PDA

View Full Version : How would people feel about Ian Murray returning as player/assistant manager?



Northernhibee
09-02-2013, 05:52 PM
Not a fan of players coming back for second/third spells, but after another victory today against Livi the boy is clearly a very talented manager or at least has the potential to be.

If he was to come in as assistant to Fenlon he'd get the chance to be 'manager in waiting' and learn even more about the running of a full time club and in a time where money is tight could be a back-up in defence, an area we are light on numbers.

The main concern is that a club down south takes a chance on him and he ends up way out of our price range.

Thoughts?

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 05:54 PM
No thanks, he's been in charge of Dumbarton for 5 minutes?

3pm
09-02-2013, 05:54 PM
Lots to prove yet. Player acquisition being one area he'd have had limited exposure to.

Signs are promising for him however!

matty_f
09-02-2013, 05:55 PM
Would think if he goes on to prove himself as a manager over a sustained period of time he could come and do the job properly rather than waiting in the wings missing out on gaining experience like he is getting now.

Golden Bear
09-02-2013, 06:04 PM
Far, far too early even to form an opinion.

HoboHarry
09-02-2013, 06:05 PM
I once scored a goal identical to the great Marco Van Basten volleyed effort for Holland. Should Hibs sign me as a striker?

worcesterhibby
09-02-2013, 06:11 PM
personally I think he'll learn far more, by being a manager in his own right, than by being some some of cinderella manager at ER

Baldy Foghorn
09-02-2013, 06:14 PM
He has done great at Dumbarton in a short period of time.....

Player/assistant manager:faf:? No chance, did you not see how his legs had gone in his second spell......Plus I am more than happy with our current coaching staff....

Steve20
09-02-2013, 06:15 PM
No thanks, he's been in charge of Dumbarton for 5 minutes?

I don't agree with alot of what blackpoolhibs says but I agree 100% with this. Far too early for that.

Hibby Bairn
09-02-2013, 06:19 PM
Alex Ferguson only spent 4 months in his first gig at East Stirling. Aged 32. :agree:

Saorsa
09-02-2013, 06:23 PM
Not a fan of players coming back for second/third spells, but after another victory today against Livi the boy is clearly a very talented manager or at least has the potential to be.

If he was to come in as assistant to Fenlon he'd get the chance to be 'manager in waiting' and learn even more about the running of a full time club and in a time where money is tight could be a back-up in defence, an area we are light on numbers.

The main concern is that a club down south takes a chance on him and he ends up way out of our price range.

Thoughts?I didnae realise we needed and assistant manager, I thought Pat had picked his own. As for the player bit, yer having a giraffe right? He's knackered. He's doing well just now but I think you're getting a bit carried away.

--------
09-02-2013, 06:24 PM
Far too early - best for him is to learn his trade at Dumbarton and elsewhere. Give him 5 years experience and if all goes well he'd be ready to come back.

Sir David Gray
09-02-2013, 06:26 PM
He's had a very encouraging start to life as a manager with Dumbarton and I wish him all the best in his role there.

However, he's only been in charge for a couple of months so it's far too early to say that he's going to go on and be a good manager.

If he's still getting impressive results in 5 or 6 years' time then, yes, by all means start the petitions for him to become the next Hibs manager and I'm sure the media will do that anyway, but at the moment I think he's doing just fine cutting his teeth in the lower leagues.

If he keeps Dumbarton in the first division this season, considering where they were when he took over, it'll be a massive achievement.

Treadstone
09-02-2013, 06:26 PM
Good to see him doing well, but lets have a bigger sample size.

Supermac
09-02-2013, 06:31 PM
I have nothing against Ian Murray whatsoever and I have to admit to looking for Dumbarton's result every week now! However I have to go with the consensus of opinion on here and say that it is far too early to look at him as an assistant manager when he has only been a manager there for a few weeks.

His playing days are over I think and we are better trying to blood new youngsters to bring in to the defence when necessary.

