What's the REAL problem with OUR CLUB

[Scottie]

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM AT OUR CLUB ?

I've tried for 35 years to work it out but have failed miserably.
In all that time we have seen a couple of league cup wins and a hell of a lot of heartbreak.
A couple a great teams thats been broken up for financial stability and a certain gentleman that tried to KILL us off.

90% of that time it's been unbearable. The other 10% has been pure ecstasy.

We all understand financially we can't compete but apart from that what is the problem with our club.
The current disease at our club over the last 5/6 years is in my opinion disgraceful.

No matter what happens till the day we die WE AS HIBEES WILL ALWAY BLEED GREEN.

What needs to be done at the club to get us a product and passion on the pitch that are as proud to play for HIBERNIAN as we are to support them and to get us out of this horrendous mess and on the way to ECSTASY once again.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

In the last handful of years, we've made our already big enough stadium bigger, paid for East Mains thats produced diddly and spent a fortune on pish managers! Seemingly the infrastructure is in place if we give it a while.

[gegs70]

r

We seem to like wrapping youngsters up in cotton wool. Give them game time. But it would appear that our team plays like individuals and not as a team. We are not pretty or pleasing on the eye and wouldnt call the games worth the money we pay for the ticket.

A lot of other clubs seem to be able to attract decent players, they must have better contacts in the game. I will kp an eye on the transfer market as hopefully we can get a wide player and a big striker....

[Mac]

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM AT OUR CLUB ?

I've tried for 35 years to work it out but have failed miserably.
In all that time we have seen a couple of league cup wins and a hell of a lot of heartbreak.
A couple a great teams thats been broken up for financial stability and a certain gentleman that tried to KILL us off.

90% of that time it's been unbearable. The other 10% has been pure ecstasy.

We all understand financially we can't compete but apart from that what is the problem with our club.
The current disease at our club over the last 5/6 years is in my opinion disgraceful.

No matter what happens till the day we die WE AS HIBEES WILL ALWAY BLEED GREEN.

What needs to be done at the club to get us a product and passion on the pitch that are as proud to play for HIBERNIAN as we are to support them and to get us out of this horrendous mess and on the way to ECSTASY once again.

So, in the same age bracket 40+ and you have only had 10% ecstasy? have you tried asking someone else to do it for you or stop with the ecstasy stop with the ecstasy (you see what i did there)

medication time, medication time... juicy fruit!!

[Mister P]

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM AT OUR CLUB ?

I've tried for 35 years to work it out but have failed miserably.
In all that time we have seen a couple of league cup wins and a hell of a lot of heartbreak.
A couple a great teams thats been broken up for financial stability and a certain gentleman that tried to KILL us off.

90% of that time it's been unbearable. The other 10% has been pure ecstasy.

We all understand financially we can't compete but apart from that what is the problem with our club.
The current disease at our club over the last 5/6 years is in my opinion disgraceful.

No matter what happens till the day we die WE AS HIBEES WILL ALWAY BLEED GREEN.

What needs to be done at the club to get us a product and passion on the pitch that are as proud to play for HIBERNIAN as we are to support them and to get us out of this horrendous mess and on the way to ECSTASY once again.

it's not just us, scottish football is garbage...period!

no money, no investment from grass roots upwards (although hopefully theres attempts to begin that), nothing to attract quality players to this country outside the ugly sisters. competition is pish and repetative.

our clubs leaders have done a fine job, but they're conflicted. Petrie is a money man, he was brought in to fix the financial ****hole this lcub was, and by all intents and purposes he has done a grand job. our debts are vastly reduced, and with a financial shortfall over the past 2 seasons we will undoubtedly see the purse strings tightened so ensure our survival. might sound a bit drastic but look at the huns and mini huns! it does happen.

we had a good few years recently, a particulalry talented youth academy director (was it john or donald park?) who scouted and nurtured a string of quality youngsters in Riordan, Oconnor, Brown, Fletcher, Thommo etc, but as part of the master plan we had to cash in on what was available for them. We all hoped at htis stage the academy would continue with more generations of talent like that but iirc did Parky not go to Celtic?

So we're at this stage, back to the run of the mill pish with a mediocre club hoping for good times.

I think Fenlon is doing ok with what he has, maybe we don't understand his tactics but he's certainly not the worst and deserves a bit of support.

we need something new, not a new manager or chairman etc, something that can create a bit of a spark and creativity. dunno what that is...maybe a link in with a Premiership club :dunno: as Scottish football is stagnant, it's not progressing and hasn't for many years.

