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erskine-hibby
11-02-2013, 11:04 PM
A bit of a knee jerk reaction perhaps, but watching that performance tonight was like watching most games from last season. Can there really be true progress if the football now is much the same as last season??? Had this been a one off then maybe, but let's be honest we have had many of these games this season, even though we have won some of them. So once again, is it really true progress, or yet another false dawn???

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2013, 11:07 PM
How many points did we have this time last season?

DaveF
11-02-2013, 11:11 PM
How many points did we have this time last season?

We might not end up with a whole lot more than last season if we carry on like this.

There is no doubt that the OP is correct. Recent games have been a mirror of last season. The annoying, frustrating thing for me is that we did play some decent stuff early on, but its vanished to be replacec by negative, boring, disorganised rubbish.

We are not progressing anymore.

erskine-hibby
11-02-2013, 11:13 PM
How many points did we have this time last season?
This does not answer my question. Can there be TRUE progress if the football on offer is the same??

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2013, 11:21 PM
We might not end up with a whole lot more than last season if we carry on like this.

There is no doubt that the OP is correct. Recent games have been a mirror of last season. The annoying, frustrating thing for me is that we did play some decent stuff early on, but its vanished to be replacec by negative, boring, disorganised rubbish.

We are not progressing anymore.


This does not answer my question. Can there be TRUE progress if the football on offer is the same??

There is no reason why we cant improve on tonight, and indeed our last few weeks poor fare. We started the season well, and picked up more points than we got for the whole of last season.

Of course its progress, but the slump in form is alarming but not insurmountable. We have a few new players, and while not great tonight they could click like we did earlier in the season?

Last season we were adrift of the pack, now we are in the pack. Progress, although with TQM leaving the sinking ship now, i cant see any way back? :faf:

hihohibby
11-02-2013, 11:24 PM
We will only have truly progressed if we finish higher than 11th place. We are currently showing 'relegation' type form ( 1 win in 10 games)but still find ourselves a mere few points off 2nd spot. We have amassed more points than last season, but performances are mostly eye bleeding, dire affairs. Thank goodness for a pitiful Dundee, who are practically guaranteed 12th spot.

erskine-hibby
11-02-2013, 11:28 PM
There is no reason why we cant improve on tonight, and indeed our last few weeks poor fare. We started the season well, and picked up more points than we got for the whole of last season.

Of course its progress, but the slump in form is alarming but not insurmountable. We have a few new players, and while not great tonight they could click like we did earlier in the season?

Last season we were adrift of the pack, now we are in the pack. Progress, although with TQM leaving the sinking ship now, i cant see any way back? :faf:

There is little to argue with your logic, though given a few, and I mean VERY few more games like tonight and we could very well find ourselves in the same position we were in last season.

HUTCHYHIBBY
11-02-2013, 11:34 PM
Are we where we are in the league cos we've improved or cos other teams are worse than last season? Whatever the truth is, its eye bleedingly gash to watch.

Jim44
11-02-2013, 11:36 PM
.................. and don't forget we reached the Cup Final last year. Little chance of that happening this year.

erskine-hibby
11-02-2013, 11:56 PM
.................. and don't forget we reached the Cup Final last year. Little chance of that happening this year.

I would say NO CHANCE of that happening.

HFC 0-7
12-02-2013, 12:06 AM
I think we are making slow progress. I had thought that Fenlon had just been trying to make us harder to beat but we are still losing a lot, only Dundee have lost more than us. I think we still have problems with attitude in the team and I think that the board and Fenlon would have expected us to have made a bit more progress.

When the manager says things like the fact we are still in the hunt for second and in the Scottish cup means nothing and that people need to get their heads round that is a sign that attitudes are still not right. I think Fenlon has reacted the most to this defeat than any other this season.

matty_f
12-02-2013, 12:18 AM
I think we are making slow progress. I had thought that Fenlon had just been trying to make us harder to beat but we are still losing a lot, only Dundee have lost more than us. I think we still have problems with attitude in the team and I think that the board and Fenlon would have expected us to have made a bit more progress.

