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Nailrod
10-02-2013, 01:43 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34

Sorry I should have explained. The top line is the number of goals scored in a game. The figures per club are the number of matches in which they've scored that number of goals. It's easiest to explain in terms of Hibs (unfortunately) http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/boo%20hoo.gif

Over 14 matches we have scored 0 goals in 6 games, 1 goal in 7 games, and 2 goals in 1 game, for a total of 9 goals scored in 14 games.

The Green Goblin
10-02-2013, 01:51 PM
That table may suggest a lack of goals overall, but doesn't take results into account, does it? For example, one of those games where we "only" scored one goal was a 1-0 win over Celtic.

Scouse Hibee
10-02-2013, 01:53 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34


Eh? Please explain

Ah now I get it.

lord bunberry
10-02-2013, 01:54 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34

I don't think things like this are very helpful. You are taking one aspect of our performances over a selected period. You need to look at the whole picture to get an accurate assessment of were we are. I do agree though that we need to start scoring more goals and I think we will

monktonharp
10-02-2013, 02:02 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34 does the 6 mean--played 6? and scored or won 7?? what is the 1? and 9 is points, is it?

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 02:02 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34

It just shows how much we've relied on Leigh Griffiths for the first part of the season. Now that he currently doesn't have his golden boots on, we're struggling big time for goals.

We've been playing far too deep since the goal rot and even although we've gotten away with it in a few of our games, it's been fairly bleak overall.

basehibby
10-02-2013, 02:06 PM
Thought I would take a look at how our performances compare with our rivals over the 14 matches since we started to struggle for goals on 17th November. It's even uglier than I had feared. The sooner the better would be a good time to start to change this unimpressive run:

..............0 goals 1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....Total

Hibs............6.....7.....1..................... .......9
Hearts.........5.....5.....4...................... ....13
Aberdeen.....6.....3.....4.....1.................. ..14
Dundee........6.....5.....1.....1............1.... ..15
Saint J.........4.....5.....3.....2...................17
Ross Co.......2.....7.....3.....1......1............20
Killie............1.....6.....6.....1............. .......21
Saint M........3.....3.....5.....2.....1.............23
Well............3.....4.....2.....3......1.....1.. ....26
ICT.............2.....4.....3.....4......2........ ....28
D Utd..........1.....4.....3.....5......1.....1..... .34

It doesn't make impressive reading - but is pretty meaningless without an equivalent in the goals against and more importantly, the points gained categories.

Not disagreeing that we need to be scoring more - even if only for entertainment purposes - but for the purposes of measuring progress against last season's prolonged flirt with relegation it's results that are the most important factor.

Of course results should also improve if we score more goals so I too hope to see more of a goal threat for the remainder of the season. Maybe the recent addition of a couple of attack minded midfielders will make the difference - hopefully starting on Monday!

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 02:06 PM
does the 6 mean--played 6? and scored or won 7?? what is the 1? and 9 is points, is it?

The numbers in the table show how many goals we've scored in how many games since the 17th of November.

We've had 6 game's where we've scored 0 goals, 7 games where we've scored 1 goal and only 1 game where we've scored 2 goals.

The "9" is the total number of goals we've scored out of those 14 games.

Dundee Utd have scored nearly 4x as many goals over that period! :dizzy:

Nailrod
10-02-2013, 02:10 PM
does the 6 mean--played 6? and scored or won 7?? what is the 1? and 9 is points, is it?

OP edited to explain.

PatHead
10-02-2013, 02:12 PM
Statistics eh.

In that time Dundee Utd have scored 16 goals in games they haven't won and scored 5 of their goals in one game against Stranraer in the cup.

Nailrod
10-02-2013, 02:18 PM
Statistics eh.

In that time Dundee Utd have scored 16 goals in games they haven't won and scored 5 of their goals in one game against Stranraer in the cup.

Thank goodness somebody came along to explain that it's actually a bad idea to score lots of goals... :wink:

Houchy
10-02-2013, 02:24 PM
Statistics eh.

In that time Dundee Utd have scored 16 goals in games they haven't won and scored 5 of their goals in one game against Stranraer in the cup.

:agree::faf:

Houchy
10-02-2013, 02:31 PM
Thank goodness somebody came along to explain that it's actually a bad idea to score lots of goals... :wink:

I don't see where people are saying that scoring goals is a bad thing but where comparing statistics, you need to compare them to something tangible. I, like most on here would take a 1-0 win over a 6-6 draw of 5-4 defeat anytime. Stats can be misinterpreted and manipulated any way you like.:agree:

Good work but doesn't really mean much.

basehibby
10-02-2013, 02:31 PM
does the 6 mean--played 6? and scored or won 7?? what is the 1? and 9 is points, is it?