I've maybe not expressed myself properly, but hope you can make some kind of sense of it. the problem can't be fixed with just the football side of it, theres something deeper that needs fixed.

[Pete]

These historic problems with our club have been identified and are in the process of being rectified. They aren't going to go away over the space of a few transfer windows.

For years, hibs were associated with good football and flair. It's been forgotten that flair teams put the graft in first to allow the good stuff to happen. Our midfielders and defenders were getting bullied for years and teams knew that once they got on top then the long suffering fans would get on the players backs.

I think Pat knows what he's doing. He has recognised this and the first thing he did was stop the rot in these problem areas. I'm very happy with our defence and our defensive/holding midfield options. Everyone knows that the problems lie in attacking midfield areas but what would be the point of signing guys to play there if we were shipping goals like we used to?
I'm not expecting miracles this window but I expect there to be activity in the summer. It's all very well saying that he should have simply addressed every area at once but we can't afford to do that. We need to sniff out the gems and that takes time. I can see the targets being a big man who the ball can stick to and a creative midfielder who can play behind the strikers leaving the full backs and other midfieldes to provide width. Claros is just crying out for someone to pass to but there isn't enough intelligent movement.

We're a zemmama and a mixu away from being a damn good side. It isn't pretty just now but we HAVE to remember that this is a genuine rebuilding job and it will take time.

[hibiedude]

In the last handful of years, we've made our already big enough stadium bigger, paid for East Mains thats produced diddly and spent a fortune on pish managers! Seemingly the infrastructure is in place if we give it a while.

100% correct

[Onion]

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM AT OUR CLUB ?

I've tried for 35 years to work it out but have failed miserably.
In all that time we have seen a couple of league cup wins and a hell of a lot of heartbreak.
A couple a great teams thats been broken up for financial stability and a certain gentleman that tried to KILL us off.

90% of that time it's been unbearable. The other 10% has been pure ecstasy.

We all understand financially we can't compete but apart from that what is the problem with our club.
The current disease at our club over the last 5/6 years is in my opinion disgraceful.

No matter what happens till the day we die WE AS HIBEES WILL ALWAY BLEED GREEN.

What needs to be done at the club to get us a product and passion on the pitch that are as proud to play for HIBERNIAN as we are to support them and to get us out of this horrendous mess and on the way to ECSTASY once again.

One word... culture.

HFC tolerates failure (and failures) far too easily, fails to set high enough standard for those that work for the company from CEO to youth players and in general terms treats its customers with contempt. IMHO poor decisions, poor signings and bad luck cannot explain the scale of of the club's relative failure over the last 40 years. Until we have people in charge who accept the need to change the culture at the club, we'll continue to stumble and bumble along bumping into the odd League Cup every 20 years or so.

[Mango Man]

It's because of this...


http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?184968-Daft-jambo-bird-construction-worker-buried-Hearts-top-and-photos-in-the-East-Stand.

In all seriousness, the last 3 years have been probably the worst to be a hibs fan, becoming used to failure now, expecting to lose against teams we really should be competing with, it's really difficult to shake it off and try and be positive. :confused:

[Newhaven]

One word... culture.

HFC tolerates failure (and failures) far too easily, fails to set high enough standard for those that work for the company from CEO to youth players and in general terms treats its customers with contempt. IMHO poor decisions, poor signings and bad luck cannot explain the scale of of the club's relative failure over the last 40 years. Until we have people in charge who accept the need to change the culture at the club, we'll continue to stumble and bumble along bumping into the odd League Cup every 20 years or so.

This 100%

We're too quick to accept defeat and shrug if off as 'well it's HFC these things happen'. Why should they?

Many fans were hiding behind the sofa last night as we were playing the mighty Ross County like we're playing the Arsenal invincibles of 2003/4. I think it's a mindset at the club where we tolerate losers and rarely go for the jugular.

Clubs with less crowds, budgets and facilities are getting more for their buck than us and we should demand better. We are still the SPL soft touches and the odd win against •••••• won't change that in the long run.

[3pm]

This 100%

We're too quick to accept defeat and shrug if off as 'well it's HFC these things happen'. Why should they?