When the manager says things like the fact we are still in the hunt for second and in the Scottish cup means nothing and that people need to get their heads round that is a sign that attitudes are still not right. I think Fenlon has reacted the most to this defeat than any other this season.
:agree: Good post.

Hibby 2005
12-02-2013, 12:25 AM
The final scoreline tonight could easily have been 5 or 6 goals to 1 and we were aiming to win at home in a game that could have seen us go second in the league.

Pat Fenlon has made mistakes but he's also inherited the problems of the past, players who think they're better than they are.

TrickyNicky
12-02-2013, 01:14 AM
I think we are making slow progress. I had thought that Fenlon had just been trying to make us harder to beat but we are still losing a lot, only Dundee have lost more than us. I think we still have problems with attitude in the team and I think that the board and Fenlon would have expected us to have made a bit more progress.

When the manager says things like the fact we are still in the hunt for second and in the Scottish cup means nothing and that people need to get their heads round that is a sign that attitudes are still not right. I think Fenlon has reacted the most to this defeat than any other this season.

I agree.

I think the problem is confidence and belief in each other and we haven't had an attacking midfielder who knows how to really run the show for too long now.

erskine-hibby
12-02-2013, 07:11 AM
The final scoreline tonight could easily have been 5 or 6 goals to 1 and we were aiming to win at home in a game that could have seen us go second in the league.

Pat Fenlon has made mistakes but he's also inherited the problems of the past, players who think they're better than they are.

I can't agree with the last statement. What players has he got left in the squad that aren't his, or the ones he rates??

Pete
12-02-2013, 07:23 AM
I would say NO CHANCE of that happening.

Disagree. We have EVERY chance!

Of course, it depends what hibs team turns up.

Houchy
12-02-2013, 07:27 AM
How many points did we have this time last season?

Not really a great stat for comparing. With no rangers in the league, the points accrued by the ugly sisters that would usually finish 2nd have been spread throughout the rest of the teams meaning, while we have got more points, so has everyone else. No team has grasped 2nd like the OF usually do, so in comparison, while we have more points, we're really not much better off than last year and, unfortunately, on current form, I can see us finishing bottom 6 again and quite feasibly 11th.

Still, it could be worse, we could be hearts.

IWasThere2016
12-02-2013, 07:29 AM
Pat Fenlon has made mistakes but he's also inherited the problems of the past, players who think they're better than they are.

How many players there tonight were signed by recent managers - CC and Yogi?

SMAXXA
12-02-2013, 07:32 AM
I know we can't single anyone out and pinpoint this as the reason but I can't help feeling our recent loss of form has come at a similar time to Cairney losing all form and defenders knowing how to play him. I'd also say to a lesser degree Doyle, chen those 2 were on song we were creating and they were contributing assists and a few goals.

Can we regain the form that got us into 2nd, yes we can. Will we, I'm less convinced but still hopefull.

blackpoolhibs
12-02-2013, 07:33 AM
Each and every player bar Done imo were poor. Our movement, passing and commitment was 2nd best last night and that result hopefully is the kick up the erse they needed.

Fenlon said after the game he was angry, and that performance was unacceptable. I'm certainly looking for a reaction, they owe us big time.

We need our front player or players if playing 2 up front to bloody hold the ball up, unless we can do this we will struggle to get far enough up the park to dictate play. I see some folk giving Griffiths pass marks yesterday, i personally thought he was terrible, and along with Doyle about as much use as Anne Franks drum.

Our midfield and defense were also poor, but they must be sick to the back teeth of seeing balls played up to the front, and it coming back so quickly every time?

Pete
12-02-2013, 07:34 AM
How many players there tonight were signed by recent managers - CC and Yogi?

Maybe it isn't the same players but it's players with the same attitudes.

Maybe Pat has misjudged one or two and it's time to do what he's threatened to do...chuck some kids in. They might put up more of a fight in these games which some players simply don't fancy.