It's purely goals scored and shows that in the last 14 games Hibs have scored zero 6 times, 1 goal 7 times and a brace on 1 occasion - totalling 9.

To complete the analysis for Hibs at least over the same period Hibs have conceded as follows:
Clean sheets - 6
Conceded 1 - 5
Conceded 3 - 3 times
Total - 14 conceded

As for results, in the league we have Won 2 Drawn 4 Lost 6 - not good enough! - while in the Cup we have eliminated Hearts and Aberdeen (great stuff!)

To sum up, over the last 14 games, defensively we've not been bad at all - probably better than average. But as the OP points out we have hit a severe goal drought and it is hurting us in the league. PF has managed to make a couple of what look like good signings in an attempt to address this - will it be enough? Well I suppose we'll soon find out!

Treadstone
10-02-2013, 02:32 PM
Statistics eh.

In that time Dundee Utd have scored 16 goals in games they haven't won and scored 5 of their goals in one game against Stranraer in the cup.

Kind of agree that stats can be twisted any way you want to see them.

Two things stick out for me:

1. Our total, 9 in 14 games is poor.

2. Killie in the cup upcoming, one game they have failed to score in the last 14 and in half they have scored twice. Somethings gotta give!

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 02:39 PM
Points tally over the last 11 league games.

Motherwell WDWWWLWDLWL = 20 points
Inverness LWWWDWDDWLL = 18 points
St Mirren WDDLWDWDLWD = 17 points
Ross County DLLDLWWDWDW = 16 points
St Johnstone DWLDDLDDWLW = 14 points
Dundee Utd LWDLDLDWLDW = 13 points
Hearts DLWDWLDLWDL = 13 points
Kilmarnock LLWDWDDLDLW = 12 Points
Hibernian LWLLDLWDDDL = 10 points
Aberdeen LLLWLWDLDLD = 9 Points
Dundee LLDLLLLDDLL = 3 points

PatHead
10-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Thank goodness somebody came along to explain that it's actually a bad idea to score lots of goals... :wink:

Where did I say its a bad thing to score goals? Was it good when we scored 6 against Motherwell but never won. All I am pointing out is that you have to have balance. Statistics can be twisted too easily.

If I wanted I could say only 1 league defeat in our last 5 or negatively say 1 win in last 5 league games.

danhibees1875
10-02-2013, 02:42 PM
A win tomorrow puts us joint second.

:aok:

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 02:45 PM
A win tomorrow puts us joint second.

:aok:

Which looks great if you ignore the 2 games in hand that Motherwell and ICT will have. :wink:

greenlex
10-02-2013, 02:48 PM
Can you do it for the same number of games before the "rot" started for the sake of balance for whatever it is you are trying to achieve and maybe put them together to get a bigger picture?
The only stat I really care about at the moment is league position and cup run. Thanks.

Mikey
10-02-2013, 02:50 PM
Which looks great if you ignore the 2 games in hand that Motherwell and ICT will have. :wink:

You're determined to shoot down any positivity eh?

Treadstone
10-02-2013, 02:52 PM
Which looks great if you ignore the 2 games in hand that Motherwell and ICT will have. :wink:

Both teams will not win both games. Its that sort of league.

danhibees1875
10-02-2013, 02:54 PM
Which looks great if you ignore the 2 games in hand that Motherwell and ICT will have. :wink:

A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush amigo. :agree:

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 02:54 PM
You're determined to shoot down any positivity eh?

My apologies for pointing out a statistic. :rolleyes:

basehibby
10-02-2013, 02:55 PM
Can you do it for the same number of games before the "rot" started for the sake of balance for whatever it is you are trying to achieve and maybe put them together to get a bigger picture?
The only stat I really care about at the moment is league position and cup run. Thanks.

Ahem - I think you'll find that's called the League Table :greengrin

Nailrod
10-02-2013, 02:58 PM
Where did I say its a bad thing to score goals? Was it good when we scored 6 against Motherwell but never won. All I am pointing out is that you have to have balance. Statistics can be twisted too easily.

Actually, they can't. Otherwise it would be possible to prove that Dundee are not the only team who have taken fewer than the ten league points we've gathered over the corresponding 12 league matches.

lord bunberry
10-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Actually, they can't. Otherwise it would be possible to prove that Dundee are not the only team who have taken fewer than the ten league points we've gathered over the corresponding 12 league matches.


They can be twisted by limiting the size of your survey. I could give a more accurate reflection of how things are going its called the league table

Hibercelona
10-02-2013, 03:06 PM
They can be twisted by limiting the size of your survey. I could give a more accurate reflection of how things are going its called the league table

I could give an even more accurate reading than the league table. You could take all our league placings throughout history and work out the average for each club.

Statistics can drastically change, depending on how far you're willing to look back.

