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View Full Version : Kilmarnock FC - Winding Up Order



Prof. Shaggy
19-01-2013, 11:20 AM
Killie served a winding up order this morning.

surreyhibbie
19-01-2013, 11:23 AM
Sorry to hear that, a bit unexpected?

gackohibs
19-01-2013, 11:23 AM
Sauce?

#FromTheCapital
19-01-2013, 11:23 AM
At least they can sell killie pies to raise funds, killie pies are decent

HH81
19-01-2013, 11:24 AM
Any links?

Mate at work big killie fan he will be annoyed.

God Petrie
19-01-2013, 11:24 AM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.

--------
19-01-2013, 11:27 AM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.


Your compassion astounds me. :rolleyes:

JohnStephens91
19-01-2013, 11:28 AM
Not seen a thing about it anywhere. Hopefully it isn't true though.

blackpoolhibs
19-01-2013, 11:28 AM
I hope its a direct result of the huns going bust. :thumbsup:

KWJ
19-01-2013, 11:28 AM
Daily Mail, most likely pish.

EdinMike
19-01-2013, 11:30 AM
I was given a Winding Up Order too. Told my missus her cooking is **** and if she calls that cleaning !? Well...

:wink: Still I had a brief look and seen nothing, hope it's not true cause it'll be because of The Rangers right ?!?

GoldenEagle
19-01-2013, 11:32 AM
For £16k, it will get paid as they won't allow their hotel and stadium to go under for that amount.

Have to laugh at rangers fans getting all "we told the SPL they needed us"...there is still only one major club that has disappeared and that's the old Rangers FC

Mikey
19-01-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm sure this will be a hot topic of conversation for the Kilmarnock fans sitting in the boozer, or the golf club, watching today's scores come in :agree:

Scouse Hibee
19-01-2013, 11:37 AM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.


Yeah just what Scottish football needs eh!

Golden Bear
19-01-2013, 11:41 AM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.

:bitchy:

There's no need to link Killie with THEM - if indeed the OP's story is true.

I for one, hope it's not.

Twiglet
19-01-2013, 11:43 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2264947/Kilmarnock-served-winding-order-10m-debts.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Hermit Crab
19-01-2013, 11:47 AM
Boy on Facebook saying hearts are also facing a winding up order ?

God Petrie
19-01-2013, 11:48 AM
Yeah just what Scottish football needs eh!

Yep it needs less shambles clubs so this is a good start.

sambajustice
19-01-2013, 11:52 AM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.

Whilst I wouldnt put it like that, i do agree with it really.

There's far too many teams in Scotland, its ridiculous. 42 "Top" level clubs. Then after that there's a rake of junior clubs that get bigger crowds and have better infrastructures than the senior teams.

HH81
19-01-2013, 11:52 AM
Yep it needs less shambles clubs so this is a good start.

This board needs less crap posters too.... :-)

offshorehibby
19-01-2013, 11:53 AM
Jim Spence and Brian McLaughlin are usually pretty quick with info like that on twitter but nowt yet.

God Petrie
19-01-2013, 11:54 AM
This board needs less crap posters too.... :-)

Stop posting then

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 11:57 AM
It's a common credit-control tool.

The debt has "only" been outstanding a few months, and the WU application will be designed to concentrate Killie's mind. Normally, that works. (cf HMFC)

That said, it often means that there are serious cash-flow problems. IMO, that's what the recent player sales have been about.

HH81
19-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Stop posting then

Bully.

Ozyhibby
19-01-2013, 12:08 PM
Killie and Hearts have been living beyond their means for years now. There will be no sympathy from me.

HIBERNIAN-0762
19-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Sauce?

The chippy sauce from the Gold Sea in Ferry road is to die for....:wink:

HIBERNIAN-0762
19-01-2013, 12:12 PM
Boy on Facebook saying hearts are also facing a winding up order ?

Hope they get on with it then..

SmashinGlass
19-01-2013, 12:16 PM
Scaremongering by the Daily Mail. If solicitors were only instructed yesterday at 4pm, then it is impossible to have achieved service of a winding up petition this morning for a number of reasons. In real terms, an application for winding up is at the very least 14 days away.

Typical Daily Mail bull****

Part/Time Supporter
19-01-2013, 12:16 PM
It's a common credit-control tool.

The debt has "only" been outstanding a few months, and the WU application will be designed to concentrate Killie's mind. Normally, that works. (cf HMFC)

That said, it often means that there are serious cash-flow problems. IMO, that's what the recent player sales have been about.

