sure we will rack up more wins and more points in the coming matches........

After two horrendous Seasons, I am more than happy with our points total, although also aware it should be more.....Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.....Progress most definitely been made though, that is for sure

[bingo70]

Sorry but that is bollix. The league table just shows that every team out side of celtic are varying degrees of shiyite. Our performance has not improved. We have sneaked results against poor teams and somehow got points against the "big boys". Our game is poor. To watch a defender with no pressure play a square ball then go back 10 yrds rather than push up tells us where we are.

We've sneaked results by conceding less goals and I'm guessing scoring more than last season, in the games we've sneaked one nil this season we would have lost last season as we would have conceded.

[khib70]

We've sneaked results by conceding less goals and I'm guessing scoring more than last season, in the games we've sneaked one nil this season we would have lost last season as we would have conceded.

So for you. "progress" means being slightly less Tom Kite. The definition of "progress" has certainly taken a beating in the last few weeks.

Still at least we know that it took more than 24 hours to construct the Italian capital city, since we've been informed of that 2,500 times in the last few days by the same rapidly diminishing group of people

[bingo70]

So for you. "progress" means being slightly less Tom Kite. The definition of "progress" has certainly taken a beating in the last few weeks.

Still at least we know that it took more than 24 hours to construct the Italian capital city, since we've been informed of that 2,500 times in the last few days by the same rapidly diminishing group of people

Slightly less ***** would suggest scraping past last years points total, we hit it with about 4 months of the season left!

It's not just points though, its defensively, I know we had a blip last night but we've been terrible defensively for years but this season for long spells we look hard to beat which is how all good teams are built, its just unfortunate that being better defensively isn't exciting or going to bring the punters back, I'd hope that would be addressed next season though.

[jeffers]

Are we really better defensively or are we just a defensive team at least latterly ? By that I mean playing three defensive midfielders and an isolated striker has probably contributed more to our loss of goals than a water tight back four. I keep reading we'll strengthen in the summer and build on the foundations of this season, but how strong are these foundations really ?

[Brightside]

Hibernian under-20s were beaten 4-1 by Motherwell at Newtongrange tonight - our goal was scored by Ross Caldwell.

The future isnae that bright either. Best facilty in the league. What is going wrong.

[Speedway]

The thing I like is that from Franck through to Pat...that's what 8 managers, we've managed to find the tactically inept one each time.

Franck - No idea how to change it
Blobby - Just lump it up to Gaz
Mowbray - No plan B
Collins - Baffling team selections
Mixu - failed diamond experiment
Yogi - Clown
Calderwood - Clueless, yet bagged yet another premiership job after us.
Fenlon - Out of his depth

So I'm thinking, where is this tactically inept academy that you can go to before you get the Hibs job because they all had their badges or in Mixu's case got them whilst at Hibs. So they've all had to demonstrate tactical understanding to a UEFA Pro standard but as they reach the door at ER, Tam must zap them with an MIB memory remover that cleanses them of any recollection of sound association football tactical nous.

How is it, that each manager is clueless and tactically inept at Hibs?

[gegs70]

Intent would be to invest in half decent players, give our youth a chance to learn from decent players. othrr than that we have similar type midfielders, akthough I thought Robertson was the box to box player .... not sure about that one!!

Quality not quantity....please!

[marinello59]

I don't believe we should accept mediocrity and decline. I was all for giving Yogi the boot despite the decent first half of his tenure, as it was clear that he had not only lost the dressing room but couldn't find his way to the stadium. Calderwood, despite the Ibrox win, did nothing but drag us down and I wasn't at all for him, as it was clear he was only semi-interested in the job.

He left an almighty mess to clean up.

Fenlon is doing that, but it takes time. Yes, the football is eye-bleeding percentages stuff, but it's still a massive improvement on last season. We need the passion of our bigger games in a packed stadium to transfer to the humdrum fixtures at home and away to the Ross County's and St Johnstone's of this world. Despite the improvement on last season teams like that still see us as an easy touch.

So a lot needs to be done, but the idea of sacking PF at this point drives me to despair. I think he needs to arrest this bad run, and then have a strong season next term. Let's face it, in Scotland you have one average side, ten bad ones, and one atrocious one. Our season is still in the balance, we could be second best (great success) or second worse (abject failure) with not a whole heap of a points/performance difference between the two.

Agreed DBS. So why is there a culture of caution ingrained in this Hibs side when we are playing in the poorest SPL I can remember? I think one of Pat Fenlon's strengths has been identifying the right kind of player to take to Easter Road. However he seems incapable of getting the best out of them. Our players are no worse than those in the majority of teams yet we look outnumbered in every area of the pitch no matter who we play. St Johnstone went forward last night as a unit. We had players looking to pass in to empty spaces because our midfield seemed unwilling to leave the halfway line. That's not the players fault, it's coming from the bench. I would dispute that the play on the pitch actually is an improvement on last season. I am more than pleased with our points tally so far but our play has gone backwards over the last couple of months and I see no signs of that changing soon. The idea of sacking Pat Fenlon at this point drives me to despair too. Perhaps getting a 'coach' in to work with him while he manages is the answer. He shouldn't be untouchable though just because of our recent history of a managerial revolving door.