We have already had three former players as managers and none of them lasted long and Yogi and Mixu had much more experience than Ian Murray. We have also had an assistant manager who seemed to run out of patience waiting for Calamity to leave and who has since achieved good things on a shoestring budget elsewhere.

I would love to see Murray back as manager some time in the future if he can prove himself over the long term at other clubs.

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 06:34 PM
Fenlon out Murray in.

greenlex
09-02-2013, 06:35 PM
I once scored a goal identical to the great Marco Van Basten volleyed effort for Holland. Should Hibs sign me as a striker?
No you didnt. :rolleyes:

greenlex
09-02-2013, 06:36 PM
Alex Ferguson only spent 4 months in his first gig at East Stirling. Aged 32. :agree:
How did he get on?

HoboHarry
09-02-2013, 06:49 PM
No you didnt. :rolleyes:
Seriously, I did. Never did it again obviously and in fact I only scored 4 times in my entire career. That goal was true though, I drank an entire Saturday night for free from my team mates on the back of that goal :)

Northernhibee
09-02-2013, 07:09 PM
Fenlon out Murray in.

Here's the thought.

If Yogi who is at best an average manager can land a league one club, then if Ian keeps Dumbarton up and then continues the good form next season so can he.

I'm a big Fenlon fan, I work with a former LOI player who speaks incredibly highly of him but also describes LOI as a league of players who couldn't make it at the youth academies in England. The way that Scottish football is being run we're in danger of getting into the same scenario. A lot of us would like Lyle Taylor at Falkirk next season as he's scoring for fun, but truth be told we could already have missed the boat on him. If a championship club take a punt on 2.5k-3k on him (to them a pittance) then we won't match that on a player unproven at SPL level and neither will any other SPL team outwith Celtic.

In terms of staff and players if we want to have any chance of getting in quality personnel we need to strike very early and take a bit of a chance. Some signings will go against that rule but unless we want players who are on their way down in their career it's the only way we'll get players in with a decent resale value.

If in the summer we were to move for Ian as assistant manager I'd be delighted. He's shown early promise and I can't help thinking that if he continues that he'll be onto clubs offering bigger money than Hibs within a year and a half to two years. If we were to get him in as a young, hungry manager to learn about managing the backroom staff (he's said in an interview that he's even making the sandwiches for players at this stage), scouting and signing players and all the bits and pieces, he's ready to step in when Fenlon moves on (and given a good season next year there'll no doubt be higher paying clubs sniffing around for him).

For both staff and players in Scotland a season or two of potential is enough to earn a higher paying move down south (look at Ryan Fraser, Sparky when he was signed to an EPL team from Dundee etc). We need money and as such need to take chances on getting a couple of seasons of good performances out of our personnel followed by a decent transfer fee/compensation package, and I'd say that especially as Murray could learn from Fenlon for a season or two before we unleash him on a full time SPL club with more backroom staff to delegate tasks too he'd be a good risk worth taking as we might not be able to afford him come the end of next season.

As for the player thing - nothing more than backup for injury. Certainly not saying he's the answer for our defence as a starting player.

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2013, 07:12 PM
Not a fan of players coming back for second/third spells, but after another victory today against Livi the boy is clearly a very talented manager or at least has the potential to be.

If he was to come in as assistant to Fenlon he'd get the chance to be 'manager in waiting' and learn even more about the running of a full time club and in a time where money is tight could be a back-up in defence, an area we are light on numbers.

The main concern is that a club down south takes a chance on him and he ends up way out of our price range.

Thoughts?

1. Fenlon's already got an assistant
2. As a player you have to be having a laugh
3. Why would an SPL club appoint a complete novice into the position of assistant manager, surely the only option at this stage would be a lowly position on the coaching staff

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Here's the thought.

If Yogi who is at best an average manager can land a league one club, then if Ian keeps Dumbarton up and then continues the good form next season so can he.