Gatecrasher
12-02-2013, 07:45 AM
Each and every player bar Done imo were poor. Our movement, passing and commitment was 2nd best last night and that result hopefully is the kick up the erse they needed.

Fenlon said after the game he was angry, and that performance was unacceptable. I'm certainly looking for a reaction, they owe us big time.

We need our front player or players if playing 2 up front to bloody hold the ball up, unless we can do this we will struggle to get far enough up the park to dictate play. I see some folk giving Griffiths pass marks yesterday, i personally thought he was terrible, and along with Doyle about as much use as Anne Franks drum.

Our midfield and defense were also poor, but they must be sick to the back teeth of seeing balls played up to the front, and it coming back so quickly every time?
That's a big problem we have IMO, we lose the ball far too easily, partly down to the tactic of punting the ball up to griffths who can only do so much with the height he is.

blackpoolhibs
12-02-2013, 08:01 AM
That's a big problem we have IMO, we lose the ball far too easily, partly down to the tactic of punting the ball up to griffths who can only do so much with the height he is.

I think its a huge problem, and i personally think Kuqi was probably brought to the club to address this, but he's not been up to the job?

If the rumours about John Daly are correct, Fenlon see's this too but might have to wait til the summer to bring that type of player in?

jeffers
12-02-2013, 08:14 AM
I think its a huge problem, and i personally think Kuqi was probably brought to the club to address this, but he's not been up to the job?

If the rumours about John Daly are correct, Fenlon see's this too but might have to wait til the summer to bring that type of player in?

Can't disagree with the bit about Kuqi, he was a player maybe even as recent as last season, but he's now just taking up a wage. We've persisted with hoofball to two strikers who are smallish, lightweight and not particularly great in the air. So during the transfer window rather than addressing this we sign another central midfielder, while Hearts and St Mirren manage to sign front men. Yes we signed a winger but given how few men we actually get into the box I wonder who he is expected to cross it for.

JimBHibees
12-02-2013, 08:16 AM
Each and every player bar Done imo were poor. Our movement, passing and commitment was 2nd best last night and that result hopefully is the kick up the erse they needed.

Fenlon said after the game he was angry, and that performance was unacceptable. I'm certainly looking for a reaction, they owe us big time.

We need our front player or players if playing 2 up front to bloody hold the ball up, unless we can do this we will struggle to get far enough up the park to dictate play. I see some folk giving Griffiths pass marks yesterday, i personally thought he was terrible, and along with Doyle about as much use as Anne Franks drum.

Our midfield and defense were also poor, but they must be sick to the back teeth of seeing balls played up to the front, and it coming back so quickly every time?

Completely agree the movement of the front two was absolutely horrific, dont think they linked up once and certainly didnt work together. Done put a decent ball in the first half and Doyle was standing at the edge of the box instead of making a run either front or back. I know they didnt get good service (understatement) however they didnt create any space themselves with their movement and certainly didnt hold the ball up at all.

Cod Boy
12-02-2013, 08:19 AM
Hoof ball to Griffiths midfield not good enough to create chances. But let's get on Griffiths back deary me

blackpoolhibs
12-02-2013, 08:23 AM
Hoof ball to Griffiths midfield not good enough to create chances. But let's get on Griffiths back deary me

Personally i don't think anyone is immune from flack after that display yesterday, not even Griffiths. Did you think he played well? And as for Doyle, he was even worse, whats your opinion of his performance?

Do you think their movement was good yesterday, do you think they got the ball down and brought the midfield into play enough?

Cod Boy
12-02-2013, 08:29 AM
Dont think Doyle is good enough. Fenlon should have addressed this problem in the window but never and it will come back to bite him in the mark McGraws

jeffers
12-02-2013, 08:29 AM
Personally i don't think anyone is immune from flack after that display yesterday, not even Griffiths. Did you think he played well? And as for Doyle, he was even worse, whats your opinion of his performance?