[khib70]

Slightly less ***** would suggest scraping past last years points total, we hit it with about 4 months of the season left!

It's not just points though, its defensively, I know we had a blip last night but we've been terrible defensively for years but this season for long spells we look hard to beat which is how all good teams are built, its just unfortunate that being better defensively isn't exciting or going to bring the punters back, I'd hope that would be addressed next season though.
Jeez, same old stuff post after post.

Last night was not "a blip" it was the culmination of months of decline. It had been coming for ages.

"Hard to beat". Aye right. Losing twice to a team 16 points adrift at the bottom. Turned over major style at home by St Johnstone. This argument is just plain garbage. As a way of justifying the dreadful football we've had to suffer, it just doesn't cut it. Far from being hard to beat, most teams in the league would happily play us every week - including Dundee.

But keep repeating the same few desperate cliches. It makes you a bigger and better fan, don't you know and anyone who disagrees is a yam.....

[jdships]

Can't see too many people on here calling for his head.

I do however see a lot of people who are unhappy about his decision making and tactics earlier. Rightfully so as well.

:agree::thumbsup:

[gegs70]

Bobby brought thru the youth players and took the heat for it, mowbray got the benefut of them and I enjoyed those years some fantastic games and memories!!! Then really started to go down hill from thrre!!

If we get success we lose players and manager....but we get financial compensation. We are pish we lise money...cant get shot of players or manager without a pay off....3-4 seasons of that and that is why we are in this position.

If we cant get the right player we should just use youth players cause Im fed up paying money for crap no point!!

[Jim44]

The thing I like is that from Franck through to Pat...that's what 8 managers, we've managed to find the tactically inept one each time.

Franck - No idea how to change it
Blobby - Just lump it up to Gaz
Mowbray - No plan B
Collins - Baffling team selections
Mixu - failed diamond experiment
Yogi - Clown
Calderwood - Clueless, yet bagged yet another premiership job after us.
Fenlon - Out of his depth

So I'm thinking, where is this tactically inept academy that you can go to before you get the Hibs job because they all had their badges or in Mixu's case got them whilst at Hibs. So they've all had to demonstrate tactical understanding to a UEFA Pro standard but as they reach the door at ER, Tam must zap them with an MIB memory remover that cleanses them of any recollection of sound association football tactical nous.

How is it, that each manager is clueless and tactically inept at Hibs?

Add a 'goalie' manager, another 'midfield general' manager and a 'strker' manager and you've got a decent team of golden oldies.

[bingo70]

Jeez, same old stuff post after post.

Last night was not "a blip" it was the culmination of months of decline. It had been coming for ages.

"Hard to beat". Aye right. Losing twice to a team 16 points adrift at the bottom. Turned over major style at home by St Johnstone. This argument is just plain garbage. As a way of justifying the dreadful football we've had to suffer, it just doesn't cut it. Far from being hard to beat, most teams in the league would happily play us every week - including Dundee.

But keep repeating the same few desperate cliches. It makes you a bigger and better fan, don't you know and anyone who disagrees is a yam.....

Wtf are you slavering about at the end there?

Why am I a better fan? Why has my size relevant? Where have I called you a yam?

I just disagree with you about the progress thats being made and I think the league table backs up my point.

We've lost less games at this stage than we did to last season so I think we're harder to beat than last season! Just to be clear if you disagree that's fine, I don't think I'm a better fan than you and I've no idea if your a jambo but I doubt you are seeing as you're here, definately no idea if I'm bigger though?

[sesoim]

Are people seriously thinking that would be the best course of action for our club to take right now?


If we lose our next three games (putting us out of the cup and down very close to 11th) then I think most people will be saying Fenlon has to go.

I think Fenlon should be doing better - most other SPL managers would love to have been able to sign as many players as Fenlon has (and have his wage budget). He still has a chance to turn things around, but if he seriously thought signing a good central striker wasn't as important as all the other signings he made in January (bar Griffiths) then I don't think he has a clue.

And our kick the ball sideways repeatedly and then punt it forward to a wee striker tactics kind of back that up.

[gegs70]

Wtf are you slavering about at the end there?

Why am I a better fan? Why has my size relevant? Where have I called you a yam?

I just disagree with you about the progress thats being made and I think the league table backs up my point.

We've lost less games at this stage than we did to last season so I think we're harder to beat than last season! Just to be clear if you disagree that's fine, I don't think I'm a better fan than you and I've no idea if your a jambo but I doubt you are seeing as you're here, definately no idea if I'm bigger though?