Killie (and St. Johnstone) have been very dependent on incomes from non-football sources, the hotel in Killie's case. That must have come under pressure over the last 3-4 years, to the point where the hotel may be a cash drain on the football club at times. Then you also throw in the fact that Killie were the club most dependent on the OF visiting four times a season.

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 12:18 PM
Scaremongering by the Daily Mail. If solicitors were only instructed yesterday at 4pm, then it is impossible to have achieved service of a winding up petition this morning for a number of reasons. In real terms, an application for winding up is at the very least 14 days away.

Typical Daily Mail bull****

... and that ties in with my feeling about the tactics here. If Johnson reacts as he should to the report, then it's a result. The creditor gets paid, without the full expense of Coiurt action.

Jim44
19-01-2013, 12:18 PM
Boy on Facebook saying hearts are also facing a winding up order ?

Are they not in the Guiness Book of Records for the number of winding up orders taken against them?

Eyrie
19-01-2013, 12:19 PM
Good - time for the tinpot clubs like killie and hertz to deal with reality. Hope they go under.

Killie aren't a tin pot club, despite their chairman's attempt to alienate humanity by supporting the Huns RIP last summer. They're one of the bigger clubs in Scotland with a decent sized fan base compared to anyone outwith the Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen clubs so would make the cut if you tried to "rationalise" the 42 clubs to 18 or 24.

Couldn't care less about how they do on the pitch (except against the Ugly Sisters or Hearts) but wouldn't like to see them fold.

Spike Mandela
19-01-2013, 12:19 PM
Kenny Shiels has been winding folk up all season.

StevieC
19-01-2013, 12:19 PM
Killie (and St. Johnstone) have been very dependent on incomes from non-football sources

You sure about St Johnstone? I always got the impression that Geoff just worked to a very tight budget.

What external source of income do they have (other than the car boot sales and the visit of the Jehovas)?

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 12:19 PM
Killie (and St. Johnstone) have been very dependent on incomes from non-football sources, the hotel in Killie's case. That must have come under pressure over the last 3-4 years, to the point where the hotel may be a cash drain on the football club at times. Then you also throw in the fact that Killie were the club most dependent on the OF visiting four times a season.

Yup :agree:

So they are now finding their level....selling players, and presumably replacing them with younger and cheaper ones. I have no problem with that.

Prof. Shaggy
19-01-2013, 12:20 PM
It's a common credit-control tool.

The debt has "only" been outstanding a few months, and the WU application will be designed to concentrate Killie's mind. Normally, that works. (cf HMFC)

That said, it often means that there are serious cash-flow problems. IMO, that's what the recent player sales have been about.

My well-informed sauce speculates the Club's bank may use the development to force MJ to sell.
Perhaps to the consortium whose bid was rejected last year. He also told me the club debt increased in this year's accounts despite a small trading profit. Not the sort of thing I can get my pretty head round.

Cabbage East
19-01-2013, 12:23 PM
I feel sorry for the Killie fans as they are being run by an absolute bellend.

Hermit Crab
19-01-2013, 12:23 PM
Hope they get on with it then..

He posted about killie then said hearts also facing one. He's a current bun so no reason to lie about it.

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 12:25 PM
He posted about killie then said hearts also facing one. He's a current bun so no reason to lie about it.

Who has made the Hearts application?

Jack Hackett
19-01-2013, 12:29 PM
I read the Daily Mail once.....I felt dirty for weeks

SmashinGlass
19-01-2013, 12:29 PM
... and that ties in with my feeling about the tactics here. If Johnson reacts as he should to the report, then it's a result. The creditor gets paid, without the full expense of Coiurt action.

Exactly my feelings on it too. Hopefully it has the desired effect. For as much as Killie got some abuse over their chairman's stance on the sevco issue, the last thing Scottish football needs is another casualty.

Thegreenside
19-01-2013, 12:30 PM
Sauce?

only salt 'n vinegar in killie

carnoustiehibee
19-01-2013, 12:32 PM
If the lack of income from OF games that clubs get, force them to sell big earners and bring through young Scottish talent. It can only be good for the future of Scottish football.

Killie are one of Scotlands bigger clubs, but is that only because they've spent out with their means?

Hainan Hibs
19-01-2013, 12:40 PM
Their financial problem probably has a link to the number of buses destined for Ibrox or Celtic Park each week that depart from Ayrshire.

hfc rd
19-01-2013, 12:46 PM
Their financial problem probably has a link to the number of buses destined for Ibrox or Celtic Park each week that depart from Ayrshire.


This.

Ozyhibby
19-01-2013, 12:49 PM
Their financial problem probably has a link to the number of buses destined for Ibrox or Celtic Park each week that depart from Ayrshire.

