Standard of Football in Scotland

[SMAXXA]

Whats peoples thoughts on the current standard of football in Scotland these days. More so from the lower leagues, I think it seems to have improved alot over the last few years, ive seen quite a few of the Sevco games and the other teams seem to be playing football the right way and seem to have much improved in recent seasons. Even throughout the first and second devisions teams look better, QOS being a good example and the first devison has a number of decent teams and its a really tight league.

I think the bridge in the gap between the SPL and the rest isnt as big as it used to be, which can only be a big positive for the Scottish Game as a whole.

[Hibbyradge]

It's woeful.

[Gatecrasher]

Whats peoples thoughts on the current standard of football in Scotland these days. More so from the lower leagues, I think it seems to have improved alot over the last few years, ive seen quite a few of the Sevco games and the other teams seem to be playing football the right way and seem to have much improved in recent seasons. Even throughout the first and second devisions teams look better, QOS being a good example and the first devison has a number of decent teams and its a really tight league.

I think the bridge in the gap between the SPL and the rest isnt as big as it used to be, which can only be a big positive for the Scottish Game as a whole.
I dont think its as bad as a lot of people make out, however I think the people who run Scottish football need to make changes for the right reasons rather than chasing the TV Money. I was speaking to a Ross County STH during the week and he thinks there is a big step up between the 1st Division and the SPL.

[bingo70]

I think its a lot better than its given credit for but never going to be as good as the premiership so we'll always be told its pish as long as people are comparing it to what they see on tv.

As for lower league football I don't watch any of it so can't comment on it but there seems to be a lot of young players being linked to the SPL and down south compared to what used to happen so I'm guessing its improving.

[Golden Bear]

I heard a football agent on Radio Scotland saying that Ryan Fraser will be on ten times the wages with Bournemouth than he was on with Aberdeen.

Cash is king and it's a worrying sign for Scottish Football that the cream of our football talent is heading south at such an early stage of their careers.

[Russell The Dug]

SPL has some decent sides that play good football. Always good games in the first division too and there's a lot more kids making the top of the Scottish game.

[SMAXXA]

It's woeful.

In comparison to recent years?

[Russell The Dug]

SPL has some decent sides that play good football. Always good games in the first division too and there's a lot more kids making the top of the Scottish game.

[hfc rd]

I'd say that this SPL season is the best we've had in years.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sky tv has ruined Scottish football, we can no longer compete with the top teams in England. The money our nearest neighbours can generate all the way down to non league is strangling our game, players are leaving our game much earlier for the riches they can get than they used to do.

Its a worrying time imo, folk turn on their telly and watch a much higher standard than we provide and expect similar when they turn up at easter road?????????

We are now competing with 3rd tier English clubs for players, and consequently getting 3rd tier or even less football.

I have no idea what the answer is other than rearing our own players, although they will be off as soon as someone comes in to quadruple their wages. I know thats always been the case, but we'd normally get at least 2 3 or even 4 seasons out of them first.

Aberdeen have hardly seen much of the guy they have just sold, Kilmarnock was the same with their youngster they sold last season. If we have to sell those types of players that early, we wont even get that decent a price as we wont have seen their full potential like we did with Scott Brown?

Imagine we'd sold him after 1 season like those at Aberdeen and Killie, we'd have got a fraction of the price we did, as i said its worrying times for Scottish football?

[Mikey]

Sky tv has ruined Scottish football, we can no longer compete with the top teams in England.

Yep.

Scottish football is what we've got. We can either back it or watch the results come in on Sky Sports News on a Saturday afternoon from the golf club.

Use it or lose it.

[hfc rd]

Sky tv has ruined Scottish football, we can no longer compete with the top teams in England. The money our nearest neighbours can generate all the way down to non league is strangling our game, players are leaving our game much earlier for the riches they can get than they used to do.

Its a worrying time imo, folk turn on their telly and watch a much higher standard than we provide and expect similar when they turn up at easter road?????????