Imrovemnt is we have a goalie....we may be on track to h!!ave slightly more points but we are also only 4 points away from 10th place. We still havent looked good enough....that was not my idea of progress!! I want to see it on the park....its still the same issues theough the core of the team.

[gegs70]

If we lose our next three games (putting us out of the cup and down very close to 11th) then I think most people will be saying Fenlon has to go.

I think Fenlon should be doing better - most other SPL managers would love to have been able to sign as many players as Fenlon has (and have his wage budget). He still has a chance to turn things around, but if he seriously thought signing a good central striker wasn't as important as all the other signings he made in January (bar Griffiths) then I don't think he has a clue.

And our kick the ball sideways repeatedly and then punt it forward to a wee striker tactics kind of back that up.

Agree but we also needed a quality midfielder....i would have taken Kevin Thomson we just need some quality thru the middle. Take hanlon out and put mcgivern in the middle with mcpake. Also drop Doyle and put caldwell in ...

[hibbysam]

Jeez, same old stuff post after post.

Last night was not "a blip" it was the culmination of months of decline. It had been coming for ages.

"Hard to beat". Aye right. Losing twice to a team 16 points adrift at the bottom. Turned over major style at home by St Johnstone. This argument is just plain garbage. As a way of justifying the dreadful football we've had to suffer, it just doesn't cut it. Far from being hard to beat, most teams in the league would happily play us every week - including Dundee.

But keep repeating the same few desperate cliches. It makes you a bigger and better fan, don't you know and anyone who disagrees is a yam.....

Who is this team that have beat us twice while being 16 points adrift at the bottom?

If your gonna have a go at the team at least make your facts indeed facts and not just made up garbage to make your point sound good..

As far as I was aware we had trounced Dundee 3-0 at home, drawn 1-1 at home and lost 3-1 away!

[Fergus52]

Who is this team that have beat us twice while being 16 points adrift at the bottom?

If your gonna have a go at the team at least make your facts indeed facts and not just made up garbage to make your point sound good..

As far as I was aware we had trounced Dundee 3-0 at home, drawn 1-1 at home and lost 3-1 away!

This bothers me too. So many posters make things up and blatantly lie when trying to make a point that degrades the club.

Be critical all you like, but when they start lying there's got to be something wrong.

[Fergus52]

Hitting last seasons points total by January is worth bleating on about when there's people suggesting little or no progress has been made.

:top marks

So many posters like to use to word "fact" when talking about our poorer results/performances.

Well there's a good one for you all there, one that can't be argued with.

[basehibby]

Going back to the original point..

Fenlon must go??? No - not in my opinion.

I won't deny he has his shortfalls - his tactical approach/changes have sometimes had me scratching my head and the style of football we have been watching this season has not always been easy on the eye - especially in more recent games.

But on the other hand he has had notable successes - progressing in the cup vs tough opposition for example - and his signings have generally made sense and been of decent quality. Also he appears to be 100% committed to the job and seems to have a strategic plan and to be playing the long game with his squad building at Hibs (no pun intended:wink:).

He's noted to be a tough task master who won't suffer shirkers in his quest for success and I think he'll stop the rot in the coming weeks and we'll end up having a decent if unspectacular season and will then see a more adventurous side emerge over the summer.

Some may think my assessment on the optimistic side but we'll never know if we don't try and what's the alternative? AN Other manager to scrap it all and start all over again on an even lesser budget??? No thanks!

[Fergus52]

Going back to the original point..

Fenlon must go??? No - not in my opinion.

I won't deny he has his shortfalls - his tactical approach/changes have sometimes had me scratching my head and the style of football we have been watching this season has not always been easy on the eye - especially in more recent games.

But on the other hand he has had notable successes - progressing in the cup vs tough opposition for example - and his signings have generally made sense and been of decent quality. Also he appears to be 100% committed to the job and seems to have a strategic plan and to be playing the long game with his squad building at Hibs (no pun intended:wink:).

He's noted to be a tough task master who won't suffer shirkers in his quest for success and I think he'll stop the rot in the coming weeks and we'll end up having a decent if unspectacular season and will then see a more adventurous side emerge over the summer.

Some may think my assessment on the optimistic side but we'll never know if we don't try and what's the alternative? AN Other manager to scrap it all and start all over again on an even lesser budget??? No thanks!

Thats pretty much my thoughts on it too!

[HiBremian]

Going back to the original point..

Fenlon must go??? No - not in my opinion.

I won't deny he has his shortfalls - his tactical approach/changes have sometimes had me scratching my head and the style of football we have been watching this season has not always been easy on the eye - especially in more recent games.

But on the other hand he has had notable successes - progressing in the cup vs tough opposition for example - and his signings have generally made sense and been of decent quality. Also he appears to be 100% committed to the job and seems to have a strategic plan and to be playing the long game with his squad building at Hibs (no pun intended:wink:).

He's noted to be a tough task master who won't suffer shirkers in his quest for success and I think he'll stop the rot in the coming weeks and we'll end up having a decent if unspectacular season and will then see a more adventurous side emerge over the summer.