44,000 people live in Kilmarnock. Kilmarnock FC average 5,500 fans per game. Are there any teams in the rest of the UK that are as well supported as Kilmarnock from such a small Population?
Old Firm fans are not the problem, the population of Kilmarnock is.

Moulin Yarns
19-01-2013, 12:55 PM
You sure about St Johnstone? I always got the impression that Geoff just worked to a very tight budget.

What external source of income do they have (other than the car boot sales and the visit of the Jehovas)?

They rent out the all weather pitch and it seems to be in use most evenings, then the field behind the east stand is rented to the motor trade for vehicle storage, then there is the circus that is held there every year, although with the demise of RFC that isn't as often now :wink:

Mikey
19-01-2013, 01:14 PM
Scaremongering by the Daily Mail. If solicitors were only instructed yesterday at 4pm, then it is impossible to have achieved service of a winding up petition this morning for a number of reasons. In real terms, an application for winding up is at the very least 14 days away.

Typical Daily Mail bull****

There's certainly nowt scheduled at Kilmarnock Sheriff court in the next few days.

Hibercelona
19-01-2013, 01:19 PM
Don't really understand the overall sympathetic attitude on here towards them.

If they spend more than their earnings, then why should they be shown anymore sympathy than Hearts?

Twa Cairpets
19-01-2013, 01:36 PM
Don't really understand the overall sympathetic attitude on here towards them.

If they spend more than their earnings, then why should they be shown anymore sympathy than Hearts?

Because their fans aren't inflated with a sense of their own importance entirely at odds with there actual position in the scheme of things.

Mikey
19-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Because their fans aren't inflated with a sense of their own importance entirely at odds with there actual position in the scheme of things.

Indeed. Their fans have been wanting to punt the arse that runs their club for some time.

Just like a lot of Hibs fans :greengrin

Caversham Green
19-01-2013, 02:02 PM
Scaremongering by the Daily Mail. If solicitors were only instructed yesterday at 4pm, then it is impossible to have achieved service of a winding up petition this morning for a number of reasons. In real terms, an application for winding up is at the very least 14 days away.

Typical Daily Mail bull****

:agree: The article contradicts itself. It starts by saying that Killie's 'cash crisis' deepened after they were served with a winding up order and then goes on to say that the process hasn't even been started yet. It also talks about debt of £9.8m and then says that the £16,000 is due to a 'leading creditor'. Terrible journalism, but just what we've come to expect from The Mail.

This looks like the creditor using the reporter's intellectual limitations to help with his debt collection.

Keith_M
19-01-2013, 02:30 PM
:agree: The article contradicts itself. It starts by saying that Killie's 'cash crisis' deepened after they were served with a winding up order and then goes on to say that the process hasn't even been started yet. It also talks about debt of £9.8m and then says that the £16,000 is due to a 'leading creditor'. Terrible journalism, but just what we've come to expect from The Mail.

This looks like the creditor using the reporter's intellectual limitations to help with his debt collection.


.....and then follows the story with the link to another one about 'bl**dy immigrants'. I don't know why anyone bothers reading that reactionist, right-wing rag.

sahib
19-01-2013, 02:37 PM
Don't really understand the overall sympathetic attitude on here towards them.

If they spend more than their earnings, then why should they be shown anymore sympathy than Hearts?

We spend more than we are earning.

I refer here to Hibs - as well as the Sahib household.

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 02:39 PM
We spend more than we are earning.

I refer here to Hibs - as well as the Sahib household.

No we don't. The loss in the accounts, in the main, was caused by non-cash items like Depreciation.

Per RP at the AGM... "we operate a break-even policy".

Chibs
19-01-2013, 03:10 PM
No we don't. The loss in the accounts, in the main, was caused by non-cash items like Depreciation.

Per RP at the AGM... "we operate a break-even policy".
Aw can someone translate that into McFud ye ken

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 04:19 PM
Aw can someone translate that into McFud ye ken

By break-even, I mean that we spend what we earn.

The non-cash b0ll0x is just accountant-speak. Ignore it. :wink:

sahib
19-01-2013, 06:11 PM
By break-even, I mean that we spend what we earn.

The non-cash b0ll0x is just accountant-speak. Ignore it. :wink:

Should we not then be spending less relative to earnings, inorder to take account of depreciation?
:confused:

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Should we not then be spending less relative to earnings, inorder to take account of depreciation?
:confused:

Only if we think we will need the cash in the foreseeable to replace those assets that are being depreciated.