We are now competing with 3rd tier English clubs for players, and consequently getting 3rd tier or even less football.

I have no idea what the answer is other than rearing our own players, although they will be off as soon as someone comes in to quadruple their wages. I know thats always been the case, but we'd normally get at least 2 3 or even 4 seasons out of them first.

Aberdeen have hardly seen much of the guy they have just sold, Kilmarnock was the same with their youngster they sold last season. If we have to sell those types of players that early, we wont even get that decent a price as we wont have seen their full potential like we did with Scott Brown?

Imagine we'd sold him after 1 season like those at Aberdeen and Killie, we'd have got a fraction of the price we did, as i said its worrying times for Scottish football?



Good point. But don't like agents come into this. Quickly want to make money for themselves and their player. Sometimes the young players can get brain-washed by the money seeking agents.

I feel sorry for the clubs mentioned like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock. Losing young players who they gave a chance to make it as a professional and then getting the two fingers when they leave at such a young age for the big money.

[bingo70]

Sky tv has ruined Scottish football, we can no longer compete with the top teams in England. The money our nearest neighbours can generate all the way down to non league is strangling our game, players are leaving our game much earlier for the riches they can get than they used to do.

Its a worrying time imo, folk turn on their telly and watch a much higher standard than we provide and expect similar when they turn up at easter road?????????

We are now competing with 3rd tier English clubs for players, and consequently getting 3rd tier or even less football.

I have no idea what the answer is other than rearing our own players, although they will be off as soon as someone comes in to quadruple their wages. I know thats always been the case, but we'd normally get at least 2 3 or even 4 seasons out of them first.

Aberdeen have hardly seen much of the guy they have just sold, Kilmarnock was the same with their youngster they sold last season. If we have to sell those types of players that early, we wont even get that decent a price as we wont have seen their full potential like we did with Scott Brown?

Imagine we'd sold him after 1 season like those at Aberdeen and Killie, we'd have got a fraction of the price we did, as i said its worrying times for Scottish football?

Totally agree.

On top of that when we do lose all the good young players to England we then get the influential English media and Scottish managers working down south telling us constantly how bad the game is despite the fact i bet they never actually watch it, Sir Alex was guilty of that recently, if he had nothing positive to say he shouldn't have said anything, to save Scottish football we need to persuade fans to come back not discourage them by telling them it's pish constantly.

I don't know what the answers are but i think summer football has got to be considered, the idea is not without flaws but we just can't compete with English clubs for players so maybe we need to start working with them and Sky, I'm sure they'd like competitive football throughout the summer and there's bound to be players from down south that would like the chance to raise their profile by playing when english clubs would be watching, could also work for players returning from injury at the end of the English season.

[Mikey]

to save Scottish football we need to persuade fans to come back not discourage them by telling them it's pish constantly.



:agree:

[Hibbyradge]

In comparison to recent years?

Hibs might be slightly better this season, but overall the standard in Scotland is falling.

Most players can't/won't trap a ball that comes at them from height and when they try to, they control if further than I can kick it.

Whether under pressure or not, defenders generally opt for a long clearance rather than a short pass and a move to get it back.

In my opinion, the skill levels are very low and games aren't good to watch.

[jdships]

I heard a football agent on Radio Scotland saying that Ryan Fraser will be on ten times the wages with Bournemouth than he was on with Aberdeen.

Cash is king and it's a worrying sign for Scottish Football that the cream of our football talent is heading south at such an early stage of their careers.

:agree:

Have a friend whose son (23) is with a mid table Championship side in England
Five starts and fifteen on the bench - £9000 a week plus bonuses . Reckons his gross earnings will be close to £500000
Outside the OF who in Scotland are able to offer half that wage ?

:rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

As mikey has said, the only way it can get better is to support it.

Far too many are happy to moan about the standard without actually considering why its poor, and would rather take the pish while snuggled up at home with their fire on watching the main reason we are getting poorer by the year?

[jdships]

Hibs might be slightly better this season, but overall the standard in Scotland is falling.