Some may think my assessment on the optimistic side but we'll never know if we don't try and what's the alternative? AN Other manager to scrap it all and start all over again on an even lesser budget??? No thanks!

Pretty well my thoughts too. :agree:

People often talk about a "work in progress", but seem to think this only applies to the team. Well coming from the LOI, PF is surely also a "work in progress", and like Fergie at MUFC needs to grow into the job. FWIW my view on that shambles on Monday night was that it screamed out "player psychology problem". The whole team, with the honorable exception of Big Ben, looked like they couldn't give a flyin fig. And it's not the first time. Why is it always against the so-called lesser teams? Big Time Charlie syndrome or what? Whatever it is, of all the managers we've had since Le God, I have most faith in PF to sort it.

Progress has been made, as other posters have said. The signings mostly make sense, we are usually a tougher team than last season, and we've had some good performances this season. It'd be more helpful to focus on what now needs to be addressed here (how to consistently motivate a half-decent group of players) instead of the same-old-same-old-sack-the-manager-mantra, that just brings us back to square one again. :flag:

[khib70]

This bothers me too. So many posters make things up and blatantly lie when trying to make a point that degrades the club.

Be critical all you like, but when they start lying there's got to be something wrong.
Didn't make anything up. Just misread the stats and didn't check the post properly. My bad and I apologise.

It should be 4 points out of 9 against the team adrift at the bottom. Obviously that's worldbeating form and no grounds for concern.

And when will you get it into your head that nobody's degrading the club. We may have different ideas from you about what's happening right now, but everyone on here wants the best for Hibs and the fans. Criticising the manager is not degrading the club. What's degrading the club now is dull, negative football, tactical ineptitude and poor results. People are not prepared to accept that because they care about the club.

The real statistical manipulation around here comes from those who take as a benchmark the worst Hibs manager and team in living memory, and are dancing in the streets because we're doing marginally better.

[Mikey]

Didn't make anything up............

dancing in the streets because we're doing marginally better.

So you thought you would make that up instead :aok:

[khib70]

So you thought you would make that up instead :aok:
That's what's known as a "metaphor", not meant to imply actual jigging in Leith Walk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

It's a reference to the apparent complacency about the fact that we're slightly better than last year's utter dreadfulness, and the clutching of straws involved. (Although not meant to imply any actual grasping of agricultural waste material):greengrin

[Emerald]

Didn't make anything up. Just misread the stats and didn't check the post properly. My bad and I apologise.

It should be 4 points out of 9 against the team adrift at the bottom. Obviously that's worldbeating form and no grounds for concern.

And when will you get it into your head that nobody's degrading the club. We may have different ideas from you about what's happening right now, but everyone on here wants the best for Hibs and the fans. Criticising the manager is not degrading the club. What's degrading the club now is dull, negative football, tactical ineptitude and poor results. People are not prepared to accept that because they care about the club.

The real statistical manipulation around here comes from those who take as a benchmark the worst Hibs manager and team in living memory, and are dancing in the streets because we're doing marginally better.

Agree with this. If at the start of the season we had bricked up both goals, promised fans clean sheets at every home game thus amassing 19 home league points, some on here would have regarded that as progress. We need to start playing football in the proper manner again so we can be proud of our team. All we ever get is, it will be alright after the next window. We can't go on living behind a myth that by putting eight defenders on the pitch and hardly ever crossing the half way line that there has been progress made. Any football manager with Hibs budget could have made progress over last year, it really should be better.

[Stevie Reid]

More defeats than anyone bar the aforementioned whipping boys is a meaningful statistic.

St. Mirren have also lost as many as us.

How about the fact that only two teams in the league (one of them Celtic) have won more games than us? We have won as many games as the teams in second and fourth.

We are undoubtedly going through a very bad spell at the moment and much of the football recently has been really, really poor, but your criticisms (even dismissing the inaccurate information/statistics) are way over the top.

Our season could still derail spectacularly, or we could finish strongly - we have seen evidence of both sides of Hibs this season, sadly the form that could bring the former has been more prevalent of late, but we shall see.

And as for your continued claim that measuring this team against last season's has no basis, I find that crazy - comparing the performance, points and league position of the team from last season to this is entirely valid, how could it not be? Fenlon took over a mess, and by the end of this season we'll know just how much he has brought us on.

[khib70]

St. Mirren have also lost as many as us.

How about the fact that only two teams in the league (one of them Celtic) have won more games than us? We have won as many games as the teams in second and fourth.

We are undoubtedly going through a very bad spell at the moment and much of the football recently has been really, really poor, but your criticisms (even dismissing the inaccurate information/statistics) are way over the top.

Our season could still derail spectacularly, or we could finish strongly - we have seen evidence of both sides of Hibs this season, sadly the form that could bring the former has been more prevalent of late, but we shall see.

