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Russell The Dug
15-01-2013, 01:36 PM
Currently of Livi being watched by premiership sides paper saying hibs released him a couple of years ago?

Anyone watch him at hibs and know why he was released? Obviously the talent is there.

joebakerforever
15-01-2013, 01:46 PM
The regular Sportsound pundits have been raving about him and during their conversations, one of them, possibly Preston, mentioned the reason he was released by Hibs was because they considered him too small and not strong enough.

The_Sauz
15-01-2013, 01:47 PM
Never heard of him :confused:

Youth player with both us and the Pars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Scougall

.Sean.
15-01-2013, 01:50 PM
The regular Sportsound pundits have been raving about him and during their conversations, one of them, possibly Preston, mentioned the reason he was released by Hibs was because they considered him too small and not strong enough.

:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.

The_Horde
15-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Best player on the park in the Hearts Vs Livi game.

khib70
15-01-2013, 02:08 PM
:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.
This:top marks

hibs0666
15-01-2013, 02:21 PM
:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.

Lewis Stevenson is massive right enough. James Forrest was a stand-in for King Kong apparently. :wink:

Jpdhfc
15-01-2013, 02:22 PM
Son knows him left hibs because he was to small
Treated badly by a few Scottish club apparently won't
go to another Scottish club will head down south.

MWHIBBIES
15-01-2013, 02:23 PM
Saw him on Saturday at Livi vs Raith game, didn't think he was that great, he is pretty lightweight but was always looking to make a pass and never hid. Kevin McCann looked good though, nice to see him back playing. Booth was poor.

hfc rd
15-01-2013, 03:46 PM
:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.


Couldn't have put it any better Sean.

I remember when the lad broke into the Livi first team and John Collins was raving about him by saying he's the best young player in Scotland that he's ever worked with. Heard he was invited for a trial at Wigan and now Man Utd, Arsenal & Swansea had scouts at their game against Raith. I'd like to see him come to Hibs but I doubt he will after the way he was let go because he was too small?

Sylar
15-01-2013, 03:49 PM
He's an exceptional young talent and has really shone during his time at Livingston in the past few seasons.

It comes as no surprise that he's being watched from down south.

People also said Wesley Hoolahan, Graeme Dorrans, James McPake and Robert Snodgrass were also "lightweight" or "too small" when they were at Livingston and they all turned out quite fine young players!

steviehibsleith
15-01-2013, 04:03 PM
He had a interview soon after Collins went to livi and was raving about him.
Stated that he had been at hibs from 10 years old then at 16 was told by Hibs h was too small and wouldnt make it at the then Under 19s and was released.
Knew he had to beef up but was eating like a horse but problem was he was sh....ng like one as well lol sounds a good kid good luck too him

PeterboroHibee
15-01-2013, 04:15 PM
These sort of stories always come out, where a club released a player who was considered too small etc.

If the guy is genuinely as talented as is being made out, for the benefit of him hopefully playing for Scotland I hope he doesnt get snapped up by a big club. Some of the brightest young players we have had coming through in the last couple of years are now doing nothing with their careers, whereas if they had stayed in Scotland they would still be playing first team football with a better chance of making it when they finally moved (such as Fletch).

Russell The Dug
15-01-2013, 04:19 PM
Gutting he was released for being to short. Was that not the reason we got Brown from Rangers? Seems like it's a different approach from the coaches since JP left for Celtic. :rolleyes:

JimBHibees
15-01-2013, 04:39 PM
These sort of stories always come out, where a club released a player who was considered too small etc.

If the guy is genuinely as talented as is being made out, for the benefit of him hopefully playing for Scotland I hope he doesnt get snapped up by a big club. Some of the brightest young players we have had coming through in the last couple of years are now doing nothing with their careers, whereas if they had stayed in Scotland they would still be playing first team football with a better chance of making it when they finally moved (such as Fletch).

Great point it would make complete sense for the kid to be playing regularly rather than the Aberdeen kids playing for reserve teams or lower down south. The guy is obviously talented however he is still to really prove he can make it. Certainly hope he does as the more talented kids making it the better.

truehibernian
15-01-2013, 04:42 PM
The regular Sportsound pundits have been raving about him and during their conversations, one of them, possibly Preston, mentioned the reason he was released by Hibs was because they considered him too small and not strong enough.