Most players can't/won't trap a ball that comes at them from height and when they try to, they control if further than I can kick it.

Whether under pressure or not, defenders generally opt for a long clearance rather than a short pass and a move to get it back.

In my opinion, the skill levels are very low and games aren't good to watch.


Much as it irks me to say it I agree with all your write
Football is part of the entertainment industry and given that we ( Scottish football) are away down the pecking order .
A few years ago Saturday afternoon was when you and your mates went to ' The Game ' come hell or high water , now I ( and most of my mates who are still around ) find I have no incentive to get out of my chair .

[hibsbollah]

The quality is very poor. But considering the vast gulf in finances between the SPL and even 2nd and 3rd tier English clubs we're actually punching above our weight.

When you consider clubs like Huddersfield can outbid Celtc for a weekly wage for the likes of Jordan Rhodes, its not surprising we're not seeing higher quality players in the league. We need to stop comparing ourselves with English clubs and getting hung up on it; we're not on the same planet.

[Hibbyradge]

Yep.

Scottish football is what we've got. We can either back it or watch the results come in on Sky Sports News on a Saturday afternoon from the golf club.

Use it or lose it.

People will go to matches if it's more enjoyable to do so than whatever else is on offer, be it fresh air, exercise and golf, or an unhealthy afternoon in the pub.

It seems like years since I went to a game and came away having really enjoyed it.

Beating Hearts in the cup was great, but the game was terrible. I would much rather have been playing golf than suffering the sight of us conceding a 2 goal lead to a mediocre Motherwell side.

Despite the inference in some posts on here, people have no responsibility or duty to Hibs.

Crowds fall when the team is poor, they rise when things improve. Criticising stay away fans and golfers is conveniently missing those points, imo.

[bingo70]

Much as it irks me to say it I agree with all your write
Football is part of the entertainment industry and given that we ( Scottish football) are away down the pecking order .
A few years ago Saturday afternoon was when you and your mates went to ' The Game ' come hell or high water , now I ( and most of my mates who are still around ) find I have no incentive to get out of my chair .

You might not be keen to admit it but would playing in warmer weather encourage you to go?

I'm just thinking in terms of the summer football debate would people be more willing to 'suffer' the standard of football if it wasn't going to be so miserable? Yesterday for example was absolutely miserable and it was an awful game but i wondered if the weather was alright and not as cold it might not have been quite as ***** a day out. There's bound to be people who contemplate going but look out the window and decide "**** that, i'll stay in the pub and watch the scores come in"

[Hibbyradge]

As mikey has said, the only way it can get better is to support it.

Far too many are happy to moan about the standard without actually considering why its poor, and would rather take the pish while snuggled up at home with their fire on watching the main reason we are getting poorer by the year?

Our average crowds are higher now than they were in the 70's when we had a good, entertaining side and income is many times higher in real terms.

It's not the fans fault that standards are falling. As you pointed out, it's the fault of the TV deal in England and there's nothing we can do to redress the balance.

[Northernhibee]

We need to bite the bullet and create a bigger league where there's less pressure on mid table teams so youngsters can come through and there's less of a "win at all costs" mentality. Look at the last derby; the pitch was small and not designed for slick passing football and it had been watered so much it resembled 'It's a Knockout' as opposed to anything worthwhile.

We need conditions there for youngsters to get time to develop whilst getting first team game time. We need to agree on a style of play that should be throughout the SPL, it's what happened in Germany last time their national team had a slump in form and after some time the quality has shot up.

I'm hoping that Strachan will get an identity back into Scottish football again. On the big football debate that was on BBC Scotland Levein thinks that players should be able to play the long ball game just as well as a slick, passing game so they can play under any manager but that doesn't work and it's why he failed, without focusing on any particular style we were mediocre at an attractive, attacking game and mediocre at the hoof it and hope game.

I'd like to see the boy Pressley have some input into the future of Scottish football, every time he is interviewed about it he simply speaks sense. Maybe John Collins too in regards to establishing the fitness required for an athlete in the Scottish professional leagues.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our average crowds are higher now than they were in the 70's when we had a good, entertaining side and income is many times higher in real terms.