And as for your continued claim that measuring this team against last season's has no basis, I find that crazy - comparing the performance, points and league position of the team from last season to this is entirely valid, how could it not be? Fenlon took over a mess, and by the end of this season we'll know just how much he has brought us on.
We will indeed know, Stevie, and believe me I hope you're right and I'm wrong. The next few weeks will be crucial

[Stevie Reid]

We will indeed know, Stevie, and believe me I hope you're right and I'm wrong. The next few weeks will be crucial

I don't know what will happen, so even if we get what we all want I couldn't then say I was right - I just think that Fenlon's overall record (despite recent disappointments in both results and style of play) and the rebuilding job he has done so far has earned him until at least the end of this season for serious appraisal.

I can see why people are seriously concerned though, obviously. I'm seriously concerned myself.

[Elephant Stone]

Hitting last seasons points total by January is worth bleating on about when there's people suggesting little or no progress has been made.

:agree:

People can complain about whatever they like. The absolute fact of the matter is that last season we were the second worst team in the league; as it stands, we're 5th best in the league and with every chance of finishing second, third, or fourth. We're also 90 minutes away from another Scottish cup semi final.

I ****ing hate this slow progression nonsense.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The fact that sevco were replaced by a team who were preparing for life in SFL1 would make comparisons between last season and what is going on this season as pointless.

The entire structure of the league has changed, there is now only 1 dominant team in the league with another 11 taking points from each other.

The fact that we have already passed last seasons total is down to this more than us being a work in progress as far as I can see.

Still, the infrastructure remains in place so it'll soon be time to reap the rewards!

[Jones28]

Jeez, same old stuff post after post.

Last night was not "a blip" it was the culmination of months of decline. It had been coming for ages.

"Hard to beat". Aye right. Losing twice to a team 16 points adrift at the bottom. Turned over major style at home by St Johnstone. This argument is just plain garbage. As a way of justifying the dreadful football we've had to suffer, it just doesn't cut it. Far from being hard to beat, most teams in the league would happily play us every week - including Dundee.

But keep repeating the same few desperate cliches. It makes you a bigger and better fan, don't you know and anyone who disagrees is a yam.....


Is this in reference to the winter slump that we have every season bar none, during which we have had some pretty good results: beating and drawing with Hearts, beating Celtic and beating Aberdeen, beating St Johnstone away.


The way people go on about how this season you would think our first few games of the season had never happened, or as though they were from some bygone age to which we can never go back because we're not good enough.

What do people think "progress" means? Does it mean being up to fourth in the league? Or is that not good enough? Does it mean getting to the quarter final of the scottish cup AGAIN? Or is that still not good enough?

We might not be playing the best football of the season at the moment (it has been awful) but we have seen flashes of what we are capable this season (the 2 goals against dundee united to say the least) and thats is at least a positive.

[Golden Bear]

There's "progress" then there is "sustained progress" and that's something we've not achieved.

As far as form goes, we're not back to where we finished last season but we're fast heading that way.

[Fergus52]

Didn't make anything up. Just misread the stats and didn't check the post properly. My bad and I apologise.
It should be 4 points out of 9 against the team adrift at the bottom. Obviously that's worldbeating form and no grounds for concern.

And when will you get it into your head that nobody's degrading the club. We may have different ideas from you about what's happening right now, but everyone on here wants the best for Hibs and the fans. Criticising the manager is not degrading the club. What's degrading the club now is dull, negative football, tactical ineptitude and poor results. People are not prepared to accept that because they care about the club.

The real statistical manipulation around here comes from those who take as a benchmark the worst Hibs manager and team in living memory, and are dancing in the streets because we're doing marginally better.

Never once said that only taking four points from Dundee was good, all I said was that they haven't beaten us twice.

I'm not happy with how Hibs have played recently, but I'm not slitting my wrists about it.

I don't take a hissy fit every time we hit a bad run of form, if that makes me a happy clapper then I'm happy to be one

[J-C]

The response Fenlon now gets from his players in the next match will be crucial to his future at the club. The team played awfully on monday and he's came out and stated that the fans were cheated by the performance, we'll now see his managerial skills in work and hopefully the kick up the erse they need to get them back on track. He also needs to show some development himself re his tactical nous, get players playing in the right position and in the right shape, playing a 4-5-1 which was successful earlier this season, getting Cairney in the middle and playing wingers on their correct side. We cried out for width, he brought in a left sided winger and played him on the right, unfortunately Done kept cutting inside so the width was lost, did the same with Sproule ( who now plays at Ross C on the correct side and is thriving )

[ehf]

The response Fenlon now gets from his players in the next match will be crucial to his future at the club. The team played awfully on monday and he's came out and stated that the fans were cheated by the performance, we'll now see his managerial skills in work and hopefully the kick up the erse they need to get them back on track. He also needs to show some development himself re his tactical nous, get players playing in the right position and in the right shape, playing a 4-5-1 which was successful earlier this season, getting Cairney in the middle and playing wingers on their correct side. We cried out for width, he brought in a left sided winger and played him on the right, unfortunately Done kept cutting inside so the width was lost, did the same with Sproule ( who now plays at Ross C on the correct side and is thriving )

That's what worries me...