I'm a big Fenlon fan, I work with a former LOI player who speaks incredibly highly of him but also describes LOI as a league of players who couldn't make it at the youth academies in England. The way that Scottish football is being run we're in danger of getting into the same scenario. A lot of us would like Lyle Taylor at Falkirk next season as he's scoring for fun, but truth be told we could already have missed the boat on him. If a championship club take a punt on 2.5k-3k on him (to them a pittance) then we won't match that on a player unproven at SPL level and neither will any other SPL team outwith Celtic.

In terms of staff and players if we want to have any chance of getting in quality personnel we need to strike very early and take a bit of a chance. Some signings will go against that rule but unless we want players who are on their way down in their career it's the only way we'll get players in with a decent resale value.

If in the summer we were to move for Ian as assistant manager I'd be delighted. He's shown early promise and I can't help thinking that if he continues that he'll be onto clubs offering bigger money than Hibs within a year and a half to two years. If we were to get him in as a young, hungry manager to learn about managing the backroom staff (he's said in an interview that he's even making the sandwiches for players at this stage), scouting and signing players and all the bits and pieces, he's ready to step in when Fenlon moves on (and given a good season next year there'll no doubt be higher paying clubs sniffing around for him).

For both staff and players in Scotland a season or two of potential is enough to earn a higher paying move down south (look at Ryan Fraser, Sparky when he was signed to an EPL team from Dundee etc). We need money and as such need to take chances on getting a couple of seasons of good performances out of our personnel followed by a decent transfer fee/compensation package, and I'd say that especially as Murray could learn from Fenlon for a season or two before we unleash him on a full time SPL club with more backroom staff to delegate tasks too he'd be a good risk worth taking as we might not be able to afford him come the end of next season.

As for the player thing - nothing more than backup for injury. Certainly not saying he's the answer for our defence as a starting player.

Pointless post in my opinion, we have a manager, we have an assistant manager too. We have a full compliment of staff it appears, Billy Brown spit was given the heave ho, because there was no place for him.

If a place became available, and if he deserved to be looked at in the process of filling that place, all well and good. I don't think him having 5 minutes in the Dumbarton job qualify's as a must sign him up gamble by the club?

He's started well, if he carry's on in the same vein of form, and does a good job over a decent period of time then who knows?

I mean surely he'd love to be our manager, he is after all a Hibs fan?

--------
09-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Alex Ferguson only spent 4 months in his first gig at East Stirling. Aged 32. :agree:


And he left them to go to St Mirren, then in the First Division, whom he took up to the Premier Division in 1977.

He left Paisley the following year to take over at Aberdeen. Aberdeen finished second behind Celtic in 1978, and won the title for the first of 3 times under Fergie the following year 1979.

So he actually had four pretty successful years in the lower reaches before he went to Pittodrie.

And Fergie's arguably the most successful manager in the history of British football. Not an example to generalise from.

Northernhibee
09-02-2013, 07:27 PM
Pointless post in my opinion, we have a manager, we have an assistant manager too. We have a full compliment of staff it appears, Billy Brown spit was given the heave ho, because there was no place for him.

If a place became available, and if he deserved to be looked at in the process of filling that place, all well and good. I don't think him having 5 minutes in the Dumbarton job qualify's as a must sign him up gamble by the club?

He's started well, if he carry's on in the same vein of form, and does a good job over a decent period of time then who knows?

I mean surely he'd love to be our manager, he is after all a Hibs fan?


If we could offer him 3k a week to be Hibs manager and a club down south offers double/triple that, you really think he'd still come to us?

It's the way Scottish football is going. It's deluded to think that Regan and Doncaster will turn things around or leave their posts.

Baldy Foghorn
09-02-2013, 07:43 PM
If we could offer him 3k a week to be Hibs manager and a club down south offers double/triple that, you really think he'd still come to us?

It's the way Scottish football is going. It's deluded to think that Regan and Doncaster will turn things around or leave their posts.

Purely conjecture at this moment in time, I think you are thinking too hard about this..............

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 07:51 PM
If we could offer him 3k a week to be Hibs manager and a club down south offers double/triple that, you really think he'd still come to us?

It's the way Scottish football is going. It's deluded to think that Regan and Doncaster will turn things around or leave their posts.