It's not the fans fault that standards are falling. As you pointed out, it's the fault of the TV deal in England and there's nothing we can do to redress the balance.

So whats the point in folk moaning about whats on offer Dave?

We might not like it but we are seeing our football reach its level now as a British game, not a Scottish game as a direct result of their tv deal.

I wonder if those in the English 3rd tier complain and moan about the standard of football on show compared to the EPL?

[bingo70]

We need to bite the bullet and create a bigger league where there's less pressure on mid table teams so youngsters can come through and there's less of a "win at all costs" mentality. Look at the last derby; the pitch was small and not designed for slick passing football and it had been watered so much it resembled 'It's a Knockout' as opposed to anything worthwhile.

We need conditions there for youngsters to get time to develop whilst getting first team game time. We need to agree on a style of play that should be throughout the SPL, it's what happened in Germany last time their national team had a slump in form and after some time the quality has shot up.

I'm hoping that Strachan will get an identity back into Scottish football again. On the big football debate that was on BBC Scotland Levein thinks that players should be able to play the long ball game just as well as a slick, passing game so they can play under any manager but that doesn't work and it's why he failed, without focusing on any particular style we were mediocre at an attractive, attacking game and mediocre at the hoof it and hope game.

I'd like to see the boy Pressley have some input into the future of Scottish football, every time he is interviewed about it he simply speaks sense. Maybe John Collins too in regards to establishing the fitness required for an athlete in the Scottish professional leagues.

Pressley seems a but too sure of his own opinion considering he doesn't appear to be doing a particularly good job at Falkirk with whats apparently a good crop of youngsters.

In terms of developing a style of play from youth football to the senior game Mark Wotte has been employed to develop this so what you're looking for has started already.

I disagree about your point about the bigger league, there's no easy answer to the league debate but i do think one big league with loads of teams would just be boring and would drive crowds down further.

[Northernhibee]

Pressley seems a but too sure of his own opinion considering he doesn't appear to be doing a particularly good job at Falkirk with whats apparently a good crop of youngsters.

In terms of developing a style of play from youth football to the senior game Mark Wotte has been employed to develop this so what you're looking for has started already.

I disagree about your point about the bigger league, there's no easy answer to the league debate but i do think one big league with loads of teams would just be boring and would drive crowds down further.

Looking at last season if we have an eighteen team league we probably would have been bottom third but not relegation battlers. It'd have been much easier to not play O'Hanlon, Towell etc. and bring on the likes of Caldwell and Handling for game time and starts if there was less of a threat.

A few bad results in this league can see you right in a relegation dogfight, there needs to be more margin for error in the league IMO however we do that.

[DC_Hibs]

I'd say that this SPL season is the best we've had in years.

The question was on the standard not how competitive the league is.

The standard is very poor which is how this Hibs squad got themselves into 2nd place.

[Hibbyradge]

So whats the point in folk moaning about whats on offer Dave?



The OP asked a question. I answered.




We might not like it but we are seeing our football reach its level now as a British game, not a Scottish game as a direct result of their tv deal.

I wonder if those in the English 3rd tier complain and moan about the standard of football on show compared to the EPL?

I don't know if they moan about it or not, but they certainly vote with their feet.

I don't expect the SPL to be of a similar standard to the EPL or anywhere else.

I just want to enjoy going to games again. Is that really so bad?

[bingo70]

Looking at last season if we have an eighteen team league we probably would have been bottom third but not relegation battlers. It'd have been much easier to not play O'Hanlon, Towell etc. and bring on the likes of Caldwell and Handling for game time and starts if there was less of a threat.

A few bad results in this league can see you right in a relegation dogfight, there needs to be more margin for error in the league IMO however we do that.