[Golden Bear]

The response Fenlon now gets from his players in the next match will be crucial to his future at the club. The team played awfully on monday and he's came out and stated that the fans were cheated by the performance, we'll now see his managerial skills in work and hopefully the kick up the erse they need to get them back on track. He also needs to show some development himself re his tactical nous, get players playing in the right position and in the right shape, playing a 4-5-1 which was successful earlier this season, getting Cairney in the middle and playing wingers on their correct side. We cried out for width, he brought in a left sided winger and played him on the right, unfortunately Done kept cutting inside so the width was lost, did the same with Sproule ( who now plays at Ross C on the correct side and is thriving )

:agree:

I'm still not convinced about the merits of 4-5-1 but I totally agree with the rest of your post.

[J-C]

:agree:

I'm still not convinced about the merits of 4-5-1 but I totally agree with the rest of your post.

4-5-1 played with 2 decent wide men turns into a 4-3-3 when attacking but you need them to put a shift in.

[Golden Bear]

4-5-1 played with 2 decent wide men turns into a 4-3-3 when attacking but you need them to put a shift in.

That's the theory!

[number9dream]

4-5-1 played with 2 decent wide men turns into a 4-3-3 when attacking but you need them to put a shift in.

Agree with that. But do we have two "decent wide men"?
Done is new and finding his feet. Who else can bomb up and down the other flank?

Fenlon needs to find a system that suits the players we have. Two solid banks of four and two up top (close to each other!) might be our best bet. Given the rank performances of late, the gaffer will be scratching his head for solutions. B
ut that's what he gets the big bucks for...

[J-C]

I've said it numerous times, with our squad a 4-2-3-1 system is best for us.
Claros/Deegan and Taiwo/Robertson as the holders/cm, Cairney in the middle, Done and Doyle wide and Griffiths up top.

[Dav1986]

Didn't make anything up. Just misread the stats and didn't check the post properly. My bad and I apologise.

It should be 4 points out of 9 against the team adrift at the bottom. Obviously that's worldbeating form and no grounds for concern.

And when will you get it into your head that nobody's degrading the club. We may have different ideas from you about what's happening right now, but everyone on here wants the best for Hibs and the fans. Criticising the manager is not degrading the club. What's degrading the club now is dull, negative football, tactical ineptitude and poor results. People are not prepared to accept that because they care about the club.

The real statistical manipulation around here comes from those who take as a benchmark the worst Hibs manager and team in living memory, and are dancing in the streets because we're doing marginally better.

In the interests of fairness and balance, surely you should also point out that we have gained 4 points out of 6 against last seasons champions and the team that are currently running away with the league?

Talking about statistical manipulation....

[darwenhibby]

I've said it numerous times, with our squad a 4-2-3-1 system is best for us.
Claros/Deegan and Taiwo/Robertson as the holders/cm, Cairney in the middle, Done and Doyle wide and Griffiths up top.

The same system we played at tannadice in August?
A standard 442 with everyone playing in their position or 4411 which a lot of folk think cairney could be used in. Spooney Done wide claros and one other in centre.

[Jones28]

4-1-3-2

Williams
Clancy mcpake Hanlon lb
Deegan
Wotherspoon cairney done
Doyle griffiths


Why not? :greengrin:

[J-C]

The same system we played at tannadice in August?
A standard 442 with everyone playing in their position or 4411 which a lot of folk think cairney could be used in. Spooney Done wide claros and one other in centre.


Ah the standard 4-4-2 we played against S Johnstone, aye that worked out well :confused:

Until our central mids step up we need 3 in the middle to compete with other teams, whether that is 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1, either way it gives us enough numbers there.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

We have a few issues in our team.

Our defence is fine so it should just stay Clancy, McPake, Hanlon and McGivern.

Problems arise as we now have no real right winger and Wotherpoon on a strange run of form. I still think he is the best option but Handling has looked ok in that role.

I would probably go with Done, Robertson, Claros and Handling (left to right)

Up front Doyle is like carrying an extra man and has no outstanding attributes so Griffiths is out only option. Cairney also HAS to play as he is the only player in our team that can make a defence splitting pass. However, he can't run the length of himself so I would play him behind Griffiths in a free role/ Rooney type role.

[Northernhibee]

Three tips to Hampden in two years. Not good enough Pat.

Fenlon out, Fenlon in.

[Jack Hackett]

Has he no been punted yet?

Get it sorted Petrie :greengrin

[hfc rd]

When's Terry Butcher getting appointed? :)

[JCHibby]

I slaughtered Fenlon after the St J game, I mentioned sort the football out or your oot on yer erchie. I have watched three games since and the passing, movement, pressure has been different class. Pat your doing a grand job, I am eating humble, keep it going and this massive green and white army will follow.