Do you think their movement was good yesterday, do you think they got the ball down and brought the midfield into play enough?

Griffiths has had better games, no arguments there, but it's hard to bring the ball down when it's getting fired 6 foot in the air at you. Agreed Doyle was poor but I go bck to my point about not signing a striker in the window. We take Doyle off and revert to one up front when we are 3-0 down and hoof the ball up to our remaining striker while our midfield crowd the area just beyond the halfway line.

IWasThere2016
12-02-2013, 08:30 AM
Maybe it isn't the same players but it's players with the same attitudes.

Maybe Pat has misjudged one or two and it's time to do what he's threatened to do...chuck some kids in. They might put up more of a fight in these games which some players simply don't fancy.

We were told that would stop too! :rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
12-02-2013, 08:36 AM
Griffiths has had better games, no arguments there, but it's hard to bring the ball down when it's getting fired 6 foot in the air at you. Agreed Doyle was poor but I go bck to my point about not signing a striker in the window. We take Doyle off and revert to one up front when we are 3-0 down and hoof the ball up to our remaining striker while our midfield crowd the area just beyond the halfway line.

I think folk say something enough times and it sticks, we did support the forwards yesterday, thats why they were able to run through the middle of our midfield so easily at times.

Done and Robertson were up supporting Griffiths and Doyle all first half, even Deegan a couple of times, but its been said we have a midfield that wont cross the half way line that many times, its now become a fact?

In the 2nd half, Cairney played a few ball up to Griffiths in space and with time as did Done, but his first instinct is to turn and shoot, not what we need all the time?

jeffers
12-02-2013, 08:54 AM
I think folk say something enough times and it sticks, we did support the forwards yesterday, thats why they were able to run through the middle of our midfield so easily at times.

Done and Robertson were up supporting Griffiths and Doyle all first half, even Deegan a couple of times, but its been said we have a midfield that wont cross the half way line that many times, its now become a fact?

In the 2nd half, Cairney played a few ball up to Griffiths in space and with time as did Done, but his first instinct is to turn and shoot, not what we need all the time?

OK slight exaggeration, although I didn't say our midfield never cross the halfway line, but when do you ever see them breaking their neck to get on to the end of a chance ? I didn't see much support for our strikers last night, and I almost forgot Robertson was playing he was so little involved. We created almost nothing last night (other than the goal I can't remember another shot on target) Should Sparky have passed more with the few passes he did get played to feet ? Yeah he probably should but considering the other 9 outfield players on the park at the end of the game have scored around 5 goals in total this season I can't really blame him for feeling he had to take a shot on.

PeeJay
12-02-2013, 08:55 AM
Done and Robertson were up supporting Griffiths and Doyle all first half, even Deegan a couple of times, but its been said we have a midfield that wont cross the half way line that many times, its now become a fact?



Looked to me like they were all often in the same half, but "supporting" seems too favourable an interpretation of what was actually going on for me. Griffiths having to run back into his own half to get the ball says enough to me! The new guys achieved nothing decisive last night, give em points for effort, but otherwise. As to Doyle and Griffiths, they never seem to have the slightest idea of what channels they will each run into (often looks as if they have just met - perhaps they don't work on things like that in training?) - the rest of the team has even less of a clue, it either hoofs the ball to guys who simply do not win headers or we have guys like Deegan, Griffiths, etc. putting in wimpy crosses that either only just get off the ground or are roughly booted in a general direction of a green shirt, that everyone in the stadium can see usually hasn't arrived - punt in in: hope for the best, not a good strategy IMO.

Saw nothing last night in our team that indicated any game plan, creativity, team cohesion, motivation - rather than supporting each other they looked for long spells (like 90 minutes) as if they were on their own, unsure of what they were supposed to be doing and the guy on the sidelines, obviously unable to change anything only confirmed it afterwards in his usual pointless interview with "I dunno" and I don't have the answers" - figured that much myself Fenlon - cheers!