I don't disagree with the need for encouragement to play youngsters but if you take last season our season would have been over by November and playing a bunch of youngsters that probably aren't good enough (if they are good enough they need to force there way in) wouldn't have been enough to bring the crowds back, add that to fewer big games and we'd also get less money as the TV deal would be worse.

We need to think of something, even if it's a rule that every team needs to play so many homegrown players or something but IMO enforcing a boring league with less income so we could bring through more average young players isn't going to be the answer to our problems.

[DC_Hibs]

:agree:

Have a friend whose son (23) is with a mid table Championship side in England
Five starts and fifteen on the bench - £9000 a week plus bonuses . Reckons his gross earnings will be close to £500000
Outside the OF who in Scotland are able to offer half that wage ?

:rolleyes:

If that's Watford I'd be very surprised if they are paying him that when they could probably have got him to sign for anything over 3k a week.

[LeighLoyal]

The average championship wage is 4-5k, so you're lad is well overpaid.

[Mikey]

Our average crowds are higher now than they were in the 70's when we had a good, entertaining side and income is many times higher in real terms.

It's not the fans fault that standards are falling. As you pointed out, it's the fault of the TV deal in England and there's nothing we can do to redress the balance.

It certainly isn't. But they can do something about making it better.

[blackpoolhibs]

The average championship wage is 4-5k, so you're lad is well overpaid.

Not true.:confused:

[Hibbyradge]

Not true.:confused:

http://soccerlens.com/finance-in-english-football-wage-disparities-between-the-divisions/92692/

[James70]

Sky tv has ruined Scottish football, we can no longer compete with the top teams in England. The money our nearest neighbours can generate all the way down to non league is strangling our game, players are leaving our game much earlier for the riches they can get than they used to do.

:agree:


I grudge paying anything to Sky but cable tv is not available where I live and the number of Freeview channels available here is dire. The best bit about Sky to me is the Sky+ box with it's record/playback options.

I no longer subscribe to the sports channels partly because Scottish football is given such a raw deal and I just enjoy watching the best bits on MOTD and any live games which are on BBC and ITV.

[bingo70]

While discussing the state of scottish football i thought this might be a decent place to post this bit of skill by Gary Mackay-Steven, hope there's a few more like him coming through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtXTcYNoMI

[blackpoolhibs]

http://soccerlens.com/finance-in-english-football-wage-disparities-between-the-divisions/92692/

Well thats a complete surprise to me, but i know why. i know a couple of players that play for Blackpool and they are on more than twice that? I suppose in theory it is correct when including all the players, thats why its the average, but take Blackpool for instance.

They have 46 players registered, the first team squad are all paid much more than £4k a week, and thats what we have to compare with, not those making up the numbers when we are comparing in my opinion.

[Mikey]

As mikey has said, the only way it can get better is to support it.

Far too many are happy to moan about the standard without actually considering why its poor, and would rather take the pish while snuggled up at home with their fire on watching the main reason we are getting poorer by the year?

One thing I can assure you of, when the 2013/14 season tickets are released there will be post after post on here giving reasons AGAINST buying one. And the same folk will be on here at midnight on 31st August moaning because the club hasn't done enough in the transfer window.

[bingo70]

One thing I can assure you of, when the 2013/14 season tickets are released there will be post after post on here giving reasons AGAINST buying one. And the same folk will be on here at midnight on 31st August moaning because the club hasn't done enough in the transfer window.

Maybe the club should listen to why people haven't renewed then.

They NEED to start offering better value for season tickets, the offers this year were completely pish IMO and it's been proven relying on blind loyalty and putting statements up on the website doesn't work.

[smurf]

It certainly isn't. But they can do something about making it better.

Do what? I've bought season tickets at Easter Road for twenty years. And the standard today is as bad as it's ever been. Yesterday the quality was awful. With very little excitement. Pointing the blame at those paying to watch the product is bizzare.

[Mikey]

Do what? I've bought season tickets at Easter Road for twenty years. And the standard today is as bad as it's ever been. Yesterday the quality was awful. With very little excitement. Pointing the blame at those paying to watch the product is bizzare.