Many fans were hiding behind the sofa last night as we were playing the mighty Ross County like we're playing the Arsenal invincibles of 2003/4. I think it's a mindset at the club where we tolerate losers and rarely go for the jugular.

Clubs with less crowds, budgets and facilities are getting more for their buck than us and we should demand better. We are still the SPL soft touches and the odd win against •••••• won't change that in the long run.

Newhaven, a SIPOC is required!!!!

[Newhaven]

Newhaven, a SIPOC is required!!!!

At least :agree:

[bingo70]

This 100%

We're too quick to accept defeat and shrug if off as 'well it's HFC these things happen'. Why should they?

Many fans were hiding behind the sofa last night as we were playing the mighty Ross County like we're playing the Arsenal invincibles of 2003/4. I think it's a mindset at the club where we tolerate losers and rarely go for the jugular.

Clubs with less crowds, budgets and facilities are getting more for their buck than us and we should demand better. We are still the SPL soft touches and the odd win against •••••• won't change that in the long run.

Cannae believe your still going on about this mate.

I can guarantee you that just because a few fans predicted we'd lose last night had absolutely zero bearing on the outcome of last nights game.

What do you propose as fans we do? Get so angry we go down to east mains and invade the training ground like they do in Italy? It's up to the players to sort this fear of travelling out, its 100% nothing to do with the fans.

[Ozyhibby]

I know your not allowed to criticise Pat Fenlon on here but at some point soon we have to look in his direction.
We have a £4m player budget, Ross County have less than £1m. Result? County have 9 points out of 9 against us this season.
Yes, we are 4th in the league but even this is under achievement as we have the third biggest budget. And to acheive this 4th place we are playing a style of football that would make your eyes bleed.
Pat has had three transfer windows now and has his own team out on the pitch. Only two players starting last night were here before Pat got here and he re-signed Stevenson at the start of the season.
The time for talk of transition is over.
It's time he started to produce on the pitch.

[marinello59]

I know your not allowed to criticise Pat Fenlon on here but at some point soon we have to look in his direction.
We have a £4m player budget, Ross County have less than £1m. Result? County have 9 points out of 9 against us this season.
Yes, we are 4th in the league but even this is under achievement as we have the third biggest budget. And to acheive this 4th place we are playing a style of football that would make your eyes bleed.
Pat has had three transfer windows now and has his own team out on the pitch. Only two players starting last night were here before Pat got here and he re-signed Stevenson at the start of the season.
The time for talk of transition is over.
It's time he started to produce on the pitch.

Yes you are.

[MB62]

The buck stops at the very top.
Farmer & Petrie

[Newhaven]

Cannae believe your still going on about this mate.

I can guarantee you that just because a few fans predicted we'd lose last night had absolutely zero bearing on the outcome of last nights game.

What do you propose as fans we do? Get so angry we go down to east mains and invade the training ground like they do in Italy? It's up to the players to sort this fear of travelling out, its 100% nothing to do with the fans.

Bingo. How am I still going on about it? Can you direct me to the part where I state that the fans had a bearing on the result?

Im just disappointed that we've sunk so low as to fear going to away grounds like Dingwall and Inverness.

[3pm]

The buck stops at the very top.
Farmer & Petrie

No it doesn't.

Everyone at the football club is accountable in some shape or form.

[bingo70]

Bingo. How am I still going on about it? Can you direct me to the part where I state that the fans had a bearing on the result?

Im just disappointed that we've sunk so low as to fear going to away grounds like Dingwall and Inverness.

I can't quote as on my phone but you posted this morning about fans hiding behind the sofa and needing to change the culture if the club.

Imo that's suggesting that the fans attitude that drives the negative feeling that seems to surrounds trips to these places, ultimately 'we' don't need to change anything about these trips up north It's, the players that need to change the attitude.

We should be beating Ross county and Inverness, of course we should, however until we actually start doing it of course people will be nervous and predict we'll get beat.

[Ozyhibby]

The buck stops at the very top.
Farmer & Petrie

I don't agree. They provide a great budget for the manager and let him get on with it. What more do you want from them?

[brydekirk]

East mains, flatten it now, its a holiday camp. Fact, End Off.

[Captain Trips]

No it doesn't.

Everyone at the football club is accountable in some shape or form.
A
Yes and those accountable mangers are sacked and accountable players sold. The people at top have lived off past achievements, far to many mistakes made over last few years. That is where our problems are. at what point do others pay for errors like all their appointments?