Sorry to sound cynical but whenever Allan Preston highlights a young player on Open All Mics or Sportsound I'm straight away thinking he's his agent. He also has an attachment to Livi having managed and coached there.

Absolutely not doubting that the lad is rated, however already this season we've seen Erskine, Doolan, Clark, Carmichael, Cardle, Ryan Wallace, Sibbald, McGovern all rated highly and all seen as realistic (or indeed current) targets for Hibs.

Totally agree that coaching in Scotland is all wrong at juvenile level, however sometimes it's an attitude change that a youngster needs to succeed - too many seem to sign a pro-contract and think that's them made it - like any walk of life it requires hard work, commitment and a fair degree of sacrifice - quite difficult to embrace as a young man when you see all the 'distractions' your mates are getting into.

Livi however have a terrific youth set up and many young players in the SFA Academy structure are with them. They treated Gary Bollan very poorly in my opinion though.

Anyway, from what I'm hearing our three targets from that league are Taylor, Carmichael and Erskine - I'm intrigued that Erskine has been played 'lightly' in the last 3 games by Jackie Jnr - maybe I am reading too much into it. Strange though that he's been benched over the festive period - he's their best player. His focus elsewhere maybe ??

NORTHERNHIBBY
15-01-2013, 05:08 PM
:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.


But if that mentality is wrong, then Jamie McCluskey should still be a first pick for us, irrespective of the fact that his shadow could do him with a shoulder charge?

bingo70
15-01-2013, 05:30 PM
But if that mentality is wrong, then Jamie McCluskey should still be a first pick for us, irrespective of the fact that his shadow could do him with a shoulder charge?

Yup, I think in Scotland we get mixed up between someone not being strong enough and them being too small.

I dont think for a second we've released someone because they're too short but if they're not developing there strength then we're absolutely right to release them as that's an attribute you need to make it at a decent level.

To look at the other end of the footballing spectrum from us, take Barcelona, xavi, iniesta and messi are all short but they've clearly worked on using there strength as none of them get shoved off the ball easily, I don't know the guy in question for livi but I'd hazard a guess he was too reliant on his ability on the ball but sadly that's not enough to make it.

MWHIBBIES
15-01-2013, 05:36 PM
He's an exceptional young talent and has really shone during his time at Livingston in the past few seasons.

It comes as no surprise that he's being watched from down south.

People also said Wesley Hoolahan, Graeme Dorrans, James McPake and Robert Snodgrass were also "lightweight" or "too small" when they were at Livingston and they all turned out quite fine young players!Was just my opinion mate, I suppose it didnt help that Raith had little interest in playing football.

Sylar
15-01-2013, 06:20 PM
Was just my opinion mate, I suppose it didnt help that Raith had little interest in playing football.

Despite my replication of the word "lightweight", my post wasn't aimed at you sir :agree:

GreenArmy1875
15-01-2013, 06:32 PM
Played with him at the pars was only there maybe 6 months after being released with hibs looked a great talent then. Hope he keeps playing regularly at a club and maybe wigan would not be a bad move for him.

hibs0666
15-01-2013, 06:55 PM
Played with him at the pars was only there maybe 6 months after being released with hibs looked a great talent then. Hope he keeps playing regularly at a club and maybe wigan would not be a bad move for him.

If the guy is very weak and lightweight then he has no chance of establishing himself in the premiership.

PJ IronHIbee
15-01-2013, 07:46 PM
;3473582']Best player on the park in the Hearts Vs Livi game.

Great bounce that night! Wee Sparky who got the Livi goal that night was also released by us.
Both players would be great additions to our squad.
Wee Scougal was a standout at the Pars but they were cutting back their youth system and there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding the youth set up. Livi offered him a deal and snapped him up.
an opportunity missed me thinks
GGTTH

lord bunberry
15-01-2013, 08:36 PM
Yup, I think in Scotland we get mixed up between someone not being strong enough and them being too small.

I dont think for a second we've released someone because they're too short but if they're not developing there strength then we're absolutely right to release them as that's an attribute you need to make it at a decent level.