No i don't think he'd come to us, he made his intentions quite clear when he was a player. He let his contract run out, so he could walk away for nothing, and so the club would get nothing too. Money is clearly his motivation, nothing wrong in that, but it would not bother me one bit if we missed out on the new Fergie?

As i said earlier, its a pointless post, we have a manager and an assistant.

Treadstone
09-02-2013, 07:58 PM
Blackpool Can I ask why you finish the majority of your points with a question mark when clearly they aren't questions ? Is the period on your keyboard goosed or is it grammatical inadequacy ?

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 07:59 PM
Blackpool Can I ask why you finish the majority of your points with a question mark when clearly they aren't questions ? Is the period on your keyboard goosed or is it grammatical inadequacy ?

To annoy you?

jgl07
09-02-2013, 08:07 PM
personally I think he'll learn far more, by being a manager in his own right, than by being some some of cinderella manager at ER

There is only one answer then:

Butcher out: Murray in.

Treadstone
09-02-2013, 08:11 PM
To annoy you?

Then you have succeeded. Although I still think it is an ignorance of grammar.

heretoday
09-02-2013, 08:11 PM
Murray is just one of that select band of men - The Next Manager of Hibernian Football Club.

Billy Whizz
09-02-2013, 08:14 PM
Murray is just one of that select band of men - The Next Manager of Hibernian Football Club.

Along with who?

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 08:14 PM
Then you have succeeded. Although I still think it is an ignorance of grammar.

?

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2013, 08:15 PM
Along with who?



Butcher of course!

Billy Whizz
09-02-2013, 08:16 PM
Butcher of course!

Fenlon out?

Treadstone
09-02-2013, 08:19 PM
?

I bet you're a right hoot down at the pub.:idiot:

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 08:22 PM
I bet you're a right hoot down at the pub.:idiot:

I am, :clown::giruy:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

jdships
09-02-2013, 08:25 PM
Not a fan of players coming back for second/third spells, but after another victory today against Livi the boy is clearly a very talented manager or at least has the potential to be.

If he was to come in as assistant to Fenlon he'd get the chance to be 'manager in waiting' and learn even more about the running of a full time club and in a time where money is tight could be a back-up in defence, an area we are light on numbers.

The main concern is that a club down south takes a chance on him and he ends up way out of our price range.

Thoughts?

Take it you have doubts about our present management team and their ability ?
Give us YOUR thoughts on that one :greengrin

:rolleyes:

Jonnyboy
09-02-2013, 08:31 PM
McNamara has an unbeaten record at United. Let's add him to the list :wink:

VivaPalmeiras
09-02-2013, 08:41 PM
Along with who?

The pope, the Gettys, the rothschilds, the queen and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2013, 08:47 PM
McNamara has an unbeaten record at United. Let's add him to the list :wink:

Not really fair to judge, he's not played anyone decent yet?

Jonnyboy
09-02-2013, 08:49 PM
Not really fair to judge, he's not played anyone decent yet?

True? :greengrin

gegs70
09-02-2013, 09:27 PM
I think he will learn more where he is.

Chibs
09-02-2013, 09:45 PM
And he left them to go to St Mirren, then in the First Division, whom he took up to the Premier Division in 1977.

He left Paisley the following year to take over at Aberdeen. Aberdeen finished second behind Celtic in 1978, and won the title for the first of 3 times under Fergie the following year 1979.

So he actually had four pretty successful years in the lower reaches before he went to Pittodrie.

And Fergie's arguably the most successful manager in the history of British football. Not an example to generalise from.
I thought ferguson got the sack from st mirren.
If I recall correctly for using a sweary word in the company of a directors wife.

RIP
09-02-2013, 11:26 PM
Does anyone know what Dumbarton's PWDLPts record was when he joined them? To compare with what it is now?

Sir David Gray
09-02-2013, 11:36 PM
Does anyone know what Dumbarton's PWDLPts record was when he joined them? To compare with what it is now?