[Elephant Stone]

The buck stops at the very top.
Farmer & Petrie

I blame their parents.

[MB62]

I don't agree. They provide a great budget for the manager and let him get on with it. What more do you want from them?

If that's the case, then they should appoint a manager who knows how to use this great budget available to him that will put a winning team on the park. Since they have came to the club, they have have failed to do this in probably around 90% of their appointments.

Somebody is failing at ER and there are only two constants, Farmer and Petrie.

[Bobo]

For me there's been a lack of character for too long and we lack purpose and direction. There's precious few strong willed individuals and little determination within our ranks. No real leader on or off the field.

We were once innovators and led by example, our name was known throughout Europe, we were the famous HIBERNIAN. Now were just Hibs, also rans, from the cr@ppy SPL who are nothing special.

Times change and we haven't adapted to keep ourselves competitive nor have we retained many of the principles that once made us one of the leading teams in the game. Half a century of under achievement has unfortunately been the outcome during my lifetime.

[Andy74]

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM AT OUR CLUB ?

I've tried for 35 years to work it out but have failed miserably.
In all that time we have seen a couple of league cup wins and a hell of a lot of heartbreak.
A couple a great teams thats been broken up for financial stability and a certain gentleman that tried to KILL us off.

90% of that time it's been unbearable. The other 10% has been pure ecstasy.

We all understand financially we can't compete but apart from that what is the problem with our club.
The current disease at our club over the last 5/6 years is in my opinion disgraceful.

No matter what happens till the day we die WE AS HIBEES WILL ALWAY BLEED GREEN.

What needs to be done at the club to get us a product and passion on the pitch that are as proud to play for HIBERNIAN as we are to support them and to get us out of this horrendous mess and on the way to ECSTASY once again.

Reactions like this to being 4th place are part of the current problem.

[NOLA]

Reactions like this to being 4th place are part of the current problem.
Has the league finished? Did we end up 4th? We won't be placing higher than fourth, we will slide down the table and finish no better than 7th and that's being generous. Happy to be proved wrong of course.

[JimBHibees]

Has the league finished? Did we end up 4th? We won't be placing higher than fourth, we will slide down the table and finish no better than 7th and that's being generous. Happy to be proved wrong of course.

Thats the spirit.

[matty_f]

For me there's been a lack of character for too long and we lack purpose and direction. There's precious few strong willed individuals and little determination within our ranks. No real leader on or off the field.

We were once innovators and led by example, our name was known throughout Europe, we were the famous HIBERNIAN. Now were just Hibs, also rans, from the cr@ppy SPL who are nothing special.

Times change and we haven't adapted to keep ourselves competitive nor have we retained many of the principles that once made us one of the leading teams in the game. Half a century of under achievement has unfortunately been the outcome during my lifetime.

I think the leadership accusation could (and rightly was, IMHO) be leveled at the club last season and a few seasons preceding it, probably going back to the departure of Rob Jones, to be honest.

This season though, I disagree - without strong characters we'd have been knocked out the cup, lost to Celtc, lost a good few other games where we've been under the cosh.

We weren't talking about lack of leadership when we were picking up difficult points or knocking the sh*te-smearers out the cup. I think Fenlon is a leader, I think McPake is a leader, Deegan certainly makes himself heard, Clancy, Williams... there are strong characters in the side now.

What we're seeing now is a result of a lack of strength in depth, IMHO. We have a decent first 11, after that we are looking at youth players, really. The quality isn't there to be able to take a player whose form has dipped and replace him with someone as good. And we have a few players off form at the moment. McPake, Wotherspoon, Cairney, Griffiths.... we can't carry that, but we don't have replacements as things stand.

We maybe need to recognise that as a support, and rather than booting the club and decrying the form as 'the same old' Hibs, we should at least understand the constraints that the team are under. We are doing better than a lot of teams, and other teams have suffered similar dips in form over the season - we're not immune to it because we're Hibs.

I think people make the mistake of calling a pragmatic view of what's happening at the moment as somehow making the results and performances acceptable if they happened forever. I think a result like last night is acceptable at this stage in Fenlon's career with Hibs as he doesn't really have the resources to make the changes needed to go out and win these games week after week. Long term are they acceptable - no, not really. Will they happen again - probably. It's football, a sport - not an exact science. Only exceptional teams win consistently week in/week out, and even those teams are not immune to bad results from time to time.