Mikey
10-02-2013, 03:09 PM
I could give an even more accurate reading than the league table. You could take all our league placings throughout history and work out the average for each club.

Statistics can drastically change, depending on how far you're willing to look back.

Our current league placing is higher than it's been in recent years yet you still won't acknowledge that there's been any progress.

Pretty Boy
10-02-2013, 03:10 PM
I could give an even more accurate reading than the league table. You could take all our league placings throughout history and work out the average for each club.

Statistics can drastically change, depending on how far you're willing to look back.

How would irrelevant data from previous seasons paint a more accurate picture of how this season is going?

greenlex
10-02-2013, 03:11 PM
I could give an even more accurate reading than the league table. You could take all our league placings throughout history and work out the average for each club.

Statistics can drastically change, depending on how far you're willing to look back.
..............and you will see how much we have underachieved over the years. We should be encouraging whats going on this season and try and build on it rather than actually taking time to look for negatives and highlight them. I really wonder how many actual Hibs fans use this board. :rolleyes:

Mikey
10-02-2013, 03:13 PM
..............and you will see how much we have underachieved over the years. We should be encouraging whats going on this season and try and build on it rather than actually taking time to look for negatives and highlight them. I really wonder how many actual Hibs fans use this board. :rolleyes:

I know it's hard to believe but this one's definitely a Hibby.

lord bunberry
10-02-2013, 03:15 PM
I could give an even more accurate reading than the league table. You could take all our league placings throughout history and work out the average for each club.

Statistics can drastically change, depending on how far you're willing to look back.

But why take the last 14 games why not take the last 5 or the last 10. Its a completely pointless way of pointing out that we've been struggling for goals. We all know we haven't been scoring we don't need people dreaming up new ways to point it out

J-C
10-02-2013, 03:39 PM
Points tally over the last 11 league games.

Motherwell WDWWWLWDLWL = 20 points
Inverness LWWWDWDDWLL = 18 points
St Mirren WDDLWDWDLWD = 17 points
Ross County DLLDLWWDWDW = 16 points
St Johnstone DWLDDLDDWLW = 14 points
Dundee Utd LWDLDLDWLDW = 13 points
Hearts DLWDWLDLWDL = 13 points
Kilmarnock LLWDWDDLDLW = 12 Points
Hibernian LWLLDLWDDDL = 10 points
Aberdeen LLLWLWDLDLD = 9 Points
Dundee LLDLLLLDDLL = 3 points

Not great reading there, when you look at Motherwell and Caley for instance, add that the lack of goals, you can see we still have a very long way to go yet.

JMac
10-02-2013, 03:53 PM
Look, all of us here want us to be a free flowing goal machine, BUT WE'RE NOT so stop complaining about our lack of goals. Fenlon has made us one of the hardest teams to score against and in turn beat, which is hugely different from last season. Being good defensively unfortunately sacrifices us scoring as many goals, still in the cup and 4th in the league, it can't be that bad, can it?

Mr White
10-02-2013, 04:10 PM
Id be happy if we only score 2 more goals this season- both in the Scottish cup for one nil wins at rugby park and then in the final (penalties win in the semi after a nil nil). I won't give a rats ass about any other stats if we're holding the cup come May.

RIP
10-02-2013, 11:45 PM
According to these stats we have only lost one game out of the past five. Including cup game it's actually only one loss in six. That loss was 0-1. The scorer was Ivan Sproule of Ross County. Ross County are the only unbeaten team during the same period. Even Celtic have lost more games than Hibs since Xmas

LeighLoyal
10-02-2013, 11:52 PM
Fenlon has improved us but it remains a frustrating experience supporting this club, I can see us stuttering along and just hanging on to top 6, maybe. Tomorrow will be a big test, if we fail then the players only have themselves to blame. I can see United taking third tbh, worth a punt at 6/1 on Bet365. Would like to back Hibs but my heart would be ruling my head. Hibs are not showing it.

MWHIBBIES
11-02-2013, 12:15 AM
Selective rubbish

jodjam
11-02-2013, 05:32 AM
I'm fairly sure if the day comes when all cancer is finally cured then hibercelona will come out with a stat of where scots sit in the heart attack league table.

Nailrod
12-02-2013, 01:07 PM
A win tomorrow puts us joint second.

:aok:

Just as well you didn't start celebrating 'the win that would put us joint second' too early.

5 points ahead of 11th place? I give this team third bottom by the end of the season.

But hey - It's 'progress', Jim, but not as we know it...

Hibercelona
12-02-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm fairly sure if the day comes when all cancer is finally cured then hibercelona will come out with a stat of where scots sit in the heart attack league table.

Why not?

Surely it would be great to find a cure that prevents heart attacks as well? :cb