Since he joined (all competitions)

P-9
W-6
D-0
L-3

Before he joined (all competitions)

P-17
W-3
D-2
L-12

Houchy
09-02-2013, 11:50 PM
Not a fan of players coming back for second/third spells, but after another victory today against Livi the boy is clearly a very talented manager or at least has the potential to be.

If he was to come in as assistant to Fenlon he'd get the chance to be 'manager in waiting' and learn even more about the running of a full time club and in a time where money is tight could be a back-up in defence, an area we are light on numbers.

The main concern is that a club down south takes a chance on him and he ends up way out of our price range.

Thoughts?

I agreed with the start as he's obviously going to have picked up a lot from previous managers but think you need to lie down if you think he could provide back up to our defence. He was slow 3 years ago and I think even I could beat him in a sprint.

I do see potential but no' yet eh?

Besides, I'm quite happy and excited with the way we're going under Paddy.

ALF TUPPER
09-02-2013, 11:54 PM
Maybe some day

Hibee Ryan
10-02-2013, 12:10 AM
Would he even want to leave a managerial job where he's getting a lot of attention to become an assistant? The answer to that would be no I'd guess

Northernhibee
10-02-2013, 01:31 AM
Take it you have doubts about our present management team and their ability ?
Give us YOUR thoughts on that one :greengrin

:rolleyes:

Not at all, imo PF will turn out to be the best manager we've had since Mowbray. I expect that in a couple of years PF will get a much better offer, probably from Celtic or down south. I suspect that Murray in a couple of years will find himself managing down south too, any interviews he's given so far as a manager indicate a great tactical knowledge and even if early days he's showing that he can get a team to punch way above its weight, even if only in the short term so far.

Also technically Liam O'Brien is 1st team coach, not assistant manager. Maybe the role he's playing doesn't have the world of difference between the two, but no, we don't have an assistant manager nor do I see LO'B as a future Hibs manager.

All about having someone waiting in the wings for when PF continues to a new club that'll allow some continuity in our team as opposed to another 'transitional season' who knows how to delegate tasks to the backroom staff, has had some input to the team and knows the squad and surroundings inside out whilst we could still probably afford them.

Mark my words, in the future we'll see most SPL teams forced to appoint new managers through either internal promotions or from lower Scottish leagues. I have no faith in Regan and Doncaster to make the Scottish leagues more appealing for established managers to come to.

Diclonius
10-02-2013, 04:20 AM
Perhaps he could be the successor to Liam Miller in a few years?

Time For Heroes
10-02-2013, 06:22 AM
Blackpool Can I ask why you finish the majority of your points with a question mark when clearly they aren't questions ? Is the period on your keyboard goosed or is it grammatical inadequacy ?

?

matty_f
10-02-2013, 08:41 AM
Perhaps he could be the successor to Liam Miller in a few years?

:tee hee:

Andy74
10-02-2013, 09:17 AM
Hibby or not I've never really taken to Ian Murray.

Brizo
10-02-2013, 09:17 AM
No i don't think he'd come to us, he made his intentions quite clear when he was a player. He let his contract run out, so he could walk away for nothing, and so the club would get nothing too. Money is clearly his motivation, nothing wrong in that, but it would not bother me one bit if we missed out on the new Fergie?

As i said earlier, its a pointless post, we have a manager and an assistant.

:agree:

Despite dotnet tinternet love in which appears to surround Murray his testimonial turnout showed how many fans view him.

PF has LOB and others in the dugout to provide more than enough assistance. There might possibly be a place for Murray as Tam McCourts helper or for painting 7-0 on bairns heids before derby games but i cant think of any other reason why he should be anywhere near ER at this embryonic stage of his management career.

--------
10-02-2013, 09:26 AM
I thought ferguson got the sack from st mirren.
If I recall correctly for using a sweary word in the company of a directors wife.


I honestly can't remember, but if you're right (and I've no reason to doubt you) that sounds like a simple way to get released from one contract before taking up a better one.

He's always been a fly man.