[Beefster]

Never mind all this hand-wringing stuff about culture, money and talent. The real problem at Hibs is the scandalous lack of steak and gravy in the steak pies. Quite how Heston Bluemental hasn't been called in yet is beyond me.

[JimBHibees]

I think the leadership accusation could (and rightly was, IMHO) be leveled at the club last season and a few seasons preceding it, probably going back to the departure of Rob Jones, to be honest.

This season though, I disagree - without strong characters we'd have been knocked out the cup, lost to Celtc, lost a good few other games where we've been under the cosh.

We weren't talking about lack of leadership when we were picking up difficult points or knocking the sh*te-smearers out the cup. I think Fenlon is a leader, I think McPake is a leader, Deegan certainly makes himself heard, Clancy, Williams... there are strong characters in the side now.

What we're seeing now is a result of a lack of strength in depth, IMHO. We have a decent first 11, after that we are looking at youth players, really. The quality isn't there to be able to take a player whose form has dipped and replace him with someone as good. And we have a few players off form at the moment. McPake, Wotherspoon, Cairney, Griffiths.... we can't carry that, but we don't have replacements as things stand.

We maybe need to recognise that as a support, and rather than booting the club and decrying the form as 'the same old' Hibs, we should at least understand the constraints that the team are under. We are doing better than a lot of teams, and other teams have suffered similar dips in form over the season - we're not immune to it because we're Hibs.

I think people make the mistake of calling a pragmatic view of what's happening at the moment as somehow making the results and performances acceptable if they happened forever. I think a result like last night is acceptable at this stage in Fenlon's career with Hibs as he doesn't really have the resources to make the changes needed to go out and win these games week after week. Long term are they acceptable - no, not really. Will they happen again - probably. It's football, a sport - not an exact science. Only exceptional teams win consistently week in/week out, and even those teams are not immune to bad results from time to time.

Excellent post.

[Finbar]

It's been a tough run of games. We beat Celtic, drew with Hearts and Aberdeen away, ok we should be beating Dundee at home and we shouldn't be losing to Ross Co but it was only 1-0 could have gone either way. Big game on Sunday, chin up!

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

We always seem to be like frightened rabbits, but this is nothing new at ER, we have never had that toughness about us, even in the 70s we seemed to be a wee bit overawed by other lesser teams, we just don't have fighting mentality at all, I've never really seen us roll up our sleeves and bash on with the task.

Fenlon?, I just really don't know what to say, I like him and think he has what it takes but tactically I don't know, perhaps he tells players what to do and they just don't respond.

Petrie & Co?, it always seems to me that there is an arrogance about the board and they are like a quiet bunch of accountants who talk just above a whisper at meetings, don't know why I think that but I just do, we need a firebrand like Tom Hart for an owner, someone to put a bit of pride back in the club and at least make the well fed up fans feel just a wee bit better.

If we lose on Saturday I fancy us to be in free fall as it doesn't look like getting any better just now.

[Fergus52]

The buck stops at the very top.
Farmer & Petrie

I dont see cues of Russian Millionaires lining up to buy us...

[MB62]

I dont see cues of Russian Millionaires lining up to buy us...

Oh well, it cannae be their fault then, sorry about that.

[fatbloke]

For me there's been a lack of character for too long and we lack purpose and direction. There's precious few strong willed individuals and little determination within our ranks. No real leader on or off the field.

We were once innovators and led by example, our name was known throughout Europe, we were the famous HIBERNIAN. Now were just Hibs, also rans, from the cr@ppy SPL who are nothing special.

Times change and we haven't adapted to keep ourselves competitive nor have we retained many of the principles that once made us one of the leading teams in the game. Half a century of under achievement has unfortunately been the outcome during my lifetime.

We are too nice a club, not enough ambition anywhere in the club and too many people too willing to accept mediocrity and damn you if you dare not toe the party line. Either that or we all masochists and proud of it:greengrin. Me I'm just a lawnmower......

[Jones28]

The real problem at Hibs is the line between patience and being unrealistic.