To look at the other end of the footballing spectrum from us, take Barcelona, xavi, iniesta and messi are all short but they've clearly worked on using there strength as none of them get shoved off the ball easily, I don't know the guy in question for livi but I'd hazard a guess he was too reliant on his ability on the ball but sadly that's not enough to make it.

But surely if the ability is there then the strength can be added later

Saorsa
15-01-2013, 08:38 PM
:agree:


That's my understanding. And that attitude encapsulates everything that's wrong with both the menatlity of Scotttish football and the game up here in general.:top marks

bingo70
15-01-2013, 09:13 PM
But surely if the ability is there then the strength can be added later

That's not what happens though, of the young players that make it say down south for example, they're coming through the systems athletic and strong, they don't come through as good players but not ready physically

Coco Bryce
16-01-2013, 08:43 AM
Currently of Livi being watched by premiership sides paper saying hibs released him a couple of years ago?

Anyone watch him at hibs and know why he was released? Obviously the talent is there.

When he was at Hibs he was a great little player, when it came to point the academy had to decide to offer him a contract or not Bill Hendrey didn't think he was good enough and was too small, some of the coaches were baffled by this but he has the final say.

stormchild
16-01-2013, 08:15 PM
Not for me I'm afraid. Watched a fair bit of Livi games last season, and while he was probably one of their better players nowhere near good enough for hibs. Goes missing in games and ball control let him down badly.

Tyler Durden
16-01-2013, 09:24 PM
He's an exceptional young talent and has really shone during his time at Livingston in the past few seasons.

It comes as no surprise that he's being watched from down south.

People also said Wesley Hoolahan, Graeme Dorrans, James McPake and Robert Snodgrass were also "lightweight" or "too small" when they were at Livingston and they all turned out quite fine young players!

Have you seen the boy play yourself then?

I don't recall people saying that about those players. The main criticism of Snodgrass was in relation to his personal life.

1987green
16-01-2013, 10:09 PM
Not for me I'm afraid. Watched a fair bit of Livi games last season, and while he was probably one of their better players nowhere near good enough for hibs. Goes missing in games and ball control let him down badly.




Here we go again Man U Wigan Swansea all looking at this guy but he ho he aint good enough for us :rolleyes:

I've seen the wee man play and imho he is one of the best players in that position in the last few seasons he is small and light weight but he has low centre of gravity and has the ability to roll tackles would love to see him in a hibs strip but aint going to happen any time soon :confused:

scoopyboy
16-01-2013, 10:18 PM
Here we go again Man U Wigan Swansea all looking at this guy but he ho he aint good enough for us :rolleyes:

I've seen the wee man play and imho he is one of the best players in that position in the last few seasons he is small and light weight but he has low centre of gravity and has the ability to roll tackles would love to see him in a hibs strip but aint going to happen any time soon :confused:

But are any of them going to sign him?

That will give us a better idea of how good he is. For all we know they might look at him and decide he is too small and lightweight.

Sylar
16-01-2013, 10:25 PM
Have you seen the boy play yourself then?

I don't recall people saying that about those players. The main criticism of Snodgrass was in relation to his personal life.

I've seen him playing around a dozen or so times in the past season and a half, aye :agree:

Did you really know much about or indeed follow any of these players before they reached notoriety before moving on from Livingston?

My dad and I held STs at Almondvale for a long period of time and were there until each of these players moved on from the club. Every single one of them were accused of being lightweight or too small (though the latter was mostly leveled at Hoolahan, who was also widely criticised for being far too one footed). McPake started off as a striker and was knocked off the ball far too easily. Same was also true of both Snodgrass (though the personal life did factor in later on in his career there) and Dorrans but both moved out on loan and bulked up a bit in the process.

Russell The Dug
16-01-2013, 10:29 PM
Have you seen the boy play yourself then?

I don't recall people saying that about those players. The main criticism of Snodgrass was in relation to his personal life.

Hoolihan was fantastic at Livi. Snodgrass was along with fletch the star of the Scotland side that made the Euro Final. Dorrans was always on the road to the top.

Extremely ignorant post mate.

greenlex
17-01-2013, 07:54 AM
McNulty from Livi might be worth a punt too.

truehibernian
17-01-2013, 08:27 AM
McNulty from Livi might be worth a punt too.