Let the good times roll!!!:flag:

[Fergus52]

I slaughtered Fenlon after the St J game, I mentioned sort the football out or your oot on yer erchie. I have watched three games since and the passing, movement, pressure has been different class. Pat your doing a grand job, I am eating humble, keep it going and this massive green and white army will follow.

Let the good times roll!!!:flag:

Good post mate!

There's a good few other posters who should also be following suit :cb

[JCHibby]

Good post mate!

There's a good few other posters who should also be following suit :cb

You watch today, the fans, the way the team played, the passion, this a club ready to burst and really take off. Pat dont stop doing what your doing keep this team going... I am freeeeking loving Hibs, that was a very controlled professional performance.

Even after the United Draw, wan't bothered, the way the played was amazing and they are just progressing from there. Good times!!

Are they burst yet? :cb

[Gmack7]

we look a much better team away from ER. bodes well for hampden trips [plural]
4 5 1 defo suits us.keep up the good work:hibees

[Northernhibee]

All through this season we've kept seeing "The jury's still out", "the jury's still out" on PF as our manager.

We've now had nearly a year and a half of PF now, more than enough time to make judgment on him.

First of all, I don't blame PF for the final last year and firmly believe that he didn't deserve that at all. He inherited an utter mess of a club that had been decimated in all areas by Colin Calderwood. We all laugh at John McGlynn, but Calderwood was a much worse manager. If we'd lost 2-1 in the semi final to Aberdeen PF wouldn't have had nearly as much stick as he's had.

Although we've not consistently played the best football through this season, we've shown enough that we're really progressing, especially with Robertson in the team and up to match fitness. We're able to pass the ball about and cause any opposition a problem. We've defeated Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell (0-4 as well) and have shown that we are a good match for anybody.

His signings have been mostly astute. Williams, McPake, Deegan, Robertson, Claros, Doyle, McGivern etc. are at worst good solid SPL players and at best outstanding talents. He's had the odd clanger (Kuqi) but you can usually see where he was coming from, as opposed to when the likes of Agogo were signed.

Some say that we're a one man team (Sparky) but you have to remember that before PF arrived Griffiths was good but ultimately never going to be a world beater. Fenlon has brought Sparky on so much the difference from when he joined the club is remarkable. I work with a former LOI player who speaks incredibly highly of Fenlon and his abilities to get the best out of his team.

We had a bit of a slump in the middle of the season where fatigue and injuries took their toll but to his credit he's changed us about and brought a renewed energy to the club just when we needed it. He appears intent on building a good relationship with the fans as well, something we've not had in a while.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what we can achieve in the rest of this season and if PF can keep the improvement I'm practically salivating at the thought of what we can achieve in seasons to come.

GGTTH

[bingo70]

I know people laugh at the line but progress is being made, it'd be wrong to proclaim him a success because of a good win like its wrong to write him off after a bad loss.

I'm happy with the progress that's being made, hopefully this cup run will cut him a bit slack the next time we have a bad result which I'm sure won't be far away.

[Seveno]

All through this season we've kept seeing "The jury's still out", "the jury's still out" on PF as our manager.

We've now had nearly a year and a half of PF now, more than enough time to make judgment on him.

First of all, I don't blame PF for the final last year and firmly believe that he didn't deserve that at all. He inherited an utter mess of a club that had been decimated in all areas by Colin Calderwood. We all laugh at John McGlynn, but Calderwood was a much worse manager. If we'd lost 2-1 in the semi final to Aberdeen PF wouldn't have had nearly as much stick as he's had.

Although we've not consistently played the best football through this season, we've shown enough that we're really progressing, especially with Robertson in the team and up to match fitness. We're able to pass the ball about and cause any opposition a problem. We've defeated Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell (0-4 as well) and have shown that we are a good match for anybody.

His signings have been mostly astute. Williams, McPake, Deegan, Robertson, Claros, Doyle, McGivern etc. are at worst good solid SPL players and at best outstanding talents. He's had the odd clanger (Kuqi) but you can usually see where he was coming from, as opposed to when the likes of Agogo were signed.

Some say that we're a one man team (Sparky) but you have to remember that before PF arrived Griffiths was good but ultimately never going to be a world beater. Fenlon has brought Sparky on so much the difference from when he joined the club is remarkable. I work with a former LOI player who speaks incredibly highly of Fenlon and his abilities to get the best out of his team.

We had a bit of a slump in the middle of the season where fatigue and injuries took their toll but to his credit he's changed us about and brought a renewed energy to the club just when we needed it. He appears intent on building a good relationship with the fans as well, something we've not had in a while.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what we can achieve in the rest of this season and if PF can keep the improvement I'm practically salivating at the thought of what we can achieve in seasons to come.

GGTTH

Good post. Sums up things rather well.