Unrealistic is demanding we win every game against the likes of Ross County. Now I accept that we should have beaten Dundee 3/3, but RC are a different story. But who are we demand beating everyone below us when just last season we finished bottom of the pile bar a very poor Dunfermline team. Change doesn't happen overnight. I agree that the Cup Final should be a watershed moment for Hibs, but if you don't have the cash to spend then you simply don't have it. We shouldn't be throwing away the hard work Tom Farmer has done over the last 20 years. Our signing policy does enable us to sign good quality players: Zemmama, Sheils, Boozy, and Liam Miller to name a few over the past 7-8 years. Imagine foccussing the wages of some of the dross we have had in the team over the past few years on 2-3 good quality players, of the same ilk as Stokes and others.

Realism is giving Fenlon time and at the very least 3 transfer windows to change things. So if you don't count last seasons JTW, that means he has had the summer, the current window and next summer to make some real changes. If we make a couple of signings today, with Liam Craig and no doubt a few other to come in next window we will start to reap the rewards.

And thats making it sound like we are having a disastrous season, which we aren't. We are sitting fourth, 3 points off 2nd and 3rd place in a very competitive league. A few poor results and we are still 4th, we still have the chance to stay in the mix for europe.

[Andy74]

We are too nice a club, not enough ambition anywhere in the club and too many people too willing to accept mediocrity and damn you if you dare not toe the party line. Either that or we all masochists and proud of it:greengrin. Me I'm just a lawnmower......

Who is accepting mediocrity? Keep hearing that but what makes you think it's accepted or what we are after?

[Mikeystewart]

No it doesn't.

Everyone at the football club is accountable in some shape or form.

Including the fans?

[Speedway]

East mains, flatten it now, its a holiday camp. Fact, End Off.

Is End Off a sweary phrase, like **** off or **** off?

'End of' as in 'discussion' only has one 'f' yet I see many like the post above using two 'f's.

Am I missing a new sweary phrase that has leaped into our cultural vernacular?

[Mikeystewart]

Is End Off a sweary phrase, like **** off or **** off?

'End of' as in 'discussion' only has one 'f' yet I see many like the post above using two 'f's.

Am I missing a new sweary phrase that has leaped into our cultural vernacular?

People can't spell.

[clerriehibs]

Y
These historic problems with our club have been identified and are in the process of being rectified. They aren't going to go away over the space of a few transfer windows.

For years, hibs were associated with good football and flair. It's been forgotten that flair teams put the graft in first to allow the good stuff to happen. Our midfielders and defenders were getting bullied for years and teams knew that once they got on top then the long suffering fans would get on the players backs.

I think Pat knows what he's doing. He has recognised this and the first thing he did was stop the rot in these problem areas. I'm very happy with our defence and our defensive/holding midfield options. Everyone knows that the problems lie in attacking midfield areas but what would be the point of signing guys to play there if we were shipping goals like we used to?
I'm not expecting miracles this window but I expect there to be activity in the summer. It's all very well saying that he should have simply addressed every area at once but we can't afford to do that. We need to sniff out the gems and that takes time. I can see the targets being a big man who the ball can stick to and a creative midfielder who can play behind the strikers leaving the full backs and other midfieldes to provide width. Claros is just crying out for someone to pass to but there isn't enough intelligent movement.

We're a zemmama and a mixu away from being a damn good side. It isn't pretty just now but we HAVE to remember that this is a genuine rebuilding job and it will take time.

EVERY manager brought in comes in with a genuine plan of his own. Every single one. There's nothing about the current rebuilding job to suggest it's any more 'genuine' than ANY previous one.

And we're a damn sight more than just a mixu and a zooma from being a good team.

[JustSimplyHibs]

The problem with Hibs??? We as fans always look back and compare to yester-year, getting frustrated at the same time in doing so. Just look through this thread as an example, ‘previous managers’, and ‘previous players’...not for one minute am i condoning this as there has to be some form of bench-mark to compare against.

Personally myself that day in May, my club died and was re-born days after. Following Fenlon’s comments regarding the club’s culture, and how he was going to get rid of it. I thought that everything he said was spot on, however; I thought I will hold my breath, move on and watch his work in-progress...

He got rid of the bad apples by releasing the main imposters from that day, got rid of coaching staff that had been at the club for years.

The club had to toughen up, on the pitch defensively – look at the goals against column. Off the pitch, Petrie leading the way in the removal of Rangers, not allowing Aberdeen to bring their brass band.

Currently we are at a situation where due to the reduction of the playing staff we have a thread-bare squad, with really only a starting 11. Because of this we are unable to change games if we need to – just look at last-nights bench, who on that bench has experience and is able to change a game? No-one!