Hiya. How was your holiday :greengrin

[smurf]

Hiya. How was your holiday :greengrin

Now if I had not dealt with the point raised then that's an entirely different story....

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe the club should listen to why people haven't renewed then.

They NEED to start offering better value for season tickets, the offers this year were completely pish IMO and it's been proven relying on blind loyalty and putting statements up on the website doesn't work.

I'd love to know what the club could do to offer better value season tickets, as to me that just means cheaper season tickets?

Now i'd love to see season tickets and PATG entry cheaper, personally i think the games far too expensive these days especially for whats on offer.

The problem the club has is we all seem to expect better, but everyone wants to pay less? I certainly dont know the answer, wish i did?

[Mikey]

Now if I had not dealt with the point raised then that's an entirely different story....

Well I'm sure you had a lovely time.

Don't you think we'd have better players if another 2000 folk pitched up at the home games rather than spending the same money shopping, in the pub, golfing, etc?

[Big Frank]

Well I'm sure you had a lovely time.

Don't you think we'd have better players if another 2000 folk pitched up at the home games rather than spending the same money shopping, in the pub, golfing, etc?

Don't you think we would have better players if our club didnt have to pay so many managers off?

[Mikey]

Don't you think we would have better players if our club didnt have to pay so many managers off?

Yep, I'm sure we would.

[Vault Boy]

I think this year has been very entertaining. Teams are willing to pass the ball around and a lot of goals have been scored. I feel the biggest problems come with Celtic, investment, and reputation. Scottish clubs obviously can't compete with Championship and some League 1 clubs for wages, but the reputation of the SPL outside of Scotland is very poor, that doesn't help when it comes to retention of good players and the signing of other. The problem with Celtic is an obvious one, no one can challenge them, they are going to win the league which is sad to say.
Overall I'd say the standard of football is inconsistent, but at times quite decent. Any team can beat any of the other teams outside Celtic, which improves competitiveness.

[Big Frank]

Yep, I'm sure we would.

Great. So the fan bashing post (coz its always the fans eh) is as moot as my board bashing post :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Don't you think we would have better players if our club didnt have to pay so many managers off?

I dont know the answer to that, what i do know is we cant change any of that. We cant knock down the new stand and spend that money again either?

What we can do though, is turn up in numbers, back the team and give the manager more to spend next season.

What are the odds that wont happen, and folk will just moan we are pish instead?

[marinello59]

I'd love to know what the club could do to offer better value season tickets, as to me that just means cheaper season tickets?

Now i'd love to see season tickets and PATG entry cheaper, personally i think the games far too expensive these days especially for whats on offer.

The problem the club has is we all seem to expect better, but everyone wants to pay less? I certainly dont know the answer, wish i did?

Our main problem is trying to compete against our cash rich southern neighbours for players of a decent standard. We need to find our own niche and TV market. i'll whisper it because I by many will be shouted down, Summer Football. It won't cure all the ills but it may well allow us to attract better players and introduce an expanded top flight rather than the dogs breakfast currently being discussed.

[Mikey]

Great. So the fan bashing post (coz its always the fans eh) is as moot as my board bashing post :wink:

Back to this eh? Big bad Mikey's blaming the fans again.

Heard it all before :wink:

[marinello59]

Do what? I've bought season tickets at Easter Road for twenty years. And the standard today is as bad as it's ever been. Yesterday the quality was awful. With very little excitement. Pointing the blame at those paying to watch the product is bizzare.

If we turned up in bigger numbers then we could improve things............but only slightly. It's TV money that's leaving us as a footballing backwater, not the long suffering fans.

[bingo70]

I'd love to know what the club could do to offer better value season tickets, as to me that just means cheaper season tickets?

Now i'd love to see season tickets and PATG entry cheaper, personally i think the games far too expensive these days especially for whats on offer.

The problem the club has is we all seem to expect better, but everyone wants to pay less? I certainly dont know the answer, wish i did?