NOLA
19-01-2013, 07:16 PM
Yeah just what Scottish football needs eh!
Why not? Too many clubs in scottish football for a country this size, I'm going to have a look at scandinavian football and see how many clubs those countrys have knocking about

vanNISHtelroy
19-01-2013, 07:40 PM
Killie (and St. Johnstone) have been very dependent on incomes from non-football sources, the hotel in Killie's case. That must have come under pressure over the last 3-4 years, to the point where the hotel may be a cash drain on the football club at times. Then you also throw in the fact that Killie were the club most dependent on the OF visiting four times a season.

The hotel has always made a loss as far as I remember...it contributes towards cash flow during close season though.

Didn't hear it myself but apparently the beloved leaders opinion on the issue from radio interview earlier:

"No truth in it - part of routine trading - supplier trying to get to top of list (of creditors) - wants payment ahead of normal schedule - over-dramatising by going to the press."

Sir David Gray
19-01-2013, 09:18 PM
Boy on Facebook saying hearts are also facing a winding up order ?

What, another one!?

At this rate they'll be getting their own court room!

SteveHFC
19-01-2013, 09:20 PM
Maybe we should buy Harkins from Kilmarnock for £20000 :cb

Speedy
19-01-2013, 11:06 PM
No we don't. The loss in the accounts, in the main, was caused by non-cash items like Depreciation.

Per RP at the AGM... "we operate a break-even policy".

Not sure you can ignore depreciation as it was cash out the door at some point.

Caversham Green
20-01-2013, 09:46 AM
Not sure you can ignore depreciation as it was cash out the door at some point.

It's cash that went out the door in the past, so it's no burden on present or future finances - in Hibs' case it was spent when we were making profits so it's really a case of turning those profits into break-even over time. The only worry is if and when the assets need replacing, but as they are mainly land and buildings that are repaired and refurbished within the profit and loss function that's unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.

The Falcon
20-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Having read this thread I see a lot of reference's to Killie (and others) "living beyond their means" therefore their situation is entirely of their own making, and there appears little sympathy when this happens. Can one of the more astute accounts/businessy types explain the difference between "living beyond their means" and the suggestion touted many times on this board that, in order to become (more) successful there is a necessity to "speculate to accumulate" or "invest" ?

Or is that when speculate to accumulate/invest in the club doesnt go according to plan then it simply becomes living beyond their means ?

:confused:

Caversham Green
20-01-2013, 10:09 AM
Having read this thread I see a lot of reference's to Killie (and others) "living beyond their means" therefore their situation is entirely of their own making, and there appears little sympathy when this happens. Can one of the more astute accounts/businessy types explain the difference between "living beyond their means" and the suggestion touted many times on this board that, in order to become (more) successful there is a necessity to "speculate to accumulate" or "invest" ?

Or is that when speculate to accumulate/invest in the club doesnt go according to plan then it simply becomes living beyond their means ?

:confused:

They're all the same thing - it's 'speculate to accumulate' or 'invest' when Hibs fail to do it and 'living beyond their means' when other clubs try to do it and fail.

Realistically you can't speculate to accumulate in Scottish football because there's very little to accumulate. It's worth it if it works in the English Championship because the reward for promotion are huge but beyond that STA means living beyond your means.

greenginger
20-01-2013, 10:18 AM
It's cash that went out the door in the past, so it's no burden on present or future finances - in Hibs' case it was spent when we were making profits so it's really a case of turning those profits into break-even over time. The only worry is if and when the assets need replacing, but as they are mainly land and buildings that are repaired and refurbished within the profit and loss function that's unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.


Is it not paid through the club mortgages? We pay interest and part capital repayment every year as part of our break-even policy.

Mikey
20-01-2013, 10:23 AM
They're all the same thing - it's 'speculate to accumulate' or 'invest' when Hibs fail to do it and 'living beyond their means' when other clubs try to do it and fail.

Realistically you can't speculate to accumulate in Scottish football because there's very little to accumulate. It's worth it if it works in the English Championship because the reward for promotion are huge but beyond that STA means living beyond your means.

But everyone knows that when the club spends more than it earns they get more fans coming to the games and sell more pies.

Get with the script :greengrin

Caversham Green
20-01-2013, 10:38 AM
Is it not paid through the club mortgages? We pay interest and part capital repayment every year as part of our break-even policy.

Sort of, I was just explaining the depreciation part of the big picture. Over the term of the mortgages the club needs to make enough trading profits to pay off the capital element of the loans - the break-even policy was more accurately described as 'spending a pound less than we earn' a couple of years back. At that time the club had too much cash in the bank and that has been applied to the losses/capital repayments in recent years. We still had about £1m in the bank in July 2012, so we're still relatively healthy, but we're going backwards and the board now have to find a way turning that round.

Green Fish
20-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Killie's solution - release DVD with all Kenny Shiels gaffes and interviews, would make a mint!