I think the ‘new’ Hibs is taking shape and if we maintain our signing policy thus far (need to concentrate in the forward areas), develop a squad, cut out silly mistakes (probs due to no competition for places)...the only way can be up.

Nothing the matter with my ‘new’ Hibs, never saw them loose a derby yet :greengrin – although, just change the away team’s name to VISITOR!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Nothing the matter? i've not checked the validity of a post elsewhere on .net, but, presuming its true, 10pts from 12 games, seriously? Couldnae give a flying one about what other sides are doing, but, that is merde!

[JustSimplyHibs]

Nothing the matter? i've not checked the validity of a post elsewhere on .net, but, presuming its true, 10pts from 12 games, seriously? Couldnae give a flying one about what other sides are doing, but, that is merde!

Look at the league, outwith Selick and you will find that teams around us are mustering roughly the same points in the same quota of games at some point in the season, in fact, look at the league as a whole and that tells the story!!!

Along these lines since you don't give a flying one about other teams - a thread-bare starting 11 Hibs side is 4th in the league. Not checking the stats we have been beaten probs 4 times in those 12 games, by a goal...as i say a thread-bare squad, i'll re-phrase a thread-bare starting 11 with a few more additions in the attacking sense, should and probably will change these draws to wins and loses to draws with thee old dodgy ref decision changing these wins and draws to loses!!!

[Heedersnvolleys]

For me the current situation is more frustration than anything else as not so long ago I think it was only 2 points between us and top? ( I will stand corrected if not true) there is not much between the other teams in the league and it just seems a really good opportunity wasted. I think that is where my frustration is from seeing this opportunity slide away.

[Ozyhibby]

You could add the Inverness and Ross County budgets together and it would add up to less than our budget.
Given that we have no major injury problems, why is it that our 'threadbare' squad is being used as an excuse? Why is it threadbare?

[hihohibby]

I'm still dreaming of a Hibs that will win a league championship in my lifetime...and that oh so elusive Scottish Cup....but, for me, it's been 55 years of (mostly) heartache and disappointment.. League cup wins (3) have soothed the pain every 20 years or so...but that's an awful, awful lot of in between time of mediocrity and false dawns...My misery is compounded by Hearts domination of the derby, especially these last 3 decades....and for some vague reason, despite all the frustration and anger and crippling emotional lows (2012 Scottish Cup final being the lowest) I still root for my team...and still find myself being deluded into thinking that, somehow, that Hibs of my dreams will actually materialise. My dad lifted me over the turnstyles as a kid..How could I have imagined then that the seeds for a life long relationship with a capital team had been sown.:ill:

[WHUHibs]

I think the leadership accusation could (and rightly was, IMHO) be leveled at the club last season and a few seasons preceding it, probably going back to the departure of Rob Jones, to be honest.

This season though, I disagree - without strong characters we'd have been knocked out the cup, lost to Celtc, lost a good few other games where we've been under the cosh.

We weren't talking about lack of leadership when we were picking up difficult points or knocking the sh*te-smearers out the cup. I think Fenlon is a leader, I think McPake is a leader, Deegan certainly makes himself heard, Clancy, Williams... there are strong characters in the side now.

What we're seeing now is a result of a lack of strength in depth, IMHO. We have a decent first 11, after that we are looking at youth players, really. The quality isn't there to be able to take a player whose form has dipped and replace him with someone as good. And we have a few players off form at the moment. McPake, Wotherspoon, Cairney, Griffiths.... we can't carry that, but we don't have replacements as things stand.

We maybe need to recognise that as a support, and rather than booting the club and decrying the form as 'the same old' Hibs, we should at least understand the constraints that the team are under. We are doing better than a lot of teams, and other teams have suffered similar dips in form over the season - we're not immune to it because we're Hibs.

I think people make the mistake of calling a pragmatic view of what's happening at the moment as somehow making the results and performances acceptable if they happened forever. I think a result like last night is acceptable at this stage in Fenlon's career with Hibs as he doesn't really have the resources to make the changes needed to go out and win these games week after week. Long term are they acceptable - no, not really. Will they happen again - probably. It's football, a sport - not an exact science. Only exceptional teams win consistently week in/week out, and even those teams are not immune to bad results from time to time.

Matty, your a reasonable guy but I beg to differ,,,last nights result was not acceptable... You have a club like RC with a lot less in way of disposable income but still manage to turn us over 3 times.