I think patg is what it needs to be but if st prices were reduced so there was a clear saving then more people would committ.

I never renewed this year but I've gone every week, I would have renewed if I thought it was better value, I'm sure I'm not the only one like that.

[Big Frank]

I dont know the answer to that, what i do know is we cant change any of that. We cant knock down the new stand and spend that money again either?

What we can do though, is turn up in numbers, back the team and give the manager more to spend next season.

What are the odds that wont happen, and folk will just moan we are pish instead?

I think we have generally.

Can't think of another set of supporters who have been so consistantly booted in the baws in the last, say 5 years going on 6?


Best support in the land !

(Seltick & Rangers & Merricks pull our numbers after (pretty much) 30 years + of dross ? No for me.)

Club needs to do more. Sir Tom needs to do more. whoo. There I said it :wink:

[Big Frank]

Back to this eh? Big bad Mikey's blaming the fans again.

Heard it all before :wink:

Come out and blame the club - go on, I know you want to. I don't know if your big, or bad mikey.

But you are consistant.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our main problem is trying to compete against our cash rich southern neighbours for players of a decent standard. We need to find our own niche and TV market. i'll whisper it because I by many will be shouted down, Summer Football. It won't cure all the ills but it may well allow us to attract better players and introduce an expanded top flight rather than the dogs breakfast currently being discussed.

:agree: I know some folk are against it, but i agree about summer football. Unless we do something drastic like that, things will not get any better imo.

We have way too many football clubs wanting a piece of the pie, and really could do with losing at least 10 maybe even more? We need a leaner top 2 division, with some teams going part time and going into the regional leagues.

2 leagues of 16 played over the summer months, with the bottom 2 relegated and the next 2 in play offs against 3rd and 4th in the 2nd division. Only playing each other twice is my preference too, but i know it will never happen, but we can all dream?

[smurf]

Well I'm sure you had a lovely time.

Don't you think we'd have better players if another 2000 folk pitched up at the home games rather than spending the same money shopping, in the pub, golfing, etc?

Yes of course. And those that don't go who can go upset me every bit as much as they obviously do you! Especially because yes another 2000 on our gate you would like to think would make a difference.

Though would it? We have a lot more than plus 2000 over Motherwell, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone, Ross County, St Mirren and Kilmarnock. And we have had for years.

Despite that would any of us really feel confident of beating any on a neutral ground?

So let's forget about those not attending. That's up to them. And hopefully by making better use of the resources that we do have (that's greater than most) we can improve to the benefit of us that do attend.

The glass doesn't need to be half empty.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yes of course. And those that don't go who can go upset me every bit as much as they obviously do you! Especially because yes another 2000 on our gate you would like to think would make a difference.

Though would it? We have a lot more than plus 2000 over Motherwell, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone, Ross County, St Mirren and Kilmarnock. And we have had for years.

Despite that would any of us really feel confident of beating any on a neutral ground?

So let's forget about those not attending. That's up to them. And hopefully by making better use of the resources that we do have (that's greater than most) we can improve to the benefit of us that do attend.

The glass doesn't need to be half empty.

last season i'd have said no, this season i'd say we'd have as good chance as any, is that not progress? Just remember where we were this time last season, i'd not have backed us to beat a set of traffic cones.

[Hibbyradge]

Well I'm sure you had a lovely time.

Don't you think we'd have better players if another 2000 folk pitched up at the home games rather than spending the same money shopping, in the pub, golfing, etc?

https://communities.bmc.com/communities/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-2433-13112/Chicken_or_Egg.jpg

[smurf]

last season i'd have said no, this season i'd say we'd have as good chance as any, is that not progress? Just remember where we were this time last season, i'd not have backed us to beat a set of traffic cones.

But with our greater resources we should be better equipped and be confident of winning? Would another 2000 really make a huge difference on the park?

[SMAXXA]

Yes of course. And those that don't go who can go upset me every bit as much as they obviously do you! Especially because yes another 2000 on our gate you would like to think would make a difference.