[rcarter1]

Great summary. Ive had some real concerns with a lot of our performances this season, but always hoped that Fenlon was able to see the deficiencies in the team. The last few weeks has convinced me that he is getting the balance right - and knows what he is doing. His grit and competitive spirit really shows, and I think this will be a great attribute overall and in the derbies (providing they continue after this season). I supported Pat after the final, as did many, and the fact that he took it so hard showed his commitment to the job. I hope we as a support are able to give him and the players a bit of appreciation from the terrace, as the season comes to an exciting conclusion. Really cant wait for the derby, gutted to miss it as on a stag do, will be landing in Edinburgh just as the match finishes.....

[GlenrothesHibee]

Big fan of Fenlon. Already dreading the day he leaves

[jacomo]

Good post mate!

There's a good few other posters who should also be following suit :cb

I ate my humble pie back in the autumn, thanks very much. :cb

:greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

I think PF is just really getting started. He's shown his old school professionalism by constructing a strong 'spine' to the team with Williams-McPake-Claros-Griffiths. Yes, there will be setbacks on the way and we're going to lose players etc etc but the club, in my opinion, is in very good hands and poised to be regularly challenging for European slots and domestic cups.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think PF is just really getting started. He's shown his old school professionalism by constructing a strong 'spine' to the team with Williams-McPake-Claros-Griffiths. Yes, there will be setbacks on the way and we're going to lose players etc etc but the club, in my opinion, is in very good hands and poised to be regularly challenging for European slots and domestic cups.

Spot on Bob, we need to support him and his team, they wont always get it right but they are on the right road. Every window we get stronger, there's no reason to presume that wont happen again this summer.

Lets get behind the club now and in the summer and buy a season ticket, lets get easter road as full as we can and lets get the new fit sexy bird rocking. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Spot on Bob, we need to support him and his team, they wont always get it right but they are on the right road. Every window we get stronger, there's no reason to presume that wont happen again this summer.

Lets get behind the club now and in the summer and buy a season ticket, lets get easter road as full as we can and lets get the new fit sexy bird rocking. :greengrin

:tee hee:

[ronaldo7]

Pat thanks the fans as he gets ready for them.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/pat-fenlon-focuses-is-on-hibs-v-hearts-1-2819319

[Saorsa]

:pfgwa that is all :flag:

[Beefster]

I know people laugh at the line but progress is being made, it'd be wrong to proclaim him a success because of a good win like its wrong to write him off after a bad loss.

This is the problem. We've got folk going suicidal after a defeat and folk peeing themselves with excitement after a win.

I do like how old threads, either wanting Fenlon sacked or knighted, are dragged up after every game though so that one extreme can get one over on the other extreme. Never gets old.

[blackpoolhibs]

This is the problem. We've got folk going suicidal after a defeat and folk peeing themselves with excitement after a win.

I do like how old threads, either wanting Fenlon sacked or knighted, are dragged up after every game though so that one extreme can get one over on the other extreme. Never gets old.

I disagree, nobody is pissing themselves with excitement or wanting him knighted, just more and more folk every week aknowleging the small steps in progress him and his team are making. We have less folk wetting the bed these days though, but after every defeat you do see a few venting their spleen as if happy we have not won, which going by their posts its only them who don't like losing?

[MrSmith]

I disagree, nobody is pissing themselves with excitement or wanting him knighted, just more and more folk every week aknowleging the small steps in progress him and his team are making. We have less folk wetting the bed these days though, but after every defeat you do see a few venting their spleen as if happy we have not won, which going by their posts its only them who don't like losing?

He is never going to keep everybody happy! However, the simple facts are there, Hibs are progressing and doing well under his tenure. I for one am pleased and long may it continue.

[Saorsa]

I disagree, nobody is pissing themselves with excitement or wanting him knighted, just more and more folk every week aknowleging the small steps in progress him and his team are making. We have less folk wetting the bed these days though, but after every defeat you do see a few venting their spleen as if happy we have not won, which going by their posts its only them who don't like losing?This. I dinnae see anyone getting over excited, just people who are happy tae acknowledge the progress being made. I'm happy with the progress that is being made and refuse tae get my knickers in a twist efter a defeat, that disnae mean I'm happy tae lose. We winnae get it right all the time and mistakes will be made, people who think otherwise are being unrealistic, it's a work in progress and progressing we most certainly are. There are however some people on here who never seem tae appear unless there is something tae bump their gums about and never seen when there is a good result like yesterdays worthy of praise.

[JimBHibees]

This. I dinnae see anyone getting over excited, just people who are happy tae acknowledge the progress being made. I'm happy with the progress that is being made and refuse tae get my knickers in a twist efter a defeat, that disnae mean I'm happy tae lose. We winnae get it right all the time and mistakes will be made, people who think otherwise are being unrealistic, it's a work in progress and progressing we most certainly are. There are however some people on here who never seem tae appear unless there is something tae bump their gums about and never seen when there is a good result like yesterdays worthy of praise.

Word for word. :top marks