For those hardy few who managed to make the long trip last night I can assure you the result or application of the vast majority of players was not acceptable. Having made 2 long trips, costing a fair amount of hard earned money with only several shots at goal over 2 games plus players who cannot control, pass or make a tackle ( in general) that is not acceptable.

It is a sad state of affairs that professional players who show lack of commitment repay the fans by saying its progress leaves a lot to be desired. If I saw them flying into tackles, marking properly, making runs, passing the ball to a fellow Hibs player plus trying their hearts out and we lost then I can accept that,,I hate losing but it's the way we lose that I find unacceptable.

[Captain Trips]

The real problem at Hibs is the line between patience and being unrealistic.

Unrealistic is demanding we win every game against the likes of Ross County. Now I accept that we should have beaten Dundee 3/3, but RC are a different story. But who are we demand beating everyone below us when just last season we finished bottom of the pile bar a very poor Dunfermline team. Change doesn't happen overnight. I agree that the Cup Final should be a watershed moment for Hibs, but if you don't have the cash to spend then you simply don't have it. We shouldn't be throwing away the hard work Tom Farmer has done over the last 20 years. Our signing policy does enable us to sign good quality players: Zemmama, Sheils, Boozy, and Liam Miller to name a few over the past 7-8 years. Imagine foccussing the wages of some of the dross we have had in the team over the past few years on 2-3 good quality players, of the same ilk as Stokes and others.

Realism is giving Fenlon time and at the very least 3 transfer windows to change things. So if you don't count last seasons JTW, that means he has had the summer, the current window and next summer to make some real changes. If we make a couple of signings today, with Liam Craig and no doubt a few other to come in next window we will start to reap the rewards.

And thats making it sound like we are having a disastrous season, which we aren't. We are sitting fourth, 3 points off 2nd and 3rd place in a very competitive league. A few poor results and we are still 4th, we still have the chance to stay in the mix for europe.


Why is patience only really attributed to manager timescales? The real problem isnt just bad managers and bad players putting us back a step every time thus we have these discussions. The board early on were good but as time goes on there have been more and more mistakes thus in 2013 we are having to be patient yet again or at least discuss being patient, the club have wasted valuable money and time to have us today looking to be patient again.

This club should be delivering now and for last few years, 10th then 11th are utterly unacceptable positions to finish this far on in their tenure.

[Pete]

EVERY manager brought in comes in with a genuine plan of his own. Every single one. There's nothing about the current rebuilding job to suggest it's any more 'genuine' than ANY previous one.

Every manager does come in with a plan but Fenlon has been given a task like no other manager. His first was to save us from relegation with a bunch of loanees and he did that. We got roasted in the cup final with a team that couldn't care less and he was the one who had to pick up the pieces. By that I mean pick players who are not only good enough for the club but have the correct mentality.
Make no mistake, Pat will change the whole squad over time to those who have the required mentality. No manager has ever been responsible for changing the culture of our club before but Petrie and Pat know what is required.



And we're a damn sight more than just a mixu and a zooma from being a good team.

Perhaps, but these are the key areas that need to be strengthened. Would Dean Shiels and Brewster complete it for you or are there other areas we need to improve on?
I think the poor performances and lack of support in these areas is putting pressure on our defence and defensive midfielders. It's making players out to be mugs when they aren't. This howking gap is doing the same to Sparky and is not playing to his strengths.

When you break it down it isn't that bad. The team as a whole might be playing that way but hopefully the new signings are the missing link and we can start to see it working.

We have a mass talent at both ends of the pitch that other teams would give their right arm for!

[Pete]

Is End Off a sweary phrase, like **** off or **** off?

'End of' as in 'discussion' only has one 'f' yet I see many like the post above using two 'f's.

Am I missing a new sweary phrase that has leaped into our cultural vernacular?

:agree:

"End of" is short for "End of conversation" of "End of discussion".

"End off" has no meaning whatsoever. Unless it's a new way of signing off some CB channel (one for the kids)


If people actually thought about what they were writing then this wouldn't happen. I'm close to loooseing my temper!

[Pete]

Reactions like this to being 4th place are part of the current problem.

Have to agree.

There's far too much self-analysis going on whenever something goes slightly wrong. People are thinking with the mentality of a pubescent teenager... always looking inwards and not taking the big picture into consideration.



We aren't any different to any other club and have no real issues! Take a step back and look at what we do have!!