Though would it? We have a lot more than plus 2000 over Motherwell, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone, Ross County, St Mirren and Kilmarnock. And we have had for years.

Despite that would any of us really feel confident of beating any on a neutral ground?

So let's forget about those not attending. That's up to them. And hopefully by making better use of the resources that we do have (that's greater than most) we can improve to the benefit of us that do attend.

The glass doesn't need to be half empty.

Got to remember we have higher overheads than all these clubs mentioned with the costs of full development of the ground and the general running and maintenance of ER and EM. Not to mention the cash we've pished away on appointing and paying off managers the last few years with little coming in by way of transfer fees. I don't think we should lose sight of this as its relevant to the squad and playing personnel we can put on the park.

[Del Boy]

While discussing the state of scottish football i thought this might be a decent place to post this bit of skill by Gary Mackay-Steven, hope there's a few more like him coming through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtXTcYNoMI

Boy is a class act, easily the most skilful player in the SPL seen a few other bits of skill from him on YouTube that Messi and ronaldo would be proud of!!

[blackpoolhibs]

But with our greater resources we should be better equipped and be confident of winning? Would another 2000 really make a huge difference on the park?

Just like that, you think we should be better equipped and pishing over teams who were pumping us recently 6 months after finishing 2nd bottom?

[Kato]

It's inconsistent.

[Gatecrasher]

if football was as predicitable as we have more money than you so we win, no one would watch it

[smurf]

Just like that, you think we should be better equipped and pishing over teams who were pumping us recently 6 months after finishing 2nd bottom?

When you have signed an entire new team then yes!

[blackpoolhibs]

When you have signed an entire new team then yes!

And that my friend is part of the problem.

[One Day]

Most players can't/won't trap a ball that comes at them from height and when they try to, they control if further than I can kick it.


Second touch ends up being a tackle

[IndieHibby]

Standard is ***** compared to 6-8 years ago. British league please :duck:

[blackpoolhibs]

Standard is ***** compared to 6-8 years ago. British league please :duck:

The funny thing about a British league is i'd see a lot more games. :greengrin

[Paisley Hibby]

I heard a football agent on Radio Scotland saying that Ryan Fraser will be on ten times the wages with Bournemouth than he was on with Aberdeen.

Cash is king and it's a worrying sign for Scottish Football that the cream of our football talent is heading south at such an early stage of their careers.

For me, this shows just how far Scottish Football has fallen. The very idea of an up and coming player moving from Aberdeen to Bournemouth would have been unthinkable in the days when Strachan, McLeish and Miller were playing for the Dons.

And its not just about money. My mates and I ended up laughing at some of the basic mistakes being made by players on both sides yesterday. You really have to wonder sometimes about what professional footballers in Scotland do with themselves all week.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Just seen three quality goals from ICT. Nice football too.

[SMAXXA]

Some really good points made on this threat. I was possibly more interested in the quality of the lower level outside the SPL. Watching games the lower 3 divisions seem to play a lot more football than I've seen in years and technically teams look better. In fairness I don't think some of the teams having 4G pitches has hindered, probably the exact opposite as focuses more emphasis on passing and using the surface. Possibly something that we will see increase in the SFL and maybe SPL in time?

Not advocating for this by any means but may be a contributing factor?

[HibeeSince85]

While discussing the state of scottish football i thought this might be a decent place to post this bit of skill by Gary Mackay-Steven, hope there's a few more like him coming through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtXTcYNoMI

Octopus drawer from the lad, fantastic skill.

[Jones28]

What summed it up for me today was the Motherwell - st Johnstone game. There were a couple of high balls that could have been quite easily brought down to feet. Instead they were headed away and possession was lost. It just takes a wee bit extra quality to improve the league, we just don't have it.

Of course the insane amount of money being dished out by sky doesn't help. That filters all the way down through English football, we don't have the same in Scotland.

To be fair, there is a fair amount of quality in the league, Gary Mackey-Steven with his wee bit of skill was just sublime yesterday. We just don't have the money to keep it.