Hearts are tracking him as are a couple of Championship clubs - they also want Doolan from Partick - might be able to sign them in 2015 wages permitting :greengrin

PJ IronHIbee
17-01-2013, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by greenlex
McNulty from Livi might be worth a punt too.



Hearts are tracking him as are a couple of Championship clubs - they also want Doolan from Partick - might be able to sign them in 2015 wages permitting :greengrin

There is no chance of Sparky signing for that mob! Like Scougs, Marc was also released by Hibs.
Derby County attempted to sign Sparky at the end of the last transfer window after a successful trial. Livi moved the goalpost on more than one occasion when trying to negotiate a fee.

SMAXXA
17-01-2013, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by greenlex
McNulty from Livi might be worth a punt too.




There is no chance of Sparky signing for that mob! Like Scougs, Marc was also released by Hibs.
Derby County attempted to sign Sparky at the end of the last transfer window after a successful trial. Livi moved the goalpost on more than one occasion when trying to negotiate a fee.

There's only one Sparky everyone knows that

truehibernian
17-01-2013, 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by greenlex
McNulty from Livi might be worth a punt too.




There is no chance of Sparky signing for that mob! Like Scougs, Marc was also released by Hibs.
Derby County attempted to sign Sparky at the end of the last transfer window after a successful trial. Livi moved the goalpost on more than one occasion when trying to negotiate a fee.

Yep, I know that mate - but I do know that Hearts want him too. The same source that told me we were after Erskine told me Hearts were keen on Kris Doolan too. My Partick supporting mate says that the pair of them actually play very well together - rates Erskine more but says he is prone to drift in and out of games, but has more technical ability. Says Doolan's movement is terrific and he not only scores but creates space for the likes of Erskine.

There's no doubting Livi have a great youth set up these days and many parents are saying they look after them far far better than other clubs.

PJ IronHIbee
17-01-2013, 09:12 AM
There's only one Sparky everyone knows that
The two Sparkies would be dynamite!

Tyler Durden
17-01-2013, 01:38 PM
I've seen him playing around a dozen or so times in the past season and a half, aye :agree:

Did you really know much about or indeed follow any of these players before they reached notoriety before moving on from Livingston?

My dad and I held STs at Almondvale for a long period of time and were there until each of these players moved on from the club. Every single one of them were accused of being lightweight or too small (though the latter was mostly leveled at Hoolahan, who was also widely criticised for being far too one footed). McPake started off as a striker and was knocked off the ball far too easily. Same was also true of both Snodgrass (though the personal life did factor in later on in his career there) and Dorrans but both moved out on loan and bulked up a bit in the process.

Fair play - I've yet to see him play myself and it's difficult to cut through the hype based on the sort of coverage First Division games get in the written media.

Re those ex Livingston players, I followed them as much (as a Hibby) as any other promising players in the SPL at the time, mainly Dorrans and Snodgrass. Regarding the latter, there weren't exactly a queue of clubs looking to sign him before Gary McAllister I think took him to Leeds. The sort of player where in hindsight you wonder why SPL teams didn't make a move but at the time there was no great interest from the SPL. As far as I recall anyway.............

Tyler Durden
17-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Hoolihan was fantastic at Livi. Snodgrass was along with fletch the star of the Scotland side that made the Euro Final. Dorrans was always on the road to the top.

Extremely ignorant post mate.

Are you saying my post was ignorant?

In what sense is anything in your post relevant to the fact that I do not recall those players being criticised for being too smalll and/or lightweight?

Sylar
17-01-2013, 01:48 PM
Fair play - I've yet to see him play myself and it's difficult to cut through the hype based on the sort of coverage First Division games get in the written media.

Re those ex Livingston players, I followed them as much (as a Hibby) as any other promising players in the SPL at the time, mainly Dorrans and Snodgrass. Regarding the latter, there weren't exactly a queue of clubs looking to sign him before Gary McAllister I think took him to Leeds. The sort of player where in hindsight you wonder why SPL teams didn't make a move but at the time there was no great interest from the SPL. As far as I recall anyway.............

There was talk of Rangers sniffing around him before he moved to Leeds but he was certainly attracting interest.

This was the same Robert Snodgrass who was offered a trial at Barcelona and a move to Blackburn but turned both down, electing to stay within the Livingston youth system and develop his game before moving out to Stirling Albion and returning to Livingston a better player.