McD
10-02-2013, 09:36 AM
I honestly can't remember, but if you're right (and I've no reason to doubt you) that sounds like a simple way to get released from one contract before taking up a better one.

He's always been a fly man.


Ferguson was sacked, can't remember the official reason (although the swearing thing does ring a bell, though I wasn't around at the time), but I seem to remember reading that it was something to do with the saints chairman thinking ferguson was getting too big for his boots and was becoming 'bigger' news than the chairman himself, so a sacking wasn't far off.

Fergie was quickly offered the Aberdeen job, and accepted, but also took st Mirren to industrial tribunal, which he lost.

Now I'm thinking about it, I think the sacking was allegedly for swearing at and attempting to bully the club/chairmanship secretary, particularly over money ferguson had been taking out of petty cash and keeping even after being told to stop. Doesn't sound like him at all :greengrin

Kaiser1962
10-02-2013, 12:37 PM
Alex Ferguson only spent 4 months in his first gig at East Stirling. Aged 32. :agree:


Yes. But he moved to St.Mirren who were below East Strirlingshire in the old second division at that time (October 1974) although they had greater potential. He was encouraged to take the St. Mirren job by Jock Stein.

The next season Scottish football split into three divisons St. Mirren scraped into the new Div 1 (2nd tier) by 2 points where they finished mid table the next season. They were promoted to the PL in 1976-77 as champions and stayed there in 8th place. Ferguson identified players such as Billy Stark, Peter Weir and Tony Fitzpatrick amongst what became a very good St.Mirren team and he was sacked for telling the staff that he was leaving for Aberdeen at the end of season 77-78 to replace Billy McNeil, who had been poached by Celtic to replace Jock Stein. He had not told the board.

Ian Murray has started very very well at Dumbarton and I am sure every one on this message board is watching their results and wishing him nothing but good fortune. He will make mistakes, plenty probably, and when the downturn in form comes, which it will, he will undoubtedly be allowed the time and space to work it out at Dumbarton which he wouldnt get at another club where expectations, and pressure to deliver, is greater. I wish him well.

Kaiser1962
10-02-2013, 12:42 PM
Ferguson was sacked, can't remember the official reason (although the swearing thing does ring a bell, though I wasn't around at the time), but I seem to remember reading that it was something to do with the saints chairman thinking ferguson was getting too big for his boots and was becoming 'bigger' news than the chairman himself, so a sacking wasn't far off.

Fergie was quickly offered the Aberdeen job, and accepted, but also took st Mirren to industrial tribunal, which he lost.

Now I'm thinking about it, I think the sacking was allegedly for swearing at and attempting to bully the club/chairmanship secretary, particularly over money ferguson had been taking out of petty cash and keeping even after being told to stop. Doesn't sound like him at all :greengrin

He was sacked at the end of May 1978, four days before he joined Aberdeen, by St. Mirren chairman Willie Todd for breach of contract. He had already agreed to join Aberdeen and was lining up staff to join him there. Ferguson took St.Mirren to an Industrial Tribunal and lost

NOLA
10-02-2013, 04:08 PM
Butcher out Murray in

Sudds_1
10-02-2013, 04:11 PM
I once scored a goal identical to the great Marco Van Basten volleyed effort for Holland. Should Hibs sign me as a striker?

yes............we need a wee basten in the side :greengrin

HibbyCal
10-02-2013, 07:02 PM
I'd love to see him return as manager one day. Not just now though.

Iggy Pope
10-02-2013, 07:45 PM
I bet you're a right hoot down at the pub.:idiot:

I've been in a pub with him and he really is quite funny.
Does all your patter about grammar go down a hoot in the pub?

silverhibee
10-02-2013, 08:06 PM
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

WestEndHibee
11-02-2013, 01:08 PM
Nothing to do with the question but have you seen prunty's goal for Dumbarton?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drw0YZZT-zU&ref=nf

Wilson
11-02-2013, 01:37 PM
I've been in a pub with him and he really is quite funny.
Does all your patter about grammar go down a hoot in the pub?

Funny. Not funny. Who cares? So long as he buys a round :cb